Futbol Talk

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The Big Six are full of crap. They want extra voting shares for the 9 longest serving members, even though some of those have been in the PL for less than a decade currently? And saying the EFL members give nothing in return ignores they have to continually meet stadium regulations just to adequately compete in their own leagues in the event they are promoted. It's a classic example of money ruining sport. Billionaire owners are convinced they don't have enough of the pie so they are trying to cut off the support system below that allows them to exist in the first place.

This is basically Amazon forcing your local grocer out of business and then complaining they don't get enough tax breaks. It's driven by greed from foreign investors that don't understand or care about the system they bought in to and just want to rape it for every last penny they can.

So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.

This would be such a dangerous tipping point for English football though. Look at teams like Sunderland when they leave the Premier League. They don't just drop one division, they sometimes drop two or more.

There would be countless teams going into administration. Tons of local clubs going under. All you have to would be to look at the concentration of English football teams that went into administration after the premier league was formed (1992) compared to a time before the Prem.

Hell, Wigan and Bolton went into administration from the championship and Bolton was a premier league regular for over a decade.

It would be an absolute mess. Brits have always said the Premier League was the worst thing to happen to English football, until now I considered that just to be British pessimism but I''m starting to believe them now.

[Its DJOver]

McKennie tests positive for Covid.  Out for the Champions League game against Kiev, probably out for the game against Barca.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

This would be such a dangerous tipping point for English football though. Look at teams like Sunderland when they leave the Premier League. They don't just drop one division, they sometimes drop two or more.

There would be countless teams going into administration. Tons of local clubs going under. All you have to would be to look at the concentration of English football teams that went into administration after the premier league was formed (1992) compared to a time before the Prem.

Hell, Wigan and Bolton went into administration from the championship and Bolton was a premier league regular for over a decade.

It would be an absolute mess. Brits have always said the Premier League was the worst thing to happen to English football, until now I considered that just to be British pessimism but I''m starting to believe them now.

Well, teams like Sunderland dropping multiple divisions happened before the Premier League.

But the problem is that the Brits want things the way they were, but that's not going to happen.  Too much money in the game now.  So if you are going to keep the pyramid going, you are going to have to transfer wealth from the top to the bottom.  And the teams at the top aren't going to agree to that unilaterally, out of the goodness of their hearts and/or for the sake of tradition.

I mean, yeah it sucks.  The only way for teams like Newcastle, and 80+ other professional teams, to seriously compete for a title is if they get bought by someone very wealthy - most likely someone from outside Britain who views the purchase as an investment and/or a vanity piece.  Those owners aren't going to care about the Plymouth Argyle's or the Saunthorpe's of the league.  Why should they?

[Hards Alumni]

Well, teams like Sunderland dropping multiple divisions happened before the Premier League.

But the problem is that the Brits want things the way they were, but that's not going to happen.  Too much money in the game now.  So if you are going to keep the pyramid going, you are going to have to transfer wealth from the top to the bottom.  And the teams at the top aren't going to agree to that unilaterally, out of the goodness of their hearts and/or for the sake of tradition.

I mean, yeah it sucks.  The only way for teams like Newcastle, and 80+ other professional teams, to seriously compete for a title is if they get bought by someone very wealthy - most likely someone from outside Britain who views the purchase as an investment and/or a vanity piece.  Those owners aren't going to care about the Plymouth Argyle's or the Saunthorpe's of the league.  Why should they?

Found the problem.

[JWags85]

Found the problem.

It wasn’t an issue for the longest time, but the explosion of money in football has made it crazy. People talk about the huge gap between the EPL and other leagues, but hell, League 1, the 3rd tier of English football, still has an average salary of like $160-$170K. When you figure many of these clubs play in stadiums with capacities smaller than your average NBA arena, and many decent sized college arenas (<15K), even with some TV money, they are going to be very strained financially trying to balance gate takes with wages.

They’ve started to discuss a salary cap for League 1 and League 2, but that’s going to have push back cause it will make it very difficult for bigger clubs that fall down to splash some quid and buy their way right back to the Championship

[shoothoops]

19 year old American Brenden Aaronson of the MLS Philadelphia Union, will leave at the end of the season and join Austria's Red Bull Salzburg.

$6 million transfer fee and $3 million performance incentives is the largest for an MLS Academy Player.

[Its DJOver]

19 year old American Brenden Aaronson of the MLS Philadelphia Union, will leave at the end of the season and join Austria's Red Bull Salzburg.

$6 million transfer fee and $3 million performance incentives is the largest for an MLS Academy Player.

This kid can play.  Marsch played heavily in the recruitment of him.  Guaranteed him Champions League minutes, and sold him on Salzburg being a stepping stone to the Bundesliga. 

[JWags85]

This kid can play.  Marsch played heavily in the recruitment of him.  Guaranteed him Champions League minutes, and sold him on Salzburg being a stepping stone to the Bundesliga.

Very impressed with how RB Salzburg has positioned themselves. They are almost in that Ajax mode of the 90s, both for players and managers. The last 5 RB managers have ended up in the Bundesliga or other top leagues and obviously countless players have moved on recently as well. Not to mention, in the meantime you will play aggressive attacking football, win A LOT, and play in the CL. It’s a fantastic scenario

[Its DJOver]

Very impressed with how RB Salzburg has positioned themselves. They are almost in that Ajax mode of the 90s, both for players and managers. The last 5 RB managers have ended up in the Bundesliga or other top leagues and obviously countless players have moved on recently as well. Not to mention, in the meantime you will play aggressive attacking football, win A LOT, and play in the CL. It’s a fantastic scenario

The rumor (key word here) that I have heard recently is that if Pep leaves City at the end of the year, Nagelsmann is their top choice to replace him.  If that were to happen, you would think that Marsch would have a decent shot at the Leipzig job.  Would be a great move for him, downside would be that if he moves there in the summer of 2021, I don't think he would be ready to move on should he get a call to coach the USMNT after the 2022 WC.  Tons of speculation, I know, but would be very interesting to see how things would shake out.

[brewcity77]

So why should they give up $$ to help the lower leagues?  Why should the 3rd and 4th tiers stay as professional leagues if they don't earn the revenue to support themselves?

I agree the governance structure they proposed is bad, but I don't know why the PL clubs should be compelled to give up resources that the other clubs haven't earned.

Because the structure doesn't work without them. You can't win a treble without winning those cups contested with other leagues in your system. Because those leagues are part of the development system that provides players to the upper leagues. Supporting those teams and leagues provides the player development that gives them a player pool, it provides the opposition to give the titles they win credibility. Unless every other major league joins them in divorcing from lower tiers, it will undermine their ability to compete and earn respect at the European level they desire. Guys like Jamie Vardy and Gylfi Sigurdsson cut their teeth for years in lower leagues. Or think of someone like Harry Kane, who was loaned out repeatedly before he was ready for Spurs. If those clubs are allowed to wither away, there goes that development avenue.

What the outside investors fail to understand is that the relationship between the PL and the lower leagues is not parasitic, it is symbiotic. They need each other to survive and thrive. The competition, the players, everything that sustains the clubs and allows them to profit the way they do is because of the links they have with the lower leagues. And while it's easy to say "well, it will only effect the bottom leagues" we all know it will start low and cut off higher and higher up. At first it will be the lowest leagues, then Leagues 1 and 2, then the Championship, all of which are needed for the system to function.

[reinko]

Roll your asses out of bed on Sat AM for the Merseyside.
 

COYB!

[MUfan12]

Roll your asses out of bed on Sat AM for the Merseyside.
 

COYB!

While it helps my guys, I still wish we could have a full Goodison tomorrow. It would have been a spectacle.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Because the structure doesn't work without them. You can't win a treble without winning those cups contested with other leagues in your system. Because those leagues are part of the development system that provides players to the upper leagues. Supporting those teams and leagues provides the player development that gives them a player pool, it provides the opposition to give the titles they win credibility. Unless every other major league joins them in divorcing from lower tiers, it will undermine their ability to compete and earn respect at the European level they desire. Guys like Jamie Vardy and Gylfi Sigurdsson cut their teeth for years in lower leagues. Or think of someone like Harry Kane, who was loaned out repeatedly before he was ready for Spurs. If those clubs are allowed to wither away, there goes that development avenue.

What the outside investors fail to understand is that the relationship between the PL and the lower leagues is not parasitic, it is symbiotic. They need each other to survive and thrive. The competition, the players, everything that sustains the clubs and allows them to profit the way they do is because of the links they have with the lower leagues. And while it's easy to say "well, it will only effect the bottom leagues" we all know it will start low and cut off higher and higher up. At first it will be the lowest leagues, then Leagues 1 and 2, then the Championship, all of which are needed for the system to function.

So they should just give them what they need without conditions?  Because the League Cup would lose is legitimacy otherwise?

[brewcity77]

So they should just give them what they need without conditions?  Because the League Cup would lose is legitimacy otherwise?

Because their competition and development relies on the continued existence of those organizations. Besides, why draw this arbitrary line now? Fully 70% of the current PL makeup has spent time in lower leagues since 2000-01, which includes 5 of the last 9 PL league title winners.

This is arbitrary and ignores the system that has allowed these teams to have success in the first place, allowed them to develop the players they use, and gave them the springboard they used to win titles.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

CCV to Bournemouth on a year long loan.  Contract is up in June.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Because their competition and development relies on the continued existence of those organizations. Besides, why draw this arbitrary line now? Fully 70% of the current PL makeup has spent time in lower leagues since 2000-01, which includes 5 of the last 9 PL league title winners.

This is arbitrary and ignores the system that has allowed these teams to have success in the first place, allowed them to develop the players they use, and gave them the springboard they used to win titles.

Nothing presented in the plan prevents any of this from happening.

Don't get me wrong, I thought there was a lot of things, especially in the PL governance aspect that was a problem.  But this is the way negotiations work - if they want resources, they have to give up something in return.

[brewcity77]

Nothing presented in the plan prevents any of this from happening.

Don't get me wrong, I thought there was a lot of things, especially in the PL governance aspect that was a problem.  But this is the way negotiations work - if they want resources, they have to give up something in return.

Immediately, no, but this is a money and power grab. When does a money and power grab not lead to those with the most power using it to sap more and more money out of those with less influence? Do you really believe the large clubs will keep sending equitable shares to the lower leagues out of the goodness of their hearts?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Immediately, no, but this is a money and power grab. When does a money and power grab not lead to those with the most power using it to sap more and more money out of those with less influence? Do you really believe the large clubs will keep sending equitable shares to the lower leagues out of the goodness of their hearts?

Then maybe its not a sustainable business model.

[brewcity77]

Then maybe its not a sustainable business model.

There's more than enough money in the PL to support the EFL. This is a microcosm of our own economic system where all the resources are being redirected to an extreme minority.

The problem isn't the model, it's the greed of the outside investors.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There's more than enough money in the PL to support the EFL. This is a microcosm of our own economic system where all the resources are being redirected to an extreme minority.

The problem isn't the model, it's the greed of the outside investors.

Well OK.  I think that's a bad comparison.  A country's taxation system and the economics of soccer leagues are different things completely. 

What you are pushing for is transferring wealth from those who earned it to those who haven't...and give up nothing in return.  That's not how it works.  The lower leagues are going to have to give up something, the League Cup, the size of the PL, something. 

So if you want to save the system, you have to reform it as well. 

[brewcity77]

Except they are all in the same league system. It wasn't long ago that Leicester & Man City were outside the PL. They are going to exclude teams just removed from that league. The EFL are divisions of the same league the PL members are in.

What does that mean? Those EFL teams HAVE earned it. There are 30 teams outside the PL currently that have played PL games, contributed to the development of the PL as a league, and continue to enhance its competition and development. The PL would not be what it is without the teams that have been members before and could be again. It's a misunderstanding of the appeal of the league system.

[Its DJOver]

VAR, discuss.

[MUfan12]

VAR, discuss.

It's a disaster. Next question.

[Pakuni]

VAR, discuss.

It makes NFL instant reply seem effective and efficient.