I am concerned

[MarkCharles]

The numerous mentions have all been on this board, based off of no actual facts.  

How much info in recruiting is based completely off fact? A huge amount of recruiting info, and info on message boards, is based off of speculation.

[GGGG]

How much info in recruiting is based completely off fact? A huge amount of recruiting info, and info on message boards, is based off of speculation.

Completely off fact?  Not much.  However there were absolutely no facts that we were recruiting him at all this go around.  No buzz...no visits...nothing. 

[Pakuni]

Thanks to BMA for debunking the DeWitt interest. I read about our alleged recruitment of him a few days ago, but hadn't heard a peep about us being involved with him for a couple years. 

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/102085/keith-dewitt

The present ESPN profile for him lists DeWitt as drawing interest from MU.
They could, of course, be wrong.

[texaswarrior74]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Zoubek, but watching the tourney, he was a huge factor in them being national champions. And he was way better than Barro.

Heard K on the Herd this morning.....he talked about Zoubek finally "getting it" and his game came together mid season. In his opinion that made the difference in the FF run. prior to that never thought that Zoubek did much but take up space.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Hey everyone.  Looks like 2002 is buying into Buzz,  although he did leave a qualifier.   Chicos may be the holdout.

Hey, I never said I didn't like the guy, and I never said I didn't think he was good at his job... I've just indicated that after 2.5 years, I'm not ready to be in love with the guy. Need to see more.

With this said, my default stance for all coaches is that the guy making close to 1million dollars to coach (used to be TC, now it's BW) knows more about hoops than I do... especially recruiting.

Therefore, I don't think I can sit here and pretend to be "concerned" because the reality is that the coaching staff knows what they are doing, and they have had a recent track record of doing well with what some people would consider "secondary recruits".

(Butler, Fulce, DJO, Buycks,)

[ATWizJr]

Hysteria of the first magnitude.  Chill.

[NersEllenson]

The continued panic by MU fans over a "big man" is getting ridiculous.  Otule and Gardner will be more than sufficient over the next 3 years.  MU will not miss the Final Four as a result of Otule and Gardner being our big men...the only reason we'll miss is if Blue, Jones, Wilson and Smith aren't nearly as good as advertised or rated coming into MU.  Wings and Guards determine the success of an NCAA program...so long as they are not completely and totally inept at the center position.  Zoubeck was far from a dominant big man..WVU didn't have one, and Butler's big man Matt Howard was far from dominant.  Relax all MU fans and give this thing another 1 or 2 years before freaking the f out.

[MarkCharles]

Completely off fact?  Not much.  However there were absolutely no facts that we were recruiting him at all this go around.  No buzz...no visits...nothing. 

Well where were to shoot down this clearly ridiculous connection when others were talking about DeWitt recently? Pretty easy to talk like this now...

[MarkCharles]

The continued panic by MU fans over a "big man" is getting ridiculous.  Otule and Gardner will be more than sufficient over the next 3 years.  MU will not miss the Final Four as a result of Otule and Gardner being our big men...the only reason we'll miss is if Blue, Jones, Wilson and Smith aren't nearly as good as advertised or rated coming into MU.  Wings and Guards determine the success of an NCAA program...so long as they are not completely and totally inept at the center position.  Zoubeck was far from a dominant big man..WVU didn't have one, and Butler's big man Matt Howard was far from dominant.  Relax all MU fans and give this thing another 1 or 2 years before freaking the f out.

Apparently you are satisfied with our bigs. Forgive me for not being satisfied with having 2 guys on the roster above 6'7 who will maybe be "sufficient" at some point down the road, but are not right now. I'm tired of having to watch MU teams win in spite of their bigs. And don't get confused into thinking I judging Buzz too quickly. This is a problem that isn't defined by any coach, its a problem of the program for a decade.

[thanooj]

Apparently you are satisfied with our bigs. Forgive me for not being satisfied with having 2 guys on the roster above 6'7 who will maybe be "sufficient" at some point down the road, but are not right now. I'm tired of having to watch MU teams win in spite of their bigs. And don't get confused into thinking I judging Buzz too quickly. This is a problem that isn't defined by any coach, its a problem of the program for a decade.

But if we had landed McDonald or dewitt, or even shaw they wouldn't help us for another few years down the road anyway.  While a lot of us think shaw would play rt. away, the rest if those guys would.be in no better position for playing time than Gardner is this year.  I am not "satisfied" with our bigs, but next year's freshmen can't help this year's squad.  And next year CO and DG will be a year older and (god willing) ready to make much bigger contributions.  This team might win "in spite" of their center position, and we all might be craving more.post presence, but keep.recruiting ousmane barros and their Jr. And Sr. Years will be great because the cupboard is full of ousmane barros behind.them.

[HoopsMalone]

Getting big men is a huge concernt and should not be dismissed.  Guards are the most important thing, but if MU wants to take the next step from a 10-12 conference win and first or second round loss, we are going to need to develop big men.  We might make one sweet 16 because our guards/wings are that good.  But more often than not we will lose early in the tournament. 

I am sick of losing early in the tournament.  Buzz has gotten many bigs (Liam, Roseboro, Mbao, Otule, Gardner, that guy with the rape charge) but they have not worked out.  It is very essential to get one though. 

Being able to compete and being a Final Four contender is a huge difference.  I would like to become a Final Four contender.

[willie warrior]

Getting big men is a huge concernt and should not be dismissed.  Guards are the most important thing, but if MU wants to take the next step from a 10-12 conference win and first or second round loss, we are going to need to develop big men.  We might make one sweet 16 because our guards/wings are that good.  But more often than not we will lose early in the tournament. 

I am sick of losing early in the tournament.  Buzz has gotten many bigs (Liam, Roseboro, Mbao, Otule, Gardner, that guy with the rape charge) but they have not worked out.  It is very essential to get one though. 

Being able to compete and being a Final Four contender is a huge difference.  I would like to become a Final Four contender.

[GGGG]

Well where were to shoot down this clearly ridiculous connection when others were talking about DeWitt recently? Pretty easy to talk like this now...

If I tried to debunk every ridiculous recruiting rumor on MUScoop, I wouldn't have time for anything else.

[MerrittsMustache]

Heard K on the Herd this morning.....he talked about Zoubek finally "getting it" and his game came together mid season. In his opinion that made the difference in the FF run. prior to that never thought that Zoubek did much but take up space.

If Zoubek played for MU, he would have seen about 6-8 minutes/game last season...because he would have constantly been in foul trouble. Don't underestimate the impact that playing at a refs-best-friend school like Duke has on a big, slow-moving hack like Zoubek.

As for MU's big man situation...I apologize if this has been brought up in the thread previously (I didn't read all of it) but I think it comes down to the whether Buzz would rather have a 6'5"-6'8" swingman who can come in and contribute for 4 years or bring in a 6'10"-7'0" project who may or may not pan out. Based on what I hear, a lot of MU fans and posters would rather have a 7-footer burried on the bench "maturing" than have a swingman seeing 8-10 mpg. Last offseason, posters were all over Buzz for not going after Ben Mills. It didn't matter that he clearly wasn't a Big East caliber player - he's big!

The fact of the matter is that Buzz has brought in some big "projects" and, for whatever reason, they have yet to work out. This is not unusual for programs. Like people have said numerous times before, there just aren't that many quality big men out there.

Who knows? Otule could go out and average 12-8 this season and 15-10 next year. He also could be a Chris Grimm-type player who doesn't score much but hold his own on D. That's not a bad thing, especially with the way this team is assembled.  

I equate it to the dynamics of a baseball team. Typically teams like to get power from the corner positions (1B, 3B, RF, LF) but if you have a SS who hits with a lot of power, you can afford to have a singles-hitter in RF. The power is still there even if it comes from a different source. MU might not have a traditional center manning the paint, but if Fulce, Crowder and EWill can defend and Butler and the guards score points and do their part on the boards, you're still getting the same numbers. It's just not coming in a "traditional" way.

[Benny B]

If I tried to debunk every ridiculous recruiting rumor on MUScoop, I wouldn't have time for anything else.

Even if you had the time, it still couldn't be done.  That's what makes this board fun -- reality schmeality, facts shmacks... we all believe what we want to believe.

Speaking of which, Election Day is only 11 days away!

[Henry Sugar]

I think Mark Charles is unfairly taking a hit here.  I've had this exact back and forth with Tim several times.  Granted, it kind of boils down to the wonderful message board question of "why can't we get a big man?".

However, maybe there is a ceiling for Marquette.  Buzz has been in on a lot of highly rated recruits for a long time and hasn't closed the deal (and he's a closer).  Buzz has been after big men but they aren't signing.

I'm not saying I agree with the perspective, but I definitely think it's a valid concern until proven otherwise.

[NersEllenson]

Getting big men is a huge concernt and should not be dismissed.  Guards are the most important thing, but if MU wants to take the next step from a 10-12 conference win and first or second round loss, we are going to need to develop big men.  We might make one sweet 16 because our guards/wings are that good.  But more often than not we will lose early in the tournament. 

I am sick of losing early in the tournament.  Buzz has gotten many bigs (Liam, Roseboro, Mbao, Otule, Gardner, that guy with the rape charge) but they have not worked out.  It is very essential to get one though. 

Being able to compete and being a Final Four contender is a huge difference.  I would like to become a Final Four contender.

I'm not dismissing the value of a big..but many Marquette fans have way too much of an obsession with getting a "big."  The necessity of a big is really kind of an illusion - Look at last year's Final Four..NO team had a really good big..they were bit players.  It is NOT a requirement to have bigs to make the Final Four..you just can't be a team of 5 good guard/wing players and have NO depth beyond that, nor ANY serviceable big on the roster.  Gardner and Otule will be more than serviceable over the next 3 years.  Marquette hasn't advanced these past 5 seasons due to the lack of any real depth on its roster, injuries ot McNeal, James, and then a terrible matchup with Stanford..not to mention a few buzzer beater shots in the tourney that probably prevented us from being in the Sweet 16 - Washington and Stanford...and this was with having a team comprised of basically 6 High-Major players, and then a significant drop off for roster spots 7-12.  I'll be SHOCKED if the 2011-2012 MU team does NOT make the Elite 8/Final Four..assuming DJO doesn't go pro.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'll be SHOCKED if the 2011-2012 MU team does NOT make the Elite 8/Final Four..assuming DJO doesn't go pro.

Man, you are a glass 1/2 full kind of guy.

I hope you are right.

[kmwtrucks]

On thing that I was not sure if it was mentioned, but They said the 2012 class has almost double the number of of Bigs as the 2011 class which is kind of weak in that area.  No need to take a Big just to take one, Get one that can play.  3 center's on a roster is good. So if we get one in 2012 that would be 3.  

[BCHoopster]

Even in Al's years, he did not get a big man until Jim Chones came on board, then Jerome
Whitehead.  It is easier to recruit in your own backyard.  So in saying that,  Wisconsin needs
to grow some more tall timber,  Phillip Nolan may be it, maybe others.

[lab_warrior]

Yeah, this might be the second or third time I've posted this on the board.  CALM DOWN and get a grip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJsTbKEHH9g

[dsfire]

I find it funny to see Zoubek touted as a serviceable but not dominating big man, considering he was the #25-rated recruit in the 2006 RSCI and played less than 20 mpg as a senior.  If we got a 7-footer rated that highly and he put up Zoubek's stats, he'd be considered an enormous disappointment.

Interesting if not completely fair comparison: http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=brian-zoubek&p1=ousmane-barro

[Golden Avalanche]

I'm not dismissing the value of a big..but many Marquette fans have way too much of an obsession with getting a "big."  The necessity of a big is really kind of an illusion - Look at last year's Final Four..NO team had a really good big..they were bit players.  It is NOT a requirement to have bigs to make the Final Four..you just can't be a team of 5 good guard/wing players and have NO depth beyond that, nor ANY serviceable big on the roster.  Gardner and Otule will be more than serviceable over the next 3 years.  Marquette hasn't advanced these past 5 seasons due to the lack of any real depth on its roster, injuries ot McNeal, James, and then a terrible matchup with Stanford..not to mention a few buzzer beater shots in the tourney that probably prevented us from being in the Sweet 16 - Washington and Stanford...and this was with having a team comprised of basically 6 High-Major players, and then a significant drop off for roster spots 7-12.  I'll be SHOCKED if the 2011-2012 MU team does NOT make the Elite 8/Final Four..assuming DJO doesn't go pro.

When we've had the same problem for the better part of a decade I don't think it can be called an illusion. We've rarely had any "presence" in the middle -- whether it be a player like Hibbert or a player like Maxiell. That causes a lot of stress on the other four positions and if they're off their game for just a half (witness Florida State, NC State, Washington, et al.) Marquette will most likely lose the game.

I, and I'm sure many others, admire your confidence in Otule and Gardner but we've been down this road before where all of our guys could be "serviceable" and they turn out (with the rare exceptions of MJax and Burke) not to be. You can't blame people who have seen this script before, and seen it turn out disastrously, getting antsy that it continues unabated into a new regime.

[Golden Avalanche]

Even in Al's years, he did not get a big man until Jim Chones came on board, then Jerome
Whitehead.  It is easier to recruit in your own backyard.  So in saying that,  Wisconsin needs
to grow some more tall timber,  Phillip Nolan may be it, maybe others.

Um, the state has grown its fair share of timber over the last half decade -- and they've all landed on the Badgers' roster. Its there, we just don't get it.

[NersEllenson]

When we've had the same problem for the better part of a decade I don't think it can be called an illusion. We've rarely had any "presence" in the middle -- whether it be a player like Hibbert or a player like Maxiell. That causes a lot of stress on the other four positions and if they're off their game for just a half (witness Florida State, NC State, Washington, et al.) Marquette will most likely lose the game.

I, and I'm sure many others, admire your confidence in Otule and Gardner but we've been down this road before where all of our guys could be "serviceable" and they turn out (with the rare exceptions of MJax and Burke) not to be. You can't blame people who have seen this script before, and seen it turn out disastrously, getting antsy that it continues unabated into a new regime.

I wouldn't all Burke a big, nor serviceable...Jamil Wilson is taller...and weighs only about 15 pounds less than Burke.  Barro was a much better player than Burke.  C Otule and Gardner..will easily provide what Burke did - I'd be highly, highly disappointed if they didn't.  They may not get the minutes Burke did..due to there being much better roster options now, than when Burke was on board at MU. 

Regarding Hibbert and Maxiel - I'm pretty sure we beat both of those guys teams/went .500 against them.  I don't see us losing the FSU or NC State, nor WAH games due to a lack of a big...it was a lack of depth.  We flat out ran out of gas against FSU..and you could make that same case against Washington.

Lastly, this is just Year 3 of the new regime...let's see how this year goes and next year....now that we have a roster largely the way Buzz wants it..and lets see the results before continuing to beat this dead horse drum of "we need a big, we need a big..I'm getting ready to jump off a bridge, because MU can't land a big!"  Not saying you are the culprit..but that we as a fan base are way, way too obsessed with this..laregly due to some really, really bad luck in the NCA tourney the last 5 years, injuries, and mostly due to MU only going to the tourney with a roster of about 6 legit High-Major players each of these last 5 years...and then there being MAJOR drop off