Goodman: MARQUETTE FRESHMAN CADOUGAN CLEARED; BUZZ NOT SURE IF AND WHEN HE'LL PL

[NavinRJohnson]

I hate to bring this up, but the decision could be an indication of Buzz's future plans. Buzz is more likely to encourage Cadougan to red shirt, if Buzz plans on being here for the long run. If he views MU as a stepping stone, then he is going to do everything to win right away. That may of been part of the reason why Crean let Mbakwe play. I do believe Buzz is happy here and I expect him to stay a long time. I do not think Buzz is feeling the pressure to win this year to save his job, which would be another reason for Buzz to play Cadougan. I think the decision should be made by Cadougan's mother and I hope he does not play this year.

In my opinion, this is completely misguided. Buzz has always been consistent that the program is about the players. I don't see anyway he lets his own career objectives impact this decision in any way. The overall health of the program? Perhaps somewhat, though I' don't see that having much impact. Buzz should and will have an opinion, and will no doubt communicate it, but I have complete faith that he will ultimately put the decision in the hands of the doctors, Junior and his family.

[MUrugger]

I answered ABSOLUTELY NO to the poll in an earlier thread and still feel that way; some stream of consciousness reasons behind that thinking:

1.  That's a serious injury, incurred late summer;give it plenty of time to heal.
2.  This team is developing some good chemistry with seniors that he would be taking P.T. from making the biggest contributions of their MU careers.
3.  Recent history says don't mess with a good thing on the hope that things can get even better.  We totally tanked when Mbwake came back.
4.  I scoff at the notion that Junior needs the experience because we lack PG options next year; I see 3. What about Reggie Smith?  Vander Blue? Buycks?
5.  Junior's undetermined "pro" future is tied in many ways to the presence of a solid big man.  I don't see one in a 4 yr. horizon; one might show in 5.
6.  He was first mentally prepared to sit out.  I say let him mentally, emotionally, hunger and all that, prepare for his time next year.

[79Warrior]

I hate to bring this up, but the decision could be an indication of Buzz's future plans. Buzz is more likely to encourage Cadougan to red shirt, if Buzz plans on being here for the long run. If he views MU as a stepping stone, then he is going to do everything to win right away. That may of been part of the reason why Crean let Mbakwe play. I do believe Buzz is happy here and I expect him to stay a long time. I do not think Buzz is feeling the pressure to win this year to save his job, which would be another reason for Buzz to play Cadougan. I think the decision should be made by Cadougan's mother and I hope he does not play this year.

that is just absurd. actually, both points are,your thinking on Buzz and Crean. Just nonsense.

[Golden Avalanche]

First off, you play your best players.  This isn't middle school where you worry about player's feelings.  These are grown men, treat them like them.

Secondly, the BEAST is down this year... and we play an especially easy schedule from here on out. 

Thirdly, it isn't as if JC has been sitting on his butt and not doing anything basketball related.  He works out everyday and I am sure there is plenty of things he can do to keep pace.  I realize that there is nothing like being on the court at full speed, but lets be real here.  He is working every day with a trainer.  There is no way he is out of shape.

I agree on best players. I also agree you don't worry about feelings. You'll notice on a second reading, I wrote we could lose them "mentally". I didn't write "emotionally". What I mean is they simply check out. Senior-itis. You don't want that. I also wrote it won't happen because both have been through far worse.

Don't matter if the Big East is down or up. The speed/intensity/desire in a conference game is higher then others. Players tell you that all the time. Cadougan wouldn't have the luxury of slowly greasing the wheels versus Grambling. Its an adjustment. That's all I'm writing.

Where did I ever write he was out of shape? And practice and game are two different worlds. Loads of MU players have commented on that as well as above over the last four years since we joined the Big East.

FWIW, in reference to sitting on butt comment....Buzz said last night that he doesn't speak to Cadougan all that much except to say "hello". So, no, he's not sitting on ass but it's also not like he's fully involved yet in serious basketball activity which some people seem to think.

[GGGG]

4.  I scoff at the notion that Junior needs the experience because we lack PG options next year; I see 3. What about Reggie Smith?  Vander Blue? Buycks?

Two freshman...one of whom doesn't play the position in high school...and Buycks.  Have you seen Buycks with the ball?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I hate to bring this up, but the decision could be an indication of Buzz's future plans. Buzz is more likely to encourage Cadougan to red shirt, if Buzz plans on being here for the long run. If he views MU as a stepping stone, then he is going to do everything to win right away. That may of been part of the reason why Crean let Mbakwe play. I do believe Buzz is happy here and I expect him to stay a long time. I do not think Buzz is feeling the pressure to win this year to save his job, which would be another reason for Buzz to play Cadougan. I think the decision should be made by Cadougan's mother and I hope he does not play this year.

I think it's clear that Buzz is taking his time with this...making sure he's doing the right thing by Junior and the team.

I will always believe Mbakwe was activated out of the blue because ESPN was in town for the game and a-hole thought it would excite fans and give the announcers something to talk about. He's absolutely that shallow.

[77ncaachamps]

Two freshman...one of whom doesn't play the position in high school...and Buycks.  Have you seen Buycks with the ball?

But that was due to the coaching transition that saw Tyshawn leave MU for KU and Christopherson leave MU for ISU. After DJ was Coobs and Acker but a void was left after those two.

[WarriorHal]

If he is going to play, we should find out one way or the other Wed. night (DePaul). The Sat. date with Syracuse might not be the best spot for someone to make their college debut.

[MUrugger]

I'm still scoffing Sultan.  If I get this right you think I'm nuts for thinking that Smith, Blue and Buycks might provide alternative options to Junior on the point.  (I'm not a fan of Buycks with the ball by the way, but we're talking options here--I am following Smith here in CHI tho and am huge on Reggie.)

And while I should be committed for suggesting two Freshman as potential alternatives, you want to bring a Freshman off a serious achilles injury, who hasn't even practiced, in NOW and give him the ball and say "go win us some BE games and get us into the tourney."

I'm not just scoffing at the notion of no options, I'm scoffing at the self-indulgent, authoritative, all-knowing and almost pompous manner in which the idea was presented in the first place.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I answered ABSOLUTELY NO to the poll in an earlier thread and still feel that way; some stream of consciousness reasons behind that thinking:


3.  Recent history says don't mess with a good thing on the hope that things can get even better.  We totally tanked when Mbwake came back.

We did?

His first game back, we beat Pittsburgh by 18 points.

His second game we beat St. John's in New York.

His third game we beat Rutgers

His fourth game we beat Villanova in Philly.

His fifth game was the OT game where DJ fouled G'Town with just a few seconds left or we win that game.

We won the 6th game

We lost to Syracuse in the 7th game at Syracuse

Beat Seton Hall in the 8th game Mbakwe was back, opening round of the Big East Tournament

Beat Notre Dame in the quarterfinals

Lost to Pittsburgh in the semi-finals

Beat Kentucky in the NCAAs

Lost to Stanford on a miracle shot in OT.

How exactly did we "tank" (let alone, "totally tank") when Mbakwe came back?  We went 8-3 with all three losses coming against ranked teams and we beat 2 ranked teams ourselves.

I wouldn't call that tanking.

[4everwarriors]

Are you certain his first game back wasn't the Georgetown game at the end of Feb.?

[4everwarriors]

Before Jr. plays I think Buzz should get a second opinion from that world-class orthopedist in Indianapolis who's tight with Crean.

[GGGG]

I'm still scoffing Sultan.  If I get this right you think I'm nuts for thinking that Smith, Blue and Buycks might provide alternative options to Junior on the point.  (I'm not a fan of Buycks with the ball by the way, but we're talking options here--I am following Smith here in CHI tho and am huge on Reggie.)

And while I should be committed for suggesting two Freshman as potential alternatives, you want to bring a Freshman off a serious achilles injury, who hasn't even practiced, in NOW and give him the ball and say "go win us some BE games and get us into the tourney."

I'm not saying Junior needs to go out and win some games.  I'm saying that Junior could provide depth at guard, and get some experience that might be valuable next year.  We have no experience at that position next year.

As for the injury itself, I'll let the doctors figure that out.  No one here really can judge that.

[GOMU1104]

If  he is ready he should play. We shouldnt worry about him losing a 5th year of eligiblity...who knows what is going to happen 3, 4, 5 years down the line?

If the Dr says hes fine, Buzz thinks he can contribute, and JR feels ready...he should play.

[reinko]

I answered ABSOLUTELY NO to the poll in an earlier thread and still feel that way; some stream of consciousness reasons behind that thinking:

1.  That's a serious injury, incurred late summer;give it plenty of time to heal.
2.  This team is developing some good chemistry with seniors that he would be taking P.T. from making the biggest contributions of their MU careers.
3.  Recent history says don't mess with a good thing on the hope that things can get even better.  We totally tanked when Mbwake came back.
4.  I scoff at the notion that Junior needs the experience because we lack PG options next year; I see 3. What about Reggie Smith?  Vander Blue? Buycks?
5.  Junior's undetermined "pro" future is tied in many ways to the presence of a solid big man.  I don't see one in a 4 yr. horizon; one might show in 5.
6.  He was first mentally prepared to sit out.  I say let him mentally, emotionally, hunger and all that, prepare for his time next year.

On point 1: Are you a doctor?  If so, are you JC's doctor?
On point 2: Just pure hyperbole.  Good chemistry?  Sure, but we essentially have a 7 man rotation.
On point 3:  Chicos dismantled that already.
On point 4: I agree with Sultan, that depending on 2 freshmen (one of who plays SG) and Buycks, then poo-pooing the notion that this experience would not be important is a bit short-sighted.
On point 5: This is just filled with speculation.  Where is the proof that the presence of a solid big man contributes to a college PG having NBA success?  And you are also speculating that we will not have a serviceable big man come in during the next 4 years.
On point 6:  Again hyperbole and speculation. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think it's clear that Buzz is taking his time with this...making sure he's doing the right thing by Junior and the team.

I will always believe Mbakwe was activated out of the blue because ESPN was in town for the game and a-hole thought it would excite fans and give the announcers something to talk about. He's absolutely that shallow.

Follow-up for you since this is how you feel.  Why didn't he play McNeal against Michigan State in the NCAAs?  McNeal said he could have played.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are you certain his first game back wasn't the Georgetown game at the end of Feb.?

Yes, certain.  Here's the article

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/021508abl.html

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2008/02/trevor-mbakwe-cleared-to-play.html

[4everwarriors]

Follow-up for you since this is how you feel.  Why didn't he play McNeal against Michigan State in the NCAAs?  McNeal said he could have played.

McNeal never had a glimmer of a chance to play vs. MSU. He just had surgery on that hand. His warm-up and uniform for he game was just a decoy thrown up by his coach.

[ChicosBailBonds]

McNeal never had a glimmer of a chance to play vs. MSU. He just had surgery on that hand. His warm-up and uniform for he game was just a decoy thrown up by his coach.

Not according to McNeal, but I tend to agree...he shouldn't have played and didn't.

On Mbakwe, he wanted to play, was cleared to play, he played and MU didn't suffer at all for it.

[MUrugger]

Gotta respond to some smack and clarify positions I have taken on this thread, (lest someone think they'll blow some smack and I'll just go away):

A guy on this thread (not Sultan) asked me to state my case for a strong NO vote on whether Junior should play this year tho it was just my opinion.

I came up with six thoughts that I'm gonna hold on to. Chicos whacked me pretty good on the notion that we "totally tanked" (my words) after Mbwake came back.  He had the evidence to back his point and I stand corrected.  Then Sultan came in with his strong difference of opinion.

I just continue to have such an empty (tanked) feeling the way the last two years have ended.  That Brooke Lopez shot over Burke to end the '08 campaign (w/Jerel hurt) is as painful as last year's peter-out when DJ got hurt.  And I contend that Mbwake's 1.5 ppg and 2.1 rpg contribution in '08 was debatable and maybe even hurt us.

Finally another guy who often adds a +1 to Sultan's comments claimed most of my argument was hyperbole.  Unless they've changed the definition, hyperbole means an obvious exaggeration, like "waiting for an eternity."  Nothing in that post was an obvious and intended exaggeration.
I don't mind the dissent, but get it right if you don't agree.

[reinko]

Gotta respond to some smack and clarify positions I have taken on this thread, (lest someone think they'll blow some smack and I'll just go away):

A guy on this thread (not Sultan) asked me to state my case for a strong NO vote on whether Junior should play this year tho it was just my opinion.

I came up with six thoughts that I'm gonna hold on to. Chicos whacked me pretty good on the notion that we "totally tanked" (my words) after Mbwake came back.  He had the evidence to back his point and I stand corrected.  Then Sultan came in with his strong difference of opinion.

I just continue to have such an empty (tanked) feeling the way the last two years have ended.  That Brooke Lopez shot over Burke to end the '08 campaign (w/Jerel hurt) is as painful as last year's peter-out when DJ got hurt.  And I contend that Mbwake's 1.5 ppg and 2.1 rpg contribution in '08 was debatable and maybe even hurt us.

Finally another guy who often adds a +1 to Sultan's comments claimed most of my argument was hyperbole.  Unless they've changed the definition, hyperbole means an obvious exaggeration, like "waiting for an eternity."  Nothing in that post was an obvious and intended exaggeration.
I don't mind the dissent, but get it right if you don't agree.

I think I am that other guy, who has actually +1 Sultan once, but once = often I suppose. 

And Jerel was injured in the 2006-2007 season, not 2008.  But same thing right?

And your post states that I claimed that most of your argument was hyperbole?  Well two of your six reasons actually.  33% must mean most, eh? 

And yes, I think you are exaggerating this team's chemistry as reason enough not to play JC.  We have lost too many games this year, by too little of a margin, with too short of a bench to contend that "team chemistry" might be disrupted if JC plays.

And yes, I also think you are exaggerating when you are talking about his mental toughness.

Your serve.

[Dienerfor3]

That Brooke Lopez shot over Burke to end the '08 campaign (w/Jerel hurt) is as painful as last year's peter-out when DJ got hurt. 

Actually, Jerel played and dropped 30.

[GOMU1104]

Rough day for MUrugger

[77champs]

Juniors injury is not the type you are 100% when u are at the point where you are cleared to play.  It takes time to trust everything again which varies by athlete but one year is not uncommon to essentially feel like your old self.

So amid the speculation, it is great that he will be able to practice and if he comes along quickly it will be a difficult decision to weigh the extra year against what could be contributed now.  To have him really ready for the BETour, he would need some games under his belt and that decision would likely have to be made prior to knowing if he can continue to improve to expected levels by March.   No matter sentiment, you are rolling the dice.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Follow-up for you since this is how you feel.  Why didn't he play McNeal against Michigan State in the NCAAs?  McNeal said he could have played.

McNeal could not have played with a broken thumb. He had also played the entire season. Mbakwe torched an entire year's eligibility by returning for a small portion of the season, getting little playing time in the process. It was absurd to activate him.