Packers vs. Bears Insanity

[🏀]

Bears fans are stupid.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/18/bernstein-bears-fans-need-to-shut-up/

[ATWizJr]

I hope you are not pinning your hopes on the bears forcing a lot of packer penalties.

People are over estimating how many penalties the bears "forced"  Yes I remember at least one instance of holding after getting beat, but there was also some bone headed, unforced penalties as well. (Roughing the passer,  pass intereference, stupid rookie mistakes.)  The packer offensive line is much better than the first game. Tauscher struggled in that game and has been replaced. Clifton is playing near a pro bowl level. Look at the game at lambeau the packers had 3 penalties for 30 plus yards, that is more like what we will see.

Totally agree.  Packers had 18 penalties in game 1,  4 in game 2.

[NavinRJohnson]

Totally agree.  Packers had 18 penalties in game 1,  4 in game 2.

That first game will have about as much impact on this game, as the Bears' loss to Seattle did last weekend.

[TallTitan34]

Bears fans are stupid.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/01/18/bernstein-bears-fans-need-to-shut-up/

Terry is ripping Packer fans right now.

[DegenerateDish]

It'd be naive not to discount crowd noise and making line calls, and that not influencing this game. Much easier to make line calls at home than on the road. I'm not saying the Pack is going to have 8 offensive penalties again, but you have to at least realize it might be an issue.

To coincide with that point, the two officials working conference title games this weekend are Terry McAuley and the immortal Ed Hochuli. No crew throws the flag more than Hochuli's. If he gets the Pack/Bears, expect a lot of calls.

[hairy worthen]

To coincide with that point, the two officials working conference title games this weekend are Terry McAuley and the immortal Ed Hochuli. No crew throws the flag more than Hochuli's. If he gets the Pack/Bears, expect a lot of calls.

Ed Hochuli???  nooooooooooooo!

There maybe some penalties, but it won't be because the bears force them.

[TallTitan34]

Bad news!   Lee DeWyze who may be singing the national anthem instead of Blackhawk legend Jim Cornelison is a second cousin of Aaron Rodgers.

[NavinRJohnson]

It'd be naive not to discount crowd noise and making line calls, and that not influencing this game. Much easier to make line calls at home than on the road. I'm not saying the Pack is going to have 8 offensive penalties again, but you have to at least realize it might be an issue.

Packers offensive penalties in their last 6 road games...

@ATL (playoffs) - 1
@ Philly - 1
@ NE - 1
@ DET - 2
@ ATL - 2
@ MIN - 0

Now, unless Soldier Field has suddenly become known for incredible crowd noise, I can and will conclude that it will be no tougher on the Packers Sunday than it has been the last 2 months. As suggested above, the Packers may commit some penalties, but I don't suspect crowd noise will be a major factor. That game in week 3 was an obvious anomaly caused by poor play, and a lack of concentration, not noise.

[NavinRJohnson]

Bad news!   Lee DeWyze who may be singing the national anthem instead of Blackhawk legend Jim Cornelison is a second cousin of Aaron Rodgers.

That is bad news...for Aaron Rodgers.

[DegenerateDish]

Packers offensive penalties in their last 6 road games...

@ATL (playoffs) - 1
@ Philly - 1
@ NE - 1
@ DET - 2
@ ATL - 2
@ MIN - 0

Now, unless Soldier Field has suddenly become known for incredible crowd noise, I can and will conclude that it will be no tougher on the Packers Sunday than it has been the last 2 months. As suggested above, the Packers may commit some penalties, but I don't suspect crowd noise will be a major factor. That game in week 3 was an obvious anomaly caused by poor play, and a lack of concentration, not noise.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Julius Peppers does not play for any of those teams, correct?

[NavinRJohnson]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Julius Peppers does not play for any of those teams, correct?

No, but your post was in reference to crowd noise. Does Julius Peppers have some superhuman ability to create crowd noise.

BTW, Julius Pepper does not play for those teams, but Jared Allen, John Abraham, Ndamukong Suh, Vince Wilfork, all do.

[Moonboots]

No, but your post was in reference to crowd noise. Does Julius Peppers have some superhuman ability to create crowd noise.

BTW, Julius Pepper does not play for those teams, but Jared Allen, John Abraham, Ndamukong Suh, Vince Wilfork, all do.

BUT DON'T YOU GET IT? THEY AREN'T JULIUS PEPPERS. HE CAUSED ALL 18 PENALTIES BACK IN WEEK 3. PEPPERS > WHITE. PEPPERS > DEACON JONES. PEPPERS > BRUCE SMITH.


Now that I've got that off my chest, I think we need to address something. Peppers is a game changer, for sure, but I think people are giving him way too much credit for the Packers' penalty implosion week 3. It was a historically bad performance as far as discipline is concerned, and it still took a late James Jones turnover for the Bears to win. At home. The Packers don't even have the same right tackle as week 3, and have handled premier pass rushers on the road much better since, you know, 17 weeks ago.

To say what happened week 3 will affect Sunday makes as much sense as thinking that what happened between the Packers and Falcons in the reg. season would influence last week. Or, for that matter, the Seahawks and Bears.

At this point in the season with how they're playing, if both teams bring their A game, the Packers will win. More playmakers on both offense or defense. And if McCarthy is smart, he won't give the Bears' BEST playmaker a chance to touch the ball. Give the Bears 10-15 extra yards and kick it out of bounds, I don't care. Just don't give Hester a chance to swing momentum.

[DegenerateDish]

No, but your post was in reference to crowd noise. Does Julius Peppers have some superhuman ability to create crowd noise.

BTW, Julius Pepper does not play for those teams, but Jared Allen, John Abraham, Ndamukong Suh, Vince Wilfork, all do.

Crowd noise (to whatever extent you want it to be, you seem to be taking issue with it, so I'll leave it at your call) + Julius Peppers (Defensive Player of the Year candidate, better than any of the people you mentioned) = tougher to make line calls, and leads to things like back to back "False start, #65 offense" (I realize Tauscher is on IR now).

Packer offensive penalties that day:

PENALTY on GB-76-C.Clifton, False Start
PENALTY on GB-73-D.Colledge, Offensive Holding
PENALTY on GB-76-C.Clifton, Illegal Formation
PENALTY on GB-71-J.Sitton, Offensive Holding
PENALTY on GB-65-M.Tauscher, Offensive Holding
PENALTY on GB-65-M.Tauscher, False Start
PENALTY on GB-65-M.Tauscher, False Start
PENALTY on GB-12-A.Rodgers, Delay of Game
PENALTY on GB-76-C.Clifton, False Start

I didn't include Rodgers intentional grounding penalty, FWIW.

Four of the five offensive lineman that day had penalties. If it was a "historically bad performance" or "anomaly", that is a hell of a bad performance by one group, and a huge coincidence that nothing factored into it. By that reasoning, they could have played a Sisters of the Poor that day and had the exact same performance. According to the logic I'm hearing, the presence and play of Peppers and any crowd noise (or lack there of apparently) were not contributors to a horrendous offensive line performance that night.

Again, all I'm saying is not to be naive, and discount crowd noise and the presence of Peppers this Sunday. Not saying either of those factors are a guarantee of a Bears victory, but no need to be football ignorant and ignore either variable.

[Josey Wales]

First of all, you're not on the team.

Second, all those times the Packers were flagged for holding penalties (specifically holding Peppers), those penalties had nothing to do with the linemen getting beat, huh? It was simply the Packers beating themselves? I assume then, that you also believe that the Bears beat themselves in Lambeau since Cutler threw some really bad passes. The Packers certainly had nothing to do with it, right?

Finally, this game will come down to how well Cutler plays. If he takes care of the ball, the Bears will win. If not...I don't even want to say it. I think that he and Martz play smart, run the ball and head to the Super Bowl!

Bears 17-13

First, I say "we" when talking about the Packers and MU basketball. Get over it.

Second, Committing 18 penalties is considered the Packers beating themselves because over the rest of the season they proved to be very good at not committing penalties, so this was an anomaly. And, sorry Bears fan, Peppers did not cause all 18.

Also, the Bears did not beat themselves at Lambeau due to Cutlers "bad passes", because Cutler is very prone to make many terrible throws in every game, that is just the way he plays.

[NavinRJohnson]

Now that is one heck of a strawman argument...Who said they were not factors? Who's ignoring their presence? If you want to conclude that the noise and Peppers were bigger factors than they were, go for it.

Explain something to me though...If Julius Peppers is in such a class by himself relative to causing penalties, and coupled with the Soldier Field crowd noise creates such problems for opponents,  wouldn't it be safe to conclude that the Bears would be near the top of the league in opponents penalties? Even with that 18 penalty aberration against Green Bay, the Bears rank 20th in the league in opponents penalties per game at 5.5, with very little change at home at 5.8 (18th), and the exact same 5.5 average as last season when Julius Peppers was a Panther. In fact if you take out even half of those penalties against the Packers in that game, their average would drop them down to about 30th in the league.

[Moonboots]

Now that is one heck of a strawman argument...Who said they were not factors? Who's ignoring their presence? If you want to conclude that the noise and Peppers were bigger factors than they were, go for it.

Explain something to me though...If Julius Peppers is in such a class by himself relative to causing penalties, and coupled with the Soldier Field crowd noise creates such problems for opponents,  wouldn't it be safe to conclude that the Bears would be near the top of the league in opponents penalties. Even with that 18 penalty aberration against Green Bay, the Bears rank 20th in the league in opponents penalties per game at 5.5, with very little change at home at 5.8 (18th), and the exact same 5.5 average as last season when Julius Peppers was a Panther. In fact if you take out even half of those penalties against the Packers in that game, their average would drop them down to about 30th in the league.

Exactly the research I was just doing. Well done.

[Josey Wales]

Now that is one heck of a strawman argument...Who said they were not factors? Who's ignoring their presence? If you want to conclude that the noise and Peppers were bigger factors than they were, go for it.

Explain something to me though...If Julius Peppers is in such a class by himself relative to causing penalties, and coupled with the Soldier Field crowd noise creates such problems for opponents,  wouldn't it be safe to conclude that the Bears would be near the top of the league in opponents penalties. Even with that 18 penalty aberration against Green Bay, the Bears rank 20th in the league in opponents penalties per game at 5.5, with very little change at home at 5.8 (18th), and the exact same 5.5 average as last season when Julius Peppers was a Panther. In fact if you take out even half of those penalties against the Packers in that game, their average would drop them down to about 30th in the league.

There's no room for logic and reason on this board! But seriously, nicely done.

[🏀]

YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, ITS JULIUS PEPPERS!


He's a great player, but let's not get carried away.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Great research and post.  I was beginning to look into that until I saw yours.  Well done.


Peppers had 2 tackles and no sacks against the worst playoff team in NFL history, AT HOME

In two games against two very good teams Clay has 7 tackles and 3 sacks.

nuff said

[MU B2002]

Technically, according to football insiders, they were the 2nd worst all time.  I can't remember the other team, but they also won their first game.


In regards to your other pt, don't u think the seahawks might have tried to work the other end of the line to avoid Peppers?  Just like throwing at Cromartie instead of Revis.  Tackles and sacks are not the only way to judge a players impact.

unnatural carnal knowledge the Pack!  (I love CHI GB week).

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Bears still suck!

I am sorry but there is no way someone will be able to convince me peppers had a better year than clay.

look at stats:


   YEAR   TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   STF   STFY   FF   BK   INT   YDS   AVG   LNG   TD   PD
Clay Matthews   2010   60   54   6   13.5   5   14   2   0   1   62   62   62   1   4
Julius Peppers   2010   54   43   11   8   5   12   3   1   2   1   0.5   1   0   9

[🏀]

Bears still suck!

I am sorry but there is no way someone will be able to convince me peppers had a better year than clay.

look at stats:


   YEAR   TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   STF   STFY   FF   BK   INT   YDS   AVG   LNG   TD   PD
Clay Matthews   2010   60   54   6   13.5   5   14   2   0   1   62   62   62   1   4
Julius Peppers   2010   54   43   11   8   5   12   3   1   2   1   0.5   1   0   9

As a Packers fan, you cannot deny Peppers. Clay's putting up better numbers, but Peppers has made a very mediocre defensive line shine. Tommie Harris and Israel Idonije have been making plays because of the attention Peppers draws.

In all though, defensive MVP will come down to stats. That's why Clay will win.

[NavinRJohnson]

The award will and probably should go to a playmaker. If you are going to give it to a guy based on his ability to make the rest of the defense better, that fat bastard in New England should probably win it way before Peppers. 

[wardle2wade]

Bears still suck!

I am sorry but there is no way someone will be able to convince me peppers had a better year than clay.

look at stats:


   YEAR   TOT   SOLO   AST   SACK   STF   STFY   FF   BK   INT   YDS   AVG   LNG   TD   PD
Clay Matthews   2010   60   54   6   13.5   5   14   2   0   1   62   62   62   1   4
Julius Peppers   2010   54   43   11   8   5   12   3   1   2   1   0.5   1   0   9

Missing the stat-line on steroid injections... Matthews has that won by a mile.  He's extremely talented and would love him on the Bears, but is it just me or does Clay's growth seem like the most blatant case of roid blow-up since Sammy Sosa?

IIRC his boy Cushing got nailed with a PED suspension over the off-season last year. Wouldn't surprise me to have the same happen to CM.

[Hards Alumni]

Missing the stat-line on steroid injections... Matthews has that won by a mile.  He's extremely talented and would love him on the Bears, but is it just me or does Clay's growth seem like the most blatant case of roid blow-up since Sammy Sosa?

IIRC his boy Cushing got nailed with a PED suspension over the off-season last year. Wouldn't surprise me to have the same happen to CM.

Guilty by association now huh?  Why didn't Roddy White get corralled for participation in a dog-fighting ring then?

If Clay hasn't tested positive yet, he won't.  Get over it, he is a great player with an excellent motor.