This board was so much better 2 years ago

[Aughnanure]

As I write this, here are some of the titles on the first page ....

* The worst grade school coach isn't dumb enough to call for a foul at the end
* Could this be a win and still no SOTG?
* Why is Blue playing?
* What does Junior Cadougan bring to the court, especially on offense?
* If we lose do we go to NIT?
* Get ahold of yourselves people!
* We suck.
* Recruit someone, anyone taller than 6-7!!!
* Buzz Needs to Hire a Defensive Coach Add On: Buzz Needs to Hire a FT Coach

----

Isn't the sign of a good team that when they struggle, they win?  And ALL teams struggle from time to time!  You can look it up.

We are now 15 - 9 (6 - 5) and the whining and complaining around hear is deafening.  Buzz is stupid and we suck (that was one of the threads above!)

365 days ago our record was 15 - 8 (6 - 5) and everyone loved this team.  Buzz was a genius and we were a scrappy team.

---

Here's is the problem ... too many people had too high an expectation for this team.  They thought it was 2 years ago and expected us to be 20 - 4 (9 - 2) as we were at this same point in 2009.  They probably also expected us to be ranked #8 like we were at this point two years ago.  This was fantasy.

So, yes this board has gotten worse, much worse.   And it's starting to be not fun to read all the crappy analysis and whining about stupid stuff.  

Please stop with the FTs, Junior, we need "bigs" and Blue threads.  It's all been said a million times over already.  The new ones add exactly zero to the conversation, because no one is smart enough to add anything to these subjects.

Is this the reason BMA725 no longer posts here? (One of the few guys that really gets it and stopped posting here.)

This. I've been agreeing with everything you've been saying lately. Everyone needs to Chill the F out and realize its a GAME not a science experiment where you think you know what the outcome should be and why before even trying it.

[TJ]

In response to the above post, I am trying to figure out why anyone had high expectations for this team this year, and why some expected improvement over last season.  When a team loses a first round draft pick (Lazar) and two other seniors who were starters/major contributers, wasn't even the hope of a return trip to March Madness a little bit of a stretch?  Personally, I like this team.  They are a group of kids that work their butts off and represent Marquette in a positive way.  For a little perspective, look at the box scores of games yesterday.  there were a lot of ranked teams that were upset by lowly teams, ie, Rutgers beating Villanova.  Teams do have bad nights, but our guys worked through it and came out with a W.  I am not saying that the team is exempt from criticism, but you should also being willing to give them credit when they deserve it.  Last night the team did what many posters have been bitching about--they played solid defense when their offense wasn't working.

It's college basketball - everyone loses players every year.  That doesn't mean you fold it up and quit.  Of course the expectation is improvement over last year - why wouldn't it be?  We were losing Lazar, yes, but we had Jimmy and DJO, we had a top recruiting class turning into sophomores, we had another top recruiting classes coming in with our highest rated recruit in a long time, we had some new-found size for a change, etc.  Why does everyone write our own players off every preseason lately?

Re: "teams do have bad nights" - of course.  But our team has a history of playing 1 half of a 2 half game, while phoning it in for the other half.  They did it again last night.  It's frustrating that except for home vs ND they haven't been able to string together 40 minutes straight of good basketball in conference.  They either come out great and lose it at halftime or come out flat and figure something out at halftime.  Why can't they come out good and finish that way?  All this makes it feel less like a "bad night" and more like their m.o.

[leever]

Wasn't Abe Froman on board 2 years ago?

What screen name is he using now?

[rocky_warrior]

To the point of "This board was so much better 2 years ago", we really do want to provide a good forum / wiki / website experience for Marquette fans of all types. 

There's only 2 things that I can say have absolutely changed in the past 2 years:
  1) We have a lot more users now.
and
  2) Unfortunately, we have to do more moderation now than we used to, likely because the site has grown. 

Now, just to cover the stats...two years ago on Feb 10, 2009 we played Villanova at their place and got clobbered (L 102-84).  On that day, we had:
*****
44 New Topics, 397 Posts, 3 New Members, and a max of 201 people online.
*****

Fast forward two years, we've added over 2300 new users and yesterday (comparing since it was a game day), we had :
*****
40 New Topics, 533 Posts, 3 New members, and max of 411 people online.
*****

From the breakdown, it looks like we've got a lot more people discussing fewer topics.  I'm not suggesting that it's good or bad, but clearly we have a larger % of Marquette fans discussing the topics than a couple of year.  That probably means we've got more diverse opinions (including more "dumb" posts, and more "good" posts) than two years ago. We've also got a lot more silent readers apparently.

I don't want to make this a long discussion, just thought I'd look at the numbers since you brought it up.  We want to keep encouraging site growth (and yes, still keeping it free, and ad-free), so if people have suggestions on how to make it a better place, feel free to shoot me a PM, send an e-mail to muscoop@muscoop.com, or drop your suggestion on our suggestions board.  It may take us a while, but we'll look at everything.

[Tugg Speedman]

This thread is about the whining and bitching on this board.  So why is the so bad?  Many agree it is getting bad. (recall my thread a few weeks ago about MU Nation melting down)

Some have suggested that the team is "disappointing".  So, they are not meeting expectations.

I agree with this, many on this board must have had higher expectations which is why they whine and whine and whine about FTs. Blue, Junior, Buzz, fans at the BC, defense, etc.

But as Chicos noted, the pre-season BE coaches poll had us 8th and after 11 games, we are tied for 8th.  We are meeting these expectations.

So what did everyone expect?  Is this team failing to meet those expectations?  If it is not about underachieving, then why the constant whining?

[Hards Alumni]

This thread is about the whining and bitching on this board.  So why is the so bad?  Many agree it is getting bad. (recall my thread a few weeks ago about MU Nation melting down)

Some have suggested that the team is "disappointing".  So, they are not meeting expectations.

I agree with this, many on this board must have had higher expectations which is why they whine and whine and whine about FTs. Blue, Junior, Buzz, fans at the BC, defense, etc.

But as Chicos noted, the pre-season BE coaches poll had us 8th and after 11 games, we are tied for 8th.  We are meeting these expectations.

So what did everyone expect?  Is this team failing to meet those expectations?  If it is not about underachieving, then why the constant whining?

Spot on.  2 years of over achieving leads to the expectation that we will overachieve every year.

Reality can be a real bitch for some people.

[SoCalwarrior]

This thread is about the whining and bitching on this board.  So why is the so bad?  Many agree it is getting bad. (recall my thread a few weeks ago about MU Nation melting down)

Some have suggested that the team is "disappointing".  So, they are not meeting expectations.

I agree with this, many on this board must have had higher expectations which is why they whine and whine and whine about FTs. Blue, Junior, Buzz, fans at the BC, defense, etc.

But as Chicos noted, the pre-season BE coaches poll had us 8th and after 11 games, we are tied for 8th.  We are meeting these expectations.

So what did everyone expect?  Is this team failing to meet those expectations?  If it is not about underachieving, then why the constant whining?

Perception versus reality. There are way more positive posts on this board, than negative posts, but you tend to focus on the negative ones.  Hey, bad news sells, so I don't blame you for believing MU Nation is melting down. But the truth is, the negative posts generally come from a handful of usual suspects that result in a slew of posts attacking the negative poster or his post.  Take any thread and count the number of negative posts against the positive ones and you will find that your premise is wrong.

[Tugg Speedman]

Perception versus reality. There are way more positive posts on this board, than negative posts, but you tend to focus on the negative ones.  Hey, bad news sells, so I don't blame you for believing MU Nation is melting down. But the truth is, the negative posts generally come from a handful of usual suspects that result in a slew of posts attacking the negative poster or his post.  Take any thread and count the number of negative posts against the positive ones and you will find that your premise is wrong.

Not just my premise .... a lot of people think this.

[TJ]

This thread is about the whining and bitching on this board.  So why is the so bad?  Many agree it is getting bad. (recall my thread a few weeks ago about MU Nation melting down)

Some have suggested that the team is "disappointing".  So, they are not meeting expectations.

I agree with this, many on this board must have had higher expectations which is why they whine and whine and whine about FTs. Blue, Junior, Buzz, fans at the BC, defense, etc.

But as Chicos noted, the pre-season BE coaches poll had us 8th and after 11 games, we are tied for 8th.  We are meeting these expectations.

So what did everyone expect?  Is this team failing to meet those expectations?  If it is not about underachieving, then why the constant whining?

Personally, I just don't know what to think about this team.  They're exciting and frustrating at the same time.  I have every confidence that they put themselves in a position to win in almost every game they play, yet I have little confidence in them pulling it out - especially if it requires a last possession basket because they probably won't even get a shot off.  I feel like they're going to come back from every deficit, but they're going to lose every lead.  I feel like they have played their best game for a full 40 minutes in only 1 conference game so far - for the most part they play like Dr Jeckyl for one half and Mr Hyde for the other.  (That's not a dig at their effort - I don't think they stop trying, but they seem to play poorly for 1/2 of seemingly every game.)  It's a very strange and confusing year.  It leads to what you are calling whining.

[jaybilaswho?]

It could be worse... we could be South Florida (http://thebullspen.com/index.php?topic=77956.0). They have posters screaming Boycott and yanking the players schollies.

Disclaimer: I am not defending the negativity on this board in anyway. I find it more than off putting.

[Aughnanure]

Re: "teams do have bad nights" - of course.  But our team has a history of playing 1 half of a 2 half game, while phoning it in for the other half.  They did it again last night.  It's frustrating that except for home vs ND they haven't been able to string together 40 minutes straight of good basketball in conference.  They either come out great and lose it at halftime or come out flat and figure something out at halftime.  Why can't they come out good and finish that way?  All this makes it feel less like a "bad night" and more like their m.o.

How much college basketball do you watch? Inconsistency is a part of NCAA athletics in general. The we havent put together "40 minutes of complete basketball" argument is silly and doesnt really address any legitimate concern (you do know the other team is trying to win also, right?). Only the VERY good teams put up consistent 40 minutes consistently. I'm willing to bet this criticism is being applied to 85% of all teams by their own fans. Its a part of sports. If the game was only 20 minutes long we'd be dissecting that 5-6 minute period.

Now I'm not saying consistency can never be part of a criticism, but I think there are more relevant issues that should be brought up for why we can't stay consistent.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Perception versus reality. There are way more positive posts on this board, than negative posts, but you tend to focus on the negative ones. 

I dare say, vast majority...ahem...but no question people lock in one certain things.  Or, a post may be 85% neutral or positive and 15% critical, but suddenly that post is labeled "negative" for that 15%. 

[Stretchdeltsig]

To AnotherMU84... Don't understand why you condemn bloggers who want MU to win and do well.  If you don't like to read the live game blogs, don't.  If you don't like to read this blog,don't.  But, don't put MU alums down.   It makes you look very cynical and stupid.

[4everwarriors]

Two years ago I was averaging 20 putts/round. Now, it's 22 putts/round. Life's a bitch.

[MU B2002]

Some day you are going to have to play 18 holes instead of 9.

[TJ]

How much college basketball do you watch? Inconsistency is a part of NCAA athletics in general. The we havent put together "40 minutes of complete basketball" argument is silly and doesnt really address any legitimate concern (you do know the other team is trying to win also, right?). Only the VERY good teams put up consistent 40 minutes consistently. I'm willing to bet this criticism is being applied to 85% of all teams by their own fans. Its a part of sports. If the game was only 20 minutes long we'd be dissecting that 5-6 minute period.

Now I'm not saying consistency can never be part of a criticism, but I think there are more relevant issues that should be brought up for why we can't stay consistent.

Are you saying you haven't noticed the trend this team has displayed of playing good for one half and bad for the other.  It's happened in almost every conference game so far.  I'm sorry my general point didn't break it down into every single reason why.  We tend to spend really long stretches getting away from attacking the lane, which produces our best offense; during that time we don't seem to be able to even get good jump shots so we end up with long scoring droughts; we tend to get sloppy on defense for long stretches and allow easy baskets because of bad rotations; how much detail do you want?

The point was that last night, rather than a bad night, almost seemed like more of the same - played bad one half and played good the other half.

And why do you question my college basketball watching ability?  What does that help?  I'm not an expert, my opinion is based solely on what I observe while watching, I haven't played on an organized team in a long time, and my opinion is generally meaningless.  Is that what you wanted?  Congratulations.

[Aughnanure]

Are you saying you haven't noticed the trend this team has displayed of playing good for one half and bad for the other.  It's happened in almost every conference game so far.  I'm sorry my general point didn't break it down into every single reason why.  We tend to spend really long stretches getting away from attacking the lane, which produces our best offense; during that time we don't seem to be able to even get good jump shots so we end up with long scoring droughts; we tend to get sloppy on defense for long stretches and allow easy baskets because of bad rotations; how much detail do you want?

The point was that last night, rather than a bad night, almost seemed like more of the same - played bad one half and played good the other half.

And why do you question my college basketball watching ability?  What does that help?  I'm not an expert, my opinion is based solely on what I observe while watching, I haven't played on an organized team in a long time, and my opinion is generally meaningless.  Is that what you wanted?  Congratulations.

No, my point was that you don't seem to have watched many college basketball games OTHER than Marquette. Thus, your focus seems solely on their play and not in comparison to how other teams play. Just listen to other fans and columnists watching their own team... inconsistency is always a part of criticism. Watching other teams, you consistently see one team have a great first half and lose it in the 2nd. Im just sick of people acting like this is somehow a rarity and that something is uniquely wrong with Buzz or our players that allows this to happen. We have our weaknesses, and they are generally very deadly when they can be exploited.

Basketball has always been a game of momentum. Giant runs are a part of the game. Its the great teams that minimize those runs, are able to score to slow down a team's emotion. NBA games can have games where a team goes from up 20+ to losing at the end of the 2nd quarter. Its a hard to quantify and is an easily applied criticism.

I dont understand what it is about fans, but the focus so often seems to be more on how the other team lost game rather than how we won it.

[Aughnanure]

To AnotherMU84... Don't understand why you condemn bloggers who want MU to win and do well.  If you don't like to read the live game blogs, don't.  If you don't like to read this blog,don't.  But, don't put MU alums down.   It makes you look very cynical and stupid.

First off this isnt a blog, and we are not bloggers. Secondly, people on this board do not equally have a right to control the discussion of this board simply because they can post more often and start more threads.

Believe or not, this board is the one of the most transparent representations of our fan base and maybe we should sometimes act like we care about that more, before we post.

[Aughnanure]

Perception versus reality. There are way more positive posts on this board, than negative posts, but you tend to focus on the negative ones.  Hey, bad news sells, so I don't blame you for believing MU Nation is melting down. But the truth is, the negative posts generally come from a handful of usual suspects that result in a slew of posts attacking the negative poster or his post.  Take any thread and count the number of negative posts against the positive ones and you will find that your premise is wrong.

The negative ones are exceptionally more inflammatory than the positive ones and too often define and control any thread discussion.

[brewcity77]

I dare say, vast majority...ahem...but no question people lock in one certain things.  Or, a post may be 85% neutral or positive and 15% critical, but suddenly that post is labeled "negative" for that 15%.

It may just be my perception, but I don't think this thread is really about you. It's more about the flamers like NMB/Warriors1965 (same person?) that simply bash and bash and bash. Not having been here 2 years ago, I can't say for certain, but my guess is you've been a constant. Some people may find that a thorn in the side at times, but what you say wouldn't make a difference because it'd be in a similar vein from then to now. You didn't start any of the whiny threads that people are on about, and haven't been propagating any negativity for the past week.

Regardless of what some may say, you aren't the problem, Chicos, and you aren't the issue at hand.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I realize that, but the point remains regardless of who is posting most people and most posts are not negative but certain individuals look for things that aren't there. 

[Tugg Speedman]

To AnotherMU84... Don't understand why you condemn bloggers who want MU to win and do well.  If you don't like to read the live game blogs, don't.  If you don't like to read this blog,don't.  But, don't put MU alums down.   It makes you look very cynical and stupid.

I was here two years ago and last year and I thought the discourse was much better.  Yes their was criticism but it was thoughtful and directed.  Their was also threads noting the positives.  We also had great regular posters (BMA725) that are not here anymore and that is a loss for us.

Now its mindless criticism repeated over and over without any thought (FTs, Blue ... you know the list).

Let me ask this .... this year's team is one of the highest ranked offenses ever seen in Milwaukee.  Yet, almost no threads/posts praise this aspect of the team.  In fact, you'd think our problem was offense.  I've read a million posts about Blue's shot, FT shooting, Junior and CO scoring.  

This team has no problem scoring and if any team in the history if MU can carry a struggling shooter, it is this one.  Yet the negative posts all focus on scoring.  Why?  Because novice basketball people can only see/understand scoring.  They don't "get" the defensive aspects of the game.  Since all the complaining is about scoring from an elite offensive team, it tells us its low quality comments.

I'm not against criticism.  Cracked Sidewalks has outstanding criticism.  Their posts our defensive woes focusing on Effective FG% was first rate.  CS's post about pressing is another great read.

I'm not asking for something has never been.  I'm asking for the discussion we had two years ago.

Rocky, dare I say it, Scoop is becoming the Scout board!

[NavinRJohnson]

Rocky, dare I say it, Scoop is becoming the Scout board!

I'm curious what this means. I haven't stepped foot over there in years, but my impression is that that board is highly moderated, sunshine, and lollipop BS froma a bunch of blowholes who lik eto argue about who is the bigger MU fan.

[brewcity77]

Some posters, however, are continuously negative and nothing more than trolls. I give you...

warriors1965

Just glancing at the first page of posts, it's clear that this guy is negative around 85-90% of the time. I don't think that's hyperbole, the evidence is right there. Trolling back to Mbakwe, creating a thread to essentially call our coach an idiot, trashing Blue constantly, there are barely any positive posts there.

And beyond him, some of the thread titles on the first page are more than a bit disgraceful, imo:

• Why is Blue playing? Even if it's meant as a constructive criticism, there are far more respectful and tactful ways of asking the question.
  
• What does Junior Cadougan bring to the court, especially on offense Again, are you telling me this looks like a positive? Another thread title ripping a 20-year-old kid. As dsfire said in that thread, "There were already two topics about Cadougan's game on the first page of topics... or was this just intended as a dig at him?"
  
• The worst grade school coach isn't dumb enough to call for a foul at the end Yeah...I think the negativity is self-evident.
  
• Free Throw Shooting = Mental Toughness This thread exists to say our kids are weak mentally.

And what really gets me...all this comes AFTER A WIN!!! And not just any win, but a rather impressive comeback win from 16 points down in the second half. Against Bucknell, we trailed by as much as 13 in the second half. Looking back, I can't remember another comeback this big in either of the past two seasons? Does anyone know when the last time was that we came back to win after trailing by 16 or more in the second half? According to kenpom.com, South Florida had an 90% chance of winning at the 14:20 mark, and an 83% chance of winning at about the 9:30 mark. By all rights, we should have lost that game. How many times have we thrown away big leads to lose? Louisville, Notre Dame, I'd even count UConn as one that hurt to see get away.

In the past, WE were the hard luck team. WE were the guys wringing our hands, asking "what if?". What if Vandy doesn't get the open man under the basket? What if Pitt doesn't shoot an insane percentage from 3? What if Louisville doesn't turn a 71% MU win into a 100% UL win in the course of about 30 seconds (it took 5 mins plus, but looking at kenpom's probabilities)? What if we hold on against Notre Dame and UConn? Well, the answer is that we're 20-4 (10-1), atop the Big East conference, and with our remaining schedule, in the discussion for a #1 seed in the NCAA tournament.

If wishes were fishes than beggars would feast. In the past, every other team seemed to get their wish against us. Now, the screw finally turns for one night, we get our wish of a huge comeback, and do we get celebrations? Do we see joy, jubilation, and glee? (The third, I guess yes, if you watch Fox Tuesday nights) Of course not. We get pissing and moaning, like a bunch of spoiled brats throwing their toys out of the pram. It's not good enough to lose, it's not good enough to win. We have to beat everyone by 40+ points or it was a crap performance. Let's look at those thread titles again...

• Why is Blue playing? Because his defense helped spark the amazing comeback win when we clamped down with the full-court press.
  
• What does Junior Cadougan bring to the court, especially on offense? A solid backup presence, excellent passing, a very good A/T ratio, and the ability to occasionally drive to the hoop and draw fouls.
  
• The worst grade school coach isn't dumb enough to call for a foul at the end You're an idiot. Buzz made the call we have all wished he would in the past, and for the love of god, WE WON THE DAMN GAME!
  
• Free Throw Shooting = Mental Toughness We came back from 16 down in the second half. Does a mentally weak team do that? Maybe the guys were tired after an amazing comeback. And besides, I may have mentioned it before, but WE WON THE DAMN GAME!!!

Does this team have flaws? Yes. Point me to one team in the history of basketball that doesn't. But they also have positives. And after a win, after an incredible, exhilarating win that I'm betting this entire board had written off as a loss already with 15 minutes to play, it's time to embrace some of those positives. Last year, I felt like the turning point was the UConn game. We finally won a tough game in a hostile atmosphere against a team that we didn't match up particularly well with. From there, we went 8-2 in Big East play, made a nice run in the conference tournament, and got into the NCAAs. This year, maybe this game is the turning point, where we win a game on the road that we should have lost against a team that was pointed out beforehand to do all the things well that give us trouble (see Cracked Sidewalks). Maybe we can take this great comeback and use the energy to help us finally get that road win against Georgetown on Sunday. And after some home cooking, come into UConn having won 4 in a row and get another crack at them in the same building where we beat them a year ago. And with our remaining schedule, avoid the bad loss and even win out. Of course, that isn't likely, we'll probably drop another 1-3 games, but that still puts us at double digit wins, into the NCAAs, and with a chance to make something of a season that has been fraught with difficulty.

As Another MU84 just said, I'm also not against criticism. But these mindless rants every time a guy makes one step out of line is silly. Last year it took us time to learn how to deal with adversity. We hoped that those lessons would translate to this year's team, but they didn't. Instead, we've had to learn it all over. Let's enjoy the positive lesson, just for a few days, rather than acting like spoiled little rich brats who just pissed the bed.

[GGGG]

Exactly brewcity...couldn't have said it better.

Go on the USF board.  They actually have reason to be negative about that game, and they are nowhere near as bad as this group.