New BB Player housing arrangements

[Gato78]

Which explains why MU bought Hegarty Arms (and tore it down) and is now purportedly in the process of buying Catholic Knights.

[jsglow]

Not being an alum, you may not know that there is heavy political pressure if not a law to insure that Marquette does not acquire any more property in Milwaukee for its campus, thereby taking that property off the property tax rolls.  So any property purchased for new dorms would have to be held by a non-tax exempt entity controlled by MU.

Gato wins the speedy prize.  And Angelo's, etc.

[chapman]

http://www.housing.wisc.edu/lakeshore

This is where some of the Wisconsin athletes will be housed from what I've been told.

$47 Million.  MU will counter by moving its athletes into a decaying dump worth closer to $47.  Smooth move.  Perhaps they will get more out of the college experience living next to a pimple-faced 19 year old than if they had Lockett or Jamil next door.  I guess if schools where players are never in their room because the weather is perfect year round are doing it. 

[Blackhat]

Technically strict athletic dorms have been outlawed since 1996 by the NCAA as well as restrictions on contact with coaches.   In February at their meeting the NCAA started reconsidering those positions as it would be easier to set/enforce curfews, know where guys are and also more contact with coaches/dorm supervisors assigned to a lower population would benefit athletes.  I know Pilarz loves living among the general pop and LW had the same policy in college but they may want to go that route if the NCAA realizes it made a mistake.

I think mandating an adult to live a certain place is ridiculous to begin with but I don't think this policy is some deal breaker for recruits in 95% of cases.    I'm sure living around dorks will rein in our wild pack of athletes.


And ND's archaic policies on dorm life are used against them in recruiting for the big boy sports, most especially football.  Their success in secondary, olympic sports has to do with their academic appeal, number 1 business school, etc.

[forgetful]

A little off topic, but I find it funny that people complain about tuition increases, but then want the luxurious new dorms places like UW is building.

Going back to the non-air conditioned shoe boxes and having students rough it a bit (don't spoon feed them everything) would go along way to lowering tuitions.

As for MU athlete dorms.  It would be nice if the NCAA would get rid of the rule of no athlete only dorms.  The idea of a few rooms within/adjacent to the Al would be a nice recruiting tool.

[MUBurrow]

I don't think anyone who is against this idea has been pounding the ground screaming or been overly dramatic as much as some here are claiming. More just asking "why" and countering that the alleged benefits aren't worth the potential cost.

Quick related logic lesson: saying "no recruit has ever come here for Humphrey" is not the same as "recruits might not come here if its Carpenter vs Humphrey".  If the other two schools on recruits' lists have comfortable, air conditioned apartments - it might be a consideration. If MU still put them in Humphrey and they came here, its not necessarily because of Humphrey. Its because MU didn't lack a Humphrey-esque complex. Athletes that commit to MU might not do so for Humphrey, but athletes that commit to school x instead of MU might do so because of Carpenter.  I would venture that very few schools put their most profitable athletes in dorms without a/c.

[MUfan12]

I don't think anyone who is against this idea has been pounding the ground screaming or been overly dramatic as much as some here are claiming. More just asking "why" and countering that the alleged benefits aren't worth the potential cost.

Quick related logic lesson: saying "no recruit has ever come here for Humphrey" is not the same as "recruits might not come here if its Carpenter vs Humphrey".  If the other two schools on recruits' lists have comfortable, air conditioned apartments - it might be a consideration. If MU still put them in Humphrey and they came here, its not necessarily because of Humphrey. Its because MU didn't lack a Humphrey-esque complex. Athletes that commit to MU might not do so for Humphrey, but athletes that commit to school x instead of MU might do so because of Carpenter.  I would venture that very few schools put their most profitable athletes in dorms without a/c.

That's the MUscoop way, though.

[reinko]

A little off topic, but I find it funny that people complain about tuition increases, but then want the luxurious new dorms places like UW is building.

Going back to the non-air conditioned shoe boxes and having students rough it a bit (don't spoon feed them everything) would go along way to lowering tuitions.

As for MU athlete dorms.  It would be nice if the NCAA would get rid of the rule of no athlete only dorms.  The idea of a few rooms within/adjacent to the Al would be a nice recruiting tool.

No.

[GGGG]

At most schools, residence halls are funded by those who live in them.  I am 99 percent sure that the Lakefront Residence Hall at UW is debt financed by those who choose to live there.  Tuition money will not be used.  I bet MU treats it the same way.

[chren21]

I can't believe they actually did this.  Looks like I owe someone an apology.  I wonder if the scholastic advisory board is really next. 

[martyconlonontherun]

Maybe Buzz wants them closer to the AL and BC? 

[warriorchick]

Even though you can't have a dorm set aside for athletes, is there any rule that says athlete's rooms can't be nicer than the other rooms in the same dorm?

Maybe Marquette's plan is to spiff up those rooms in Carpenter - put in a/c units, renovate the bathrooms, maybe even take a wall out between two standard rooms and make it a big suite. Carpenter actually has pretty good "bones" - crown moulding in the rooms, lovely Art Deco architecture, etc.

Having said that, I think that for any student, the relative importance of the housing situation is more important at the beginning of the process than when it comes down to making the final decison.  When warriorchick, jr began researching colleges in high school, the thing she did when looking at  college's website was to check out pictures of the dorms.  Later, as she began to thinki about what was truly important in selecting a college, that stuff was secondary.  As another example, I ran into many students at Orientation preview this week that were completely bummed that they got assigned to Cobeen or O'Donnell instead of McCormick or Abbottsford.  I also saw a lot of groaning on the Class of 2016 Facebook page.  I did not hear of anyone wanting to transfer out because of it.

I tend to believe that most recruits will have formed their impression about Marquette's program well before they ever see a dorm room.  By that point, they have likely spoken to Buzz and the other coaches at length, seen the Al and the BC, and heard from the other players about how fortunate they feel to be part of that team.  If the message is properly conveyed, a recruit would be willing to sleep on a rolled-up towel in the locker room for the privilege of playing for us.

Think about it, fellas.  Can you really imagine a prospect saying this?:  "I really think that Buzz Williams is an amazing coach, and I have no doubt that he could help me reach my goals in terms of basketball.  I also truly believe I would get an outstanding education at Marquette.  And the Al - it is the most spectacular facility I have ever seen.  However, Bo Ryan has promised me a dorm room with a view of Lake Mendota.  And that, my friends, is why I have decided to become a Wisconsin Badger."

[Hamostradamus]

Think about it, fellas.  Can you really imagine a prospect saying this?:  "I really think that Buzz Williams is an amazing coach, and I have no doubt that he could help me reach my goals in terms of basketball.  I also truly believe I would get an outstanding education at Marquette.  And the Al - it is the most spectacular facility I have ever seen.  However, Bo Ryan has promised me a dorm room with a view of Lake Mendota.  And that, my friends, is why I have decided to become a Wisconsin Badger."

A prospect wouldn't say that. They would say, "I am excited to be a Badger, their facilities are the best I've seen." Hell, prospects pick schools based on jersey colors. http://mrsec.com/2011/07/uks-phillips-says-some-recruits-pick-schools-based-on-color-of-uniform/

[warriorchick]

A prospect wouldn't say that. They would say, "I am excited to be a Badger, their facilities are the best I've seen." Hell, prospects pick schools based on jersey colors. http://mrsec.com/2011/07/uks-phillips-says-some-recruits-pick-schools-based-on-color-of-uniform/

Sorry, I wouldn't a moron like that on our team,

[mu-rara]

I have reason to believe that the new housing situation was discussed even before LW was hired.  My sense is that there are multiple reasons behind the policy change one of which is getting to know your non hoops classmates just a bit more.

Got to know Michael Wilson and Terrell Schlundt because they lived in McCormick Fr year.  Made them real, they learned how to interact with the real world.  Can only help when you need to interact with the real world later in life (and most of them need to).

I will also bet that any Tower rooms for athletes will be upgraded.  Basketball players living in McCormick had 2 guys in a triple room.  At that time, it was a better deal than the reat of us received.

[Lennys Tap]

"All first-year UCLA student-athletes live on campus in the residence halls. The
number is still over 50% in year two."

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/ucla/genrel/auto_pdf/SAH_Section3.pdf

Explains UCLA's recruiting woes this year.
Oh, wait ....

USC freshmen also live in regular dorms. No wonder Pete Carroll couldn't land any players.

http://sportsbybrooks.com/usc-football-frosh-to-live-in-the-dorms-like-regular-kids-11822

Should I look for more examples?

You're seriously comparing the recruiting landscape at Marquette to UCLA or USC? If the Bruins promise to move out of Westwood and can guarantee at least 6 months of winter in southern California going forward I'd be happy to consider implementing their residence policies. Short of that, why throw away one of the few, small advantages Marquette has?

[Hards Alumni]

Even though you can't have a dorm set aside for athletes, is there any rule that says athlete's rooms can't be nicer than the other rooms in the same dorm?

Maybe Marquette's plan is to spiff up those rooms in Carpenter - put in a/c units, renovate the bathrooms, maybe even take a wall out between two standard rooms and make it a big suite. Carpenter actually has pretty good "bones" - crown moulding in the rooms, lovely Art Deco architecture, etc.

Having said that, I think that for any student, the relative importance of the housing situation is more important at the beginning of the process than when it comes down to making the final decison.  When warriorchick, jr began researching colleges in high school, the thing she did when looking at  college's website was to check out pictures of the dorms.  Later, as she began to thinki about what was truly important in selecting a college, that stuff was secondary.  As another example, I ran into many students at Orientation preview this week that were completely bummed that they got assigned to Cobeen or O'Donnell instead of McCormick or Abbottsford.  I also saw a lot of groaning on the Class of 2016 Facebook page.  I did not hear of anyone wanting to transfer out because of it.

I tend to believe that most recruits will have formed their impression about Marquette's program well before they ever see a dorm room.  By that point, they have likely spoken to Buzz and the other coaches at length, seen the Al and the BC, and heard from the other players about how fortunate they feel to be part of that team.  If the message is properly conveyed, a recruit would be willing to sleep on a rolled-up towel in the locker room for the privilege of playing for us.

Think about it, fellas.  Can you really imagine a prospect saying this?:  "I really think that Buzz Williams is an amazing coach, and I have no doubt that he could help me reach my goals in terms of basketball.  I also truly believe I would get an outstanding education at Marquette.  And the Al - it is the most spectacular facility I have ever seen.  However, Bo Ryan has promised me a dorm room with a view of Lake Mendota.  And that, my friends, is why I have decided to become a Wisconsin Badger."

When I toured MU I was told there was a Men's only dorm (OD) and a coed dorm (McCormick).

I hated both places, but grew to love OD when I moved in.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think anyone who is against this idea has been pounding the ground screaming or been overly dramatic as much as some here are claiming. More just asking "why" and countering that the alleged benefits aren't worth the potential cost.

Quick related logic lesson: saying "no recruit has ever come here for Humphrey" is not the same as "recruits might not come here if its Carpenter vs Humphrey".  If the other two schools on recruits' lists have comfortable, air conditioned apartments - it might be a consideration. If MU still put them in Humphrey and they came here, its not necessarily because of Humphrey. Its because MU didn't lack a Humphrey-esque complex. Athletes that commit to MU might not do so for Humphrey, but athletes that commit to school x instead of MU might do so because of Carpenter.  I would venture that very few schools put their most profitable athletes in dorms without a/c.

Very well said, Burrow. Recruits may not come here because of Humphrey. Or because of Todd Smith and the great strength training staff. Or because of the terrific academic support staff. Or because of the AL. Or because of any number of other reasons that the coaches can use to sell MU. But what's the compelling reason to eliminate one of your selling points and advantages over competitors? Why mess with happy?

[Hamostradamus]

Sorry, I wouldn't a moron like that on our team,

5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But the concept of "Our recruits don't care about X, and if they do, we don't want them anyway" is a step toward mediocrity (Badger posters are famous for this thought process. Duke, NC and Indiana will get the top shelf recruits regardless of dorms. We have to fight for every inch. If Diamond Stone of Kevon Looney factor Carpenter Hall in their decision-making, would we really say "Well, that proves they're shallow and wouldn't have been a good fit anyway"?

[MUBurrow]

Think about it, fellas.  Can you really imagine a prospect saying this?:  "I really think that Buzz Williams is an amazing coach, and I have no doubt that he could help me reach my goals in terms of basketball.  I also truly believe I would get an outstanding education at Marquette.  And the Al - it is the most spectacular facility I have ever seen.  However, Bo Ryan has promised me a dorm room with a view of Lake Mendota.  And that, my friends, is why I have decided to become a Wisconsin Badger."

I wish I could agree with this, but I think we underestimate not only the "variety" of considerations that lead recruits to a given school, but also how razor-thin that margin of commitment can be. A devotion like Juan Anderson is the exception, not the rule, and is why we took particular notice of his immediate MU love. Even a Midwestern recruit that wants to stay close to home and doesn't have offers from Indiana or Mich State might be choosing between MU, UW, ND, Minnesota etc etc. Kid would think that he would get a fantastic education at any of those places, all have good facilities, all have well known and respected coaches.  When calls are so close, normally minor considerations get magnified and tiebreakers become important.

[Lennys Tap]

5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But the concept of "Our recruits don't care about X, and if they do, we don't want them anyway" is a step toward mediocrity (Badger posters are famous for this thought process. Duke, NC and Indiana will get the top shelf recruits regardless of dorms. We have to fight for every inch. If Diamond Stone of Kevon Looney factor Carpenter Hall in their decision-making, would we really say "Well, that proves they're shallow and wouldn't have been a good fit anyway"?

I agree. Duke, UNC, etc., can afford that kind of arrogance. If MU wants to challenge the elites - not so much.

[Hoopaloop]

Double speak here again by the same guys that always do it.

For several years you guys have been saying that Buzz wants tough guys, those with a chip on their shoulder, those that didn't have anything and had to bus to games and have two cheeseburgers for their meal.  Similar to Al McGuire who didn't want players that had a lawn in their front yard, but kids from the streets.

Now all of a sudden we're going to lose these same guys Buzz wants and recruits best because they aren't pampered enough in a dorm?   Way to have it both ways again.  Which is it?


The arguments about what schools have athletic residences and which do not is ridiculous.  There are schools that have great athletic residence living conditions and do not have great basketball programs (Oklahoma anyone?).  There are those with no student athletic residences that also do just fine, one of them kicked our butts this year.  Of course there are examples on the other side as well where great student living arrangements and great teams and poor living arrangements and poor teams.  Find a school to fit the argument and it is there.


One final thought, the NCAA got rid of dedicated athletic dorms for a reason, it was absolutely out of control at schools like Oklahoma, down in the SEC and elsewhere.  They did revisit the decision this year and chose not to change it, probably because common sense prevailed.  For those saying this is a sign of less commitment by the administration, I don't view it as any less commitment at all.  More than anything, it forces some of these student athletes to be part of the student population, which is not a bad thing.  One of the common themes among the students is the behavior of some of the basketball players and the fact they are so isolated from the general student population that they are out of touch.  You can deny this all you want, but that theme permeates among many students and has come up a number of times in the last year with the various off the court incidents.  Pliarz and the administration are forcing these guys to be amongst their peers more than they were and this should not be considered as some kind of knock on commitment to the program.  It is pure common sense.  They are basketball players, they do have a higher visibility than other students, but they are still students and should be associating with them.  This is especially true when you see some of these kids that come through high school treated as idols and primmadonnas a little sense of reality isn't a bad thing.

Since this only impacts Freshman and Sophomores, Buzz can get a roster of 13 JUCO players then and it won't impact his team at all.


You guys continue to not believe in Buzz and his abilities to get players to play at Marquette.  You make it sound like we're putting these guys in a cardboard box and Wisconsin Ave and the poor old cold is going to get them.  Have some faith for once in your coach.  

[Hoopaloop]

I wish I could agree with this, but I think we underestimate not only the "variety" of considerations that lead recruits to a given school, but also how razor-thin that margin of commitment can be. A devotion like Juan Anderson is the exception, not the rule, and is why we took particular notice of his immediate MU love. Even a Midwestern recruit that wants to stay close to home and doesn't have offers from Indiana or Mich State might be choosing between MU, UW, ND, Minnesota etc etc. Kid would think that he would get a fantastic education at any of those places, all have good facilities, all have well known and respected coaches.  When calls are so close, normally minor considerations get magnified and tiebreakers become important.

A kid choosing UW over MU is choosing UW over MU for something other than a dorm.  The styles are so different, the philosophies so different, the living arrangements do not mean a thing in the equation. 

Have some faith in your coach and his abilities. 

[Pakuni]

You're seriously comparing the recruiting landscape at Marrquette to UCLA or USC? If the Bruins promise to move out of Westwood and can guarantee at least 6 months of winter in southern California going forward I'd be happy to consider implementing their residence policies. Short of that, why throw away one of the few, small advantages Marquette has?

Oh, geez. Are you reading imaginary posts?

I'm pointing out that, contrary to the claim of the poster to which I responded, Notre Dame is not the only major program that has athletes living amongst the apparent riff-raff and untouchables that make up the rest of the student body.

But since it all comes down to weather for you:

14. Don't student athletes have special dorms and food plans that are not available to other students?
There are no special dorms for student athletes at UConn. They are fully integrated into the array of dorms available at UConn.

http://web.uconn.edu/paac/faq.html


Interesting that some are so convinced Buzz is opposed to this. For all we know, this is Buzz's idea. But maybe he's sent some of you emails stating otherwise.

[warriorchick]

5 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But the concept of "Our recruits don't care about X, and if they do, we don't want them anyway" is a step toward mediocrity (Badger posters are famous for this thought process. Duke, NC and Indiana will get the top shelf recruits regardless of dorms. We have to fight for every inch. If Diamond Stone of Kevon Looney factor Carpenter Hall in their decision-making, would we really say "Well, that proves they're shallow and wouldn't have been a good fit anyway"?

I stand by my statement.  Seriously, if Diamond Stone picks Indiana over Marquette because red is his favorite color, TC can have him.  Who's to say his on-court decisions won't be as stupid?

"I didn't pass the ball to Davante, even though he was open under the basket, because he took the last jelly doughnut this morning at breakfast. Dude, he knows those are my favorite!"