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Next up: A long offseason

Marquette
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Marquette
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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2025
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Schedule for 2024-25
New Mexico
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mu-rara

Quote from: 2002MUalum on October 21, 2010, 04:13:58 PM
I'm not worried.

So far, the coach and the staff have a good track record.

In fact, Buzz usually comes up with some guy we have never even heard of that turns out to be great.


Hey everyone.  Looks like 2002 is buying into Buzz,  although he did leave a qualifier.   Chicos may be the holdout.

MarkCharles

Quote from: damuts222 on October 21, 2010, 04:23:07 PM
Your joking right, Jimmy F'in Butler, Crowder, Fulce has been a quality guy. Basically all of the JUCO players...I hate to say this but when Crean left Buzz had to fill the roster out and attempt to even it out class wise and he did an impressive job in doing so.

Did he swing and miss a couple times, yes, but the quality has outweighed the negativity when it comes to Buzz' recruiting thus far.
I couldn't agree more with this. Buzz is a great recruiter and I love having him here.

But all those players you listed are either small forwards, or small forwards being forced to play the 4/5 because we don't have enough quality bigs.

I guess I might have misunderstood 2002's post (sorry if I did). I assumed he was talking about big men. If he is talking about players in general, then ok he is right, but I never questioned Buzz's ability to bring in quality wing players. His ability to do so is what has me so excited, but also worried we might not get as much as we can out of it.

MarkCharles

bma

If we weren't going after DeWitt, then fine, but don't put that on me because pretty much everyone on here thought we were. There were numerous mentions of us and him in the last weeks/months.

Golden Avalanche

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:35:44 PM
I couldn't agree more with this. Buzz is a great recruiter and I love having him here.

But all those players you listed are either small forwards, or small forwards being forced to play the 4/5 because we don't have enough quality bigs.

I guess I might have misunderstood 2002's post (sorry if I did). I assumed he was talking about big men. If he is talking about players in general, then ok he is right, but I never questioned Buzz's ability to bring in quality wing players. His ability to do so is what has me so excited, but also worried we might not get as much as we can out of it.


Programs build reputations as they attain success. Simple matter of the fact is that Marquette is a guard school and a guard school alone.

Our limitation relative to our talent holding us accountable to results will remain the same as it has the last seven seasons.

MarkCharles

Quote from: Ners on October 21, 2010, 03:54:10 PM
Mark  - I like most of your posts, viewpoints and thoughts...but think you are going off that "big man at Marquette" ledge a like many.  I do believe that there are so FEW dominant, highly skilled big men, that landing one isn't essential - so long as you have a solid big man for defensive purposes if needed (which Otule can provide.)  In my opinion, a guy that is 6'7" and very athletic, who can pass, dribble and shoot..can create a ton of match up problems for teams with more "size" (and has more value than a 1-dimensional kid who is 6'10")  So long as our PG and SG aren't midgets..we can compete, and compete well..NOW THAT WE FINALLY  HAVE DEPTH THAT GOES ABOUT 10 DEEP.  

I'm convinced that if we had just 2 more solid tweener/switchables like a Jamil Wilson/Jamail Jones last year...we definitely would have beat:  FSU, WVU, NOVA, NC State, Georgetown in Big East tourney, and Washington.  We were THAT close to being a Sweet 16 team last year.  Zoubek at Duke wasn't a dominant big..nor was the Howard kid from Butler..WVU didn't have a traditonal "big," they were a team made up of 6'6"-6'8", rangy, athletic kids.

All very good points. Except that I don't want a dominant big man, just a good one. I'd love a guy like Zoubek. I hope Otule is that man, but I haven't seen it yet.

I am already seeing how I went a little too far off the deepend with this, but I have been concerned about this for many years and haven't been given any reason not to be by the big guys brought in in the last few years. I hope they are the answer, but the jury is still very much out.

That being said, I can't think of anyone that could do a better job than Buzz. I think he will get us where we want to go (yes, even in regards to bigs), but I am impatient.

Peace to all.

jmayer1

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:53:11 PM
All very good points. Except that I don't want a dominant big man, just a good one. I'd love a guy like Zoubek. I hope Otule is that man, but I haven't seen it yet.

If Otule stays healthy and plays 15 minutes a game (a very big if), I see no reason he should not be at least, if not more, productive than Zoubek was last year.

I know this is a very small sample size for CO last year but:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=chris-otule&p1=brian-zoubek

NersEllenson

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:53:11 PM
All very good points. Except that I don't want a dominant big man, just a good one. I'd love a guy like Zoubek. I hope Otule is that man, but I haven't seen it yet.

I am already seeing how I went a little too far off the deepend with this, but I have been concerned about this for many years and haven't been given any reason not to be by the big guys brought in in the last few years. I hope they are the answer, but the jury is still very much out.

That being said, I can't think of anyone that could do a better job than Buzz. I think he will get us where we want to go (yes, even in regards to bigs), but I am impatient.

Peace to all.

I know you are a big fan of the program...so knew the spirit of your post wasn't really malicious or snide..but a concern that many MU fans have due to the complexion of our roster ever since Merritt and RJax have been gone.  RJax was very valuable to the Final Four team..but the reality is that there is NO way we go to the Final Four that year without DWade.  A big man is by no means the end all be all for a team to get to the Final Four..yet I think a lot of people feel that way.  Lastly, I have NO doubt that Otule can be the same type of player Zoubekc was for Duke by next year..if not even this year.  He will be used as needed - ifgetting dominated on the glass, or by a big like Fab Melo at Cuse...and that probaly is the role most bigs will play in college basketball these days..unless of course they are an elite, DeMarcus Cousins type of talent.
"I'm not sure Cadougan would fix the problems on this team. I'm not even convinced he would be better for this team than DeWil is."

BrewCity77, December 8, 2013

tower912

Quote from: Ners on October 21, 2010, 03:54:10 PM
Mark  - I like most of your posts, viewpoints and thoughts...but think you are going off that "big man at Marquette" ledge a like many.  I do believe that there are so FEW dominant, highly skilled big men, that landing one isn't essential - so long as you have a solid big man for defensive purposes if needed (which Otule can provide.)  In my opinion, a guy that is 6'7" and very athletic, who can pass, dribble and shoot..can create a ton of match up problems for teams with more "size" (and has more value than a 1-dimensional kid who is 6'10")  So long as our PG and SG aren't midgets..we can compete, and compete well..NOW THAT WE FINALLY  HAVE DEPTH THAT GOES ABOUT 10 DEEP.  

I'm convinced that if we had just 2 more solid tweener/switchables like a Jamil Wilson/Jamail Jones last year...we definitely would have beat:  FSU, WVU, NOVA, NC State, Georgetown in Big East tourney, and Washington.  We were THAT close to being a Sweet 16 team last year.  Zoubek at Duke wasn't a dominant big..nor was the Howard kid from Butler..WVU didn't have a traditonal "big," they were a team made up of 6'6"-6'8", rangy, athletic kids.

Heck, if we have a healthy Otule, or a productive EWill, we win most of those games.    Jeronne sticking around and making normal progress probably helps us beat Nova, WVU, and Washington.   We were one functioning 6'6"+ away.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MarkCharles

Quote from: jmayer1 on October 21, 2010, 05:06:35 PM
If Otule stays healthy and plays 15 minutes a game (a very big if), I see no reason he should not be at least, if not more, productive than Zoubek was last year.

I know this is a very small sample size for CO last year but:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=chris-otule&p1=brian-zoubek

I don't see how Otule comes close to being the presence Zoubek was until maybe his senior year. Zoubek was tenacious rebounding/going for loose balls, and he had a mean streak that made people think when they went in to the lane. And once Zoubek got the ball in his hands, he'd keep it high and guard it with his elbows. No reason Otule can't do that, I just haven't seen it yet.

BCHoopster

Seriously, MU has 2 new players next year lose 3 so we are 1 player short, I never believed that you can keep 13 players happy.
MU has a solid 11 potential starters the following year and 9 after that.  It will be much easier to recruit next year, Buzz
went for a home run type player this year, maybe still will get 1 of them, if not, so what.  The talent the next two and even the
next four years will be fine and entertaining to watch.  If MU can surprise a little bit this year, recruiting battles can turn around.  It is
hard to recruit when there is only 1 or 2 kids per year going to a high Division 1 school from Wisconsin.  If MU gets 1 more kid, the year
will be good on recruiting.  It may have to happen in spring.  Most of the other schools are filling there rosters, so maybe MU gets a
transfer in the spring like Wilson.  Patience everybody!

MarkCharles

I think the main reason I am so concerned is because, while I see question marks at the 4 and 5 (if you don't see them you aren't looking), I see nothing but good at 1/2/3. I don't know if there are more than 5 or 6 programs where I'd prefer their rosters at 1, 2 and 3 over ours. And the rosters I would prefer come with names like Duke, Kentucky, UNC, Florida. I love that.

I simply have nothing else to focus my rampant pessimism on in regards to MU, its all golden. (just ask my friends, I can be quite the negative thinker. Don't get me started on the Packers this year)

thanooj

I want big men too.  All I want is Robert Jackson.  
But we don't "need" a center.  We need post presence.  
And this is the Mbakwe Maymon hole in the program we are
Still recovering from.  Those guys were not centers, but had
They played we would have gotten that extra defensive rebound
Against notre dame and in the ncaa.
We don't need to put a center in the nba to recruit bigs to MU.
We need to continue to win and put MU athletes in the nba.
Otule will not be zoubek.  But his senior year he will be good.
And MU will be better with him and Gardner as a Jr.
Go Marquette.  I am excited for this year and I feel your pain about
losing guys.  But let's just keep stocking the shelves and we will be
pleased as this young group gets older.
Original member of the "Dean's List"

BCHoopster

Mark, maybe a front line next year of Wilson, Crowder and Otule will make you
fell better.  Thank on the positive side.

avid1010

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:38:06 PM
bma

If we weren't going after DeWitt, then fine, but don't put that on me because pretty much everyone on here thought we were. There were numerous mentions of us and him in the last weeks/months.

lame...if everyone on this board jumped....

jmayer1

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 05:40:36 PM
I don't see how Otule comes close to being the presence Zoubek was until maybe his senior year. Zoubek was tenacious rebounding/going for loose balls, and he had a mean streak that made people think when they went in to the lane. And once Zoubek got the ball in his hands, he'd keep it high and guard it with his elbows. No reason Otule can't do that, I just haven't seen it yet.
Disagree.  Zoubek was not a great, or even very good player, his senior year or any other year at Duke.  If he was, he would have played more than the 19 minutes a game he averaged last year.  Zoubek was not any better of a player than Barro was when he was here. If that is what you want for an MU big man, I see no reason Otule can't fill that role this year, provided he stays healthy.

Ron Paul

I will say what everyone else should be saying, we have Jamil Wilson and Juan Anderson.  By my count that makes 2 very legitimate players in the fold for next year.  I like what Buzz is doing, we could settle for some lower level players, but this time around we don't need to fill roster spots.  If Rodney Hood, Faust or Shaw join those two who will be concerned?

In Buzz We Trust!

GGGG

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:38:06 PM
bma

If we weren't going after DeWitt, then fine, but don't put that on me because pretty much everyone on here thought we were. There were numerous mentions of us and him in the last weeks/months.


YOU brought it up at the start of the thread!

And the only time it was brought up here was because of speculation.  There is no word that he ever visited campus, or that we there was any serious consideration by either party.

HoopsMalone

Size makes a big difference and it is a valid concern.  There is just so little size out there that it is hard to get mad at Buzz for not landing much size.  

We are not going to go from small guards like DJ, Acker, and Cubillan, and playing 7 players to a ten man rotation of athletic studs with NBA-potential bigs in one big step.  We are taking baby steps out of the Crean-era.  We have many big, athletic wings and depth this year.  Buzz is only in year three.  We should really wait until year five to judge exactly what Buzz wants to put onto the floor, and it may not be many bigs anyway.


ESPN had us associated with DeWitt:  http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/102085/keith-dewitt

We are still on his "also considered" but is no longer on the MU ESPN recruiting page.  That is where it came from.  

MarkCharles

Quote from: jmayer1 on October 21, 2010, 06:27:40 PM
Disagree.  Zoubek was not a great, or even very good player, his senior year or any other year at Duke.  If he was, he would have played more than the 19 minutes a game he averaged last year.  Zoubek was not any better of a player than Barro was when he was here. If that is what you want for an MU big man, I see no reason Otule can't fill that role this year, provided he stays healthy.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Zoubek, but watching the tourney, he was a huge factor in them being national champions. And he was way better than Barro.

MU_Iceman

I, like many others, understand and appreciate your frustration...I think we all share in that frustration to an extent.  We look at the recruiting landscape through our MU glasses and don't understand how a "big" recruit could pass up the opportunity for immediate PT on a team with a very good back-court...

Sure, Buzz appears to have "swung and missed" on the top tier big men that were on the market this year...but if you look closely at any recruiting classes top 100 players it's predominantly guards and wings...the supply of true interior players is significantly smaller and, therefore, the competition for these recruits is very high...

It will likely take Buzz' staff developing the under-valued big men (ie. Gardner, O'Tule) or the occassional JUCO big man into potential NBA talents before we start closing on the top tier guys...

But don't lose hope...as another poster mentioned, while we may not have that 4-star big man in our lineup, Buzz has developed a roster of lengthy players who are, across the board, big enough to compete with just about any team in the NCAA.

bilsu

Quote from: GOMUWFB on October 21, 2010, 06:39:04 PM
I will say what everyone else should be saying, we have Jamil Wilson and Juan Anderson.  By my count that makes 2 very legitimate players in the fold for next year.  I like what Buzz is doing, we could settle for some lower level players, but this time around we don't need to fill roster spots.  If Rodney Hood, Faust or Shaw join those two who will be concerned?

In Buzz We Trust!
First of all DeWitt was rated less than 90. McDonald had a higher ranking and 4 years to develope. DeWitt would only have two years and I suspect he never would have got off the end of the bench. We also have Singleton to add to next year's team. We are okay as long as we do not lose anyone, but the seniors. It is important that Buzz has another NCAA team this year. As long as he keeps us in the NCAA he will be considered a good coach and that will keep the recruiting doors open.

bma725

Quote from: HoopsMalone on October 21, 2010, 06:58:15 PM
ESPN had us associated with DeWitt:  http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/102085/keith-dewitt

We are still on his "also considered" but is no longer on the MU ESPN recruiting page.  That is where it came from.  

That's because ESPN hasn't updated that section since his original commitment to Missouri over a year ago.  In fact if you look at the list of also considered, not a single one of those schools was part of his recruitment this time around.  That's all out of date info.

bma725

Quote from: MarkCharles on October 21, 2010, 04:38:06 PM
bma

If we weren't going after DeWitt, then fine, but don't put that on me because pretty much everyone on here thought we were. There were numerous mentions of us and him in the last weeks/months.

The numerous mentions have all been on this board, based off of no actual facts.  Someone saw an ESPN profile months ago that still had us on his "also considered" section and concluded that we were still going after him, despite the fact that the section had been put together the year before when he committed to Missouri.  It was taken as gospel without anyone actually looking to see if MU or any of the other schools mentioned were actually involved with him anymore.  

Look at the article about his commitment, neither MU nor any of the schools ESPN listed as being a part of his recruiting were mentioned, and he had a whole new list of schools he was considering before committing to USM.

Spaniel with a Short Tail

Otule can fill that role for the next several years if he can do something about those hands.  I don't know if there's any sort of drill that would help that way.  One thing I can say after seeing him last weekend is that he's in great physical shape.

MarkCharles

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 21, 2010, 06:57:12 PM

YOU brought it up at the start of the thread! of course I did, I never said I didn't mention him

And the only time it was brought up here was because of speculation.  There is no word that he ever visited campus, or that we there was any serious consideration by either party.
Quotelame...if everyone on this board jumped....


We offered DeWitt coming out of high school, so it would make sense that we were after him now.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/tcu/basketball/recruiting/player-Keith-Dewitt-83081

Also, we were and still are listed on his considered schools on ESPN, as HoopsMalone just showed. Considering how little info there is regarding JUCO recruiting, those are legitimate indications that there was interest. I'm not claiming we were involved this recruiting period, all I'm saying is that BMA calling me out for thinking we were involved is inappropriate.

Tons of people on this board mentioned we were involved with him throughout this recruiting season, some of whom I'm sure are now calling me out for doing so. So I don't really get why people are looking back with 20/20 hindsight and saying my thoughts were baseless, or why BMA didn't call them out before he committed elsewhere.
I took exception to the way he made it sound like I was pulling a connection between MU and DeWitt out of thin air.

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