Follow up on Tribune's assault story

[bilsu]

I am a litttle confused. I think this article is on a different women, than the one that was in the Tribune in spring. I thought the Spring article one was the February escapade and that women left the school. This one seems to be on one of the two women involved in the October escapade and in that case both are still at MU. Has the Tribune actually written on two different women or am I off base on this?

[GGGG]

I felt the reference to the school rallying behind the basketball team was included to further the inference that the basketball program "runs" (for lack of a better term) the university.

Oh I didn't read it that way at all.  I don't think people would find it over-the-top for a school to celebrate its athletic achievements.  I just think they were painting a picture of why she felt isolated.

[MerrittsMustache]

Oh I didn't read it that way at all.  I don't think people would find it over-the-top for a school to celebrate its athletic achievements.  I just think they were painting a picture of why she felt isolated.

She was as an outcast while the rest of the school celebrated the students who were responsible for her isolation. That was my interpretation - could be overthinking it and giving the writers too much credit though.

[StillWarriors]

I am a litttle confused. I think this article is on a different women, than the one that was in the Tribune in spring. I thought the Spring article one was the February escapade and that women left the school. This one seems to be on one of the two women involved in the October escapade and in that case both are still at MU. Has the Tribune actually written on two different women or am I off base on this?

If I recall correctly, the Halloween incident referenced in today's article was somewhat brushed aside in the end on this board by inferences it was more of inappropriate comments and some dirty dancing. The detailed account in today's story is much more than that, and does not reflect well at all. Add the rape allegation in Feb, and I certainly understand why the current female students I have contact with say they would never go to Humphrey based on the reputation/stories that are out there. Whether every aspect of the allegations are true or not (I certainly understand there is room for a lot of gray and blurred lines when you throw in alcohol and the fact that these guys are quite used to girls throwing themselves at them voluntarily), I would certainly hope these guys have learned a lesson. It is embarrassing to see MU portrayed in this light.

[radome]

I love Marquette and I bleed Blue and Gold but jeez, men having been taking advantage of women from my earliest days. Having worked my whole life with leading the 18-25 age group, I can attest the pain that these women (and sometimes men) endure. There is no gain for the victim to make this up ... reporting it is unusual and courageous.

I just hope that they all heal soon and continue to recover.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

College rape accusations are about as reliable as a junkie on payday.

Oh come on.

A "junkie on a payday" would theoretically do anything for $ and/or their next high, right? They would lie, cheat, steal to gain what they want.

What does this girl have to gain by making up a rape accusation?

I won't pretend to know what happened, but to write it off like she made it all up to gain something is cold. Really cold, old man.

[StillAWarrior]

I'm having an awfully hard time squaring some of the attitudes/comments in this thread with some of the attitudes/comments exhibited in a thread about an alleged assault at Notre Dame.

[Lennys Tap]

What does this girl have to gain by making up a rape accusation?

First of all, let's examine the rape accusation. Accordinging to the accuser, she was at one point during a party trapped in a bedroom and forced to perform oral sex on one of the athletes. After leaving the room in which she was raped, she had a dance and a couple more drinks with another athlete and subsequently went into another bedroom with three other athletes.

Can't one reasonably argue that it's unlikely that a rape victim's next moves at a party would be drinks, dancing and another trip to the bedroom with her tormentor's friends?  What does she gain by pointing the finger of blame at someone other than herself? Exemption from responsibility for her actions and the status (almost martyrdom) that victimhood provides. The fact that she stayed at MU (even though she claims her friends abandoned her and she was totally isolated) indcates to me she likes her status of celebrity/victim.

[Pakuni]

Oh come on.

A "junkie on a payday" would theoretically do anything for $ and/or their next high, right? They would lie, cheat, steal to gain what they want.

What does this girl have to gain by making up a rape accusation?

I won't pretend to know what happened, but to write it off like she made it all up to gain something is cold. Really cold, old man.

I, like everyone else here, have no idea where the truth lies in this whole mess. I'd suspect (at the risk of incurring the Wrath of Sultan) that both sides largely believe their account of what happened and the truth sits somewhere in between. Unfortunately, the circumstances exist where only one side of the story can be publicized. Too bad, but that's the way it goes.

All that said, it's naive to suggest the accuser here has nothing to gain. It's especially naive given that she's hired Bob Bazier to represent her. I know Bob personally and professionally, and he's one of the best personal injury lawyers in the Chicago area. You don't hire a guy like him to speak on your behalf to a newspaper. You hire him because you're going to sue the cr*p out of somebody.

None of that means she's lying. But it's foolish to pretend that she's talking now out of some noble quest for justice and to stand up for others. She, in fact, has a lot to gain.

[GGGG]

I'm certainly not an expert on the matter, buy my guess is that the number of women who make up rape allegations to garner "martyrdom" status make up about 1% of all rape allegations.  And this pales in comparison to the number of rapes that aren't reported.

So no, I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  Its sounds mostly that you are making sh*t up to exonerate the players.

[hoops12]

I wrote all the journalist that put together this article. Do I feel bad for the young lady? Yes! Should she have gone about things differently? Yes! Should the university gone about things differently? Yes! Should some athletes be held accountable for their actions? Yes!

I just feel this article stretches comments, and opinions into what they would consider facts. The main issue that I have with the article is the fact that the Tribune seems to have little to go on, and whatever they don't know they make assumptions. To imply that Marquette University protects its athletes, but not the thousands of students that attend the university is a very reckless comment. This is one young ladies story, and others involved interpreted the situation differently. Was there wrongdoing? It sounds like there was. To what extent? Who knows. There is no way anyone really knows how this all occurred.

Since this article can't name specific athletes who may have been involved, every athlete at the Marquette is technically targeted in this article. They mention the basketball team's success, which somewhat implicates the fact that it was basketball players involved. The Universities hands are tied because there was no law broken (no arrest) therefore the university has to follow privacy laws, and can't really explain themselves effectively.

In other words, what was gained by writing this article? A woman's voice, and her recollection of the night get to be on the headlines of a major newspaper. As for Marquette, they are dragged through the coals. They can't really say anything because of laws that protect everyone involved, and so the journalist determine that Marquette is guilty because they are not speaking on the issue.

The girl whose life has been turned upside down returns to the university where this all occurred. She believes that the students don't like her, and that the administration had looked the other way in favor of the athletes, but she feels the need to return. What?

I feel bad for anyone that has been harmed or hurt by this incident. The plain and simple fact is, I don't know what really happened. What I do know for sure is that this young lady has had her voice heard, changes have been made, and she is getting help and a great deal of attention. As for Marquette University, as a whole, they have really been the target of unsubstantiated comments, and the inability to respond to accusations because of the way the law is written. This has been a loss-loss for all parties involved, with Marquette University getting the short end of the stick in my opinion.

I hope this young lady can go on with her schooling, and her life, without this incident emotionally hurting her for the remainder of her life.

[Lennys Tap]

I'm certainly not an expert on the matter, buy my guess is that the number of women who make up rape allegations to garner "martyrdom" status make up about 1% of all rape allegations.  And this pales in comparison to the number of rapes that aren't reported.

So no, I don't think you can reasonably argue that.  Its sounds mostly that you are making sh*t up to exonerate the players.

What's your "guess" as to the % of the rape cases in which the victim escapes her tormentor only to start dancing and drinking with one of his buddies?

I think the players acted like ass#@les. Her story of rape, though, didn't pass muster to anyone she told it to other than a PI attorney. It doesn't with me either.

[GGGG]

What's your "guess" as to the % of the rape cases in which the victim escapes her tormentor only to start dancing and drinking with one of his buddies?

No idea.  

I think the players acted like ass#@les. Her story of rape, though, didn't pass muster to anyone she told it to other than a PI attorney. It doesn't with me either.

Pathetic that you would jump to such conclusions knowing as little about the case as you do.  Really pathetic...  

And it wasn't that her story of rape didn't pass muster, it was that any criminal evidence of rape didn't exist by the time it was reported.  That doesn't mean that people, including MU officials, Public Safety and the MPD didn't believe her.  Just that it couldn't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

And believe me, I am not saying that anyone raped her.  All I know is, I most certainly would not drag people through the mud on either side based on my limited knowledge of what went on.  People jumping to two-bit conclusions anonymously on a message board is about as sad as it gets.

[MuMark]

1%?

doubtful

None of us know what happened but there is certainly a reasonable chance that it didn't happen the way she said.

Depends who you want to believe as to how often the reports are false

http://www.mediaradar.org/research_on_false_rape_allegations.php

http://www.theforensicexaminer.com/archive/spring09/15/

http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/04/07/do-women-lie-about-rape/

http://www.mens-rights.net/law/falseaccusations/rape.htm

[GGGG]

1%?

doubtful

None of us know what happened but thier is certainly a reasonable chance that it didn't happen the way she said.

Hold on....I didn't say that it was a 1% chance that the allegations were false....either because the victim was lying or that she mis-remembers the truth.  I said that my guess was a 1% chance that the victim was attempting to attain "martyrdom" status by telling her story.

[Skatastrophy]

It still creeps me out that Buzz held a team meeting to circle the wagons before he allowed the players to be interviewed by DPS or anyone else.

I just hope that crap like this never happens again, and I hope the girl(s) involved get their lives back in order.

[MUMBA]

Hoops12, i think your frustrations are shared with a lot of posters in this room.  The details of the incident are so murky, it stains the athletes, the woman, and the university.  The woman wants justice.  The players want exoneration.  The University wants anyone who will listen to know that their internal investigation, no matter how hokey the process, was legit and not biased.  

This is precisely why these incidents should be treated as a justice matter (where the truth is sought) as opposed to a PR matter (where damage is minimized).  Had the University pursued justice it would have been noisy in the media, but no one would accuse them of obscuring the truth.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

First of all, let's examine the rape accusation. Accordinging to the accuser, she was at one point during a party trapped in a bedroom and forced to perform oral sex on one of the athletes. After leaving the room in which she was raped, she had a dance and a couple more drinks with another athlete and subsequently went into another bedroom with three other athletes.

Can't one reasonably argue that it's unlikely that a rape victim's next moves at a party would be drinks, dancing and another trip to the bedroom with her tormentor's friends?  What does she gain by pointing the finger of blame at someone other than herself? Exemption from responsibility for her actions and the status (almost martyrdom) that victimhood provides. The fact that she stayed at MU (even though she claims her friends abandoned her and she was totally isolated) indcates to me she likes her status of celebrity/victim.

I hear you, but from my point of view, reporting an assault, going through the public safety interviews, police interviews, questions, rumors, looks from classmates, etc. is a lot of work, and hugely intimidating. Thus, a lot of assaults go unreported.

The idea that a girl would go through all of that in order to martyr herself/spite a college hoops player is a big jump for me.

I know people are crazy, so I'm sure it has happened at some point in history, but Occams razor tells me that the odds are pretty low in this case. These are not pro athletes that can/will pay her for her silence and/or settlement.

I can't/won't speculate on the specifics (I don't know them), but my response was to the notion that she should be written off like a "Junkie on a Payday".

That is a misguided notion in my opinion.

[marquette09]

"and Marquette-centric blogs ridiculed her"

Stop this banter, the Tribune is on to us

[Clam Crowder]

I am sure the girl reads MUscoop...one of these guys has bitter feelings about Marquette. Seriously this is one year later. We have made big changes to the way this is handled, and the players went through a court process because of it. This to me is starting to border on libel.

[MuMark]

Ok sorry I misinterpreted what you posted

Hold on....I didn't say that it was a 1% chance that the allegations were false....either because the victim was lying or that she mis-remembers the truth.  I said that my guess was a 1% chance that the victim was attempting to attain "martyrdom" status by telling her story.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm having an awfully hard time squaring some of the attitudes/comments in this thread with some of the attitudes/comments exhibited in a thread about an alleged assault at Notre Dame.

From a psychological standpoint, the Marquette players are our "friends." We know them. We cheer for them. We care about them. For most of us on here, Marquette was our "home" for 4 years. We're proud to say we graduated from there and are proud of the education we got there. When "outsiders," like Tribune journalists, show up and start bad mouthing are friends and our home, it's human nature to go on the defensive. If people had actual friends involved in a situation like this, they would probably defend their friends and discredit the accuser even without having all of the facts. On the other hand, if their friend was the accuser, they'd be more likely to defend her and stand by her...unless, of course, they don't believe her account.

[Blue Horseshoe]

This to me is starting to border on libel.

Are you an attorney? Doubtful the Trib would proceed with an article like this would out consulting their legal council.

[Hards Alumni]

Are you an attorney? Doubtful the Trib would proceed with an article like this would out consulting their legal council.

Really?  You don't have to be an attorney to know what libel is.

Criteria for libel

 

There are three criteria that must be proved in order to satisfy a court that defamation exists.
They are:

 

1. The statement must be defamatory. Such a statement will be regarded despite any
intention of the author. A statement may alternatively give rise to a secondary meaning apart from
any first sight innocent interpretation. This type of statement is known as innuendo when
considered together with additional or extrinsic facts that is known to the reader.

2. The statement must refer to the aggrieved party either directly or indirectly. It is
therefore a requirement that the one who claims defamation must be able to point to their
identification within the publication.

3. The final requirement is to show that publication was exposed to a third party. There
are various interpretations that assist in identifying publication to a third party, none of which
blur an ordinary common sense meaning.

That said, it clearly fails criteria #2.  You'd never be able to prove it in court.

[Skatastrophy]

That said, it clearly fails criteria #2.  You'd never be able to prove it in court.

The MU Athletics department is the aggrieved party here, isn't it?