[Rosiak's Blog] Details released on Blue assault case

[ToddRosiakSays]

Details released on Blue assault case
               



Early one morning last October, Marquette University basketball player Vander Blue got into an argument with a man outside a campus restaurant, pushed the man twice, once into a window, and then punched him in the face, according to court documents.

               

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/120207189.html
               

[TallTitan34]

So the victim's story is Vander just walked in, threw water on him, and then punched him outside.

Something is missing.

[camarquette24]

So three separate incidents occuring last season/preseason one involving a fight, the others likely involving alcohol, and perhapd even underage drinkers - has anyone, in hindsight, been shocked that we didn't see any "violation of team rules" suspensions or at least temporary game restrictions???

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm skeptical of this because the report says Vander hit his target and I don't think Vander hit his target all year.

[immaeagle]

So the victim's story is Vander just walked in, threw water on him, and then punched him outside.

Something is missing.

That isn't at all how I read the victim's story. I read 1) Vander walks in, 2) Vander starts hitting on 2 girls sitting at a table, 3) boyfriends or male friends getting pissed and make fun of Vander, 4) Vander gets upset, words are exchanged, altercation ensues.

I could see something playing out exaclty like that (not saying it did, but it makes sense).

[TheDOC816]

I'm skeptical of this because the report says Vander hit his target and I don't think Vander hit his target all year.

Well said.

[GGGG]

So three separate incidents occuring last season/preseason one involving a fight, the others likely involving alcohol, and perhapd even underage drinkers - has anyone, in hindsight, been shocked that we didn't see any "violation of team rules" suspensions or at least temporary game restrictions???

Well, all three went through the student judicial review right?  So they received punishment that way.  Who knows if Buzz did something else in practice.

[TheDOC816]

Blue's statement's about the racial slur, that was not said according to other witnesses, and how he inadvertently hit the guy as he was trying to push him back? Both are pretty lame excuses.  I'm putting the blame on blue for this one

[Pakuni]

So the victim's story is Vander just walked in, threw water on him, and then punched him outside.

Something is missing.

Actually, it's more like ..

- Vander walks in and approaches table
- guy feels "disrespected" and mocks Vander's last name
- Vander tosses water on him
- they agree to take it outside
- pushing ensues
- Vander pops him
- he runs off to Public Safety

I might be remotely troubled by this if the guy didn't, by his own account, mock Blue and then agree to take it outside. What exactly was he expecting to happen?
Really kind of surprised it was even charged. Milwaukee PD not familiar with the concept of mutual combatants?

[GGGG]

Blue's statement's about the racial slur, that was not said according to other witnesses, and how he inadvertently hit the guy as he was trying to push him back? Both are pretty lame excuses.  I'm putting the blame on blue for this one

Well obviously Vander is to blame.  He seemed to escalate the incident by throwing water on the guy and pushing him around.  Hopefully he will learn a lesson and stop doing this stuff now that he's an adult.

[immaeagle]

About five or six weeks ago I was walking outside of my apartment that is just a bit off of campus. I hear "excuse me" come from a SUV that pulled up alongside the curb. The car is a bit away from me, but I instinctively stop and look, assuming someone is looking for directions. The "excuse me" came from Vander Blue, who was in the back seat of the SUV. The "excuse me" wasn't for me, it was for two girls that passed by me going the opposite direction. When neither of them stopped to respond, the car sped away.

According to the victim's account (and reading between the lines), it sounds like Vander's assault charge stemmed from Vander hitting on some girls the victim was with and him not taking it lightly.

There are two outstanding sexual assault charges, both of which have been rumored to involve basketball players.

[immaeagle]

I might be remotely troubled by this if the guy didn't, by his own account, mock Blue and then agree to take it outside. What exactly was he expecting to happen?
Really kind of surprised it was even charged. Milwaukee PD not familiar with the concept of mutual combatants?

The victim gets hit with water, is with 2 girls, and gets asks to fight (allegedly). What is he suppose to do?

I get the whole "boys will be boys" stance, and agree that stuff like this happens with "normal" students all of the time. Having said that, I have a problem with 1) Vander acting like such a punk in a BRAND new place (he was at school for what? 3/4 months? and 2) Vander being STUPID enough to think it was ok to "take this outside" in the busiest late-night student intersection and think things were going to end smoothly.

[Pakuni]

Well obviously Vander is to blame.  He seemed to escalate the incident by throwing water on the guy and pushing him around.  Hopefully he will learn a lesson and stop doing this stuff now that he's an adult.

Really?
One could just as easily say the other guy is to blame for mocking Vander's name.
Or maybe Vander is to blame for have the temerity of approaching a table uninvited.
Does it matter.
Two guys agree to take their differences outside. Setting aside the idiotic machismo involved, how is one to blame more than the other?

[GGGG]

About five or six weeks ago I was walking outside of my apartment that is just a bit off of campus. I hear "excuse me" come from a SUV that pulled up alongside the curb. The car is a bit away from me, but I instinctively stop and look, assuming someone is looking for directions. The "excuse me" came from Vander Blue, who was in the back seat of the SUV. The "excuse me" wasn't for me, it was for two girls that passed by me going the opposite direction. When neither of them stopped to respond, the car sped away.

According to the victim's account (and reading between the lines), it sounds like Vander's assault charge stemmed from Vander hitting on some girls the victim was with and him not taking it lightly.

There are two outstanding sexual assault charges, both of which have been rumored to involve basketball players.

Vander comes to campus as its latest star and uses it to try to chase some tail.  That doesn't make him a rapist.  Let's be a little careful with your projections.

[GGGG]

Really?
One could just as easily say the other guy is to blame for mocking Vander's name.

I'm not going to get into a huge debate on this, but making fun of someone's name IMO isn't really accelerating anything very much.  Obviously the police agreed.

[Pakuni]

The victim gets hit with water, is with 2 girls, and gets asks to fight (allegedly). What is he suppose to do?

Ummm ... I don't know. How about not making fun of a guy's name? Why's that more acceptable for you than a water toss?
Both guys acted like idiots. Why some see feel only one is to blame  is inexplicable to me.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure two guys jawing and agreeing to settle their differences outside aren't thinking about whether it'll end smoothly.

[Pakuni]

I'm not going to get into a huge debate on this, but making fun of someone's name IMO isn't really accelerating anything very much.  Obviously the police agreed.

Counselor .... police received a complaint and issued a ticket. That's standard practice, and that's likely the level of investigation involved. Do you think they put a couple of detectives and CSI on this before issuing a municipal citation?

[lab_warrior]

About five or six weeks ago I was walking outside of my apartment that is just a bit off of campus. I hear "excuse me" come from a SUV that pulled up alongside the curb. The car is a bit away from me, but I instinctively stop and look, assuming someone is looking for directions. The "excuse me" came from Vander Blue, who was in the back seat of the SUV. The "excuse me" wasn't for me, it was for two girls that passed by me going the opposite direction. When neither of them stopped to respond, the car sped away.

According to the victim's account (and reading between the lines), it sounds like Vander's assault charge stemmed from Vander hitting on some girls the victim was with and him not taking it lightly.

There are two outstanding sexual assault charges, both of which have been rumored to involve basketball players.

"My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with a girl who saw Ferris pass-out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious. "

[GGGG]

Really?  Police issue citations by simply receiving a complaint?  So they did no investigation?  Didn't call anyone?  

Look, they obviously talked to both Blue and the victim at least...and maybe some witnesses as well.  Given what everyone told them, they obviously felt Blue was to blame since they didn't issue the other guy a ticket.

[immaeagle]

Ummm ... I don't know. How about not making fun of a guy's name? Why's that more acceptable for you than a water toss?
Both guys acted like idiots. Why some see feet to blame only one is inexplicable to me.

Oh, and I'm pretty sure two guys jawing and agreeing to settle their differences outside aren't thinking about whether it'll end smoothly.

I don't care what Johnny d-bad, the history major, is doing on Saturday night. I do care what Vander Blue, star recruit, is doing. Student-athletes are held to a higher standard because they 1) go here for free, and 2) are in the public light (hello journal sentinel).

[immaeagle]

Vander comes to campus as its latest star and uses it to try to chase some tail.  That doesn't make him a rapist.  Let's be a little careful with your projections.

Pause. Never did I say rapist. I am comfortable saying that documented instances of a guy unwantedly hitting on a girl make him more capable of being the accused in a sexual assault case.

[Mr. Nielsen]

Not to put some blame on DJO, but he needs to pull Blue away and walk away from the others.

[Pakuni]

Really?  Police issue citations by simply receiving a complaint?  So they did no investigation?  Didn't call anyone?  

Look, they obviously talked to both Blue and the victim at least...and maybe some witnesses as well.  Given what everyone told them, they obviously felt Blue was to blame since they didn't issue the other guy a ticket.

No, they issued Blue a ticket because he hit a guy in an act that's not legally self-defense (being mocked over one's name is not legal justification, after all).
Blame is something decided by the courts, not the police.

[Lennys Tap]

Lots of late night bad judgement involved on both sides. Testosterone and (likely) alchohol can be a bad mix. Sounds like the "victim" was the first to say anything hostile and Blue finished things "outside". Given the conflicting statements I don't think it's fair to say it's "obvious" who's at fault here but there seems to be enough blame to go around.

[77ncaachamps]

If I get hit with water from a glass, can I claim assault?