Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[TallTitan34]

Braun even said in his press conference the sample was collected at 5:00 P.M.

This isn't an issue.

[wadesworld]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/29/sports/baseball/drug-test-collector-in-braun-case-says-he-followed-protocol.html?_r=2&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+nyt/rss/Sports+(NYT+%3E+Sports)&seid=auto&smid=tw-nytimessports

The collector followed the rules by refrigerating the sample since it couldn't be delivered right away.

Outside of Milwaukee fans, no one will believe Braun after this.

Also, nowhere does it say he refrigerated the samples.  He says it was in his basement office, which he claims is cool enough to store samples.  So it was sitting on an office desk...

[copious1218]

Yes.  So the game started at 2:07 PM.  The game lasted 2 hours and 44 minutes.  The last out was recorded at 4:51 PM.  You don't think the team was on the field and in the dugout for 9 minutes?  The players would have to do all of their post game interviews, celebrate with their teammates (a 4-1 Game 1 victory), pack up all of their things in the dugout, walk to the clubhouse, 3 players would have had to go pee in 2 cups, watch the collector seal everything up correctly, sign that everything was done correctly, etc. on 3 separate occasions (the 1 collector collected the samples from all 3 players himself) in 9 minutes.  It just doesn't add up.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=311001108

First, I was just trying to point to the fact that the sample was not collected PRIOR TO the game. 

Second, who says players have to do their interview first?  He also said around 5pm - would you consider 5:10/5:15/5:20 around 5pm.  Is the collector expected to look at his watch and document the exact time?

I think the timeframe is perfect.  Plus, it appears Braun agreed with him on the timeframe so no issue.

[Lennys Tap]

He didn't lie before any of this came out.  The statement was released after it was known that the chain of custody was broken.  So he definitely has motivation to lie to save face.  What, should he come out and say "Yes, I tampered with the specimen?"

Again, I think that the possibility that some rogue, Ryan Braun hating collector tampered with his sample is extremely remote. I don't blame Braun for using the life preserver that fell so conveniently into his lap. I don't blame the arbitrator for throwing out Braun's suspension, either. But the chance that he's truly innocent is a real longshot.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

Again, I think that the possibility that some rogue, Ryan Braun hating collector tampered with his sample is extremely remote. I don't blame Braun for using the life preserver that fell so conveniently into his lap. I don't blame the arbitrator for throwing out Braun's suspension, either. But the chance that he's really innocent is a real longshot.

Beyond a real longshot.

[TallTitan34]

Also, nowhere does it say he refrigerated the samples.  He says it was in his basement office, which he claims is cool enough to store samples.  So it was sitting on an office desk...

He kept them at acceptable levels.

Why can't you accept Braun is most likely guilty.  Red Sox fans accept Manny was dirty.  Cubs fans accept Sosa was dirty.  Every team in baseball has dirty players.

[BlindboyPatSmith]

Not that it REALLY matters but that game ended at 4:51 pm

[wadesworld]

He kept them at acceptable levels.

Why can't you accept Braun is most likely guilty.  Red Sox fans accept Manny was dirty.  Cubs fans accept Sosa was dirty.  Every team in baseball has dirty players.

Why is he most likely guilty?  None of us have any information needed to make that claim.  He'd have to be pretty dumb to juice right before the Playoffs began, especially to the point that he had 3x the testosterone level that was ever recorded in baseball's drug testing.  Again, there is a reason that this is the first appeal ever to be overturned in baseball's drug testing.  If somebody is guilty, they are guilty and serve their penalty.

[🏀]

Why is he most likely guilty?  None of us have any information needed to make that claim.  He'd have to be pretty dumb to juice right before the Playoffs began, especially to the point that he had 3x the testosterone level that was ever recorded in baseball's drug testing.  Again, there is a reason that this is the first appeal ever to be overturned in baseball's drug testing.  If somebody is guilty, they are guilty and serve their penalty.

Take them off wadesworld. I know you love him, but quit running from it. He can still hit the crap out of the ball and is still a great baseball player. It's okay to admit he may have cheated.

[cheebs09]

Everyone has to remember that the arbitrator decided in favor of Braun. I think there is more to it than just this 44 hours. It's not like the arbitrator is some average guy off the street, he's got some serious credentials. It is really tough to overturn these cases, and the collector testified. According to Dan Patrick's source, he took 37 seconds to say his name and couldn't even look at Braun.

Granted it is tough for non-Brewer fans to see why he is innocent, and vice versa, but let's not act like all the facts are out there right now. I think this still has a decent way to go before it is resolved in the public's eye.

Will Carroll said that he has sources saying Braun's defense team was able to recreate the positive test.

[Lennys Tap]

 If somebody is guilty, they are guilty and serve their penalty.

What world do you live in? Just as there are many truly innocent people incarcerated today, there are many guilty people free on technicalities. If a cop fails to Mirandize a cold blooded killer the perp walks - technically not guilty but anything but innocent.

[Abode4life]

Take them off wadesworld. I know you love him, but quit running from it. He can still hit the crap out of the ball and is still a great baseball player. It's okay to admit he may have cheated.

I don't think he is running from anything.  If you look critically at the evidence not as a baseball fan, there is enough to cast a lot of doubt as to whether the results are valid because the procedures in place were not followed.  I hope they test Braun multiple times a year because i love him and I would definitely be disappointed if he was doping.  There isn't much Braun can do besides continue to test negative to prove that he doesn't do it.  If he truly didn't do it, that's probably the biggest shame in all of this.  

[TallTitan34]

Will Carroll said that he has sources saying Braun's defense team was able to recreate the positive test.

Was he able to do this without opening three seals?  Was he able to do this without altering the other samples in the box as well?

[wadesworld]

What world do you live in? Just as there are many truly innocent people incarcerated today, there are many guilty people free on technicalities. If a cop fails to Mirandize a cold blooded killer the perp walks - technically not guilty but anything but innocent.

I said nothing about society.  Is there any other time that a test result was overturned in baseball's drug testing?  If there was, then maybe you have a point.  But this is the first time it has ever happened.  It goes well beyond what has been made public.

Take them off wadesworld. I know you love him, but quit running from it. He can still hit the crap out of the ball and is still a great baseball player. It's okay to admit he may have cheated.

I love Braun because he is a great baseball player on the Brewers, but he is far from my favorite player and I do not love the guy's personality.  In fact, I had said (and stated as such on MUScoop after the leak was reported...and to friends years before any of this happened) that I thought Braun HAD juiced...back when he was at the University of Miami and A Rod was there juicing.  But based on everything that has come out, and the fact that we know very little, and the fact that this is the first and only time a ruling has ever been overturned, I don't think Braun had anything in his system.

Again, he would have to be an extremely unintelligent and careless person to put whatever it took to get 3x as much testosterone in his body than any other baseball player has been found to have right before the beginning of the Playoffs.

[wadesworld]

Was he able to do this without opening three seals?  Was he able to do this without altering the other samples in the box as well?

Biochemicists testified that if the individual(s) was(/were) motivated, they could "easily" tamper with the specimen in a 44 hour timeframe.

[TallTitan34]

Biochemicists testified that if the individual(s) was(/were) motivated, they could "easily" tamper with the specimen in a 44 hour timeframe.

Again, could they do this without opening three seals?  Could they do this without altering the other samples in the box as well?

[LON]

He kept them at acceptable levels.

Why can't you accept Braun is most likely guilty.  Red Sox fans accept Manny was dirty.  Cubs fans accept Sosa was dirty.  Every team in baseball has dirty players.

Cubs fans accept Sosa was dirty because his corked bat exploded all over Wrigley field.

[TallTitan34]

Again, he would have to be an extremely unintelligent and careless person to put whatever it took to get 3x as much testosterone in his body than any other baseball player has been found to have right before the beginning of the Playoffs.

This is another fact Ryan Braun is wrong about.  Players have tested higher.

[wadesworld]

Again, could they do this without opening three seals?  Could they do this without altering the other samples in the box as well?

Yes, they could open 3 seals and reseal them.  And without altering the other samples?  Umm, yes.  Take the 2 samples you want to alter and alter them.  Leave the other 2 alone.

[wadesworld]

This is another fact Ryan Braun is wrong about.  Players have tested higher.

Says who?  Human beings have, but not baseball players.

[cheebs09]

Also, Dan Patrick said two other Brewers had spiked tests and they were presumably thrown out. Maybe all 3 were screwy, but Braun's was lower or something. Like I said earlier, there is still a lot that we don't know.

Also, yes Patrick's sources and Carroll's may also be wrong, but just because they are saying facts that may be pro-Braun, doesn't mean they are wrong.

[Spotcheck Billy]

when this story first leaked I seem to recall there were 2 other players with just as high of results

we haven't heard anymore about that but maybe their appeals are still confidential like Braun's should have been

all this mention about no other player ever won an appeal doesn't impress me much because it's NOT like 200 players lost their appeals, the number is still relatively small and perhaps they actually were dirty (I'm not saying Braun wsn't but I still am giving him the benefit of my doubt)

[TallTitan34]

Says who?  Human beings have, but not baseball players.

The Score has been reporting it for awhile.  I'll see if I can find it.

[TallTitan34]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_drug_test_appeal_testosterone_022712

Some of Braun's other arguments reeked of desperation. He talked about how his T:E ratio of more than 20:1 was three times higher than any previous in baseball. He didn't talk about how other athletes' ratios have tested as high as 70:1.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I love the dodge about no FedEx shipping within 50 miles, when this clown knows that the problem is that he was originally claiming that there were no FedExs OPEN after he got finished at Miller Park. That alone suggests to me that this guy is full of it. He wants to get around the fact that there are 5 FedExs within 5 miles of the park and a couple dozen more on his way home to Kenosha, and that almost all of them were open until 9pm that night, many auxillary facilities were open on Sunday, and this guy didn't even drop off the collection until the AFTERNOON of Monday!