alleged sexual assault investigation of 4 on 1 by public saftey

[Benny B]

So to sum up... no one really knows what took place. The only sexual assault on record involving MU was the 5 on 5 one in Newark last Friday. As of now, North Carolina has not been charged.

More like 5 on 2... but that's besides the point.

[PJDunn]

It will probably be DJO filing that repor.  He was "violated" by Carolina blue in a big way.

[groove]

plenty of witnesses

[dpucane]

as a student I will say that probably every student has heard a version of the story by now and one name is universally known. The rest is pretty vague other than where it happened. I don't know if I should say any more that I've heard because I only really got it from student hearsay

[rocky_warrior]

I don't know if I should say any more that I've heard because I only really got it from student hearsay

You have shown excellent decision making skills so far...

[RawdogDX]

I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to get across ... or probably I didn't write it clearly enough.  I'm not suggesting that the fact she didn't take it to cops instead of or before public safety is going to raise questions, but the fact she didn't take it to cops at all.

No I understood you.  And that (true or false) is ridiculous if you are dealing with a MU student.  They are surrounded by authority figures who would have made that call for her.  And that call would be to public safety not the police.  So the idea that it would be a sign of her innocence or guilt is out of line.  

If I beat up a girl in a hotel and she runs to the front desk who calls hotel security, no one would say 'why didn't she go to the police first.'

That said, I didn't read all 11 pages of this.  I just hate the idea that we are expecting a victim to think "how will me, going to public safety, play 14 months down the line when we are going to trial."

[Clam Crowder]

It is amazing how many students are ready to put the players down as guilty already. Probably the same kids that complain that we should spend less on the basketball program, and opt to study for a test worth 5 percent of their grade over going to a basketball game

[Pakuni]

No I understood you.  And that (true or false) is ridiculous if you are dealing with a MU student.  They are surrounded by authority figures who would have made that call for her.  And that call would be to public safety not the police.  So the idea that it would be a sign of her innocence or guilt is out of line.  

If I beat up a girl in a hotel and she runs to the front desk who calls hotel security, no one would say 'why didn't she go to the police first.'

That said, I didn't read all 11 pages of this.  I just hate the idea that we are expecting a victim to think "how will me, going to public safety, play 14 months down the line when we are going to trial."

You may hate it all you like, but it doesn't change the reality that a prosecutor (and certainly a defense attorney) is going to raise an eyebrow - with good reason - upon learning that a woman waited six months to report this to police. Brsides the fact that it eliminates any chance for physical evidence, it brings up legitimate questions of credibility and motivation. I say that without passing judgement on her honesty or dishonesty, just stating the reality of how a prosecutor who'll need to decide if he/she can prove this case beyond a reasonable doubt is going to view it.

To use your hotel example, nobody is going to say "why didn't she call police first." But if hotel security informs her of how to contact police, repeatedly tells her that contacting police is an option, and then she waits six months to call police and say you beat her up, the timing is going to be questioned.

Honestly, I'm not sure how anybody finds this remotely questionable or controversial. It would be exceptionally naive to think the six-month delay isn't a big issue in the investigation, and certainly in any prosecution.
Again, it's not the matter of her going to public safety first. It's a matter of her not going to police for six months.

[GO_MU02]

It is amazing how many students are ready to put the players down as guilty already. Probably the same kids that complain that we should spend less on the basketball program, and opt to study for a test worth 5 percent of their grade over going to a basketball game

I hadn't gotten the feeling that many were already seeing the players as guilty.  But that's just what I've been reading, I'm not there, so I dont really know what the general feeling on campus is.  I find it hard to believe that so many of the students would already be judging people as guilty...

[Shanunu]

I hadn't gotten the feeling that many were already seeing the players as guilty.  But that's just what I've been reading, I'm not there, so I dont really know what the general feeling on campus is.  I find it hard to believe that so many of the students would already be judging people as guilty...

I get the feeling that quite a few people on campus are judging them as guilty. Even if they are completely exonerated of guilt down the line through a trial, their reputations will still be tarnished, and many people will still feel that there should have been consequences for them (such as being kicked off the team) regardless of the outcome.

[GO_MU02]

I get the feeling that quite a few people on campus are judging them as guilty. Even if they are completely exonerated of guilt down the line through a trial, their reputations will still be tarnished, and many people will still feel that there should have been consequences for them (such as being kicked off the team) regardless of the outcome.

I hope that's not true.  I'd be more than a little disappointed in the students if they not only jumped to the conclusion that they are guilty, but if they want consequences even if they are found to have done nothing wrong.

[foreverwarriors]

I hope that's not true.  I'd be more than a little disappointed in the students if they not only jumped to the conclusion that they are guilty, but if they want consequences even if they are found to have done nothing wrong.

I could never imagine college students jumping to conclusions before facts come out 

You do realize these are athletes we are still talking about right? Any time athletes are involved, a lot of people will automatically assume preferential treatment regardless of the facts of the case...and unfortunately, that judgement will follow them around for many years.

[HouWarrior]

It is amazing how many students are ready to put the players down as guilty already. Probably the same kids that complain that we should spend less on the basketball program, and opt to study for a test worth 5 percent of their grade over going to a basketball game

If we are talking Dez Bryant in the company of friends who wear their pants too low, the benefit of doubt is given... maybe.

Its the nature of the offense here that has many jumping to guilt. Having defended sexual harrassment cases, one of the greatest difficulties is even when you think you can prove a false accusation, or have inconsistencies which indicate one is not truthful... it is still very difficult.....because the man/woman encounter is private--with  no other witnesses, and it ends up a swearing match.

Maybe there was a day when the woman accuser bore the burden of proof. In sexual harrassment cases now, a defendant is simply foolish not to realize that ALL doubts are likely resolved by any jury in favor of the accuser, and against the defendant/s. When it is he said she said, no lawyering is going to control any outcome---the defendant MUST settle, or risk high stakes, and very possible loss.

Today's social contract (for Burke fans--lol), is when a sexual harrassment case depends ultimately on he said she said the  female accuser is accorded almost all doubts in her favor, and a juror is politically incorrect, in its peer dynamic to act otherwise. Curiously, Women are more likely to doubt a female accuser, than are men. We ask jurors to swear to impartiality, but we would not have jury consultants if , in fact there were not scientific, and psycological predispositions, among us all.

To defend anyone on sexual harrassment, is to recognize the scales tip to the accuser---fact of life.

[RawdogDX]

Again, it's not the matter of her going to public safety first. It's a matter of her not going to police for six months.

Well that isn't what you said is it?

[Shanunu]

I hope that's not true.  I'd be more than a little disappointed in the students if they not only jumped to the conclusion that they are guilty, but if they want consequences even if they are found to have done nothing wrong.

I also feel, based on who I've talked to regarding this, that more of the girls are finding these players guilty than guys are. Most guys are taking a wait and see position, and want to see the legal process go through before passing judgement. I have a friend who lives in Humphrey, and she feels unsafe living there now. It's unfortunate that people are jumping to conclusions so quickly, but as houwarrior said, the assumption of guilt tends to be already there for the accused in society today.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Latest clips

http://www.wisn.com/r/27363410/detail.html

[Pakuni]

Well that isn't what you said is it?

Actually, it is.
I admit the first post to which you responded wasn't terribly clear or well written, so I clarified last night by saying ...
"I'm not suggesting that the fact she didn't take it to cops instead of or before public safety is going to raise questions, but the fact she didn't take it to cops at all."
Pretty much the same thing I said today.

[Pakuni]

Latest clips

http://www.wisn.com/r/27363410/detail.html

Thank goodness we have the responsible TV news outlets to give us uninformed comments from random students.

[muchalktalk]

Pakuni - based on what I have read, the victim was allowing the school to handle the matter.  After the school did not take action (in her eyes by finding them not in violation of the sexual assault), she went to the police.  My only question is when did the school's investigation come to completion, just now?

How serious is the penalty for violating the Harassment Code?  Given what we know about Buzz, I would have thought he would have instituted some type of penalty to send a message to the team.  

[RawdogDX]

Actually, it is.
I admit the first post to which you responded wasn't terribly clear or well written, so I clarified last night by saying ...
"I'm not suggesting that the fact she didn't take it to cops instead of or before public safety is going to raise questions, but the fact she didn't take it to cops at all."
Pretty much the same thing I said today.

Yes, I understand that it would be a easier to try cases if women wandered directly into police stations, battered and bloody, with DNA evidence dripping down their legs.

Neither of your first two statements mentioned 6 months.  The time is a reasonable thing to play into a trial both for motivation and evidence.  But I didn't see the post that said she waited 6 months.  I thought she reported it and it had been under investigation.  

The point i was responding to was your comment that the order of which uniformed, law enforcement, agency it was reported to first would play a major role in the mind of a jury.  

Not speaking to this case particularly.  It shouldn't matter because most girls who report assaults on campus do so to public safety.  The reason that happens is, as stated earlier, they are not the ones making the call, it is often the front desk and the RA's.  Those people are trained to go to public safety first.  So (in general) why would that be held against the victim?

[Lennys Tap]

If we are talking Dez Bryant in the company of friends who wear their pants too low, the benefit of doubt is given... maybe.

Its the nature of the offense here that has many jumping to guilt. Having defended sexual harrassment cases, one of the greatest difficulties is even when you think you can prove a false accusation, or have inconsistencies which indicate one is not truthful... it is still very difficult.....because the man/woman encounter is private--with  no other witnesses, and it ends up a swearing match.

Maybe there was a day when the woman accuser bore the burden of proof. In sexual harrassment cases now, a defendant is simply foolish not to realize that ALL doubts are likely resolved by any jury in favor of the accuser, and against the defendant/s. When it is he said she said, no lawyering is going to control any outcome---the defendant MUST settle, or risk high stakes, and very possible loss.

Today's social contract (for Burke fans--lol), is when a sexual harrassment case depends ultimately on he said she said the  female accuser is accorded almost all doubts in her favor, and a juror is politically incorrect, in its peer dynamic to act otherwise. Curiously, Women are more likely to doubt a female accuser, than are men. We ask jurors to swear to impartiality, but we would not have jury consultants if , in fact there were not scientific, and psycological predispositions, among us all.

To defend anyone on sexual harrassment, is to recognize the scales tip to the accuser---fact of life.

In the "bad old days" real victims of sexual harrassment often had their complaints trivialized and were understandably reticent to move forward. In the "bad new days" the accused is deemed guilty even when found innocent.

[groove]

so saying 'nice ass' as you pass a girl at a party is out nowadays?

[🏀]

so saying 'nice ass' as you pass a girl at a party is out nowadays?

At a University event, you could be charged with sexual harassment by the Student Conduct board.

[LON]

I also feel, based on who I've talked to regarding this, that more of the girls are finding these players guilty than guys are. Most guys are taking a wait and see position, and want to see the legal process go through before passing judgement. I have a friend who lives in Humphrey, and she feels unsafe living there now. It's unfortunate that people are jumping to conclusions so quickly, but as houwarrior said, the assumption of guilt tends to be already there for the accused in society today.

She feels unsafe now or has felt unsafe the past 5+ months that she's lived there?

[groove]

At a University event, you could be charged with sexual harassment by the Student Conduct board.

sad state of the nation