Follow up on Tribune's assault story

[cheebs09]

Ners, I think you are mixing the two incidents. The one in February that was in the Chicago Tribune awhile ago they had a previous relationship and changed her mind during the act.

Sultan, I don't know what you expect regarding speculation. It's a message board and that's what people do, a Marquette basketball message board no less. Not saying it is right to say some of the things that have been said about the girl, but it is just kind of the nature of the beast.

[GGGG]

Sultan - We know that the girl had a previous sexual relationship with the player, and began consensually.  We know alcohol was involved.  I don't understand why you take what you read in the Chicago Tribune/Journal Sentinel (girls story only) as Gospel.  Have we ever heard the player's account of what happened?  No - yet MU and the basketball program are getting put through the ringer in the press.  Pardon me if I want to defend the team and university a little bit.

On another note, you don't know any more than I do that what the girl alleges has any truth to it..yet you want to seemingly take her at her word....

What I find absolutely amazing about you is that you don't seem to know how to read.

Tell me....where have I said that I believe the girl's story?  I want you to find one sentence I have written on this subject over the past few months where I said that I believed her.  Throughout this entire thing I have said two things:

1. MU's internal policy was wrong.  It has since been corrected...which is a good thing.

2. There are only handful of people who actually know what occured that night.  Those people do not include the authorities, and they most certainly do not include you or I.  Therefore I restrain from making assumptions.  Somthing you fail to do. 

[Lennys Tap]

Yet that doesn't stop you from making assumptions about her actions and her story.  Wow...

Well, you're either calling "pathetic" or doing the "wow..." thing or typing BIG LETTERS or insulting me generally. Since you're channeling your inner Chicos why not throw in a "sigh" for good measure.

I'm assuming you read the article in today's Chicago Tribune. Her own story (no assumptions on my part) is that she was raped in one of the bedrooms at a party. After the rape, she says she left the room, had a couple of drinks and danced with another guy and then went into another bedroom with three guys where she was again assaulted. Now, one more time, I don't know what happened in that dorm room. But since her story is on the record I don't think it's unfair to judge it as plausible or not. I can't imagine anyone acting like that after a rape. Evidently you can. I guess that makes me pathetic.

[GGGG]

Lennys, you are certainly changing your tune.  What I found pathetic is your judgement that she "likes her status of celebrity/victim."  You seem to have dropped that line.

As for your latest post, I don't know enough about rape to know whether or not the girl's situation was pausible or not.

[Lennys Tap]

Ners, I think you are mixing the two incidents. The one in February that was in the Chicago Tribune awhile ago they had a previous relationship and changed her mind during the act.

Sultan, I don't know what you expect regarding speculation. It's a message board and that's what people do, a Marquette basketball message board no less. Not saying it is right to say some of the things that have been said about the girl, but it is just kind of the nature of the beast.

You're correct, Cheebs. Ners is talking about the February incident. The University conducted an invetigation of the October incident just after it occured and concluded no sexual assault took place. The athletes were, however, judged to be guilty of sexual harassment. It's possible Sultan is also confusing the two incidents as he has been adamant that MU had made no judgement on whether a rape took place in October. They did make a judgement and that judgement was no.

[Lennys Tap]

Lennys, you are certainly changing your tune.  What I found pathetic is your judgement that she "likes her status of celebrity/victim."  You seem to have dropped that line.

As for your latest post, I don't know enough about rape to know whether or not the girl's situation was pausible or not.

2002 asked a hypothetical - "What would a woman gain by making a false claim of rape?" I provided a POSSIBLE answer - that if someone is ashamed of their actions they might deal with it by pointing the finger elsewhere and changing their own status to victim. I'm not saying I know for a fact that's what happened here - only that it's plausible. It's also plausible that she likes her status as celebrity/victim. It's also plausible it's about money. Lots oaf possibilities. You disagree. Fair enough, but I don't know why you felt the need to go off on me.

[GGGG]

You're correct, Cheebs. Ners is talking about the February incident. The University conducted an invetigation of the October incident just after it occured and concluded no sexual assault took place. The athletes were, however, judged to be guilty of sexual harassment. It's possible Sultan is also confusing the two incidents as he has been adamant that MU had made no judgement on whether a rape took place in October. They did make a judgement and that judgement was no.

Well, because it was a he said / she said.  I am not mixing up the two incidents.

[GGGG]

Fair enough, but I don't know why you felt the need to go off on me.

Oh how cute!  Do you "like your status as a victim" on MUScoop?

[NersEllenson]

Ners, I think you are mixing the two incidents. The one in February that was in the Chicago Tribune awhile ago they had a previous relationship and changed her mind during the act.

Sultan, I don't know what you expect regarding speculation. It's a message board and that's what people do, a Marquette basketball message board no less. Not saying it is right to say some of the things that have been said about the girl, but it is just kind of the nature of the beast.

Thanks for clarification - so this latest Chicago Trib story is on the incident from October? Sultan's below statement addresses my confusion on the topic - I skimmed through the article rapidly...as it came off as a hatchet job on MU....was this perhaps a 1-year anniversary story, commemorating the horrific night for that girl last October??  I mean why write an article on something that happened a year ago??  Would not surprise me if some DePaul folks were behind this...trying to give MU a black eye as MU has been kicking their A$$ in hoops and recruiting for roughly 20 years now...

What I find absolutely amazing about you is that you don't seem to know how to read.

[MUMBA]

Would not surprise me if some DePaul folks were behind this...trying to give MU a black eye as MU has been kicking their A$$ in hoops and recruiting for roughly 20 years now...

Most of the wild-a$$ speculation in this thread upsets me.  This just made me laugh.  I trust this was not intended seriously?

[VanderBabyBlue]

Most of the wild-a$$ speculation in this thread upsets me.  This just made me laugh.  I trust this was not intended seriously?

If it wasn't DePaul administration at the very least I suspect it was UW girls planted by Bo.

[NersEllenson]

Most of the wild-a$$ speculation in this thread upsets me.  This just made me laugh.  I trust this was not intended seriously?

Just floated it as a potential reason for an article to come out FRONT PAGE on the Chicago Tribune about an incident that happened 1 YEAR AGO.  What's the motive - and is such a story truly front page worthy on the Chicago Tribune?? 

Perhaps it is just journalists trying to gain some measure of fame, acclaim, etc - but it sure seems peculiar to me for this story to hit 1 year after it occurred.

On another note, I don't believe these types of articles hurt MU's recruiting, but there are some who feel it does - and perhaps there are a some people in the DePaul/Chicago community who think it might hurt MU's reputation within Chicago/recruiting.  We have posters on this board who think this stuff hurts MU's recruiting...so it is not a stretch to think some idiots in the DePaul/Chicago community might think so as well...

[Pakuni]

Just floated it as a potential reason for an article to come out FRONT PAGE on the Chicago Tribune about an incident that happened 1 YEAR AGO.  What's the motive - and is such a story truly front page worthy on the Chicago Tribune??  ..

Ners ... I know two of the reporters on this story, one of them fairly well. They are respected professionals and in no way doing this on behalf of DePaul, or for any other reason than it's a good, legitimate news story. The Trib has been working on a series of stories about how universities handle sex assault accusations on campus (it's one of their Pulitzer projects, I imagine) and Marquette, through nobody's fault but its own, has made itself a very easy target. Do I agree with everything about the story's presentation? Nope. But in all reality, there's no way to present this fairly for MU. Any defense they have would almost by necessity present the accuser in a bad light, and for political/PR reasons they can't do that. Better off just offering a mea culpa and move on.
And certainly none of the accused is going to offer up his side of the story, and forever be labeled a sex offender in the process by the large number of people out there eager to embrace the stereotype (sometimes deserved stereotype) of the out-of-control college athlete. That may be my biggest problem with the Trib story ... it plays to those stereotypes (i.e. the dangerous (black) college basketball player abusing the poor little (white) suburban girl).
It sucks for MU and the players, but actions have consequences. While their actions may not have been criminal, they were criminally stupid and this will stand as a harsh lesson for them.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I agree with this assessment Pukini, however, there is absolutely no "update" to this story other than the alleged victim hired a civil lawyer (and Buzz hired Boyle for a speeding ticket), who is quoted extensively throughout on record and who provided much of the background or access to her side of the story. I also assume her legal team now has access to the Milwaukee DA's report (in preparation for civill proceedings)--one where no charges were filed--which it appeared they shared to the reporters.  Her lawyer does not want this to go to trial because her story has exposure (she will have the burden of proof), but he rather wants to force MU into a settlement.  Smart stuff by the lawyer, crappy journalism other than the sensationalism--they were played.

Perhaps a better, more objective "update" would have been a story on the many other MU students who alleged abuse--with parts of this story--over the ten years that the University failed to follow the law. Or how universities, like MU are changing to address these concerns. Or maybe a better "update" would be to note how alcohol is a major contributing factor to these types of cases, and that the MU Public Safety and Milwaukee Police failed to charge her for underage drinking which she freely admitted (and others), and how the Illinois Secretary failed to revoke her driver's license as a result. These journalists chose a different route, and frankly they did no benefit to victims of sexual assault in the process.

[Hoopaloop]

Just floated it as a potential reason for an article to come out FRONT PAGE on the Chicago Tribune about an incident that happened 1 YEAR AGO.  What's the motive - and is such a story truly front page worthy on the Chicago Tribune??  

Perhaps it is just journalists trying to gain some measure of fame, acclaim, etc - but it sure seems peculiar to me for this story to hit 1 year after it occurred.

On another note, I don't believe these types of articles hurt MU's recruiting, but there are some who feel it does - and perhaps there are a some people in the DePaul/Chicago community who think it might hurt MU's reputation within Chicago/recruiting.  We have posters on this board who think this stuff hurts MU's recruiting...so it is not a stretch to think some idiots in the DePaul/Chicago community might think so as well...

Conspiracy theories still alive and well with you.  Always the woman's fault, couldn't possibly be the team or the university administration at fault. 

[Hoopaloop]

Well, you're either calling "pathetic" or doing the "wow..." thing or typing BIG LETTERS or insulting me generally. Since you're channeling your inner Chicos why not throw in a "sigh" for good measure.

I'm assuming you read the article in today's Chicago Tribune. Her own story (no assumptions on my part) is that she was raped in one of the bedrooms at a party. After the rape, she says she left the room, had a couple of drinks and danced with another guy and then went into another bedroom with three guys where she was again assaulted. Now, one more time, I don't know what happened in that dorm room. But since her story is on the record I don't think it's unfair to judge it as plausible or not. I can't imagine anyone acting like that after a rape. Evidently you can. I guess that makes me pathetic.

There is a reason why 15 to 20 of us rarely post here any longer, as commented in the bannings thread on the other Scoop board.  Nothing changes with several of you.  Some folks were banned that added some value on occasion and yet the same few guys that were constantly involved in the sniping, you in particular, remain to soil this board.

Sultan's comments are right on target. 

After reading the Tribune the other day and seeing my alma mater on the front page (again), it comes as no surprise to me to see so many posters trashing the young lady, putting the blame on her, absolving the players and university of everything. It really is a site to see.  One of my favorites was the analysis of how her social status with her friends proves her guilt.  Yes, because 18 and 19 year old kids and how they choose to hang out with others should be the standard by which we judge a person.

[Lennys Tap]

Sultan, I don't know what you expect regarding speculation. It's a message board and that's what people do, a Marquette basketball message board no less. Not saying it is right to say some of the things that have been said about the girl, but it is just kind of the nature of the beast.

Sultan has nearly 6000 posts. He has "speculated" and offered opinions based on his own (sometimes accurate, sometimes not) reading of the "facts" more often than anyone on Scoop. Yet he feels that reading, examining and drawing any conclusions from the young woman's own statement is out of bounds. I guess this means that in the future he'll limit his commentary on all topics to instances where he has been "in the room".

[Silkk the Shaka]

Weird that Hoopaloop a.k.a. Chicos decides to resurface to comment on this thread

[tower912]

He ain't chicos.   He just wishes he was.      As to this story, I don't know what happened.   I know one version.   Regardless of where the truth lies, the university handled it poorly and has learned from its mistakes.    Not MU's finest hour,  rampant dumbness by all involved. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

Sultan has nearly 6000 posts. He has "speculated" and offered opinions based on his own (sometimes accurate, sometimes not) reading of the "facts" more often than anyone on Scoop. Yet he feels that reading, examining and drawing any conclusions from the young woman's own statement is out of bounds. I guess this means that in the future he'll limit his commentary on all topics to instances where he has been "in the room".

I wish.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Would not surprise me if some DePaul folks were behind this...trying to give MU a black eye as MU has been kicking their A$$ in hoops and recruiting for roughly 20 years now...

This is actually something I never even considered, and it's a great point.

In fact, what do we even know about this girl? Is it possible that she was planted on campus to perform this whole charade?

The lengths people will go to hurt MU know no bounds.

This whole situation reeks of either:
- DePaul
- ND
- Wisco
Or dare I say, The Tan One.

Maybe some sort of combination effort between the 4 of them to hold Marquette hoops back. It's like SPECTTRE*, but instead of world domination, their goal is to simply dominate Marquette.

*Special Executive for Counter-intelligence, Tanning, Tweating, Revenge and Extortion

[brewcity77]

Weird that Hoopaloop a.k.a. Chicos decides to resurface to comment on this thread

If he were CBB, he'd have 3,000 posts by now.

[MUBurrow]

nm

[Skatastrophy]

nm

This is the most intelligent thing posted in this thread. 

[GGGG]

Sultan, I don't know what you expect regarding speculation. It's a message board and that's what people do, a Marquette basketball message board no less. Not saying it is right to say some of the things that have been said about the girl, but it is just kind of the nature of the beast.

I'm not saying it isn't the nature of the beast.  I just find it disgusting that people jump to conclusions that she is simply "a woman scorned," or that she "likes being the victim."  I guess on a men's basketball board, I think discussing the nature and motives of a potential rape victim is a little unseemly.  If the mods are going to let it happen, that is fine by me.  But that means I most certainly will let my opinion be known.