Belling Blasts Buzz

[ChuckyChip]

Whether it is Andy Katz, Mark Belling, Bill Michaels or Digger Phelps, you can count on dozens of comments here about how stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch that individual is, often times based entirely on an incomplete summary of the comments someone posts here.

If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.

I started the thread becasue I thought Belling's comments were hilarious and wildly misinformed.  Although my summary may have been "incomplete", I don't think I misrepresented what was said.

The only downside is that Belling has his loyal flock who will take this junk as gospel.

[NavinRJohnson]

Did you attend MU?  I always wonder if it's possible to get a degree from a Jesuit school and then support someone like Mark?

On a side note...nice language.  Clearly shows you have some real class.

Well, one of seems to have an open mind, and one of us obviously doesn't (I'll let you figure out which is which).

It is not an issue of supporting Mark Belling (or Andy Katz, or Bill Michaels....), it is an issue of why people get so bent out of shape about stuff like this. I can assure you you, me, and everyone that has commented in this thread has expressed many incorrect opinions along the line, just as we have listened to incorrect opinions. I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).

You on the other hand, in an extremely tolerant and open minded way, question whether or not I went to MU, and indicate I have no class because I dare stand up for the right and ability of someone you disagree with or don't like to express an opinion. You choose to focus on whom I am defending as opposed to what I am defending. But you are the one who displays those Jesuit values. Whatever.

[Lennys Tap]

If you don't see the conflict between those two comments, there is not much I can do to help you. You clearly feel qualified to know on some occasions. A bit of a cop out on your part, no?

I guess the lesson would be to make up your own mind. If he's right, he's right, if he's wrong he's wrong. What's hard about that? If that doesn't get it done for you, there are many buttons on your radio and you are free to use them. Everyone is.

There's no conflict in 2002's comments. He's simply saying that on subjects where he (2002) knows the score Belling has been uninformed. This (logically) makes 2002 skeptical of Belling on all subjects.

[bma725]

If these guys are so stupid, mis-informed, biased, egotistical, or out of touch, why does anybody care? Why do those opinions matter.

Because the idiots have the platform.  They've got the wide audience.  They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.

Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct".  That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.

If you can't understand that, there's not much anyone can do to explain it to you.  It's part of being a fan, either you get it or you don't.

[NavinRJohnson]

I started the thread becasue I thought Belling's comments were hilarious and wildly misinformed.  Although my summary may have been "incomplete", I don't think I misrepresented what was said.

I don't disagree with you. I was talking more in a general sense as to what typically takes place on this board when some one criticizes MU. I think your summary was reasonable, and you also posted the link so people could  listen if they so chose.

The one comment that was left out that I think is pertinent was..."Maybe he is building something for the future with his recruiting."

Much of the defense or stated reasons why Buzz's job is not in jeopardy is two consecutive Top 10 recruiting classes. That was acknowledged.

[NavinRJohnson]

Because the idiots have the platform.  They've got the wide audience.  They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.

Actually there is a whole lot MU can do about it...continue to recruit well, go out and win a bunch of games, and graduate players. You can't fix the criminally dumb, but anyone with any sort of ability to reason can listen to dumb comments, compare it to actual results and figure out what is really going on. The fact is, the possibility exists that we will be talking about an MU coach not named Buzz Williams in a couple of years. I will be shocked if that is the case based on what I have seen thus far, and I stated I believe the comments were largely off-base, but it is obviously possible.

Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct".  That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.

Just, as this thread demonstrates, many look at it and say "Oh Belling said it, it must not be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be incorrect".

Each one is as bad as the other.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If you don't see the conflict between those two comments, there is not much I can do to help you. You clearly feel qualified to know on some occasions. A bit of a cop out on your part, no?

Not a cop out. The guy is in the local media and pretends to be knowledgeable/factual about EVERYTHING when in reality he is clearly uneducated on some topics, but he'll never admit that. The problem I have is not that I disagree with him some of the time, it's that he's just not knowledgeable on a lot of topics he covers, and he's pretending like he is. I'll be the first to admit that I don't know everything about local politics. But, I can't really trust Mark's opinion (even if I agree) because he's shown in the past that he's willing to spout off when he really doesn't know what he's talking about.

I guess the lesson would be to make up your own mind. If he's right, he's right, if he's wrong he's wrong. SEE ABOVEWhat's hard about that? If that doesn't get it done for you, there are many buttons on your radio and you are free to use them. Everyone is.

Agree. I don't listen to him often, and it's a free market, so if enough people tune out, he's show will be gone. If people listen to the show for entertainment purposes, then hey, go for it. But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Great email Wadesworld.....probably won't get a response from the chicken S*** but if you do, please post it.

Belling should change his opening phrase of "Standing up for Milwaukee.....This is the Mark Belling Late Afternoon Show"  He clearly is not standing up for Milwaukee but protecting and defending Madison.

I'm fine with it.  Let people talk and when we go on a tear in the next few years see who turns into supporters.  GO MU!

[NavinRJohnson]

But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.

On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.

[LON]

But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.

On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.

Wait a minute here, Colbert isn't a Republican?!?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.

On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.

Agree, and that's why I'm not saying this isn't about politics, it's about stupidity and lack of knowledge. Mark has both covered on this one.

I also think Belling is a little worse because he has what is really an "entertainment" show on NEWS-TALK 1130, which is really misleading for some stupid people. IT'S NOT NEWS.

The other shows are at least a little more honest about what they are (entertainment) and are on "comedy central".

Keither oberman on the other hand is on a news station and is a douche.

[mu_hilltopper]

Because the idiots have the platform.  They've got the wide audience.  They've got the credibility among the uniformed masses. Nothing anyone connected with MU can say is going to help that and any pro-MU talk just looks like a fluff piece.

Most people don't see the columns or listen to the radio and evaluate it objectively, they look at it and think "Oh Belling said it, it must be true" or "Hunt/Katz/Oates wrote it, it must be correct".  That sort of thing harms the image which eventually can/will harm the program itself.

If you can't understand that, there's not much anyone can do to explain it to you.  It's part of being a fan, either you get it or you don't.

+1

That's exactly why I wanted to respond with a CS post.     At least there this discussion has a higher visibility.

[TallTitan34]

You know baseball season is over and basketball season has begun when I am agreeing with wadesworld.

Great email wadesworld.  You probably won't get a response but for sure post it if you do.

[RawdogDX]

But, if people are listening to his show like its knowledgeable coverage of local events, then that's when my concern for the local community comes in.

On this we completely agree. I share the same concern about those who do this with The Daily Show, Colbert Report, SNL, etc., and I think we all know there are wayyyy too many people out there doing just that.

Or rush or anyone of Fox.
I noticed you didn't respond to Pakuni who did the best job of responding to your innitial comments on the peice.

[Badgerhater]

We really need the season to start so we can talk about real issues of importance rather than getting all hot-and-bothered by what someone who admits a lack of knowledge of college hoops says.

Everyone is getting a little squirrelly and Game 1 can't get here fast enough.

[NavinRJohnson]

I noticed you didn't respond to Pakuni who did the best job of responding to your innitial comments on the peice.

No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season.  Great. No problem.

He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html

Finally he said, "What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."

Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.

Any other questions?

[butchbadger]

This was in response to Hunt's silly column yesterday.  Hunt is quite 60's liberal and Belling can't stand him or the MJS.

And as someone mentioned he has been a little anti -Marquette since they left WISN.

His knowledge of college sports - especially here- is very limited.   He seemed to be talking out of his arse yesterday.

[RawdogDX]

No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season.  Great. No problem.

He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html

Finally he said, "What they didn't do was make reckless - and quite probably false - word choices like "pressured" that imply a) Maymon was coerced into encouraging his friend to attend MU and b) Blue chose Marquette not by his own free will, but rather under duress."

Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.

Any other questions?

Yes one more.  How does it feel to be so inlove with some radio blowhard that you can't admit he's talking out of his ass when he clearly is? 

[NavinRJohnson]

Yes one more.  How does it feel to be so inlove with some radio blowhard that you can't admit he's talking out of his ass when he clearly is? 

I on one hand am willing to listen to it, and consider that there may be some validity to elements of the comments (though I by and large disagree with much of what he said, and have been fairly clear about that).

Anything else?

[Pakuni]

No, I didn't because his response is entirely based on semantics, false assumptions and words like probably, sort of, very, etc.. He didn't say it was not a tumultuous off-season, he said it was not a very tumultuous off-season.  Great. No problem.

OK, I'll be clear.
I do not think it was a "tumultuous" offseason.
One kid who wasn't going to play transferred.
A freshman whose impact was yet to be seen got hurt.
A kid who hadn't even signed his letter of intent, must less set foot on campus, got arrested.
How is this so tumultuous? Or, better phrased, more tumultuous than what occurs at programs across the country every year. Dozens of head and assistant coaches move elsewhere every year. Dozens of players transfer. Dozens of players get hurt. Sometimes actual players - as opposed to just recruits, but recruits also - get arrested (see: Kansas, Louisville).
This is not tumult, much less extreme tumult.
For better or worse, this is routine stuff in major college basketball.
If this is tumultuous, then MU has had many, many tumultuous offseasons. We've seen recruits arrested (Damian Saunders), players get hurt (Fulce, Otule just last year) and players transfer (too many to list).

He said we didn't all believe MU was in a shambles two weeks ago, in response to me saying 'didn't we all sort of feel this way after a rape charge, season ending injury, and loss of a committed recruit? Again, really earth shattering stuff, but apparently he didn't read this board during that 7-10 day span. Even Cracked Sidewalks got in on the act saying things like the off-season can't end soon enough, cruel and unusual punishment, barrage of hits and humiliation.

http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/09/this-off-season-cant-end-soon-enough.html

Perhaps you and I have very different ideas of what it means to be "in shambles."
I do find it interesting, however, that you chose to cite one particuar opinion piece on a different site as evidence to support your claims "we all" felt this way, then conveniently ignored the reaction to that piece on this site and elsewhere. That reaction included:

"Wow. I have read some good stuff on CS before...unfortunately this isn't one of them."

"I have to say that this article is the sort of whiny crap I expect on these forums, but not Cracked Sidewalks. I find it to be embarassing and a complete lack of judgement from the editors at CS to publish something like this."

" I lost alot of respect for the editors over at cracked sidewalks with this article. "

"I think the article was crap too.  I agree with the othe rposter...simply a whiny crying little tantrum."
 
Apparently, not everyone "sorta" thought the program was in shambles.
In fact, not even the piece's author thought that. In defending the piece on this site, he said:

"Its been tough sledding for the good guys of late."

Tough sledding. Maybe it has been tough sledding. But shambles? Not even close.

Belling didn't imply anything, Pakuni inferred as much, based on the source. Raise your hand if you think Maymon did not "pressure" Blue to come to Marquette. He did, and why wouldn't he, or why shouldn't he? At no point did Belling suggest or imply that Blue made his decision under duress. Marquette convinced him to come here. Who used the words coerced and duress (And Belling is the reckless and hyperbolic one)? Belling also made it perfectly clear he saw nothing shady or unethical about it.

Oh boy ... now who's playing semantics? (and poorly, might I add)
Contrary to your claim, "pressure" and "convince" are not interchangeable terms. By its very definition, the term pressure implies the application of force, be it physical or mental. There is not such connotation with the word convince. And you very well Belling chose the word "pressure" for that reason. It would be exceptionally naive to think that after a lengthy diatribe against MU and Buzz Williams, Belling's choice of the word "pressure" was merely a benign coincidence.

[NavinRJohnson]

Oh boy ... now who's playing semantics? (and poorly, might I add)
Contrary to your claim, "pressure" and "convince" are not interchangeable terms. By its very definition, the term pressure implies the application of force, be it physical or mental. There is not such connotation with the word convince. And you very well Belling chose the word "pressure" for that reason. It would be exceptionally naive to think that after a lengthy diatribe against MU and Buzz Williams, Belling's choice of the word "pressure" was merely a benign coincidence.

Good Lord! I'll ask again, do you think Maymon applied 'pressure' on Blue to attend MU? If not, how else did he convince him to do so, telepathy?

[Hards Alumni]

what could he have said Navin?

"I won't be your friend if you don't come to MU"

I think the word pressure infers some sort of threat.

convincing someone does not.

just my 2c.

[NavinRJohnson]

what could he have said Navin?

"I won't be your friend if you don't come to MU"

I think the word pressure infers some sort of threat.

convincing someone does not.

just my 2c.

I'm just saying he is getting hung up on the word, which is the foundation of his argument and frankly isn't important. Before Belling's comments or this thread existed, had I or anyone else posted,  "t looks like Maymon 'pressured' Blue to come to MU," would anyone have even thought twice about it, let alone criticized it? Of course not. The reactions would have been somewhere along the lines of. "Good job Jeronne." "Assist to Maymon." Etc.

[Warrior Farls]

You have to forgive Navin, he has a huge man-crush on Mark Belling.

He would love to be the meat in a Mark Belling / Rush Limbaugh sandwich.   

[mu-rara]

Generally I  agree with Belling, but I listened to his rant against Buzz, and laughed.  

It was uninformed to say the least.  He has his mind made up about anything MU, and no logic will change that.  It started with Fr. DiUlio closing Wisconsin Ave. and has never ended.

Over the years Belling has become a charicature but overall value as a curmudgeon still works.  He keeps bureaucrats and politicians honest.