The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[wildbill sb]

Don't falter, troopers, only 95 pages or so to go.

[DienerTime34]

The success or failure of the Marquette men's basketball team from year to year really has no bearing on my life, other than sheer entertainment value. As such, I like Buzz and I like winning, but I'm not willing to have a year-long seizure over the fate of Buzz or the program. Does that make me weird?

[mr.MUskie]

Don't falter, troopers, only 95 pages or so to go.

[NersEllenson]

Would love it if TJ or Hoop could answer the questions as to why they think all of a sudden the MU job would be such a highly coveted job among top caliber established coaches or even highly regarded young, mid-major coaches?  We just went through this 4 years ago when Crean left.  We had the stronger Big East, The Al McGuire Center, recent Final Four trip, D-Wade, a few consecutive NCAA appearances - yet Anthony Grant, Tony Bennett and Keno Davis all said "Thanks, but no thanks."  Why?  Couple this with MU currently having one of the most successful young coaches in the land - and if he leaves it will be due to an overbearing administration...who's going to want to sign up for that, that can actually hold his own in the recruiting world? 

TJ or Hoop - Do you feel that just by virtue of MU's past basketball legacy, the Marquette school name will make recruits want to come here...and the amazing academics will turn some of these kids into NBA caliber players?  Is the success of a program (and players development) not directly correlated to the coach who heads the program?  What in our past history makes you think we can hire (and retain) a home run coach??  Let's remember DiUlio pretty much ran off Kevin O'Neill...T.C chose to leave because he felt recruiting to MU would never give him a chance at a National Title...and now Buzz - he was on track to be a long term guy...yet it appears we have DiUlio 2.0 at the helm...

[warthog-driver]

Would love it if TJ or Hoop could answer the questions as to why they think all of a sudden the MU job would be such a highly coveted job among top caliber established coaches or even highly regarded young, mid-major coaches? 

We weren't contending for the services of Austin Grandstaff back then

[TJ]

Would love it if TJ or Hoop could answer the questions as to why they think all of a sudden the MU job would be such a highly coveted job among top caliber established coaches or even highly regarded young, mid-major coaches?  We just went through this 4 years ago when Crean left.  We had the stronger Big East, The Al McGuire Center, recent Final Four trip, D-Wade, a few consecutive NCAA appearances - yet Anthony Grant, Tony Bennett and Keno Davis all said "Thanks, but no thanks."  Why?  Couple this with MU currently having one of the most successful young coaches in the land - and if he leaves it will be due to an overbearing administration...who's going to want to sign up for that, that can actually hold his own in the recruiting world?

What questions should I have answered before this post?  I don't remember any of this being asked before now.  There are a ton of questions here though, so forgive me if I miss something...

1) MU job would not suddenly become an elite job that Shaka Smart and Brad Stevens would be fighting over.  We wouldn't get those two, just like we didn't get Grant, etc.  Might not get a few others in fact.  That doesn't mean they couldn't find a coach that could be successful at MU.
2) This just in, the last two coaches MU hired did not come from this route and both were highly successful over the last 12 years.  They were both assistants.  MU will probably hire another assistant the next time they hire a coach.  That also doesn't mean that they couldn't find a coach that could be successful at MU.
3) I don't know why Grant/Bennett/Davis said no or even if they said no honestly.  I do know that they gave Buzz an interview, he wowed the people in charge of making the decision and they hired him.  I was wary of the decision at the time, but it turns out that they were absolutely correct.  Lucky I have no say.
4) I don't think you can say with absolute certainty that if Buzz left it would be solely because of an overbearing administration.  I will grant that there seems to have been some strife in the halls of the Al, but he didn't leave so it can't be that bad.  I doubt Buzz is going to send a message to every mid-major coach the second he leaves to tell them how bad it was at Marquette.
5) I think you are vastly overstating the effect MU and Buzz parting ways would have on potential candidates.  Some might look at internal strife and shy away, but most would think that they could handle it.  And they might be right, given they they would have been hired by the current administration, which you keep pushing as a problem for Buzz and the admin now.  
6) I'm not saying the right guy will just fall in MU's lap or that MU couldn't make the wrong hire and end up suffering.  I am simply saying that your absolutely certainty that MU would find itself in the gutter under the next coach if Buzz were to leave is a flawed position.

TJ or Hoop - Do you feel that just by virtue of MU's past basketball legacy, the Marquette school name will make recruits want to come here...and the amazing academics will turn some of these kids into NBA caliber players?  Is the success of a program (and players development) not directly correlated to the coach who heads the program?

I feel these are stupid questions that have nothing to do with hiring a coach.  I certainly don't want to lose Buzz, luckily he's still here.  If he were to leave for any reason, MU would hire a new coach to do those things.  It is not a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be good at it.

What in our past history makes you think we can hire (and retain) a home run coach??

Not trying to get into an argument with Lenny/PRR/4ever here, but the fact that we did it the last two times we tried gives me some confidence.

Let's remember DiUlio pretty much ran off Kevin O'Neill...T.C chose to leave because he felt recruiting to MU would never give him a chance at a National Title...and now Buzz - he was on track to be a long term guy...yet it appears we have DiUlio 2.0 at the helm...

DiUlio is gone.  He is not making decisions at MU.  TC chose to leave for TC's own reasons, they have no bearing on Buzz or whoever is the next guy.  I am not willing to annoint the new administration DiUlio 2.0 because Larry Williams was quoted as saying something that Ners didn't like.  I'm sure they are highly qualified individuals.  They will do the best they can and you can rest assured that your fear that they set a goal of turning MU into SLU is not based in reality.

[warthog-driver]

Marquette would be able to get a great replacement if Buzz were to depart the pattern. Top program in a top conference stocked with talent? This ain't an SMU rebuilding gig.

[bilsu]

Marquette would be able to get a great replacement if Buzz were to depart the pattern. Top program in a top conference stocked with talent? This ain't an SMU rebuilding gig.

We could not get a named replacvement when Crean left.

[warthog-driver]

How can you argue with 20 elite cops and 30 floors of chaos? Can't believe I missed Kung Fu Hustle, though. I must have been deployed

[warthog-driver]

We could not get a named replacvement when Crean left.

We had Buzz!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

We could not get a named replacvement when Crean left.

Thank you! Add to that a new administration that seems intent on deemphasizing basketball, or at least reducing spending, and there's a headlight at the end of the tunnel.

They took our nickname. They took our bars. They hired lesbian deans. Why wouldn't they run Buzz off? They're arrogant eggheads!

[Goose]

Ners
You will never get firm answers to your legit questions. It is far easier to say you are wrong in your thoughts.

[TJ]

Ners
You will never get firm answers to your legit questions. It is far easier to say you are wrong in your thoughts.

What the hell was I typing for 35 minutes?  How about you guys tell us how you can be 100% sure MU would botch the next coaching hire and end up NIT bound for the foreseeable future?

[NersEllenson]

Ners
You will never get firm answers to your legit questions. It is far easier to say you are wrong in your thoughts.

What the hell was I typing for 35 minutes?  How about you guys tell us how you can be 100% sure MU would botch the next coaching hire and end up NIT bound for the foreseeable future?

Goose - I do feel TJ made some good points/counter arguments to my position...as I cannot say with 100% confidence MU will end up in the toilet if Buzz leaves.  My bigger issue is that we are even at this point.  The new admin walked into a situation with a freaking lottery ticket practically, and in 1-year's time they've just about ripped it up and put us in a position to where we could be in scramble mode to HOPEFULLY hire a competent replacement...and because of this very dynamic..I am not very bullish on their chances at success...

Larry Williams has nowhere near the skins on the wall Buzz Williams does...period.  Larry Williams might be a smart guy, but a smart guy wouldn't ridicule/rip his biggest asset in his department in the local paper.  At the end of the day, nobody is going to be lining up to hire Larry Williams...and damn near any school that has a basketball coaching vacancy would love to hire Buzz...thus Buzz is your bigger asset, and any school with any common sense should recognize and value its best assets.

[ATWizJr]

Here's what I am sure of: We currently have a great coach who has brought us to the brink of elite status.  So, unless the administration has made a decision to deemphasize BB, why run Buzz off so that we have to go through the process of finding a new Buzz?  We already have what we need.

[Bocephys]

Here's what I am sure of: We currently have a great coach who has brought us to the brink of elite status.  So, unless the administration has made a decision to deemphasize BB, why run Buzz off so that we have to go through the process of finding a new Buzz?  We already have what we need.

Seems like they're leaning that way from all of the rumors lately. Only time will tell for sure.

[TJ]

For Goose, because apparently my last set of answers wasn't good enough.  Answers in bold.

Would love it if TJ or Hoop could answer the questions as to why they think all of a sudden the MU job would be such a highly coveted job among top caliber established coaches or even highly regarded young, mid-major coaches?  I don't think it would.  I think we would probably hire an assistant, or at best a 2nd tier mid-major coach.  We just went through this 4 years ago when Crean left.  And we came out of it quite well, wouldn't you say?  We had the stronger Big East, The Al McGuire Center, recent Final Four trip, D-Wade, a few consecutive NCAA appearances - yet Anthony Grant, Tony Bennett and Keno Davis all said "Thanks, but no thanks."  Why?  Who knows?  Who cares?  They had their reasons.  Somehow MU still ended up with a great coach.  I think it would probably happen again, and it's not as big a deal as the media wants to make it if you reach for a couple stars and they say no.  There are many, many candidates out there.  Couple this with MU currently having one of the most successful young coaches in the land - and if he leaves it will be due to an overbearing administration...who's going to want to sign up for that, that can actually hold his own in the recruiting world?  I think you vastly overestimate the effect this would have.  It would deter some (Shaka would be out), but most would believe they could be the one to make it work.  Plus, for many it would be worth the trouble to get their shot.  Plus you cite the fact that Pliarz and LW didn't hire Buzz as one problem - that wouldn't be a problem for a new hire.

TJ or Hoop - Do you feel that just by virtue of MU's past basketball legacy, the Marquette school name will make recruits want to come here no...and the amazing academics will turn some of these kids into NBA caliber players absolutely no?   You do realize they would hire another coach, right?  One that had his own recruiting skills who players will want to play for.  Maybe different players, but how could you sit here today and with certainty say that they couldn't be any good?  Is the success of a program (and players development) not directly correlated to the coach who heads the program?  Yes.  Do you really believe that Buzz is the only person qualified to do these things?  What in our past history makes you think we can hire (and retain) a home run coach??  The fact that we did it the last two times we tried gives me some confidence.  If Buzz were to leave after four or five years, with all he's said and all the school has done for him, I won't believe we could retain any coach.  Let's remember DiUlio pretty much ran off Kevin O'Neill DiUlio is gone....T.C chose to leave because he felt recruiting to MU would never give him a chance at a National Title not relevant to this discussion....and now Buzz - he was on track to be a long term guy...yet it appears we have DiUlio 2.0 at the helm...I'm not willing to write off the current administration because they might fail.  Or because of hearsay about how they want to de-emphasize basketball even though all evidence over the last 10 years (granted - new regime) points to the contrary.

[TJ]

Goose - I do feel TJ made some good points/counter arguments to my position...as I cannot say with 100% confidence MU will end up in the toilet if Buzz leaves.  My bigger issue is that we are even at this point.  The new admin walked into a situation with a freaking lottery ticket practically, and in 1-year's time they've just about ripped it up and put us in a position to where we could be in scramble mode to HOPEFULLY hire a competent replacement...and because of this very dynamic..I am not very bullish on their chances at success...

Larry Williams has nowhere near the skins on the wall Buzz Williams does...period.  Larry Williams might be a smart guy, but a smart guy wouldn't ridicule/rip his biggest asset in his department in the local paper.  At the end of the day, nobody is going to be lining up to hire Larry Williams...and damn near any school that has a basketball coaching vacancy would love to hire Buzz...thus Buzz is your bigger asset, and any school with any common sense should recognize and value its best assets.

Thank you Ners.

[TJ]

Here's what I am sure of: We currently have a great coach who has brought us to the brink of elite status.  So, unless the administration has made a decision to deemphasize BB, why run Buzz off so that we have to go through the process of finding a new Buzz?  We already have what we need.

They didn't, so good job Admin!  I think everyone agrees that the status quo is the best possible outcome for years to come.

[wildbill sb]

I even be willing to buy Father Pilarz a "Chief Crowder" tee shirt.  Anybody know his size, as I am going to High 5 Tee Shirt Company in Chula Vista tomorrow to place orders.

Thanks,

wild bill

[Dawson Rental]

And you know this how that your letter writing campaign saved Buzz Williams from going to SMU?  Your 100% confidence comes from where?  It had nothing to do with grown adults sitting down, talking through what the goals of the program are, the issues that have put MU in the the spotlight for the wrong reasons, and finally getting to a point where everyone can collectively hold hands and move forward.

At some point, he is going to leave.  You do realize this, right?  

Of course he will.  Only Chicosbailbonds is forever!

[Dawson Rental]

In 31 years between Al and Buzz MU had 6 coaches. Buzz is superior to all of them, some by a country mile. I guess we might get "Crean lucky" or "O'Neil lucky" but it's a very, very longshot we'll get "Buzz lucky".

That is a subjective opinion.  Are you basing superior coach to NCAA tournament success?  Conference championships?  Regular season wins?  What you see with your eyes?  Graduation rates?  Kids staying out of trouble?  His use of timeouts?  

He is a really good coach.  Is he any better than some of the others we have had in those 31 years?  That is your opinion and nothing more.  

Lenny's opinion is subjective, and also true.

Is he any better than some of the others we have had in those 31 years?  That is your opinion and nothing more. 

I think it's obvious that Lenny's opinion is a more highly respected opinion on this board than your own which means that your opinion is something less.

[Henry Sugar]

Kung Fu Hustle is also worth checking out.  It's a legitimately funny kung fu movie that has reached cult status.  The whole movie is oddball, however, so it's not everyone's cup of team.

[Blackhat]

I've been pretty distant since the loss here. Can someone please explain, in two sentences or less, what the hell is going on here?

[Goose]

TJ
Apologies...very valid points.