Futbol Talk

[jesmu84]

Legit analysis

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2015/10/14/armchair-analyst-more-problems-no-solutions-us-national-team-after-loss-costa-rica

I agree with much of what he said. US/Klins seem to have no plan right now. No fundamental understanding/structure of what they want to do and how they want to do it. Sad.

My lineup would look like this:

Guzan
Yedlin-Besler-Cameron-Ream
McCarty/Trapp (maybe Polster)
F. Johnson-Bradley-Bedoya
Nguyen
Wood

[brewcity77]

I posted this on Big Soccer today:

   

    In the Costa Rica match last night, Stuart Holden made a brilliant observation that largely went unnoticed because as he was coming to the climax of his point, Costa Rica scored and the discussion turned back to the events on the pitch. Here's the quote:

"You bring up Costa Rica, I think they're a wonderful example. For people who want to argue 'the United States doesn't have the players', well then find a tactical gameplan that suits your players. Costa Rica went to the World Cup Ian, look at the likes they played. They got to the quarterfinals with a tactical gameplan."

    For me, this is the crux of the problem with our team at the moment. We aren't playing with tactics that suit our players. The backline changes on a match-by-match basis. Players are moved between positions like the manager is playing a shell game. The shape of the team is rarely static from half-to-half, much less match-to-match. All of this is a problem.

    For all their faults, Bruce Arena and Bob Bradley largely understood what we are as a nation and how to win with the players they have. I understand Klinsmann is promising a new way of playing, but you simply can't turn Gyasi Zardes into Cristiano Ronaldo or Michael Bradley into Lionel Messi by wishing it were so.

    The national team manager's job is to utilize the players he has to the best of his ability and maximize the results with those players. Developing talent, tinkering with positions, increasing fitness, all of those are jobs of the club manager. The national team manager simply doesn't have enough time with the players to fix all those things in the few weeks per year he is given. And this is why it is time for Klinsmann to go. He simply doesn't have the tactical acumen to get the most out of this crop of players. Whether it's the wrong manager, the wrong time, or the wrong group of players, the simple reality is this mixture does not work right now.

    For all the promises of attacking football, Klinsmann bunkers down more than Bob Bradley did, but by constantly changing the back line and the midfielders in front of them, there is no chemistry, no consistency, and thus no real chance of winning. Since the World Cup, we have seen a rotating door of defenders and a growing dysfunction both on and off the pitch. When it was Donovan, it was only one guy getting the shaft, and many Americans thought it was a bold maverick move that should be applauded. But since then, we've seen Matt Besler and Fabian Johnson, both among our best players in Brazil, ostracized by the manager. We've seen our manager blame cast at the players, the refs, the short turnaround between games, and pretty much everything but himself.

    Our manager has consistently shown he is good at pointing the finger, but when it comes to actually answering the hard questions, like "how do we win?", he doesn't have a response. The answer is simple. Accept what we are, embrace the positives of the deepest talent pool USA Soccer has ever had, and create chemistry and consistency rather than tearing down both by deliberately promoting disruption on and off the pitch.

    I know there will be some trepidation in changing now, before the World Cup Qualifying starts, but the alternative of waiting is worse. Just about any manager should be able to motivate the team to a win over St. Vincent & the Grenadines at home, and even if we were to lose at Trinidad & Tobago, we could absorb one negative result early in this group. The manager would face those two tests early, then have 4 months to prepare before the next qualifier, plenty of time to get his feet under him a bit and have a viable plan for what will be a crucial two games with Guatemala in the span of a week in March.
     

[GGGG]

If they made a decision to get rid of Klinnsman, you could simply name Tab Ramos the interim right now and make a permanent hire after the November break.  After then they don't get back together until March.

[jesmu84]

He's here through at least the first round of CONCACAF qualifying.

Only question I have, if JK is out, is Sunil out too? If Sunil isn't out, how much do you trust him to make a good hire?

Edit: If JK goes, let's wait until Mourinho is fired so we can get him.

[brewcity77]

Right now, I really want Peter Vermes for the role. I think he's perfect when you look at what he's done at Sporting KC. While others break the bank for big name designated players, Vermes has shown consistent results with only two designated players, and both Matt Besler and Graham Zusi were guys that Vermes drafted in 2009 and have played their entire careers at SKC.

He's won an Open Cup and MLS Cup and was also capped 66 times as a USA international. He knows MLS as well as anyone out there and has the tactics both offensively and defensively to get the most out of our players. He isn't the sexy name, but he knows the player pool and knows how players in this country think and are motivated. He's shown he can win with the pieces he is given, not needing to splash cash for points.

And personally, while I'd love to have Vermes in the chair, I'd just as much like to see him gone by August 2018. One cycle is enough for any national team manager.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This.  Those games against Germany and the Netherlands have now been completely forgotten.

Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated. 

[mu03eng]

Klinsmann does need to go at this point.  I agree with Brew's overall point, that you have to play tactically with what you have not what you hope to have.

Where I agree with Klinsmann and hope we continue to follow this route, is develop the type of players you want within the US system that will be acceptable to the overall US plan of attack within international soccer.  However, that can be done independent of the here and now and independent of how the manager deploys the players he/she has.

We need to make the change now, and we need someone who can take the current pieces plus next 2-3 years of up and coming talent and create a system that utilizes that talent as it is.  I'm as big a Jurgen apologist as there is, but it's time to go.

[JWags85]

Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated.

Its admirable how you keep bringing up conjecture and opinion as fact

[WarriorInNYC]

Some of us never bought into them in the first place and took a few shots for not drinking the koolaid.

The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about those games, where we brought our A game and people thought we were in the conversation.  Fool's gold then as stated.

Now, I'm quite aware these were both friendlies, but just dismissing the results in this game is ridiculous.

1) "The Germans and Dutch didn't give a whoop about these games" - this could be the case, but what support do you have on this?

2) "We brought our A game" - yes a few of our regular starters played, but I wouldn't call our roster over there as "Our A Game".  Especially from when those games took place.  Maybe looking back on this game, and how some of the other players have fared since then, sure you can make an argument, but I wouldn't call a roster that didn't include Altidore, Dempsey, J. Jones, Cameron, Besler, Ream, Howard, and Bedoya as our "A Game".
2a) That roster was (at the time) full of guys just getting their feet wet with the national team (Brooks, Alvarado, Morales, Zardes, Ibarra, Danny Williams, Morris, Wood)

3) The Germans and Dutch didn't play their absolute best rosters, true.  But they didn't play scrubs.  Consider:
Netherlands:  Cillessen, Martins Indi, Blind, van Persie, Wijnaldum, Clasie were all starters in the World Cup and in that game, and Sneijder, Luuk de Jong were subbed on, Memphis Depay started.  This wasn't a scrub team.
Germany: starters Zieler, Mustafi, Schweinsteiger, Ozil, Shurrle, and Gotze were all on the World Cup Roster (all but Zieler having impacts in the WC) and with Khedira and Podolski subbing on.  You can't say this is a scrub team either.

4) These games were both true road games.

Now, I'm not saying these results should save Klinnsman's job or anything.  But to outright dismiss these results is silly and short-sighted.  And in my mind, I'd like to see more of some of these players in the WCQ matches (Wood, Morris, etc.)

[jesmu84]

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/usa-mexico-tactics-concacaf-cup-jurgen-klinsmann-ferretti

Excellent tactical analysis

[Henry Sugar]

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/12/usa-mexico-tactics-concacaf-cup-jurgen-klinsmann-ferretti

Excellent tactical analysis

I enjoy any analysis that uses GIFs.

Top marks

[ChicosBailBonds]

Its admirable how you keep bringing up conjecture and opinion as fact

No different than those saying we were knocking on the doorstep and beating these teams meant something. 

In my opinion, it didn't.  Fool's gold.

[jesmu84]

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-klinsmanns-technical-director-and-coach

Thoughts on this article?

[Henry Sugar]

http://www.americansoccernow.com/articles/a-tale-of-two-klinsmanns-technical-director-and-coach

Thoughts on this article?

I think it's more interesting to read in the context of this article from Grant Wahl

http://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2015/10/21/jurgen-klinsmann-us-soccer-jay-berhalter-jason-kreis-vieira-nycfc

Setting aside the gossip of Berhalter and Klinsmann and talk of a power struggle, I find it interesting that Berhalter has been doing a lot of the TD role. If that's the case, then how much credit do we really assign Klinsmann?

Having said that, I don't mind the author's analysis that there are options and reasons to keep Klinsmann on as coach with some changes made.

[jesmu84]

Well, unsurprisingly, even with a new staff entirely below the owner, the Fire manage to totally choke on draft day.

unnatural carnal knowledge.

[BM1090]

Watching the USA-Iceland friendly....can anyone tell me what Gyasi Zardes does well? I'm not a frequent viewer of MLS and he has yet to impress me in a USA jersey. Seems to just consistently give the ball away.

[GGGG]

Who's excited that we beat a country whose population is less than a fifth of the Milwaukee metropolitan area's?

[Golden Avalanche]

Who's excited that we beat a country whose population is less than a fifth of the Milwaukee metropolitan area's?

Hey, the 1,432 people who attended were happy when they left the stadium. 

[Henry Sugar]

Well, unsurprisingly, even with a new staff entirely below the owner, the Fire manage to totally choke on draft day.

unnatural carnal knowledge.

Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.

[WarriorInNYC]

Watching the USA-Iceland friendly....can anyone tell me what Gyasi Zardes does well? I'm not a frequent viewer of MLS and he has yet to impress me in a USA jersey. Seems to just consistently give the ball away.

I'm with you on this one.  Zardes, to me, is a nice player who is quite athletic, but really doesn't do a whole lot too well.  He is a guy that we should have had years ago when some of our teams were less talented.

However, when watching yesterday's game, Jozy actually played well (this was great to see), Morris and Kiesewetter impressed, I liked what I saw out of Lee Nguyen, and Clint Dempsey and Bobby Wood weren't there.

I don't see much reason for Zardes to get the playing time he currently is.

[WarriorInNYC]

Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.

NYCFC fan here, I agree with you.  I thought the Fire had a solid draft.  They ended up with the best LB in the draft (one who left the combine to join the USMNT Camp), and Campbell was a solid pickup as well.  Add in the extra $ they got from my team, they have some additional spending power. 

[jesmu84]

Late response, but I could not disagree with you more. I think the Fire had a great draft.

They picked up the top RB in the draft, who could have been drafted #1 overall. They got the most pro-ready CB in the draft. For both of those positions, they drafted on need and improved the back line.

Plus, they scored a bunch of additional GarberBucks with the wheeling and dealing, which they can now use to improve their international signings.

Nelson and Pauno had a plan and executed on it.

They traded the #1 overall, the #1 allocation pick and joevin Jones for 3 lower picks and cash.

Whether or not Yaro (who, if they kept the pick, they would have taken) ends up being great is TBD. Yes, they got significantly younger. But I'm still not convinced they "won" in all their dealings. Of course, the big unknown is the funny money they received. How they spend that will also determine success/failure.

[WarriorInNYC]

They traded the #1 overall, the #1 allocation pick and joevin Jones for 3 lower picks and cash.

Whether or not Yaro (who, if they kept the pick, they would have taken) ends up being great is TBD. Yes, they got significantly younger. But I'm still not convinced they "won" in all their dealings. Of course, the big unknown is the funny money they received. How they spend that will also determine success/failure.

Well, if you look at it that simplistically.  But I really think they did well.

1)  Traded the #1 overall pick for the #4 and General Allocation Money.  Used #4 overall pick to select Brandon Vincent.  Vincent was highly regarded by many to be one of the top players of the draft.  Example of this is his current presence in the USMNT camp.  Top LB in the draft.  Yes, they could have taken Yaro, but rumor on that is Chicago did not see him as a CB and only as a RB due to his height.  However, Yaro only wanted to play CB.  I thought Chicago played this very well.

2)  Traded away Joevin Jones for the #15 pick and more GAM.  To be honest, I don't know a whole ton about Jones, how effective he was, what his contract situation is, or how the new coaching staff sees him fitting into the current lineup.  But a lot of those items need to be considered.  But coming away with the 15th pick that was later used, along with GAM is pretty nice.

3)  Trading #15 and #33 and #1 Allocation Ranking for #12 and #22 and #2 Allocation Ranking.  I don't see how moving down in the Allocation Order by one spot is really a bad thing.  To be honest, I'm not sure what the Rapids were thinking here.  Rumor is they are going after Bedoya and Howard.  So unless Chicago really wanted to sign one of those two, then this is moot.  Moving up both spots, one of them used to select the most pro ready CB in the Draft (Campbell) was well done.  I don't know a ton about Alex Morrell, so will refrain on commenting on that pick.

I don't see how this cannot be anything other than a great success by the Fire.  Trading for cash in this league is a huge deal with the current salary cap limitations.

[jesmu84]

Well, if you look at it that simplistically.  But I really think they did well.

1)  Traded the #1 overall pick for the #4 and General Allocation Money.  Used #4 overall pick to select Brandon Vincent.  Vincent was highly regarded by many to be one of the top players of the draft.  Example of this is his current presence in the USMNT camp.  Top LB in the draft.  Yes, they could have taken Yaro, but rumor on that is Chicago did not see him as a CB and only as a RB due to his height.  However, Yaro only wanted to play CB.  I thought Chicago played this very well.

2)  Traded away Joevin Jones for the #15 pick and more GAM.  To be honest, I don't know a whole ton about Jones, how effective he was, what his contract situation is, or how the new coaching staff sees him fitting into the current lineup.  But a lot of those items need to be considered.  But coming away with the 15th pick that was later used, along with GAM is pretty nice.

3)  Trading #15 and #33 and #1 Allocation Ranking for #12 and #22 and #2 Allocation Ranking.  I don't see how moving down in the Allocation Order by one spot is really a bad thing.  To be honest, I'm not sure what the Rapids were thinking here.  Rumor is they are going after Bedoya and Howard.  So unless Chicago really wanted to sign one of those two, then this is moot.  Moving up both spots, one of them used to select the most pro ready CB in the Draft (Campbell) was well done.  I don't know a ton about Alex Morrell, so will refrain on commenting on that pick.

I don't see how this cannot be anything other than a great success by the Fire.  Trading for cash in this league is a huge deal with the current salary cap limitations.

Probably doesn't help overall that I am incredibly negative when it comes to the Fire ownership. Granted, Nelson just started there along with Pauno. But there is little in the last 4 years to make a Fire fan feel like the ones in charge know what they're doing.

[WarriorInNYC]

Probably doesn't help overall that I am incredibly negative when it comes to the Fire ownership. Granted, Nelson just started there along with Pauno. But there is little in the last 4 years to make a Fire fan feel like the ones in charge know what they're doing.

Well I can't blame you there.