[Rosiak's Blog] Details released on Blue assault case

[muhoosier260]

I never knew there were so many lawyers on this board

[bilsu]

So it is bad for Vander to "distort" the intent but you think it is only appropriate for the other guy?  

We all assuming the other guy intended to fight. However, we were not there and we really do not know what his intent was. I am not defending the other party. I am saying that Vander should of taken the plea and put the ordeal behind him. This will not go away now until the trial is done. If it were me, I rather not have to worry about going to trial.

[Pakuni]

This is why I think it's a mistake to go to trial and not take the disorderly plea.  Now we'll have another round of TV reports outside the courthouse, Qdoba, Humphrey Hall, and the AL talking about Vander being on trial for Assault and Battery.  They won't mention it's a municipal citation and not criminal charges and the general public won't care, and all the reports will mention the onging sexual assault investigations.  There will be multiple newspaper articles, and hundreds more message board posts and blog entries beyond just the MU boards.  I think paying the $175 fine for disorderly conduct would be money well spent to avoid bringing all this continued negative attention to Marquette.

Maybe, maybe not.
If the case ends in a dismissal or acquittal, then all that news is going to be that a MU player was cleared/exonerated of the allegations. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor it is really negative attention. And it's certainly much better than news of a Marquette player pleading guilty.

[77ncaachamps]

Keep it up everyone! At this rate - barring Mod locks - this thread will surpass Devonte Newbill's!

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Keep it up everyone! At this rate - barring Mod locks - this thread will surpass Devonte Newbill's!

I heard Brad Forester is going to have an expose on the situation.

[4everwarriors]

From his parent's basement?

[Litehouse]

Maybe, maybe not.
If the case ends in a dismissal or acquittal, then all that news is going to be that a MU player was cleared/exonerated of the allegations. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor it is really negative attention. And it's certainly much better than news of a Marquette player pleading guilty.

Here's my prediction, all the local news stations will do stories the day before the trial about how a Marquette player is going to court for assault & battery.  If he's acquitted, the only station to follow up will be WISN, and their story will be how a Marquette player used the most prominent criminal defense attorney in the state to get out of paying a $175 disorderly conduct ticket.

[LON]

Here's my prediction, all the local news stations will do stories the day before the trial about how a Marquette player is going to court for assault & battery.  If he's acquitted, the only station to follow up will be WISN, and their story will be how a Marquette player used the most prominent criminal defense attorney in the state to get out of paying a $175 disorderly conduct ticket.

Haters gonna hate...

[muhoosier260]

Here's my prediction, all the local news stations will do stories the day before the trial about how a Marquette player is going to court for assault & battery.  If he's acquitted, the only station to follow up will be WISN, and their story will be how a Marquette player used the most prominent criminal defense attorney in the state to get out of paying a $175 disorderly conduct ticket.

sounds about right

[TheDOC816]

I take it you've never met another athlete before, much less one who was told he was the greatest thing ever in HS.  Not saying its right, but Vander is hardly alone and when people complain about this (happened all the time with football players I went to college with), they just come off as bitter and jealous.

I have met other athletes and I never made the generalization that all athletes are like Vander.
 

If today's bball players are like the ones when I was MU, they generally have a bit of a "I am big time" attitude, but are by and large good guys trying to live life under a microscope.

I would agree with Sultan here.  It's just that Vander takes "I am big time" to a new level. 

[AZWarrior]

I went back and read the initial account again.  It is incomplete and because of that, one cannot draw any conclusions from it.   So I'm amazed at the length of the thread.  But then again, it is a slow MU news period, so it give us something to speculate about......

[awilhelmscream]

I have met other athletes and I never made the generalization that all athletes are like Vander.
 
I would agree with Sultan here.  It's just that Vander takes "I am big time" to a new level.  

I was there from 04-08 and this is nothing different from crap the bball players pulled while I was there.  Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up like some of the old regime.  For example, I watched an unnamed player drop a guy at a house party after some words were exchanged (no racial slurs though).  The police showed up and started to write citations and all of a sudden TC's Jaguar pulls up behind the cop car.  He exchanged some words with the cop and told the unnamed player to get in the back of his car.  This isn't a TC vs Buzz thing and I don't want it to turn into that but it just seems that things are different now in the way the players are treated in these situations.  That being said, for every d-bag there is on the team that thinks he's God's gift to campus there is another one that is a truly nice guy.

[Tugg Speedman]

Here's my prediction, all the local news stations will do stories the day before the trial about how a Marquette player is going to court for assault & battery.  If he's acquitted, the only station to follow up will be WISN, and their story will be how a Marquette player used the most prominent criminal defense attorney in the state to get out of paying a $175 disorderly conduct ticket.

modified +1

If Gerry Boyle gets Vander off, the we will get live shots from the Court House, Qdoba, Humphrey and the AL all saying that MU and Vander used one of the state's best criminal attorneys to beat a $175 municipal violation.   The will guess how many thousands of dollars Boyle's fee would have been for the mere mortal to have him represent them in a municipal violation case.  The implication is MU used its money and clout to get its star off.  The implication will be that MU bullied the process.

Then they will mention the ongoing criminal investigation into sexual assault charges and leave the viewer with the idea that MU basketball players are guilty.  And, if they are cleared, or have been cleared by Vander's June 3 court date, the impression is MU again bullied the process to get the guilty off.

No matter what the outcome, nothing good is coming from this court date/trial for MU.

Pay the fine and make it go away.

[Marquette84]

I was there from 04-08 and this is nothing different from crap the bball players pulled while I was there.  Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up like some of the old regime.  For example, I watched an unnamed player drop a guy at a house party after some words were exchanged (no racial slurs though).  The police showed up and started to write citations and all of a sudden TC's Jaguar pulls up behind the cop car.  He exchanged some words with the cop and told the unnamed player to get in the back of his car.  This isn't a TC vs Buzz thing and I don't want it to turn into that but it just seems that things are different now in the way the players are treated in these situations.  That being said, for every d-bag there is on the team that thinks he's God's gift to campus there is another one that is a truly nice guy.

1.  If there was no citation issued to the unnamed player, what was "covered up"? 

2.  Aren't you "covering it up" as well given that you aren't naming the player?

3.  Do you think that if Buzz had known about Vander's altercation, that he wouldn't have done the same thing for Vander by pulling his Escalade up behind the cop car, having some words with the cop, and telling Vander to to get in the back seat?

4.  And how do you reconcile your comment that "Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up," with the fact that this event occurred on October 24 2010 and only became public on April 19, 2011--nearly six months later?


It seems far more likely to me that the reason why Buzz didn't get to the scene on 10/24 was that he didn't find out about the incident in time or was out of town on a recruiting trip.  Buzz strikes me as the kind of guy that would have his players back, and I have to think he would have done the exact same thing for Blue that you say that Crean did for his player if it meant avoiding this whole distraction. 

[Golden Avalanche]

I was there from 04-08 and this is nothing different from crap the bball players pulled while I was there.  Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up like some of the old regime.  For example, I watched an unnamed player drop a guy at a house party after some words were exchanged (no racial slurs though).  The police showed up and started to write citations and all of a sudden TC's Jaguar pulls up behind the cop car.  He exchanged some words with the cop and told the unnamed player to get in the back of his car.  This isn't a TC vs Buzz thing and I don't want it to turn into that but it just seems that things are different now in the way the players are treated in these situations.  That being said, for every d-bag there is on the team that thinks he's God's gift to campus there is another one that is a truly nice guy.

I miss DJ. He was really fun to watch.

As for the last statement, that can probably extend to the entire male population on campus. Plenty of douchebags who thought they originated from the seventh rib of God during my time in Milwaukee.

[awilhelmscream]

1.  If there was no citation issued to the unnamed player, what was "covered up"? 

2.  Aren't you "covering it up" as well given that you aren't naming the player?

3.  Do you think that if Buzz had known about Vander's altercation, that he wouldn't have done the same thing for Vander by pulling his Escalade up behind the cop car, having some words with the cop, and telling Vander to to get in the back seat?

4.  And how do you reconcile your comment that "Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up," with the fact that this event occurred on October 24 2010 and only became public on April 19, 2011--nearly six months later?


It seems far more likely to me that the reason why Buzz didn't get to the scene on 10/24 was that he didn't find out about the incident in time or was out of town on a recruiting trip.  Buzz strikes me as the kind of guy that would have his players back, and I have to think he would have done the exact same thing for Blue that you say that Crean did for his player if it meant avoiding this whole distraction. 

1) What didn't you understand about the cop was in the process of writing citations when TC pulled up and then for some reason stopped?  That was covering up an incident and making sure that there were no legal consequences or paper trail to prove this ever happened.  Again, nothing against Crean either.  He dropped off donuts and coffee for students outside of the BC at 6am numerous times when I was freezing my ass off waiting in line for lower bowl seats.
 
2) Not covering it up, just didn't want to get into the "I know that guy was a great ambassador for the University" discussion.  Hint: He was a guard that played for the team from 2005-2009.

3) I actually don't think Buzz would have done that, he tends to talk a lot about accountability and having a player deal with the consequences of his actions is otherwise known as holding someone accountable.

4) That lag time is just the difference between when the citation was issued and some reporter cruising the arrest / trial site to find a story.  Yes, the court date was probably set to not interfere with basketball season but I would venture a guess that the info was out there the whole time and some reporter just came across it April 19th as the court date got closer.

Again, having your player's back is one thing but not holding them accountable for their actions is another and what you're suggesting is definitely the latter.  I don't know Buzz personally but from what I can tell I don't think he'd stand for that.

[awilhelmscream]

I miss DJ. He was really fun to watch.

As for the last statement, that can probably extend to the entire male population on campus. Plenty of douchebags who thought they originated from the seventh rib of God during my time in Milwaukee.

That's what I was getting at, they're just like every other male on campus in that regard.  I'm trying to kick a cold right now and the meds are clouding my ability to convey my thoughts as I'd like.  Also, nice job on picking up on the identity of the unnamed athlete.

[Marquette84]

1) What didn't you understand about the cop was in the process of writing citations when TC pulled up and then for some reason stopped?  That was covering up an incident and making sure that there were no legal consequences or paper trail to prove this ever happened.  Again, nothing against Crean either.  He dropped off donuts and coffee for students outside of the BC at 6am numerous times when I was freezing my ass off waiting in line for lower bowl seats.

Was there a citation issued?  No.  Therefore, there was nothing to cover up.

Its no different that talking a cop into letting you go with a warning instead of issuing a ticket.   Appealing to an officer to use his discretion and not issue a ticket is NOT covering it up.

3) I actually don't think Buzz would have done that, he tends to talk a lot about accountability and having a player deal with the consequences of his actions is otherwise known as holding someone accountable.

I disagree on two fronts.

First, I strongly suspect that Crean DID hold his player accountable. 

Second, it is unimaginable to me that Buzz would wash his hands of a situation if he found out a player of his was in some sort of trouble. 

Imagine what might have happened that night:
DJO:  "Coach--Vander got in a fight, the police are here, I think he's in trouble--what do we do?"

Do you actually think Buzz would hang up on DJO?  Tell him that he's washing his hands of the whole matter?  "You and Vander made your bed, now you lie in it.  I'm not coming."

I still maintain that if Buzz had known of the situation and could get there, he would have done exactly what Crean did.  And if Buzz could have appealed to the cops to use some discretion to not issue a ticket or arrest the player (knowing that an arrest could follow a player forever, hurt future employment chances, etc), I strongly believe that Buzz would have done just that.

He'd then issue his own punishment in practice.  And perhaps Vander would wish he was just arrested at that point.

4) That lag time is just the difference between when the citation was issued and some reporter cruising the arrest / trial site to find a story.  Yes, the court date was probably set to not interfere with basketball season but I would venture a guess that the info was out there the whole time and some reporter just came across it April 19th as the court date got closer.

Imagine if one of Huggins' players was arrested two weeks before the season began, and he said nothing about it.  Then imagine if some reporter discovered the arrest after the end of the season.

Would you be defending Huggins for holding his players accountable and not covering up the arrest?

Again, having your player's back is one thing but not holding them accountable for their actions is another and what you're suggesting is definitely the latter.  I don't know Buzz personally but from what I can tell I don't think he'd stand for that.

And what you're suggesting is that Buzz would turn his back on his player before he knows the facts. 

Sorry--I don't think he'd stand for that. 

If nothing else, I think Buzz would do everything possible to get to the scene and learn the truth--if for no other reason than to make sure that his player doesn't get railroaded by an overeager cop trying to make a name for himself with a marquee arrest, or getting played by some "victim" who makes up false charges because Vander is famous.

And if its a judgement call, he's going to do his best to support his player and try and prevent a situation that could haunt a player the rest of his life.

[Pakuni]

4.  And how do you reconcile your comment that "Buzz just doesn't cover this stuff up," with the fact that this event occurred on October 24 2010 and only became public on April 19, 2011--nearly six months later?

His player was cited, said citation was entered into the public record, said public records are readily available to anyone who has a computer and Internet connection, and the player was brought through university disciplinary channels and punished.

That may be the worst cover up of all time.

Was there a citation issued?  No.  Therefore, there was nothing to cover up.

Its no different that talking a cop into letting you go with a warning instead of issuing a ticket.   Appealing to an officer to use his discretion and not issue a ticket is NOT covering it up.

Awful, awful analogy.
You're comparing what one does on his own behalf (asking for a warning rather than a ticket) to having an high profile community figure advocate for a break on your behalf. A better comparison would be having Rahm Emanuel ask an Arlington Heights traffic cop to cut you a break.

And I'm not saying Crean did anything wrong. If that DJ story is true, he did what I suspect what most coaches would do.

[Marquette84]

His player was cited, said citation was entered into the public record, said public records are readily available to anyone who has a computer and Internet connection, and the player was brought through university disciplinary channels and punished.

That may be the worst cover up of all time.

It was good enough to keep it out of the news from 10/24/2010 to 4/19/2011.

Look, I'm not saying that Buzz failed because he didn't hold a press conference on 10/25 to announce what happened to his player--but neither should he be hailed for "not covering up" such incidents.  

Buzz's choice not to announce what happened with Blue and Crean's choice to intervene on behalf of his player both reflect an underlying desire to keep the incident out of the news.

Awful, awful analogy.
You're comparing what one does on his own behalf (asking for a warning rather than a ticket) to having an high profile community figure advocate for a break on your behalf. A better comparison would be having Rahm Emanuel ask an Arlington Heights traffic cop to cut you a break.

You compare the basketball coach of a private college to a former US Congressman, Presidential Chief of Staff and Mayor-Elect of the 3rd largest city in the nation?   And you say my analogy is "Awful, awful?"

If you want to be fair, given the similarities between the coach/player and father/son relationships, I would say Crean intervening on behalf of a player is not much different than a father intervening on behalf of his own son.

Second, your implication that the cop only used his discretion and didn't issue a citation because of Crean's celebrity is a pretty strong indictment of the character of the cop.  

Most cops I know would not let Crean's celebrity influence their thinking one iota--if the nature of the offense warrants a citation, nobody will talk them out of it just because a request comes from a "high profile public figure."  If someone asks for a break and gets it, its because the cop feels giving a break is a reasonable action given the situation.

And I'm not saying Crean did anything wrong. If that DJ story is true, he did what I suspect what most coaches would do.

And thats my point as well.  

I dispute the notion that these two events highlight some shift in policy from Crean "covering up" citations that don't exist to Buzz being a beacon of transparency.

[Pakuni]

It was good enough to keep it out of the news from 10/24/2010 to 4/19/2011.

Look, I'm not saying that Buzz failed because he didn't hold a press conference on 10/25 to announce what happened to his player--but neither should he be hailed for "not covering up" such incidents.  

Buzz's choice not to announce what happened with Blue and Crean's choice to intervene on behalf of his player both reflect an underlying desire to keep the incident out of the news.

Could you please cite one example of a coach announcing to the press (before it had been previously disclosed) that a player had been given a ticket.
Thanks.

You're somehow trying to equate Crean's active intervention on behalf of a player with Buzz's passive decision not to hold a press conference announcing a citation (something, to the best of my knowledge, which never happens).
It's not in the least bit comparable.

[Tugg Speedman]

His player was cited, said citation was entered into the public record, said public records are readily available to anyone who has a computer and Internet connection, and the player was brought through university disciplinary channels and punished.

I asked this earlier.  

Yes it was public record for months.  As I noted before, I knew about this before Christmas.  I even started a thread about it several weeks ago and the mods took it down.  Rosiak has a blog and he surely knew and said nothing.  All the reporters doing stand-ups about this on April 19 knew about it for weeks and said nothing.  Many of those close to the program (including many here) knew about this for months and nothing from anyone about this story.

So, EVERYONE went out of their way to make this a non-story from 10/24/2010 to 4/18/2011.  Then on 4/19/2011 this story seem to blow up as if Vander was arrested on April 19 for Felony Assault.

So why was this such a non-story until April 18 and such a big story on April 19?  Is it because of the Humphrey allegations?  Without them this would have slid all the way through without getting noticed?

[cheebs09]

I honestly think it was the Humphrey allegations and the fact that they had something to report about it (that Vander had his court date the other day). I doubt it was covered right away because honestly it really isn't that big of a deal and to my knowledge they don't cover this kind of stuff much. I'm asking because I have no idea, but was Diamond Taylor stealing at UW covered this in-depth? UWM had some problems earlier last year, was that given such a large amount of attention? JSonline reporting it isn't a huge deal, but were the news stations on campus issuing nightly reports?

[MUMac]

I asked this earlier.  

Yes it was public record for months.  As I noted before, I knew about this before Christmas.  I even started a thread about it several weeks ago and the mods took it down.  Rosiak has a blog and he surely knew and said nothing.  All the reporters doing stand-ups about this on April 19 knew about it for weeks and said nothing.  Many of those close to the program (including many here) knew about this for months and nothing from anyone about this story.

So, EVERYONE went out of their way to make this a non-story from 10/24/2010 to 4/18/2011.  Then on 4/19/2011 this story seem to blow up as if Vander was arrested on April 19 for Felony Assault.

So why was this such a non-story until April 18 and such a big story on April 19?  Is it because of the Humphrey allegations?  Without them this would have slid all the way through without getting noticed?

What's to report?  It was a Muni Citation.  Nothing more.  VB was not talking - would have been advised not to -  if interviewed and the reporter would not have known the circumstance or who else was involved.  As it is a Muni Citation, I doubt they wanted to do much investigation anyway.

As for why it has blown up (or better yet, out of proportion) now, I suspect the other allegations have played signifcantly into that.

[Marquette84]

Could you please cite one example of a coach announcing to the press (before it had been previously disclosed) that a player had been given a ticket.
Thanks.

Irrelevant.  The premise I took issue with was that Buzz should be hailed as some paragon of transparency and openness.

As you illustrate, Buzz was no more forthcoming with information than any other coach in similar situations.

You're somehow trying to equate Crean's active intervention on behalf of a player with Buzz's passive decision not to hold a press conference announcing a citation (something, to the best of my knowledge, which never happens).

The comparison between Buzz and Crean was made before I got involved
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=26820.msg302288#msg302288

Awilhemlscream said that by comparing Buzz's actions to Crean's, one can conclude that Crean covered things up, and Buzz didn't.

I point out that Buzz's lack of public comment on the event is inconsistent with the conclusion that he is holier than any other coach.  

You're correct in that his lack of comment is a difference between a sin of omission rather than commission.  But it doesn't mean he's without sin, as Awilhelmiscrem concluded.

You now say the comparison is false--that's fine.  But that means that you would also have to agree with me that awilhelmiscream's conclusion--based only on that comparison--is also false.

The bottom line is that we don't know if Buzz is any more or less inclined to "cover things up" than any other coach--including our previous coach.