New BB Player housing arrangements

[Lennys Tap]

A kid choosing UW over MU is choosing UW over MU for something other than a dorm.  The styles are so different, the philosophies so different, the living arrangements do not mean a thing in the equation. 

Have some faith in your coach and his abilities. 

I have total faith in MY coach (your own words). What he has done thus far at Marquette is remarkable. I believe that on a level playing field he could hold his own against the heavyweights and recruit/coach circles around YOUR coaches (TC, Painter, Bo). The fact that you celebrate anything the administration can do to make his job more difficult cuts through the passive aggressive BS and makes it clear where you stand. I want no part of that place.

[BrewCity83]

I stand by my statement.  Seriously, if Diamond Stone picks Indiana over Marquette because red is his favorite color, TC can have him.  Who's to say his on-court decisions won't be as stupid?

"I didn't pass the ball to Davante, even though he was open under the basket, because he took the last jelly doughnut this morning at breakfast. Dude, he knows those are my favorite!"

But what if everything else is equal in the kid's mind?  Then ties can be broken by stuff that seems irrelevant to grownups, like the uniforms or the living arrangements.  We should have every advantage that we can think of.  You all remember when the current uniforms were unveiled?  I know there at least a few comments along the lines of "these will help in recruiting".  The little things do add up.

[MUBurrow]

A kid choosing UW over MU is choosing UW over MU for something other than a dorm.  The styles are so different, the philosophies so different, the living arrangements do not mean a thing in the equation.  

Have some faith in your coach and his abilities.  

I agree with the UW/MU styles, was just giving examples that when it comes to most schools, on paper they are very similar.

As for your sudden dramatic call to have faith in the coach and his abilities, thats a pure bullcrap argument and a red herring.  You could say that about anything. Why do we need the Al? Lets practice in the old gym and it shouldn't affect the team because I have faith in my coach. Why give him a huge budget? I have faith in my coach to find diamonds in the rough on the cheap. Saying that we should give him the fullest deck possible and help eliminate obstacles with recruits, no matter how minor to us, doesnt imply a lack of faith.

[warriorchick]

But what if everything else is equal in the kid's mind?  Then ties can be broken by stuff that seems irrelevant to grownups, like the uniforms or the living arrangements.  We should have every advantage that we can think of.  You all remember when the current uniforms were unveiled?  I know there at least a few comments along the lines of "these will help in recruiting".  The little things do add up.

Any kid who would think that any two basketball programs are completely equal except for uniform color is a moron.  Just sayin'.  I'd just as soon have a recruit choose Marquette because he lost to Biuzz in rock, paper, scissors.

[Lennys Tap]

Any kid who would think that any two basketball programs are completely equal except for uniform color is a moron.  Just sayin'.  I'd just as soon have a recruit choose Marquette because he lost to Biuzz in rock, paper, scissors.

Fair enough, but where a kid is going to live for 2 years is a slightly more important "little thing" than uniform color, aina?

[leever]

 For those saying this is a sign of less commitment by the administration, I don't view it as any less commitment at all.  More than anything, it forces some of these student athletes to be part of the student population, which is not a bad thing.  One of the common themes among the students is the behavior of some of the basketball players and the fact they are so isolated from the general student population that they are out of touch.  You can deny this all you want, but that theme permeates among many students and has come up a number of times in the last year with the various off the court incidents.  Pliarz and the administration are forcing these guys to be amongst their peers more than they were and this should not be considered as some kind of knock on commitment to the program.  It is pure common sense.  They are basketball players, they do have a higher visibility than other students, but they are still students and should be associating with them.  This is especially true when you see some of these kids that come through high school treated as idols and primmadonnas a little sense of reality isn't a bad thing.

Since this only impacts Freshman and Sophomores, Buzz can get a roster of 13 JUCO players then and it won't impact his team at all.

Hoopy -

I don't buy your "trust your coach argument at all", but I would be interested in your opinion on why this affects only freshman/sophomore basketball players.  Basketball players are "isolated" and "out of touch" as freshmen/sophomores, then we move them out of the general student population as juniors/seniors because by then they would be, what, "separate but equal" but not "isolated" or "out of touch"?  They need to hang out with the real students for two years before they are raised above?  Where is the line on special treatment for student athletes?

[warriorchick]

Fair enough, but where a kid is going to live for 2 years is a slightly more important "little thing" than uniform color, aina?

I agree. But I was responding to the folks who took issue with my statement that I wouldn't want a moron who chose a team based on uniform color.

[Blackhat]

Just don't room the players with pot head rich dorks from Brookfield with the $$ to pass around the blunts. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

For several years you guys have been saying that Buzz wants tough guys,

how long have you been here now?

<ducks>

[Hamostradamus]

how long have you been here now?
<ducks>

Hoop signed up just over a year ago. Must have been a lurker for a while before finally committing.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't know if this is a good idea or not.

I think it's positive to get the players more interaction with the "regular" students, but obviously the accommodations aren't as nice as Humphrey.

We'll see what happens. Players/posters might not realize it right away, but it might end up being a positive. Change is always scary.

One thing is for sure, this is just like Notre Dame, and I'll be watching you, Larry!

[Hoopaloop]

how long have you been here now?

<ducks>

We went over this in depth last week.  Visiting (lurking) for several years like my good friend Lenny and so many others before signing up.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32609.msg395382#msg395382

[Hoopaloop]

I have total faith in MY coach (your own words). What he has done thus far at Marquette is remarkable. I believe that on a level playing field he could hold his own against the heavyweights and recruit/coach circles around YOUR coaches (TC, Painter, Bo). The fact that you celebrate anything the administration can do to make his job more difficult cuts through the passive aggressive BS and makes it clear where you stand. I want no part of that place.

First off, Buzz is MY coach.  I'm merely not blinded to think he is the only one that can get it done and that seems to bother you.  TC did a great job here but if you dare say that you get slammed by a select group here that are children when acknowleding what he, KO, and others did for the program.

I'm sorry you want no part of that place, your alma mater, for choosing to put the school in a good light and demand some accountability by its coach and its athletes.  How dare they demand some personal accountability.  What are we coming to.

[Hoopaloop]

I agree with the UW/MU styles, was just giving examples that when it comes to most schools, on paper they are very similar.

As for your sudden dramatic call to have faith in the coach and his abilities, thats a pure bullcrap argument and a red herring.  You could say that about anything. Why do we need the Al? Lets practice in the old gym and it shouldn't affect the team because I have faith in my coach. Why give him a huge budget? I have faith in my coach to find diamonds in the rough on the cheap. Saying that we should give him the fullest deck possible and help eliminate obstacles with recruits, no matter how minor to us, doesnt imply a lack of faith.

It does imply a lack of faith.  You guys see things as a negative rather than an opportunity.  How is it that some of the top programs in this country are having student athlete living arrangements just like those proposed by MU?  How is it that MU in the middle of the frozen hell whole is able to be relevant?  How is it that a small, private school without football in a city and state that doesn't particularly care for us still do well?   Because we are good, because we have history and tradition, because we see opportunities when others see negativity.

I noticed no one answered the question that Buzz wants kids with a chip on their shoulder, ballers, guys used to taking the bus and somehow being forced to live in a dorm with regular students is going to derail his program.  I have complete faith in my coach that he will get this done. I have faith it can be done because it has at other universities.  There are too many doubters here and too many people latching on for any excuse they can.  Stop the negativity, MU will be fine.  Believe in your coach and it is ok to demand a bit more from our players that they represent the university better than they did the last year off the court.  That is what Pilarz, Williams and many alumni are demanding.  Good for them.  This is not a professional sports team, it is a university with a very good basketball program.  We should all remember that because it is clear that many posters here forget the student part or the fact they represent MARQUETTE UNIVERSITY.

[Hoopaloop]

Hoopy -

I don't buy your "trust your coach argument at all", but I would be interested in your opinion on why this affects only freshman/sophomore basketball players.  Basketball players are "isolated" and "out of touch" as freshmen/sophomores, then we move them out of the general student population as juniors/seniors because by then they would be, what, "separate but equal" but not "isolated" or "out of touch"?  They need to hang out with the real students for two years before they are raised above?  Where is the line on special treatment for student athletes?

Didn't the policy say only Freshmen and sophomores would have to live in the dorms?  There is a reason why MU forces freshmen, all freshmen, to live in residence halls.  There is a reason why a car is not allowed on campus as a freshman.  MU, and other universities, have learned long ago that the transition period from 12th grade to freshman is a big one and they need to be with their peers.  The out of touch comments are from the students themselves.  When you promote a behavior that you are a better class of person than your peers that is going to cause resentment with your peers.  Some of you will argue that they are a better class, or a special segment of the university.  They are special, because they are basketball players, but if you are going to go down the path of putting them on a pedestal then that works both ways.  When the blow that privilege and put the university in a bad light, there will be repercussions.   

We have student athletes from every other sport living in the dorms with regular students.  Other universities with high profile teams do the same, many universities do not.  It seems to be that Pilarz, Williams, the administration are trying something new to make sure the news MU basketball makes is on the court, not off the court.  Without MU player transgressions this past year, unlikely this is happening.  They forced the administration to look out for the university, which is what they should be doing.  Seems like a good compromise that has worked elsewhere while still allowing Buzz to recruit JUCO players, keep a fantastic budget, etc.  The idea may not work, but it may work as it has elsewhere.  Let us see how this plays out and actually give it some serious time to see what happens.  Will the basketball players become more in tune with the student population, will the regular students reciprocate?  Will things quiet down off the court?  Will recruiting be hurt or not impacted at all?  Let's see.

[drewm88]

I'd just as soon have a recruit choose Marquette because he lost to Biuzz in rock, paper, scissors.

Soon to go down in history as one of the great Buzz quotes:

"Crap. Jabari, how bout 2 outta 3?"

[Hamostradamus]

nt

[MUBurrow]

.

[leever]

   Without MU player transgressions this past year, unlikely this is happening.  They forced the administration to look out for the university, which is what they should be doing. 

Seems like a good compromise that has worked elsewhere while still allowing Buzz to recruit JUCO players, keep a fantastic budget, etc. 

So, the "player transgressions this past year" involved solely freshmen and sophomores?  Or do you think that the upper-class leadership of the team would have behaved better if they had lived in dorms for their freshman/sophomore years?  Or do the players just need to commit their "transgressions" with the general student population (rather than with their basketball playing peers) so that they will not be "isolated" and "out of touch"?

Do you seriously think this was a "compromise"?  Did Buzz sit down with Williams #2 and say "Well, if you make my freshman recruits live in a dorm,the only way I won't take the SMU job is if you let me recruit JUCOs and overpay for a really good assistant."?

Personally, I don't think this will have any impact on behavior.  There may be a few students who interact more with basketball players and find them to be less "out of touch".  In the whole scheme of things, I imagine that there are some Journalism majors who find some Engineering majors "isolated" and "out of touch".

[Sir Lawrence]

There is a reason why MU forces freshmen, all freshmen, to live in residence halls. 

That is not true.  Marquette still has a healthy number of commuters, including freshmen and sophomores.

The policy is:

All single first- and second-year students, regardless of academic classification, are required to live in residence halls.
Exceptions are made for students residing with a parent or legal guardian within a 30-mile radius of campus, students
who are at least 21 years of age or those who have been out of high school for two full years or longer.

[GGGG]

That is not true.  Marquette still has a healthy number of commuters, including freshmen and sophomores.

The policy is:

All single first- and second-year students, regardless of academic classification, are required to live in residence halls.
Exceptions are made for students residing with a parent or legal guardian within a 30-mile radius of campus, students
who are at least 21 years of age or those who have been out of high school for two full years or longer.

Maybe that's the reason Buzz is only recruiting Milwaukee County.  Wilson and Burton are going to live at home.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Got to know Michael Wilson and Terrell Schlundt because they lived in McCormick Fr year.  Made them real, they learned how to interact with the real world.  Can only help when you need to interact with the real world later in life (and most of them need to).

I will also bet that any Tower rooms for athletes will be upgraded.  Basketball players living in McCormick had 2 guys in a triple room.  At that time, it was a better deal than the reat of us received.

so much easier to smoke weed in a triple than a regular room.  especially the ones with the inner door.

[forgetful]

Didn't the policy say only Freshmen and sophomores would have to live in the dorms?  There is a reason why MU forces freshmen, all freshmen, to live in residence halls.  There is a reason why a car is not allowed on campus as a freshman.  MU, and other universities, have learned long ago that the transition period from 12th grade to freshman is a big one and they need to be with their peers.  The out of touch comments are from the students themselves.  When you promote a behavior that you are a better class of person than your peers that is going to cause resentment with your peers.  Some of you will argue that they are a better class, or a special segment of the university.  They are special, because they are basketball players, but if you are going to go down the path of putting them on a pedestal then that works both ways.  When the blow that privilege and put the university in a bad light, there will be repercussions.   

We have student athletes from every other sport living in the dorms with regular students.  Other universities with high profile teams do the same, many universities do not.  It seems to be that Pilarz, Williams, the administration are trying something new to make sure the news MU basketball makes is on the court, not off the court.  Without MU player transgressions this past year, unlikely this is happening.  They forced the administration to look out for the university, which is what they should be doing.  Seems like a good compromise that has worked elsewhere while still allowing Buzz to recruit JUCO players, keep a fantastic budget, etc.  The idea may not work, but it may work as it has elsewhere.  Let us see how this plays out and actually give it some serious time to see what happens.  Will the basketball players become more in tune with the student population, will the regular students reciprocate?  Will things quiet down off the court?  Will recruiting be hurt or not impacted at all?  Let's see.

Your right, we should prepare student for the real world, by showing them that all things in life are fair, and that they will all be treated equally when the graduate and enter the work force.

Putting freshman ball players in the dorms will have no effect on how other students view them.  It isn't going to stop the media from looking for ways to put them in a negative light and it isn't going to stop them from making stupid mistakes.

[strotty]

I admittedly haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone mentioned how, just because the freshmen and sophomores will be living in the dorms, it doesn't mean they won't be spending all their time with the team, whether it be on the court, in the lounge at the Al, or hanging out (even sleeping on a couch) in Humphrey?

EDIT: Read the thread, and I'm glad the conversation has gotten away from this having anything to do with repercussions from last year's incident. Move along.

Personally, I think it's a move that won't change anything...so I'd have to agree with those who don't care for the change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And "the closer to the Al" comments, I think the MU vans that pick the players up when they don't want to walk should work just fine from Humphrey to the Al.

[leever]

I admittedly haven't read this whole thread, but has anyone mentioned how, just because the freshmen and sophomores will be living in the dorms, it doesn't mean they won't be spending all their time with the team, whether it be on the court, in the lounge at the Al, or hanging out (even sleeping on a couch) in Humphrey?

EDIT: Read the thread, and I'm glad the conversation has gotten away from this having anything to do with repercussions from last year's incident,except for Hoopaloop who continues to insist that "Without MU player transgressions this past year, unlikely this is happening.".. Move along.

Personally, I think it's a move that won't change anything...so I'd have to agree with those who don't care for the change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And "the closer to the Al" comments, I think the MU vans that pick the players up when they don't want to walk should work just fine from Humphrey to the Al.

Strotty - made a small correction for you.