MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ChuckyChip on October 21, 2009, 07:48:37 PM
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Happen to catch the tail end of the first hour of Mark Bellings's program on WISN today (not my usual drive-time entertainment) and his take on the Vander Blue situation. Belling started out by ripping Michael Hunt's column in the paper today, then proceed to blast Buzz. Here are some choice lines (I may be paraphrasing slightly):
"Marquette is going to be terrible this year"
"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team"
"Maybe he'll be able to hang onto his job"
"Buzz has been a wrecking crew for that program"
"Marquette appears to be in shambles"
"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job - if MU fires him they risk losing Blue"
Belling also claimed to "break" the true story of Blue's defection to Marquette - Buzz pressured Maymon to pressure Blue to dump Madison and come to Marquette.
Hilarious stuff - you can listen at the link below - chose part 2 of hour 1 - it's at the end.
http://www.belling.com/cc-common/podcast.html
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What's really interesting is I didn't even know this irrelevant c*nt was still on the air.
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Remember Belling admits he doesn't follow college hoops because "its an inferior product to the NBA"
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What the heck was anyone doing "catching the first hour" of the Belling show?
What a loud-mouth, attention seeking, wh***.
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He's a pud
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"Signing Blue might be enough to save Buzz Williams' job at Marquette."
Buzz's job is in jeopardy?
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his research was reading the Badger Board. He is really a piece of work. This is all about trying to stir things up and increase listeners.
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Also, remember WISN isn't the Marquette flagship anymore.
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Also, remember WISN isn't the Marquette flagship anymore.
This, and his feud with Homer has only increased his venom toward MU lately.
He's a blowhard, and even worse when it comes to sports. And heaven forbid someone challenge him on it.
I heard that segment as well, and laughed. How ridiculous.
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When he calls Marquette the evil empire to the east, the rest is inevitable. Does he have a cold or just an effeminate speaking style?
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his research was reading the Badger Board. He is really a piece of work. This is all about trying to stir things up and increase listeners.
Boom, and look! Its working.
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Happen to catch the tail end of the first hour of Mark Bellings's program on WISN today (not my usual drive-time entertainment) and his take on the Vander Blue situation. Belling started out by ripping Michael Hunt's column in the paper today, then proceed to blast Buzz. Here are some choice lines (I may be paraphrasing slightly):
"Marquette is going to be terrible this year"
"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team"
"Maybe he'll be able to hang onto his job"
"Buzz has been a wrecking crew for that program"
"Marquette appears to be in shambles"
"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job - if MU fires him they risk losing Blue"
Belling also claimed to "break" the true story of Blue's defection to Marquette - Buzz pressured Maymon to pressue Blue to dump Madison and come to Marquette.
I heard it too, and while I agree it was a bit over the top, and a bit misinformed as to Buzz's 'status.' let's take a look at what he actually said...
"Marquette is going to be terrible this year" - Terrible may be a bit strong, but relative to the rest of the conference, may well be true.
"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team, [guys are hurt]" - Imploding? No probably not, but does anyone think it was not a very tumultuous off-season?
"Maybe he'll be able to hang onto his job" - Stupid comment.
"Buzz has been a wrecking crew for that program" - Made entirely in reference to the recruiting...specifically taking players we aren't used to around here. I disagree with the comment, but not much different than more than a few of the concerns that have been voiced on this board relative to JUCO's etc.
"Marquette appears to be in shambles" - A couple pf weeks ago, didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit?
"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job - if MU fires him they risk losing Blue" - I don't recall him saying the bold part.
Belling also claimed to "break" the true story of Blue's defection to Marquette - Buzz pressured Maymon to pressue Blue to dump Madison and come to Marquette. - he didn't claim to break anything, he simply said the lazy media in this town didn't care to look into or report what actually happened. He did. Does anyone here doubt that Maymon played an extremely significant role in this? For the record, Belling went on to say that he did not see anything shady or unethical about it.
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When he calls Marquette the evil empire to the east, the rest is inevitable.
Again, in reference to a Badger Fan's perspective which is the context in which he made that comment, what is wrong with that?
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Never heard of the guy... but if he always makes it this obvious that he's an idiot then he's actually making Marquette look good by slamming it.
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Here's the email I just sent him (markbelling@clearchannel.com is listed on his own website; if anybody knows any other emails for him I would appreciate it if you could let me know):
I have two things to show you:
http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/llama/65311697.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTXPR1O9l9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7SEOVeo4SM
Get a clue about what you are talking about before you go off and run your mouth about it. I understand, going out and making some of the most ridiculous comments you possibly can make about the hottest topic in Wisconsin sports (with the exception of anything related to Benedict Brett Favre) gets you listeners and increases ratings for your show. You must REALLY need those listeners, because your comments on Buzz Williams and Marquette basketball are so far off base it is ridiculous.
Let me ask you this, as a professional, did you do your homework before you did this piece? Did you interview Buzz Williams? How about Vander Blue? Or Jeronne Maymon? Hell, you could have even interviewed Bo Ryan and I am sure he would not say anything along the lines of what you said. You talk about Buzz Williams recruiting "thugs." As in plural, or multiple recruits who are thugs. Which ones? Montralle Clark was a mistake, and he never set foot on the campus because of his mistake that Buzz Williams had NO WAY to see coming. Who else? I didn't think you'd find anybody else. Are you one of those people who thinks that because kids went the junior college routes they are automatically thugs? So Dwight Buycks, who would have been fully qualified had the lowly MPS system not failed him so badly in high school that they did not advise him to take courses that he NEEDED to be eligible for college, is a thug? Really? Have you ever spoken to or interacted with the Marquette basketball players? What is your basis for this statement?
You do realize that the "shambles" that you say Marquette is in is a result of the former coach Tom Crean being unable to balance recruiting classes, so he was left with his entire team graduating all at the same time, right? And that Buzz's recruiting of JUCOs is to fix this problem, balancing the classes so that this type of thing does not happen every four years, right? You also do realize that Buzz Williams got a top 10 recruiting class in the nation in his FIRST YEAR ON THE JOB at Marquette, right? And that, with the addition of Vander Blue and 2 more open scholarships for 2010, he is going to have a SECOND ONE IN A ROW, right? When has Bo Ryan had ANY top 10 recruiting classes in the nation? I'll answer that one for you: NEVER! Tom Crean could NEVER get a good recruiting class two years in a row because the only way he knew how to recruit was when he had playing time to offer. Buzz Williams is building a program that has the potential to compete for Big East and National championships, whereas Bo Ryan will always compete for 2nd or 3rd in the Big Televen, but will NEVER be a threat to win a National championship.
Your baseless comments on Marquette's basketball program are an absolute shame to sports radio. You sound just as bitter about losing an incredibly talented recruit as some of the Badger fans are on their forums. My guess is that is where you did your "research." Really professional stuff there, Mark. You should be really proud of yourself.
Your a 40-something year old man calling 17-22 year old boys that you have never met "thugs." Really good stuff there. Don't take off your black and red sunglasses anytime soon, please. You and all of the people embarrassing themselves like you on this situation are making life for Buzz Williams so much easier when it comes to recruiting the top talent within the state. Now Buzz just has to point to articles and interviews like your ridiculous stuff and say "Hey, if you make ONE LITTLE MISTAKE in your life at Wisconsin, this is how they will treat you." It's a shame, Mark. It really is. You should be embarrassed. You clearly have absolutely NO clue as to what you are talking about.
Glad you gave me some entertainment for the night. Enjoy yourself, and enjoy watching Vander break your heart and tear it up at Marquette.
Sincerely,
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Here's the email I just sent him (markbelling@clearchannel.com is listed on his own website; if anybody knows any other emails for him I would appreciate it if you could let me know):
I have two things to show you:
http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/llama/65311697.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTXPR1O9l9g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7SEOVeo4SM
Get a clue about what you are talking about before you go off and run your mouth about it. I understand, going out and making some of the most ridiculous comments you possibly can make about the hottest topic in Wisconsin sports (with the exception of anything related to Benedict Brett Favre) gets you listeners and increases ratings for your show. You must REALLY need those listeners, because your comments on Buzz Williams and Marquette basketball are so far off base it is ridiculous.
Let me ask you this, as a professional, did you do your homework before you did this piece? Did you interview Buzz Williams? How about Vander Blue? Or Jeronne Maymon? Hell, you could have even interviewed Bo Ryan and I am sure he would not say anything along the lines of what you said. You talk about Buzz Williams recruiting "thugs." As in plural, or multiple recruits who are thugs. Which ones? Montralle Clark was a mistake, and he never set foot on the campus because of his mistake that Buzz Williams had NO WAY to see coming. Who else? I didn't think you'd find anybody else. Are you one of those people who thinks that because kids went the junior college routes they are automatically thugs? So Dwight Buycks, who would have been fully qualified had the lowly MPS system not failed him so badly in high school that they did not advise him to take courses that he NEEDED to be eligible for college, is a thug? Really? Have you ever spoken to or interacted with the Marquette basketball players? What is your basis for this statement?
You do realize that the "shambles" that you say Marquette is in is a result of the former coach Tom Crean being unable to balance recruiting classes, so he was left with his entire team graduating all at the same time, right? And that Buzz's recruiting of JUCOs is to fix this problem, balancing the classes so that this type of thing does not happen every four years, right? You also do realize that Buzz Williams got a top 10 recruiting class in the nation in his FIRST YEAR ON THE JOB at Marquette, right? And that, with the addition of Vander Blue and 2 more open scholarships for 2010, he is going to have a SECOND ONE IN A ROW, right? When has Bo Ryan had ANY top 10 recruiting classes in the nation? I'll answer that one for you: NEVER! Tom Crean could NEVER get a good recruiting class two years in a row because the only way he knew how to recruit was when he had playing time to offer. Buzz Williams is building a program that has the potential to compete for Big East and National championships, whereas Bo Ryan will always compete for 2nd or 3rd in the Big Televen, but will NEVER be a threat to win a National championship.
Your baseless comments on Marquette's basketball program are an absolute shame to sports radio. You sound just as bitter about losing an incredibly talented recruit as some of the Badger fans are on their forums. My guess is that is where you did your "research." Really professional stuff there, Mark. You should be really proud of yourself.
Your a 40-something year old man calling 17-22 year old boys that you have never met "thugs." Really good stuff there. Don't take off your black and red sunglasses anytime soon, please. You and all of the people embarrassing themselves like you on this situation are making life for Buzz Williams so much easier when it comes to recruiting the top talent within the state. Now Buzz just has to point to articles and interviews like your ridiculous stuff and say "Hey, if you make ONE LITTLE MISTAKE in your life at Wisconsin, this is how they will treat you." It's a shame, Mark. It really is. You should be embarrassed. You clearly have absolutely NO clue as to what you are talking about.
Glad you gave me some entertainment for the night. Enjoy yourself, and enjoy watching Vander break your heart and tear it up at Marquette.
Sincerely,
Don't waste your time writing emails, just wear a pair of tight pants and head to Victor's. Mark will find you.
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P.S...What about the "thugs" that broke into dorms and stole hundreds of dollars worth of items belonging to other people. Where did they go to school again?
I want to preface this, by saying that I COMPLETELY understand the business model for talk radio, and that the #1 motivation is ratings. With that being said...
Heres the bottom line...As I can remember, alot of the Milwaukee media (especially radio) turned on MU because of 2 big events that happened at almost the same time.
First...when MU decided to leave WISN and put their radio rights up for bid. 540 ESPN (at the time, 1510 WAUK) won the rights, beating out WISN and WSSP. Homer left WISN for WAUK/ESPN, and on the way out, Belling called him a "Marquette Whore" and at that point, it was on like donkey kong. Nobody cared/knew a whole lot about WSSP at the time, as they were in flux as a new radio station.
Second...then came the whole MU/UWM scheduling debate. That was a very ugly time in Milwaukee, and it gave WISN and WSSP a chance to constantly blame MU for everything that is wrong in the world. At the time, Peter Brown (the biggest joke in the history of radio) was on in the afternoon on WSSP, and I would listen once in awhile. He honestly made me so mad once while driving, I had to pull over to try and call in. I had a chance to say about 2 words, before he hung up on me.
I feel that things have somewhat gotten better lately, but MU is an easy target. Everyone knew this Vander Blue thing was going to get ugly...and it has yet to disappoint.
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Does anyone recall Belling calling out Taylor and his buddy as thugs or the like?
Just want to see if there's a bias or if he's an equal opportunity basher.
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What an idiot, he sounds like he knows about the program....
BUT he obviously doesn't
I think he should be shot out of a cannon.
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he often is right-on in his comments, and about as often is dead-wrong. This is obviously the latter. With a 50% average, he's about on a par with most talking heads. He went to a small UW dash school, and most of them consider themselves baaajrs, for whatever reason. He surely shot what little credibility he had in the ass today.
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This guy is still around? What is he, 85 years old now?
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"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job - if MU fires him they risk losing Blue" - I don't recall him saying the bold part.
The exact quote was:
"If Buzz Williams goes 4-12, or 4-16, or whatever it is in the Big East this year, he can at least say 'look, you fire me, Vander Blue is not going to come here, you're going to have transfers go away, and have nothing for the future'".
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This guy is still around? What is he, 85 years old now?
No, he only looks like the crypt keeper.
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I'm surprised he has the guts to bash MU... With Madison being so liberal I have to believe he's now ticked off the majority of college grads in this state, anyone who's not racist, anyone who is not extremely right wing, etc...
We protested his sorry but of my college campus years ago because of his wonderful "wetbacks" comment, maybe some MU students need head his way!
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Forgive my ignorance on this. I spent four years in Milwaukee at Marquette, but have set up shop back in Chicago since. I'm not one of those who feel Chicago is big time and Milwaukee is second class, far from it, I love Milwaukee.
Who is this guy, a sports talk host? If so, is the Vander Blue commitment really sports talk radio fodder in Milwaukee? I understand it's a big deal to us, we're all obviously fans and passionate about Marquette basketball and the program. Is a high school basketball player announcing where he's going to college worth radio time? Maybe some Packer talk? Playoff baseball? Bucks season firing up? Badger football?
I realize the state of Wisconsin doesn't produce a ton of elite high school basketball players, and I obviously understand and appreciate our rivalry with the school west of us, but really...this is worth talking about on radio? Let the kid put on a Marquette uniform first, then you can dissect his decision. Talk about sour grapes, my goodness, let it go.
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Forgive my ignorance on this. I spent four years in Milwaukee at Marquette, but have set up shop back in Chicago since. I'm not one of those who feel Chicago is big time and Milwaukee is second class, far from it, I love Milwaukee.
Who is this guy, a sports talk host? If so, is the Vander Blue commitment really sports talk radio fodder in Milwaukee? I understand it's a big deal to us, we're all obviously fans and passionate about Marquette basketball and the program. Is a high school basketball player announcing where he's going to college worth radio time? Maybe some Packer talk? Playoff baseball? Bucks season firing up? Badger football?
I realize the state of Wisconsin doesn't produce a ton of elite high school basketball players, and I obviously understand and appreciate our rivalry with the school west of us, but really...this is worth talking about on radio? Let the kid put on a Marquette uniform first, then you can dissect his decision. Talk about sour grapes, my goodness, let it go.
He's the Rush Limbaugh of Milwaukee
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He should shut up about MU basketball and stick to what he thinks he knows.
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He's not sportstalk, he's the afternoon political show on WISN. But he likes to talk about everything.
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He's not sportstalk, he's the afternoon political show on WISN. But he likes to talk about everything.
you forgot that he is a ill-informed, mysoginist, racist, homophobe.
He has been one of the 'pot stirrers' in Milwaukee for a long time.
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He's not sportstalk, he's the afternoon political show on WISN. But he likes to talk about everything.
Yikes, that makes it much worse! A political radio show talking about where a teenager makes a decison on where to go to college?? What's on today's show? Evil Marquette runs Ziggy off campus?
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Don't waste your time writing emails, just wear a pair of tight pants and head to Victor's. Mark will find you.
Wow! '02 brings the noise today!
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he often is right-on in his comments, and about as often is dead-wrong. This is obviously the latter. With a 50% average, he's about on a par with most talking heads. He went to a small UW dash school, and most of them consider themselves baaajrs, for whatever reason. He surely shot what little credibility he had in the ass today.
I always want to talk about this issue. First, I was born and raised in Milwaukee and attended and eventaully graduated MU. I will never get this. I do not get how going to UW-Stout makes you a badger. And honeslty I would be pissed if I had gone to UW and had to deal with all these dash students jumping on the Badger mobile. I understand that is the major state school but alot of the dash school's have serious teams. For example Whitewatere football and ever so often UW Green Bay Basketball. I have friends and their parents who get upset at me because I don't cheer for the football team or the basketball team other than the one weekend in December.
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Earth to Mark Belling
Written by: hilltopper91@gmail.com (Kevin Buckley)
Heard on Mark Belling's WISN radio show yesterday: (hattip: ChunkyChip (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15758).)
"Marquette is going to be terrible this year"
"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team"
"Maybe he'll be able to hang onto his job"
"Buzz has been a wrecking crew for that program"
"Marquette appears to be in shambles"
"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job .."
http://www.belling.com/cc-common/podcast.html (http://www.belling.com/cc-common/podcast.html) - Part 2 of Hour 1 on Oct 21.
Uh, Earth to Belling: Yes, MU will have a down year this next season. Yes, we did have a verbal on a recruit that later admitted to criminality and will never wear a Warrior uniform. Yes, a prized Freshman is out for the season, and we have a few other injuries hampering the start of the year.
But please. Buzz might just snare two top 10 recruiting classes in two years, as he's half way there, and Rivals just released their listing, putting MU at 11th (http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1005056) for bringing in Vander Blue.
Suggesting he's close to being fired is "galactically stupid."
http://www.youtube.com/v/4jevG0vhGWU&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x3a3a3a&color2=0x999999&start=50
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/10/earth-to-mark-belling.html
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Wow! '02 brings the noise today!
Belling is a creep, a blowhard, a hypocrite and a sensationalist.
Actually, I should be happy that he doesn't like Buzz, because if he did like Buzz, THAT would make me nervous.
Also, for the record, this has nothing to do with Mark's politics. I just think he's a jerk and a huge Monday morning QB. It's easy to sit in a radio studio and spout off about politicians, basketball coaches and everything under the sun. It's a lot harder to actually be one of those politicians or basketball coaches or whoever his target is.
I definitely think there is a place for well thought out critiques of public topics and public figures (especially those collecting a state paycheck)... I just don't think Mark provides any of that, and I'm disappointed that there are people in the Milwaukee community that can't see though him and/or believe anything he says.
Also, given how controversial he loves to be, I'm surprised he doesn't rip UW more. Certainly there are more UW fans in the area that would get pissed and call in (a big part of the show).
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Yikes, that makes it much worse! A political radio show talking about where a teenager makes a decison on where to go to college??
Its an opinion show...why is it ok for you to talk about where a teenager goes to college?
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Its an opinion show...why is it ok for you to talk about where a teenager goes to college?
Incorrect, read it again. It was mentioned it was a political show. Is Vander Blue running for office? I must have missed that. This is a message board, my opinion (which you seem to have an issue with in different threads) is fine and valid.
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I definitely think there is a place for well thought out critiques of public topics and public figures (especially those collecting a state paycheck)... I just don't think Mark provides any of that, and I'm disappointed that there are people in the Milwaukee community that can't see though him and/or believe anything he says.
Also, given how controversial he loves to be, I'm surprised he doesn't rip UW more. Certainly there are more UW fans in the area that would get pissed and call in (a big part of the show).
So you have mode up your mind that his opinions are automatically wrong because he is the one espousing them. That's reasonable.
As to the UW comments...the selective listening skills of some on this board are truly off the charts.
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Incorrect, read it again. It was mentioned it was a political show. Is Vander Blue running for office?
Saying it is a political show was the inaccuracy. It is a topical opinion show covering any and all topics as was stated in this thread multiple times. Is politics a significant portion of the discussion? Of course, but at no point has that show been limited to politics, nor from my perspective was there ever an intention to do so.
This is a message board, my opinion (which you seem to have an issue with in different threads) is fine and valid.
So is the opinion of the host of a show that is entirely structured around said host expressing his opinion.
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Saying it is a political show was the inaccuracy. It is a topical opinion show covering any and all topics as was stated in this thread multiple times. Is politics a significant portion of the discussion? Of course, but at no point has that show been limited to politics, nor from my perspective was there ever an intention to do so.
So is the opinion of the host of a show that is entirely structured around said host expressing his opinion.
When it started, it was a political show, much in the vein of Sykes or Wagner. That it has morphed into an opinion show has more to do with Belling's complete inability to stay on topic for three hours than anything else.
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I heard it too, and while I agree it was a bit over the top, and a bit misinformed as to Buzz's 'status.' let's take a look at what he actually said...
"Marquette is going to be terrible this year" - Terrible may be a bit strong, but relative to the rest of the conference, may well be true.
"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team, [guys are hurt]" - Imploding? No probably not, but does anyone think it was not a very tumultuous off-season?
"Maybe he'll be able to hang onto his job" - Stupid comment.
"Buzz has been a wrecking crew for that program" - Made entirely in reference to the recruiting...specifically taking players we aren't used to around here. I disagree with the comment, but not much different than more than a few of the concerns that have been voiced on this board relative to JUCO's etc.
"Marquette appears to be in shambles" - A couple pf weeks ago, didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit?
"Vander Blue could save Buzz's job - if MU fires him they risk losing Blue" - I don't recall him saying the bold part.
Belling also claimed to "break" the true story of Blue's defection to Marquette - Buzz pressured Maymon to pressue Blue to dump Madison and come to Marquette. - he didn't claim to break anything, he simply said the lazy media in this town didn't care to look into or report what actually happened. He did. Does anyone here doubt that Maymon played an extremely significant role in this? For the record, Belling went on to say that he did not see anything shady or unethical about it.
You ask the question "didn't we all sort of feel this way (that Marquette appears to be in shambles) a couple of weeks ago?" NO "we all" didn't.
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As I stated point blank at the beginning, I have no idea who this guy is or what show he runs. I respect BMA's word when he said it was a political show.
It's fine for an "opinion" host to give his opinion on things. It's his right, and I won't argue with that. I can and will certainly argue that discussing it is small-minded. If it is a news talk/political show, and 3 days after the fact, it's still news worthy, is quite frankly idiotic. I don't see how defending someone on giving their opinion is worthy of being argumentative.
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Its an opinion show...why is it ok for you to talk about where a teenager goes to college?
Looks like we hit a sore spot for your love of Mark. Mark is entitled to his opinion; however, one would hope he would take his position and responsibilities more serious. Conversation and debate are needed, but when one pretends to be factual and serious, and then makes comments out of hate and ignorance it becomes an issue. At least Colbert and Stewart throw far left wing ideas on Comedy Central. Doesn't say much for the stations that carry Mark. I would liken them to Comedy Central as far as integrity goes.
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So you have mode up your mind that his opinions are automatically wrong because he is the one espousing them. That's reasonable.
As to the UW comments...the selective listening skills of some on this board are truly off the charts.
Well, let me rephrase.
I've listened to Mark's show on several occasions, and honestly, I do so with an open mind.
However, I have heard him go off on several topics regarding local politics and in this case MU basketball where he clearly hasn't researched the topic thoroughly and is just ranting, rather than providing an educated viewpoint.
I'm sure Mark is correct on some opinions. However, he has demonstrated (at least to me) that he's willing to spout off on any topic, whether he's an expert in the area or not, which really makes me doubt his credibility in all areas. (how am I supposed to know when he's really knowledgeable or he's just ranting).
Like I said, I think there is a place for a strong opinion show with educated viewpoints, I just don't think he's as educated on every topic as he pretends to be.
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If it is a news talk/political show, and 3 days after the fact, it's still news worthy, is quite frankly idiotic.
Bringing it up was a direct response to an isiotic Mike Hunt column that ran in the paper yesterday. That is why it was discussed 3 days later, and frankly talking about how ridiculously stupid the column is was the major point he was making.
I just continue to be amazed at what hairy wet cats so many people around here turn into when someone dare say something negative about Marquette. I tend to be protective as well, but let's get real...Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.
If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.
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As has been said, Belling is a pot-stirrer. Like most talk-radio blowhards, he doesn't truly believe the majority of it, but he's getting paid a lot of money to say what he says. And believe me, there are morons out there that eat it up like candy.
While MU basketball has nothing to do with the usual political nature of his show, face it -- there are a lot of MU haters out there and Belling is just trying to get them to tune in (more). Does Belling honestly believe that MU is imploding and Buzz is an incompetent head coach? Absolutely not. But will people listen if he says these things? Absolutely.
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As I stated point blank at the beginning, I have no idea who this guy is or what show he runs. I respect BMA's word when he said it was a political show.
It's fine for an "opinion" host to give his opinion on things. It's his right, and I won't argue with that. I can and will certainly argue that discussing it is small-minded. If it is a news talk/political show, and 3 days after the fact, it's still news worthy, is quite frankly idiotic. I don't see how defending someone on giving their opinion is worthy of being argumentative.
It did start off as a political show; however, he wasn't getting the ratings he needed to live the lifestyle he wanted to, so he decided to go with the shock approach. It's put $$$ in his pocket, and anyone who thinks that isn't Marks #1 goal is kidding themselves. Some of the far right/far left hosts walk-the-walk...Mark doesn't even do that.
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"Marquette, the Evil Empire to the East", man I kind of like the ring of it
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Bringing it up was a direct response to an isiotic Mike Hunt column that ran in the paper yesterday. That is why it was discussed 3 days later, and frankly talking about how ridiculously stupid the column is was the major point he was making.
I just continue to be amazed at what hairy wet cats so many people around here turn into when someone dare say something negative about Marquette. I tend to be protective as well, but let's get real...Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.
If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.
Did you attend MU? I always wonder if it's possible to get a degree from a Jesuit school and then support someone like Mark?
On a side note...nice language. Clearly shows you have some real class.
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However, I have heard him go off on several topics regarding local politics and in this case MU basketball where he clearly hasn't researched the topic thoroughly and is just ranting, rather than providing an educated viewpoint...(how am I supposed to know when he's really knowledgeable or he's just ranting).
If you don't see the conflict between those two comments, there is not much I can do to help you. You clearly feel qualified to know on some occasions. A bit of a cop out on your part, no?
I guess the lesson would be to make up your own mind. If he's right, he's right, if he's wrong he's wrong. What's hard about that? If that doesn't get it done for you, there are many buttons on your radio and you are free to use them. Everyone is.
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"The program is imploding under Williams, they are recruiting thugs and guys are quitting the team, [guys are hurt]" - Imploding? No probably not, but does anyone think it was not a very tumultuous off-season?
Probably not? Probably not? What hints of imminent implosion did you see this off-season? The transfer of a kid who was unlikely to play? The arrest of a kid who never set foot on campus and now never will? These are things that could possibly cause an entire program to implode?
No, I do not think it was a "very tumultuous" off-season. Very tumultuous is what happened at Indiana last year. Very tumultuos is what is happening at USC this year. Fact is, MU had a far more tumultuous offseason last year than this year. Lost the head coach and most of the assistants. Lost two players to transfer, one of whom left just before school began. Lost two key recruits.
And yet somehow the program didn't implode.
"Marquette appears to be in shambles" - A couple pf weeks ago, didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit?
No. I'd suggest the great majority of us - at least those not prone to vast hyperbole and overreaction - did not believe Marquette was in shambles two weeks ago. It's laughbale to think that an injury to a freshman guard, the transfer of a kid who wasn't going to play and the arrest of a kid who wasn't even going to be on campus for a year would bring about the ruination of Marquette basketball.
Belling also claimed to "break" the true story of Blue's defection to Marquette - Buzz pressured Maymon to pressue Blue to dump Madison and come to Marquette. - he didn't claim to break anything, he simply said the lazy media in this town didn't care to look into or report what actually happened. He did. Does anyone here doubt that Maymon played an extremely significant role in this? For the record, Belling went on to say that he did not see anything shady or unethical about it.
Actually, nearly every media outlet that reported on the verbal made some reference to Blue's close relationship with Maymon and how it played in his decision. What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress.
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Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.
If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.
I started the thread becasue I thought Belling's comments were hilarious and wildly misinformed. Although my summary may have been "incomplete", I don't think I misrepresented what was said.
The only downside is that Belling has his loyal flock who will take this junk as gospel.
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Did you attend MU? I always wonder if it's possible to get a degree from a Jesuit school and then support someone like Mark?
On a side note...nice language. Clearly shows you have some real class.
Well, one of seems to have an open mind, and one of us obviously doesn't (I'll let you figure out which is which).
It is not an issue of supporting Mark Belling (or Andy Katz, or Bill Michaels....), it is an issue of why people get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. I can assure you you, me, and everyone that has commented in this thread has expressed many incorrect opinions along the line, just as we have listened to incorrect opinions. I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).
You on the other hand, in an extremely tolerant and open minded way, question whether or not I went to MU, and indicate I have no class because I dare stand up for the right and ability of someone you disagree with or don't like to express an opinion. You choose to focus on whom I am defending as opposed to what I am defending. But you are the one who displays those Jesuit values. Whatever.
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If you don't see the conflict between those two comments, there is not much I can do to help you. You clearly feel qualified to know on some occasions. A bit of a cop out on your part, no?
I guess the lesson would be to make up your own mind. If he's right, he's right, if he's wrong he's wrong. What's hard about that? If that doesn't get it done for you, there are many buttons on your radio and you are free to use them. Everyone is.
There's no conflict in 2002's comments. He's simply saying that on subjects where he (2002) knows the score Belling has been uninformed. This (logically) makes 2002 skeptical of Belling on all subjects.
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If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.
Because the idiots have the platform. They've got the wide audience. They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.
Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct". That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.
If you can't understand that, there's not much anyone can do to explain it to you. It's part of being a fan, either you get it or you don't.
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I started the thread becasue I thought Belling's comments were hilarious and wildly misinformed. Although my summary may have been "incomplete", I don't think I misrepresented what was said.
I don't disagree with you. I was talking more in a general sense as to what typically takes place on this board when some one criticizes MU. I think your summary was reasonable, and you also posted the link so people could listen if they so chose.
The one comment that was left out that I think is pertinent was..."Maybe he is building something for the future with his recruiting."
Much of the defense or stated reasons why Buzz's job is not in jeopardy is two consecutive Top 10 recruiting classes. That was acknowledged.
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Because the idiots have the platform. They've got the wide audience. They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.
Actually there is a whole lot MU can do about it...continue to recruit well, go out and win a bunch of games, and graduate players. You can't fix the criminally dumb, but anyone with any sort of ability to reason can listen to dumb comments, compare it to actual results and figure out what is really going on. The fact is, the possibility exists that we will be talking about an MU coach not named Buzz Williams in a couple of years. I will be shocked if that is the case based on what I have seen thus far, and I stated I believe the comments were largely off-base, but it is obviously possible.
Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct". That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.
Just, as this thread demonstrates, many look at it and say "Oh Belling said it, it must not be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be incorrect".
Each one is as bad as the other.
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If you don't see the conflict between those two comments, there is not much I can do to help you. You clearly feel qualified to know on some occasions. A bit of a cop out on your part, no?
Not a cop out. The guy is in the local media and pretends to be knowledgeable/factual about EVERYTHING when in reality he is clearly uneducated on some topics, but he'll never admit that. The problem I have is not that I disagree with him some of the time, it's that he's just not knowledgeable on a lot of topics he covers, and he's pretending like he is. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about local politics. But, I can't really trust Mark's opinion (even if I agree) because he's shown in the past that he's willing to spout off when he really doesn't know what he's talking about.
I guess the lesson would be to make up your own mind. If he's right, he's right, if he's wrong he's wrong. SEE ABOVEWhat's hard about that? If that doesn't get it done for you, there are many buttons on your radio and you are free to use them. Everyone is.
Agree. I don't listen to him often, and it's a free market, so if enough people tune out, he's show will be gone. If people listen to the show for entertainment purposes, then hey, go for it. But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.
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Great email Wadesworld.....probably won't get a response from the chicken S*** but if you do, please post it.
Belling should change his opening phrase of "Standing up for Milwaukee.....This is the Mark Belling Late Afternoon Show" He clearly is not standing up for Milwaukee but protecting and defending Madison.
I'm fine with it. Let people talk and when we go on a tear in the next few years see who turns into supporters. GO MU!
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But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.
On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.
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But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.
On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.
Wait a minute here, Colbert isn't a Republican?!?
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But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.
On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.
Agree, and that's why I'm not saying this isn't about politics, it's about stupidity and lack of knowledge. Mark has both covered on this one.
I also think Belling is a little worse because he has what is really an "entertainment" show on NEWS-TALK 1130, which is really misleading for some stupid people. IT'S NOT NEWS.
The other shows are at least a little more honest about what they are (entertainment) and are on "comedy central".
Keither oberman on the other hand is on a news station and is a douche.
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Because the idiots have the platform. They've got the wide audience. They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.
Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct". That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.
If you can't understand that, there's not much anyone can do to explain it to you. It's part of being a fan, either you get it or you don't.
+1
That's exactly why I wanted to respond with a CS post. At least there this discussion has a higher visibility.
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You know baseball season is over and basketball season has begun when I am agreeing with wadesworld.
Great email wadesworld. You probably won't get a response but for sure post it if you do.
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But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.
On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.
Or rush or anyone of Fox.
I noticed you didn't respond to Pakuni who did the best job of responding to your innitial comments on the peice.
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We really need the season to start so we can talk about real issues of importance rather than getting all hot-and-bothered by what someone who admits a lack of knowledge of college hoops says.
Everyone is getting a little squirrelly and Game 1 can't get here fast enough.
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I noticed you didn't respond to Pakuni who did the best job of responding to your innitial comments on the peice.
No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season. Great. No problem.
He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html
Finally he said, "What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."
Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.
Any other questions?
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This was in response to Hunt's silly column yesterday. Hunt is quite 60's liberal and Belling can't stand him or the MJS.
And as someone mentioned he has been a little anti -Marquette since they left WISN.
His knowledge of college sports - especially here- is very limited. He seemed to be talking out of his arse yesterday.
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No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season. Great. No problem.
He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html
Finally he said, "What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."
Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.
Any other questions?
Yes one more. How does it feel to be so inlove with some radio blowhard that you can't admit he's talking out of his ass when he clearly is?
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Yes one more. How does it feel to be so inlove with some radio blowhard that you can't admit he's talking out of his ass when he clearly is?
I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).
Anything else?
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No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season. Great. No problem.
OK, I'll be clear.
I do not think it was a "tumultuous" offseason.
One kid who wasn't going to play transferred.
A freshman whose impact was yet to be seen got hurt.
A kid who hadn't even signed his letter of intent, must less set foot on campus, got arrested.
How is this so tumultuous? Or, better phrased, more tumultuous than what occurs at programs across the country every year. Dozens of head and assistant coaches move elsewhere every year. Dozens of players transfer. Dozens of players get hurt. Sometimes actual players - as opposed to just recruits, but recruits also - get arrested (see: Kansas, Louisville).
This is not tumult, much less extreme tumult.
For better or worse, this is routine stuff in major college basketball.
If this is tumultuous, then MU has had many, many tumultuous offseasons. We've seen recruits arrested (Damian Saunders), players get hurt (Fulce, Otule just last year) and players transfer (too many to list).
He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html
Perhaps you and I have very different ideas of what it means to be "in shambles."
I do find it interesting, however, that you chose to cite one particuar opinion piece on a different site as evidence to support your claims "we all" felt this way, then conveniently ignored the reaction to that piece on this site and elsewhere. That reaction included:
"Wow. I have read some good stuff on CS before...unfortunately this isn't one of them."
"I have to say that this article is the sort of whiny crap I expect on these forums, but not Cracked Sidewalks. I find it to be embarassing and a complete lack of judgement from the editors at CS to publish something like this."
" I lost alot of respect for the editors over at cracked sidewalks with this article. "
"I think the article was crap too. I agree with the othe rposter...simply a whiny crying little tantrum."
Apparently, not everyone "sorta" thought the program was in shambles.
In fact, not even the piece's author thought that. In defending the piece on this site, he said:
"Its been tough sledding for the good guys of late."
Tough sledding. Maybe it has been tough sledding. But shambles? Not even close.
Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.
Oh boy ... now who's playing semantics? (and poorly, might I add)
Contrary to your claim, "pressure" and "convince" are not interchangeable terms. By its very definition, the term pressure implies the application of force, be it physical or mental. There is not such connotation with the word convince. And you very well Belling chose the word "pressure" for that reason. It would be exceptionally naive to think that after a lengthy diatribe against MU and Buzz Williams, Belling's choice of the word "pressure" was merely a benign coincidence.
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Oh boy ... now who's playing semantics? (and poorly, might I add)
Contrary to your claim, "pressure" and "convince" are not interchangeable terms. By its very definition, the term pressure implies the application of force, be it physical or mental. There is not such connotation with the word convince. And you very well Belling chose the word "pressure" for that reason. It would be exceptionally naive to think that after a lengthy diatribe against MU and Buzz Williams, Belling's choice of the word "pressure" was merely a benign coincidence.
Good Lord! I'll ask again, do you think Maymon applied 'pressure' on Blue to attend MU? If not, how else did he convince him to do so, telepathy?
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what could he have said Navin?
"I won't be your friend if you don't come to MU"
I think the word pressure infers some sort of threat.
convincing someone does not.
just my 2c.
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what could he have said Navin?
"I won't be your friend if you don't come to MU"
I think the word pressure infers some sort of threat.
convincing someone does not.
just my 2c.
I'm just saying he is getting hung up on the word, which is the foundation of his argument and frankly isn't important. Before Belling's comments or this thread existed, had I or anyone else posted, "t looks like Maymon 'pressured' Blue to come to MU," would anyone have even thought twice about it, let alone criticized it? Of course not. The reactions would have been somewhere along the lines of. "Good job Jeronne." "Assist to Maymon." Etc.
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You have to forgive Navin, he has a huge man-crush on Mark Belling.
He would love to be the meat in a Mark Belling / Rush Limbaugh sandwich. :-*
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Generally I agree with Belling, but I listened to his rant against Buzz, and laughed.
It was uninformed to say the least. He has his mind made up about anything MU, and no logic will change that. It started with Fr. DiUlio closing Wisconsin Ave. and has never ended.
Over the years Belling has become a charicature but overall value as a curmudgeon still works. He keeps bureaucrats and politicians honest.
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I'm just saying he is getting hung up on the word, which is the foundation of his argument and frankly isn't important. Before Belling's comments or this thread existed, had I or anyone else posted, "t looks like Maymon 'pressured' Blue to come to MU," would anyone have even thought twice about it, let alone criticized it? Of course not. The reactions would have been somewhere along the lines of. "Good job Jeronne." "Assist to Maymon." Etc.
For a second time ... the word pressure, by definition and certainly by connotation, implies use of physical or mental force and coercin.
So, understanding what the word means, I would have to say "No, Jeronne Maymon did not pressue Vander Blue into attending Marquette University."
Did he persuade him? Encourage him? Convince him? Coax him?
I'm sure he did all of the above.
But unlike "pressure" none of those words denote force or carry negative connotations.
And, for a second time, you're being might naive and generous if you believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence.
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Well, one of seems to have an open mind, and one of us obviously doesn't (I'll let you figure out which is which).
It is not an issue of supporting Mark Belling (or Andy Katz, or Bill Michaels....), it is an issue of why people get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. I can assure you you, me, and everyone that has commented in this thread has expressed many incorrect opinions along the line, just as we have listened to incorrect opinions. I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).
You on the other hand, in an extremely tolerant and open minded way, question whether or not I went to MU, and indicate I have no class because I dare stand up for the right and ability of someone you disagree with or don't like to express an opinion. You choose to focus on whom I am defending as opposed to what I am defending. But you are the one who displays those Jesuit values. Whatever.
I'm not Jesuit...just posed a question. I do not have an open mind to Mark. I see no reason to listen to a racists.
The reason I say you have no class is because the word you referred to me and others as. Typically when one has to refer to that type of tactic in a discussion it's a give away that they are on the defensive. My apologies for not happily accepting your classless choice of words. I found it ironic that you reverted to the same type of name calling that got Mark in trouble when he busted out the wetback comment. For someone who doesn't buy much of what he says, you sure act in a similar matter. Freedom of speech has little to do with those who choose to lie, and Mark is a liar.
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And, for a second time, you're being might naive and generous if you believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence.
Thank you for this, because it helps me make/reinforce a couple different points...
Mark Belling never used the word pressure in describing what happened. So much for that. What he did say was...
"Buzz Williams asked Jeronne Maymon to work as hard as he can on his HS temmate, Vander Blue, to get him to change his mind and come to Marquette."
"This was Jerone Maymon, working, working, working his long-time HS temmate, Vander Blue, saying, "Don't go to the Badgers. Come here to Marquette, we're building something. Buzz Williams is progressive. Bo Ryan is a stone age old coach..."
"This was the Marquette Coach going through one of his current players, getting Vander Blue to back out of his commitment to UW."
Oops!
So not only did Mark Belling not imply any sort of force by using the word 'pressure', as you so naively suggested, but you in fact inferred as much based entirely on an inaccurate and incomplete description of what was said. You obviously felt qualified to comment on what he said, despite not actually listening to what he said. Which MSM outlet do you work for?
Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.
Again. Thanks for the assist on this one.
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Just, as this thread demonstrates, many look at it and say "Oh Belling said it, it must not be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be incorrect".
Each one is as bad as the other.
You couldn't be more wrong. The way I, and many people look at it, is Belling said it so it means nothing because he is a proven liar and has no credibility among educated people.
The problem is there are also many people who are fooled by the way he lies and twists stories, just as he did with his rant on MU. MU can continue to recruit and win; however, people like Belling will continue to lie about anything that can possible be twisted to be subjective.
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You couldn't be more wrong. The way I, and many people look at it, is Belling said it so it means nothing because he is a proven liar and has no credibility among educated people.
Do I really need to say anything, or is the irony of this comment as blatantly obvious to everyone else as it is to me?
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Freedom of speech has little to do with those who choose to lie, and Mark is a liar.
Are you serious? At least you're not attempting to espouse laughably profound and broad-sweeping philosophical opinions based on a trivial argument over a talk-radio host.
I didn't know there were such imposing limits on who got freedom of speech! That doesn't sound much like it's free at all!
WHAT A RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION.
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Generally I agree with Belling, but I listened to his rant against Buzz, and laughed.
It was uninformed to say the least. He has his mind made up about anything MU, and no logic will change that. It started with Fr. DiUlio closing Wisconsin Ave. and has never ended.
This is a VERY telling sentence.
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He's the Rush Limbaugh of Milwaukee
Hardly...he's more like the Ed Schultz of Milwaukee
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my few sentences to Mark
"It's funny, when two "thugs" on the Wisconsin basketball team a few weeks ago stole iPods and hundreds of dollars from other students dorm rooms, I don't recall you saying a word about the THUGS that Bo Ryan has recruited. I wonder why..
The simple fact of the matter is that Buzz Williams exemplifies the American dream. He went from rags to riches, picked himself up by his bootstraps and became a self made man through a VERY LONG process. He's a believer in a higher authority, he demands accountability, he's a strong family man. Isn't this what conservative principles are all about? He's a doer, the very thing that you espouse people should be.
Has he taken a chance on some recruits? Yes, to some extent, but all within the rules of the NCAA. This year MU will be young, but talented. They will likely struggle to be .500 in the conference, but the outlook is bright.
Belling, the second you open up your mouth about sports, you instantly become the dumbest man in the world in front of a microphone. You've done this for years and immediately saps any credibility you may actually have on other topics. Stick to blasting Doyle and the People's Republic of Wisconsin where at least some of your points are salient, but stay out of sports because you have shown over 20 years to be one of the most inarticulate voices on a subject anyone could hope to find."
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my few sentences to Mark
"It's funny, when two "thugs" on the Wisconsin basketball team a few weeks ago stole iPods and hundreds of dollars from other students dorm rooms, I don't recall you saying a word about the THUGS that Bo Ryan has recruited. I wonder why..
The simple fact of the matter is that Buzz Williams exemplifies the American dream. He went from rags to riches, picked himself up by his bootstraps and became a self made man through a VERY LONG process. He's a believer in a higher authority, he demands accountability, he's a strong family man. Isn't this what conservative principles are all about? He's a doer, the very thing that you espouse people should be.
Has he taken a chance on some recruits? Yes, to some extent, but all within the rules of the NCAA. This year MU will be young, but talented. They will likely struggle to be .500 in the conference, but the outlook is bright.
Belling, the second you open up your mouth about sports, you instantly become the dumbest man in the world in front of a microphone. You've done this for years and immediately saps any credibility you may actually have on other topics. Stick to blasting Doyle and the People's Republic of Wisconsin where at least some of your points are salient, but stay out of sports because you have shown over 20 years to be one of the most inarticulate voices on a subject anyone could hope to find."
Wow I think I just found my divorce lawyer. Nicely said.
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I find this thread funny because half way through I started reading Navin's posts with Belling's voice inflection in my head. I think they may be one in the same. Try it for your own amusement it's fun!
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When he first came to town, Belling was entertaining and somewhat refreshing. I don't agree with his politics all of the time, but I listened to his show.
I now live in Indiana, so I didn't hear this first hand, but my wife has a family member who is involved in local Milwaukee politics. About seven years ago, he went on a rant about him that included some very personal attacks and was filled with misinformation. My wife's relative called in to address some of Belling's attacks, and even talked with the call screener, but Belling wouldn't put him on even though he had plenty of time to do so. He decided to go on ranting for another five minutes.
This taught me one thing. Mark Belling is a turd. He cares more about ratings and wild exaggeration than he does the truth. People need to make sure to keep that in mind as they listen to him.
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Thank you for this, because it helps me make/reinforce a couple different points...
Mark Belling never used the word pressure in describing what happened. So much for that. What he did say was...
"Buzz Williams asked Jeronne Maymon to work as hard as he can on his HS temmate, Vander Blue, to get him to change his mind and come to Marquette."
"This was Jerone Maymon, working, working, working his long-time HS temmate, Vander Blue, saying, "Don't go to the Badgers. Come here to Marquette, we're building something. Buzz Williams is progressive. Bo Ryan is a stone age old coach..."
"This was the Marquette Coach going through one of his current players, getting Vander Blue to back out of his commitment to UW."
Oops!
So not only did Mark Belling not imply any sort of force by using the word 'pressure', as you so naively suggested, but you in fact inferred as much based entirely on an inaccurate and incomplete description of what was said. You obviously felt qualified to comment on what he said, despite not actually listening to what he said. Which MSM outlet do you work for?
Again. Thanks for the assist on this one.
So wait ... you respond to a detailed account of what Belling said that quotes him as using the word "pressure," never contradicting it. You later repeat that the term was used. You defend the use of the word. You indicate that you yourself believe there was pressure and scoff at the notion that Blue was not pressured.
And now you come back and say Belling never used the word and that I'm naive for having suggested it. I repeat ... that I suggested it? Not only did I not suggest it, I responed to your posts which not only implied confirmation, but agreed with it.
Love the MSM swipe.
Located on Page 1 of the Dopey Conservative Playbook*: When in doubt, blame the media.
Man, are you on a roll today.
* = not to be confused with the Intelligent Conservative Playbook which, unfortuantely, has gathered nothing but dust for the past decade.
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And now you come back and say Belling never used the word and that I'm naive for having suggested it. I repeat ... that I suggested it? Not only did I not suggest it, I responed to your posts which not only implied confirmation, but agreed with it.
Sorry to break it to you Sources, but the first time the word pressure was referenced (beyond the initial post/summary) was when you said...
"What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."
From there, yes I did defend the use of the word, because unlike you, who are not naive and generous enough to believe Belling's choice of the word "pressure" instead of something like "persuade" was merely benign coincidence, I see no problem with that word being used to describe what happened. Again, you obviously know what you are talking about, and understand the sinister and malicious motives he had in using the word that he didn't use (perhaps it actually was benign coincidence). Based on the person saying it, you had already decided that he was wrong or had some sort of axe to grind.
If you can show me where I repeated that the term 'pressure' was used, I'd love to see it. I said that it is what took place, and that was an accurate and perfectly fine description. I didn't get hung up on a single word, or look for some motivation for using a particular word because it was the basis for my entire argument.
The larger point you demonstrated very well was the way people go off on someone's opinion based on who they are and and incomplete and inaccurate summary that is provided.
As for the MSM swipe, see the comment immediately above. Those Rush Limbaugh slavery comments ring a bell? I realize the situations are very different as in that case, people repeated comments someone never made, as fact, along with the deeper beliefs and motivations of that person.
As to the Conservative playbook, not sure what I am blaming the MSM for in this case, but you obviously have me accurately pegged as a 'dopey conservative,' so I'm sure you're right. That's exactly what I'm doing....Blaming the MSM for ...you...being...wrong....Yeah.
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Located on Page 1 of the Dopey Conservative Playbook*: When in doubt, blame the media.
BTW, looks like that book may have fallen into the wrong hands recently, as at 1600 Pennsylvania, Fox News is a bigger enemy than the Taliban these days.
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Chicos note was the best one. Perfect and to the point. I do think Belling probably has some well-heeled contacts among the MU faithful and his use of the term "thugs" was very unfortunate and more than likely not what his acquaintances told him. Interesting direction recruiting, wise? I'd say so. Thugs? I don't think so.
By the way, Belling's grilling of Crean over the Gold fiasco was an all time classic. It's also when I first figured out (later confirmed) that it was TC's idea the entire time.
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You know baseball season is over and basketball season has begun when I am agreeing with wadesworld.
Great email wadesworld. You probably won't get a response but for sure post it if you do.
Hah +1 about the first part.
Here was his response. It is very well thought out and is a response to about 4 sentences of my entire email:
The comment on "thugs" is based on Monterale Clark and the fact that Williams is dealing with a "junior college" in Texas in which all of the students mysteriously are on the basketball team. I'm told by a top local AAU official that most schools won't touch these players. And no, I don't apologize for focusing on the fact Marquette recruited a known delinquent kicked out of three Milwaukee high schools and now facing rape charges.
Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this) It's hard to win if you only get choir boys. But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.
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Are you serious? At least you're not attempting to espouse laughably profound and broad-sweeping philosophical opinions based on a trivial argument over a talk-radio host.
I didn't know there were such imposing limits on who got freedom of speech! That doesn't sound much like it's free at all!
WHAT A RIDICULOUS PROPOSITION.
No one is imposing limits. The concept is that, for some reason, a few on this board seem to think it's fine to toss around dangerous opinions based on lies and hide behind freedom of speech. The two have nothing in common. To me, Mark slandered MU with his comments that were knowingly untruthful.
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Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this) It's hard to win if you only get choir boys. But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.
Love it. The fact that Mark prefers TC to Buzz makes me think MU should add a few years to Buzz's contract ;D
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No one is imposing limits. The concept is that, for some reason, a few on this board seem to think it's fine to toss around dangerous opinions based on lies and hide behind freedom of speech. The two have nothing in common. To me, Mark slandered MU with his comments that were knowingly untruthful.
AND in the free marketplace of ideas (which only functions when freedom of speech exists) the competition of ideas (dialogue and discussion) should marginalize lies and stupidity. This clearly happens (as evidenced by this board's ridicule of Belling), and it shouldn't be a big deal. The response shouldn't be to criticize that certain people claim to have or are excused by free speech. What opinions are "dangerous?" That concept ONLY serves to censor opinions people don't agree with. I don't know that anything I've heard from him was a lie as much as a slanted understanding and retelling of the facts. Everyone agrees he's out of line, and the answer isn't to say he shouldn't have free speech.
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Wow..
My first reply in this thread was that he sounds incredibly idiotic.
3.5 pages of replies later... well.. sounds like we're all giving him exactly what he wants - attention. Maybe he's the genius after all. :-\
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Not really.
We're just passionate about Marquette basketball. ;)
Luckily for me, I don't get to hear his rants in CA. :)
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3.5 pages of replies later... well.. sounds like we're all giving him exactly what he wants - attention. Maybe he's the genius after all. :-\
He's no balloon boy. ;D Thank goodness that story has died off around here (CO) the last couple days.
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Here was his response. It is very well thought out and is a response to about 4 sentences of my entire email:
The comment on "thugs" is based on Monterale Clark and the fact that Williams is dealing with a "junior college" in Texas in which all of the students mysteriously are on the basketball team. I'm told by a top local AAU official that most schools won't touch these players. And no, I don't apologize for focusing on the fact Marquette recruited a known delinquent kicked out of three Milwaukee high schools and now facing rape charges.
Lots of colleges recruit these types of players. (UW football team is notorious for this) It's hard to win if you only get choir boys. But to pretend Williams isn't lowering Marquette's standards is to deny reality.
That's quite a roster -- 3700 players! Or maybe he's just talking about the men's team, so there's fewer than 1400 on the team. They must have a pretty big bench.
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That's quite a roster -- 3700 players! Or maybe he's just talking about the men's team, so there's fewer than 1400 on the team. They must have a pretty big bench.
Is he referring to the high school Cadougan went?
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Is he referring to the high school Cadougan went?
I thought he was talking about Clark's school -- Hill College in Hillsboro.