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Author Topic: 2010 Recruit Steadman Short (6'9" PF) Visited Friday (May 7) And Was Offered!!  (Read 30711 times)

goodgreatgrand

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His loss not Mu's, Buzz can replace him.

This is the only problem left. The best programs recruit kids that are necessary for the program to succeed (and are a good fit). Recruits shouldnt be interchangeable such that if we lose a player, we can just go out on the road late in the signing period and find someone else. Now, if youre talking about losing out on Selby and 'settle' for Knight, then that's another story. But if you are recruiting major projects and replacing those players with other major projects, then you're treading water. I would have thought that making the ncaa tourney regularly would have bumped us up a bit. Not yet. Once those 'major projects' are replaced by 'projects,' things will look brighter.   

Canadian Dimes

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This is the only problem left. The best programs recruit kids that are necessary for the program to succeed (and are a good fit). Recruits shouldnt be interchangeable such that if we lose a player, we can just go out on the road late in the signing period and find someone else. Now, if youre talking about losing out on Selby and 'settle' for Knight, then that's another story. But if you are recruiting major projects and replacing those players with other major projects, then you're treading water. I would have thought that making the ncaa tourney regularly would have bumped us up a bit. Not yet. Once those 'major projects' are replaced by 'projects,' things will look brighter.   


wow we are talking about the agreed upon by all as the 13th player on the roster.  My point is if he chooses to leave no problem.  Willie had used him as an indicator of why people should be wary of trusting buzz.  More than a stretch IMO

jmayer1

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Butler (unless you want to call that Crean's

Just wanted to clarify that Butler was definitely a Buzz recruit. Jimmy committed on April 17, 2008. MU's previous coach left on April 1, 2008.

GOO

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Smith is Coming to Marquette for sure! He will be here in July!

Expect Mbao to Leave.

Is this based upon inside info, or just your opinion?

NCMUFan

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No, I would not put High Point at the same level. And comparing what a frosh averaged at high point to what a frosh may not have averaged at MU is ridiculous.

And the mantra of In Buzz I trust is getting old. Yes, he has made some good selections from the Juco ranks: DJO, Butler (unless you want to call that Crean's), and perhaps Bucyks, along with Crowder, but Buzz has had some misses on some of his drafts: Roseboro, maybe Williams, Monterale Clark; Maymon; etc., so if you waqnt to subscribe to the "in Buzz I trust" theory, that is your choice--sort of the "In Barack I trust" crowd. Just saying, we need to scrutinize these things with some degree of "what is going on?"
I am sorry, but if you compare Buzz to Crean in regards to hitting home runs versus striking out on late inning recruits, Buzz is hands down the batting champion compared to Crean. And why throw politics in this? Barack is just as trustable as Bush or Clinton.  God help this country.

DaCoach

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No, I would not put High Point at the same level. And comparing what a frosh averaged at high point to what a frosh may not have averaged at MU is ridiculous.

And the mantra of In Buzz I trust is getting old. Yes, he has made some good selections from the Juco ranks: DJO, Butler (unless you want to call that Crean's), and perhaps Bucyks, along with Crowder, but Buzz has had some misses on some of his drafts: Roseboro, maybe Williams, Monterale Clark; Maymon; etc., so if you waqnt to subscribe to the "in Buzz I trust" theory, that is your choice--sort of the "In Barack I trust" crowd. Just saying, we need to scrutinize these things with some degree of "what is going on?"

Perhaps you have sufficient detailed information that qualifies you to scrutinize the program. However, most of us have mere observations and, at best, semi informed opinions. As you may have noticed, we are not Duke, or Kansas or North Carolina. We don't have the luxury of taking phone calls from 5 star players dying to enroll. I'd guess that most small private universities located in tundra cities such as Milwaukee would be ecstatic to have our success.

These are kids coming to us who are still babies in the world. To be shocked that one or two of them fell through the cracks seems naive. You may see a cult of supporters, but I prefer to think of us as adults who have assigned a job to their coach and are very pleased so far with his performance. Many of us see the glass as well above half full. If there are problems that arise in the future, most of us are willing to investigate and reevaluate. Until then, I do trust Buzz.
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GOO

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Perhaps you have sufficient detailed information that qualifies you to scrutinize the program. However, most of us have mere observations and, at best, semi informed opinions. As you may have noticed, we are not Duke, or Kansas or North Carolina. We don't have the luxury of taking phone calls from 5 star players dying to enroll. I'd guess that most small private universities located in tundra cities such as Milwaukee would be ecstatic to have our success.

These are kids coming to us who are still babies in the world. To be shocked that one or two of them fell through the cracks seems naive. You may see a cult of supporters, but I prefer to think of us as adults who have assigned a job to their coach and are very pleased so far with his performance. Many of us see the glass as well above half full. If there are problems that arise in the future, most of us are willing to investigate and reevaluate. Until then, I do trust Buzz.

Even the coaches that get the 5 star recruits calling and asking to come (UNC/Duke), miss on plenty of recruits and miss judge talent and desire, etc.  Buzz is doing just fine and much better than just fine in my opinion.

NotAnAlum

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If you want to look on the bright side; for any of us that were concerned that Buzz had decided that due to the 2009 - 2010 team's success that a team with every major contributor 6'6" or under could be the wave of the future this should put that fear to rest.  It appears that Buzz is absolutely paranoid of going into next season in that condition.  Gardner, Short and for that matter Mbao and Otule are all risks for one reason or another.  As many have said big men are a rare commodity and good ones are even rarer in the Spring signing period.  For some reason that I can't exactly figure MU hasn't even been able to recruit to what I would consider a high major level befitting their position in the BE.  I've got to believe that Buzz will fix that long term.  But in the short term he is pulling out all the stops in the hopes that at least of couple of these guys will work out.  Its an inexact science that gets even harder when you are working with "whats left".  I'm just glad to see he seems as concerned about the overall problem as I think we should be. 

MedicineHatSpanker

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http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/recruiting/player-Steadman-Short-68179

Was a two star ranked recruit, based on Rivals in 2008.

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you! Not only would he would dare turn down an offer from It's Indiana It's Indiana but as a two star recruit he is precisely the level of talent Tanned Tommy specializes in! How dare he! How dare he, I say!

bamamarquettefan

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my only difference with NotAnAlum is that this year's class is ranked 2nd among Big East schools behind Syracuse, so I don't think you can say Marquette has not recruited at a BE level.  If I could offer a slight amendment, we have had trouble recruiting BE-TYPE players, getting great guards and guys in the 6-5 range (Hayward, Butler, Crowder, Matthews) but none of the bruisers that much of the BE manages to get.  Not always a bad thing, when teams can't match up with us, but I am happy to see Buzz filling in at least some real possibilities above 6-foot-6.
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NotAnAlum

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yes, I was referring to recruiting centers and power players.  Our recruiting has been fine at the other postions which adds to the mystery.

wadesworld

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yes, I was referring to recruiting centers and power players.  Our recruiting has been fine at the other postions which adds to the mystery.
It's not much of a mystery.  I'll answer it with a couple of questions and see if you can find the answer yourself.  How many 5'10"-6'6" athletes are there out there?  How many 6'10" "bangers" are there out there?

In order to land the VERY select few guys who satisfy the description of "big banger" you have to start by taking risks on unproven tall guys and hope to develop them.  I'm going to guess that you'll bring up the fact that smaller schools have these players, but they're almost all seniors who came in like an Mbao and worked hard to get where they are.
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esotericmindguy

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Also its pretty easy to recruit against MU when it comes to bigs....opposing coaches ask them, "Mr. 6'10, how many big men have developed and went to the NBA at MU?  Its a gaurd and wing school, you don't want to go there and be underutilized.  I'd bet all coaches recruit against MU that way, once one of these "projects" pans out it'll be much easier.  All these guys have dreams of getting paid to play basketball.

And Buzz knows what he's doing and 99 percent of us on this board are pretty clueless but enjoy following it...to say "no thanks" because he averaged 7 and 6 as a freshman seems a little ridiculous.

Tugg Speedman

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Let me turn the question around ... take any guy off the team, including the incoming freshman, and replace them with Short.  Is the team better, the same, or worse?

Under any scenario it looks like Short is a downgrade.

So, yes I trust Buzz.  It just looks like the team is going the wrong way with this potential offer.

4everwarriors

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Let me turn the question around ... take any guy off the team, including the incoming freshman, and replace them with Short.  Is the team better, the same, or worse?

Under any scenario it looks like Short is a downgrade.

So, yes I trust Buzz.  It just looks like the team is going the wrong way with this potential offer.


You're assuming a couple of points that are not necessarily a given:

1. Someone is getting Creaned. Player may be leaving by his own choosing.
2. Looking into a crystal ball and assuming at the end of one's eligibility, Short has a lesser collegiate career than the player who he replaced.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Tugg Speedman

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You're assuming a couple of points that are not necessarily a given:

1. Someone is getting Creaned. Player may be leaving by his own choosing.
2. Looking into a crystal ball and assuming at the end of one's eligibility, Short has a lesser collegiate career than the player who he replaced.

Not assuming someone is getting Creaned.  Just assuming someone is leaving/not qualifying to make room.  It's simple math.  The reason why is not important.  The fact that it is happening is.

regarding #2 ... you are half correct.  We don't know what Short's colliegate career will look like.  But we have to compare him to whoever is leaving.  Given this, I don't see how losing one of the existing 14 and plugging in Short makes the team better.   

El Duderino

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Not assuming someone is getting Creaned.  Just assuming someone is leaving/not qualifying to make room.  It's simple math.  The reason why is not important.  The fact that it is happening is.

regarding #2 ... you are half correct.  We don't know what Short's colliegate career will look like.  But we have to compare him to whoever is leaving.  Given this, I don't see how losing one of the existing 14 and plugging in Short makes the team better.


I like Buzz a lot, but more so than even how this guy Short would turn out if he came, i really hope that none of the kids who committed earlier is getting pushed out the door, even if the push is only a nudge.

Buzz doesn't strike me as a phony when it comes to genuinely caring about his players and thus i'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the practice of over recruiting. I want to believe that Buzz wouldn't try to talk a committed recruit into leaving just because he got someone to sign later that Buzz liked better. So while i'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that for now, i'll be disappointed if i hear differently later on. It would go beyond disappointment if that practice became fairly common so i hope it never even begins.

nycwarrior

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I'm assuming, for now, that 1-2 of our 13 - 14 players cannot play next year for reasons other than Buzz found someone he likes better.

Time will tell if the chase of the last three weeks has been smart, last-minute gap-plugging or potentially dangerous over-recruiting.

NotAnAlum

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Let me turn the question around ... take any guy off the team, including the incoming freshman, and replace them with Short.  Is the team better, the same, or worse?

Just like in previous threads your statement is based upon looking at this as a trade so you are assuming that Buzz is pushing out a guy who would otherwise stay at MU and on the 13 man roster.  I just don't think that Buzz works like that.  I believe that this signals that a player is either going to leave or can't get in REGARDLESS.  So I think you look at this as "Is it better to have Short or have a open roster spot that could be used later".  My feeling is given the fact that none of these PF/C guys are sure things the more the better.  For instance we could see Gardner come in, not be able to control his weight and leave the team prior to the start of the season.  We could see Otule re-injure his foot and realize his body can't take the stress of basketball.  If that happens and some other guy leaves regardless we're looking awful small again.



Tugg Speedman

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Just like in previous threads your statement is based upon looking at this as a trade so you are assuming that Buzz is pushing out a guy who would otherwise stay at MU and on the 13 man roster. 

Yes, I do look at like a trade.  And, no I am not assuming that Buzz is pushing someone out. 

When I see that Short has been offered and read about him, I conclude that he is not as good as any of the 14 we currently have.  Offering him a spot suggests someone is leaving, probably for reasons that don't have to do with Buzz asking them to leave.  No matter who it is, and whatever the reason, taking any person off our current roster and inserting Short looks like a downgrade.

bilsu

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I do not know anything more than anyone else. I suspect that Mbao knees will never allow him to become a viable player and that he will be taking the McMorrow route and stay at MU, but not be on the team anymore. I have nothing to back this up, but that is what makes sense to me. I also suspect that Newbill was signed with the agreement he would go to prep school for a year. Signing Newbill allows Buzz to bring him in during summer school so he can work on his game. I have no idea how good Short is, but Buzz in his first two years ended up not having enough players to practice with, so I can fully understand why he wants 13 players on board. Of course, if I am right about Newbill, the question becomes which helps the team more, Newbill or Short? The fact is that this is all speculation and perhaps until we know we should not criticize. Also, if there is a player health issue, we probably will never know about it. Given that it is obvious that Buzz is trying to sign another player and I assume Noreen is no longer a possibility that debate would be would you rather have Short or Hahn. It apprears Buzz rather have Short, but if Short turns us down does that bring Hahn back in the picture.

Boone

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No. Hahn is REALLY bad.

mikem91288

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I think AnotherMU84's Poll should go back up.

Its obvious that at least one spot is open probably more. I think this offer all but assures Mbao is out. I also think the "Big Ox" has not qualified academically yet. His coach told Rosiak he just took the SAT again. Plus, if another recruit does not qualify academically, that gives us 3 potential spots. Personally, I'd like to see Mbao and Gardner stay on and Smith or Newbill do a prep year.

Also, anyone think we still might sign Noreen? Or did he turn an offer down that's not there anymore?
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4everwarriors

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Mikey,
I agree Mbao has been toast for quite a while. Noreen is a white hot commodity now and has been racking up the frequent flyer miles to the point where he can probably travel at no charge for the next 10 years. Don't expect him in a Warrior uni.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Dawson Rental

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Yes, I do look at like a trade.  And, no I am not assuming that Buzz is pushing someone out.  

When I see that Short has been offered and read about him, I conclude that he is not as good as any of the 14 we currently have.  Offering him a spot suggests someone is leaving, probably for reasons that don't have to do with Buzz asking them to leave.  No matter who it is, and whatever the reason, taking any person off our current roster and inserting Short looks like a downgrade.

I think that those posters in this thread who doubt Short's abilities are overlooking a significant difference between Short and Buzz's other JC recruits, Short when he played Div I ball at High Point played for the entire year for a coach, Bart Lundy, who is now on MU's basketball staff.  As well as Buzz's JC connections have served him in the past, he's got even better information this time because he has access to a coach who saw first hand how Short handled ALL aspects of being a Div I player, not just how he played, but also how he practiced, how he did in individual workouts, and in the classroom.  Buzz clearly has the goods on who Short is, and based on that, stating that Short is downgrade can only be a knee jerk reaction that just hasn't been thought through.
You actually have a degree from Marquette?

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No...and after reading many many psosts from people on this board that do...I have to say I'm MUCH better off, if this is the type of "intelligence" a degree from MU gets you. It sure is on full display I will say that.

 

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