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Author Topic: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/11/19  (Read 279882 times)

Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #850 on: October 23, 2018, 05:10:17 AM »
When does the Big East Coaches poll come out? and the national coaches poll?
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

MUDPT

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #851 on: October 23, 2018, 05:37:46 AM »
we were undefeated to Dec 19th in 2011-12 and we still topped out at 10 so not necessarily.

After we beat UW that year, we were ranked #1 on Pomeroy.

Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #852 on: October 23, 2018, 06:02:30 AM »
After we beat UW that year, we were ranked #1 on Pomeroy.

cool. I don't think that's one of the two polls everyone pays attention to but cool nonetheless.
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Windyplayer

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #853 on: October 23, 2018, 01:30:45 PM »
When does the Big East Coaches poll come out? and the national coaches poll?
This seems to be perplexing Scoopers, me included.

Dr. Blackheart

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #854 on: October 23, 2018, 09:37:34 PM »
This seems to be perplexing Scoopers, me included.

Thursday is Media Day

Windyplayer

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Windyplayer

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #856 on: October 25, 2018, 11:53:32 AM »

Loose Cannon

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #857 on: October 25, 2018, 12:07:15 PM »
Prep the pitchforks!

Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/

I always liked being the Hunter.  These are nice pieces to bring to the Fire.
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warriorchick

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #858 on: October 26, 2018, 08:45:31 AM »
Prep the pitchforks!

Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/

Excellent. Other coaches are underestimating us. They are falling right into our trap.
Have some patience, FFS.

Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #859 on: October 26, 2018, 08:54:16 AM »
Excellent. Other coaches are underestimating us. They are falling right into our trap.

Hoping it's Self Gard Miller & Weber. (Also my motto when I want to be the only one grilling at a BBQ)
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #860 on: October 27, 2018, 04:00:17 AM »
https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/team/marquette-golden-eagles/2018

If anyone's curious about who voted for us to be where here's the breakdown. 33 had us between 18 & 25, 32 had us out
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

brewcity77

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #861 on: October 27, 2018, 05:57:10 AM »
Matt Norlander had us #27 on his list of all 353 teams, but when Gary Parrish asked him on their podcast which team outside the top-25 had the best chance to make the Final Four, he wasted no time in saying Marquette. Pointed out that we return almost everyone and have legit, proven shooters.

MU82

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #862 on: October 27, 2018, 06:20:30 AM »
Prep the pitchforks!

Coaches Poll (MU not ranked):

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2018/10/25/kansas-jayhawks-no-1-usa-today-preseason-mens-basketball-poll/1751736002/

Coaches are too busy to waste their time with this. Most turn it over to assistants or to SIDs.
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Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #863 on: November 05, 2018, 01:27:00 AM »
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

brewcity77

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #864 on: November 05, 2018, 04:45:43 AM »

Windyplayer

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #865 on: November 05, 2018, 12:14:14 PM »
Wow, his model does not like Nevada (39).
What happened in Vegas did not stay in Vegas for Sagarin.

The Hamberdler

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #866 on: November 05, 2018, 03:49:54 PM »
Sagarin has us 12

http://sagarin.com/sports/cbsend.htm

And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?

Galway Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #867 on: November 05, 2018, 04:18:04 PM »
And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?

You'd think that the math sources would eliminate the possibility of that always good bias. Maybe their models are overly reliant on efficiency which screws up the Wisconsin rating?
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” Albert Einstein a note for some posters

TAMU Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #868 on: November 05, 2018, 04:35:28 PM »
And yet another source expecting a truly dramatic turnaround for UW, who apparently has a better incoming class than Nebraska, but literally no one else in the B12 (according to 247). I mean, not like they generally play a ton of freshmen anyway but they could have definitely used them this year. I just don't see where the secret sauce is coming from... Is it as simple as "Wisconsin is always good"?

They lose nobody and return a starter and top bench player from season long injuries. They were a top 75 team last season per KenPom. Assuming normal progression from their returning players, they should be an NCAA tournament team this season. #30 seems a tad high to me but not unreasonable. They strike me as a top 40 team.

Anytime you use a formula you are bound to get some wonky results. Nevada at 39, Cincy at 11, Auburn at 33, UCF at 17, Mississippi State/Alabama/LSU in the high 40s all seem out of place to me. Also, why do they list Xavier as "Xavier-Ohio"? Is there another D1 Xavier that I am unaware of?
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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The Hamberdler

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #869 on: November 05, 2018, 04:47:56 PM »
They lose nobody and return a starter and top bench player from season long injuries. They were a top 75 team last season per KenPom. Assuming normal progression from their returning players, they should be an NCAA tournament team this season. #30 seems a tad high to me but not unreasonable. They strike me as a top 40 team.

Anytime you use a formula you are bound to get some wonky results. Nevada at 39, Cincy at 11, Auburn at 33, UCF at 17, Mississippi State/Alabama/LSU in the high 40s all seem out of place to me. Also, why do they list Xavier as "Xavier-Ohio"? Is there another D1 Xavier that I am unaware of?

Don't you think returning actual good players, or bench players, is more valuable than just returning "a" player? I mean, they are returning plenty of guys who have played, but that doesn't really say much about whether they are any good. Outside of Happ, they could put Milwaukee (UWM) on the front of their jerseys and nobody would really know the difference.

Hyperbole aside, that's really my point. There are plenty of returning players out there in the college basketball world, but expecting them to dominate at the high major level is something else entirely, isn't it? I understand your point but I still don't see why that logic doesn't apply to at least 100 other teams as well - plenty of teams returning a lot of players.

Also, they were 15-18. A lot of those might have been "good losses" but I still think it's pretty clear that it will take a dramatic improvement to make that a team that flirts throughout the year with being ranked.

Also my direction on this is "how they get to be mathematically this good" and not just a general discussion on how good they are. I'm not quite seeing what factors are calling for a major improvement.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 04:56:26 PM by D'Lo Brown »

Jay Bee

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #870 on: November 05, 2018, 05:17:11 PM »
Also my direction on this is "how they get to be mathematically this good" and not just a general discussion on how good they are. I'm not quite seeing what factors are calling for a major improvement.

- Trice and King were injured and unable to play most of the year.
- Davison played hurt all year (got surgery in the offseason). He'll be a sophomore
- Reuvers has considerable upside from where he was last year - look out
- Many others getting a year older. They were ranked #328 in the nation in experience last year. That'll change this year
- Lots of eFG% upside on both sides of the ball

Wouldn't surprise me to see them a very much improved team this year and back in the tourney.

Herman Cain

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #871 on: November 05, 2018, 05:44:16 PM »
- Trice and King were injured and unable to play most of the year.
- Davison played hurt all year (got surgery in the offseason). He'll be a sophomore
- Reuvers has considerable upside from where he was last year - look out
- Many others getting a year older. They were ranked #328 in the nation in experience last year. That'll change this year
- Lots of eFG% upside on both sides of the ball

Wouldn't surprise me to see them a very much improved team this year and back in the tourney.
I think it is better for MU in the medium and long term  if Wisconsin is back to being a tournament level team. Enhances the quality of our schedule and in general having two good teams in the state has positive PR impact. Our game with them is going to be hard fought no matter what, so I would prefer we get the benefit of them being a quality team.

TAMU Eagle

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #872 on: November 05, 2018, 06:48:27 PM »
Don't you think returning actual good players, or bench players, is more valuable than just returning "a" player? I mean, they are returning plenty of guys who have played, but that doesn't really say much about whether they are any good. Outside of Happ, they could put Milwaukee (UWM) on the front of their jerseys and nobody would really know the difference.

Hyperbole aside, that's really my point. There are plenty of returning players out there in the college basketball world, but expecting them to dominate at the high major level is something else entirely, isn't it? I understand your point but I still don't see why that logic doesn't apply to at least 100 other teams as well - plenty of teams returning a lot of players.

Also, they were 15-18. A lot of those might have been "good losses" but I still think it's pretty clear that it will take a dramatic improvement to make that a team that flirts throughout the year with being ranked.

Also my direction on this is "how they get to be mathematically this good" and not just a general discussion on how good they are. I'm not quite seeing what factors are calling for a major improvement.

They do return good players, they were just young last season. As Jay Bee points out, they were near the bottom of D1 in experience. A year older and a year healthier will help change a lot of that.

As for the math, you'd have to ask Sagarin about the nuts and bolts, or maybe one of the statheads around here could break down his formula, I'm only a dabbler. But there are formulas for projecting how much a player will produce based on past production and what year they are. Assuming normal development from all of Bucky's player's they should be a top 40ish type team. No worries, we should still wipe the floor with them at the Forum
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
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Its DJOver

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #873 on: November 05, 2018, 07:12:26 PM »
They do return good players, they were just young last season. As Jay Bee points out, they were near the bottom of D1 in experience. A year older and a year healthier will help change a lot of that.

As for the math, you'd have to ask Sagarin about the nuts and bolts, or maybe one of the statheads around here could break down his formula, I'm only a dabbler. But there are formulas for projecting how much a player will produce based on past production and what year they are. Assuming normal development from all of Bucky's player's they should be a top 40ish type team. No worries, we should still wipe the floor with them at the Forum
I don't think this is a real thing, players either exceed development, or underachieve.  How much do you think that extra year will help Charlie Thomas, or Alex Illikainen?  I would bet they're still glued to the pine.  They likely won't have Aleem Ford when we play them, and I have yet to see anything that would prove that Trice is a high major player (MSU would have been all over him if he was),  Anderson got plenty of time to impress coaches in high school when they were there to see Sam and Joey and he had no high major offers.  King could be decent, but he should be a big question mark coming off major knee surgery, and their Freshman class aint anything to get excited about.  Should they be better than last year?  Yes, but until they prove that they are, they shouldn't be a top 40 team.  This is why preseason rankings are so difficult and pointless.

Jay Bee

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Re: So....What are we ranked on Monday - 10/22/2018
« Reply #874 on: November 05, 2018, 07:16:39 PM »
I don't think this is a real thing, players either exceed development, or underachieve.  How much do you think that extra year will help Charlie Thomas, or Alex Illikainen?  I would bet they're still glued to the pine.  They likely won't have Aleem Ford when we play them, and I have yet to see anything that would prove that Trice is a high major player (MSU would have been all over him if he was),  Anderson got plenty of time to impress coaches in high school when they were there to see Sam and Joey and he had no high major offers.  King could be decent, but he should be a big question mark coming off major knee surgery, and their Freshman class aint anything to get excited about.  Should they be better than last year?  Yes, but until they prove that they are, they shouldn't be a top 40 team.  This is why preseason rankings are so difficult and pointless.

"Normal development" is most certainly a real thing. Freshman to sophomore jumps being the most notable on average (good news for MU as well as uw-madison). I think Reuvers will surprise people either this year or next. Alex Ill is better than he has shown thus far.. if he gets a chance, will he provide it? Dunno, but he's got lots of room to improve.

I'm not crownin their a$$, but the idea of them being a team that gets into the tourney this year isn't a crazy thought.