Ain't Y'All Watching Newbill...

[groove]

Not sure I'd classify Buzz's recruiting record as mixed at best - considering we have more Top 100 players in the program currently than at any other time in the program's history.  No coach bats 100% on all of the recruits they bring in..this year's freshman class has a long time to grow up yet.  Next year's team could be quite special with Wilson joining the fold and every other player gaining one year of experience. 

really?

[Golden Avalanche]

How's Newbill's defense? In Buzz's system, guys (especially freshmen) earn playing time on the defensive end of the floor. It's been plenty acknowledged that Blue is earning his playing time on that end, and that his offense is not as strong. If he was at MU, would Newbill be getting as much playing time as Jamail Jones?

Considering how poor of a defensive team MU is this season, and how much Freshmen are playing, I'm not sure I would continue to suck down this particular straw of coachspeak. In time it may bear out but for now its not the case.

Regarding Newbill's defense, he's a starting guard on a team that I believe ranks top 10 nationally in FG% defense (if I recall correctly from the telecast) so he must be doing something right to claim that as a Frosh.

[Lennys Tap]

Hater?

Exactly. But I'll choose the "Cura Personalis" route and not go there.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Exactly. But I'll choose the "Cura Personalis" route and not go there.

Is that greek for hater or something?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Brew...I'd go back and read some of Brad's original posts when Buzz recruited, then signed DJ.  He is anything but a troll.  Everything requires context and when you're limiting your entire evaluation on someone based on a few posts, or even parts of a post, that's dangerous.  That's what happens here all the time and leads to outrageous claims like "the vast majority of your posts about Buzz" are negative, when factually that is so incorrect it's laughable.  But that's what people do here.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Is that greek for hater or something?

"μίσους"

[MerrittsMustache]

Brew...I'd go back and read some of Brad's original posts when Buzz recruited, then signed DJ.  He is anything but a troll.  Everything requires context and when you're limiting your entire evaluation on someone based on a few posts, or even parts of a post, that's dangerous.  That's what happens here all the time and leads to outrageous claims like "the vast majority of your posts about Buzz" are negative, when factually that is so incorrect it's laughable.  But that's what people do here.

Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.

[Marquette84]

There was a great senior class in place when he took over. And one stud junior. But circumstances left him with two empty classes, which is not indicative of a program in very good shape.

Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed).  He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.

Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.

[Lennys Tap]

Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.

+1. Fans morph into haters all the time. Issue arise and they take sides. Because of the "breakup", some longtime Favre fans now hate him. On the other side, there's even a few Packer fans who left the team over it. I have no doubt that Brad was a fan of the program. I also have no doubt that Brad was (and is) a much bigger fan of a) Brad and b) DJ. For now, anyway, being a fan of the program appears to be incompatible with a) and b). Hence the hate for Vander and the rest of the players. For now anyway, he's definitely a troll.

[Lennys Tap]

Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed).  He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.

Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.

Disengenous as usual. Saying that Buzz "inherited" Nick Williams, Taylor, Christopherson or Mbakwe is as fair as saying Crean inherited star players like Crawford at Indiana (actually less fair in Williams and Taylors case). Total nonsense. Misleading bs. Your specialty.

[w0bbie]

Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed).  He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.

Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.

There was only one future NBA pick on the roster: Lazar.  And depending on your timeframe, you can judge the team Buzz inheritited differently.   The team was very good for that coming season but wasn't built for future success.  Overall, though, I'd agree he walked into a decent situation, having talented/experienced upperclassmen he could rely on while he was getting his feet wet as head coach.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.

Thanks for the advice.  I read Brew's points but I disagree with what he and you are saying in terms of the definition used.  He did not start the thread and many of his comments were in response to someone else's question...he gave his opinion.  Now, you and others may not like that opinion, but that's how he feels.  A troll typically goes out and starts his\her own threads or goes off topic within a thread to try and reel in a response.  That's not what he did in most of the thread, but rather ANSWERED questions that people put to him.

Thus, I do not agree that it fits under the definition of a troll.  I got Brew's point just fine, but I do not agree it fits into the definition of what a typical (dare say Traditional) troll does. 

That's the difference in my mind.  Sorry if I missed the point YOU wanted me to get Merrit, but I don't see it the way it was portrayed.  Brad's first response in the thread was level headed, he felt Buzz missed a great Philly pipeline, talked of two kids that canceled on the MU Elite camp as a result and then stated an opinion that Newbill would have a better career.  Then, like clockwork, the attacks started on the guy.  He responded in kind. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1. Fans morph into haters all the time. Issue arise and they take sides. Because of the "breakup", some longtime Favre fans now hate him. On the other side, there's even a few Packer fans who left the team over it. I have no doubt that Brad was a fan of the program. I also have no doubt that Brad was (and is) a much bigger fan of a) Brad and b) DJ. For now, anyway, being a fan of the program appears to be incompatible with a) and b). Hence the hate for Vander and the rest of the players. For now anyway, he's definitely a troll.

Where do you guys get the idea he "hates" Vander?  All he said is he thinks he's overrated and that Newbill will have a better career.  Two opinions.  Now, whether Vander is overrated to me is probably to early to tell, but I can certainly make a case supporting that position if need be.  I believe a few national journalists have greeted his initial play as milquetoast.  Does that mean they hate him, too?   Personally, I think Vander's defense is very good, he's athletic as hell and generally playing pretty well as a Freshman.  I didn't expect much from him this year and even warned a few folks here when they were talking out of their minds craziness during the Summer that he's only a freshman.  That being said, there are certainly some kids rated on par where he was that are off to "better" starts, depending on how you define that.

You guys play way too much psychiatrist on intent or real meaning of people's opinions.  He thinks Newbill will be better than Vander and believes Vander is overrated...that does not mean he HATES Vander.

[brewcity77]

Actually, I've found most trolls like threadjacking. They go in, attack people in a given thread with off-topic and inflammatory remarks, then sit back and see what responses they get. This thread was about Newbill. Dare I say, it was made in a complimentary fashion to a player that showed a great deal of interest in Marquette but landed elsewhere. I don't think there was anything negative in this thread in regards to either DJ or Brad before he came in and started dishing on Vander, who has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, and Wilson, who certainly isn't responsible for the way things went down.

Again, I was one of the people thankful to Brad when he showed up, but the thread was created to give some credit to Newbill, not to discredit Buzz (as Brad did) or this now "invisible" Philly pipeline (despite us still getting interest from Philly players), and certainly not to slam Vander, who committed to Marquette before DJ was even in the picture. If Brad wasn't a troll, he would have said his piece about DJ, maybe even about Buzz, then left it at that. But when he added his snide little "Oh, by the way, DJ's better than VB" comment, he instantly vaulted himself to Internet Troll status. It was uncalled for, off-topic, and frankly one of the most blatant bitch moves he could have made.

If Brad wants to grow up and apologize for bringing VB and Wilson into a discussion they didn't belong in, fine. If he wants to profile future MU prospects (from a distance, don't want to violate NCAA rules) and share that with us, again, I'm happy with that. From a professional standpoint, he does a good job and I'm sure has a lot to offer. But if all he wants to do is dredge up the same topic and use it as a way to attack the program, players, and coaching staff every time he bothers to stop by, then as far as I'm concerned, he can log right off for good and go to hell.

In addition, is it any surprise that he just "happens" to show up and start posting again when someone makes a Newbill thread? I highly doubt it. Another common troll characteristic, they frequently check a message board they want to antagonize and jump into discussions when others start them. My guess is Brad checks this site once to twice a week, looking for moments like this when he can attack. Either he monitors the site for Newbill threads, or he just happened to log on the one time someone actually made one. Which sounds more likely?

[MerrittsMustache]

Thus, I do not agree that it fits under the definition of a troll.  I got Brew's point just fine, but I do not agree it fits into the definition of what a typical (dare say Traditional) troll does.  

When you say that it doesn't fit into the definition of "what a typical troll does" then you're changing the definition that brew posted. He gave the definition of a troll, a definition that fits Brad to a T on this thread, but since his actions don't fit those of a "typical troll," then you discount it. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised since this is pretty typical behavior from you, Chicos.

[Henry Sugar]

tl ; dr

Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation.  He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up.  (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake.  Wilson is an upgrade.  Don't make a habit of it).  If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show.  Doesn't make him a troll.  

Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying.  You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says.  It's distasteful.

Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson.  Hardly a crazy statement.  I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though.  Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.

[cheebs09]

  Brad's first response in the thread was level headed, he felt Buzz missed a great Philly pipeline, talked of two kids that canceled on the MU Elite camp as a result and then stated an opinion that Newbill would have a better career. 

This part I was kind of confused about in what he said, maybe someone that follows it a bit more can help me out, but I didn't think MU had an elite camp this summer.

[MUfan12]

This part I was kind of confused about in what he said, maybe someone that follows it a bit more can help me out, but I didn't think MU had an elite camp this summer.

They did not due to NCAA rules, I believe.

[RJax55]

MU did not have an elite camp this summer.

[RJax55]

Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.

Although I'm starting to lean that way, I wonder if there's enough data yet to reach that conclusion.

Will be interesting to see how Vander's playing come late February/March.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Brew, I'm curious how a discussion on Newbill and his future wouldn't involve Wilson from time to time.  Newbill was cut because of Wilson.  So I'm puzzled when you say Brad brought him in for no reason as if from out in left field.  How are the two NOT married....one player was cut so the other player could be here.  

Just asking

My guess, by the way, is that he probably visits the board occasionally and has been laying low due to the treatment he got.  Then he saw that thread and chimed in.  He's closer to the Newbill situation than 99% of us here because he's heard the other side of the story.

[ChicosBailBonds]

When you say that it doesn't fit into the definition of "what a typical troll does" then you're changing the definition that brew posted. He gave the definition of a troll, a definition that fits Brad to a T on this thread, but since his actions don't fit those of a "typical troll," then you discount it. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised since this is pretty typical behavior from you, Chicos.

So that I understand, a troll is defined then based on what one does in a few posts or in a thread, not overall actions?

[Henry Sugar]

Although I'm starting to lean that way, I wonder if there's enough data yet to reach that conclusion.

Yeah, I know.  I was just saying that to get a response.

/troll

[Jay Bee]

There has been some confusion as to why there was no MU Elite Camp this year... now it all makes sense.

The bountiful Philly pipeline that was filled up with treasures bailed out on us.  Just didn't have enough interested talent.

[Golden Avalanche]

Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation.  He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up.  (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake.  Wilson is an upgrade.  Don't make a habit of it).  If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show.  Doesn't make him a troll.  

Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying.  You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says.  It's distasteful.

Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson.  Hardly a crazy statement.  I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though.  Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.

+1.

I agree with every single word of this.