Weather is likely to be a factor in KC. To a lesser extent in Buffalo. Steelers may actually view weather as a benefit. I think Cleveland may secretly be glad to be in Houston. Chiefs have been playing bad for weeks. I think the cold affects Tua more. KC. Buffalo ends the Steelers.
Cleveland's defense and the Flacco effect beats the rookie coach and rookie QB.
Two domes and Tampa in the NFC. Philadelphia has been in a death spiral. Mayfield takes advantage of the Patricia effect. Dallas home field is enough. Stafford ends Detroit in the most Lions way imaginable.
Chefs, Bills & Texans. Chefs defense is better and Fins are too beat up. Bills clicking, Steelers feel fraudy. Texans good enough to win at home. Interesting game.
Pokes, Buccs & Lions. You beat Dallas by making them turn it over. Pack don't do that. Pokes will need to give away the game. Something is fundamentally wrong with Philly plus wideouts banged up. Won't be surprised if they win but there's some bad vibes in Philly.
Think the Lions win. Rams are good, well-coached but Lions have buried a lot of narratives this year.
I get your argument, Rico, and that was the one I wavered on the most. I think the combination of the Rams offense and the Lions secondary decides it.
KC Swifties roll, and Tua is officially on the hot seat when he can't make plays off-schedule against a good defense.
Bills blowout the Steelers without Watt.
Houston and Cleveland give us the game of the week. Stroud exceeds expectations but Browns get a timely late turnover.
Cowboys are too much and Joe Barry is put out to pasture.
The Lions lions in the most lionsiest way possible.
Baker Mayfield parties like it's week 15 against Joe Barry.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 08, 2024, 07:12:00 PM
KC Swifties roll, and Tua is officially on the hot seat when he can't make plays off-schedule against a good defense
Subzero windchills mitigate the hot seat. If he has a bad game it will be attributed to learning to play in bad weather.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 06:41:19 PM
Weather is likely to be a factor in KC. To a lesser extent in Buffalo. Steelers may actually view weather as a benefit. I think Cleveland may secretly be glad to be in Houston. Chiefs have been playing bad for weeks. I think the cold affects TUa more. KC. Buffalo ends the Steelers.
Cleveland's defense and the Flacco effect beats the rookie.coach and rookie QB.
Two domes and Tampa in the NFC. Philadelphia has been in a death spiral. Mayfield takes advantage of the Patricia effect. Dallas home field is enough. Stafford ends Detroit in the most Lions way imaginable.
Agree except for Detroit/LA. Assume you're wary of jinxing the beloved but I think they'll be OK.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 07:18:41 PM
Subzero windchills mitigate the hot seat. If he has a bad game it will be attributed to learning to play in bad weather.
If the Fins are 100%, I'd give them a chance but that team is beat up. Don't think Chefs are long for January but should get this one
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 08, 2024, 07:21:31 PM
Agree except for Detroit/LA. Assume you're wary of jinxing the beloved but I think they'll be OK.
Purely objective. Detroit's secondary can't stop good receivers.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 07:24:27 PM
Purely objective. Detroit's secondary can't stop good receivers.
Stafford will give them a few opportunities to make plays
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 08, 2024, 07:30:59 PM
Stafford will give them a few opportunities to make plays
Look at the yards Mullens put up twice. Look at how many yards Dak and CeeDee had. Look at Love on Thanksgiving. If Stafford gets the ball out on time to his two receivers, he throws for 400. He always has the odd hero throw gone awry. The rush is going to have to get home and force a few.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 07:44:06 PM
Look at the yards Mullens put up twice. Look at how many yards Dak and CeeDee had. Look at Love on Thanksgiving. If Stafford gets the ball out on time to his two receivers, he throws for 400. He always has the odd hero throw gone awry. The rush is going to have to get home and force a few.
No question, he could have a huge game. Fun to be discussing, though
Yes.
Quote from: tower912 on January 08, 2024, 07:04:40 PM
I get your argument, Rico, and that was the one I wavered on the most. I think the combination of the Rams offense and the Lions secondary decides it.
I'd have been stunned if you had picked the Lions to win, tower.
I would have against the Packers.
Lions/Rams and Browns/Texans should be the best games imo
Honestly only Bills vs Steelers am I saying no chance for a team.
Pack will have to be very very good to win in Dallas but not impossible.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 08, 2024, 07:22:37 PM
If the Fins are 100%, I'd give them a chance but that team is beat up. Don't think Chefs are long for January but should get this one
Fins won 1 game this year. against a .500 or better team. They suck.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 08, 2024, 09:56:56 PM
Fins won 1 game this year. against a .500 or better team. They suck.
Still waiting on Fangio's Defense to start playing. Finished 23rd in points allowed.
I'm going for chaos in the NFC.
Underdogs win every game in the NFC.
And chalk in the AFC
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 08, 2024, 09:56:56 PM
Fins won 1 game this year. against a .500 or better team. They suck.
Obligatory, self-hating, yes they do. They remind me like a higher variance version of the late Marino Dolphins where they would put up a bunch of points, generally hover between 3rd-8th best looking team in the league, and then get trounced in the playoffs.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 08, 2024, 10:08:23 PM
Still waiting on Fangio's Defense to start playing. Finished 23rd in points allowed.
I feel a little bad for Fangio in that he had everything going for like 2-3 weeks and they looked pretty good. Otherwise, they've been devastated with injuries. No Ramsey to start the year, and the defense was admittedly pretty underwhelming out of the gate. Then they looked great once Ramsey came back, but its been followed up with injuries to Jevon Holland, Xavien Howard, Jaelen Phillips, Bradley Chubb, now Jerome Baker and Van Ginkel who were playing very well. They had planned to rotate four legit pass rushers and are now stuck with Ogbah and Melvin Ingram playing on running downs. No bueno.
Unpopular opinion, but I'm oddly more concerned about the offense. For all the accolades, I've watched it put up a ton of points against bad teams but get completely stymied by disciplined, physical defenses. The whole thing is designed around Tua getting the ball out in less than three seconds, but if you can stay disciplined against all the presnap motion and jam at the line a bit, the whole thing falls apart. For cap reasons, next year might be it for this group, and I'm oddly less concerned about the defense being competitive than the offense being able to score above average points against good teams.
I think if Miami gets its doors blown off this weekend, that McDaniel could be jettisoned for Harbaugh given the owner (Stephen Ross) ties to Michigan.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 09, 2024, 09:28:44 AM
I think if Miami gets its doors blown off this weekend, that McDaniel could be jettisoned for Harbaugh given the owner (Stephen Ross) ties to Michigan.
That seems unlikely to me but the bidding war for McDaniel would be interesting.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 09, 2024, 09:28:44 AM
I think if Miami gets its doors blown off this weekend, that McDaniel could be jettisoned for Harbaugh given the owner (Stephen Ross) ties to Michigan.
If that happens (which I think is unlikely), maybe we'd get another season of McDaniel on Hard Knocks. Which, as McDaniel might say, would be entertaining as F**k.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 09, 2024, 11:41:06 AM
If that happens (which I think is unlikely), maybe we'd get another season of McDaniel on Hard Knocks. Which, as McDaniel might say, would be entertaining as F**k.
If he coaches somewhere else next year, I don't think his team would be on Hard Knocks due to a new coach.
Which, an underrated part of the Packers making the playoffs is not being on Hard Knocks next year.
Quote from: MU82 on January 08, 2024, 08:42:56 PM
I'd have been stunned if you had picked the Lions to win, tower.
I hate that the Rams have to beat the Lions this weekend, but it must be done.
Whoever wins it will be an entertaining game.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 08, 2024, 07:22:37 PM
If the Fins are 100%, I'd give them a chance but that team is beat up. Don't think Chefs are long for January but should get this one
If you don't live in the Miami or KC market you can only watch the game on the Peacock network. NFL could care less about Joe Sixpack.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2024, 02:36:27 PM
If you don't live in the Miami or KC market you can only watch the game on the Peacock network. NFL could care less about Joe Sixpack.
Looks like a great opportunity for a free trial
Joe Sixpack has famously never watched football in a bar
I don't think I have heard the phrase "Joe Sixpack" since about 1983.
Anyway you are correct. The NFL doesn't care about him. The NFL cares about how much money Peacock is going to pay them to broadcast this game.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 10, 2024, 03:03:05 PM
Looks like a great opportunity for a free trial
Peacock does not offer a free trial.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 10, 2024, 03:06:39 PM
Joe Sixpack has famously never watched football in a bar
Even the bars are limited.
https://tvanswerman.com/2024/01/08/will-the-chiefs-dolphins-game-only-air-on-peacock/
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 10, 2024, 04:53:26 PM
Peacock does not offer a free trial.
I'll be at church anyway
I will still be digging out from the snow.
Peacock is $6/month. If one really wants to watch the playoff game, pay the $6, spend the next month checking out other programming on the network (for example, Poker Face was fun), and then cancel at 30 days. Easy peasy and hardly a bank-breaker.
Quote from: MU82 on January 11, 2024, 01:39:17 PM
Peacock is $6/month. If one really wants to watch the playoff game, pay the $6, spend the next month checking out other programming on the network (for example, Poker Face was fun), and then cancel at 30 days. Easy peasy and hardly a bank-breaker.
Joe Six-Pack is going to have to stick with Busch Light in that case.
Weekend weather is going to lead to more domed stadiums. KC and Buffalo, oy.
There may be more domed stadiums, though Buffalo's new one won't be, but that's mostly due to the ability to host other events. I don't think playoff weather is a huge driver.
Quote from: tower912 on January 12, 2024, 06:54:04 AM
Weekend weather is going to lead to more domed stadiums. KC and Buffalo, oy.
$30 tickets now available for the KC-Miami game.
Quote from: tower912 on January 12, 2024, 07:27:33 PM
$30 tickets now available for the KC-Miami game.
They would have to pay me $1,000 - minimum - to go to that game.
Bills / Steelers postponed to Monday afternoon.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 11, 2024, 01:51:23 PM
Joe Six-Pack is going to have to stick with Busch Light in that case.
As long as it isn't bud light!
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 11:45:41 AM
Bills / Steelers postponed to Monday afternoon.
Ostensibly to protect the fans. The roads around Buffalo are going to be brutal and the deputies who would ordinarily be handling traffic around the stadium will be occupied with weather related traffic messes.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 13, 2024, 12:18:56 PM
NFL has gone woke!
Wussification of America.
Next thing you know they'll be giving out participation trophies.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 10, 2024, 05:35:04 PM
I'll be at church anyway
Got Peackock and am skipping church
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 13, 2024, 03:13:54 PM
Got Peackock and am skipping church
Found out my wife has an account. So gonna watch it tonight and pour one out for Joe Six Pack.
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Ostensibly to protect the fans.
I guess they don't give a rat's rump about KC fans, ostensibly or otherwise!
Houston's left tackle flinches before the snap on just about every pass play. I don't blame him - he's usually facing Myles Garrett, but I don't know why they aren't calling it.
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2024, 01:21:36 PM
Ostensibly to protect the fans. The roads around Buffalo are going to be brutal and the deputies who would ordinarily be handling traffic around the stadium will be occupied with weather related traffic messes.
There is a full travel ban in Erie county tomorrow for passenger vehicles.
NFL foolishly wants fans in the stands. Giving in to the football fan bloc.
Entertaining game so far. That was PI and should be reviewable
Quote from: MU82 on January 13, 2024, 03:57:39 PM
Houston's left tackle flinches before the snap on just about every pass play. I don't blame him - he's usually facing Myles Garrett, but I don't know why they aren't calling it.
It's pretty blatant
Bears fans thought that non call for Flacco was only a Justin Fields conspiracy.
Man is Stroud impressive.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 04:58:16 PM
Man is Stroud impressive.
Panthers and Bears will be kicking themselves for years.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 04:58:16 PM
Man is Stroud impressive.
He makes the long pass look so easy, no effort.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 13, 2024, 04:58:16 PM
Man is Stroud impressive.
Great game plan by Texans. Browns defense out of position all half
Really enjoying Taylor Swift dominating NFL discourse. Dongslinger and Dungy chiming in
Quote from: wadesworld on January 13, 2024, 04:42:41 PM
Bears fans thought that non call for Flacco was only a Justin Fields conspiracy.
Bears fans (some at least) thought the 10 points Fields put up on the Browns (a.k.a. '85 Bears) was very good.
Flacco was a nice story but those pick-6's are part of why he wasn't on a roster to start the year
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 13, 2024, 05:41:57 PM
Flacco was a nice story but those pick-6's are part of why he wasn't on a roster to start the year
All water finds its level.
Texans have a good QB.
Texans have a good OC.
Bears have maybe 1 of those.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 13, 2024, 06:16:18 PM
Texans have a good QB.
Texans have a good OC.
Bears have maybe 1 of those.
How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?
Quote from: wadesworld on January 13, 2024, 05:01:32 PM
Panthers and Bears will be kicking themselves for years.
It's impossible to watch this as a Panthers fan and not lament the one that got away. I agree that Stroud's passing motion seems so effortless, and he moves in the pocket so well. Throws accurately and on time. Just outstanding to watch.
He's disproving the critics he had. That real low score he got on whatever that test was called ... I guess he's disproving what the experts said about that, too.
Having said that ... I would like to see how Bryce Young would do if he got to throw to a receiver like Collins and if he had an offensive line that gave him any time at all. But that isn't to take anything away from Stroud, who could be a foundational piece for the Texans for a decade or more.
Quote from: MU82 on January 13, 2024, 06:48:12 PM
Having said that ... I would like to see how Bryce Young would do if he got to throw to a receiver like Collins and if he had an offensive line that gave him any time at all.
The Barry Sanders, Matthew Stafford lament.
Peacock getting people to pay to listen to Jason Garrett in the booth is quite the flex.
4 below.
Almost that cold in the deep south. They named a town for it.
Two below, Mississippi.
Quote from: forgetful on January 13, 2024, 06:25:56 PM
How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?
Strouds talent would have been wasted with this coaching staff
Have been a CJ Stroud fan since I saw him live early in the season.
Has a bright future
Quote from: tower912 on January 13, 2024, 07:11:42 PM
4 below.
Almost that cold in the deep south. They named a town for it.
Two below, Mississippi.
The home of Two Below Honey.
Now that we are in playoffs cant see any team beating The Chiefs . Mahomes and Kelce have too much talent
Best team I have seen this year is Baltimore.
Quote from: forgetful on January 13, 2024, 06:25:56 PM
How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?
A lot. The QB is by far the most important position in the NFL. Stroud is great, Fields is not. Could've gotten assets for Fields going into the Draft and had Stroud at 1.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 13, 2024, 09:56:19 PM
A lot. The QB is by far the most important position in the NFL. Stroud is great, Fields is not. Could've gotten assets for Fields going into the Draft and had Stroud at 1.
Instead got DJ Moore and this year's #1 pick in a much stronger QB draft. Hindsight is 20/20
Quote from: forgetful on January 13, 2024, 06:25:56 PM
How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?
How much worse would they be with last year's consensus #1 (Young) and without this year's #1, DJ Moore and Darnell Wright?
Quote from: wadesworld on January 13, 2024, 09:56:19 PM
A lot. The QB is by far the most important position in the NFL. Stroud is great, Fields is not. Could've gotten assets for Fields going into the Draft and had Stroud at 1.
There is zero chance the bears make the playoffs this year if they have CJ, but without Moore and Wright.
Not to mention that there's zero chance the 2023 bears staff draws up plays for CJ the way Slowik has done.
It's not like the Houston Texans were some juggernaut and Stroud was stepping into a stacked roster that clearly just needed a good quarterback.
If the Bears front office defends Fields like their fanbase I'm all for it. The Bears will never be anything more than mediocre until they get decent quarterback play.
The Texans were 3-13-1 last year and their top 3 receivers from last year are not on their roster this year. Guess what makes bad or average receivers good? A great quarterback.
I seriously can't believe Bears fans think they'd be in the same spot they are now had they traded Fields and took Stroud 1 overall. Bryce Young? Sure. Stroud? Difference maker.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 13, 2024, 11:01:05 PM
I seriously can't believe Bears fans think they'd be in the same spot they are now had they traded Fields and took Stroud 1 overall. Bryce Young? Sure. Stroud? Difference maker.
They don't think that. People are trolling you.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 13, 2024, 11:29:11 PM
They don't think that. People are trolling you.
If you let the Bears pick which QB they wanted AFTER watching them for a season, sure. Stroud's a stud given the benefit of hindsight, but how many "experts" or GMs had him as #1. Similarly, if the Bears get to pick WHICH QB (Williams, Maye, Daniels, Penix, etc.) they want after watching them play actual NFL games? Sure, a no brainer. That's not the way it works.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2024, 12:49:29 AM
If you let the Bears pick which QB they wanted AFTER watching them for a season, sure. Stroud's a stud given the benefit of hindsight, but how many "experts" or GMs had him as #1. Similarly, if the Bears get to pick WHICH QB (Williams, Maye, Daniels, Penix, etc.) they want after watching them play actual NFL games? Sure, a no brainer. That's not the way it works.
Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.
"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"
And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 06:31:19 AM
Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.
"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"
And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.
The biggest difference is this, Stroud is good. Fields is bad.
NFL was very careful to re-schedule Steelers-Bills in a way that let them avoid going head-to-head with a Villanova-Marquette matchup that has the entire nation drooling with anticipation!
If you need an example of why the Bears will play the lottery in the draft, look at Miami. They built an entire offense around accentuating Tua's strengths (accuracy, decisiveness) and minimizing his weaknesses (playing outside of structure) and are now faced with the prospect of paying him like a top 3 QB.
Fields obviously much different (inaccurate, indecisive, but great playing outside of structure) but the thought is the same. If your ceiling is short of "Can win us a Super Bowl" is this where you hitch your wagon?
For fun, who'd you rather extend: Tua or Love?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 14, 2024, 08:21:49 AM
The biggest difference is this, Stroud is good. Fields is bad.
Yes.
But we have people saying "but we wouldn't have D.J. Moore or Darnell Wright." Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable. Wright seems good too. But neither of these guys is nearly as important as a decent quarterback. And you for sure take the more proven Stroud rather than the potential of Williams or Maye even if you lose these two in the process.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 08:31:04 AM
Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable.
Agree, with a caveat: The team replacing him must not be filled with incompetent dopes (unlike the team that failed to replace him).
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 08:31:04 AM
Yes.
But we have people saying "but we wouldn't have D.J. Moore or Darnell Wright." Moore is a nice receiver but is by and large completely replaceable. Wright seems good too. But neither of these guys is nearly as important as a decent quarterback. And you for sure take the more proven Stroud rather than the potential of Williams or Maye even if you lose these two in the process.
I said those things. And it's accurate. We wouldn't have those 2.
If the bears didn't have a competent right tackle or a WR capable of some separation + a coaching staff that could not scheme open WR or scheme to protect a QB/give them time behind a bad OL = not great QB play regardless of the QB
Yeah I just don't agree with that.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2024, 08:57:55 AM
I said those things. And it's accurate. We wouldn't have those 2.
If the bears didn't have a competent right tackle or a WR capable of some separation + a coaching staff that could not scheme open WR or scheme to protect a QB/give them time behind a bad OL = not great QB play regardless of the QB
Doesn't matter if the QB stinks. Fields isn't it. Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close.
The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year. Fields couldn't expose them. Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but the Bears are in a better position having not drafted Stroud SO LONG AS they get this pick right.
I disagree with MU82 on DJ Moore - he has elite YAC skills that you don't just find - he has routinely excelled with subpar QB play and being the only viable receiver. I'm sure the Bears would be in position to draft Odunze or another top WR even with Stroud, but they know they have it now. I don't think they'd be in position to draft MHJ.
It's all with the benefit of hindsight, but the Bears have better control of their future having not drafted Stroud than they otherwise would have.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 14, 2024, 09:12:33 AM
Doesn't matter if the QB stinks. Fields isn't it. Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close.
The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year. Fields couldn't expose them. Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB
Agreed. I think Bears fans have been so beaten down and accustom to poor QB play, Field's performance, especially the special plays he makes, makes them think he is good or very good. For reference the Broncos
benched Wilson and his 26 TDs, 8 INTs, 3,070 YDs, 98 RTG; Fields had 16 TDs, 9 INTs, 2,562 YDs, 86 RTG. Rushing: Wilson 3 TDs, Fields 4 TDs.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 14, 2024, 09:12:33 AM
Doesn't matter if the QB stinks. Fields isn't it. Maybe there's a point the QB part matches the physical talent but he isn't close.
The Packers defense has been exposed by bad QBs this year. Fields couldn't expose them. Make all the excuses you want about the staff and people around him, but at some point, it's the QB
Fields is NOT the QB. I think I've said that before.
What I'm saying now is that an incompetent offensive staff, incapable of designing a good scheme/strategy + bad WR corps + bad OL = a bad offense even with Stroud at QB.
Is Herbert a good QB? How'd San Diego's offense do this year? Is Purdy a good QB? Goff? Minshew?
QB talent matters. Probably more than any other factor. But if every other factor around that QB is bad, the offense will be bad. If every other factor around that QB is good, the offense will be good.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 14, 2024, 08:26:54 AM
If you need an example of why the Bears will play the lottery in the draft, look at Miami. They built an entire offense around accentuating Tua's strengths (accuracy, decisiveness) and minimizing his weaknesses (playing outside of structure) and are now faced with the prospect of paying him like a top 3 QB.
Fields obviously much different (inaccurate, indecisive, but great playing outside of structure) but the thought is the same. If your ceiling is short of "Can win us a Super Bowl" is this where you hitch your wagon?
For fun, who'd you rather extend: Tua or Love?
I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.
To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 14, 2024, 09:46:55 AM
Fields is NOT the QB. I think I've said that before.
What I'm saying now is that an incompetent offensive staff, incapable of designing a good scheme/strategy + bad WR corps + bad OL = a bad offense even with Stroud at QB.
Is Herbert a good QB? How'd San Diego's offense do this year? Is Purdy a good QB? Goff? Minshew?
QB talent matters. Probably more than any other factor. But if every other factor around that QB is bad, the offense will be bad. If every other factor around that QB is good, the offense will be good.
That's all fair.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2024, 10:07:14 AM
I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.
To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.
Can't ignore the head injury factor with Tua either, though he did an incredible job learning how to protect himself this year.
I'd say they'd be a surprise prime candidate to maneuver up on draft day but they don't have much ammo draft pick wise.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 14, 2024, 10:24:07 AM
Can't ignore the head injury factor with Tua either, though he did an incredible job learning how to protect himself this year.
I'd say they'd be a surprise prime candidate to maneuver up on draft day but they don't have much ammo draft pick wise.
I thought about that too, and you're right about lack of capital to trade. Maye would be a great fit for Miami.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GD0BP2GXEAAdv7s?format=jpg&name=medium)
Proud UW-Madison grad
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 14, 2024, 06:31:19 AM
Uh...the original question asked was one of hindsight. That was the point.
"How much better would the Bears have been if they didn't trade out of #1, and instead drafted Stroud?"
And wades is right. Stroud would have made the Bears significantly better. People are talking like D.J. Moore is some stud receiver and it's kinda funny.
1.Hindsight is meaningless
2.Even with hindsight, very few people had Stroud as the #1 QB.
Everyone who passed on Mahomes, Brady, etc., etc., etc., would have been much better if they didn't. So what?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 14, 2024, 11:04:59 AM
1.Hindsight is meaningless
2.Even with hindsight, very few people had Stroud as the #1 QB.
Everyone who passed on Mahomes, Brady, etc., etc., etc., would have been much better if they didn't. So what?
You're not required to participate in the discussion.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 14, 2024, 10:07:14 AM
I think this is the best take here I've seen, kudos.
To your Tua/Love scenario, I'd rather pay Love. I'd pick up Tua's 5th year option, and then franchise him (if he's healthy and progressing). If they weren't $40 million over the cap (yikes), I would have suggested Cousins as a great fit for Miami, but that's not happening.
Agree with all this. As a Dolphins fan, the last two weeks were like having a fart you don't trust without access to a bathroom.
The Tua-McDaniels combo has been fun(ish) and with their roster construction, they're probably pot committed to it for this competitive window. But we've seen its peak, and that peak is not sustainable. So long as Tyreek is Tyreek, the offense will start hot every year with McDaniels latest prensap motion innovations, then slowly fade as defenses adjust and Tua's limitations prevent the Dolphins from counterpunching. Even when his stats are great, Tua's inability to go off script (due to lack of pure athleticism and that if he takes another hit to the noggin his career is over) and zip (evertything hangs and he just gets away with it due to Tyreek and Waddle being great) lower the teams' ceiling. You can get away with all that and remain competitive if you put a great team around him, but that's impossible once you pay him.
Note: being a fan of the Dolphins heavily informs why I believe the Bears have to take a QB at 1:1. As GB mentions, the Fields situation is very similar to Tua even if they are very different players.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 14, 2024, 09:29:03 AM
Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good, but the Bears are in a better position having not drafted Stroud SO LONG AS they get this pick right.
I disagree with MU82 on DJ Moore - he has elite YAC skills that you don't just find - he has routinely excelled with subpar QB play and being the only viable receiver. I'm sure the Bears would be in position to draft Odunze or another top WR even with Stroud, but they know they have it now. I don't think they'd be in position to draft MHJ.
It's all with the benefit of hindsight, but the Bears have better control of their future having not drafted Stroud than they otherwise would have.
This is ignoring what they could've got back for Fields last year. He still had quite a bit of value then.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 14, 2024, 12:34:19 PM
This is ignoring what they could've got back for Fields last year. He still had quite a bit of value then.
No he didn't.
He had been - through last year - statistically one of the worst QBs in NFL history. His value was (and is) predicated on the hubris of another organization thinking (observing) that the Bears organization is rim by idiots and could give him appropriate coaching.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 14, 2024, 12:41:36 PM
No he didn't.
He had been - through last year - statistically one of the worst QBs in NFL history. His value was (and is) predicated on the hubris of another organization thinking (observing) that the Bears organization is rim by idiots and could give him appropriate coaching.
We had Scoopers sharing experts saying he would currently be worth a second. This is with another season of him being, at best, a below average quarterback. It obviously wouldn't have been the return they got for 1 overall, but they would've got something for him.
Heck, the Packers could use him to replace Aaron Jones someday.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 14, 2024, 12:50:35 PM
We had Scoopers sharing experts saying he would currently be worth a second. This is with another season of him being, at best, a below average quarterback. It obviously wouldn't have been the return they got for 1 overall, but they would've got something for him.
Heck, the Packers could use him to replace Aaron Jones someday.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/47839447fd99f1b6c19809fa19181dbb/tumblr_mus41srzPi1s0my1wo1_400.gif)
Wonder what the ratings are going to be for the Chiefs Bengals game being shown on CBS
Quote from: lawdog77 on January 14, 2024, 02:28:14 PM
Wonder what the ratings are going to be for the Chiefs Bengals game being shown on CBS
I'm watching. I've got $10k on the money line for the Bengals. Fingers Crossed! :)
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 14, 2024, 09:29:03 AM
I disagree with MU82 on DJ Moore - he has elite YAC skills that you don't just find - he has routinely excelled with subpar QB play and being the only viable receiver.
He's a nice player, been a good to very good NFL receiver. I'd take him on my team. I wish the Panthers still had him. But there are multiple WRs like him available in pretty much every draft.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 03:10:34 PM
He's a nice player, been a good to very good NFL receiver. I'd take him on my team. I wish the Panthers still had him. But there are multiple WRs like him available in pretty much every draft.
Who was throwing to him on the panthers? He doesn't drop the ball.
PFF has him #4 in the top ten as of December. Even if you call shenanigans and say top 30, You're just flat out wrong that you're gonna have multiple replacement players in each draft.
Greg Olsen is so good
The Lions-Rams game living up to the billing so far
Refs screw Lions again, costing them possession with a minute left in the first half.
The Lions attempt at deception confused the referees.
Miami would've been forced to forfeit the game if they laid that hit on Mahomes.
This has been a terribly officiated game. How was that not roughing??
Well, the hit that might have knocked Stafford out of the game sure looked like roughing the passer to me.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 09:11:35 PM
Well, the hit that might have knocked Stafford out of the game sure looked like roughing the passer to me.
Sounds about white that Hutchinson could get away with that
It.could have easily been roughing. Then Hutchinson stepped on his upper arm while his head was bouncing off the turf.
Not sure I'd have taken that penalty
This is atrocious.
Never mind. Lions get away with a little jersey-grab and Rams have to punt.
Rams needed to turn that into a 4th and manageable. Don't think they'll get the ball back with much time.
Lions have gotten away with some dirty play tonight
Congrats to our own Doubting Tower!
McVay definitely had a rough second half.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 10:02:04 PM
Congrats to our own Doubting Tower!
Playoff win or bust. Good for them.
Crackpot Tony Dungy says Taylor Swift is the reason that the NFL is losing so many fans.
Quote from: Jockey on January 14, 2024, 10:14:20 PM
Crackpot Tony Dungy says Taylor Swift is the reason that the NFL is losing so many fans.
Tony Dungy has his finger on the pulse of America.
Quote from: MU82 on January 14, 2024, 10:02:04 PM
Congrats to our own Doubting Tower!
Yep. Never a doubt.
Great win by the Lions tonight. If the Rams had to lose, I'm glad it was the Lions who beat them. Now I can cheer for Detroit the rest of the way.
The Peacock game out-rated last year's Saturday night Wild Card game by 6 percent
The NFL is doomed. Taylor Swift is driving fans away in droves.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 15, 2024, 06:40:52 AM
The Peacock game out-rated last year's Saturday night Wild Card game by 6 percent
The NFL is doomed. Taylor Swift is driving fans away in droves.
Streaming is also doomed.
I thought the broadcast was fine and I am sure we will see more streaming in the future, but NBC's hyping of it yesterday was really weird.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1746728117199065465
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 15, 2024, 08:54:52 AM
I thought the broadcast was fine and I am sure we will see more streaming in the future, but NBC's hyping of it yesterday was really weird.
https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1746728117199065465
Yeah, this was somewhere between a streaming event and a low cost ppv.
Smart by NBC, as they have the exclusive steaming rights to Oppenheimer launching a month and a few days from this game.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 15, 2024, 06:40:52 AM
The Peacock game out-rated last year's Saturday night Wild Card game by 6 percent
The NFL is doomed. Taylor Swift is driving fans away in droves.
Artic cold is good for ratings, hey?
https://x.com/foxsportspr/status/1746998586536059368?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Why the next NFL deal will be a trillion dollars
Man, Philly.
Jalen Hurts is no longer just a name, it is a sentence.
Crash and burn.
Seems like Matt Patricia fixed the Eagles defense.
Just like he did in Detroit.
I have not seen a worse tackling team since the Bob Slowik year in GB in 04
That came out of nowhere.
Im not able to watch the first half, so sorry if they talked about it on the broadcast, but does the chart say to go for two at 9-16?
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 15, 2024, 08:32:57 PM
Im not able to watch the first half, so sorry if they talked about it on the broadcast, but does the chart say to go for two at 9-16?
They got Tampa to jump offsides on the XP and tried the Tush Push and got stuffed
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 15, 2024, 08:36:01 PM
They got Tampa to jump offsides on the XP and tried the Tush Push and got stuffed
Oh okay thanks. And excellent.
Just about any other team has blown this one out against Philly. Letting the Eagles get ol' mo
The Belichick era in Philly getting closer and closer.
If TB could be anything less than atrocious on 3rd down in Eagles territory, they would be up double 2 TDs or more.
What is Hurts doing?
Sirianni gowne
Sirianni and Hurts aren't blameless, but the Eagles stopped playing defense in November.
The Lions are going to sleep walk to the NFCC against the Bucs
Everyone applauds Howie Roseman, but he did a bad job with this Eagles secondary. Jalen Carter ended up being fine for them, he had long stretches of games where he was MIA this season though. But for a draft class that was strong at CB, his way too old secondary certainly got exposed this year.
Quote from: forgetful on January 09, 2024, 12:16:26 AM
I'm going for chaos in the NFC.
Underdogs win every game in the NFC.
And chalk in the AFC
If it wasn't for the Damn Lions, I'd have gotten it 100% right.
Actually happy for the Lions though. Been a long time since they had something to be happy about.
edit: Scratch that, just realized Tampa Bay was actually the favorite and not the underdog.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 15, 2024, 09:31:08 PM
Sirianni gowne
After that end-of-season collapse, maybe some rich Marquette alums will buy out his contract.
Goff vs. Mayfield. There is a redemption story.
Quote from: tower912 on January 16, 2024, 05:48:08 AM
Goff vs. Mayfield. There is a redemption story.
Obviously there is a ton of merited talk about the Eagles implosion, but regardless of how bad Patricia was last night...Baker was FANTASTIC. Shades of 2020. That throw he made for the final TD was a perfect encapsulation of that.
He's taken the short term second chance he had in Tampa and just balled out in a contract year. He's still on the low side of 30, he's about to get PAID. Derek Carr signed for $37.5MM a year. Daniel Jones for $40MM. Gotta think Baker gets at least $35MM. Crazy that 2 years after being jettisoned, he'll sign a contract for a more per year than his total rookie deal as a #1 pick.
I always have thought that the Browns were way too quick to get rid of him. He played injured all of 2022 and still was effective. Going all in on Watson was always a dubious move, and Baker likely needed a change of scenery, but this seems to be another case study of what bad franchises keep being bad franchises.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 16, 2024, 10:00:19 AM
I always have thought that the Browns were way too quick to get rid of him. He played injured all of 2022 and still was effective. Going all in on Watson was always a dubious move, and Baker likely needed a change of scenery, but this seems to be another case study of what bad franchises keep being bad franchises.
And speaking of bad franchises ... Mayfield absolutely sucked for the Panthers.
But anybody with half a brain (and I do qualify, but just barely) knew that the team around him was effed. He didn't help himself with some boneheaded decisions, but he got just about no help.
He actually was a real good teammate in NC. Always accepted responsibility, never pointed fingers, stayed ready after being benched, didn't whine about the (bad) coaching, etc. I truly wish him well.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 16, 2024, 10:00:19 AM
I always have thought that the Browns were way too quick to get rid of him. He played injured all of 2022 and still was effective. Going all in on Watson was always a dubious move, and Baker likely needed a change of scenery, but this seems to be another case study of what bad franchises keep being bad franchises.
The team is playing OK, but Baker has been pretty pedestrian. He benefited last night from an Eagles team that had little interest in tackling (219 of his 337 yards passing were after the catch) or, really, playing much defense at all. In terms of all the metrics over the course of the season, he's been very middle of the pack.
It's understandable to look back now and say "maybe Cleveland should have kept him," but that overlooks how toxic the situation was there and how the locker room - and city - had had enough of him.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 16, 2024, 11:44:28 AM
The team is playing OK, but Baker has been pretty pedestrian. He benefited last night from an Eagles team that had little interest in tackling (219 of his 337 yards passing were after the catch) or, really, playing much defense at all. In terms of all the metrics over the course of the season, he's been very middle of the pack.
It's understandable to look back now and say "maybe Cleveland should have kept him," but that overlooks how toxic the situation was there and how the locker room - and city - had had enough of him.
Actually had the same conversation this morning. I asked my friend what the main factor was for Baker getting shoved out. He basically said, as mentioned here, the injury timing was just terrible. He played bad with and around the injury, he wanted more than the $20MMish a year the Browns would pay him, and the locker room was a mess. And Stefanski didn't really seem to care for him. He never made any specific statements, but my friend specifically mentioned that Stefanski speaks glowingly and positively about Watson that he never did with Baker.
He seems like a good dude, a good locker room presence, likely needed to grow up a bit...I can see how a walk on turned into a Heisman winning, 1st pick might have a bit of attitude or whatnot. But a change of scenery can do a lot for some QBs, shout out Jared Goff.
Bowles asked in his presser how he is getting his team ready for the weather in Detroit.
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2024, 11:09:08 AM
Bowles asked in his presser how he is getting his team ready for the weather in Detroit.
I don't know how he managed to keep a straight face as that question was being asked
Quote from: tower912 on January 17, 2024, 11:09:08 AM
Bowles asked in his presser how he is getting his team ready for the weather in Detroit.
Hey you can never be too careful about the walk between the hotel and bus, and bus and stadium.
Quote from: forgetful on January 17, 2024, 12:17:40 PM
Hey you can never be too careful about the walk between the hotel and bus, and bus and stadium.
Sure but that probably has more to do with dentists lurking about than the weather
Ravens 34 Texans 16
49ers 38 Packers 24
Texans D has been impressive
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 20, 2024, 05:00:51 PM
Texans D has been impressive
Yup. Lamar needs to pull the trigger on the ball, though. Playing tentative passing
Ravens overpowering the Texans in the 2nd half
This is a lower scoring version of what I expect the 49ers-Packers game will be. Texans just ran out of juice and the Ravens made the adjustments good teams make.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 20, 2024, 06:15:31 PM
This is a lower scoring version of what I expect the 49ers-Packers game will be. Texans just ran out of juice and the Ravens made the adjustments good teams make.
Texans defense played less aggressive in the 2nd half than they did to close the 1st half.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 20, 2024, 06:15:31 PM
This is a lower scoring version of what I expect the 49ers-Packers game will be. Texans just ran out of juice and the Ravens made the adjustments good teams make.
This is how I see the Packer game going tonight. GB keeps it close early but the 49's pull away and win big with Samual & McCaffrey wearing down the Packer defense. I hope I'm wrong!
Texans had a great year. Need a dynamo to rush the QB on that defense. Like the Texans future a lot more than Jacksonville
Ravens are the team to beat.
Lions 31 Buccs 17
Bills 19 Chiefs 16
Go Bills
How widespread is the dropped feed for the Tampa/Lions game? Because, of course.
Quote from: tower912 on January 21, 2024, 03:08:34 PM
How widespread is the dropped feed for the Tampa/Lions game? Because, of course.
I'm still getting it, but I'm streaming it on the NBC App because I'm a cord cutter.
Went out one time for 2-3 seconds. Otherwise good.
NFL is doomed
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/49ers-packers-projects-to-be-most-watched-saturday-telecast-since-1994-winter-olympics
Pucker time in Motown
Meh. House money.
Hah
In the most Lions thing ever, most Michigan cable and antenna users have lost the broadcast since 5 minutes to go in the first half. I switched to Peacock and am watching it. Too funny.
Hell of a drive by Mayfield to tie it up.
I wonder if the lions staff didn't know the calf rule?
I guess that's why the Lions drafted Jahmyr Gibbs.
Excuse my ignorance but why the F would you go for 2 down 8 with 4:30 to go in the game?
Baker making some mega - dollars today.
Quote from: MU82 on January 21, 2024, 04:32:02 PM
I guess that's why the Lions drafted Jahmyr Gibbs.
I said on draft day that it was a great pick. Sometimes drafting what you need outweighs conventional wisdom
Yes. Mayfield has resurrected his career this year.
First time all season Detroit's 4 minute offense did not finish the game. Ergo, the first time the defense has to hold a lead.
Congrats tower!
Congrats, Tower.
We were all rooting for you because you guys were harmless little cubs for so long
Next year, we Packer fans will not be nearly as nice.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 21, 2024, 04:58:53 PM
Excuse my ignorance but why the F would you go for 2 down 8 with 4:30 to go in the game?
Muggsy, because math
https://twitter.com/KevinCole___/status/1308243890269552641?t=M-VDJWV5VtiJN1j6f2Tcxg&s=19
I didn't do anything.
I think about all the older people I have seen wearing Lions t-shirts saying
"Please, just 1 before I die."
There will be a lot of tears shed.
Go Lions, IMO
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 21, 2024, 05:14:39 PM
Muggsy, because math
https://twitter.com/KevinCole___/status/1308243890269552641?t=M-VDJWV5VtiJN1j6f2Tcxg&s=19
Yeah Packers won a game earlier this year doing this.
Quote from: Jockey on January 21, 2024, 05:14:27 PM
Congrats, Tower.
We were all rooting for you because you guys were harmless little cubs for so long
Next year, we Packer fans will not be nearly as nice.
Nor should you.
Happy for tower and my best MU friend, who also is a many-decades Lions sufferer.
Josh Allen doing Josh Allen things already.
Did anyone notice that Dick's Sporting goods commercial during NFL yesterday?
The commercial is not new and is about the good in sports and coaches. But they updated the team at the end was Shaka celebrating in a locker room (Kam Jones too). Is that something new?
Watching Hamlin make a tackle for Buffalo. Wow.
If I'm McDermott, I don't trust my kicker with anything more than a 35-yard FG. Looks very shaky.
Quote from: marqfan22 on January 21, 2024, 06:24:02 PM
Did anyone notice that Dick's Sporting goods commercial during NFL yesterday?
The commercial is not new and is about the good in sports and coaches. But they updated the team at the end was Shaka celebrating in a locker room (Kam Jones too). Is that something new?
I believe so. Was going to post the same thing.
They showed in the Q2 of the Bills/Chiefs game too.
Buffalo D getting absolutely gashed. Chiefs D at least making the Bills work a bit
Chiefs will run the table again this year. No defense can stop Mahomes in the playoffs.
Quote from: Herman Cain on January 21, 2024, 07:53:47 PM
Chiefs will run the table again this year. No defense can stop Mahomes in the playoffs.
Wrong. Script is already written for 49ers/Ravens
What in the F was that from Buffalo?
Wow.
This game got weird fast.
Officially in bonkers status
Why you don't pound it with Pacheco there is ridiculous play calling.
I don't get that pass interference call.
Matt Nagy doing Matt Nagy things here in the 4th.
Whooooooooops. Wow.
Special teams.
Baltimore rolls next week
Woooooooooooooooof for Bills fans.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 21, 2024, 08:45:35 PM
Woooooooooooooooof for Bills fans.
The post 2012 Packers of the AFC?
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 21, 2024, 08:47:53 PM
The post 2012 Packers of the AFC?
I mean, it goes back 30+ years
That said, watching grown men lose their bleep over Taylor Swift for another week will be humorous
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 21, 2024, 08:51:20 PM
I mean, it goes back 30+ years
That said, watching grown men lose their bleep over Taylor Swift for another week will be humorous
True, focused mainly on Josh Allen era brutal loss after brutal loss
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on January 21, 2024, 08:52:04 PM
True, focused mainly on Josh Allen era brutal loss after brutal loss
I'm not sure what they do. That roster is kind of shambolic with where the money is. Might need a reboot
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 21, 2024, 08:53:48 PM
I'm not sure what they do. That roster is kind of shambolic with where the money is. Might need a reboot
They have a rough offseason ahead with their cap situation.
Buffalo. Wide right.
Time is a flat circle
iykyk
Rewatching the Bills after the 2 minute warning, Allen really eff's over the Bills chances to at least tie that game. Ball is at the 26, 2nd & 9, Allen ignores a ridiculously wide open Diggs running a crossing pattern right in his line of sight. 3rd & 9 while scrambling, he has Kincaid open at the 20, short of the sticks, but a much better option than Allen chucking an uncatchable pass into the end zone.
Really poor decision making.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 21, 2024, 09:24:30 PM
Rewatching the Bills after the 2 minute warning, Allen really eff's over the Bills chances to at least tie that game. Ball is at the 26, 2nd & 9, Allen ignores a ridiculously wide open Diggs running a crossing pattern right in his line of sight. 3rd & 9 while scrambling, he has Kincaid open at the 20, short of the sticks, but a much better option than Allen chucking an uncatchable pass into the end zone.
Really poor decision making.
He was bad at the end, no question, but I saw replays of the 2nd and 9. His LT gets completely BLOWN UP by Chris Jones and gets pushed back into Allen like a blocking sled, which messed up the throw. Maybe he should have stepped up in the pocket and/or into the throw, but he was trying to get to Diggs on the cross across the middle right in the end zone but his line let him down a bit.
There's no way Buffalo cans McDermott...right? I know they've been successful, but McDermott doesn't seem widely liked, had some bad pub earlier this year, and it seems he's probably peaked there.
The Packers-Niners game on NBC averaged 37.5 million viewers, making it the most-watched Saturday TV broadcast since the Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding-fueled 1994 Olympics.
The NFL continues to be doomed.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 21, 2024, 09:00:13 PM
They have a rough offseason ahead with their cap situation.
Just read that Allen's cap hit goes from 18mm up to 47mm last year.
Sportscenter also showed their current projected cap room for next year is at -50 million.
Purdy vs The Packers prior to the final drive....
Wet ball or not great? He made some dreadful throws.
The Packers play is the only thing giving me hope against the 49ers.
The last time Goff threw outdoors was against the Bears.
The last time the Detroit secondary stopped anybody was against the Raiders.
Can Detroit replicate what the Packers did for 3 quarters? Mess up Purdy and run the ball.
Purdy isn't very good. Debo and CMC are great.
Due to injuries, Lions signing Zach Ertz for the SF game.
Quote from: tower912 on January 22, 2024, 10:20:33 AM
Purdy vs The Packers prior to the final drive....
Wet ball or not great? He made some dreadful throws.
The Packers play is the only thing giving me hope against the 49ers.
The last time Goff threw outdoors was against the Bears.
The last time the Detroit secondary stopped anybody was against the Raiders.
Can Detroit replicate what the Packers did for 3 quarters? Mess up Purdy and run the ball.
Need to get home against Purdy. Packers played their safeties deep late and paid the price. Tons of playmakers in SF but Coach seems to turtle at times.
49ers secondary is their week spot and they over pursue. Packers beat them with Jones and misdirection. 49ers do tackle well and the LBs are really good. Offense needs to be creative against them
Quote from: MUBurrow on January 21, 2024, 10:40:13 PM
There's no way Buffalo cans McDermott...right? I know they've been successful, but McDermott doesn't seem widely liked, had some bad pub earlier this year, and it seems he's probably peaked there.
How stunning would it be if McDermott is shown the door? He's been a good coach (if the playoffs aren't included - a big freakin' "if"), and he'd get hired again by somebody, but one could see the Bills' brass thinking that maybe just a new voice is needed.
Would kind of remind me of the way the Bulls canned Doug Collins. They had become a successful regular-season team with a superstar athlete and other nice pieces, but they were just missing something.
Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2024, 03:09:36 PM
How stunning would it be if McDermott is shown the door? He's been a good coach (if the playoffs aren't included - a big freakin' "if"), and he'd get hired again by somebody, but one could see the Bills' brass thinking that maybe just a new voice is needed.
Would kind of remind me of the way the Bulls canned Doug Collins. They had become a successful regular-season team with a superstar athlete and other nice pieces, but they were just missing something.
Bill Belichick in Buffalo would be wild
Quote from: MU82 on January 22, 2024, 03:09:36 PM
How stunning would it be if McDermott is shown the door? He's been a good coach (if the playoffs aren't included - a big freakin' "if"), and he'd get hired again by somebody, but one could see the Bills' brass thinking that maybe just a new voice is needed.
Would kind of remind me of the way the Bulls canned Doug Collins. They had become a successful regular-season team with a superstar athlete and other nice pieces, but they were just missing something.
I don't know if I buy this thinking. It's like saying that Jerry Sloan was a good coach if you don't count the Playoffs.
Not beating Jordan or Mahomes does not make someone bad.
Some crazy perspective on Mahomes' greatness from Yahoo Sports:
The AFC Championship will be Patrick Mahomes' 17th playoff game. Now that he has almost a full regular season's worth of experience, it's easier to visualize just how dominant he's been.
How he compares: Mahomes, 28, has played in nearly as many playoff games (16) as Jared Goff, Lamar Jackson and Brock Purdy, combined (17).
Mahomes (16 games): 13-3, 4,561 passing yards, 38 TD, 7 INT, 66.8% CMP, 106.7 RTG; 443 rush yards, 5 TD
Goff (8 games): 5-3, 1,864 passing yards, 7 TD, 2 INT, 61.8% CMP, 88.3 RTG; 35 rush yards
Jackson (5 games): 2-3, 1,052 passing yards, 5 TD, 5 INT, 58.2% CMP, 75.7 RTG; 467 rush yards, 3 TD
Purdy (4 games): 3-1, 821 passing yards, 4 TD, 0 INT, 62.8% CMP, 101.0 RTG; 38 rush yards, TD
By the numbers: Mahomes' 13 playoff wins are more than the Texans (5), Cardinals (7), Jaguars (8), Panthers (9), Lions (9), Bengals (10), Falcons (10), Saints (10), Bucs (12), Browns (12), Chargers (12) and Jets (12).
He's averaged 285 passing yards per game, which would have led all QBs this season (min. 10 games).
His 38 playoff passing TDs already rank sixth all-time, and are the most ever through 16 games.
He has twice as many playoff games with 3+ passing TDs (8) as he does playoff games with an interception (4).
His 66.8% completion rate and 106.7 passer rating are both better than his regular-season numbers (66.5%, 103.5), which rank second and ninth all-time.
He's even added 443 rushing yards and five rushing scores in his 16 playoff games, which would both be the best single-season marks of his career.
The bottom line: Mahomes' first six regular seasons as an NFL starter are unparalleled — and he gets even better when the postseason arrives.
Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2024, 10:06:01 AM
Some crazy perspective on Mahomes' greatness from Yahoo Sports...
It is obviously a reflection of the Chiefs' greatness as well as Mahomes', but I was amazed Sunday when they mentioned that it was Mahomes' first road playoff game. Damn...the Chiefs have had a fantastic run.
File this away for the NFL is doomed crowd and the morons that say Taylor Swift is driving people away from watching
https://x.com/benfischersbj/status/1749811145563918618?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Amused to see Tom Watson, the golfer, suggest Travis Kelce needed to focus more on catching passes. Seems to be doing fine in all regards
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 23, 2024, 10:50:52 AM
File this away for the NFL is doomed crowd and the morons that say Taylor Swift is driving people away from watching
https://x.com/benfischersbj/status/1749811145563918618?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
Amused to see Tom Watson, the golfer, suggest Travis Kelce needed to focus more on catching passes. Seems to be doing fine in all regards
A woman AND a lib? Of course they are upset. It could only get worse if she were a handicapped minority.
Ravens 27 Chiefs 23
49ers 34 Lions 30
Obviously, Taylor Swift has taken away Kelce's toughness and ability.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 02:15:29 PM
Obviously, Taylor Swift has taken away Kelce's toughness and ability.
Time for a social media check to hear from all the people that have stopped watching the NFL because of Kelce and Swift
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 02:17:13 PM
Time for a social media check to hear from all the people that claim to have stopped watching the NFL because of Kelce and Swift
FIFY
I thought Lamar could've taken that to the house. Did he let up to save stamina?
Fun game so far, including two ballsy 4th-down decisions (especially Harbaugh's).
Joe Barry is impressed with the Ravens defense's inability to get off the field today.
The Bears shoulda hired someone from the Ravens to teach Justin Fields to do the Lamar kind of quarterbacking
Update: he's got one half of it down already
Update update: nevermind
KC fails to score on the TO it caused. Big stops on two short-yardage plays by the Ravens.
Jackson just made an incredible 13-yard catch of his own pass. Took it right away from the DB after it had been tipped at the line of scrimmage. What an athlete.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 03:02:34 PM
Jackson just made an incredible 13-yard catch of his own pass. Took it right away from the DB after it had been tipped at the line of scrimmage. What an athlete.
Does that count as a completed pass and reception?
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 03:03:22 PM
Does that count as a completed pass and reception?
Yes
Chris Jones is fun to watch
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 03:03:22 PM
Does that count as a completed pass and reception?
Proof he should be switched to WR
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2024, 03:05:03 PM
Proof he should be switched to WR
Mike Francesa finally exonerated
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 03:05:54 PM
Mike Francesa finally exonerated
Wasn't it (super bowl winning GM) Bill Polian?
I don't really understand what Baltimore is trying to do on offense.
Not a good series for Trey Smith
(https://media.tenor.com/n9ePn96DSKcAAAAM/breakinglaw-jim.gif)
Nice d!ck drawing by Romo
Big opportunity for Lamar to cement his place in the NFL if he can comeback and get a W here.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 03:40:37 PM
Big opportunity for Lamar to cement his place in the NFL if he can comeback and get a W here.
So far, so bad.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 03:59:55 PM
So far, so bad.
Looking more like Rodgers than Mahomes today
Who knew blitzes were a good thing?
After a great start for both offenses, it has become a total defensive battle. But KC has the 10-point lead, the rain is coming down, and it's gonna be a tough (though not impossible) comeback for Baltimore.
Not sure why Baltimore has completely abandoned the run game.
Wow.
So many dumb penalties by the ravens today
Thank god that was recovered in the end zone by the Chiefs and not dibbled OOB. The playoffs doesn't need another pivotal fumble touchback play
Related, I can't fathom how bad the Chiefs offense has been in the second half all year. I don't think any team in history has scored 25/30+ points in a game with single digit scoring second halves than this Chiefs team
Lamar ain't having a good day
Wow, what an awful performance from Baltimore.
This entire half has been panic by the Ravens.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 04:43:50 PM
Lamar ain't having a good day
Yup. Going to be a LONG off-season hearing a lot of negativity.
I love watching Mahomes play. We're lucky to have been able to watch such a talented QB, who plays such an exciting brand of football. So I'm not upset at all that he and the Chiefs will be in the Super Bowl again.
But I also like seeing new blood, and I felt that Jackson got a bit of a bad rap, so I was hoping he'd have a great game and lead the Ravens to the SB.
Alas, as Unk said, he's been bad today. And he capped it with a horrendous interception in the EZ with the Ravens already all but guaranteed a FG that would have brought them within 7. Ugh.
Fun fact: A group of Ravens is an unkindness. Ravens are also smart as hell and can mimic human voices and recognize faces. This permoance by Baltimore was an insult to the great Raven population.
I thought Baltimore was the best team I had seen this season. And the narrative was that Mahomes was not performing at his historically high level. Damn and wow.
Chiefs: Here, get yourself back in the game.
Ravens: Nah, we're good.
Ravens defense made nice adjustments and have flummoxed KC in the 2nd half. Too bad the offense hasn't capitalized
Lamar running around the field for 15 seconds for 3-5 yard gains to be tackled in bounds isn't ideal either, when you're down 10 and 3-4 minutes left.
Quote from: withoutbias on January 28, 2024, 05:00:07 PM
Lamar running around the field for 15 seconds for 3-5 yard gains to be tackled in bounds isn't ideal either, when you're down 10 and 3-4 minutes left.
Way too indecisive
How, in the name of all that is holy, can you send too many defenders out on the first play down a touchdown with 2:34 left?
Good lord. This has been a dumb performance by Baltimore.
M
V
S
Calling their last timeout before the two minute warning on 3rd down was incredibly dumb. Gave the Chiefs every reason to throw there.
Get your Covid boosters and get ready to party with Taylor Swift at the Super Bowl
Mahomes six years as a starter:
4 Super Bowls
2 AFC Championship games (both losses in OT)
Incredible.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 28, 2024, 05:13:50 PM
Mahomes six years as a starter:
4 Super Bowls
2 AFC Championship games (both losses in OT)
Incredible.
But the Bears took Trumisky.
Can't help but wonder what could have been. The Packers should have beat the 49ers.
I would have liked their matchup with both the Lions and Chiefs.
Quote from: forgetful on January 28, 2024, 05:23:14 PM
Can't help but wonder what could have been. The Packers should have beat the 49ers.
I would have liked their matchup with both the Lions and Chiefs.
For 3 quarters, the better team. Two big mistakes.
Hello, Detroit
No shutout!
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 05:45:08 PM
Hello, Detroit
It would be great if they could pull this off.
Wide right!
Nice kick, Anders.
Both NFC teams are happy Baltimore lost. The Ravens smoked them both.
Lions doing what the Packers couldn't do and finding the end zone to start the game
Wow.
I'm not enjoying this game
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2024, 06:16:58 PM
I'm not enjoying this game
Why not? Detroit may need 35 pts to have a shot.
What a stupid penalty.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 06:02:03 PM
Both NFC teams are happy Baltimore lost. The Ravens smoked them both.
They were smoked by a much better Ravens team than the one that showed up today.
Packers spammed that run play over and over and just not enough apparently
Nice!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2024, 06:40:18 PM
They were smoked by a much better Ravens team than the one that showed up today.
Yes. Or....... KC in the playoffs.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2024, 06:41:19 PM
Packers spammed that run play over and over and just not enough apparently
49ers over pursue and have some loafers on the d-line. Chase Young is bad
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 06:46:48 PM
49ers over pursue and have some loafers on the d-line. Chase Young is bad
Young has cost himself a ton of money the last two weeks. He's been brutal.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 28, 2024, 06:48:10 PM
Young has cost himself a ton of money the last two weeks. He's been brutal.
Really hammers home how the Packers had the game plan in place to win last week. Not one of MLF's better play-calling days
Love had a great second half of the season. If Love doesn't throw two picks in the 4th, GB wins. Not MLF's fault.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 06:57:02 PM
Love had a great second half of the season. If Love doesn't throw two picks in the 4th, GB wins. Not MLF's fault.
It was a lot of things that lost that game. Can't have all the mistakes they had and expect to win
This is a total a$$ kicking.
Alright I'm calling it. Go chiefs
Wilks isn't going himself any favors either.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 28, 2024, 07:01:13 PM
This is a total a$$ kicking.
Lions dominating the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.
All MidWest Super Bowl?? 8-)
Kirk Cousins is going to make so much money
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 04:51:59 PM
Fun fact: A group of Ravens is an unkindness. Ravens are also smart as hell and can mimic human voices and recognize faces. This permoance by Baltimore was an insult to the great Raven population.
Named in honor of Baltimore famous citizen, Edgar Allan Poe.
Sometimes, it just takes a single dropped pass.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 07:41:38 PM
Sometimes, it just takes a single dropped pass.
Why wouldn't they kick a 45 yrd FG up by two touchdowns?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2024, 07:38:48 PM
Named in honor of Baltimore famous citizen, Edgar Allan Poe.
E.A.P. is a legend Dr. B.
Holy crap.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 07:42:43 PM
Why wouldn't they kick a 45 yrd FG up by two touchdowns?
Yeah, make the kick and it's a 3-score game. I'm sure analytics say otherwise but staying up 3 possessions seems better to me
Lions gonna Lions
I smell a.pick 6
So close.
Uh oh...
Rut roh
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 07:49:04 PM
Yeah, make the kick and it's a 3-score game. I'm sure analytics say otherwise but staying up 3 possessions seems better to me
I thought it was a good decision. A 45-yarder isn't automatic. They're great on 4th down, and it fits what they've done all season. It was a perfectly good pass that the WR should have caught. You miss the FG and give SF the ball at the 35, and it's "Why isn't Campbell doing what got him here?"
But sure, in hindsight, it looks bad. And now with that Gibbs fumble the Lions are in some trouble.
Wow, this happened really fast.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 07:53:31 PM
I thought it was a good decision. A 45-yarder isn't automatic. They're great on 4th down, and it fits what they've done all season. It was a perfectly good pass that the WR should have caught. You miss the FG and give SF the ball at the 35, and it's "Why isn't Campbell doing what got him here?"
But sure, in hindsight, it looks bad. And now with that Gibbs fumble the Lions are in some trouble.
I'm completely lost on that decision. Especially on the road and 17 vs 21.
Quiet the shift. Should be a great finish.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 07:56:22 PM
I'm completely lost on that decision. Especially on the road and 17 vs 21.
They've done that stuff all year. They weren't going to change now.
Quote from: MuggsyB on January 28, 2024, 07:56:22 PM
I'm completely lost on that decision. Especially on the road and 17 vs 21.
Easy to say now. Go against everything Campbell has done all year and miss that 45-yard FG, and who knows what tune you'd be singing.
Pressure doesn't start till the back 9, Sunday at the Masters.
Packers felt it. Now Detroit.
Huh
Reynolds gets the trophy as Least Valuable Player.
Those 3 drops and not downing that punt may be the game. Wow.
Detroit has been abysmal in the third quarter most of the season. Look for the graphic out.of the commercial.
Both teams need to go back to their 1957 logos.
A whole season's worth of lions bad luck coming home to roost
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 08:04:28 PM
Detroit has been abysmal in the third quarter most of the season. Look for the graphic out.of the commercial.
What's your game recap thread title going to be on LionsScoop?
Big to hold them to a FG there
Twas
Should have been 15 for that hit on Purdy.
That play might have saved the season for Detroit.
Huh...
Serves Detroit right. Got gutsy without the QB to make plays off rhythm
Does Campbell think he has the Packers kicker?
Nope. Detroit found a way to overcome the really good play by Williams.
Justin Fields against Detroit-esque
Boo
I said Detroit needed 35.
https://twitter.com/WerderEdESPN/status/1751795476817473626?t=JDHldeE8SQhDTRLgflHx0g&s=19
QuotePer @ESPNStatsInfo: The Lions have failed twice on 4th down in the 2nd half. Both were considered toss-ups according to ESPN's model, but leaned very slightly towards going for it.
3rd quarter, 7:03
WP go: 90.5%
WP FG: 90.3%
4th quarter, 7:38
WP go: 39.1%
WP FG: 38.8%
It was a fun run, a fun season. They had been successful on 4th down so often. Alas, at the end, they were still the Lions.
Seriously, though, the talking heads are going to deep dive on the Lions third quarter issues most of the season.
Apparently, Detroit needed to get to 35.
Hmm...
Running it???
Bizarre coaching by Lions this half
Oh, yes, there will be discussions about coaching choices. There always are when you blow a big lead
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 08:44:12 PM
Oh, yes, there will be discussions about coaching choices. There always are when you blow a big lead
There's no excuse in that situation. The downside of running the ball means, best case, you get the ball under 10 seconds. As opposed to 40.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2024, 08:46:12 PM
There's no excuse in that situation. The downside of running the ball means, best case, you get the ball under 10 seconds. As opposed to 40.
Simply awful. Can't run it there
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 08:47:05 PM
Simply awful. Can't run it there
Ben Johnson looking to get out to his HC gig?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 28, 2024, 08:47:05 PM
Simply awful. Can't run it there
You can run it. You just can't use a TO
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 08:34:24 PM
Apparently, Detroit needed to get to 35.
They had it in their pocket but their head coach got greedy.
I was curious if Campbell would change in a big game. He didn't. Didn't trust his defense. He put it in the hands of his QB. One dropped pass and everything changed. As I said at the time. Alas.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2024, 07:31:18 PM
Kirk Cousins is going to make so much money
Give Brock Purdy all of this money please
This super bowl is the perfect comparison of the way to succeed in the NFL - franchise QB who uses the majority of your cap space vs team with a QB on rookie deal surrounded by all pros
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 28, 2024, 08:57:58 PM
This super bowl is the perfect comparison of the way to succeed in the NFL - franchise QB who uses the majority of your cap space vs team with a QB on rookie deal surrounded by all pros
It's not really a comparison. It's a validation that either way can work.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 08:54:51 PM
I was curious if Campbell would change in a big game. He didn't. Didn't trust his defense. He put it in the hands of his QB. One dropped pass and everything changed. As I said at the time. Alas.
Well he kicked a FG on 4th and goal from the 3 (smart move). Then he (dumb move) didn't take 6 free points in the 2nd half and lost by 3.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 08:54:51 PM
I was curious if Campbell would change in a big game. He didn't. Didn't trust his defense. He put it in the hands of his QB. One dropped pass and everything changed. As I said at the time. Alas.
Yep.
The dropped passes (including 2 huge ones by Reynolds), the Gibbs fumble and Detroit not being able to stop the SF offense in the second half were the things that cost the Lions the game.
I still have no problem with Campbell rejecting two 45-plus-yard FG attempts to go for it on 4th-and-short like he has a bazillion times this season, usually with great success.
The run play with a minute to go was 1,000 times worse call than those 4th-down decisions, and I assume that was made by the OC. Hopefully not a preview of the kind of decisions he'll make as Washington's HC.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2024, 09:01:29 PM
Well he kicked a FG on 4th and goal from the 3 (smart move). Then he (dumb move) didn't take 6 free points in the 2nd half and lost by 3.
I don't think you can call 40+ yard field goals "free."
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 28, 2024, 09:02:54 PM
I don't think you can call 40+ yard field goals "free."
Not the way the kickers have kicked in the postseason.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2024, 09:01:29 PM
Well he kicked a FG on 4th and goal from the 3 (smart move). Then he (dumb move) didn't take 6 free points in the 2nd half and lost by 3.
Free?
I would like to petition for all NFL games (and really all sporting events, but I can't be greedy) to conclude by 9pm CST
Tell me you are old without telling me you are old.
But I will make my nearly annual proposal to move the Super Bowl to Saturday.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 28, 2024, 09:06:20 PM
Free?
Nothing is 100%. Guys can choke. But this wasn't cold, windy Buffalo. Good conditions, almost no wind. Those kicks in the NFL are VERY HIGH %. If the guy who would make around 90% hits 1of 2 you've likely got OT. Makes both and the Lions are probably in the Super Bowl. Too bad. They were a great story and, for this year anyway, America's team.
The first Lions drive in the second half was ultimately the turning point. Detroit's up 14, third quarter is already more than halfway over during that drive.
Reynolds had to catch that ball, and not kicking there are both troubling. But not running it on 4th & 2 is probably going to be overlooked. Montgomery had three runs on that drive, for 6, 7, and 5. For some reason on 3rd & 4 they ran with St. Brown instead of Gibbs or Montgomery, and gained two yards to set up 4th & 2.
That won't be discussed tomorrow by all the talking heads, but that playcalling definitely impacted the outcome of this game.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2024, 09:25:49 PM
Nothing is 100%. Guys can choke. But this wasn't cold, windy Buffalo. Good conditions, almost no wind. Those kicks in the NFL are VERY HIGH %. If the guy who would make around 90% hits 1of 2 you've likely got OT. Makes both and the Lions are probably in the Super Bowl. Too bad. They were a great story and, for this year anyway, America's team.
This is a leap. The entire game might have been played differently if one or both of those kicks had been made, and even if one or both had missed.
For example, San Fran likely would have played different defense if they were up only 4 or 7 vs being up 10. Maybe the pressure would have gotten to Detroit. Or not. We'll never know.
Assuming a 48-yard FG attempt would be more likely to succeed than the kind of short 4th-down play the Lions have succeeded on all season is also a leap.
One thing is certain: Had Campbell opted for the FGs instead of going for it on 4th down, and had the FGs missed or been blocked, he would have never heard the end of, "Why go away from something that worked all season?!?!?"
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 09:32:57 PM
This is a leap. The entire game might have been played differently if one or both of those kicks had been made, and even if one or both had missed.
For example, San Fran likely would have played different defense if they were up only 4 or 7 vs being up 10. Maybe the pressure would have gotten to Detroit. Or not. We'll never know.
Assuming a 48-yard FG attempt would be more likely to succeed than the kind of short 4th-down play the Lions have succeeded on all season is also a leap.
One thing is certain: Had Campbell opted for the FGs instead of going for it on 4th down, and had the FGs missed or been blocked, he would have never heard the end of, "Why go away from something that worked all season?!?!?"
That said, the cumulative effect of his decisions were all bad. He got every one wrong. Game theory fail.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2024, 09:37:41 PM
That said, the cumulative effect of his decisions were all bad. He got every one wrong. Game theory fail.
The decision that likely most impacted win % was the timeout after the run play down 10. Way more than any of the 4th downs
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2024, 09:37:41 PM
That said, the cumulative effect of his decisions were all bad. He got every one wrong. Game theory fail.
Yes, if one takes advantage of hindsight to focus on results, it certainly was a failure.
If Reynolds catches the 4th-down pass that hits him right in the hands - a catch NFL receivers have to make - Detroit probably wins the game. If he catches the incredibly easy 3rd-down pass that went right through his hands and off his body - a catch NFL receivers make 99.7% of the time - Detroit quite possibly wins the game.
But if folks want to put the blame on Campbell for making the exact same kind of decisions he has made all season - decisions that got the Lions to the NFC Championship Game - that's certainly their right. The decisions didn't work this time, and the Lions lost.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 28, 2024, 09:29:21 PM
The first Lions drive in the second half was ultimately the turning point. Detroit's up 14, third quarter is already more than halfway over during that drive.
And a FG gives them a 3 score lead with 22 minutes to play. Sure, a TD is better, but it's still only a 3 score lead. In that situation you have to take the points.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 09:47:01 PM
Yes, if one takes advantage of hindsight to focus on results, it certainly was a failure.
If Reynolds catches the 4th-down pass that hits him right in the hands - a catch NFL receivers have to make - Detroit probably wins the game. If he catches the incredibly easy 3rd-down pass that went right through his hands and off his body - a catch NFL receivers make 99.7% of the time - Detroit quite possibly wins the game.
But if folks want to put the blame on Campbell for making the exact same kind of decisions he has made all season - decisions that got the Lions to the NFC Championship Game - that's certainly their right. The decisions didn't work this time, and the Lions lost.
Again, it wasn't just one play or drop. It's lack of considering the element of time and the lead. Go for it on one occasion, kick the FG on the other. Or better yet, punt the ball on the first possession which may have been the best odds with that lead. The goal line run was idiotic use of time. Again, gut versus game theory but the ego won this time. The buck stops with the coach.
And btw, the biggest drop was Kindle Vildor's.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 28, 2024, 09:56:34 PM
Again, it wasn't just one play or drop. It's lack of considering the element of time and the lead. Go for it on one occasion, kick the FG on the other. Or better yet, punt the ball on the first possession which may have been the best odds with that lead. The goal line run was idiotic use of time. Again, gut versus game theory but the ego won this time. The buck stops with the coach.
And btw, the biggest drop was Kindle Vildor's.
Reasonable post, even though we disagree on some of the particulars. Have a good one.
One other thing that's interesting for the criticism Campbell is receiving. The one time tonight he went conservative tonight, possibly may have backfired on him.
End of the first half, 4th & goal from the SF three, and the Lions kick the FG there. I don't necessarily blame Campbell for doing that, but going up 21 instead of 17 is significant.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 09:17:19 PM
Tell me you are old without telling me you are old.
But I will make my nearly annual proposal to move the Super Bowl to Saturday.
I don't understand why this isn't a thing.
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 09:47:01 PM
But if folks want to put the blame on Campbell for making the exact same kind of decisions he has made all season - decisions that got the Lions to the NFC Championship Game - that's certainly their right. The decisions didn't work this time, and the Lions lost.
Is there any way of knowing this to be true, i.e. that the Lions got to the NFC Championship game because they were aggressive on 4th down?
Quote from: DegenerateDish on January 28, 2024, 10:09:16 PM
One other thing that's interesting for the criticism Campbell is receiving. The one time tonight he went conservative tonight, possibly may have backfired on him.
End of the first half, 4th & goal from the SF three, and the Lions kick the FG there. I don't necessarily blame Campbell for doing that, but going up 21 instead of 17 is significant.
It was a chip-shot FG and it was 3 full yards. I wouldn't have blamed him for going for it, but it's a lot easier decision to kick the chip shot when you're already up two scores than to assume your kicker is gonna make a 48-yarder later. IMHO, anyway (and obviously in Campbell's honest opinion, too).
I seriously agreed with all 3 decisions in real time, Dish. I guess that makes me as bad an NFL coach as Campbell!
Quote from: Pakuni on January 28, 2024, 10:35:41 PM
Is there any way of knowing this to be true, i.e. that the Lions got to the NFC Championship game because they were aggressive on 4th down?
I suppose not, but it did become the coach's credo and part of the team's identity. It's a "dance with the one who brung ya" thing. Is that better?
Quote from: MU82 on January 28, 2024, 10:38:47 PM
I suppose not, but it did become the coach's credo and part of the team's identity. It's a "dance with the one who brung ya" thing. Is that better?
No,, that's actually much worse. If the argument is "It was the right call to go for it for it because that's what they do" then that would be a foolish.
A coach has to consider the circumstances - the score, time on the clock, how his team is playing, how the other team is playing, etc. - when making those calls and adjust accordingly. And all the circumstances tonight seemed to point toward taking the points.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it cost the Lions the game - there were plenty of other key plays that just as easily could have turned the game the other way - but they weren't great decisions.
FWIW, my question wasn't intended as rhetorical or snarky. I just wondered if there was any evidence the Lions won more because of their fourth down aggressiveness or it that's more correlation than causation.
I have no idea if such stats exist, Pak.
Otherwise, we'll agree to disagree on the decisions. Have a good night.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 28, 2024, 09:49:04 PM
And a FG gives them a 3 score lead with 22 minutes to play. Sure, a TD is better, but it's still only a 3 score lead. In that situation you have to take the points.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. You are playing against the clock as much as anything (especially in a playoff game). 49ers opening drive in the second half netted 3 points and the Lions had the opportunity to neutralize that with their own field goal and still have a 3 score lead. That keeps a lot of pressure on the 49ers. That was a terrible decision and the game unraveled from there. It was doubly surprising since Campbell was smart to take the 3 points at the end of the half.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on January 28, 2024, 08:53:01 PM
Nice
Thanks. Luckily, as a Christian, I don't gamble and just pick scores for fun.
Quote from: #UnleashSean on January 28, 2024, 10:32:44 PM
I don't understand why this isn't a thing.
Sponsor hype extended, Sunday ratings devotion.
People are way more likely to be busy with other things on a Saturday than they would be late afternoon on Sunday.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 06:09:31 AM
Thanks. Luckily, as a Christian, I don't gamble and just pick scores for fun.
Word
Saw this stat posted on X-twit. (I never heard of the person who posted it, nor do I know if it's correct):
Before tonight, the Lions went for it on fourth-and-3 or less in plus territory 20 times in 24 opportunities, and converted on 17 of 20 (15-18 regular season, 2-2 playoffs.)
https://twitter.com/jadubin5/status/1751815428660228135?s=46&t=o_YcooE_NLDk6nCdvDo7Hw&.tsrc=1317
That's 85%.
I then looked up the success rate of Detroit K Michael Badgley from 40-49 yards in his very well-traveled career: 37 of 48.
That's 77.1%.
I obviously get the arguments from both sides, and the results say Campbell was wrong. Had the 4th-down plays succeeded - as they did 85% of the time for Detroit this season - he'd have been right. Had he gone for FGs instead and Badgley missed them, Campbell would have been wrong. Had one of the FG attempts been blocked and returned for a TD, Campbell would have been insane.
It's a results business.
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 08:30:49 AM
Saw this stat posted on X-twit. (I never heard of the person who posted it, nor do I know if it's correct):
Before tonight, the Lions went for it on fourth-and-3 or less in plus territory 20 times in 24 opportunities, and converted on 17 of 20 (15-18 regular season, 2-2 playoffs.)
https://twitter.com/jadubin5/status/1751815428660228135?s=46&t=o_YcooE_NLDk6nCdvDo7Hw&.tsrc=1317
That's 85%.
I then looked up the success rate of Detroit K Michael Badgley from 40-49 yards in his very well-traveled career: 37 of 48.
That's 77.1%.
I obviously get the arguments from both sides, and the results say Campbell was wrong. Had the 4th-down plays succeeded - as they did 85% of the time for Detroit this season - he'd have been right. Had he gone for FGs instead and Badgley missed them, Campbell would have been wrong. Had one of the FG attempts been blocked and returned for a TD, Campbell would have been insane.
It's a results business.
And a punt inside the 10 would have resulted in a 90%+ success rate for the Lions (no FG or TD for the Niners). With that lead in the 2nd half, that is not much confidence in his defense who helped build that lead.
http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2009/01/drive-results.html?m=1
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 29, 2024, 08:43:50 AM
And a punt inside the 10 would have resulted in a 90%+ success rate for the Lions (no FG or TD for the Niners). With that lead in the 2nd half, that is not much confidence in his defense who helped build that lead.
http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2009/01/drive-results.html?m=1
I doubt he considered punting from the 30-yard line but maybe he should have. However, I think you're right about him not having much confidence in his defense. He mentioned at his press conference that he was afraid that if he kicked the tying FG the 49ers might run out the clock before winning right at the end.
P33 down the leg. Sorry 4 tower
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 29, 2024, 07:47:18 AM
People are way more likely to be busy with other things on a Saturday than they would be late afternoon on Sunday.
I imagine the league's long-term goal is to extend the playoffs or regular season another week, moving the Super Bowl back another week and making it a part of the Presidents' Day weekend.
Since the Seattle loss where Campbell played for the tie in regulation and then lost in overtime every single time that it came down to a choice between trusting his offense to make a play (ice the game, play for a win vs a tie) versus trusting his defense to get a stop, Campbell chose his offense. The analytics and his history were on his side. Alas.
He probably regrets kicking the field goal at the end of the half more than he does his fourth down choices.
This is obviously completely qualitative, but I think a big reason for the Lions success was the culture, indentity, and swagger that Campbell brought and instilled. A big help in getting past the stigma of being the Lions and their past failures, IMO, was the hard charging aggressive style he brought and cultivated.
So while there may not be specific analytics to suggest their 4th down strategy brought X amount of wins, I think its not crazy to suggest that Campbell's mentality and approach to things like that are a reason for their success and big leap.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 29, 2024, 09:10:36 AM
This is obviously completely qualitative, but I think a big reason for the Lions success was the culture, indentity, and swagger that Campbell brought and instilled. A big help in getting past the stigma of being the Lions and their past failures, IMO, was the hard charging aggressive style he brought and cultivated.
Also, lots of close wins & playing mediocre to weak teams
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 08:30:49 AM
Saw this stat posted on X-twit. (I never heard of the person who posted it, nor do I know if it's correct):
Before tonight, the Lions went for it on fourth-and-3 or less in plus territory 20 times in 24 opportunities, and converted on 17 of 20 (15-18 regular season, 2-2 playoffs.)
https://twitter.com/jadubin5/status/1751815428660228135?s=46&t=o_YcooE_NLDk6nCdvDo7Hw&.tsrc=1317
That's 85%.
I then looked up the success rate of Detroit K Michael Badgley from 40-49 yards in his very well-traveled career: 37 of 48.
That's 77.1%.
I obviously get the arguments from both sides, and the results say Campbell was wrong. Had the 4th-down plays succeeded - as they did 85% of the time for Detroit this season - he'd have been right. Had he gone for FGs instead and Badgley missed them, Campbell would have been wrong. Had one of the FG attempts been blocked and returned for a TD, Campbell would have been insane.
It's a results business.
How many of those times was it 4th and less than a yard? 4th and 1? 4th and 1 and a half? Etc. Those are very much different than 4th and 3. And going up against Atlanta or San Diego or whoever in a regular season game is much different than going up against SF on the road in a win or go home game.
Badgley's success rate 5 or 6 years ago from 40-49 yards is immaterial- how's he been lately? And nobody says Campbell's an idiot if a FG is blocked and returned for a TD - that's no more his fault than a fumble or a pick 6.
Bottom line - Campbell faced 4th and 3 in the scoring zone 3 times yesterday.once he kicked and got 3 points. Twice he went for it and got zero. And he lost the game by 3.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 29, 2024, 09:13:57 AM
Also, lots of close wins & playing mediocre to weak teams
Yes. I enjoyed the season. A lot of fun. But there were several things Detroit managed to paper over that came home to roost at a bad time.
1. Their secondary.
2. Inability to contain scrambling QBs.
3. Their third quarter swoons.
4. Jared Goff doesn't make plays on the move.
5. Ben Johnson, for his genius, had some odd stretches of play calling.
I see this Lion season as akin to the 22-23 MU hoops season. A whole lot of things went right to create a very fun season with a disappointing ending. And, the next season will be tougher.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 29, 2024, 09:14:07 AM
How many of those times was it 4th and less than a yard? 4th and 1? 4th and 1 and a half? Etc. Those are very much different than 4th and 3. And going up against Atlanta or San Diego or whoever in a regular season game is much different than going up against SF on the road in a win or go home game.
Badgley's success rate 5 or 6 years ago from 40-49 yards is immaterial- how's he been lately? And nobody says Campbell's an idiot if a FG is blocked and returned for a TD - that's no more his fault than a fumble or a pick 6.
Bottom line - Campbell faced 4th and 3 in the scoring zone 3 times yesterday.once he kicked and got 3 points. Twice he went for it and got zero. And he lost the game by 3.
There you go again, assuming 45 and 48 yard FGs were gimmes for a vagabond kicker, and also believing that nothing else would have changed in the game had the Lions made those 2 FGs - that the Niners wouldn't have done anything different offensively or that the Lions wouldn't have done anything different defensively. But that's OK, it helps you make your case, so good on you.
I'll echo what tower and Wags said in their most recent posts. This is who the Lions are, this is how Campbell coaches. You and others thought he should have departed from what brought Detroit success all season ... and hey, in hindsight, you're right. So congrats.
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 08:30:49 AM
Saw this stat posted on X-twit. (I never heard of the person who posted it, nor do I know if it's correct):
Before tonight, the Lions went for it on fourth-and-3 or less in plus territory 20 times in 24 opportunities, and converted on 17 of 20 (15-18 regular season, 2-2 playoffs.)
https://twitter.com/jadubin5/status/1751815428660228135?s=46&t=o_YcooE_NLDk6nCdvDo7Hw&.tsrc=1317
That's 85%.
I then looked up the success rate of Detroit K Michael Badgley from 40-49 yards in his very well-traveled career: 37 of 48.
That's 77.1%.
I obviously get the arguments from both sides, and the results say Campbell was wrong. Had the 4th-down plays succeeded - as they did 85% of the time for Detroit this season - he'd have been right. Had he gone for FGs instead and Badgley missed them, Campbell would have been wrong. Had one of the FG attempts been blocked and returned for a TD, Campbell would have been insane.
It's a results business.
This is the weakness of being a slave to analytics. It fails to take into account game situations (aka the Brandon Staley Effect).
Going for it on 4th and inches at your opponents' 40 yard line when you're down 10 points at home in the fourth quarter is not the same thing as going on 4th and 2 on your opponents' 28 when you're up 14 points in the third quarter of a road playoff game. The figures above fail to take this into account.
A coach needs to be able to make situational judgements, not just do what a computer tells him to do or, worse yet, go for it because they go for it.
For what it's worth, over the past four seasons Badgley is 28/32 from 40-49, which is 87.5%.
Maybe the players should make the plays?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 09:35:52 AM
This is the weakness of being a slave to analytics. It fails to take into account game situations (aka the Brandon Staley Effect).
Going for it on 4th and inches at your opponents' 40 yard line when you're down 10 points at home in the fourth quarter is not the same thing as going on 4th and 2 on your opponents' 28 when you're up 14 points in the third quarter of a road playoff game. The figures above fail to take this into account.
A coach needs to be able to make situational judgements, not just do what a computer tells him to do or, worse yet, go for it because they go for it.
For what it's worth, over the past four seasons Badgley is 28/32 from 40-49, which is 87.5%.
Agree 100%. People saying "Campbell did what got him here" or something similar isn't really a compliment in my opinion.Coaches need to adjust.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 09:40:36 AM
Maybe the players should make the plays?
#coachingnomatta?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 09:50:19 AM
#coachingnomatta?
It does.
However, the coaches didn't fumble, drop multiple passes or have the Niners complete a circus catch to set up another TD.
I'm team FG in both instances. Make it 27-10 to make it 3 scores and put pressure on each Niner possession to produce points and make them go for it on 4th and medium. Tie the game because they had started to move the ball on the defense.
However, it's not just those FGs that cost the Lions this game.
I think the mindset of FGs not being able to beat the 49ers played a role. The Packers almost got away with it due to such a slow start from Purdy, but in the end, not getting TDs early on is what did them in.
If Reynolds catches that first 4th down play, then maybe we are talking about how Campbell is smart for not falling into the typical conservative play calling of NFL coaches.
Anyone concerned this will be the lowest rated Super Bowl ever? Between all the people that quit watching over Kaepernick and now Taylor Swift's BF playing in the game, a little concerned a lot of people will tune out and all the money spent on commercials will go to waste which will cause massive layoffs and and consumer confidence to crater
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 10:23:13 AM
Anyone concerned this will be the lowest rated Super Bowl ever? Between all the people that quit watching over Kaepernick and now Taylor Swift's BF playing in the game, a little concerned a lot of people will tune out and all the money spent on commercials will go to waste which will cause massive layoffs and and consumer confidence to crater
Sadly, the game already has been decided.
#nflrigged
On Monday morning, former presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy waded into the world of sports commentary by predicting that the upcoming Super Bowl between the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers would be rigged for the former in order to set the table for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's endorsement of President Joe Biden this fall.https://www.mediaite.com/news/vivek-ramaswamy-predicts-super-bowl-will-be-rigged-for-chiefs-to-set-the-table-for-artificially-propped-up-taylor-swifts-endorsement-of-biden/
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 10:15:42 AM
However, the coaches didn't fumble, drop multiple passes or have the Niners complete a circus catch to set up another TD.
I'm team FG in both instances. Make it 27-10 to make it 3 scores and put pressure on each Niner possession to produce points and make them go for it on 4th and medium. Tie the game because they had started to move the ball on the defense.
However, it's not just those FGs that cost the Lions this game.
That's all reasonable, Unk.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 29, 2024, 10:19:38 AM
I think the mindset of FGs not being able to beat the 49ers played a role. The Packers almost got away with it due to such a slow start from Purdy, but in the end, not getting TDs early on is what did them in.
If Reynolds catches that first 4th down play, then maybe we are talking about how Campbell is smart for not falling into the typical conservative play calling of NFL coaches.
Totally agree.
The game was interesting as it was. But to have all these decisions that had to be made, it really makes it fun to talk about. I totally get both sides of this.
Having seen the Packers settle for field goals in Playoff games only to lose heartbreakers because the defense couldn't get the ball back, I wish there was more Dan Campbell style strategy in the Packers postseasons of past.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 10:15:42 AM
It does.
However, the coaches didn't fumble, drop multiple passes or have the Niners complete a circus catch to set up another TD.
I'm team FG in both instances. Make it 27-10 to make it 3 scores and put pressure on each Niner possession to produce points and make them go for it on 4th and medium. Tie the game because they had started to move the ball on the defense.
However, it's not just those FGs that cost the Lions this game.
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1751805288775110954?t=0BLs3777I0nLa0aQB_cQhg&s=19
QuoteExpected points lost for DET:
Gibbs fumble: -5.5
Aiyuk reception off Vildor facemask: -3.3
Reynolds 4th down drop: -3.2
Incomplete to St. Brown on 4th and 3: -2.6
Even if we KNOW THE LIONS DIDN'T CONVERT, the failed 4th downs weren't as big of swings as the other plays.
https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1751795308751671490?t=bc0Is0urCtl2gQagL035RA&s=19
QuoteThis game's gonna set back the Fourth Down Revolution by like 3 years.
Yup
I kind of wonder what they would have called if Aiyuk didn't make that catch. I know they picked it up, but wonder if it was incomplete or intercepted, if they would have stuck with the call.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 10:26:48 AM
Sadly, the game already has been decided.
#nflrigged
On Monday morning, former presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy waded into the world of sports commentary by predicting that the upcoming Super Bowl between the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers would be rigged for the former in order to set the table for Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce's endorsement of President Joe Biden this fall.
https://www.mediaite.com/news/vivek-ramaswamy-predicts-super-bowl-will-be-rigged-for-chiefs-to-set-the-table-for-artificially-propped-up-taylor-swifts-endorsement-of-biden/
Remarkable how stupid the right wing nutjobs are and that's just the ones running for President.
Guess they have to cheer for San Francisco to preserve America
Now that is irony.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 29, 2024, 11:14:28 AM
https://twitter.com/BenjaminSolak/status/1751805288775110954?t=0BLs3777I0nLa0aQB_cQhg&s=19
Ben Solak = big Brandon Staley guy. (For real. Look it up)
I don't think anyone here is saying the fourth down decisions,
and only the fourth down decisions, cost the Lions the game. But you can't deny they reduced their chances of winning.
And this tweet is really kind of silly. You can do this with dozens of plays throughout the game, both ways. How many points did the 49ers lose/Lions gain when Purdy threw an INT inside his own 30? Or when he missed multiple open receivers in the first half? Or when half the Niners defense missed tackling Jameson Williams on the opening drive?
Interceptions, fumbles, drops, missed tackles, etc., are things that happen naturally during a game. You can't "control" it any more than Shaka can control whether Kolek is hitting threes. What you can control are coaching decisions. And the decisions made by Campbell and his staff in the second half last night lessened his team's chances of winning.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 11:58:35 AM
Ben Solak = big Brandon Staley guy. (For real. Look it up)
I don't think anyone here is saying the fourth down decisions, and only the fourth down decisions, cost the Lions the game. But you can't deny they reduced their chances of winning.
And this tweet is really kind of silly. You can do this with dozens of plays throughout the game, both ways. How many points did the 49ers lose/Lions gain when Purdy threw an INT inside his own 30? Or when he missed multiple open receivers in the first half? Or when half the Niners defense missed tackling Jameson Williams on the opening drive?
Interceptions, fumbles, drops, missed tackles, etc., are things that happen naturally during a game. You can't "control" it any more than Shaka can control whether Kolek is hitting threes. What you can control are coaching decisions. And the decisions made by Campbell and his staff in the second half last night lessened his team's chances of winning.
https://twitter.com/WerderEdESPN/status/1751795476817473626?t=bmtTE3tu07bUSXD7UpZOPg&s=19
QuotePer @ESPNStatsInfo: The Lions have failed twice on 4th down in the 2nd half. Both were considered toss-ups according to ESPN's model, but leaned very slightly towards going for it.
3rd quarter, 7:03
WP go: 90.5%
WP FG: 90.3%
4th quarter, 7:38
WP go: 39.1%
WP FG: 38.8%
I think we can all agree, whatever the Lions have been doing the last 60 plus years probably shouldn't have been changed
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 29, 2024, 12:07:26 PM
https://twitter.com/WerderEdESPN/status/1751795476817473626?t=bmtTE3tu07bUSXD7UpZOPg&s=19
This doesn't contradict what I said.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 29, 2024, 11:20:22 AM
I kind of wonder what they would have called if Aiyuk didn't make that catch. I know they picked it up, but wonder if it was incomplete or intercepted, if they would have stuck with the call.
Yep, having seen the replay 844 times like everyone else, I think it would have been a horrible interference call. But maybe they let it stand if the crazy play didn't ensue.
That play was amazing and huge, but I still think the Gibbs fumble was the biggest play of the game, followed closely by the two Reynolds drops.
The Niners had trouble stopping the Detroit offense all night. The game was decided by the 3 occasions that the Lions stopped themselves IMHO.
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 02:26:13 PM
Yep, having seen the replay 844 times like everyone else, I think it would have been a horrible interference call. But maybe they let it stand if the crazy play didn't ensue.
That play was amazing and huge, but I still think the Gibbs fumble was the biggest play of the game, followed closely by the two Reynolds drops.
The Niners had trouble stopping the Detroit offense all night. The game was decided by the 3 occasions that the Lions stopped themselves IMHO.
Detroit still had a chance after all of that until they called a timeout before the TD
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 11:54:16 AM
Remarkable how stupid the right wing nutjobs are and that's just the ones running for President.
Guess they have to cheer for San Francisco to preserve America
Vivek ain't runnin 4 preZ
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 29, 2024, 03:43:51 PM
Vivek ain't runnin 4 preZ
He was and now he's terrified of Taylor Swift. Incredible how much she threatens that side of the political spectrum.
Good news, though. He'll be boycotting the Super Bowl and won't have to see her
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 09:35:52 AM
This is the weakness of being a slave to analytics. It fails to take into account game situations (aka the Brandon Staley Effect).
Going for it on 4th and inches at your opponents' 40 yard line when you're down 10 points at home in the fourth quarter is not the same thing as going on 4th and 2 on your opponents' 28 when you're up 14 points in the third quarter of a road playoff game. The figures above fail to take this into account.
A coach needs to be able to make situational judgements, not just do what a computer tells him to do or, worse yet, go for it because they go for it.
For what it's worth, over the past four seasons Badgley is 28/32 from 40-49, which is 87.5%.
100% agree on all of your points. "Going for it" because the computer (without considering the situation) says to or because "that's who I am" are not valid reasons. And 87.5% is pretty close to a gimme.
The NFL remains popular.
The final NFL on Fox broadcast of the 2023 season gave the network one more dynamite audience.
The San Francisco 49ers' 34-31 win over the Detroit Lions averaged 56.691 million viewers, the network's most-watched NFC Championship Game in 12 years.
https://awfulannouncing.com/fox/nfc-championship-56-million-fox-sports-best-2012.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 04:37:37 PM
The NFL remains popular.
The final NFL on Fox broadcast of the 2023 season gave the network one more dynamite audience.
The San Francisco 49ers' 34-31 win over the Detroit Lions averaged 56.691 million viewers, the network's most-watched NFC Championship Game in 12 years.
https://awfulannouncing.com/fox/nfc-championship-56-million-fox-sports-best-2012.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
We must be having a population surge to offset all the people that quit watching.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 04:44:36 PM
We must be having a population surge to offset all the people that quit watching.
They're only watching to see the slogans in the end zone and on helmets
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 29, 2024, 04:54:12 PM
They're only watching to see the slogans in the end zone and on helmets
Yeah, those offend a lot of snowflakes, too.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 29, 2024, 04:26:43 PM
87.5% is pretty close to a gimme.
Badgley had not attempted a FG outside a dome this season until Sunday's first-half chip shot. He also had only attempted two kicks beyond 41 yards, and he missed 2 extra points.
He's so reliable that 32 NFL teams have passed on him over and over and over and over and over again since the Chargers cut him after the 2020 season.
But yes, under playoff pressure, going for a tie in the fourth quarter and kicking outside for the first time in more than a year, a 48-yarder would have been a gimme for this proven kicking star.
Quote from: tower912 on January 29, 2024, 09:22:13 AM
Yes. I enjoyed the season. A lot of fun. But there were several things Detroit managed to paper over that came home to roost at a bad time.
1. Their secondary.
2. Inability to contain scrambling QBs.
3. Their third quarter swoons.
4. Jared Goff doesn't make plays on the move.
5. Ben Johnson, for his genius, had some odd stretches of play calling.
I see this Lion season as akin to the 22-23 MU hoops season. A whole lot of things went right to create a very fun season with a disappointing ending. And, the next season will be tougher.
#4 is so important. Clearly they can win in spite of that and very nearly did, but in those couple of plays where they needed something out of nothing, Purdy (for all of his shortcomings and near picks) did, and Goff didn't.
They're going to have to go the long way round on this next year. They have an awesome young core but it's not going to get any easier as guys start getting paid.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 29, 2024, 04:44:36 PM
We must be having a population surge to offset all the people that quit watching.
They're called swifties
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 05:27:34 PM
Badgley had not attempted a FG outside a dome this season until Sunday's first-half chip shot. He also had only attempted two kicks beyond 41 yards, and he missed 2 extra points.
He's so reliable that 32 NFL teams have passed on him over and over and over and over and over again since the Chargers cut him after the 2020 season.
But yes, under playoff pressure, going for a tie in the fourth quarter and kicking outside for the first time in more than a year, a 48-yarder would have been a gimme for this proven kicking star.
Eh ... that's just a quirk of the schedule, with the Lions playing six of his seven games indoors. It says nothing about him being bad at kicking outdoors.
Last year, he was 11-for-13 outdoors, which is 85%.
And it's obviously not his first time kicking outdoors in more than a year.
What's it say about Dan Campbell if he rosters such an awful kicker for the playoffs? Good thing a big game has never come down to kicking, I guess.
Quote from: MU82 on January 29, 2024, 05:27:34 PM
But yes, under playoff pressure, going for a tie in the fourth quarter and kicking outside for the first time in more than a year, a 48-yarder would have been a gimme for this proven kicking star.
Well, if Campbell had kicked a FG midway through the 3rd quarter to expand a 2 score lead to a 3 score lead (rather than turning the ball over on downs) the 48 yard FG in the 4th would have been for the lead rather than a tie. But instead he went with the same computer that guided the genius who got canned by the Chargers. Bad choice.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 29, 2024, 07:35:57 PM
Well, if Campbell had kicked a FG midway through the 3rd quarter to expand a 2 score lead to a 3 score lead (rather than turning the ball over on downs) the 48 yard FG in the 4th would have been for the lead rather than a tie. But instead he went with the same computer that guided the genius who got canned by the Chargers. Bad choice.
That one would have been a 45 or 46 yarder. Also not a gimme for a kicker nobody wanted - including the Lions, who cut him during the preseason.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 29, 2024, 06:10:13 PM
What's it say about Dan Campbell if he rosters such an awful kicker for the playoffs? Good thing a big game has never come down to kicking, I guess.
I think it's fair to criticize Campbell and the Lions for their problems at kicker all season and for being stuck with a journeyman who has made only 50% of the kicks he has attempted in his career outdoors between 45-49 yards - and who hasn't made one of those since 2020.
More stats from this article: https://sidelionreport.com/posts/solid-free-agency-option-exists-to-fix-detroit-lions-massive-issue-at-kicker --
In his career from 48+ yards, Badgley was 9 for 20, worst in NFL history among kickers with that many attempts.
So with a decent kicker, both the Lions and Packers coulda beat SF.
Crazy to think that Greg Olsen is about to get "demoted" by Fox. He's by far the best analyst in football, and maybe the best on TV today in any of the major sports. He was masterful Sunday, as usual.
Quote from: MU82 on January 30, 2024, 08:56:06 AM
Crazy to think that Greg Olsen is about to get "demoted" by Fox. He's by far the best analyst in football, and maybe the best on TV today in any of the major sports. He was masterful Sunday, as usual.
I could see him replacing Herbstreit at Amazon. Al Michaels pushed for Herbstreit and Michaels is phoning it in. I could see them restructure the team and bring Olsen in
Yeah Fox really painted themselves in a corner. They didn't want to pay big money for Buck and Aikman, but then paid big money for a big name because they felt they had to have an answer for Romo, only to have someone really good emerge from within. They better hope that Brady doesn't turn into anther milquetoast like Romo though.
I never thought the Brady deal was a good one and this is why. Not that I thought Olson would be good, but good announcers and analysts emerge. They don't come in great.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 30, 2024, 08:57:55 AM
I could see him replacing Herbstreit at Amazon. Al Michaels pushed for Herbstreit and Michaels is phoning it in. I could see them restructure the team and bring Olsen in
I'd rather be on the #2 Fox team than working on games that no one watches.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2024, 09:01:28 AM
I'd rather be on the #2 Fox team than working on games that no one watches.
He has to take a $7million pay cut at Fox. If Amazon offers a big raise, I'd be fine with that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2024, 09:00:00 AM
Yeah Fox really painted themselves in a corner. They didn't want to pay big money for Buck and Aikman, but then paid big money for a big name because they felt they had to have an answer for Romo, only to have someone really good emerge from within. They better hope that Brady doesn't turn into anther milquetoast like Romo though.
I never thought the Brady deal was a good one and this is why. Not that I thought Olson would be good, but good announcers and analysts emerge. They don't come in great.
Good post.
I truly will be surprised if Brady is any good. And I seriously doubt he'll be anywhere near as good as Olsen.
Understanding I'm in the minority here, but I find Olsen's commentary to be pretty bland and uninteresting. He's overrated, IMO, and at least some of that stems from the fact a) he's the anti-Romo and b) people think he's getting a raw deal (a deal he willingly signed up for).
Quote from: Pakuni on January 30, 2024, 09:28:35 AM
Understanding I'm in the minority here, but I find Olsen's commentary to be pretty bland and uninteresting. He's overrated, IMO, and at least some of that stems from the fact a) he's the anti-Romo and b) people think he's getting a raw deal (a deal he willingly signed up for).
Diff'rent strokes. I think he's outstanding. He has a way to do pretty deep football-ese analysis without making it too complex for most casual viewers. I'm always impressed with how quickly he's able to see what happens on the field and then explain it in intricate detail to the viewer. I also like that he's not overly verbose most of the time.
I was surprised by how good Olsen was when he first started. Nothing has made me think he's gotten worse.
My opinion on announcing teams is that they're only even vaguely noticeable if they are astounding or atrocious. Most teams are just white noise, forgettable, part of the audio scenery at best. Given my bias, the fact that I have good things to say about Olsen at all are a sign how good I think he is.
I hope he (and expect him to) land on his feet in a primetime team for someone.
(I have pretty low expectations of Brady, but we'll see what he brings)
Whomever neutered Romo should be fired
I think Romo neutered Romo. From reading between the lines, people think his early success was because he was went right to the booth from playing, and now doesn't put in the work.
I know a lot of people don't like Buck and Aikman, but Aikman puts in the work and it shows.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2024, 10:11:14 AM
I think Romo neutered Romo. From reading between the lines, people think his early success was because he was went right to the booth from playing, and now doesn't put in the work.
That +1 handicap isn't going to maintain itself.
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-has-its-most-watched-playoffs-ever-with-average-of-38-5-million-viewers-per-game
How much higher would ratings be if the league wasn't in bed with Bud Lighg???
#nflisntgunnabeallright
#gowokegobroke
The Taylor Swift effect.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 30, 2024, 10:11:14 AM
I think Romo neutered Romo. From reading between the lines, people think his early success was because he was went right to the booth from playing, and now doesn't put in the work.
I know a lot of people don't like Buck and Aikman, but Aikman puts in the work and it shows.
Buck and Aikman are pretty damn good these days. They have come a long way and have developed a solid chemistry, which most other booths lack.
A guy I really enjoyed this season was Matt Ryan. Too bad he's buried on CBS 5th crew.
Quote from: RJax55 on January 30, 2024, 06:06:20 PM
Buck and Aikman are pretty damn good these days. They have come a long way and have developed a solid chemistry, which most other booths lack.
A guy I really enjoyed this season was Matt Ryan. Too bad he's buried on CBS 5th crew.
I thought he was good as well. I suspect he'll be moving up the ranks
Quote from: RJax55 on January 30, 2024, 06:06:20 PM
Buck and Aikman are pretty damn good these days. They have come a long way and have developed a solid chemistry, which most other booths lack.
A guy I really enjoyed this season was Matt Ryan. Too bad he's buried on CBS 5th crew.
I never understood the hate for them. Aikman can be a little dry I suppose but puts in the work, and I think Buck is excellent on play-by-play. *shrug*
Quote from: TSmith34, Inc. on January 30, 2024, 09:38:24 PM
I never understood the hate for them. Aikman can be a little dry I suppose but puts in the work, and I think Buck is excellent on play-by-play. *shrug*
I think if Aikman quarterbacked the Bengals, it would be a different view of him.
Cute item from Yahoo Sports:
What do the 2014 World Series and 2024 Super Bowl have in common? A lot, actually.
2014 World Series: Kansas City vs. San Francisco. The Royals hadn't won a championship in exactly 29 years (1985), and the Giants were going for their third title in five years.
2024 Super Bowl: Kansas City vs. San Francisco. The 49ers haven't won a championship in exactly 29 years (1995), and the Chiefs are going for their third title in five years.
Will history repeat itself? The Giants won in 2014, then the Royals won in 2015 over the Mets. The NFL version of that? The Chiefs win this year, then the 49ers win next year... over the Jets.
Regarding the asinine Taylor Swift psyops, here is the comment from Colin Cowherd:
The fact that a pop star, the world's biggest pop star, is dating a star tight end who had one of his greatest games ever, and a network puts them on the air briefly? That it bothers you? What does that say about your life? Judge people sometimes on the silly stuff that bothers them. It'll tell you a lot about them.
When I hear this whole thing about Taylor Swift... "I just want to watch football!" liar. You're lying. That's not true. A football telecast is not just football. In fact, the commercials for four hours before the Super Bowl will be widely watched. Did you know statistically in a three and a half hour NFL playoff broadcast or regular season broadcast just 18 minutes are actual football? And we have the data; we have the numbers. You don't turn away. There's coaches, cutaways, they show fans in Buffalo on fire, commercials, reviews. Eighteen minutes of real football. For the record, about the length of five Taylor Swift songs. Listen to this: the New York Times measured how long she was actually on the broadcast: do you know how long it is? On average, 25 seconds. In three and a half hours. Against the Ravens, it was up to a whopping 32 seconds. It was 14 Chiefs and Raiders on Christmas, 12 Chiefs and Bengals, 24 seconds Buffalo. Kansas City she was on for a minute against the Dolphins but it was an absolutely awful broadcast -- they should have had a concert in the middle of it, that would have been more interesting.
And why wouldn't CBS, which you know, has the Grammys, cross-promote the world's biggest pop star?
Hey listen I worked at the other network, I work at Fox. I've seen us jam people on TV shows I would never watch during football games and sporting events. "Don't forget to watch this right after the game!" I've already forgot about it. Let's get back to the game. But I don't have to rush to social media. I'm okay with it.
Here's the other thing that strikes me: Matthew McConaughey 'all right all right all Eminem, Michigan sporting events, we celebrated 80s 90s Jack Nicholson, Laker games. "It's cool! Saw Jack!" But a talented and beautiful woman is on the air, one who would never pay attention to lonely men, and it bothers them.
There's a stat out there: it's kind of uncomfortable for you, sad guys, that 50% of men never have real intimacy with a woman. That means the other 50% have multiple intimate relationships with women, and those ones that don't are angry and sad and lonely, and they are often misogynistic and resent women who didn't give them the time they think they deserve. We celebrate all these goofballs jumping on tables in Buffalo and cheese hats and men, and men and Matthew McConaughey and Drake and Jack Nicholson, men, and Eminem, and it's cool and 'can I get a selfie? And I can't believe I saw!' and the young, attractive, beautiful, talented woman comes on for 25 seconds, and you're bothered.
Again, judge people by the silly things that bother them.
Someone on Twitter asked what the 1980s equivalent of Swift and Kelce would be. The best answer I saw was Whitney Houston and The Fridge.
I always root for happiness.
Quote from: Jockey on January 31, 2024, 01:41:47 PM
Regarding the asinine Taylor Swift psyops, here is the comment from Colin Cowherd:
The fact that a pop star, the world's biggest pop star, is dating a star tight end who had one of his greatest games ever, and a network puts them on the air briefly? That it bothers you? What does that say about your life? Judge people sometimes on the silly stuff that bothers them. It'll tell you a lot about them.
When I hear this whole thing about Taylor Swift... "I just want to watch football!" liar. You're lying. That's not true. A football telecast is not just football. In fact, the commercials for four hours before the Super Bowl will be widely watched. Did you know statistically in a three and a half hour NFL playoff broadcast or regular season broadcast just 18 minutes are actual football? And we have the data; we have the numbers. You don't turn away. There's coaches, cutaways, they show fans in Buffalo on fire, commercials, reviews. Eighteen minutes of real football. For the record, about the length of five Taylor Swift songs. Listen to this: the New York Times measured how long she was actually on the broadcast: do you know how long it is? On average, 25 seconds. In three and a half hours. Against the Ravens, it was up to a whopping 32 seconds. It was 14 Chiefs and Raiders on Christmas, 12 Chiefs and Bengals, 24 seconds Buffalo. Kansas City she was on for a minute against the Dolphins but it was an absolutely awful broadcast -- they should have had a concert in the middle of it, that would have been more interesting.
And why wouldn't CBS, which you know, has the Grammys, cross-promote the world's biggest pop star?
Hey listen I worked at the other network, I work at Fox. I've seen us jam people on TV shows I would never watch during football games and sporting events. "Don't forget to watch this right after the game!" I've already forgot about it. Let's get back to the game. But I don't have to rush to social media. I'm okay with it.
Here's the other thing that strikes me: Matthew McConaughey 'all right all right all Eminem, Michigan sporting events, we celebrated 80s 90s Jack Nicholson, Laker games. "It's cool! Saw Jack!" But a talented and beautiful woman is on the air, one who would never pay attention to lonely men, and it bothers them.
There's a stat out there: it's kind of uncomfortable for you, sad guys, that 50% of men never have real intimacy with a woman. That means the other 50% have multiple intimate relationships with women, and those ones that don't are angry and sad and lonely, and they are often misogynistic and resent women who didn't give them the time they think they deserve. We celebrate all these goofballs jumping on tables in Buffalo and cheese hats and men, and men and Matthew McConaughey and Drake and Jack Nicholson, men, and Eminem, and it's cool and 'can I get a selfie? And I can't believe I saw!' and the young, attractive, beautiful, talented woman comes on for 25 seconds, and you're bothered.
Again, judge people by the silly things that bother them.
I think he was on a good roll and then went off the rails about incels at the end. There are plenty of reasons to not want to see Taylor Swift all over the place that don't involve resentment that she's what Cowherd is gushing about at the end. The snap conclusion that any time someone bags on an attractive female celebrity its cause they are jealous celibate losers is as annoying as people getting pressed over this sort of nonsense to begin with.
That being said, I think its just carry over from earlier in the season. The coverage of her in the playoffs was actually pretty muted. It was the insanity of the first few games that created the narrative of her being overdone. There is some Mandela effect with the actual broadcasts I think. Incessant Swift/Kelce coverage and speculation surrounding the game makes you think/feel that she's shown every commercial break. The irony is he mentions Drake...but people were bitching about him being constantly shown and inserted into everything Raptors during their run too.
I can't stand Tay Tay, I think most everything she does is an inauthentic and calculated , and her legion of fans is terrifying and delusional. That being said, I can't fathom being that bothered by her "impact" on the playoffs. Get a damn grip.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 02:05:13 PM
I think he was on a good roll and then went off the rails about incels at the end. There are plenty of reasons to not want to see Taylor Swift all over the place that don't involve resentment that she's what Cowherd is gushing about at the end. The snap conclusion that any time someone bags on an attractive female celebrity its cause they are jealous celibate losers is as annoying as people getting pressed over this sort of nonsense to begin with.
That being said, I think its just carry over from earlier in the season. The coverage of her in the playoffs was actually pretty muted. It was the insanity of the first few games that created the narrative of her being overdone. There is some Mandela effect with the actual broadcasts I think. Incessant Swift/Kelce coverage and speculation surrounding the game makes you think/feel that she's shown every commercial break. The irony is he mentions Drake...but people were bitching about him being constantly shown and inserted into everything Raptors during their run too.
I can't stand Tay Tay, I think most everything she does is an inauthentic and calculated , and her legion of fans is terrifying and delusional. That being said, I can't fathom being that bothered by her "impact" on the playoffs. Get a damn grip.
Cowherd is right. If seeing Taylor Swift on TV for five seconds here and there bothers you, you're the problem.
I'm not really a fan because she's not my style, but I've found her to be about the most authentic major pop star of the past 40 years. She came up organically, wasn't invented by a studio, writes her own songs, actually sings during her live performances and seems pretty widely respected by her fellow musicians.
As for her fans, are they really any more terrifying or delusional as these people?
(https://www.diehardpackerfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/1.-Temperature-Was-Unbearable.jpg)
Or these people?
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwLZP8NhM8hMlXhSDanx6_d5S0lF7MUQ0c1g&usqp=CAU)
I am not generally a Cowherd fan. In this case, I agree with every word he said. I feel he pulled his punch a little. I say this, not as a fan of Taylor Swift (I echo Pakuni), but as a fan of get a grip and get over yourself.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 02:42:53 PM
I am not generally a Cowherd fan. InThis case, I agree with every word he said. I feel he pulled his punch a little. I say this, not as a fan of Taylor Swift (I echo Pakuni), but as a fan of get a grip and get over yourself.
Culture wars always need new battlegrounds. Plus, people believe this nonsense about the NFL being fixed. Imagine fixing it so Brock Purdy is starting at QB for one of the teams.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 02:36:53 PM
Cowherd is right. If seeing Taylor Swift on TV for five seconds here and there bothers you, you're the problem.
I'm not really a fan because she's not my style, but I've found her to be about the most authentic major pop star of the past 40 years. She came up organically, wasn't invented by a studio, writes her own songs, actually sings during her live performances and seems pretty widely respected by her fellow musicians.
As for her fans, are they really any more terrifying or delusional as these people?
LOL she's a child of rich parents who had all the tools to be successful. She writes good songs, but is only an okay singer. I find her to be completely contrived by a PR firm and as inauthentic as they come. I totally agree with JWags here.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:37:02 PM
LOL she's a child of rich parents who had all the tools to be successful. She writes good songs, but is only an okay singer. I find her to be completely contrived by a PR firm and as inauthentic as they come. I totally agree with JWags here.
So you agree she's a psyop created to alter the will of the American people this fall!
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:37:02 PM
LOL she's a child of rich parents ...
Didn't know this was disqualifying.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 03:53:12 PM
Didn't know this was disqualifying.
Well having rich ass parents usually doesn't mean you've come up organically.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 31, 2024, 03:12:17 PM
Culture wars always need new battlegrounds.
For the life of me I can't really figure out how this has become that though. Is it because Kelce is pro-vax? Is it simply because she's a woman? That they simply find it annoying? I mean, I do too but the intersection between sports and celebrity is as old as dirt.
At least I have a understanding of why Madonna and the Dixie Chicks caused outrage. But this?? She is a popular, and pretty much a non-controversial figure who sings blandish pop songs.
BTW, I have no idea if she is authentic or not. But I have a friend whose daughter is in the Masters program at USC and got to do some behind the scenes work on her Eras movie. She interacted with Swift a few times and found her to be delightful.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:59:22 PM
Well having rich ass parents usually doesn't mean you've come up organically.
It doesn't? Why?
By come up organically, I mean she followed a traditional path to her success. She learned how to play an instrument. She started writing her own songs. She recorded demos and sent them around to labels. She started performing her own songs. Her first gigs were in a coffee shop in New Jersey.
Unlike some of her peers, she wasn't created in a record company lab or by a Svengali character. She wasn't a child actor. She wasn't given a Disney or Nick show as a platform from which to launch her music career.
But her parents had money, so grumble, grumble, grumble.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:59:22 PM
Well having rich ass parents usually doesn't mean you've come up organically.
Just sayin'.
I could win the biggest lottery in the world and I'm not selling out football stadiums multiple times a week to listen to me play music, no matter how much help I get.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 04:18:40 PM
It doesn't? Why?
By come up organically, I mean she followed a traditional path to her success. She learned how to play an instrument. She started writing her own songs. She recorded demos and sent them around to labels. She started performing her own songs. Her first gigs were in a coffee shop in New Jersey.
Unlike some of her peers, she wasn't created in a record company lab or by a Svengali character. She wasn't a child actor. She wasn't given a Disney or Nick show as a platform from which to launch her music career.
But her parents had money, so grumble, grumble, grumble.
Ehhh kind of. Her parents were taking to her to NYC for acting and singing lessons before she was even a teen and signed her a hot shot talent manager before she ever recorded a demo. She modeled for Abercrombie before she had a record deal. There was a plan for her fame before she was ever a budding songwriter.
And then when she had a preliminary record deal, they moved to Nashville. People always tell the story about her being "discovered" at Bluebird Cafe like it was a cozy open mic, but it was actually an industry showcase. And her father was a minority investor in her first real label, Big Machine Records.
Now I don't think she is some industry plant or a nepo baby, but she didn't have some super organic hustler come up where she was plucked from obscurity on pure talent.
Despite all that, I actually think the earlier country form of her music was pretty authentic, with heavy input from her own songwriting, etc... but pop superstar Taylor Swift from the last few albums is just as contrived and inauthentic as any manufactured pop star and looking at her liner notes, the songs are written by an army of elite pop songwriters and producers, not the brilliant T Swift pen. And she lip syncs plenty in her live shows. It's not like she's only up there with a guitar and a mic.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 31, 2024, 04:27:01 PM
I could win the biggest lottery in the world and I'm not selling out football stadiums multiple times a week to listen to me play music, no matter how much help I get.
Well, that's a bit of a stretch.
Imagine your parents won the lotto and you wanted to be a musician. You were afforded every opportunity from lessons, to equipment, to having the means to meet the 'right people'. If you failed, you'd still have very wealthy parents and be set for life.
That'd be the comparison. I'm not trying to diminish her accomplishments, but she's certainly started with a LOT more of a chance than your average busker in Nashville.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:59:22 PM
Well having rich ass parents usually doesn't mean you've come up organically.
Just sayin'.
???
Her music may not be in your lane (it's certainly not in mine) but she's the biggest pop star in the frickin' world! Her accomplishments have everything to do with hard work and talent and nothing to do with her parents having some money. Belittling them due to some accident of birth is an odd, mean spirited take.
She and Kelce is a nice story and relevant because America worships celebrity. Nothing new there, and nothing to get up in arms about.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 31, 2024, 04:14:42 PM
For the life of me I can't really figure out how this has become that though. Is it because Kelce is pro-vax? Is it simply because she's a woman? That they simply find it annoying? I mean, I do too but the intersection between sports and celebrity is as old as dirt.
At least I have a understanding of why Madonna and the Dixie Chicks caused outrage. But this?? She is a popular, and pretty much a non-controversial figure who sings blandish pop songs.
BTW, I have no idea if she is authentic or not. But I have a friend whose daughter is in the Masters program at USC and got to do some behind the scenes work on her Eras movie. She interacted with Swift a few times and found her to be delightful.
A. The pro-vax part
B. She might support Biden. She was already on the radar for promoting voter registration
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 04:37:44 PM
Ehhh kind of. Her parents were taking to her to NYC for acting and singing lessons before she was even a teen and signed her a hot shot talent manager before she ever recorded a demo.
I don't believe this is correct.
According to this, she recorded her first demo in 2002:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/
And according to this, she wasn't connected with Dymtrow until a year later:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121011190303/http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/Forums/entsports/PublicDocuments/oppositionbrief.authcheckdam.PDF
As for her parents taking her for singing lessons ... so? Earl Woods was taking Tiger for golf lessons pretty much from the time he could stand. Walt Gretzky had Wayne playing hockey when he was 2.
Is their success somehow less deserved or earned?
Quote
And then when she had a preliminary record deal, they moved to Nashville. People always tell the story about her being "discovered" at Bluebird Cafe like it was a cozy open mic, but it was actually an industry showcase.
That's a totally common and normal way for musicians to get noticed. These events are, in fact, created for that purpose, especially in the Nashville scene. I mean, SXSW basically started as a showcase and in some ways still is today. Would you say all the acts that have launched from there were somehow less legitimate?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 31, 2024, 04:49:31 PM
A. The pro-vax part
B. She might support Biden. She was already on the radar for promoting voter registration
She endorsed Biden in 2020, believe
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 31, 2024, 04:48:29 PM
???
Her music may not be in your lane (it's certainly not in mine) but she's the biggest pop star in the frickin' world! Her accomplishments have everything to do with hard work and talent and nothing to do with her parents having some money. Belittling them due to some accident of birth is an odd, mean spirited take.
She and Kelce is a nice story and relevant because America worships celebrity. Nothing new there, and nothing to get up in arms about.
Talent + hard work has a FAR FAR FAR lower chance of success than talent + hard work + super wealthy.
I think KC wins. I think the combination of Reid, Mahomes, and two weeks prep is too much for the 49ers.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:11:54 PM
I think KC wins. I think the combination of Reid, Mahomes, and two weeks prep is too much for the 49ers.
How dare you talk about a football game, sir!
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:11:54 PM
I think KC wins. I think the combination of Reid, Mahomes, and two weeks prep is too much for the 49ers.
There you go again, trying to steer the conversation back on topic.
What can I say? I'm a rebel.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 31, 2024, 04:58:00 PM
Talent + hard work has a FAR FAR FAR lower chance of success than talent + hard work + super wealthy.
Exactly. That's my take as well.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:25:37 PM
What can I say? I'm a rebel.
Chiefs defense is pretty solid. Better than SF and GB
I really admire how quickly Brock Purdy has gone from MR. Irrelevant to starting QB in a Super Bowl. What an amazing story. Which could start a lengthy discussion about how the hive mind can be so high on the Trubisky's, Pickett's, Darnold's of the world and so low on him. What did everyone miss?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 31, 2024, 04:48:29 PM
???
Her music may not be in your lane (it's certainly not in mine) but she's the biggest pop star in the frickin' world! Her accomplishments have everything to do with hard work and talent and nothing to do with her parents having some money. Belittling them due to some accident of birth is an odd, mean spirited take.
She and Kelce is a nice story and relevant because America worships celebrity. Nothing new there, and nothing to get up in arms about.
Good post, Lenny. And I can't name even one of her songs.
I have noticed the respect she gets from other songwriters and performers. I'm guessing they didn't praise her because she has rich parents.
The damnation by the right is utterly predictable, though. A democrat who has a pro-vax boyfriend? Everything a MAGAt looks for when attacking somebody.
Same question with Jake Browning. How does he get missed?
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:36:08 PM
Same question with Jake Browning. How does he get missed?
They both had weird senior seasons
Here is what the MAGAts say about Taylor. Please read skowly and try to grasp what they say. Try not to choke in laughter or disgust while reading. And remember - people actually choose to listen to this every day.
Here's One America News Network nutter Alison Steinberg accusing professional football and major league sports in general of being one big psy-ops program designed to brainwash your kids:
STEINBERG: America's pop star celebrity sweetheart joins forces with the top dog in the NFL playing for the team that's going to the Super Bowl. I mean, let's be real here. This is bread and circuses on steroids. Major league sports in and of itself is nothing but a psy-op. Get kids plugged into the cycle of going to public indoctrination camps, playing sports for their school, and going to games. Many end up devoting their entire childhood to competing in various sports only to be cut from the team, at which point they become brainwashed into supporting professional teams because they know their dreams of becoming a pro athlete will probably never happen.
So then they become obsessed with some grown man who gets paid millions of dollars every year to throw a ball around while promoting poison death shots and child slave labor through various brand deals and endorsements. So sad. ...
Just imagine for a moment if people were as dedicated to Jesus as they are professional sports. I think the country might look pretty different if that were the case. But sadly, as we know, it's not.
And perhaps that's why we're witnessing the crumbling and degradation of our once great nation. Instead, all we seem to care about are the celebrities and athletes propped up by the Hollywood elites in this ongoing theater. This fake, carefully crafted show that the masses have been hypnotized by and can't seem to turn off.
The question is, with the wide open border and millions of illegals pouring in daily, the stealing at the ballot boxes and censoring conservative news, and Republican incumbents being removed from the ballot and financing Nikki Haley and so on, why do the powers that be need this dynamic duo to sway the vote? Don't they have enough dirty tricks up their sleeves as it is? Think about it. If Taylor Swift is really owned by [George] Soros, we might actually have a rare chance to unite against him. Using Taylor Swift as the Trojan horse instead of pushing the Alphabet Mafia and murdering of babies to her fans, she should be warning about the dangers of the corrupt elites.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:31:05 PM
I really admire how quickly Brock Purdy has gone from MR. Irrelevant to starting QB in a Super Bowl. What an amazing story. Which could start a lengthy discussion about how the hive mind can be so high on the Trubisky's, Pickett's, Darnold's of the world and so low on him. What did everyone miss?
Purdy's only 6-1, which is an immediate disqualifier for a lot of GMs and scouts. His arm strength, speed, etc, weren't overly impressive. Scouts often get set in their minds all the things a player can't do.
I was gonna say I sure wish the Panthers had taken him in the 7th round in the 2022 draft, but they wouldn't have known what to do with him anyway.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 31, 2024, 04:58:00 PM
Talent + hard work has a FAR FAR FAR lower chance of success than talent + hard work + super wealthy.
For limited success? I think I would agree.
For success - as in becoming the most powerful entertainer in the world? Hardly.
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2024, 05:31:05 PM
I really admire how quickly Brock Purdy has gone from MR. Irrelevant to starting QB in a Super Bowl. What an amazing story. Which could start a lengthy discussion about how the hive mind can be so high on the Trubisky's, Pickett's, Darnold's of the world and so low on him. What did everyone miss?
NM
Watched the Taylor Swift Folklore Long Pond Studio Sessions documentary. She's pretty damn talented if you ask me.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 04:56:15 PM
I don't believe this is correct.
According to this, she recorded her first demo in 2002:
https://www.nydailynews.com/2015/01/10/exclusive-the-real-story-behind-taylor-swifts-guitar-legend-meet-the-computer-repairman-who-taught-the-pop-superstar-how-to-play/
And according to this, she wasn't connected with Dymtrow until a year later:
https://web.archive.org/web/20121011190303/http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/Forums/entsports/PublicDocuments/oppositionbrief.authcheckdam.PDF
As for her parents taking her for singing lessons ... so? Earl Woods was taking Tiger for golf lessons pretty much from the time he could stand. Walt Gretzky had Wayne playing hockey when he was 2.
Is their success somehow less deserved or earned?
She wasn't recording the kind of demo you shop to labels. I used to play in a band with guys that got signed to a major label a year and change after they started a new project. I used to play shows in college with a singer songwriter who ended up getting signed at 19 and dropping out of college to tour. Signing with/engaging a notable/high level manager after writing a song or two and no studio demo, much less as a young teen, is extremely abnormal and the opposite of the organic growth. It's basically pay to play jumping the queue and forcing career development. It is what it is, but gotta at least be honest about it, not "precocious songwriter hustles demo around and gets noticed"
And that's not the same thing at all. It's not just a guitar or vocal lesson. It's vocal and acting lessons and getting a talent manager who also gets her into modeling for the biggest teen brand at the time. Again, plenty of teens with talent managers turn into nothing, but again, at least call it what it is. And it's not "organic" bedroom demos turning into a magical career from nowhere. If Earl Woods took Tiger to golf lessons but then paid to get him onto teen tours or some elite golf academy, before he ever showed the golf chops, where he got full training and management and connections into the PGA tour, it's still amazing that he became a superstar. But it's not fair to say he hustled it all on his own on munis like Lee Trevino or Bubba Watson
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 04:56:15 PM
That's a totally common and normal way for musicians to get noticed. These events are, in fact, created for that purpose, especially in the Nashville scene. I mean, SXSW basically started as a showcase and in some ways still is today. Would you say all the acts that have launched from there were somehow less legitimate?
Of course, but my unknown 15 year old neighbor with his garage demos isn't getting a spot at SXSW or getting into an exclusive industry showcase. The narrative that she was some unknown who got spotted at an open mic at Bluebird is what is silly. She'd already been connected to two different labels in Nashville by that point. She/her father didn't like the deals being offered which is why she was still open and why Big Machine was attractive (being brought in as an investor didn't hurt).
Again, I don't care for her but I'm not suggesting she's a hack or untalented, but I've always been annoyed by the relentless pushed narrative around her come up, and I don't at all agree with her being the most authentic or organic. I've actually heard from acquaintances that she's actually quite nice in person, and I don't think she's some monster. But she/her team control the narrative/story around her as meticulously as Rodgers.
And nobody, NOBODY, connected in entertainment that isn't a Swiftie believes her myriad PR romances. I won't comment on Kelce as of now, but the fact that sources are already spinning ENGAGEMENT COMING seems a bit fishy. Again, doesn't make her a monster, doesn't make her an untalented nepo baby, but she's no different than plenty of pop stars now and before her, just with better marketing. Call it what it is.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 05:50:17 PM
That's a totally common and normal way for musicians to get noticed. These events are, in fact, created for that purpose, especially in the Nashville scene. I mean, SXSW basically started as a showcase and in some ways still is today. Would you say all the acts that have launched from there were somehow less legitimate?
Of course, but my unknown 15 year old neighbor with his garage demos isn't getting a spot at SXSW or getting into an exclusive industry showcase. The narrative that she was some unknown who got spotted at an open mic at Bluebird is what is silly. She'd already been connected to two different labels in Nashville by that point. She/her father didn't like the deals being offered which is why she was still open and why Big Machine was attractive (being brought in as an investor didn't hurt).
Again, I don't care for her but I'm not suggesting she's a hack or untalented, but I've always been annoyed by the relentless pushed narrative around her come up, and I don't at all agree with her being the most authentic or organic. I've actually heard from acquaintances that she's actually quite nice in person, and I don't think she's some monster. But she/her team control the narrative/story around her as meticulously as Rodgers.
And nobody, NOBODY, connected in entertainment that isn't a Swiftie believes her myriad PR romances. I won't comment on Kelce as of now, but the fact that sources are already spinning ENGAGEMENT COMING seems a bit fishy. Again, doesn't make her a monster, doesn't make her an untalented nepo baby, but she's no different than plenty of pop stars now and before her, just with better marketing. Call it what it is.
It's why Rodgers wanted to date her and he's so jealous of Kelce.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 05:50:17 PM
Signing with/engaging a notable/high level manager after writing a song or two and no studio demo, much less as a young teen, is extremely abnormal and the opposite of the organic growth. It's basically pay to play jumping the queue and forcing career development.
You didn't read the second link I provided did you? Fair enough; it is kind of long.
It's Dymtrow's lawsuit against TS, recounting how they got together. In his account, he was contacted by a friend who had heard TS' demo in the fall of 2002. He listened, liked what he heard, and invited TS and her mom to a meeting several months later. At that meeting, TS performed for him, he again liked what he heard and he signed her.
The suit also recalls that prior to signing with him, TS shopped her demo around unsuccessfully, leading her family to decide to seek representation. Which is weird, since you say there was no demo prior to the "hot shot" manager.
Anyhow, explain how this is substantially different from any other performer getting representation? How is this "forcing" career development? Manager heard the music, met the artist, heard the artist perform in person, signed the artist. That's how it works.
QuoteIt is what it is, but gotta at least be honest about it, not "precocious songwriter hustles demo around and gets noticed"
Except that's exactly what her former manager says happened.
QuoteIf Earl Woods took Tiger to golf lessons but then paid to get him onto teen tours or some elite golf academy, before he ever showed the golf chops, where he got full training and management and connections into the PGA tour,
So, Taylor Swift's parents bribed her way into an elite singing academy (Juliard?) and Disney/Nick concerts?
Didn't know that.
QuoteThe narrative that she was some unknown who got spotted at an open mic at Bluebird is what is silly.
Literally no one here has suggested this. Who exactly are you arguing with?
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 06:16:19 PM
You didn't read the second link I provided did you? Fair enough; it is kind of long.
::) Passive aggressive condescending snarkiness in an otherwise civil discussion is always cool
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 06:16:19 PM
It's Dymtrow's lawsuit against TS, recounting how they got together. In his account, he was contacted by a friend who had heard TS' demo in the fall of 2002. He listened, liked what he heard, and invited TS and her mom to a meeting several months later. At that meeting, TS performed for him, he again liked what he heard and he signed her.
The suit also recalls that prior to signing with him, TS shopped her demo around unsuccessfully, leading her family to decide to seek representation. Which is weird, since you say there was no demo prior to the "hot shot" manager.
Anyhow, explain how this is substantially different from any other performer getting representation? How is this "forcing" career development? Manager heard the music, met the artist, heard the artist perform in person, signed the artist. That's how it works.
I remember the case. It was a classic jilted manager royalties lawsuit. FWIW, that's his testimony in a lawsuit against the Swifts where he is intentionally playing up his role in her career as he got dumped right before her signing with Big Machine. I remember hearing at the time that their contention was that they sought him out. It was settled out of court I believe, so we don't actually know. We can agree to disagree, but that lawsuit did bring to light the obsessive and hard charging role her parents had in creating and pushing her career, make of that what you will.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 06:16:19 PM
So, Taylor Swift's parents bribed her way into an elite singing academy (Juliard?) and Disney/Nick concerts?
Didn't know that.
Orrrrr being shepherded by label execs and A&R from the very advent of your career. Some stars hone their talents organically playing coffee shops, open mics, small tours. Others get signed at 14 before even recording an EP and have well connected management guide every career move from that point. That's even more conducive to career success than going to Berklee or Julliard
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2024, 06:16:19 PM
Literally no one here has suggested this. Who exactly are you arguing with?
You do this all the time. You assume that everyone's perspective or argument is solely revolved around the discussion here. I can assure you my mind and opinion on Swift as an artist and persona was made up well before any mention here. And my countering of your opinion was fueled by evidence outside of our back and forth. Everything I refer to that annoys me has been endlessly parroted by the media, Swifties, social media commentary, etc... You personally may not be considering the Bluebird aspect in your assessment of her, but it's a key component in the story that people commonly use to talk about her "humble" origin story or her authenticity as an artist like she was a young Loretta Lynn grinding as an unknown teen in cafes before she was plucked from obscurity.
But hey, YMMV. I know plenty of normal non-obsessive T Swift fans and that's cool by me. Love Story and Shoulda Said No still slap
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 06:59:05 PM
::) Passive aggressive condescending snarkiness in an otherwise civil discussion is always cool
Thats not at all how it was intended and mea culpa if it reads that way. I honestly was trying to cut you slack for having not read it.
If your position here is that the manager is lying in his legal complaint and you know the real scoop of how their relationship came into being, I don't know how to respond to that. So I won't.
Nm
Not gonna lie. I would rather see Taylor than a shirtless Jason Kelce.
Quote from: JWags85 on January 31, 2024, 05:50:17 PM
She wasn't recording the kind of demo you shop to labels. I used to play in a band with guys that got signed to a major label a year and change after they started a new project. I used to play shows in college with a singer songwriter who ended up getting signed at 19 and dropping out of college to tour. Signing with/engaging a notable/high level manager after writing a song or two and no studio demo, much less as a young teen, is extremely abnormal and the opposite of the organic growth. It's basically pay to play jumping the queue and forcing career development. It is what it is, but gotta at least be honest about it, not "precocious songwriter hustles demo around and gets noticed"
And that's not the same thing at all. It's not just a guitar or vocal lesson. It's vocal and acting lessons and getting a talent manager who also gets her into modeling for the biggest teen brand at the time. Again, plenty of teens with talent managers turn into nothing, but again, at least call it what it is. And it's not "organic" bedroom demos turning into a magical career from nowhere. If Earl Woods took Tiger to golf lessons but then paid to get him onto teen tours or some elite golf academy, before he ever showed the golf chops, where he got full training and management and connections into the PGA tour, it's still amazing that he became a superstar. But it's not fair to say he hustled it all on his own on munis like Lee Trevino or Bubba Watson
Of course, but my unknown 15 year old neighbor with his garage demos isn't getting a spot at SXSW or getting into an exclusive industry showcase. The narrative that she was some unknown who got spotted at an open mic at Bluebird is what is silly. She'd already been connected to two different labels in Nashville by that point. She/her father didn't like the deals being offered which is why she was still open and why Big Machine was attractive (being brought in as an investor didn't hurt).
Again, I don't care for her but I'm not suggesting she's a hack or untalented, but I've always been annoyed by the relentless pushed narrative around her come up, and I don't at all agree with her being the most authentic or organic. I've actually heard from acquaintances that she's actually quite nice in person, and I don't think she's some monster. But she/her team control the narrative/story around her as meticulously as Rodgers.
And nobody, NOBODY, connected in entertainment that isn't a Swiftie believes her myriad PR romances. I won't comment on Kelce as of now, but the fact that sources are already spinning ENGAGEMENT COMING seems a bit fishy. Again, doesn't make her a monster, doesn't make her an untalented nepo baby, but she's no different than plenty of pop stars now and before her, just with better marketing. Call it what it is.
Exactly. Especially the last two paragraphs.
I don't go running from a room if Taylor Swift is on, and some of her stuff is catchy. I just don't believe anything about her. She may be genuine and a lot of people have said as much. But she doesn't seem REAL to me. Everything about her and her actions seems so contrived.
Plus, how can you possibly trust anyone who is friends with Brittany Maholmes?
If wealthy people want to give people who work for her $55MM in gifts for some ulterior motive, I'm okay with it.
There are a lot worse people in pop culture out there than Taylor Swift.
I blame this all on Kanye for making her famous.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2024, 09:17:19 PM
Tell me you are old without telling me you are old.
But I will make my nearly annual proposal to move the Super Bowl to Saturday.
Dan Patrick agrees with me.
Music biz is tough. I remember getting offered a record deal. Had to decline because a requirement was going on tour for two weeks straight and I couldn't be issue of "real" work.
Bummer
"If you win a Super Bowl before you're fired, you're a genius, and everyone listens to you. But a coach is just a guy whose best class in grammar school was recess and whose best class in high school was P.E. I never thought I was anything but a guy whose best class was P.E." - John Madden
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:37:02 PM
LOL she's a child of rich parents who had all the tools to be successful. She writes good songs, but is only an okay singer. I find her to be completely contrived by a PR firm and as inauthentic as they come. I totally agree with JWags here.
Exactly. Only disagreement is the good songs comment. They're white noise that sound like they were written by a Jack Antonoff AI bot. People can like whatever they want and I get that I'm not the target market, but I don't think I've come across a more overrated musician or one even close. I get that it's mainly for tween girls and that's fine! The all-encompassing ubiquity leaves me a bit confused though to say the least.
Quote from: Silkk the Shaka on February 05, 2024, 01:36:45 PM
Exactly. Only disagreement is the good songs comment. They're white noise that sound like they were written by a Jack Antonoff AI bot. People can like whatever they want and I get that I'm not the target market, but I don't think I've come across a more overrated musician or one even close. I get that it's mainly for tween girls and that's fine! The all-encompassing ubiquity leaves me a bit confused though to say the least.
Don't be confused. People like what they like. It will eventually peter out.
This is all a very weird argument to me. "Good" is the perfect internet argument. I think the fact that she's been able to spam the algorithm of what's been successful and popular at any moment in time is a credit to her creativity and versality as a musician and businesswoman. Good is whatever pays the bills, so I guess she's "good".
And that's before we get into the argument of whether she has her finger to the pulse of what is popular or is defining it. She might be inevitable at this point.
Imagine if Jackson Mahomes wasn't in all that legal trouble for all this.
Chiefs 27 49ers 23
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 01:07:16 PM
Chiefs 27 49ers 23
27-20 Chiefs wins my wife $1500, so lets go with that.
Go, Wags wife! Seriously, no rooting inrerest, so I will root for her.
Chiefs.
For those who care and drink, may as well make it the Taylor Swift drinking game. See Taylor, drink.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2024, 04:39:05 PM
For those who care and drink, may as well make it the Taylor Swift drinking game. See Taylor, drink.
Millions are boycotting the game because of her. What drinking game should they play?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 04:42:49 PM
Millions are boycotting the game because of her. What drinking game should they play?
The tears they cry knowing that America used to be a proper country.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on January 31, 2024, 03:37:02 PM
LOL she's a child of rich parents who had all the tools to be successful. She writes good songs, but is only an okay singer. I find her to be completely contrived by a PR firm and as inauthentic as they come. I totally agree with JWags here.
So privileged, hey?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 04:42:49 PM
Millions are boycotting the game because of her. What drinking game should they play?
How many shots of bleach they can put down?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 04:42:49 PM
Millions are boycotting the game because of her. What drinking game should they play?
Whatever goes with strained oatmeal and bitter tears.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 04:42:49 PM
Millions are boycotting the game because of her. What drinking game should they play?
Millions, highly doubtful. Dozens, maybe.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2024, 04:50:48 PM
Whatever goes with strained oatmeal and bitter tears.
Ugh. They're giving out the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award. These guys need to be on the practice field and film room. I wouldn't cross the street or spend a dime to watch these guys. Shut up and tackle
I hope when he's done with the Rooney Rule, Stephen Miller turns his attention to the disgusting and exclusionary nature of Lift Every Voice and Sing
Wear day puttin' da statue, hey?
Quote from: JWags85 on February 11, 2024, 05:15:19 PM
I hope when he's done with the Rooney Rule, Stephen Miller turns his attention to the disgusting and exclusionary nature of Lift Every Voice and Sing
Always a difficult time for many Americans to have to sit through that song
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 05:18:52 PM
Always a difficult time for many Americans to have to sit through that song
Not the DEI merchants.
Extra golf in Phoenix.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 05:18:52 PM
Always a difficult time for many Americans to have to sit through that song
I was told by my liberal acquaintances a few years ago that if you have an issue with a song being played before a sporting event , you are perfectly justified in taking a knee during its playing.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:31:19 PM
I was told by my liberal acquaintances a few years ago that if you have an issue with a song being played before a sporting event , you are perfectly justified in taking a knee during its playing.
Please do.
I had no idea TEMU was pronounced TEM-ooo and not TEA-Moo.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:31:19 PM
I was told by my liberal acquaintances a few years ago that if you have an issue with a song being played before a sporting event , you are perfectly justified in taking a knee during its playing.
Not a problem for me.
That pickleball commercial was pretty accurate
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 06:32:50 PM
Please do.
Not me.. I love that song. I was only thinking about the less enlightened pot/kettle Scoopers. Such as yourself.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:41:22 PM
Not me.. I love that song. I was only thinking about the less enlightened pot/kettle Scoopers. Such as yourself.
What?
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:41:22 PM
Not me.. I love that song. I was only thinking about the less enlightened pot/kettle Scoopers. Such as yourself.
Thank you for your concern
Niners kicking the Chiefs tail.
Not sure why KC is trying to play them straight up on offense and not use any motion and misdirection. Was successful for GB and Detroit
A second playoff hole in Phoenix. If it doesn't end here, I am thinking it will have to wait until morning.
Either CBS forgot the field mics or this crowd is quiet AF.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 05:18:52 PM
Always a difficult time for many Americans to have to sit through that song
Why this gratuitous statement about " many Americans". What Americans?? I and 18,000+ other Americans stood when the song was played before the StJohns/ MU game yesterday. You seem to have a real case of red ass about this kind of stuff.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:57:15 PM
Why this gratuitous statement about " many Americans". What Americans?? I and 18,000+ other Americans stood when the song was played before the StJohns/ MU game yesterday. You seem to have a real case of red ass about this kind of stuff.
lol. It was a joke.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 06:57:15 PM
Why this gratuitous statement about " many Americans". What Americans?? I and 18,000+ other Americans stood when the song was played before the StJohns/ MU game yesterday. You seem to have a real case of red ass about this kind of stuff.
They played Lift Every Voice and Sing" before the Marquette game? Awesome! Glad the crowd enjoyed it!
I haven't seen all of them, but Dunkin seems to be leading the commercials.
Golf is over. I finally flip to football and hit a Kennedy commercial.
Chiefs should go tempo to start the second half
Andy needs to draft a couple WRs at halftime.
MVS can't carry the whole load forever.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 07:01:41 PM
They played Lift Every Voice and Sing" before the Marquette game? Awesome! Glad the crowd enjoyed it!
For purposes of accuracy, I should not have said it was "played". A soloist offered a wonderful rendition.
Quote from: Dickthedribbler on February 11, 2024, 07:13:18 PM
For purposes of accuracy, I should not have said it was "played". A soloist offered a wonderful rendition.
Last Bucks game I was at had a quartet do the pregame. Sound was fantastic
JJ Watt's hair???
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 07:15:48 PM
Last Bucks game I was at had a quartet do the pregame. Sound was fantastic
Quartet's were the thing in 1983, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 11, 2024, 07:37:11 PM
Quartet's were the thing in 1983, aina?
So was Sidney Moncrief
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 07:23:32 PM
JJ Watt's hair???
I think he wanted his hair from when Usher was at his peak.
Feels like the biggest talking point out of this game may be how the Swifties reacted to Kelce screaming at and bumping Reid.
Should probably shout at and bump #15, hey?
Chiefs receivers not getting open at all.
That was a dumb play call.
Pretty sure Swift is chit faced, aina?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2024, 07:59:09 PM
That was a dumb play call.
Packers and Lions moved the ball against SF running motion and misdirection. Chiefs haven't done any of that. Very disappointing if you're a Chiefs fan
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 08:02:21 PM
Packers and Lions moved the ball against SF running motion and misdirection. Chiefs haven't done any of that. Very disappointing if you're a Chiefs fan
And the Niners have completely abandoned the run too. This game is pretty terrible.
What, hey?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 08:06:18 PM
And the Niners have completely abandoned the run too. This game is pretty terrible.
Shanahan special
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 08:06:18 PM
And the Niners have completely abandoned the run too. This game is pretty terrible.
This game has been a giant dud.
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2024, 08:14:10 PM
This game has been a giant dud.
Two good defenses. Can appreciate good defense
The defenses are attacking with authority and introducing darkness.
Chiefs have the game comfortably under control. SF can't move the ball on offensive. Chiefs will score on their next two possessions and that will be game over .
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 11, 2024, 08:18:52 PM
Chiefs have the game comfortably under control. SF can't move the ball on offensive. Chiefs will score on their next two possessions and that will be game over .
0-1, or not, lol
Whoops.
Did CMC get locked in a stall or something?
MVS playing with a QB that wins playoff games has to be a shock to the system
Looking forward to all the criticisms considering the Niners went for it on a 4th and 3 when a FG would have tied it
Anyone? Lenny's?
I liked the call.
That missed XP hurts Mrs. JWags.
Quote from: tower912 on February 11, 2024, 08:48:04 PM
I liked the call.
As team FG, I'd have kicked it. I would have been wrong. And then watching the XP, I'd possibly have been way wrong. 🤷🏼♂️
Ok this game has gotten good now.
Bad snap may have cost KC if they lose. A good snap and it's an easy 6 to Rice.
Think you want the ball second with the OT rules.
Wow. Huge penalty.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 09:20:09 PM
Think you want the ball second with the OT rules.
Agreed. I think you'd want to know what you need.
Chiefs looked gassed on d. Should use a TO on d
That was a catch? Thought the rule was if a receiver goes to the ground untouched, he needs to retain possession through the ground.
Why didn't they look at that reception?
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:33:40 PM
That was a catch? Thought the rule was if a receiver goes to the ground untouched, he needs to retain possession through the ground.
Two steps and a football move
This is why you want it second.
So it the Chiefs kick a FG to tie then what?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2024, 09:36:08 PM
So it the Chiefs kick a FG to tie then what?
Sudden death
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 11, 2024, 09:36:08 PM
So it the Chiefs kick a FG to tie then what?
Participation ribbons and juice boxes.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 09:35:15 PM
This is why you want it second.
Eh ... if you hold the Chiefa to a FG, you have the ball first in sudden death.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 09:34:02 PM
Two steps and a football move
I've seen similar plays ruled no catch this season, including ones that were ruled incomplete upon review.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 11, 2024, 09:37:19 PM
Eh ... if you hold the Chiefa to a FG, you have the ball first in sudden death.
Good thought.
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:37:24 PM
I've seen similar plays ruled no catch this season, including ones that were ruled incomplete upon review.
It's a booth review. They'd have overturned it if it was incomplete
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:37:24 PM
I've seen similar plays ruled no catch this season, including ones that were ruled incomplete upon review.
Are you suggesting the NFL is inconsistent in determining what is a catch?
Like the play call there. Mahomes running it with the game on the line.
What if the clock runs out?
Second OT.
Wow. That play could cost them the game.
Mahomes is pretty good.
This is a heck of a game.
GOAT jr.
Fixed. Biden will present the Lombardi trophy.
The guy is just that good. I think you already have to put him top 5 ever at QB? Top 3?
As brutal as Romo was all year, I thought he was outstanding today.
Niners giving them a free 10 yards on every play on the final regulation possession was so soft
Romo was very good today IMO.
5 Seasons. 4 Super Bowl Appearances, 3 Championships and surely 3 super bowl MVP's.
What's most impressive, his receiving corps this season was trash. Still won a title. He's unbelievable.
Quote from: Jockey on February 11, 2024, 09:48:24 PM
Fixed. Biden will present the Lombardi trophy.
https://x.com/joebiden/status/1756888470599967000?s=46&t=ppua9BCUAa7dWM9-SthPmg
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:51:33 PM
5 Seasons. 4 Super Bowl Appearances, 3 Championships and surely 3 super bowl MVP's.
What's most impressive, his receiving corps this season was trash. Still won a title. He's unbelievable.
I was gonna ask other than Kelce are any of these guys great? It sure doesn't seem so to me. Besides his tremendous physical talent he very rarely makes mistakes.
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:51:33 PM
5 Seasons. 4 Super Bowl Appearances, 3 Championships and surely 3 super bowl MVP's.
What's most impressive, his receiving corps this season was trash. Still won a title. He's unbelievable.
Like Brady, having a stout defense is nice to have.
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:51:33 PM
5 Seasons. 4 Super Bowl Appearances, 3 Championships and surely 3 super bowl MVP's.
What's most impressive, his receiving corps this season was trash. Still won a title. He's unbelievable.
The antithesis of Aaron Rodgers.
No excuses, just finding ways to win
Quote from: cheebs09 on February 11, 2024, 09:55:16 PM
Like Brady, having a stout defense is nice to have.
Chris Jones was a beast all night.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 11, 2024, 09:20:09 PM
Think you want the ball second with the OT rules.
My son and I were yelling, "No, you idiots! Play defense first!"
Quote from: MU82 on February 11, 2024, 09:58:30 PM
My son and I were yelling, "No, you idiots! Play defense first!"
Yeah. That was a mistake. Wondering if Shanahan is regretting that decision yet.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on February 11, 2024, 09:50:36 PM
Niners giving them a free 10 yards on every play on the final regulation possession was so soft
Yes, that was pathetic. Wilks failed the team.
Quote from: forgetful on February 11, 2024, 09:59:33 PM
Yeah. That was a mistake. Wondering if Shanahan is regretting that decision yet.
I liked it because KC was gassed on defense. They did get bailed out on the holding call but that's partially a part of being gassed
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 10:01:19 PM
I liked it because KC was gassed on defense. They did get bailed out on the holding call but that's partially a part of being gassed
That holding call was gigantic. It was a legit hold, however.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 11, 2024, 10:00:02 PM
Yes, that was pathetic. Wilks failed the team.
They brought pressure on 3rd and 6 and gave up 13 to Rice. The play that doomed them was the long Mahomes run. Romo hit it on the head, can't let him move north-south and on that play, the d lost the lanes
This MVP award is punter erasure. Townsend kept them in it until they woke up
My former boss' son plays for KC (and is a Brookfield native.) Been on the team two years, two rings.
He's a backup OL guy, only getting in during FGs and PATs, of which there were 13 points scored while he was on the field. Mahomes? Only 12. ;)
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 11, 2024, 10:01:19 PM
I liked it because KC was gassed on defense. They did get bailed out on the holding call but that's partially a part of being gassed
I get ya, Unk, but I respectfully disagree.
You want to know where you stand after your opponent has a possession, and I think that's doubly true with a guy like Mahomes on the other side. You also create some interesting decisions for Reid if KC faces, say, a 4th-and-2. I definitely play D first.
Had no idea about the new OT rules until tonight
Absolutely bonkers decision by the 49ers to choose to receiver first.
Per Shanahan, they wanted the 3rd possession when it's sudden death.
Also, crazy that the clock wouldn't end the chiefs first possession. They would have just switched sides and continued play.
Taking the ball first in overtime is so dumb with the new rule.
If you have the ball second, you will always have four downs to play with. Willingly taking it first adds unnecessary risk. Playing for the possibility of a sudden death possession on the third OT series? Come on. If you trade TD's on the first two OT possessions, the second team to score should always go for 2.
You're basically hoping for a FG/FG/FG scenario, just poor decision making.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 11, 2024, 11:07:37 PM
Per Shanahan, they wanted the 3rd possession when it's sudden death.
Also, crazy that the clock wouldn't end the chiefs first possession. They would have just switched sides and continued play.
Yeah just saw his interview. An even more insane comment. Making a decision based on a 3rd possession that isnt guaranteed.....unreal.
The clock rule was wild too. Had absolutely no idea that was a rule(crazy rule) until after the game.
Even more damning:
Several Niners players said Shanahan had never gone over the new OT rules with the team or discussed the various options.
The Chiefs, meanwhile, had numerous discussions about it beforehand.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39511676/49ers-players-say-know-super-bowl-rules
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 11, 2024, 11:00:39 PM
Had no idea about the new OT rules until tonight
Absolutely bonkers decision by the 49ers to choose to receiver first.
The biggest KC advantage in the game was Reid vs. Shanahan. All game.
Quote from: Jockey on February 12, 2024, 10:13:05 AM
The biggest KC advantage in the game was Reid vs. Shanahan. All game.
Not really, though. The offensive gameplan for the Chiefs was pretty poor. Had clear proof of concept of what had given the 9ers trouble in both of their Playoff games, and didn't really replicate that. The Chiefs defense is why they were even in the game at the end.
The biggest advantage, though, was Patrick Mahomes vs. Brock Purdy.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 10:25:48 AM
Not really, though. The offensive gameplan for the Chiefs was pretty poor. Had clear proof of concept of what had given the 9ers trouble in both of their Playoff games, and didn't really replicate that. The Chiefs defense is why they were even in the game at the end.
The biggest advantage, though, was Patrick Mahomes vs. Brock Purdy.
I agree with this. The KC offensive game plan was terrible. The timeout on 3rd and 1 when they didn't challenge the Kelce spot was bizarre, too.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 11, 2024, 11:00:39 PM
Had no idea about the new OT rules until tonight
Absolutely bonkers decision by the 49ers to choose to receiver first.
What's wild is that rule came about after the Chiefs-Bills AFC Championship a couple years back. Everyone thought the Bills deserved to have a possession in OT, and the Chiefs gained too big of an advantage from winning the coin toss. Of course, the rule gets changed and the first team that benefits from it is... the Chiefs.
Monkey's paw curls
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 10:25:48 AM
Not really, though. The offensive gameplan for the Chiefs was pretty poor. Had clear proof of concept of what had given the 9ers trouble in both of their Playoff games, and didn't really replicate that. The Chiefs defense is why they were even in the game at the end.
The biggest advantage, though, was Patrick Mahomes vs. Brock Purdy.
My statement was sort of hyperbole. Of course the biggest advantage was Mahomes vs. Purdy. But I thought Shanahan's play calling - especially the 1st 3 quarters was bizarre.
I think Reid did try to run the ball early, but Pacheco was getting next to nothing. I did think Andy went away from the run in the middle of the game which hurt them.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2024, 10:57:02 AM
I agree with this. The KC offensive game plan was terrible. The timeout on 3rd and 1 when they didn't challenge the Kelce spot was bizarre, too.
The play calling on the final drive of the first half was something else too. 2nd and 7 from the 11 and they went with a Rice inside run that got absolutely stuffed was such a weird call when they were cooking.
Quote from: Jockey on February 12, 2024, 11:02:13 AM
My statement was sort of hyperbole. Of course the biggest advantage was Mahomes vs. Purdy. But I thought Shanahan's play calling - especially the 1st 3 quarters was bizarre.
I think Reid did try to run the ball early, but Pacheco was getting next to nothing. I did think Andy went away from the run in the middle of the game which hurt them.
Shananhan was fine for the first two quarters. He was terrible in the 3rd quarter. Once they started running the ball again late, the offense started moving again.
McCaffrey's opening drive fumble was a killer as was them going 3 and out off the Mahomes pick.
Seeing some of the all-22 breakdowns and replay breakdowns and Purdy was really exposed last night. Missed a lot of opportunities and needed to do a better job with protections.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2024, 01:06:59 PM
Seeing some of the all-22 breakdowns and replay breakdowns and Purdy was really exposed last night. Missed a lot of opportunities and needed to do a better job with protections.
He was exposed all Playoffs. He's not very good.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 01:48:06 PM
He was exposed all Playoffs. He's not very good.
I remember when he got chirped about as an MVP candidate on ESPN earlier in the season, which was silly. Then he was thoroughly mediocre the next 2 weeks when they lost to the Browns and the Vikings.
He's a great story and good enough to be a low level NFL starter, but the Niners were clearly in trouble when their backs were against the wall and Purdy NEEDED to make big plays.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 12, 2024, 02:23:06 PM
I remember when he got chirped about as an MVP candidate on ESPN earlier in the season, which was silly. Then he was thoroughly mediocre the next 2 weeks when they lost to the Browns and the Vikings.
He's a great story and good enough to be a low level NFL starter, but the Niners were clearly in trouble when their backs were against the wall and Purdy NEEDED to make big plays.
Yup. The Niners are so stacked that they almost overcame having him be their quarterback to win a Super Bowl. But he's the epitome of a game manager. The problem is that when Shanahan goes pass heavy, he gives the defense multiple chances to turn him over.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2024, 11:35:19 AM
Shananhan was fine for the first two quarters. He was terrible in the 3rd quarter. Once they started running the ball again late, the offense started moving again.
McCaffrey's opening drive fumble was a killer as was them going 3 and out off the Mahomes pick.
3rd quarter was the difference. He call 1 run for Mccaffery in the 3 possessions that they had the lead in that quarter.
But taking the ball in overtime was the really stupid call. Basically saying, I'll take 3 downs and let you have 4 downs.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 02:24:28 PM
Yup. The Niners are so stacked that they almost overcame having him be their quarterback to win a Super Bowl. But he's the epitome of a game manager. The problem is that when Shanahan goes pass heavy, he gives the defense multiple chances to turn him over.
I missed it, how many turnovers did Purdy have?purdy was the least of their problems yesterday. Play calling, special teams, prevent defense on the last drive in the 4th quarter
Quote from: wadesworld on February 12, 2024, 10:25:48 AM
Not really, though. The offensive gameplan for the Chiefs was pretty poor. Had clear proof of concept of what had given the 9ers trouble in both of their Playoff games, and didn't really replicate that. The Chiefs defense is why they were even in the game at the end.
The biggest advantage, though, was Patrick Mahomes vs. Brock Purdy.
Agreed...I thought the chiefs offensive plan was pretty unimaginative. None of the outside zone stuff that gave them fits against the Packers and Lions. It was, dare I say, very McCarthyish.
Defense was fine. Got pressure in key moments. McDuffie is that dude on the back end
Quote from: lawdog77 on February 12, 2024, 06:39:13 PM
I missed it, how many turnovers did Purdy have?purdy was the least of their problems yesterday. Play calling, special teams, prevent defense on the last drive in the 4th quarter
Purdy was "the least of their problems?" He completed 60% of his passes for an average yard per attempt at 6.7. Those are Justin Fields type numbers. He missed multiple open receivers and was really only effective passing off of a successful running game.
And unlike Fields, he has multiple all pro players around him. He wasn't their biggest problem for sure, but he wasn't very good.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 06:51:20 PM
Purdy was "the least of their problems?" He completed 60% of his passes for an average yard per attempt at 6.7. Those are Justin Fields type numbers. He missed multiple open receivers and was really only effective passing off of a successful running game.
And unlike Fields, he has multiple all pro players around him. He wasn't their biggest problem for sure, but he wasn't very good.
This sums up my feeling:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/brock-purdy-stats-super-bowl-58-49ers-qb/b0cf35815ea91746fcf1b66b (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/brock-purdy-stats-super-bowl-58-49ers-qb/b0cf35815ea91746fcf1b66b)
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 06:51:20 PM
Purdy was "the least of their problems?" He completed 60% of his passes for an average yard per attempt at 6.7. Those are Justin Fields type numbers. He missed multiple open receivers and was really only effective passing off of a successful running game.
And unlike Fields, he has multiple all pro players around him. He wasn't their biggest problem for sure, but he wasn't very good.
This. No turnovers, but also unable to get the ball to anyone outside of screens and check downs to CMC. He was 8/19 to Kittle, Aiyuk, and Deebo. 8/8 to CMC. There are TONS of quarterbacks who would've led the 49ers to the Super Bowl. Especially with how the Chiefs played last night.
Honestly the special teams were worse than Purdy. But that's about the only thing that was worse for the Niners. CMC was his usual great. The OL gave him plenty of time. The defense was great. Purdy stunk.
Quote from: lawdog77 on February 12, 2024, 07:15:09 PM
This sums up my feeling:
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/brock-purdy-stats-super-bowl-58-49ers-qb/b0cf35815ea91746fcf1b66b (https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/brock-purdy-stats-super-bowl-58-49ers-qb/b0cf35815ea91746fcf1b66b)
Yeah this is really impressive. ::)
"Purdy didn't force the ball into coverage and didn't hold the ball long enough to succumb to the Chiefs' pass rush. He was sacked only once and avoided throwing an interception. He did miss a few throws, as he did earlier in the NFC playoffs, but he spread the ball around well to multiple targets despite downfield strikes to wide receiver Brandon Aiyuk and George Kittle not being there. The longest completion in the game didn't come until overtime, when running back Christian McCaffrey exploded for a 24-yard burst off a short catch."
He's an OK quarterback and they can obviously win with him given what's around him. I mean, they almost won four years ago with Jimmy Garoppolo.
But as the article said "he did miss a few throws." How can a quarterback that misses a few throws, be "the least of their problems?"
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:32:40 PM
Yeah this is really impressive. ::)
"Purdy didn't force the ball into coverage and didn't hold the ball long enough to succumb to the Chiefs' pass rush. He was sacked only once and avoided throwing an interception. He did miss a few throws, as he did earlier in the NFC playoffs, but he spread the ball around well to multiple targets despite downfield strikes to wide receiver Brandon Aiyuk and George Kittle not being there. The longest completion in the game didn't come until overtime, when running back Christian McCaffrey exploded for a 24-yard burst off a short catch."
He's an OK quarterback and they can obviously win with him given what's around him. I mean, they almost won four years ago with Jimmy Garoppolo.
But as the article said "he did miss a few throws." How can a quarterback that misses a few throws, be "the least of their problems?"
And for the most part, he had ample time in the pocket. KC struggled to generate a pass rush without blitzing.
I'd argue that was another of his issues, not recognizing where the blitz was coming from and fixing protection or finding the hot read.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 12, 2024, 07:35:51 PM
And for the most part, he had ample time in the pocket. KC struggled to generate a pass rush without blitzing.
I'd argue that was another of his issues, not recognizing where the blitz was coming from and fixing protection or finding the hot read.
Right. And some of that will come with experience. But his Quarterback Rating in the playoffs was about 25 points below his regular season rating. Trevor Lawrence-esque.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:41:46 PM
Right. And some of that will come with experience. But his Quarterback Rating in the playoffs was about 25 points below his regular season rating. Trevor Lawrence-esque.
Will it come with experience? Maybe.
49ers had a healthy McCaffrey for most of the year. Counting on that will be tough. Kittle and Aiyuk should be good for awhile.
Niners are the early betting favorite in '25, but man, I don't know
I just meant Purdy will read defenses better with experience. I think the Niners are going to be good because they have a lot of talent out there, but yeah I am not sure if Purdy is really the answer there. We will see.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:48:21 PM
I just meant Purdy will read defenses better with experience. I think the Niners are going to be good because they have a lot of talent out there, but yeah I am not sure if Purdy is really the answer there. We will see.
I have my doubts he gets much better at picking up defenses. It's possible. That lightbulb can go off. His arm is better than I thought. That first first down he converted was an incredible pass
The Dongslinger was terrible at it for almost two years before figuring it out, matching the arm talent with brains.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 12, 2024, 02:23:06 PM
I remember when he got chirped about as an MVP candidate on ESPN earlier in the season, which was silly. Then he was thoroughly mediocre the next 2 weeks when they lost to the Browns and the Vikings.
He's a great story and good enough to be a low level NFL starter, but the Niners were clearly in trouble when their backs were against the wall and Purdy NEEDED to make big plays.
Purdy did have a great year. He was an MVP candidate for most of the year until Jackson pulled away at the end. He led the league in yards per attempt (9.6), adjusted yards per attempt (9.9), passer rating (113.0), ESPN QBR (72.7), net yards per attempt (8.74), and adjusted net yards per attempt (9.01). By every metric, he was one of the league's best deep-ball passers.
Those calling Purdy a game manager is just lazy.
Purdy not making the plays needed isnt just his fault. Part of it is the playcalling, another part is the All Pro CB on KC, especially with Debo being hurt.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 12, 2024, 07:32:40 PM
Yeah this is really impressive. ::)
"Purdy didn't force the ball into coverage and didn't hold the ball long enough to succumb to the Chiefs' pass rush. He was sacked only once and avoided throwing an interception. He did miss a few throws, as he did earlier in the NFC playoffs, but he spread the ball around well to multiple targets despite downfield strikes to wide receiver Brandon Aiyuk and George Kittle not being there. The longest completion in the game didn't come until overtime, when running back Christian McCaffrey exploded for a 24-yard burst off a short catch."
He's an OK quarterback and they can obviously win with him given what's around him. I mean, they almost won four years ago with Jimmy Garoppolo.
But as the article said "he did miss a few throws." How can a quarterback that misses a few throws, be "the least of their problems?"
Mahimes.missed so.e throws to, but since they won, all is forgotten.
Things to blame before Purdy
Play calling
Special Teams
penalties
cmc fumble
not deferring in OT
???
Mahomes completed 73% of his passes with a ypa almost an entire yard better. He had a higher Quarterback Rating by 11 points despite throwing an INT. He also faced way more pressure than Purdy did for pretty much the entire game.
He was obviously better. Way better. You think it's just because he won? Lol. Cmon...
Quote from: lawdog77 on February 12, 2024, 07:58:17 PM
Purdy did have a great year. He was an MVP candidate for most of the year until Jackson pulled away at the end. He led the league in yards per attempt (9.6), adjusted yards per attempt (9.9), passer rating (113.0), ESPN QBR (72.7), net yards per attempt (8.74), and adjusted net yards per attempt (9.01). By every metric, he was one of the league's best deep-ball passers.
Those calling Purdy a game manager is just lazy.
Purdy not making the plays needed isnt just his fault. Part of it is the playcalling, another part is the All Pro CB on KC, especially with Debo being hurt.
How about the other 2 Playoff games?
He stinks. I'd take JJ McCarthy over him, and I don't see him doing well in the NFL.
The Super Bowl was the most watched TV event ever.
The psyop was a success.
Quote from: lawdog77 on February 12, 2024, 07:58:17 PM
Purdy not making the plays needed isnt just his fault. Part of it is the playcalling, another part is the All Pro CB on KC, especially with Debo being hurt.
I blame all the all-stars on offense. It's hard to carry a team with the best players.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 12, 2024, 08:55:15 PM
The Super Bowl was the most watched TV event ever.
The psyop was a success.
Too bad the league is doomed
I know the consensus is that the 49ers shouldn't have taken the ball first in OT but I think it was the right call for the 49ers.
I think the likelihood of the 49ers defense holding the chiefs to a FG or turning them over is a lot higher than the likelihood of Purdy leading them into the end zone in OT, even with 4 downs. Given that, their best hope is to win it in sudden death with a FG.
Obviously didn't work out, but did anyone have faith that the 49ers were going to win it once it got to OT? I think it they were going to win, it was going to be on a sudden death FG
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on February 13, 2024, 08:46:31 AM
I know the consensus is that the 49ers shouldn't have taken the ball first in OT but I think it was the right call for the 49ers.
I think the likelihood of the 49ers defense holding the chiefs to a FG or turning them over is a lot higher than the likelihood of Purdy leading them into the end zone in OT, even with 4 downs. Given that, their best hope is to win it in sudden death with a FG.
Obviously didn't work out, but did anyone have faith that the 49ers were going to win it once it got to OT? I think it they were going to win, it was going to be on a sudden death FG
I think the value of the knowledge of how they approach fourth downs is greater than all of that.
For instance, what would have KC done on the fourth and short deep in their territory had they had the ball first?
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 09:10:14 AM
I think the value of the knowledge of how they approach fourth downs is greater than all of that.
For instance, what would have KC done on the fourth and short deep in their territory had they had the ball first?
And SF had a3rd and 4 at the KC 9. Different play calls?
Can't play for a hypothetical series that may never happen. That's insane.
According to Yahoo Sports, Taylor Swift was shown on screen for a total of 54 seconds during the CBS telecast.
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2024, 09:56:00 AM
According to Yahoo Sports, Taylor Swift was shown on screen for a total of 54 seconds during the CBS telecast.
It's a shame millions of Americans boycotted the broadcast considering who little she was on the screen
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 09:10:14 AM
I think the value of the knowledge of how they approach fourth downs is greater than all of that.
For instance, what would have KC done on the fourth and short deep in their territory had they had the ball first?
100%
Quote from: lawdog77 on February 13, 2024, 09:35:26 AM
And SF had a3rd and 4 at the KC 9. Different play calls?
Yep.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 13, 2024, 06:38:58 AM
Too bad the league is doomed
Along with cable and ESPN.
Sports fans are doomed.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on February 13, 2024, 10:04:23 AM
It's a shame millions of Americans boycotted the broadcast considering who little she was on the screen
Add that to a hundred million or so who would have preferred an hour and 54 seconds of screen time and you've got more than a few dissatisfied customers.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on February 13, 2024, 09:10:14 AM
I think the value of the knowledge of how they approach fourth downs is greater than all of that.
For instance, what would have KC done on the fourth and short deep in their territory had they had the ball first?
Quote from: wadesworld on February 13, 2024, 09:40:54 AM
Can't play for a hypothetical series that may never happen. That's insane.
Normally id agree with you. Purdy going against the KC defense, i think at least opens it up to debate. There's just no way that Purdy would be able to outscore Mahomes on the first drive. Signed sealed delivered ;D
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2024, 11:56:23 AM
Add that to a hundred million or so who would have preferred an hour and 54 seconds of screen time and you've got more than a few dissatisfied customers.
Has to cost the NFL billions on their next TV deal
From Yahoo Sports:
There are lots of great Patrick Mahomes stats that help contextualize his greatness. This is my new favorite.
Since 2001, 56 QBs have led 125 drives in the NFL playoffs where it was the fourth quarter or overtime, there was under a minute to play, and the offensive team was either tied or trailed by 7 points or fewer at the start.
Of those 125 drives, only 40% saw the offensive team either tie the game or take the lead. Great QBs tend to have better success rates than average; Tom Brady, for instance, went 5-for-11 (46%), while Drew Brees went 3-for-6 (50%) and Aaron Rodgers was 3-for-4 (75%).
Then there's Patrick Mahomes, who is 7-for-7 (100%) in those situations — including both the game-tying drive at the end of regulation and the game-winning drive in overtime on Sunday night.
Yahoo Sports on the Taylor Swift Effect:
Super Bowl viewership was up 24% among females ages 18-24 and up 11% among females ages 12-17. Women also represented 47.5% of the total audience, an all-time high.