Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[Abode4life]

There's nothing for you to be 'not sure' about.

Braun's legal team argued that the chain of custody was not proper procedure. That was their argument. That is that was voted upon. That's what the arbitrator agreed with.

They also argued about his past history of never failing a test and providing documentation that his physical stats have not changed like other juicers.  Without having talked to the arbitrator or reading his rationale, I assume this added to creating enough doubt that the procedural error could have caused the result to be wrong.  

[StillAWarrior]

The problem is you don't know that.  Nobody does.  Again, I would bet that less than 5% or relevant evidence has been released to the public in this case.  How do we know Braun failed his drug test without any tampering?  If people on this board were sitting in on the hearings, then I apologize and am wrong.  But if not, nobody knows anything.  I wasn't sitting in on the hearings either, but I think it is fair to assume that Braun's camp didn't walk in and say, "The proper procedures weren't followed with this specimen so he should be considered innocent" and the the independent arbitrator said, "You know what, you're right, we're reversing the 50 game ban."  (Not to mention, MLB and fans on this board are arguing that the procedures were correctly followed, so there must be more to it than just a 44 hour period in which the specimen was undocumented, and in that 44 hours in which it was undocumented, how can we know what was done to it?)

There is way more to this story than anybody here knows.  It was not just "He didn't drop it off at FedEx right away.  Overruled."

OK, my fault, I will rephrase my question.  You don't think Braun would have been careful enough to use a masking agent going into the Playoffs (even easier than laying of the juice for a while)?  Again, I find that hard to believe.

Under this logic, every Olympian whose ever tested positive was probably clean.  After all, who would train for four years and then juice before the Olympics when you know you're going to be tested.  Same with every cyclist in the Tour de France.  The "he can't possibly be that stupid, can he?" defense isn't terribly persuasive to me in light of the fact that history shows us that many athletes are, in fact, that stupid.

[Abode4life]

For me the Brewers are a rivial since I lived in Milwaukee while at Marquette.

No one else here cares.

Don't 75% of cubs "fans" not even care about the cubs?  I feel its just a cool thing to do for a much larger percentage of the "fans" that I know than other sports teams.  

And yes i came up with 75% via statistical analysis.  

[StillAWarrior]

They also argued about his past history of never failing a test and providing documentation that his physical stats have not changed like other juicers.  Without having talked to the arbitrator or reading his rationale, I assume this added to creating enough doubt that the procedural error could have caused the result to be wrong.  

This isn't a criminal case -- whether or not there was doubt about the results is not relevant.  The arbitrator did not need to even address the question of whether or not the result might have been wrong.  MLB and the players union agreed upon a procedure.  It appears that MLB (through its agent) did not follow the agreed-upon procedure.  That is enough for the arbitrator to overturn the suspension.  The arbitrator might very well be completely convinced that Braun was dirty -- with no doubt in his mind whatsoever -- but still overturn the suspension.

Edited to add:  it is my understanding based upon media reports that the arbitration did not address the question of whether the results were wrong, so an unbiased arbitrator hopefully would not have an opinion one way or the other on whether Braun was clean or dirty...I was just trying to make a point.

[dwaderoy2004]

They also argued about his past history of never failing a test and providing documentation that his physical stats have not changed like other juicers.  Without having talked to the arbitrator or reading his rationale, I assume this added to creating enough doubt that the procedural error could have caused the result to be wrong.  

The problem with that is in MLB, as I uderstand it, is that it's not innocent until proven guilty, it's guilty until proven innocent.  While there certainly COULD have been circumstances leading to the sample being tainted or tampered, the things I've seen and read don't seem to suggest that is what actually happened.  And I still don't know what procedures weren't followed by the collector.  I'm bowing out of the discussion because there is nothing that is gonna change my mind, and I'm clearly not going to change the mind of the Braun apologists.

[BlindboyPatSmith]

Don't 75% of cubs "fans" not even care about the cubs?  I feel its just a cool thing to do for a much larger percentage of the "fans" that I know than other sports teams.  

And yes i came up with 75% via statistical analysis.  

Are the Cubs still in the National League?

[StillAWarrior]

The problem with that is in MLB, as I uderstand it, is that it's not innocent until proven guilty, it's guilty until proven innocent.  While there certainly COULD have been circumstances leading to the sample being tainted or tampered, the things I've seen and read don't seem to suggest that is what actually happened.  And I still don't know what procedures weren't followed by the collector.  I'm bowing out of the discussion because there is nothing that is gonna change my mind, and I'm clearly not going to change the mind of the Braun apologists.

Based upon what I've seen/heard it's a little confusing because it seems like there might be different sets of "procedures" being discussed.  First, there are the collectively bargained procedures between MLB and the player's union.  It is my understanding that these procedures required the sample to be dropped at FedEx right away (don't know the specific language used).  It was the violation of this procedure that caused the arbitrator to overturn the suspension.  But today, the collector issued a statement that talked about procedures that he's used as a collector for the testing lab.  He claims that under this procedure he's supposed to keep the sample rather than drop it at a FedEx location if FedEx won't be shipping right away.  This would be between him and his employer (the testing lab).  It's not entirely clear to me, and I'll admit I'm speculating, but it is quite possible that a testing lab's procedure (collector keeps keeps sample rather than dropping it at a FedEx location for later shipping) could be inconsistent with the collectively bargained procedure (collector leaves sample at FedEx for later shipping).  Both could be effective chain of custody from a legal sense, and both could ensure accurate results.  But since MLB didn't do what it agreed to do in the collective bargaining agreement (even if the collector acted completely appropriately -- and I honestly don't know whether he did or not), the suspension gets overturned.

[Hoopaloop]

They also argued about his past history of never failing a test and providing documentation that his physical stats have not changed like other juicers.  Without having talked to the arbitrator or reading his rationale, I assume this added to creating enough doubt that the procedural error could have caused the result to be wrong.  

Marion Jones never failed a test either, over 20 of them, until she failed one. 

If I drive on the freeway for 30 years without an accident but then cause one later today, am I less responsible for causing the accident because of the previous 30 years of driving activity?

[BrewCity83]

If I drive on the freeway for 30 years without an accident but then cause one later today, am I less responsible for causing the accident because of the previous 30 years of driving activity?

No, but you should get a lighter punishment than someone who has a history of driving negligently.

[Hards Alumni]

Braun didn't focus on positive/negative because it isn't relevant to his case. This is lawyering 101. You find the weakest point (not points) of an argument and you attack that.  And that was the procedure.

Personally, I have been drug tested for work and the 'tape' that they use is not like the old school tape that you find that void's warranties. Also, the same can be said for the thousands of samples that I tested when I worked in the pharma industry. So many of those labels are half assed when they are put on I could easily remove them without making it look like it was tampered with. I mean, its a sticker. It isn't fool proof.

He is playing baseball because the MLB screwed up the test they designed. They designed it to be bulletproof. What if this was a DNA test for a guy who was on death row. He should smile and be called a murder for life because the chain was broken and he got off on a 'technicality'?

FURTHERMORE, drugs respond differently when they are exposed to different temps and humidity. You'd be surprised at how much. Again, having worked in stability testing in the pharma industry we would NEVER be allowed to even test a sample that had been sitting out two days unless it was explicitly stated in the paperwork.  Who is to say that Epitestosterone doesn't degrade faster than testosterone when it sits out for a period of time?

I really can't believe we are still talking about this. 

[wadesworld]

Braun didn't focus on positive/negative because it isn't relevant to his case. This is lawyering 101. You find the weakest point (not points) of an argument and you attack that.  And that was the procedure.

Personally, I have been drug tested for work and the 'tape' that they use is not like the old school tape that you find that void's warranties. Also, the same can be said for the thousands of samples that I tested when I worked in the pharma industry. So many of those labels are half assed when they are put on I could easily remove them without making it look like it was tampered with. I mean, its a sticker. It isn't fool proof.

He is playing baseball because the MLB screwed up the test they designed. They designed it to be bulletproof. What if this was a DNA test for a guy who was on death row. He should smile and be called a murder for life because the chain was broken and he got off on a 'technicality'?

FURTHERMORE, drugs respond differently when they are exposed to different temps and humidity. You'd be surprised at how much. Again, having worked in stability testing in the pharma industry we would NEVER be allowed to even test a sample that had been sitting out two days unless it was explicitly stated in the paperwork.  Who is to say that Epitestosterone doesn't degrade faster than testosterone when it sits out for a period of time?

I really can't believe we are still talking about this. 

Good post.  Thanks for the insight.  You clearly have more expertise on this than I do and what I would assume most posters here do.  Same goes for StillAWarrior in terms of the legal part of the equation.  So I will take your word on those issues.

Since you did bring up DNA, Braun claims (again, I have no knowledge as to whether he is telling the truth on this or not, but considering MLB could very easily have come out and said "No he didn't" but didn't do that, I believe he did) that he offered to have a DNA test done to, I believe I remember him saying, prove that the sample was not his sample.  If this is the case, Braun's camp must have found some evidence to suggest that the sample didn't even come from Braun's body.  Again, I am no expert on any of this, but you would think Braun's camp had some knowledge on this or MLB would have come out and claimed that he did not make this offer.  Why would MLB have rejected this offer?  Would they really destroy a sample that is under appeal?

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I really can't believe we are still talking about this.  

Exactly....he tested positive and got off on a technicality.....he is going to play next year.....he obviously took PED's.....let's move on.  I am pretty sure MLB does not use "half assed" labels, just sayin'.....He tested positive and that is all anyone will remember except for the few in this country that will defend the guy till the end....p.s. not a cubs fan here.

[timinatorx3]

Cubs fans accept Sosa was dirty because his corked bat exploded all over Wrigley field.

Sosa, very clearly, was not dirty. Prior to that bat breaking, Sosa's bats had been tested (by breaking) at least 25 times over the course of his career, and at least three times in 2003 prior to that bat breaking. He never had any cork issues. Furthermore, if you look at his stats from around the time of the corked bat incident, you will see that he didn't get one percent stronger, and he didn't have any additional power or any additional arm strength. He was 2-15 in the three games prior to the incident, including one five-strikeout game. All of those things are documented contemporaneously. It is possible that just before Sosa was on deck, someone planted the corked bat where Sosa usually keeps his uncorked bats (probably someone who was paid a large sum of money by ESPN), and Sosa unwittingly grabbed the tainted bat. Finally, it should also be noted that Sammy Sosa only admitted to having taken Flintstone's vitamins, something that is not on MLB's banned substance list. He was so sincere when he said it, too. I have seen many press conferences in my day, and believe me, he said it himself, and you could just tell he was speaking the truth.

There. It might sound ridiculous, but I have successfully proven that just like Ryan Braun, Sammy Sosa is innocent of any wrongdoing.

...or maybe they both actually cheated?

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Sosa, very clearly, was not dirty. Prior to that bat breaking, Sosa's bats had been tested (by breaking) at least 25 times over the course of his career, and at least three times in 2003 prior to that bat breaking. He never had any cork issues. Furthermore, if you look at his stats from around the time of the corked bat incident, you will see that he didn't get one percent stronger, and he didn't have any additional power or any additional arm strength. He was 2-15 in the three games prior to the incident, including one five-strikeout game. All of those things are documented contemporaneously. It is possible that just before Sosa was on deck, someone planted the corked bat where Sosa usually keeps his uncorked bats (probably someone who was paid a large sum of money by ESPN), and Sosa unwittingly grabbed the the tainted bat. Finally, it should also be noted that Sammy Sosa only admitted to having taken Flintstone's vitamins, something that is not on MLB's banned substance list. He was so sincere when he said it, too. I have seen many press conferences in my day, and believe me, he said it himself, and you could just tell he was speaking the truth.

There. It might sound ridiculous, but I have successfully proven that just like Ryan Braun, Sammy Sosa is innocent of any wrongdoing.

...or maybe they both actually cheated?

I think Sammy Strikeout's bats were delivered via FedEx and during that plane/truck trip someone drilled the bats and corked them in their basement.  

Braun tested positive = Dirty player...no questions asked.

[Hoopaloop]

No, but you should get a lighter punishment than someone who has a history of driving negligently.

Not when there is a zero tolerance policy that everyone in the league knows about.

[RawdogDX]

If you actually think him getting out of this actually means he's innocent then I'll assume you also think OJ didn't do it.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7625905/milwaukee-brewers-ryan-braun-case-sample-collector-says-followed-protocols

Another rich guy finds a technicality.  Have fun pretending like he's not a cheater milwaukee.

[Spotcheck Billy]

So many of those labels are half assed when they are put on I could easily remove them without making it look like it was tampered with. I mean, its a sticker. It isn't fool proof.

the collector DID refer to the labels as tamper resistant not tamper proof

[LON]

Problem?

[Hards Alumni]

Exactly....he tested positive and got off on a technicality.....he is going to play next year.....he obviously took PED's.....let's move on.  I am pretty sure MLB does not use "half assed" labels, just sayin'.....He tested positive and that is all anyone will remember except for the few in this country that will defend the guy till the end....p.s. not a cubs fan here.

And you think a multi-billion dollar pharma company would use half assed labels when they are worried about their samples getting FDA approval?  People make mistakes, samples get confused, samples get contaminated, samples are improperly stored... and like I said, stickers are EASILY defeatable.  You've seen those "warranty void if removed" stickers they place on almost every PC?  I have never had a problem removing them by hand.  Beyond that, who is to say that the collector didn't make some of 'his own' samples, or someone else's samples... he clearly has access to all of the supplies needed to fake something like this.

Look I'm not saying the collector did fake it or anything like that.  What I am saying is that the rules are far too sketchy and the MLB needs to be more clear with the language they created in a legal document.  With 100% of the burden of proof on the players, the MLB better have airtight language and procedures.

You guys can believe what you want about Ryan's presumed guilt or lack of guilt, but the only thing that matters is that the MLB screwed this up, and it should have been a non-story from the get go.  Whoever leaked the story should be prosecuted, and should serve some time.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

the collector DID refer to the labels as tamper resistant not tamper proof

I was really on the fence about the whole thing, but this settles it for me.

"Resistant" is the smoking gun that proves this guy screwed Braun.

[MerrittsMustache]

the collector DID refer to the labels as tamper resistant not tamper proof

What would possibly be the courier's motivation to tamper with the sample? He wanted the best player on his favorite team to sit for 50 games?

[MUMac]

What would possibly be the courier's motivation to tamper with the sample? He wanted the best player on his favorite team to sit for 50 games?

It was not the courier, it was the collector.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

What would possibly be the courier's motivation to tamper with the sample? He wanted the best player on his favorite team to sit for 50 games?

It was pointed out in the JS online comments (I know, I know) that this guy had the Cubs listed as one of his favorite teams on facebook, before removing it when his name was leaked. He's from Kenosha -- not exactly a hotbed of Brewers fandom.

[🏀]

You guys think the US Goverment was behind the 9/11 attacks too?

[MerrittsMustache]

It was pointed out in the JS online comments (I know, I know) that this guy had the Cubs listed as one of his favorite teams on facebook, before removing it when his name was leaked. He's from Kenosha -- not exactly a hotbed of Brewers fandom.

Well, he's not a Cubs fan so there goes that theory.

It was not the courier, it was the collector.

OK. Then what was the collector's motivation?