The Everlasting Craptastical Mystery Thread

[madtownwarrior]

I see the circle jerk of Buzz almost went to SMU and the ensuing Marquette basketball Apocalypse continues...

speaking of apocalypse, did the predicted Marquette basketball Hiroshima happen yet?

[Hoopaloop]

Would love it if TJ or Hoop could answer the questions as to why they think all of a sudden the MU job would be such a highly coveted job among top caliber established coaches or even highly regarded young, mid-major coaches?  We just went through this 4 years ago when Crean left.  We had the stronger Big East, The Al McGuire Center, recent Final Four trip, D-Wade, a few consecutive NCAA appearances - yet Anthony Grant, Tony Bennett and Keno Davis all said "Thanks, but no thanks."  Why?  Couple this with MU currently having one of the most successful young coaches in the land - and if he leaves it will be due to an overbearing administration...who's going to want to sign up for that, that can actually hold his own in the recruiting world? 

TJ or Hoop - Do you feel that just by virtue of MU's past basketball legacy, the Marquette school name will make recruits want to come here...and the amazing academics will turn some of these kids into NBA caliber players?  Is the success of a program (and players development) not directly correlated to the coach who heads the program?  What in our past history makes you think we can hire (and retain) a home run coach??  Let's remember DiUlio pretty much ran off Kevin O'Neill...T.C chose to leave because he felt recruiting to MU would never give him a chance at a National Title...and now Buzz - he was on track to be a long term guy...yet it appears we have DiUlio 2.0 at the helm...

TJ did an excellent job of answering your question, most I agree with but will add a few of my own and correct some of your assertions.

KO ran himself off, not DiUlio.  He was a drunk who had some serious issues that put MU in a quandry if they ever got out.  He also publicly knocked the university.  Talk about a guy hitting his plateau, KO is a great example.  He did what needed to be done at MU but he couldn't get that Tennessee sweatshirt on fast enough.

Where do you get the idea Keno Davis was offered?

To answer your question, Marquette is an attractive job but like any coaching job there are going to be issues of timing, geography, etc.  Grant is from the south, he has since turned down Illinois and others.  He is staying in the south.  Bennett, his wife is from the south, did it have an impact?  He is from Wisconsin, perhaps he is more intrigued by the Wisconsin job than Marquette long term.  How long did Marquette try to get a coach last time?  Three days?

What is the fascination of obtaining a name coach?  If that was the case, your man crush Buzz Williams wouldn't be here.  The greatest coach in 31 years of Marquette basketball wouldn't be roaming the sidelines.

Marquette has the history, the money, the leadership to grab a good coach.  They have a small, but vocal fan base that has enough pull to make life miserable for the administration if they were to somehow tank the program. How many people here said the NC State hire last year was a bad hire.  Yet they went to the Sweet 16 and are a top 15 program going into next year.  How many people here said Crean would be fired by IU by now?  Yet there they are, probably #1 in the country to start the season.  How many people four years ago said Chris Lowery should be a candidate?  On the other end of the spectrum, some mentioned John Groce back then who is now at Illinois.  Maybe they were right.  No one can predict the future.

You will forgive me if I don't get too excited about the opinions, especially Lenny's highly respected one (that's for you Little Murs), that so often do not come true.  These are message boards filled with emotional baggage and spaghetti against the walls.  We are fans, but we are not in the trenches hiring and firing basketball coaches.  MU has done pretty well in that regard

Maybe the best way to look at it Ners.  MU is batting 1.000 in the last 12 years of coaches.  When MU decided again to make a serious play at basketball, they hired Tom Crean.  Then they hired Buzz Williams.  Smart people making smart decisions. 

Now a few questions for you.

Where is your evidence, true evidence, that the university is looking to tank the program or bring it back to the Mike Deane era?  Before you answer that, remember that Mike Deane did some of the tanking himself based on how he recruited.  A better recruiter at that point of time would have done better for the program.

Secondly, do you believe Buzz should be able to do whatever he wants?  Do you acknowledge the role of an AD and a President and their position to run an athletic department and university?  Do you acknowledge that just because YOU think the off court issues are minor that a number of powerful alumni and administrators do not?

[Hoopaloop]

Thank you! Add to that a new administration that seems intent on deemphasizing basketball, or at least reducing spending, and there's a headlight at the end of the tunnel.

They took our nickname. They took our bars. They hired lesbian deans. Why wouldn't they run Buzz off? They're arrogant eggheads!

Proof that MU is deemphasizing basketball?  Is this the same proof you had that Crean came up with Gold when it was proven that a marketing agency run by a member of the BOT did.  So you got burned on that one and you're doubling down on this one.

Lesbian deans?  Why are your homophobic statements continuing?  Multiple times you have made comments that are demeaning in that are and you have done this consistently in the last few months.  Grow up.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30778.msg360780#msg360780

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27459.msg314294#msg314294

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27180.msg309242#msg309242

It's 2012.

[Lennys Tap]

You will forgive me if I don't get too excited about the opinions, especially Lenny's highly respected one (that's for you Little Murs), that so often do not come true. 

Opinions don't "come true". You're confusing them with predictions.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Proof that MU is deemphasizing basketball?  Is this the same proof you had that Crean came up with Gold when it was proven that a marketing agency run by a member of the BOT did.  So you got burned on that one and you're doubling down on this one.

Lesbian deans?  Why are your homophobic statements continuing?  Multiple times you have made comments that are demeaning in that are and you have done this consistently in the last few months.  Grow up.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=30778.msg360780#msg360780

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27459.msg314294#msg314294

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27180.msg309242#msg309242

It's 2012.

A. When was it "proven" that Crean didn't come up with Gold? The PR agency ( not marketing as you say) company run by the BOT member was trying to sell it. They didn't come up with it.
B. Great job on searching my posting history. Of course pointing out that Crocs, Segway tours and the Spanish O'Donnell's are best enjoyed by the most flamboyant among us certainly doesn't make anybody a homophobe, just a realist.

[Freeport Warrior]

The PR agency ( not marketing as you say) company run by the BOT member

Go to your corners, gentlemen. Zizzo Group -- run by BOT member Anne Zizzo is "PR + Marketing" as listed on their letterhead.

[Hoopaloop]

A. When was it "proven" that Crean didn't come up with Gold? The PR agency ( not marketing as you say) company run by the BOT member was trying to sell it. They didn't come up with it.
B. Great job on searching my posting history. Of course pointing out that Crocs, Segway tours and the Spanish O'Donnell's are best enjoyed by the most flamboyant among us certainly doesn't make anybody a homophobe, just a realist.

Zizzo is a marketing and PR firm, so they are a marketing firm exactly as I say.

They came up with the Gold.  Again, you have been proven wrong.

"But would Marquette remain the Golden Eagles, or something entirely new? Board member Ann Zizzo, of the Zizzo Group, and her team landed on the "Gold". The Marquette Gold. Really? But then again, the Zizzo Group also suggested we name the 27th Street Corridor "Boomgard"."


http://www.jenders.com/2009/07/29/marquette-warriors-logo/

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2005/05/marquettes-trustee-losers.html



So now, where is your proof that the administration is trying to tank the program?  Where is it?


I have a family member that is part of the LGBT community. I noticed you using the term 6 months and said nothing.  You used it again recently twice.  We're in 2012.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I have a family member that is part of the LGBT community. I noticed you using the term 6 months and said nothing.  You used it again recently twice.  We're in 2012.

Why don't you just take your own sage advice and just ignore it?

[Lennys Tap]

Hoop,
You have been a big defender of the BOT, going so far as to defend them against claims of stupidity and mean spiritedness that you imagined people here have made. Then you post a link reminding us that the BOT voted UNANIMOUSLY to a) kill any chance of a return to the beloved Warriors nickname, b) drop the Golden Eagles c) turn us into the GOLD. While not accusing any idividual member of having a low IQ, your link proves beyond a doubt that as a group they are capable of making decisions (and unanimous ones at that) that define stupid.  

[nathanziarek]

Why don't you just take your own sage advice and just ignore it?

Yeah. For forever. Anytime you see an injustice or ignorance raise its ugly head, run. Turn the other cheek. Always. It's what Jesus wanted.

[nathanziarek]

Hoop,
You have been a big defender of the BOT, going so far as to defend them against claims of stupidity and mean spiritedness that you imagined people here have made. Then you post a link reminging us that the BOT voted UNANIMOUSLY to a) kill any chance of a return to the beloved Warriors nickname, b) drop the Golden Eagles c) turn us into the GOLD. While not accusing any idividual member of having a low IQ, your link proves beyond a doubt that as a group they are capable of making decisions (and unanimous ones at that) that define stupid.  

Am I the only one on this board that didn't mind Gold? There are very few non-stupid team names out there. Jayhawks? Sooners? The decision to move away from Warriors is ancient history now. I know those damn liberals are ruining everything you love, but, maybe it's time to move on? Do we really even use "Golden Eagles" any more? Aren't we just "Marquette"?

[MerrittsMustache]

Am I the only one on this board that didn't mind Gold? There are very few non-stupid team names out there. Jayhawks? Sooners? The decision to move away from Warriors is ancient history now. I know those damn liberals are ruining everything you love, but, maybe it's time to move on? Do we really even use "Golden Eagles" any more? Aren't we just "Marquette"?

The only thing worse than "Gold" was the idea that Marquette shouldn't have a nickname at all and just be Marquette.

[Sir Lawrence]

Am I the only one on this board that didn't mind Gold? There are very few non-stupid team names out there. Jayhawks? Sooners? The decision to move away from Warriors is ancient history now. I know those damn liberals are ruining everything you love, but, maybe it's time to move on? Do we really even use "Golden Eagles" any more? Aren't we just "Marquette"?

I always thought that the "Jacques" would be a cool nickname for Marquette.

[TJ]

The only thing worse than "Gold" was the idea that Marquette shouldn't have a nickname at all and just be Marquette.

I don't know, I kinda think no nickname is better than "Gold".  I think my typo "Golf" might be better than "Gold".  The Marquette Golf.  Still better than "Gold".

[Bocephys]

I don't know, I kinda think no nickname is better than "Gold".  I think my typo "Golf" might be better than "Gold".  The Marquette Golf.  Still better than "Gold".

If only they would have seriously considered the Jumpin' Jesuits.  That would have been unique.

[Dr. Blackheart]

An oldie but goodie

[Lennys Tap]

Am I the only one on this board that didn't mind Gold?

The BOT voted 30-0 for Gold. I bet you wouldn't find 30 votes for it on this entire board (out of what? 1000?). Of course, the BOT is far wiser than the great unwashed at Scoop - I know this because Hoop tells me so.

[Spotcheck Billy]

it could be worse, at least we're not the 'Orange"

[JakeBarnes]

I mean, this is a Jesuit institution, can't we use a little Old Testament? How about the "Hand of God."  I'd love to see the commentators: "The Hand of God just crushed West Virginia tonight..."  "The Hand of God was unstoppable from downtown tonight..."

[nathanziarek]

The BOT voted 30-0 for Gold. I bet you wouldn't find 30 votes for it on this entire board (out of what? 1000?). Of course, the BOT is far wiser than the great unwashed at Scoop - I know this because Hoop tells me so.

Well...I guess that puts me in not bad company then. I didn't love Gold anymore than I love Golden Eagles or Warriors. I believe in the power of words and branding, but none of those are really sticky or original.

I dont know. I'm clearly a minority opinion here.

[warthog-driver]

TJ did an excellent job of answering your question, most I agree with but will add a few of my own and correct some of your assertions.

KO ran himself off, not DiUlio.  He was a drunk who had some serious issues that put MU in a quandry if they ever got out.  He also publicly knocked the university.  Talk about a guy hitting his plateau, KO is a great example.  He did what needed to be done at MU but he couldn't get that Tennessee sweatshirt on fast enough.

Where do you get the idea Keno Davis was offered?

To answer your question, Marquette is an attractive job but like any coaching job there are going to be issues of timing, geography, etc.  Grant is from the south, he has since turned down Illinois and others.  He is staying in the south.  Bennett, his wife is from the south, did it have an impact?  He is from Wisconsin, perhaps he is more intrigued by the Wisconsin job than Marquette long term.  How long did Marquette try to get a coach last time?  Three days?

What is the fascination of obtaining a name coach?  If that was the case, your man crush Buzz Williams wouldn't be here.  The greatest coach in 31 years of Marquette basketball wouldn't be roaming the sidelines.

Marquette has the history, the money, the leadership to grab a good coach.  They have a small, but vocal fan base that has enough pull to make life miserable for the administration if they were to somehow tank the program. How many people here said the NC State hire last year was a bad hire.  Yet they went to the Sweet 16 and are a top 15 program going into next year.  How many people here said Crean would be fired by IU by now?  Yet there they are, probably #1 in the country to start the season.  How many people four years ago said Chris Lowery should be a candidate?  On the other end of the spectrum, some mentioned John Groce back then who is now at Illinois.  Maybe they were right.  No one can predict the future.

You will forgive me if I don't get too excited about the opinions, especially Lenny's highly respected one (that's for you Little Murs), that so often do not come true.  These are message boards filled with emotional baggage and spaghetti against the walls.  We are fans, but we are not in the trenches hiring and firing basketball coaches.  MU has done pretty well in that regard

Maybe the best way to look at it Ners.  MU is batting 1.000 in the last 12 years of coaches.  When MU decided again to make a serious play at basketball, they hired Tom Crean.  Then they hired Buzz Williams.  Smart people making smart decisions. 

Now a few questions for you.

Where is your evidence, true evidence, that the university is looking to tank the program or bring it back to the Mike Deane era?  Before you answer that, remember that Mike Deane did some of the tanking himself based on how he recruited.  A better recruiter at that point of time would have done better for the program.

Secondly, do you believe Buzz should be able to do whatever he wants?  Do you acknowledge the role of an AD and a President and their position to run an athletic department and university?  Do you acknowledge that just because YOU think the off court issues are minor that a number of powerful alumni and administrators do not?

You certainly learned well, Hoop, from the Master - The Bail Bondsman. You absorbed his knowledge and rhetorical style in that now famous Backyard Summit. Your posts reflect his style and sense of morbid outrage. The Bail Bondsman must be proud, Grasshopper.

[warthog-driver]

B. Great job on searching my posting history. Of course pointing out that Crocs, Segway tours and the Spanish O'Donnell's are best enjoyed by the most flamboyant among us certainly doesn't make anybody a homophobe, just a realist.

Beautifully stated.

[warthog-driver]

I mean, this is a Jesuit institution, can't we use a little Old Testament? How about the "Hand of God."  I'd love to see the commentators: "The Hand of God just crushed West Virginia tonight..."  "The Hand of God was unstoppable from downtown tonight..."

This is good. I actually laughed out loud. But a suggestion: why not "The Wrath of God?"

The Wrath of God smote the Louisville Cardinals tonight...

The Wrath of God obtained revenge for their defeat last week at Villanova...

On account of these The Wrath of God travels to The Garden...

[4everwarriors]

I always thought that the "Jacques" would be a cool nickname for Marquette.

I'm down with that for the lady's teams.

[warthog-driver]

I always thought that the "Jacques" would be a cool nickname for Marquette.

How about "The Straps?"