Futbol Talk

[JoeSmith1721]

What an infuriating game, the US has actually been the better team by far and are down 0-2.

[jesmu84]

Hey. Can someone remind me why Dempsey should be the striker in a 4-3-3? Strange how ineffective the US looks with him there just like Seattle looks with him there

[jesmu84]

Gotta go big in the second half. Nagbe for Jones. Pulisic for Dempsey.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?

Had to cancel.....bad day today....so we didn't get on plane and didn't attend.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bradley looked awful...again.  IMO.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Bradley looked awful...again.  IMO.

He wasn't good. They had a segment tonight on their hour long show after the game (which was quite good) where they showed how Bacca was basically a spy on Bradley the entire game, thats just great coaching by Pekerman. If other coaches were smart, that's how they should play the US.

The US needs to adjust and not be stuck and clueless when option 1 doesn't work out, and that's on Klinsmann.

[jesmu84]

Not a bad game from the US decent position and didn't give up any bad turnovers or counter atracks (just want to clarify I have nothing against the US) but Colombia is just much more talented team with James, Cuadrado, Cardona, Baccarin and Ospina. Btw, Cameron sounded really whiny in his post game interview. Give your opponent some credit.

One thing I really loved from a Colombian fan standpoint is the back 4 of Colombia. I was admittedly very worried with no Armero or Zuniga but they played really well, I really love what Murillo does and their two young CDMs were a pleasant surprise because I've never seen them play.

Question for Chicos, what was the fan distribution there?

"Not a bad game from the US". Lol. Solid analysis.

[brewcity77]

Jermaine Jones was just terrible. Baffling to put an old DMF whose game was never pace out on the wing. Other than winning the near corner free kick, I'm not sure he had a single positive offensive touch.

The changes also came too late. Nagbe and Pulisic should have been warming up at the 50 minute mark and in by 55.

The corner goal was disappointing. Cameron completely lost his man. Can't allow that free a shot on a corner. The penalty...well, what can you do? I agreed with the penalty call, Yedlin never should have had that hand out.

Above all, we looked slow in attack. Jones, Zardes, Bedoya, Dempsey, just not enough pace. And Bradley's passing accuracy was off the mark, which led to too many turnovers. Also just too complacent for too long. The start of the second half was telling. Down 2-0, we needed to come out on fire. Instead, Colombia looked more likely to make it 3-0 than we did to pull one back. I've felt for a long time JK lost the pulse of this team. Nothing tonight convinced me otherwise. Now Costa Rica is must win territory, and hoping for a draw today.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

"Not a bad game from the US". Lol. Solid analysis.

I'm a Colombia fan. I know very little about the US National team.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What an infuriating game, the US has actually been the better team by far and are down 0-2.

Do you really believe this?

[jesmu84]

Jermaine Jones was just terrible. Baffling to put an old DMF whose game was never pace out on the wing. Other than winning the near corner free kick, I'm not sure he had a single positive offensive touch.

The changes also came too late. Nagbe and Pulisic should have been warming up at the 50 minute mark and in by 55.

The corner goal was disappointing. Cameron completely lost his man. Can't allow that free a shot on a corner. The penalty...well, what can you do? I agreed with the penalty call, Yedlin never should have had that hand out.

Above all, we looked slow in attack. Jones, Zardes, Bedoya, Dempsey, just not enough pace. And Bradley's passing accuracy was off the mark, which led to too many turnovers. Also just too complacent for too long. The start of the second half was telling. Down 2-0, we needed to come out on fire. Instead, Colombia looked more likely to make it 3-0 than we did to pull one back. I've felt for a long time JK lost the pulse of this team. Nothing tonight convinced me otherwise. Now Costa Rica is must win territory, and hoping for a draw today.

Here's the real problem. Once again, playing players out of position. Zardes and Wood are NOT wingers. They are forwards, just like Dempsey. I like the USMNT in a 4-3-3. But you need to play guys in their natural (or even club) positions. Fabian should have been a winger. Wood should have been the striker. Granted, the US team outside of Fabian and Yedlin doesn't have a lot of speed. But once guys are playing where they are most effective, it would totally change the dynamics. Klins absolutely screwed up his front 3 all night. That also hurt Bradley (though he was plenty bad on his own) as he didn't have the outlets he normally does.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Do you really believe this?

I initially thought that too just because they maintained possession but they really didn't have any great chances besides the two Dempsey free kicks. Possession is great, and not turning the ball over is great, but kinda worthless if you don't do anything with it. That's not to say Colombia was peppering Guzan with shots, but they made the most of the opportunities.

Also, what I notice from here is that you guys say the US always plays people out of position, Colmbia had everyone in their natural position with the exception of Cardona. I really think the US needs a true center forward to, doesn't have to be a star, but someone who is a ball hawk and can finish chances.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I initially thought that too just because they maintained possession but they really didn't have any great chances besides the two Dempsey free kicks. Possession is great, and not turning the ball over is great, but kinda worthless if you don't do anything with it. That's not to say Colombia was peppering Guzan with shots, but they made the most of the opportunities.

Also, what I notice from here is that you guys say the US always plays people out of position, Colmbia had everyone in their natural position with the exception of Cardona. I really think the US needs a true center forward to, doesn't have to be a star, but someone who is a ball hawk and can finish chances.

Colombia also let them monkey around with the ball at times.  If the game was tied, or Colombia was losing, then we would have seen a more aggressive play by Los Cafeteros. It wasn't needed.   

[jesmu84]

Colombia also let them monkey around with the ball at times.  If the game was tied, or Colombia was losing, then we would have seen a more aggressive play by Los Cafeteros. It wasn't needed.

Yup. Spot on.

After the first Colombia goal, they let the US do whatever they wanted until the attacking third. And the US couldn't muster any offensive creativity/threat

[brewcity77]

Right now, I think Dempsey can be that true CF we need. He's different than McBride, but he does well enough in the air and can create his own shot at times. Nifty enough to be dangerous and tidy enough to be a poacher. I think part of the problem is the formation. Ideally I think we'd be best using an attacking 4-5-1. As far as deployment...

Dempsey

Finlay --- Nagbe --- Yedlin
Bradley --- Williams

Johnson --- Brooks --- Birnbaum --- Cameron

Guzan

This would allow the wings and attacking mid (Nagbe) to join the attack and give the 4-3-3 appearance Klinsmann likes, but you have dedicated midfielders in those roles (not forwards like Wood and Zardes) that are better at possessing the ball. We had great possession in the middle third, but couldn't get the ball into the box because we had the wrong guys there.

Also, against a team like Colombia, we need to have the edge in the air. That means Birnbaum absolutely had to be out there. Putting Brooks, Birnbaum, Dempsey, and Cameron all on the field together would have improved our odds of scoring on setpieces. We also need guys that can still play. What are dinosaurs like Jones (no pace at age 34), Beckerman (no pace at age 34), and Wondo (never an international level player and 33) doing out there when we could have Finlay (a true pacey winger in his prime at 25) or Williams (starting for Reading, in his prime at 27)? And if you're that intent on forwards playing winger, why not go for guys like Arriola and Green who actually have pace and experience on the wing over Wondolowski, who at the international level has never impressed?

Should we have won yesterday? Probably not. We definitely should have drawn one back. I can't quibble over the result. The better team won. But the reality is when you go into a game playing a better team, you need the players and tactics that give you the best chance to take something out of it. We didn't do that. We got behind and never adapted. We had plenty of the ball but couldn't do anything with it in the final third. Our best opportunities all came off setpieces and we didn't have the best personnel out there to capitalize on that.

I really hope we can turn it around against Costa Rica. It will be such a completely different game, as they'll play in a shell with both teams likely hoping for a 1-0 win. But I'm kind of resigned to this just being how things go under Klinsmann. Best case scenario, we finish second in group and get excited about a semifinal in Chicago only to get blasted by Brazil in the quarters. Maybe blame the refs or blame the players not being good enough, but I know it won't be Klinsmann's fault. Just ask him...it never is.

[jesmu84]

Right now, I think Dempsey can be that true CF we need. He's different than McBride, but he does well enough in the air and can create his own shot at times. Nifty enough to be dangerous and tidy enough to be a poacher. I think part of the problem is the formation. Ideally I think we'd be best using an attacking 4-5-1. As far as deployment...

Dempsey

Finlay --- Nagbe --- Yedlin
Bradley --- Williams

Johnson --- Brooks --- Birnbaum --- Cameron

Guzan

This would allow the wings and attacking mid (Nagbe) to join the attack and give the 4-3-3 appearance Klinsmann likes, but you have dedicated midfielders in those roles (not forwards like Wood and Zardes) that are better at possessing the ball. We had great possession in the middle third, but couldn't get the ball into the box because we had the wrong guys there.

Also, against a team like Colombia, we need to have the edge in the air. That means Birnbaum absolutely had to be out there. Putting Brooks, Birnbaum, Dempsey, and Cameron all on the field together would have improved our odds of scoring on setpieces. We also need guys that can still play. What are dinosaurs like Jones (no pace at age 34), Beckerman (no pace at age 34), and Wondo (never an international level player and 33) doing out there when we could have Finlay (a true pacey winger in his prime at 25) or Williams (starting for Reading, in his prime at 27)? And if you're that intent on forwards playing winger, why not go for guys like Arriola and Green who actually have pace and experience on the wing over Wondolowski, who at the international level has never impressed?

Should we have won yesterday? Probably not. We definitely should have drawn one back. I can't quibble over the result. The better team won. But the reality is when you go into a game playing a better team, you need the players and tactics that give you the best chance to take something out of it. We didn't do that. We got behind and never adapted. We had plenty of the ball but couldn't do anything with it in the final third. Our best opportunities all came off setpieces and we didn't have the best personnel out there to capitalize on that.

I really hope we can turn it around against Costa Rica. It will be such a completely different game, as they'll play in a shell with both teams likely hoping for a 1-0 win. But I'm kind of resigned to this just being how things go under Klinsmann. Best case scenario, we finish second in group and get excited about a semifinal in Chicago only to get blasted by Brazil in the quarters. Maybe blame the refs or blame the players not being good enough, but I know it won't be Klinsmann's fault. Just ask him...it never is.

Dempsey has never been a hold-up striker. That's what you're asking him to be here. The guy who receives the ball and waits for others to make runs. I don't like it, personally. He is much better working with a hold up guy like jozy.

Also, placing Fabian at the back is bananas. Taking one of the better LM/LW from the top German division and forcing him to LB severely limits our attacking potential.

Other than those two things, lots of good stuff here, brew.

[brewcity77]

Dempsey has never been a hold-up striker. That's what you're asking him to be here. The guy who receives the ball and waits for others to make runs. I don't like it, personally. He is much better working with a hold up guy like jozy.

Also, placing Fabian at the back is bananas. Taking one of the better LM/LW from the top German division and forcing him to LB severely limits our attacking potential.

Other than those two things, lots of good stuff here, brew.

We don't have anyone at the forward position that really does hold up play, so I figure better interchanging guys up front. At least not right now with Altidore injured. Really just trying to make the best of our situation.

As far as Fabian, the problem is that we have no one else who can capably play left back. He's by far the best LB we have ever had. Not even close. And when playing for the US, I feel he's been better going forward from a deeper lying position than he has when he was actually playing on the wing. He makes fantastic overlapping runs. Give him a good winger that knows how to cover back and overlap and he's our best option there. The problem is really who you go with if you don't have Fab out there. Edgar Castillo? Eek.

While Fab is probably our best LMF, we have other guys that can play the position in our system, like Bedoya, Finlay, or Green. We don't have anyone else that can competently play LB.

[JoeSmith1721]

Do you really believe this?

I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.

Fair enough, I just never thought we were the better team during the game. 

[Henry Sugar]

I said that at halftime, they were without a doubt the better team in the first half.

At halftime the US put 0% of their shots on target. Colombia had put 71% of their shots on target by halftime.

For the entire game, the US put 17% of their shots on target to Colombia's 57%. Oh, and Colombia had more shots total.

Right now, I rate the US as the worst overall team in all of the tournament.

[mu03eng]

At halftime the US put 0% of their shots on target. Colombia had put 71% of their shots on target by halftime.

For the entire game, the US put 17% of their shots on target to Colombia's 57%. Oh, and Colombia had more shots total.

Right now, I rate the US as the worst overall team in all of the tournament.

So....Jurgen has room for improvement?

[Henry Sugar]

So....Jurgen has room for improvement?

Don't we all? Jurgen could start by:

1. playing guys in their proper positions
2. having some consistency in the lineups
3. taking accountability for his actions

[Henry Sugar]

Current Copa America rankings from my fledgling website.

http://www.lowedownstats.com/index.php/2016/06/06/copa-america-rankings-6-5/

[mu03eng]

Don't we all? Jurgen could start by:

1. playing guys in their proper positions
2. having some consistency in the lineups
3. taking accountability for his actions

I have never understood his damn near insistence that everyone play out of position....I think the team would be good if they just played everyone in their known position and left it at that.