[Cracked Sidewalks] Patrick Hazel to transfer from Marquette University

[GOMU1104]

I cannot decide which is worse. A public University that keeps reinstating players who cause physical harm to others or a Catholic University that drops a player for making a stupid decision.

I think Hazel leaving was a fore-gone conclusion within the program, prior to his incident.

Hazel did what he did...and instead of calling him out in front of everyone and making him look like a fool, they handled it internally.

Had this information been released, it could have been more detrimental to his hopes in finding a new school to play for.

Buzz/the program/the universty did Pat a favor, the didn't "drop a player for making a bad decision" as you stated.

[4everwarriors]

Well said, bilsu.

[GregShimonFor2]

Well said MU1104.

[BrewCity83]

What was Dameon Mason's transgression?  I thought he just transferred because he wanted to be "the star"?

[SCdem@MU]

It's already been brought up and deleted, and that's best.

Let's leave it at that. The program did so Pat would have the chance to latch on somewhere else.

I really dislike the censorship that goes with the various Marquette boards. If a player was forced out of the USC Football team or Basketball team for off the field/court issues it would definitely be posted on the boards and it would stay.

Why does MU insist on such secrecy? Do people here honestly think that airing this stuff will hurt the program?
 

[muwarrior87]

I really dislike the censorship that goes with the various Marquette boards. If a player was forced out of the USC Football team or Basketball team for off the field/court issues it would definitely be posted on the boards and it would stay.

Why does MU insist on such secrecy? Do people here honestly think that airing this stuff will hurt the program?
 

to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.

[SCdem@MU]

to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.

Fine, then I'm going to assume that Patrick Hazel is a dendrophiliac and was caught by DPS feeling up a tree.

I really was hoping that the secrecy around the program ended with Crean's departure.

[SCdem@MU]

Had this information been released, it could have been more detrimental to his hopes in finding a new school to play for.

Right, because clearly the school he transfers to won't ask about it/find out about it. Coaches generally do their homework before taking a player on, even if they choose to ignore the issues.

If what he did is that serious then it should be aired. Whatever he did, at least he wasn't arrested for it, no record of a case in the Milwaukee court system.

Same can't be said about a certain former PG... but shhh! we aren't supposed to talk about that. Clearly teams won't do background checks.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Fine, then I'm going to assume that Patrick Hazel is a dendrophiliac and was caught by DPS feeling up a tree.

I really was hoping that the secrecy around the program ended with Crean's departure.

They are amateur student athletes at a private institution.

Why are you acting like you have the "right" to know?

MU can handle it however they want. You may not like it, but it's not wrong for them to keep things in house.

[GGGG]

They are amateur student athletes at a private institution.

Why are you acting like you have the "right" to know?

+1,000,000

Even athletes at a public institution have a right to have disciplinary actions kept private unless the police get involved.  And I applaud the mods for deleting the threads.  There is no reason we have to know the details.  Its enough to say that he had off-court troubles and is transferring.  Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

+1,000,000

Even athletes at a public institution have a right to have disciplinary actions kept private unless the police get involved.  And I applaud the mods for deleting the threads.  There is no reason we have to know the details.  Its enough to say that he had off-court troubles and is transferring.  Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.

I agree... the only reason I bring up the "private thing" is because at a public school, a portion of our tax dollars are paying that players scholarship.

Anyways, you're right. The only people who really want to know are just trying to satisfy their curiosity. This is not a common theme at MU, and the vast majority of players have graduated and become nice young men. No need for an inquisition.

[StillAWarrior]

Those who want to know the details are just in it for their curiosity.

I disagree.  I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run.  And I think that's totally legitimate.  People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons.  I know that is my interest in the issue.  I'm sure Buzz (like every other coach) will make recruiting mistakes.  I'd like to think that Marquette will be a program that won't just yank kids' scholarships if they happen to find a kid they like better a year or two later.  I think that Marquette should make a comittment to these kids and honor that comittment unless the kid does something that warrants that he be asked to leave the program.  And frankly, I'd like Marquette to run a pretty tight ship and hold the players to high standards.

That said, I don't really disagree with the decision to pull the thread (although I'll admit that I'm kind of glad I saw it before it was pulled).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I disagree.  I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run.  And I think that's totally legitimate.  People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons.  I know that is my interest in the issue.  I'm sure Buzz (like every other coach) will make recruiting mistakes.  I'd like to think that Marquette will be a program that won't just yank kids' scholarships if they happen to find a kid they like better a year or two later.  I think that Marquette should make a comittment to these kids and honor that comittment unless the kid does something that warrants that he be asked to leave the program.  And frankly, I'd like Marquette to run a pretty tight ship and hold the players to high standards.

That said, I don't really disagree with the decision to pull the thread (although I'll admit that I'm kind of glad I saw it before it was pulled).

If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.

But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.

We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.

[StillAWarrior]

If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.

But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.

We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.

I have two thoughts on your post.  First, this is Buzz's first year as head coach and none of us really knows what kind of program he will run.  I strongly suspect he's going to run a really clean program, but we don't know for sure.

Second, I guess it depends what kind of "stuff" you're talking about.  What I'm talking about is a coach running a kid out simply because he found someone he likes better.  I don't think Marquette should do that.  I think if the program does happen to make a recruiting mistake, it should live with that mistake.  So, that's why I'm curious about the reason a kid leaves the program.  I would rather know that there was a real reason the kid was asked to leave.  And I agree that the particulars really don't need to be hashed out, and that's why I haven't shared them with anyone.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I have two thoughts on your post.  First, this is Buzz's first year as head coach and none of us really knows what kind of program he will run.  I strongly suspect he's going to run a really clean program, but we don't know for sure.

Second, I guess it depends what kind of "stuff" you're talking about.  What I'm talking about is a coach running a kid out simply because he found someone he likes better.  I don't think Marquette should do that.  I think if the program does happen to make a recruiting mistake, it should live with that mistake.  So, that's why I'm curious about the reason a kid leaves the program.  I would rather know that there was a real reason the kid was asked to leave.  And I agree that the particulars really don't need to be hashed out, and that's why I haven't shared them with anyone.

You're right, it's Buzz's first year with the program, so I guess I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also, Fr. Wild and Cottingham are around as well. Obviously Buzz runs the day to day program, but I'm sure the AD and University President are aware of what is going on with the program. (ie if a player is being run out vs. a player making a mistake and being asked to leave).

[StillAWarrior]

If this kind of "stuff" was rumored for a couple different players for a couple years in a row, then I would agree with you.

But, at this point, MU has done an excellent job of maintaining a very clean program with some pretty good kids.

We have not suspected an "cover-ups" in the past, and MU has a 100% grad rate. So, I think we have a pretty decent idea that the program is being run pretty well.

And another thought:  I think that these issues are important for recruiting.  Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.

[GGGG]

I disagree.  I think a lot of people are interested in knowing because they want to know what is going on in the program and how the program is being run.  And I think that's totally legitimate.  People want to know whether Buzz is just running kids off for the hell of it and to make room for other kids, or whether he's asking them to leave for other reasons.  

But everyone acknowledges that he did have off court issues right?  Would you blame Buzz for encouraging someone to consider a transfer...or even outright tell him to transfer...based on such issues?  If so, why do we really need to know the specifics of what he did?

[GGGG]

And another thought:  I think that these issues are important for recruiting.  Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.

I agree with you.  But that doesn't mean we have a right to know exactly what Hazel did.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

And another thought:  I think that these issues are important for recruiting.  Two reasons:1) we want kids to know that Marquette will stick with them if they come; and 2) we want kids to know that Marquette will hold them to extremely high standards.

As a parent, I would be comforted in the fact that a university does not publicly air a players (alleged) indiscretion. Teams are often referred to as "families" (home away from home for these kids), and sometimes family business is best kept in the family.

Imagine if the University printed names in all of the DPS reports, and printed the punishments that were handed out? I think it's better to handle these things privately.

[StillAWarrior]

I agree with you.  But that doesn't mean we have a right to know exactly what Hazel did.

I really don't disagree with you too much.  My entire point is that it may be more than idle curiosity.  I think for a lot of people, there's a reason behind it:  "what's it take to get kicked out of the program?"  We know that schools have different approaches to that.  At Notre Dame, apparently you can get arrested for smoking weed, and they'll beg you to come back.  At Syracuse you can beat up your girlfriend.  I know that people on this board have criticized those schools for those decisions.  In light of that, I really am not too surprised that people want to know where Marquette draws the line.  It would appear that Buzz is going to run a much tighter ship than some other programs.

[BrewCity83]

to keep the player's dignity in tact as much as possible. If the incident isn't widely known, no need to smear it.

The best way for a player to keep his dignity in tact is to act in a dignified way.

I'm not saying that the University should put out a press release announcing whatever the kid did, but if some member of the public knows about what happened and is willing to share it with others on a message board, I don't think it should be deleted or covered up by the message board police.  

[GOMU1104]

Interesting quote from Georgetown Coach JT3:

"People leave for different reasons," Georgetown Coach John Thompson III said yesterday. "Some leave because they are unhappy with their playing time. Some leave because of family situations and personal issues. Some people don't necessarily have the option to return. There are different reasons why people leave."

[mu_hilltopper]

I am the "message board policeman" that has been spoken of.

Firstly, let's remember no one has a right to know anything.  Nor does anyone have a right to post anything on this board.  It's a privilege, bestowed by rocky and spiral, who pay for all this out of their own pocket.

Second .. as for "secrecy" within MU .. whatever.  Truth is, the story was posted on Scoop, and was on here for 4 hours before someone at MU contacted a 3rd party who knows me, who asked me to remove it.   (Why they didn't contact me directly is odd, but a different story.)

In any event, suffice it to say, Hazel did something that broke team rules, outside of the McGuire center.  Now, whether that's not returning library books on time, stealing silverwear from Saga, drinking underage, whatever.  Does it matter to you?  Will it change your life somehow to know this one-sentence story, of how a 20 year old kid did something stupid that got himself in trouble?   Nope.

As for wanting to know where MU would draw the line .. suffice it to say, IANAL, but think it'd be classified as a small potato crime.  Sleep easy, be proud we have high standards.

So .. as a courtesy to the MU program, and to a young man, I removed the story. 

Honestly, that helps all of us.  It helps MU, helps Hazel, but also helps Scoop look good, doing a solid.  That only helps our reputation, earns us some trust, and helps communications in the future.

[BrewCity83]

Hilltopper, thanks for the explanation.  It makes a difference to me that the school requested that the story be removed from the board--I respect that.

But I am interested as to the level of seriousness of a violation that our coach allows before someone is kicked off the team.  Or asked not to return, etc.

[bilsu]

First of all I think the University should keep it private. When McGuire had players apoligize it was already in the news. However, the problem with keeping it quite is that it leads to specaulation. I read the posts before they were deleted. The trouble is that they were unverifiable rumors and therefore should not have been posted. However, assuming they were true and Hazel was contrite about it he should not have been run off the team. The trouble is he may not have been run off the team, but decided to leave on his own. Basically we really know nothing about the entire situation. However, if he was still practicing with the team, I think it is poor judgement not to use him in games when we needed him.