Ryan Braun Wins Appeal

[TallTitan34]

I love the dodge about no FedEx shipping within 50 miles, when this clown knows that the problem is that he was originally claiming that there were no FedExs OPEN after he got finished at Miller Park. That alone suggests to me that this guy is full of it. He wants to get around the fact that there are 5 FedExs within 5 miles of the park and a couple dozen more on his way home to Kenosha, and that almost all of them were open until 9pm that night, many auxillary facilities were open on Sunday, and this guy didn't even drop off the collection until the AFTERNOON of Monday!

Is this a real post?

If you read the collectors statement, FedEx stops shipping after 5 P.M. on Saturday which has been confirmed.  The collectors agency's protocol is to have the collector take the sample home and keep it until it can be delievered (Monday).

[TallTitan34]

If the collector had dropped the sample off, Braun could have argued that the sample was out of the collectors custody.

BREWERS FANS, JUST ADMIT IT ALREADY!

[Abode4life]

No he couldn't have because that's part of the agreed upon procedures between MLB and the Player's Association that they use Fedex, who has procedures in place to ensure the sample is safe. 

[wadesworld]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-passan_ryan_braun_drug_test_appeal_testosterone_022712

Some of Braun's other arguments reeked of desperation. He talked about how his T:E ratio of more than 20:1 was three times higher than any previous in baseball. He didn't talk about how other athletes' ratios have tested as high as 70:1.

Athletes.  Not baseball players.  His was 3x higher than any other baseball player that has been tested.

If the collector had dropped the sample off, Braun could have argued that the sample was out of the collectors custody.

BREWERS FANS, JUST ADMIT IT ALREADY!

Admit what?  There are probably less than 5% of relevant details that have been released to the public at this point.  Again, for him to juice within days of the playoffs beginning would have been incredibly dumb on his part.  Maybe if it were in the middle of the season it would have been a little bit more realistic, but you don't think players going into the playoffs would know to get whatever it is they may have in their systems out of there before then?  That would be pretty naive to think otherwise.

CUBS FANS, STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW ALL OF THE DETAILS!

[wadesworld]

No he couldn't have because that's part of the agreed upon procedures between MLB and the Player's Association that they use Fedex, who has procedures in place to ensure the sample is safe. 

Exactly.  And then once the specimen had been dropped off at FedEx, nobody knows whose sample it is.  The confidentiality was broken by keeping it on his desk in his basement for 44 extra hours.  There was no reason to do that, and it was against the drug testing rules.

[TallTitan34]

You seriously believe he is clean?

That is insane.

[wadesworld]

You seriously believe he is clean?

That is insane.

I absolutely do.  Apparently the arbitrator did too.  An independent arbitrator.  That both the MLB and MLBPA agreed upon.  Somebody who surely has more expertise in this than any of us do.

[TallTitan34]

Wow. 

[🏀]

CUBS FANS, STOP PRETENDING YOU KNOW ALL OF THE DETAILS!

It's not Cubs fans, it's everyone. Look at the national media. Look at the MLB, they are considering appealing to the Supreme Court.

I absolutely do.  Apparently the arbitrator did too.  An independent arbitrator.  That both the MLB and MLBPA agreed upon.  Somebody who surely has more expertise in this than any of us do.

The arbitrator did not determine Ryan Braun was clean, it was determined that the testing procedure was flawed.

If you blow a .10 BAC, get charged with a DUI but get off because of a procedure error you still were driving over the legal limit.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

It's interesting how the protocol keeps switching. Originally we were told that samples must be brought to FedEx the same day. Now we're told by MLB and this guy's lawyer that that doesn't really matter and you or your kid can bring it home if you want.

TITAN: JUST ADMIT IT. YOU'RE A BIASED CUBS FAN WHO IS OBSESSED ABOUT THIS TO THE POINT OF TYPING IN ALL CAPS.

[MerrittsMustache]

Again, for him to juice within days of the playoffs beginning would have been incredibly dumb on his part.  Maybe if it were in the middle of the season it would have been a little bit more realistic, but you don't think players going into the playoffs would know to get whatever it is they may have in their systems out of there before then?  That would be pretty naive to think otherwise.

That's what masking agents are for. Juicers don't stop juicing just because it's the playoffs.

I absolutely do.  Apparently the arbitrator did too.  An independent arbitrator.  That both the MLB and MLBPA agreed upon.  Somebody who surely has more expertise in this than any of us do.

The arbitrator didn't rule that he was clean. He ruled that the proper protocol hadn't been followed.

[GGGG]

I absolutely do.  Apparently the arbitrator did too.  An independent arbitrator.  That both the MLB and MLBPA agreed upon.  Somebody who surely has more expertise in this than any of us do.

Hold on.  There is a difference between "believing he is clean,"  and "believing he might not be dirty."  

The evidence you bring forward suggests that you believe he might not dirty....but how could you possibly believe he is clean?  He failed a drug test...there was no evidence of tampering or personal animosity...  All the defense comes down to a procedural error.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I should point out that I'm really indifferent as to whether he did it. I can't really tell. But the heavy panting from MLB and angry Cubs fans makes me lean towards Braun being clean.

[StillAWarrior]

I absolutely do.  Apparently the arbitrator did too.  An independent arbitrator.  That both the MLB and MLBPA agreed upon.  Somebody who surely has more expertise in this than any of us do.

I'm not a Cubs fan and have absolutely no dog in this fight, but unless I've missed something, the arbitrator absolutely did not state that he thinks that Braun is clean.  Braun won this on a technicality.  And as someone who has handled many labor arbitrations in my career, I honestly don't have a problem with the decision (assuming that the procedures agreed to in the CBA weren't followed -- I haven't read it).  But let's not pretend that the arbitrator even touched upon the issue of whether Braun was clean.

[TallTitan34]

TITAN: JUST ADMIT IT. YOU'RE A BIASED CUBS FAN WHO IS OBSESSED ABOUT THIS TO THE POINT OF TYPING IN ALL CAPS.

I can also admit when my guys screw up.

Sammy Sosa = Juicer (despite never failing a test)
Michael Jordan = A$$hole
Walter Payton = Adulterer
Bobby Hull = Wife beater

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

All the defense comes down to a procedural error.

I'm not sure it's just a procedural error. The story from this guy and MLB keeps changing: that's the problem. First we were told by this guy that he didn't think that any FedExs were open after he left MP. Now we're told that he himself was told to keep it in his possession until the next business day. This is also the first day since the story broke on Thursday that MLB has had any kind of justification for where the sample was for 44 hours.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I can also admit when my guys screw up.

Sammy Sosa = Juicer (despite never failing a test)
Michael Jordan = A$$hole
Walter Payton = Adulterer
Bobby Hull = Wife beater

I was mostly trying to rib you.  I'm glad you are acknowledging that Chicago has had some bad guys. If Braun really did it, I hope eventually the truth gets out.

[jmayer1]

Wow. 

Yeah, I can't believe how much time you've wasted in this argument about a player on another team which you supposedly don't care at all about since they aren't a rival and nobody in Chicago ever thinks about.

[wadesworld]

Hold on.  There is a difference between "believing he is clean,"  and "believing he might not be dirty."  

The evidence you bring forward suggests that you believe he might not dirty....but how could you possibly believe he is clean?  He failed a drug test...there was no evidence of tampering or personal animosity...  All the defense comes down to a procedural error.

The problem is you don't know that.  Nobody does.  Again, I would bet that less than 5% or relevant evidence has been released to the public in this case.  How do we know Braun failed his drug test without any tampering?  If people on this board were sitting in on the hearings, then I apologize and am wrong.  But if not, nobody knows anything.  I wasn't sitting in on the hearings either, but I think it is fair to assume that Braun's camp didn't walk in and say, "The proper procedures weren't followed with this specimen so he should be considered innocent" and the the independent arbitrator said, "You know what, you're right, we're reversing the 50 game ban."  (Not to mention, MLB and fans on this board are arguing that the procedures were correctly followed, so there must be more to it than just a 44 hour period in which the specimen was undocumented, and in that 44 hours in which it was undocumented, how can we know what was done to it?)

There is way more to this story than anybody here knows.  It was not just "He didn't drop it off at FedEx right away.  Overruled."

That's what masking agents are for. Juicers don't stop juicing just because it's the playoffs.

The arbitrator didn't rule that he was clean. He ruled that the proper protocol hadn't been followed.

OK, my fault, I will rephrase my question.  You don't think Braun would have been careful enough to use a masking agent going into the Playoffs (even easier than laying of the juice for a while)?  Again, I find that hard to believe.

[🏀]

I'm not sure it's just a procedural error. The story from this guy and MLB keeps changing: that's the problem. First we were told by this guy that he didn't think that any FedExs were open after he left MP. Now we're told that he himself was told to keep it in his possession until the next business day. This is also the first day since the story broke on Thursday that MLB has had any kind of justification for where the sample was for 44 hours.

There's nothing for you to be 'not sure' about.

Braun's legal team argued that the chain of custody was not proper procedure. That was their argument. That is that was voted upon. That's what the arbitrator agreed with.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm not sure it's just a procedural error. The story from this guy and MLB keeps changing: that's the problem. First we were told by this guy that he didn't think that any FedExs were open after he left MP. Now we're told that he himself was told to keep it in his possession until the next business day. This is also the first day since the story broke on Thursday that MLB has had any kind of justification for where the sample was for 44 hours.

MLB's biggest problem is that the big wigs at MLB are, for the most part, bumbling idiots.

[cheebs09]

 All the defense comes down to a procedural error.

That we know about. Will Carroll is saying that the procedural error is the beginning of his defense, not his whole defense. He may be wrong, but so may others.

[MerrittsMustache]

OK, my fault, I will rephrase my question.  You don't think Braun would have been careful enough to use a masking agent going into the Playoffs (even easier than laying of the juice for a while)?  Again, I find that hard to believe.

No, I don't.

How does ANY player fail a drug test? He wasn't being careful enough.

[StillAWarrior]

The problem is you don't know that.  Nobody does.  Again, I would bet that less than 5% or relevant evidence has been released to the public in this case.  How do we know Braun failed his drug test without any tampering?  If people on this board were sitting in on the hearings, then I apologize and am wrong.  But if not, nobody knows anything.  I wasn't sitting in on the hearings either, but I think it is fair to assume that Braun's camp didn't walk in and say, "The proper procedures weren't followed with this specimen so he should be considered innocent" and the the independent arbitrator said, "You know what, you're right, we're reversing the 50 game ban."  (Not to mention, MLB and fans on this board are arguing that the procedures were correctly followed, so there must be more to it than just a 44 hour period in which the specimen was undocumented, and in that 44 hours in which it was undocumented, how can we know what was done to it?)

There is way more to this story than anybody here knows.  It was not just "He didn't drop it off at FedEx right away.  Overruled."

Obviously, I wasn't in the hearings either, and can't say for certain that this is what happened.  But having been involved in many labor arbitrations over the years, I wouldn't make that assumption.  In fact, I strongly suspect (but admittedly do not know) that this is pretty much exactly how the hearing went -- although they probably didn't say he was innocent.  Rather, they would say that the suspension should be overturned because of MLB's failure to follow the collectively bargained procedure.  And when you're dealing with a collective bargaining agreement, that probably would be enough to get the discipline overturned.  I suspect they also put on some evidence about the possibility of tampering (and not actual tampering) and such in order to explain to the arbitrator why the procedure is important and should be enforced, but at the end of the day, the failure to follow the procedure was the basis for overturning the decision.

[TallTitan34]

Yeah, I can't believe how much time you've wasted in this argument about a player on another team which you supposedly don't care at all about since they aren't a rival and nobody in Chicago ever thinks about.

For me the Brewers are a rivial since I lived in Milwaukee while at Marquette.

No one else here cares.