Belling Blasts Buzz

[Pakuni]

I'm just saying he is getting hung up on the word, which is the foundation of his argument and frankly isn't important. Before Belling's comments or this thread existed, had I or anyone else posted,  "t looks like Maymon 'pressured' Blue to come to MU," would anyone have even thought twice about it, let alone criticized it? Of course not. The reactions would have been somewhere along the lines of. "Good job Jeronne." "Assist to Maymon." Etc.

For a second time ... the word pressure, by definition and certainly by connotation, implies use of physical or mental force and coercin.
So, understanding what the word means, I would have to say "No, Jeronne Maymon did not pressue Vander Blue into attending Marquette University."
Did he persuade him? Encourage him? Convince him? Coax him?
I'm sure he did all of the above.
But unlike "pressure" none of those words denote force or carry negative connotations.

And, for a second time, you're being might naive and generous if you believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence.

[avid1010]

Well, one of seems to have an open mind, and one of us obviously doesn't (I'll let you figure out which is which).

It is not an issue of supporting Mark Belling (or Andy Katz, or Bill Michaels....), it is an issue of why people get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. I can assure you you, me, and everyone that has commented in this thread has expressed many incorrect opinions along the line, just as we have listened to incorrect opinions. I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).

You on the other hand, in an extremely tolerant and open minded way, question whether or not I went to MU, and indicate I have no class because I dare stand up for the right and ability of someone you disagree with or don't like to express an opinion. You choose to focus on whom I am defending as opposed to what I am defending. But you are the one who displays those Jesuit values. Whatever.

I'm not Jesuit...just posed a question.  I do not have an open mind to Mark.  I see no reason to listen to a racists. 

The reason I say you have no class is because the word you referred to me and others as.  Typically when one has to refer to that type of tactic in a discussion it's a give away that they are on the defensive.  My apologies for not happily accepting your classless choice of words.  I found it ironic that you reverted to the same type of name calling that got Mark in trouble when he busted out the wetback comment.  For someone who doesn't buy much of what he says, you sure act in a similar matter.  Freedom of speech has little to do with those who choose to lie, and Mark is a liar. 

[NavinRJohnson]

And, for a second time, you're being might naive and generous if you believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence.

Thank you for this, because it helps me make/reinforce a couple different points...

Mark Belling never used the word pressure in describing what happened. So much for that. What he did say was...

"Buzz Williams asked Jeronne Maymon to work as hard as he can on his HS temmate, Vander Blue, to get him to change his mind and come to Marquette."

"This was Jerone Maymon, working, working, working his long-time HS temmate, Vander Blue, saying, "Don't go to the Badgers. Come here to Marquette, we're building something. Buzz Williams is progressive. Bo Ryan is a stone age old coach..."

"This was the Marquette Coach going through one of his current players, getting Vander Blue to back out of his commitment to UW."

Oops!

So not only did Mark Belling not imply any sort of force by using the word 'pressure', as you so naively suggested, but you in fact inferred as much based entirely on an inaccurate and incomplete description of what was said. You obviously felt qualified to comment on what he said, despite not actually listening to what he said. Which MSM outlet do you work for?

Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.

Again. Thanks for the assist on this one.

[avid1010]

Just, as this thread demonstrates, many look at it and say "Oh Belling said it, it must not be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be incorrect".

Each one is as bad as the other.

You couldn't be more wrong.  The way I, and many people look at it, is Belling said it so it means nothing because he is a proven liar and has no credibility among educated people.

The problem is there are also many people who are fooled by the way he lies and twists stories, just as he did with his rant on MU.  MU can continue to recruit and win; however, people like Belling will continue to lie about anything that can possible be twisted to be subjective.  

[NavinRJohnson]

You couldn't be more wrong.  The way I, and many people look at it, is Belling said it so it means nothing because he is a proven liar and has no credibility among educated people.

Do I really need to say anything, or is the irony of this comment as blatantly obvious to everyone else as it is to me?

[Jam Chowder]

Freedom of speech has little to do with those who choose to lie, and Mark is a liar. 

Are you serious? At least you're not attempting to espouse laughably profound and broad-sweeping philosophical opinions based on a trivial argument over a talk-radio host.

I didn't know there were such imposing limits on who got freedom of speech! That doesn't sound much like it's free at all!

WHAT A RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION.

[Hards Alumni]

Generally I  agree with Belling, but I listened to his rant against Buzz, and laughed.  

It was uninformed to say the least.  He has his mind made up about anything MU, and no logic will change that.  It started with Fr. DiUlio closing Wisconsin Ave. and has never ended.

This is a VERY telling sentence.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He's the Rush Limbaugh of Milwaukee

Hardly...he's more like the Ed Schultz of Milwaukee

[ChicosBailBonds]

my few sentences to Mark



"It's funny, when two "thugs" on the Wisconsin basketball team a few weeks ago stole iPods and hundreds of dollars from other students dorm rooms, I don't recall you saying a word about the THUGS that Bo Ryan has recruited.  I wonder why..

The simple fact of the matter is that Buzz Williams exemplifies the American dream.  He went from rags to riches, picked himself up by his bootstraps and became a self made man through a VERY LONG process.  He's a believer in a higher authority, he demands accountability, he's a strong family man.  Isn't this what conservative principles are all about?  He's a doer, the very thing that you espouse people should be.

Has he taken a chance on some recruits?  Yes, to some extent, but all within the rules of the NCAA.  This year MU will be young, but talented.  They will likely struggle to be .500 in the conference, but the outlook is bright.

Belling, the second you open up your mouth about sports, you instantly become the dumbest man in the world in front of a microphone.  You've done this for years and immediately saps any credibility you may actually have on other topics.  Stick to blasting Doyle and the People's Republic of Wisconsin where at least some of your points are salient, but stay out of sports because you have shown over 20 years to be one of the most inarticulate voices on a subject anyone could hope to find."

[Shack]

my few sentences to Mark



"It's funny, when two "thugs" on the Wisconsin basketball team a few weeks ago stole iPods and hundreds of dollars from other students dorm rooms, I don't recall you saying a word about the THUGS that Bo Ryan has recruited.  I wonder why..

The simple fact of the matter is that Buzz Williams exemplifies the American dream.  He went from rags to riches, picked himself up by his bootstraps and became a self made man through a VERY LONG process.  He's a believer in a higher authority, he demands accountability, he's a strong family man.  Isn't this what conservative principles are all about?  He's a doer, the very thing that you espouse people should be.

Has he taken a chance on some recruits?  Yes, to some extent, but all within the rules of the NCAA.  This year MU will be young, but talented.  They will likely struggle to be .500 in the conference, but the outlook is bright.

Belling, the second you open up your mouth about sports, you instantly become the dumbest man in the world in front of a microphone.  You've done this for years and immediately saps any credibility you may actually have on other topics.  Stick to blasting Doyle and the People's Republic of Wisconsin where at least some of your points are salient, but stay out of sports because you have shown over 20 years to be one of the most inarticulate voices on a subject anyone could hope to find."

Wow I think I just found my divorce lawyer.  Nicely said. 

[Strokin 3s]

I find this thread funny because half way through I started reading Navin's posts with Belling's voice inflection in my head.  I think they may be one in the same.  Try it for your own amusement it's fun!

[GGGG]

When he first came to town, Belling was entertaining and somewhat refreshing.  I don't agree with his politics all of the time, but I listened to his show. 

I now live in Indiana, so I didn't hear this first hand, but my wife has a family member who is involved in local Milwaukee politics.  About seven years ago, he went on a rant about him that included some very personal attacks and was filled with misinformation.  My wife's relative called in to address some of Belling's attacks, and even talked with the call screener, but Belling wouldn't put him on even though he had plenty of time to do so.  He decided to go on ranting for another five minutes.

This taught me one thing.  Mark Belling is a turd.  He cares more about ratings and wild exaggeration than he does the truth.  People need to make sure to keep that in mind as they listen to him.

[Pakuni]

Thank you for this, because it helps me make/reinforce a couple different points...

Mark Belling never used the word pressure in describing what happened. So much for that. What he did say was...

"Buzz Williams asked Jeronne Maymon to work as hard as he can on his HS temmate, Vander Blue, to get him to change his mind and come to Marquette."

"This was Jerone Maymon, working, working, working his long-time HS temmate, Vander Blue, saying, "Don't go to the Badgers. Come here to Marquette, we're building something. Buzz Williams is progressive. Bo Ryan is a stone age old coach..."

"This was the Marquette Coach going through one of his current players, getting Vander Blue to back out of his commitment to UW."

Oops!

So not only did Mark Belling not imply any sort of force by using the word 'pressure', as you so naively suggested, but you in fact inferred as much based entirely on an inaccurate and incomplete description of what was said. You obviously felt qualified to comment on what he said, despite not actually listening to what he said. Which MSM outlet do you work for?

Again. Thanks for the assist on this one.

So wait ... you respond to a detailed account of what Belling said that quotes him as using the word "pressure," never contradicting it. You later repeat that the term was used. You defend the use of the word. You indicate that you yourself believe there was pressure and scoff at the notion that Blue was not pressured.

And now you come back and say Belling never used the word and that I'm naive for having suggested it. I repeat ... that I suggested it? Not only did I not suggest it, I responed to your posts which not only implied confirmation, but agreed with it.

Love the MSM swipe.
Located on Page 1 of the Dopey Conservative Playbook*: When in doubt, blame the media.

Man, are you on a roll today.

* = not to be confused with the Intelligent Conservative Playbook which, unfortuantely, has gathered nothing but dust for the past decade.

[NavinRJohnson]

And now you come back and say Belling never used the word and that I'm naive for having suggested it. I repeat ... that I suggested it? Not only did I not suggest it, I responed to your posts which not only implied confirmation, but agreed with it.

Sorry to break it to you Sources, but the first time the word pressure was referenced (beyond the initial post/summary) was when you said...

"What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."

From there, yes I did defend the use of the word, because unlike you, who are not naive and generous enough to believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence, I see no problem with that word being used to describe what happened. Again, you obviously know what you are talking about, and understand the sinister and malicious motives he had in using the word that he didn't use (perhaps it actually was benign coincidence). Based on the person saying it, you had already decided that he was wrong or had some sort of axe to grind.

If you can show me where I repeated that the term 'pressure' was used, I'd love to see it. I said that it is what took place, and that was an accurate and perfectly fine description.  I didn't get hung up on a single word, or look for some motivation for using a particular word because it was the basis for my entire argument.

The larger point you demonstrated very well was the way people go off on someone's opinion based on who they are and and incomplete and inaccurate summary that is provided.

As for the MSM swipe, see the comment immediately above. Those Rush Limbaugh slavery comments ring a bell? I realize the situations are very different as in that case, people repeated comments someone never made, as fact, along with the deeper beliefs and motivations of that person.

As to the Conservative playbook, not sure what I am blaming the MSM for in this case, but you obviously have me accurately pegged as a 'dopey conservative,' so I'm sure you're right. That's exactly what I'm doing....Blaming the MSM for ...you...being...wrong....Yeah.

[NavinRJohnson]

Located on Page 1 of the Dopey Conservative Playbook*: When in doubt, blame the media.

BTW, looks like that book may have fallen into the wrong hands recently, as at 1600 Pennsylvania, Fox News is a bigger enemy than the Taliban these days.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos note was the best one. Perfect and to the point. I do think Belling probably has some well-heeled contacts among the MU faithful and his use of the term "thugs" was very unfortunate and more than likely not what his acquaintances told him. Interesting direction recruiting, wise? I'd say so. Thugs? I don't think so.

By the way, Belling's grilling of Crean over the Gold fiasco was an all time classic. It's also when I first figured out (later confirmed) that it was TC's idea the entire time.

[wadesworld]

You know baseball season is over and basketball season has begun when I am agreeing with wadesworld.

Great email wadesworld.  You probably won't get a response but for sure post it if you do.

Hah +1 about the first part.

Here was his response.  It is very well thought out and is a response to about 4 sentences of my entire email:

The comment on "thugs" is based on Monterale Clark and the fact that Williams is dealing with a "junior college" in Texas in which all of the students mysteriously are on the basketball team.  I'm told by a top local AAU official that most schools won't touch these players.  And no, I don't apologize for focusing on the fact Marquette recruited a known delinquent kicked out of three Milwaukee high schools and now facing rape charges.
 
Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this)   It's hard to win if you only get choir boys.  But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.

[avid1010]

Are you serious? At least you're not attempting to espouse laughably profound and broad-sweeping philosophical opinions based on a trivial argument over a talk-radio host.

I didn't know there were such imposing limits on who got freedom of speech! That doesn't sound much like it's free at all!

WHAT A RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION.

No one is imposing limits.  The concept is that, for some reason, a few on this board seem to think it's fine to toss around dangerous opinions based on lies and hide behind freedom of speech.  The two have nothing in common.  To me, Mark slandered MU with his comments that were knowingly untruthful. 

[avid1010]

Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this)   It's hard to win if you only get choir boys.  But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.

Love it.  The fact that Mark prefers TC to Buzz makes me think MU should add a few years to Buzz's contract 

[NavinRJohnson]

n

[Jam Chowder]

No one is imposing limits.  The concept is that, for some reason, a few on this board seem to think it's fine to toss around dangerous opinions based on lies and hide behind freedom of speech.  The two have nothing in common.  To me, Mark slandered MU with his comments that were knowingly untruthful. 

AND in the free marketplace of ideas (which only functions when freedom of speech exists) the competition of ideas (dialogue and discussion) should marginalize lies and stupidity. This clearly happens (as evidenced by this board's ridicule of Belling), and it shouldn't be a big deal. The response shouldn't be to criticize that certain people claim to have or are excused by free speech. What opinions are "dangerous?" That concept ONLY serves to censor opinions people don't agree with. I don't know that anything I've heard from him was a lie as much as a slanted understanding and retelling of the facts. Everyone agrees he's out of line, and the answer isn't to say he shouldn't have free speech.

[spiral97]

Wow..

My first reply in this thread was that he sounds incredibly idiotic.

3.5 pages of replies later... well.. sounds like we're all giving him exactly what he wants - attention.  Maybe he's the genius after all. 

[77ncaachamps]

Not really.

We're just passionate about Marquette basketball.

Luckily for me, I don't get to hear his rants in CA.

[rocky_warrior]

3.5 pages of replies later... well.. sounds like we're all giving him exactly what he wants - attention.  Maybe he's the genius after all. 

He's no balloon boy.  Thank goodness that story has died off around here (CO) the last couple days.

[StillAWarrior]

Here was his response.  It is very well thought out and is a response to about 4 sentences of my entire email:

The comment on "thugs" is based on Monterale Clark and the fact that Williams is dealing with a "junior college" in Texas in which all of the students mysteriously are on the basketball team.  I'm told by a top local AAU official that most schools won't touch these players.  And no, I don't apologize for focusing on the fact Marquette recruited a known delinquent kicked out of three Milwaukee high schools and now facing rape charges.
 
Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this)   It's hard to win if you only get choir boys.  But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.

That's quite a roster -- 3700 players!  Or maybe he's just talking about the men's team, so there's fewer than 1400 on the team.  They must have a pretty big bench.