Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[BrewCity83]

We also have the fact that Ryan Braun tested positive for a banned substance.

However, we do not know for a fact that the sample tested did actually come from Braun or that it was not tampered with.

[🏀]

However, we do not know for a fact that the sample tested did actually come from Braun or that it was not tampered with.

Except that the testing agency said the sample had not been compromised or tampered with.

[🏀]

wades, you need to drop the Cubs thing.

Let me reiterate that I am glad he got off. I would instantly be losing two very high dollar fantasy baseball leagues if Braun's suspension stuck. I like Ryan Braun as a player, I have no problem with removing the team from the player.

[StillAWarrior]

No kidding.  The independent arbitrator didn't decide to overturn Braun's suspension because everything was done correctly.  We can sit here and argue whether Braun juiced or whether the sample was tampered, whether the sample was his, or whether Braun simply got off on a technicality, but you're grasping at air if you say the collector followed the correct protocol.  He didn't.  That is the only fact that we have about this case.  The chain of custody was broken by the collector and that is why Braun's 50 game suspension was overturned.  That is the only fact that is out there for the public.  If it wasn't, there would be absolutely no possible way to have overturned the suspension.  Unless you think the science is messed up and everyone who has spoken is just lying and saying it was chain of custody when it was the science, which Cubs fans here have made fairly clear they don't think the science was messed up.

By saying the proper protocol was followed, you are admitting there is way more to the story than the 44 hour period the sample was undocumented.  Otherwise why will Ryan Braun be playing on Opening Day?

I'm very curious to read the arbitrator's decision.  With my luck, it will probably be the  only thing in this entire case that is not leaked.

I just read the relevant portions of the MLB joint testing agreement.  There are a couple of portions that, based upon what is being widely reported (which might or might not be correct), appear relevant.

First, it provides that "if the specimen is not immediately prepared for shipping, the Collector shall ensure that it is appropriately safeguarded during temporary storage.  (1) the Collector must keep the chain of custody intact.  (2) The Collector must store the samples in a cool and secure location."  A couple thoughts.  First, this isn't very specific.  Second, the term "chain of custody" is not defined in the agreement.  I'm not aware of anything in this case that would necessarily suggest that the Collector broke the chain of custody -- but that's not to say that there might not be something there.  Clearly the agreement contemplates that the Collector could hold the sample for "temporary storage" and that this would not necessarily break the chain of custody.  I think the definition of "secure location" might be an issue.

Second, the agreement says that "when all the specimens have been collected at a collection site, the Collector shall take the specimens in the appropriate packing to a FedEx Customer Service Center for shipment.  The specimens cannot be placed in a FedEx Drop Box location."  There is nothing in the agreement that specifically addresses the question of whether the specimen should/can be left at a FedEx location if the last shipment on Saturday has already been sent.  However, there is a provision that states if it is being sent on a Friday, the Collector should request Saturday delivery.  It is my understanding that the procedure cited by the Collector that the sample should be taken home is a procedure from the testing laboratory, not from the MLB Joint Testing Agreement.

Based upon media reports, it does appear that Braun won his grievance because of something wrong with the procedures that were followed by the Collector.  We just don't know exactly what it was yet.

[StillAWarrior]

 

You're missing the point about why they need to be taken to FedEx as soon as possible.  Even though Braun's name does not appear on the sample, the collector knows whose sample he has.  Once the samples are dropped off at FedEx, the samples are only identified by a number or code, so nobody would be tempted to tamper with them (since they don't know whose they are).  When they are sitting in the collector's house for 48 hours, the collector and his son, and whoever they choose to share that information with, could have access to the sample knowing whose samples they are.

I think that this is a fair point, and Braun mentioned it in his press conference.  Frankly, I think Braun would have done better to focus on this, than on the fact that once at the lab the sample is treated like "a nuclear weapon" with careful documentation of who enters the room and whatnot.  Remember, Braun is the one who is advocating that the Collector should have dropped the sample off at a FedEx location where any number of people would have had access to his sample with no documentation whatsoever (although at least it would have been anonymous). 

My biggest problem with Braun in all of this is that he's publicly thrown the Collector under the bus without offering even a shred of evidence that he did anything "wrong"  aside from apparently following his employer's policies for shipment and temporary storage of samples (which might have been inconsistent with MLB's policies).  Braun gets up there and talks about how awful it is to have someone question his integrity publicly, and then does the same thing to the Collector.  I think less would have been more in Braun's press conference.

[Spotcheck Billy]

2) When it came to the collect dropping the samples off at FedEx, Braun said, "There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at".  He failed to mention in his press conference that all of these locations had stopped delievery at 5:00 when his test was taken.

I think you're missing that there is a difference between "stopped delivery" and "stopped accepting shipments". FedEx wouldn't be open until 9pm if they weren't accepting shipment.

BTW the FedEx Office on Bluemound Rd in Brookfield is one that is open 24 hours.

[StillAWarrior]

I think you're missing that there is a difference between "stopped delivery" and "stopped accepting shipments for delivery". FedEx wouldn't be open until 9pm if they weren't accepting shipment.

BTW the FedEx Office on Bluemound Rd in Brookfield is one that is open 24 hours.

This distinction is, I think, the source of some of the confusion.  Clearly there were offices open that were accepting shipments for delivery.  But, the Collector has stated that it was his employer's policy that if they weren't shipping that day the packages should be stored at the collector's home rather than being left at FedEx.  I didn't see anything in the MLB Joint Testing Agreement addressing this issue.  It's not clear whether this was the basis for the arbitrator's decision.

[TallTitan34]

Why can the guy be trusted for an hour or two with the sample but he can't be trusted for 44 hours?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

You don't have to believe me. I couldn't care less. That doesn't change the fact that the best player on your favorite team is a cheater.

Right... as opposed to your favorite team, which is an institution of cheaters?

[BrewCity83]

Why can the guy be trusted for an hour or two with the sample but he can't be trusted for 44 hours?

Many more chances for other people to get their hands on it.  In an hour or two, the guy can actually physically have custody of the sample for the entire time.  In 44 hours, he puts it down and goes out of the house, goes to another room to sleep, etc., leaving the door open for someone to mess with it, possibly without him even knowing.

[LAZER]

There are obviously a lot of details to be disputed on this case which have all been liad out here, but for me personally it simply comes down to which is more likely: A) A collector brings home a sample with him and adds some form of testosterone to the sample and in the process prevents any signs of tampering. B) A major league baseball star with a clean history tested positive for steroids.

[TallTitan34]

Right... as opposed to your favorite team, which is an institution of cheaters?

Mike Cameron
Derrick Turnbow
Eric Gagne
Ryan Braun

See the thing is, I could make a list of pretty much every MLB team proving them to be "an institution of cheaters".

[BrewCity83]

Great argument, except:

Mike Cameron - did not cheat as a Brewer
Derrick Turnbow - did not cheat as a Brewer
Eric Gagne - did not cheat as a Brewer
Ryan Braun - did not cheat

[LAZER]

Great argument, except:

Mike Cameron - did not cheat as a Brewer
Derrick Turnbow - did not cheat as a Brewer
Eric Gagne - did not cheat as a Brewer
Ryan Braun - did not cheat

C'mon seriously?  Braun is as innocent as Sosa, Bonds, and Clemens

[Hards Alumni]

I'm very curious to read the arbitrator's decision.  With my luck, it will probably be the  only thing in this entire case that is not leaked.

I just read the relevant portions of the MLB joint testing agreement.  There are a couple of portions that, based upon what is being widely reported (which might or might not be correct), appear relevant.

First, it provides that "if the specimen is not immediately prepared for shipping, the Collector shall ensure that it is appropriately safeguarded during temporary storage.  (1) the Collector must keep the chain of custody intact.  (2) The Collector must store the samples in a cool and secure location."  A couple thoughts.  First, this isn't very specific.  Second, the term "chain of custody" is not defined in the agreement.  I'm not aware of anything in this case that would necessarily suggest that the Collector broke the chain of custody -- but that's not to say that there might not be something there.  Clearly the agreement contemplates that the Collector could hold the sample for "temporary storage" and that this would not necessarily break the chain of custody.  I think the definition of "secure location" might be an issue.

Second, the agreement says that "when all the specimens have been collected at a collection site, the Collector shall take the specimens in the appropriate packing to a FedEx Customer Service Center for shipment.  The specimens cannot be placed in a FedEx Drop Box location."  There is nothing in the agreement that specifically addresses the question of whether the specimen should/can be left at a FedEx location if the last shipment on Saturday has already been sent.  However, there is a provision that states if it is being sent on a Friday, the Collector should request Saturday delivery.  It is my understanding that the procedure cited by the Collector that the sample should be taken home is a procedure from the testing laboratory, not from the MLB Joint Testing Agreement.

Based upon media reports, it does appear that Braun won his grievance because of something wrong with the procedures that were followed by the Collector.  We just don't know exactly what it was yet.

I'm glad someone could be reasonable with their analysis.  Well said.  The bolded secotion is probably what got the suspension overturned.  A fridge in a basement can not be called a 'secure location', especially for 44 hours.  Think of it this way:  Would you feel comfortable storing $5 million dollars in someone's basement fridge?  I know I wouldn't.

Now imagine that you are storing someone's career in a fridge.

[TallTitan34]

Great argument, except:

Ryan Braun - did not cheat

Haha, either did Sammy.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I wonder what MLB pays the collector/sub contractors?

he stated he's done this over 600 times - I could use some good part time $$$ and the job requirements don't sound too difficult and there is likely an opening in this market after this cluster****   

[StillAWarrior]

I'm glad someone could be reasonable with their analysis.  Well said.  The bolded secotion is probably what got the suspension overturned.  A fridge in a basement can not be called a 'secure location', especially for 44 hours.  Think of it this way:  Would you feel comfortable storing $5 million dollars in someone's basement fridge?  I know I wouldn't.

Now imagine that you are storing someone's career in a fridge.

It wasn't in a fridge.  That said, I don't have any real issue with it being stored in the collector's basement (I consider my house/basement secure enough for my family and my possessions).  The alternative was in some FedEx office.  Frankly, I'd trust the collector who is highly trained and has a five-year history of handling urine samples to some $10/hour FedEx counter worker.  Particularly when he is following the procedures that have been established by an extremely respected testing lab that was selected by MLB/Union.  Again, it is my opinion that the collector did absolutely nothing wrong in this case -- it seems he followed his employer's procedures.  The problem is that it would appear that his employer's procedures might have been inconsistent with the agreed-upon procedures in the MLB Joint Testing Agreement.  In my mind, that is probably enough to overturn the suspension.  It doesn't make the Collector a bad actor (or even irresponsible), and it doesn't prove that Braun was innocent.

[BrewCity83]

In my mind, that is probably enough to overturn the suspension.  It doesn't make the Collector a bad actor (or even irresponsible), and it doesn't prove that Braun was innocent.

It also doesn't prove that Braun cheated.

[Hards Alumni]

It wasn't in a fridge.  That said, I don't have any real issue with it being stored in the collector's basement (I consider my house/basement secure enough for my family and my possessions).  The alternative was in some FedEx office.  Frankly, I'd trust the collector who is highly trained and has a five-year history of handling urine samples to some $10/hour FedEx counter worker.  Particularly when he is following the procedures that have been established by an extremely respected testing lab that was selected by MLB/Union.  Again, it is my opinion that the collector did absolutely nothing wrong in this case -- it seems he followed his employer's procedures.  The problem is that it would appear that his employer's procedures might have been inconsistent with the agreed-upon procedures in the MLB Joint Testing Agreement.  In my mind, that is probably enough to overturn the suspension.  It doesn't make the Collector a bad actor (or even irresponsible), and it doesn't prove that Braun was innocent.

That is why I said $5 million dollars, not your family's possessions.

[Benny B]

I have a few problems with Braun's press conference which everyone said he won:

1)  He said that his testosterone level "was three times higher than any number in the history of drug testing".  This is not true.  His 20:1 levels were the highest for baseball, but drug tests in other sports such as track and football have been as high as 70:1.

His testosterone level was 3x higher.  He said nothing about his ratio being 3x higher.  In other words, let's say the natural levels of testosterone & epitestosterone in a human male is 10.  That's a ratio of 1:1.  Lets say that Macho Man Randy Savage is the all-time, all-sport record-holder and had testosterone of 350 and epitestosterone of 5.  That's 70:1.  Let's say Braun's sample is 1000 testosterone and 50 epitestosterone.  While the 20:1 is a smaller ratio than Macho Man, Braun also had 3x his testosterone level.

2) When it came to the collect dropping the samples off at FedEx, Braun said, "There were at least five FedEx locations within five miles of the stadium that were open until 9 p.m. and an additional FedEx location that was open for 24 hours. There were upwards of 18 or 19 FedEx locations that were open between the ballpark and his house that he could have dropped the samples off at".  He failed to mention in his press conference that all of these locations had stopped delievery at 5:00 when his test was taken.

According to JDPTP language... absent unusual circumstances, the sample was to be taken immediately to FedEx.  Whether FedEx was still delivering that day or not is irrelevant according to MLB's rules.

3) Had the sample been delievered to FedEx, Braun said, "it would have been stored in a temperature-controlled environment".  This isn't true.  Several FedEx employees have confirmed that they have no temperature controled enviroment.  The box gets placed with all of the others.

Climate control of the sample isn't the issue here.  As many have already surmised, a clean urine sample isn't going to develop synthetic testosterone in any environment, frozen, boiling or room temperature.  The issue is with chain of custody... the urine sample was left in a non-secure environment for nearly two full days.  Whether it was in a cooler or not, it was not being monitored.  Elaborating on Warrior's point... if left at a FedEx site, however, there would be at least one employee monitoring the sample during business hours and during non-business hours it would be secured and monitored by security.  Moreover, the people who would have had access to the package at FedEx would not be able to identify whose urine sample it was; conversely, there were at least two people who both knew the identity of and had access to the urine sample while it sat in Dino Laurenzi's basement. 

In the eyes of the legal and bioethics communities, the chain of custody would have been compromised in this scenario and therefore the results could only be deemed inconclusive at best.  In the JDPTP system where a positive result yields an immediate finding of guilt by default, chain of custody must be maintained, and the onus is on the testing authority to prove that it was.  In this case it wasn't, therefore, the test is negated because there's no way the authority can prove that a) the sample was not tainted and b) the sample belonged to Ryan Braun.

In my opinion, this doesn't fall into the category of a "technicality."  If there was a DNA test on the urine sample to prove it was Braun's and he still got off, that would be a technicality.  But in this case, Braun's drug test - positive or not - does not even exist because chain of custody cannot be demonstrated.  Neither Laurenzi, WADA, or MLB has reasonably proven that the sample was untainted and belonged to Braun... at this point, it's unlikely that they ever could.

"If the custody chain is missing a link, the urine must be dumped in the sink."

[StillAWarrior]

 

It also doesn't prove that Braun cheated.

I agree completely and have never said otherwise.  Braun is not a proven cheater; and he has not been proven innocent.

I personally think that he did fail his drug test, and that he got off on a technicality.  However, based upon my professional experience and what we've heard thus far, I think the arbitrator probably made a correct decision.  But in the grand scheme of things, what I think doesn't matter all all.

[Hards Alumni]

His testosterone level was 3x higher.  He said nothing about his ratio being 3x higher.  In other words, let's say the natural levels of testosterone & epitestosterone in a human male is 10.  That's a ratio of 1:1.  Lets say that Macho Man Randy Savage is the all-time, all-sport record-holder and had testosterone of 350 and epitestosterone of 5.  That's 70:1.  Let's say Braun's sample is 1000 testosterone and 50 epitestosterone.  While the 20:1 is a smaller ratio than Macho Man, Braun also had 3x his testosterone level.

According to JDPTP language... absent unusual circumstances, the sample was to be taken immediately to FedEx.  Whether FedEx was still delivering that day or not is irrelevant according to MLB's rules.

Climate control of the sample isn't the issue here.  As many have already surmised, a clean urine sample isn't going to develop synthetic testosterone in any environment, frozen, boiling or room temperature.  The issue is with chain of custody... the urine sample was left in a non-secure environment for nearly two full days.  Whether it was in a cooler or not, it was not being monitored.  Elaborating on Warrior's point... if left at a FedEx site, however, there would be at least one employee monitoring the sample during business hours and during non-business hours it would be secured and monitored by security.  Moreover, the people who would have had access to the package at FedEx would not be able to identify whose urine sample it was; conversely, there were at least two people who both knew the identity of and had access to the urine sample while it sat in Dino Laurenzi's basement. 

In the eyes of the legal and bioethics communities, the chain of custody would have been compromised in this scenario and therefore the results could only be deemed inconclusive at best.  In the JDPTP system where a positive result yields an immediate finding of guilt by default, chain of custody must be maintained, and the onus is on the testing authority to prove that it was.  In this case it wasn't, therefore, the test is negated because there's no way the authority can prove that a) the sample was not tainted and b) the sample belonged to Ryan Braun.

In my opinion, this doesn't fall into the category of a "technicality."  If there was a DNA test on the urine sample to prove it was Braun's and he still got off, that would be a technicality.  But in this case, Braun's drug test - positive or not - does not even exist because chain of custody cannot be demonstrated.  Neither Laurenzi, WADA, or MLB has reasonably proven that the sample was untainted and belonged to Braun... at this point, it's unlikely that they ever could.

"If the custody chain is missing a link, the urine must be dumped in the sink."

boom, lawyered.

[StillAWarrior]

That is why I said $5 million dollars, not your family's possessions.

This case is yet another example of why lawyers get all fussy over defining terms.  The question of what is a "secure" location would vary based upon what is being stored.  I would agree with you that I would not keep $5 million in my basement.  For large piles of cash to be "secure" you want protection from theft and/or destruction.  If it is stolen or burns, you're screwed.  For Ted Williams' head, you'd want to have a dependable cryogenic freezer for it to be secure.  A big question is what you need to keep a urine sample secure.  Apparently the testing company thought a cool location was good enough.  I suspect Ryan Braun disagrees.

[Hards Alumni]

This case is yet another example of why lawyers get all fussy over defining terms.  The question of what is a "secure" location would vary based upon what is being stored.  I would agree with you that I would not keep $5 million in my basement.  For large piles of cash to be "secure" you want protection from theft and/or destruction.  If it is stolen or burns, you're screwed.  For Ted Williams' head, you'd want to have a dependable cryogenic freezer for it to be secure.  A big question is what you need to keep a urine sample secure.  Apparently the testing company thought a cool location was good enough.  I suspect Ryan Braun disagrees.

Secure to me for urine would be a locked fridge with one key which the collector keeps on his person at all times.