So....What are we ranked on Monday - 1/6/2025?

[shoothoops]

Bracketville 4 today.

[MU82]

NET is more significant for bracketology purposes.........AP has the best PR value

Agree with this. AP ranking is far more visible and available. Obviously, the NET ranking matters more when it comes to NCAA inclusion and seeding.

#16 seems reasonable. Right ahead of Baylor. Ahead of silliness that is Charleston and FAU. 3 behind X, which beat us and is ahead of us in the standings. 2 behind the Zags; would be great to pass them. A bazillion ahead of Madison, which is somehow still receiving votes.

[MarquetteMike1977]

Marquette #15 in Coaches Poll

[tower912]

So, just fine.

[brewcity77]

Didn't know that part existed on trank. But how is the #71 team in.... when there's 64 teams, and a bunch go to auto conference bids.

A few reasons. First, T-Rank isn't on the team sheet, so that 71 is meaningless when it comes to selection. Second, the two resume metrics (KPI & SOR) have the best inclusion correlation, and UW has an average rank of 29.0 there. Third, they are 6-5 vs Q1+2 with no bad losses. That's better than virtually anyone on the bubble. And last, none of their metrics (64 NET, 59 KP/BPI/SAG average) are bad enough to keep them out.

If the tourney was today, they are a lock to get in, though in the 9-11 range.

[MU82]

I don't agree with all of Seth Davis' poll (nor all of anyone's), but I thought he made some interesting points about metrics in his most recent column in The Athletic:

Finally, my rule of thumb on the metrics: They are useful, but not gospel. There are a bunch of different metrics, and they don't always say the same thing. Sometimes they do say the same thing but suggest an untenable conclusion. For example, Saint Mary's is No. 5 on BartTorvik, No. 6 in the NET, No. 6 in Sagarin, No. 7 on KenPom, and No. 13 in both KPI and BPI. Is anyone seriously suggesting this team that has just one Quad 1 win should be ranked ahead of Kansas, Arizona and Marquette? ...

Houston fans (and most of my fellow AP voters) were arguing that the Cougars should have been No. 1 because they were No. 1 in most every metric. Even after their loss at home to Temple on Sunday, Houston is No. 1 on KenPom. Does that mean I should still put it at No. 1 on my ballot? You can't make one case without the other. And I'm not making either. ...

Finally, how do you solve a problem like Charleston? The Cougars have now run their nation's-longest win streak to 20. Last week they were No. 18 in the AP poll, and I presume they could go higher. When it comes to evaluating mid-major teams with gaudy records, the metrics are especially useful. And in this case, they are quite clear: The Cougars are not a top-25 team. They're actually not even all that close. They have zero Quad 1 wins. The one Quad 1 game they played was at North Carolina (currently unranked), and they lost by 16. Their rankings range from 39 (KPI) to 74 (Sagarin). They are No. 73 on KenPom.

Compare that with Florida Atlantic, which is 2-0 in Quad 1 games (although it does have a Quad 2 loss at Ole Miss). The Owls are No. 18 in the NET, No. 22 on KPI, and No. 36 on KenPom. So why are they six spots behind Charleston in the AP poll? Or how about Boise State, which is between 21st-31st on the four major analytic sites? Why should the Broncos be unranked while Charleston is moving up the top 20?

This is not even to mention unranked power conference teams like Arkansas, West Virginia, Illinois, North Carolina and many others whose numbers are considerably stronger than Charleston's across the board. Believe me, I would love nothing more than to see the Cougars continue to win and advance deep into the NCAA Tournament — which could well happen. But at this moment, on this day, in my opinion, they are not a top 25 team.

https://theathletic.com/4115409/2023/01/23/college-basketball-rankings-purdue-uconn-charleston/

[TallTitan34]

Week 12 voter breakdown for Marquette.

[Its DJOver]

Thanks fellas.

Now that they've been updated, it's pretty wild to me that you have to get to the 14th ranked team in the country to have the first unanimous top 25 team.  No. 15-25 all have at least one voter that didn't think they were top 25.  I can understand splitting hairs between Purdue and Bama at 1, but how there are people that don't have us, or Auburn or Baylor is pretty surprising.   

[PointWarrior]

Week 12 voter breakdown for Marquette.

Percy Allen of the Seattle Times - if the collective scoop wants me to pay him a visit....

[The Sultan]

But i think it "could" be a big deal. Rankings, of any kind, always give a brand a credible reason to  promote themselves.  I know it's been brought up before, but top 25 puts you on sports center, is a reason that national media has to at the very least mention you, gives guys like Fanta a reason cover you more in-depth, etc.

If it were me, I'd be sending weekly scores and highlight reels to every person on that list, ensuring the MU brand is front and center every sunday night/monday morning.

So you want to use Marquette's limited marketing resources to inform the voters of how great Marquette basketball team is doing, so they move Marquette up from somewhere around the mid-teens to somewhere around 12 or so?

Don't get me wrong, I get why being ranked is important, but in the end we are only talking around pretty small benefits marginally.

[1SE]

Percy Allen of the Seattle Times - if the collective scoop wants me to pay him a visit....

This Percy Allen? @PercyAllen206

[cheebs09]

So you want to use Marquette's limited marketing resources to inform the voters of how great Marquette basketball team is doing, so they move Marquette up from somewhere around the mid-teens to somewhere around 12 or so?

Don't get me wrong, I get why being ranked is important, but in the end we are only talking around pretty small benefits marginally.

Plus, I doubt Percy is going to respond well to someone from MU sending him a note saying please rank us next time.

[MUDPT]

A few reasons. First, T-Rank isn't on the team sheet, so that 71 is meaningless when it comes to selection. Second, the two resume metrics (KPI & SOR) have the best inclusion correlation, and UW has an average rank of 29.0 there. Third, they are 6-5 vs Q1+2 with no bad losses. That's better than virtually anyone on the bubble. And last, none of their metrics (64 NET, 59 KP/BPI/SAG average) are bad enough to keep them out.

If the tourney was today, they are a lock to get in, though in the 9-11 range.

UW's win over us is going to get them in the tournament. Sort of like the US beating Panama? allowing Mexico to make the 2010 World Cup.

[barfolomew]

Plus, I doubt Percy is going to respond well to someone from MU sending him a note saying please rank us next time.

I was going to egg Percy's house, but they're too expensive.

[PointWarrior]

Plus, I doubt Percy is going to respond well to someone from MU sending him a note saying please rank us next time.

funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool

https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias

[CountryRoads]

A few reasons. First, T-Rank isn't on the team sheet, so that 71 is meaningless when it comes to selection. Second, the two resume metrics (KPI & SOR) have the best inclusion correlation, and UW has an average rank of 29.0 there. Third, they are 6-5 vs Q1+2 with no bad losses. That's better than virtually anyone on the bubble. And last, none of their metrics (64 NET, 59 KP/BPI/SAG average) are bad enough to keep them out.

If the tourney was today, they are a lock to get in, though in the 9-11 range.

Yeah, they will just make it in I think. I don't know how much leeway the committee has nowadays with the "only 2 losses with Wahl" argument anymore, but that would be another thing possibly going for them.

[DoctorV]

funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool

https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias

Maybe he's upset he's a poor man's Sacar Anim

[StillAWarrior]

funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool

https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias

If Percy Allen is biased in favor of Mississippi State, why and he hell is he the only voter who doesn't have MU ranked. I guess it's his bias against Baylor. Interesting.

[Its DJOver]

funny - you can click into each pollster's details and it computes teams they are biased for and against. pretty cool

https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/percy-allen/bias

He's shown his incompetence before.  Voting UConn no. 1 in week 8 was fine, almost half of the pollsters did.  Keeping them there week 9 after they lost when there was still an undefeated Purdue team out there was criminal.

[PointWarrior]

check this pollster's biases - he must still taste Vander pissing in his cheerios...


https://collegepolltracker.com/basketball/pollster/justin-jackson/bias

[Spotcheck Billy]

Journal Sentinel beat writer Ben Steele voted MU at No. 14 in his ballot

[lawdog77]

I was going to egg Percy's house, but they're too expensive.

Was it wrong of me to send an email to his HR department?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Was it wrong of me to send an email to his HR department?

It's acceptable if you can pair it with some holocaust-denier plagiarism.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Winning at DePaul, even dominantly, won't impress voters. But we should move up due to attrition ahead of us:

#15 Auburn: lost twice to unranked teams
#14 Gonzaga: Yet to play, but if they struggle against #167 Portland, we could jump them
#13 Xavier: Lost by 17 at Creighton, did win at UConn but I think we pass them
#12 Iowa State: Currently losing by 18 to unranked Mizzou with 2 minutes left, did beat #5 Kansas State
#9 Kansas: Lost at Baylor, if they also lose at Kentucky tonight could be enough to pass them
#8 UCLA: Lost by 13 to unranked USC, don't think it'll be enough to pass
#5 Kansas State: Lost at Iowa State, if they lose to Florida tonight they should drop below us (their metrics are bad and I think voters will drop them at first sign of trouble)

#6 Arizona and #11 TCU are both favorites in their games tonight. Losses by either could be enough. #10 Texas expected to lose to Tennesse, unless its a massacre don't see that dropping them enough to be passed.

I think we are definitely jumping to at least #13. I think #8 is the absolute max but only possible if Kansas State, Arizona, Kansas, and Kentucky all lose and Gonzaga struggles against Portland.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

I'm saying we get up to 12.