MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Cfollow on January 31, 2021, 03:37:21 PM
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Which guys flee the burning building that is a Wojo coached basketball team?
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I'm thinking all three
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I asked this not too long ago and the Projos knocked the question down.
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I'm thinking all three
Same. And then Wojo will act totally shocked and not actually answer questions about it
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I'm thinkin at halftime.
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Carton will try to go pro.
I think Garcia stays and Lewis transfers.
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The only thing Wojo can try and sell as reason to stay is there performance against WI and Creighton. I realize I am grasping at straws.
Garcia and Lewis should have professional basketball aspirations and I can't imagine they conclude Wojo helps them realize that dream.
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They will all be back unless they turn pro.
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All 3 elsewhere next year... either pro or another university.
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None! They all have the freedom they want.Up to them to play the best they can
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Zero.
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You are not Marquette fans with those pathetic remarks!
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Said this in other thread, bookmark it for off season. Carton declaring no matter what. Not transferring
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More if Wojo leaves than if he stays.
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where is carton going? i guess he could make a g leauge roster?
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More if Wojo leaves than if he stays.
Either way, that's okay. Players should do what they want/what they think is best for themselves
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More if Wojo leaves than if he stays.
That's the rub, either way it's another lost season. Wojo still coach = starting over with a new coach.
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If Wojo goes, all three are gone. Carton’s mom had to defend her son on Twitter from a pissed off MU fan after the game. Nice that the fan base is showing so much class. Billboard solicitation? Yeah, that is a good for the university and the program. One thing I know, the players love Wojo. This year is the worst year for a change—the entire cast can go without sitting out. So whomever would take Wojo’s place is going to have a massive rebuild. How many years do we want to spend on another rebuild? If it is warranted, it needs to wait a year.
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Carton apparently wants to be a pro and thinks he can get drafted. Good luck with his loose handle and inability to play well in more than spurts.
Garcia, who knows? He'd be a welcome transfer, but why leave? If he thinks he's ready for the pros, he should think about how he got shut down lately. He was a 5-star in HS, but gets regularly stuffed now that he's competing against people his own size.
Justin would also be welcomed elsewhere and I'd be sad to see him go. Don't think the league is a possibility for him given his size/mobility combination.
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If Wojo goes, all three are gone. Carton’s mom had to defend her son on Twitter from a pissed off MU fan after the game. Nice that the fan base is showing so much class. Billboard solicitation? Yeah, that is a good for the university and the program. One thing I know, the players love Wojo. This year is the worst year for a change—the entire cast can go without sitting out. So whomever would take Wojo’s place is going to have a massive rebuild. How many years do we want to spend on another rebuild? If it is warranted, it needs to wait a year.
Agree that the players love to play for Wojo and all would leave if he got canned. Although, aren’t we at the beginning of a massive rebuild now? Outside of Carton, Lewis, and Garcia which players on the current roster look to have potential to be solid contributors at some point in their MU career? Look how many points the bench scored today.
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Agree that the players love to play for Wojo and all would leave if he got canned. Although, aren’t we at the beginning of a massive rebuild now? Outside of Carton, Lewis, and Garcia which players on the current roster look to have potential to be solid contributors at some point in their MU career? Look how many points the bench scored today.
SO is that bench going to be the starting five next year if there is a change?
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is there any shred of evidence to support the idea justin or daws want out? i mean i get the vibe from dj was he wanted to play one more college year then go pro. but why the other two
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These players are going to have to show a-lot more to play in the Association. Frankly, their overall lack of quickness is a game breaker, aina?
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DJ is not even close to being an NBA player, today is a perfect example of having many open 3’s and made none. How about a jump shot? Not in his game. How is he going to score in the NBA, different game.
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is there any shred of evidence to support the idea justin or daws want out? i mean i get the vibe from dj was he wanted to play one more college year then go pro. but why the other two
IT IS A FREE TRANSFER YEAR. DO you think Garcia’s people will hear from Minnesota or Ohio State or Kentucky? You think the same guy that fostered the Trevor Mbakwe transfer is going to get involved? Of course. Garcia will be heavily recruited to transfer as will Maryland and others for Justin Lewis. Carton is not a pro at this time. Iowa gonna contact him?
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IT IS A FREE TRANSFER YEAR. DO you think Garcia’s people will hear from Minnesota or Ohio State or Kentucky? You think the same guy that fostered the Trevor Mbakwe transfer is going to get involved? Of course. Garcia will be heavily recruited to transfer as will Maryland and others for Justin Lewis. Carton is not a pro at this time. Iowa gonna contact him?
So let’s keep the bad coach so he can continue to underperform with these players? That makes no sense.
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IT IS A FREE TRANSFER YEAR. DO you think Garcia’s people will hear from Minnesota or Ohio State or Kentucky? You think the same guy that fostered the Trevor Mbakwe transfer is going to get involved? Of course. Garcia will be heavily recruited to transfer as will Maryland and others for Justin Lewis. Carton is not a pro at this time. Iowa gonna contact him?
i wasnt aware if you transfer after this season u automatically get to play next. i guess its more plausible then
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i wasnt aware if you transfer after this season u automatically get to play next. i guess its more plausible then
That could be an advantage to MU if they were to make a coaching change. The new coach would have his own connections to players. If there would be any off-season to accelerate a total rebuild, it would be this one.
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That could be an advantage to MU if they were to make a coaching change. The new coach would have his own connections to players. If there would be any off-season to accelerate a total rebuild, it would be this one.
Hear me out: the most likely scenario is a low D1 guy moving up or an assistant, as we have done. Where are the recruits coming from? The guys they are already recruiting? Are we prepared to have our incoming recruits re-open? Absolute worst time.
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Sounds like paralysis by analysis, aina?
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Hear me out: the most likely scenario is a low D1 guy moving up or an assistant, as we have done. Where are the recruits coming from? The guys they are already recruiting? Are we prepared to have our incoming recruits re-open? Absolute worst time.
What gives you faith about a Wojo coached team?
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What gives you faith about a Wojo coached team?
A Wojo coached team with Garcia, Lewis and Carton is better than a starting 5 of Akanno, Torrence, Elliott, Oso and Perez, no?
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isnt effed up to recruit players already on teams that havent annouced they are transferring etc
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Hear me out: the most likely scenario is a low D1 guy moving up or an assistant, as we have done. Where are the recruits coming from? The guys they are already recruiting? Are we prepared to have our incoming recruits re-open? Absolute worst time.
Is this Dodds? I've read some of his posts on the 247 website where he refers to "Mrs. Gato". If that's the case, the slurpery comes as no surprise.
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A Wojo coached team with Garcia, Lewis and Carton is better than a starting 5 of Akanno, Torrence, Elliott, Oso and Perez, no?
Not really. I would rather pull the bandaid off and move on.
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Is this Dodds? I've read some of his posts on the 247 website where he refers to "Mrs. Gato". If that's the case, the slurpery comes as no surprise.
Not “slurpery” and not Dodds. I just do not think this is the right time, for sure. I think this year MU will lose the core of this team if Wojo is dusted. I said this to someone I was texting with. I am 64 years old. I expect I have about a 10 year window to return to the promised land. I do not want MU to get into a massive rebuild based on my age. I would much prefer that Wojo is successful. Again, a low D1 Or top assistant isn’t likely to bring any highly sought recruits. We lose our seniors, our recruiting class and very likely Garcia, Lewis and Carton. So we will have a Dukiet style rebuild in a far more difficult situation. Not “slurpery” just facts.
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Is this Dodds? I've read some of his posts on the 247 website where he refers to "Mrs. Gato". If that's the case, the slurpery comes as no surprise.
Gato is certainly no Dodds. You spring chickens should get to know MU message board posters a bit - gato has been around a long time..
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Wojo is not getting us to the promised land. He likely isn’t going to become a better coach either.
Next year with a new coach will we be worse? Yes. Will we still be mediocre at best in 3 years with wojo? Yes.
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Not “slurpery” and not Dodds. I just do not think this is the right time, for sure. I think this year MU will lose the core of this team if Wojo is dusted. I said this to someone I was texting with. I am 64 years old. I expect I have about a 10 year window to return to the promised land. I do not want MU to get into a massive rebuild based on my age. I would much prefer that Wojo is successful. Again, a low D1 Or top assistant isn’t likely to bring any highly sought recruits. We lose our seniors, our recruiting class and very likely Garcia, Lewis and Carton. So we will have a Dukiet style rebuild in a far more difficult situation. Not “slurpery” just facts.
You most likely lose those players after next year anyway. If you think Wojo needs to go, which most people do, then you make the move this season and let the rebuild begin. What does one more year of average or slightly above get you?
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Not “slurpery” and not Dodds. I just do not think this is the right time, for sure. I think this year MU will lose the core of this team if Wojo is dusted. I said this to someone I was texting with. I am 64 years old. I expect I have about a 10 year window to return to the promised land. I do not want MU to get into a massive rebuild based on my age. I would much prefer that Wojo is successful. Again, a low D1 Or top assistant isn’t likely to bring any highly sought recruits. We lose our seniors, our recruiting class and very likely Garcia, Lewis and Carton. So we will have a Dukiet style rebuild in a far more difficult situation. Not “slurpery” just facts.
You'll never know until you try. Nothin' worse than to sink slowly into quicksand, aina?
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You'll never know until you try. Nothin' worse than to sink slowly into quicksand, aina?
The logic I expect from someone who uses the term “Aina.”
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If you think Wojo needs to go, which most people do
Your stats seem a bit off according to this poll:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61325.0
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The logic I expect from someone who uses the term “Aina.”
It's a hell of a lot better logic than you are using.
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By all means, lets stick w/the coach who has accomplished squat in 7 years. Yeah, double down on more of the same. What a brilliant strategy :o
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It's a hell of a lot better logic than you are using.
Nice conclusion but what are the facts that led you there? Are you saying that I am wrong that there would be massive player defections if Wojo is fired THIS YEAR?
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Your stats seem a bit off according to this poll:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61325.0
I think wojo will be back also. That's different than thinking he should be back.
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Nice conclusion but what are the facts that led you there? Are you saying that I am wrong that there would be massive player defections if Wojo is fired THIS YEAR?
There very well could be. And we could get the band back together next year if we held onto Wojo.
But to what end? You say you have ten years left to enjoy MU basketball. How does Wojo coming back get you closer to where you want this program to go?
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If Wojo goes, all three are gone. Carton’s mom had to defend her son on Twitter from a pissed off MU fan after the game. Nice that the fan base is showing so much class. Billboard solicitation? Yeah, that is a good for the university and the program. One thing I know, the players love Wojo. This year is the worst year for a change—the entire cast can go without sitting out. So whomever would take Wojo’s place is going to have a massive rebuild. How many years do we want to spend on another rebuild? If it is warranted, it needs to wait a year.
Hi Gato. What do you and Mrs. Gato suggest we do exactly? Because these are extremely troubling times for MU hoops.
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Hi Gato. What do you and Mrs. Gato suggest we do exactly? Because these are extremely troubling times for MU hoops.
Simple, he gets one more year. If the core group cannot do anything next year, let him go. However, I think Carton, Lewis and Garcia are really good and they will develop into very good players. If not, fine but we will be seeing several years worth of bad basketball—next year could be the worst since Dukiet if Wojo is axed this year.
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Nice conclusion but what are the facts that led you there? Are you saying that I am wrong that there would be massive player defections if Wojo is fired THIS YEAR?
What fluffy (sultan) said
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What fluffy (sultan) said
Walk me through it.
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Simple, he gets one more year. If the core group cannot do anything next year, let him go.
Generally, I agree with this. So far disappointing this year, but even ignoring financials , he gets next year still to win with this group. I still see lots of potential, and even opportunities to progress this year.
But posting on days of losses is depressing, only boo birds out.
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Walk me through it.
Lol, no. Go up about 5 posts
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I wouldn’t be so sure wojo will be here next year. Maybe y’all have heard differently, but from what I hear it’s not so certain.
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Generally, I agree with this. So far disappointing this year, but even ignoring financials , he gets next year still to win with this group. I still see lots of potential, and even opportunities to progress this year.
But posting on days of losses is depressing, only boo birds out.
So what is one more year going to tell you that the last 7 haven't
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So what is one more year going to tell you that the last 7 haven't
You can pretend that Wojo has had no success, but that's not accurate. You could also pretend he's never developed players, but that's also no accurate. It will tell me if he can retain the young talented players he's acquired, and develop them into a better team.
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Simple, he gets one more year. If the core group cannot do anything next year, let him go. However, I think Carton, Lewis and Garcia are really good and they will develop into very good players. If not, fine but we will be seeing several years worth of bad basketball—next year could be the worst since Dukiet if Wojo is axed this year.
I fully agree that this trio has great potential. And I really like the potential of Aidoo. My concern Gato is that developing players hasn't been a strong suit during the past 7 yrs. But I have tremendous respect for you and Mrs.Gato and appreciate your thoughts. Frankly, I don't like this particular speculation at any time, ever.
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You can pretend that Wojo has had no success, but that's not accurate. You could also pretend he's never developed players, but that's also no accurate. It will tell me if he can retain the young talented players he's acquired, and develop them into a better team.
I define success as winning tournament games, (at least one frickin game in 7 years).
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I fully agree that this trio has great potential. And I really like the potential of Aidoo. My concern Gato is that developing players hasn't been a strong suit during the past 7 yrs. But I have tremendous respect for you and Mrs.Gato and appreciate your thoughts. Frankly, I don't like this particular speculation at any time, ever.
Player development should not be much of a discussion as we have seen with Sacar Anim. Sacar is Exhibit A that Wojo can develop players. Look at Theo from his freshman year foul fest to today. He can and has developed players. Mrs. Gato is much more inclined to give Wojo a pass this year because of COVID. She points to the slow development of players at Duke and Kentucky as Exhibit A. She also thinks the virus plays with the minds of all of these kids so she is much more inclined to let this year go and move on to next year. I am not as forgiving but I truly believe he needs one more year with Garcia, Lewis and Carton.
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Maybe we can finish .500 if he sticks around next season!!
Then he gets canned and we start over. Or we start over right away? Why delay the inevitable with a lame duck coach. (Financial situation not withstanding)
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Maybe we can finish .500 if he sticks around next season!!
Then he gets canned and we start over. Or we start over right away? Why delay the inevitable with a lame duck coach. (Financial situation not withstanding)
Because just maybe the core develops going into next year and they take another step up?
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I wouldn’t be so sure wojo will be here next year. Maybe y’all have heard differently, but from what I hear it’s not so certain.
Oh, pleeze, pleeze.
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I wouldn’t be so sure wojo will be here next year. Maybe y’all have heard differently, but from what I hear it’s not so certain.
(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/collegian.psu.edu/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/8c/08c80dcc-4976-11e9-bd81-7b5ae0bc4074/5c8f8987afd2c.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C799)
Wardle Natty 2022 baby!
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i wasnt aware if you transfer after this season u automatically get to play next. i guess its more plausible then
Only for the first transfer. Carton would have to sit since it’s his second transfer.
Moving forward there will be no sitting out for first time transfers. It’s going be an absolute free for all and will ruin the college game. Basically free agency every year. Look at the big dude who had no offers and was overweight who a Drake took a chance on, developed, and got poached by Minnesota. Or Rowsey on our end.
Other sports like soccer have this right now and the amount of poaching that goes on is ridiculous.
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Player development should not be much of a discussion as we have seen with Sacar Anim. Sacar is Exhibit A that Wojo can develop players. Look at Theo from his freshman year foul fest to today. He can and has developed players. Mrs. Gato is much more inclined to give Wojo a pass this year because of COVID. She points to the slow development of players at Duke and Kentucky as Exhibit A. She also thinks the virus plays with the minds of all of these kids so she is much more inclined to let this year go and move on to next year. I am not as forgiving but I truly believe he needs one more year with Garcia, Lewis and Carton.
We may have different expectations with regards to player development. There is no question Anim and others have gotten better during their 4 yr careers. Everyone gets better from their Freshman to Sr. season Gato, it's about whether or not he can develop players from good to prime-time contributors? This is where I am not sold Gato but by no means am I trying to besmirch you or Mrs. Gato. I have just seen many guys the last number of years stagnate and not reach their potential.
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Because just maybe the core develops going into next year and they take another step up?
The next step from this year to next year would be 500 no?
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We may have different expectations with regards to player development. There is no question Anim and others have gotten better during their 4 yr careers. Everyone gets better from their Freshman to Sr. season Gato, it's about whether or not he can develop players from good to prime-time contributors? This is where I am not sold Gato but by no means am I trying to besmirch you or Mrs. Gato. I have just seen many guys the last number of years stagnate and not reach their potential.
Player development is somewhat ambiguous because you dont know how much a player naturally develops from freshmen to senior and how much of that development is because of coaching. People have mentioned Theo and I am happy he has made an improvement this year, but I still see him making some of the mistakes he made as a freshman. Is that on him or Wojo?
The bottom line for me is while Wojo has recruited some higher level players, he hasn't recruited a complete functional team. Always something missing. This year it is lack of talented depth.
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Player development is somewhat ambiguous because you dont know how much a player naturally develops from freshmen to senior and how much of that development is because of coaching. People have mentioned Theo and I am happy he has made an improvement this year, but I still see him making some of the mistakes he made as a freshman. Is that on him or Wojo?
The bottom line for me is while Wojo has recruited some higher level players, he hasn't recruited a complete functional team. Always something missing. This year it is lack of talented depth.
If we cannot comment on development of players, it would seem the equivalent countervailing theory is that we cannot criticize Wojo on player development because we cannot tell how much is due to coaching. Your words.
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If we cannot comment on development of players, it would seem the equivalent countervailing theory is that we cannot criticize Wojo on player development because we cannot tell how much is due to coaching. Your words.
I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and his results over 6.5 years.
Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.
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I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and his results over 6.5 years.
Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.
For the third year straight, and arguably the fourth time in five, they are getting worse as the season drags on. Why prolong this? (I mean, I know why they might.) I just don't think we can expect him to change his approach.
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I think people have hit on the main dilemma. Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term. At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast. It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs? My head is spinning all over the place right now. All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations.
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I think people have hit on the main dilemma. Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term. At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast. It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs? My head is spinning all over the place right now. All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations.
Talent has never been an issue in the last seven years. Anyone who thinks anything will completely change moving forward is either a blind optimist or is “close” to the program and feels bad for Wojo for what they’re going through.
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I think people have hit on the main dilemma. Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term. At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast. It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs? My head is spinning all over the place right now. All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations.
If the goal is to peak at 30 KenPom ranked team then I guess we take a hit. IMO, It’s not like it can get much worse in that apathy is at peak levels since the late 90s.
People have been using the ‘reset’ as a boogie man for not moving on. This is college basketball—the easiest sport to reset in.
Kenpom rankings:
21-74
20-31
19-33
18-53
17-32
16-97
15-93
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I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and his results over 6.5 years.
Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.
Are you f’ing kidding me? A top 10 team? That’s one of the more irrational things I have ever heard.
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I think that's a fair point of view Panda but we have not had three young players come back that have been 1, 2, 3 . I'm not defending Wpjp but trying to look at this from all angles. But to your point I think most fans have very little confidence in the leadership running the program.
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Are you f’ing kidding me? A top 10 team? That’s one of the more irrational things I have ever heard.
After the Creighton win that's what I said. The team looked good, obviously there is talent, they had just defeated two highly ranked teams. That's not an irrational thing to say at that point at all, so settle down on the attacks. What the hell is wrong with you.
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Are you f’ing kidding me? A top 10 team? That’s one of the more irrational things I have ever heard.
Akanno is -150 for NPOY next year at my sports book
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I get what you’re saying, but we have nothing behind those three guys.
Elliott would be a senior and he is not a contributor.
Torrence is way over his head.
Akanno and Oso can’t even get off the bench.
Perez? Who knows with him. It’s a bizarre situation.
Then the freshmen coming in - Again total question marks.
*edit - And the coach stays. Anyone expecting different results is searching for fools gold.
It ain’t getting much better than this.
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After the Creighton win that's what I said. The team looked good, obviously there is talent, they had just defeated two highly ranked teams. That's not an irrational thing to say at that point at all, so settle down on the attacks. What the hell is wrong with you.
Nothing is wrong with me. The core of this team stays, we are probably not much better next year because beyond that core, we have a bunch of nothing.
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Nothing is wrong with me. The core of this team stays, we are probably not much better next year because beyond that core, we have a bunch of nothing.
Of course, that's now. The team looked pretty damn good after that Creighton win didnt they. What has happened since then of course changes the outlook now, but there was quite a bit of optimism at that time.
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I get what you’re saying, but we have nothing behind those three guys.
Elliott would be a senior and he is not a contributor.
Torrence is way over his head.
Akanno and Oso can’t even get off the bench.
Perez? Who knows with him. It’s a bizarre situation.
Then the freshmen coming in - Again total question marks.
*edit - And the coach stays. Anyone expecting different results is searching for fools gold.
It ain’t getting much better than this.
Fair points and I generally agree with you. This whole thing is like a combination of a massive migraine and a root canal.
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Of course, that's now. The team looked pretty damn good after that Creighton win didnt they. What has happened since then of course changes the outlook now, but there was quite a bit of optimism at that time.
No that was then too. The roster today is the same as the roster the day we beat Creighton.
Look, I was optimistic earlier this year too so I get it. But it’s become crystal clear that next year is going to look like this year or more likely worse.
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No that was then too. The roster today is the same as the roster the day we beat Creighton.
Look, I was optimistic earlier this year too so I get it. But it’s become crystal clear that next year is going to look like this year or more likely worse.
You said it "it's become crystal clear" no, it wasnt then.
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Because just maybe the core develops going into next year and they take another step up?
And the chances of that happening? We’ll be thin on the front court and losing experience in the backcourt.
With essentially one senior and no experienced juniors, we will hear time and time again that the team is young.
And all that assumes no transfers out. Care to wager on that not happening?
I’ve seen this movie before and don’t like the ending.
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Carton will try to go pro.
I think Garcia stays and Lewis transfers.
Carton has not been a very good college player - nowhere near ready to move up.
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Transfer? My guess is none. Carton I expect to go pro but hope he won't. Garcia may go pro but I think he comes back. Lewis isn't going anywhere.
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Carton has not been a very good college player - nowhere near ready to move up.
Do you remember Brendan Bailey?
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Do you remember Brendan Bailey?
All-timer, hey?
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If Wojo returns, I think all three would be back. They'd all start and get 30-35 minutes per game, they'd all have carte blanche, and they appear to genuinely like Wojo, Killings and the rest of the coaches.
If Wojo gets canned or moves on, the rebuild officially starts. Any or all of them could leave. I am not saying it shouldn't happen. In fact, I'm saying the opposite.
I'd fire Wojo today, make Killings the interim coach and get a head start on the search.
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This is absolutely disgusting that we are even talking about this. Why can’t we give these players and this team some respect?!? Is that too much to ask?
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This is absolutely disgusting that we are even talking about this. Why can’t we give these players and this team some respect?!? Is that too much to ask?
It is a fair topic, and one that can be discussed respectfully. For example, what about my post (directly above your comment) is disrespectful?
Agree that nobody should be ripping these young men who give so much of their time and sweat to entertain us and who represent our alma mater with class, but I'm not seeing a lot of that here thankfully.
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It is a fair topic, and one that can be discussed respectfully. For example, what about my post (directly above your comment) is disrespectful?
More talking about the overall topic of which players will transfer and whether or not the coach should be retained. What about the future recruits? All of this talk is a stain on our reputation. It looks bad to recruits, the conference, the tv partners, etc. Who is going to want to come to our program/ partner with us if the fans are so disrespectful?
Support what we have right now.
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More talking about the overall topic of which players will transfer and whether or not the coach should be retained. What about the future recruits? All of this talk is a stain on our reputation. It looks bad to recruits, the conference, the tv partners, etc. Who is going to want to come to our program/ partner with us if the fans are so disrespectful?
Support what we have right now.
I like your tone and your mission, my friend, but that's simply not realistic.
Every school's basketball fanboard vents frustration when things aren't going well. Players, recruits and their parents should stay far, far away.
And the coach definitely is fair game. He is well-paid and his job is to win basketball games.
Have a good night.
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I like your tone and your mission, my friend, but that's simply not realistic.
Every school's basketball fanboard vents frustration when things aren't going well. Players, recruits and their parents should stay far, far away.
And the coach definitely is fair game. He is well-paid and his job is to win basketball games.
Have a good night.
NONE OF THEM!!
THEY CAN GO TO THE FINAL FOUR NEXT YEAR! STAY WHERE YOU ARE! WRITE THIS YEAR OFF....AND RELAX!~
They are just fine! Run it back, don't......run! Come on now! Great potential for this team. I see it and I don't say or type stuff just to type it!
None of them should leave. In fact, 1 or two of the seniors it would not hurt to come back. Tough losses for sure but only by less than 5.
If there were crowds it might have got them through them all as young freshman and sophomores play at even a higher level in crunch time. Have good vibes about this team moving forward..
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Seriously, do any of these 3 three have a remote chance of being drafted in the NBA after this season? Going to Europe or anywhere not in the NBA, sure...
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I like your tone and your mission, my friend, but that's simply not realistic.
Every school's basketball fanboard vents frustration when things aren't going well. Players, recruits and their parents should stay far, far away.
And the coach definitely is fair game. He is well-paid and his job is to win basketball games.
Have a good night.
Not like this one. This board is over the top on their negativity and criticism like few others that is not warranted. What do you expect in a year like this? And believe me I am not one to make excuses.
The recruits should be fired up to come here next year, and the MU Brand is all over the NBA. The would be nuts to waver now. And no they should not let Wojo go! There is improvement.
Next season if all goes well LOOK OUT! High energy, play hard on both ends, coaches are invest in their development and they look hungry and have worked on their games.
Not only that I think the isolation and pandemic has made them stronger and tighter as a unit. All things an A.D should want to see. I stand encouraged. . . even after tough losses. In fact, I welcome them for a few of the underclassmen.
But next year, oh wait. Then you can start to judge, not now.
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If Wojo returns, I think all three would be back. They'd all start and get 30-35 minutes per game, they'd all have carte blanche, and they appear to genuinely like Wojo, Killings and the rest of the coaches.
If Wojo gets canned or moves on, the rebuild officially starts. Any or all of them could leave. I am not saying it shouldn't happen. In fact, I'm saying the opposite.
I'd fire Wojo today, make Killings the interim coach and get a head start on the search.
delusional. I swear by Wojo. he was hit by some early defections from kids who left early and is an excellent coach. You fans would whine about any coach they bring in here.
THIS IS NOT A BLUE BLOOD UNIVERSITY PEOPLE...you have to take time to work up to it!
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More if Wojo leaves than if he stays.
Spoken like a true Wojo Worshipper....and now cue up your attorney to come to your defense.
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OK, of the Big 3, none will leave if Wojo stays. If he leaves, I would gather all would rather wait and see who would be the head coach.
Of our team, I suspect Akanno and Torrence probably are gone. Perez is a total unknown and Oso depends on whether he and his handlers feel he is better off elsewhere. I can’t see Oso going to another Power 6 team at this time.
Elliott is an unknown as well. He is a role player with us. If he wants to start and contribute, I suspect he’ll be looking at a mid-major, like Loyola or SIU.
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Not like this one. This board is over the top on their negativity and criticism like few others that is not warranted. What do you expect in a year like this? And believe me I am not one to make excuses.
The recruits should be fired up to come here next year, and the MU Brand is all over the NBA. The would be nuts to waver now. And no they should not let Wojo go! There is improvement.
Next season if all goes well LOOK OUT! High energy, play hard on both ends, coaches are invest in their development and they look hungry and have worked on their games.
Not only that I think the isolation and pandemic has made them stronger and tighter as a unit. All things an A.D should want to see. I stand encouraged. . . even after tough losses. In fact, I welcome them for a few of the underclassmen.
But next year, oh wait. Then you can start to judge, not now.
I'm not sure how many fan boards of other schools you look at, but I look at none.
However, many times over the years I've been on Scoop, fellow Scoopers have posted strings showing meltdowns on other boards. By and large, they make Scoop look tame.
Otherwise, I like your optimism about the future and, if Wojo is retained, I hope you are right.
Of course, if Wojo is retained and the team sucks next season, it surely will be his last one at Marquette.
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OK, of the Big 3, none will leave if Wojo stays. If he leaves, I would gather all would rather wait and see who would be the head coach.
Of our team, I suspect Akanno and Torrence probably are gone. Perez is a total unknown and Oso depends on whether he and his handlers feel he is better off elsewhere. I can’t see Oso going to another Power 6 team at this time.
Elliott is an unknown as well. He is a role player with us. If he wants to start and contribute, I suspect he’ll be looking at a mid-major, like Loyola or SIU.
Elliott has been a "contributor" in several games this season, and he was a major reason we beat Creighton and St. John's. Now, he might want more run (and perhaps a starting gig), and if that's true he probably will have to step down a level as you say.
I definitely could see Torrence moving down a level, too ... though if DJ goes he probably would be motivated to stay.
Akanno, it's totally unfair to judge him due to his unique situation, and obviously he is ahead of Oso and Perez, so I hope he comes back so we can see how good he really can be. People have compared him to Sacar; if that's an accurate comparison, folks need to remember that Sacar didn't get meaningful playing time until his third year at Marquette, and didn't really become a Big East player until his fourth year.
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Not like this one. This board is over the top on their negativity and criticism like few others that is not warranted. What do you expect in a year like this? And believe me I am not one to make excuses.
The recruits should be fired up to come here next year, and the MU Brand is all over the NBA. The would be nuts to waver now. And no they should not let Wojo go! There is improvement.
Next season if all goes well LOOK OUT! High energy, play hard on both ends, coaches are invest in their development and they look hungry and have worked on their games.
Not only that I think the isolation and pandemic has made them stronger and tighter as a unit. All things an A.D should want to see. I stand encouraged. . . even after tough losses. In fact, I welcome them for a few of the underclassmen.
But next year, oh wait. Then you can start to judge, not now.
Sorry, but I can't judge now if I want to. There is nothing in Wojo's history here that leads me to believe that your statement above is anything but over-the-top optimism.
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delusional. I swear by Wojo. he was hit by some early defections from kids who left early and is an excellent coach. You fans would whine about any coach they bring in here.
THIS IS NOT A BLUE BLOOD UNIVERSITY PEOPLE...you have to take time to work up to it!
Wojo is not an "excellent coach". Seven years of poor to middling results bear that out, and so does our most recent three game swoon against the bottom half of a bad conference. No one on here has said Marquette is a blue blood. What most seem to expect is a team that's consistently ranked in the Top 25, competes for Big East titles, and makes the tournament every year, with the occasional mulligan once every 5 or 6 seasons brought on by early defections or injuries. That's what we had under Crean and Buzz, and any coach worth his salt could attain it given the resources at hand.
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delusional. I swear by Wojo. he was hit by some early defections from kids who left early and is an excellent coach. You fans would whine about any coach they bring in here.
THIS IS NOT A BLUE BLOOD UNIVERSITY PEOPLE...you have to take time to work up to it!
You trolling or serious? I genuinely can't tell
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Wojo posting from his Scoop burner at midnight after another disastrous loss feels on brand.
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Wojo posting from his Scoop burner at midnight after another disastrous loss feels on brand.
Haha! +1
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I am actually starting to believe that next year could actually be worse without a transfer in of some sort. Theo, Koby and Jamal aren't super stars by any stretch but that's a lot of minutes to replace with unproven players.
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I am actually starting to believe that next year could actually be worse without a transfer in of some sort. Theo, Koby and Jamal aren't super stars by any stretch but that's a lot of minutes to replace with unproven players.
Exactly three freshmen incoming along with Akanno, Oso and perez who have barely played. Add in Symir who looks in over his head. Why would it get much better?
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I am actually starting to believe that next year could actually be worse without a transfer in of some sort. Theo, Koby and Jamal aren't super stars by any stretch but that's a lot of minutes to replace with unproven players.
I was having this discussion yesterday. Sure, you get DJ, Justin, & Dawson back, but what else? And if even one of those leaves, you're really in trouble.
They will need significant immediate impact from Aidoo & Mitchell or some serious immediate impact level transfers. In addition, the three returning players are all streaky. At the moment, I think next year MU is most likely bottom three in the league.
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Right. Who's going to be that first forward off the bench assuming Lewis starts? Osa? Jose?
Is Aidoo starting immediately in Theo's role?
Say Greg starts next to DJ in the backcourt, you have Sy, Stevie or Kam as back ups.
None of this sounds very good to me.
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I am actually starting to believe that next year could actually be worse without a transfer in of some sort. Theo, Koby and Jamal aren't super stars by any stretch but that's a lot of minutes to replace with unproven players.
Yea. The one thing that could be a game changer is if Lewis, Garcia, and Carton are more consistent from 3. The Garcia and Lewis shooting has really come back down to earth after a pretty good start. At least from my eye test.
But we are only going 7.5 deep, and even that is pretty iffy. The drop off after that group must be really big if with Lewis out, we only get a few minutes from Akanno.
Other than Carton and maybe Theo, it feels like most guys are a step slow or really methodical. Or when they try and go fast, it ends in a turnover. I don’t know how an extra year of development fixes that. I don’t know if the recruits we have coming in are goi by to be ready to play like Lewis, or need some time like Osa and Akanno.
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Right. Who's going to be that first forward off the bench assuming Lewis starts? Osa? Jose?
Is Aidoo starting immediately in Theo's role?
Say Greg starts next to DJ in the backcourt, you have Sy, Stevie or Kam as back ups.
None of this sounds very good to me.
Agreed. That’s why I push back with Gato’s assertion that we have to run this back. The closest Wojo built to a complete team was 2019. Other than that, we’ve had talent, but it just doesn’t seem to be a unit out there. It seems to be 5 individuals rather than a team.
I think if I had to bet, what would be the best route to a Final Four in 10 years, it would be Wojo moving on after this year and hiring a new coach to implement their system.
Heck, it’s likely we’d have another coaching change within that 10 years. We’ve seen 7 years from Wojo and the best I can come up with is the Herb Kohl Bucks. Good enough to be an 8 seed, but not really a threat.
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Agreed. That’s why I push back with Gato’s assertion that we have to run this back. The closest Wojo built to a complete team was 2019. Other than that, we’ve had talent, but it just doesn’t seem to be a unit out there. It seems to be 5 individuals rather than a team.
I think if I had to bet, what would be the best route to a Final Four in 10 years, it would be Wojo moving on after this year and hiring a new coach to implement their system.
Heck, it’s likely we’d have another coaching change within that 10 years. We’ve seen 7 years from Wojo and the best I can come up with is the Herb Kohl Bucks. Good enough to be an 8 seed, but not really a threat.
Do we really need to be talking about another man’s job right now? Where is the class by this fan base? We should be focused on supporting this team as best we can. None of us are in a position to shake up things at the top so it’s best for us to fulfill our role as fans and support the team!
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Do we really need to be talking about another man’s job right now? Where is the class by this fan base? We should be focused on supporting this team as best we can. None of us are in a position to shake up things at the top so it’s best for us to fulfill our role as fans and support the team!
How many burners do you have?
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How many burners do you have?
Yep. Exact same writing style as MUHoopsFan2.
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Wojo posting from his Scoop burner at midnight after another disastrous loss feels on brand.
Ha, MUHoopsFan has been around for awhile, long before Wojo. His MO is to post 6-7 times in the middle of the night on multiple threads, usually with a very Pollyanna lens before disappearing for weeks to a month.
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Do we really need to be talking about another man’s job right now? Where is the class by this fan base? We should be focused on supporting this team as best we can. None of us are in a position to shake up things at the top so it’s best for us to fulfill our role as fans and support the team!
It's not like we're talking about the hard working blue collar guy that worries how he's going to feed his family and pay the mortgage. Wojo is a multimillionaire and essentially the CEO of basketball. We're the shareholders, he's not performing so it's our job to talk about it without the "another mans job" concern.
What do you mean the "class" yes a billboard is classless, but an anonymous board of fans talking about how frustrated they are after years of frustration is not classless, berating a players family on social media is.
What does it mean to "support this team" bottom line is without being in the stands there's nothing we can do except not be d*cks on social media. None of us owe this team our time and tears to watch bad basketball. There are a handful of posters here that are a step or two away from people who could make a shakeup happen and if word gets to those individuals then good.
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Exactly three freshmen incoming along with Akanno, Oso and perez who have barely played. Add in Symir who looks in over his head. Why would it get much better?
Well, theoretically anyway, those three would get quite a bit better, just as Markus, Sam, Vander, Jimmy, etc, etc (name any good player) got much better as sophomores and/or juniors. Garcia would get stronger. All would improve aspects of their games.
I mean, Sam and Markus were role players as freshmen, averaging 9 and 6 shots per game, respectively. Vander was an offensive bust his first 2 seasons. Jimmy averaged fewer than 20 mpg his first season at MU, and again that was after being a Juco standout. And so on and so on.
That doesn't mean Dawson, Justin and DJ will improve to the degree that Markus, Sam, Vander, Jimmy and so many others did. But it's certainly not ridiculous to think they will be quite a bit better next season.
If they do become consistently very good players, it immediately makes next season more hopeful. Their supporting cast would be either young, unproven or both, but if the "big 3" come back and get any support at all, I don't think we'd be doomed to failure like some here do.
Having said all that, I'd fire Wojo because I no longer trust that he could put 'em all together to make for a contending team ... even though a ProJo could argue otherwise based on how the 2018-19 team gelled until the Hausershima Mutiny.
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Yep. Exact same writing style as MUHoopsFan2.
While I’m sure MUHoopsFan2 enjoys the support. I am not him/her.
I fully support fans wanting a new coach. I just don’t like seeing it on such a public forum like this.
Don’t you think current players, recruits, coaches, parents, etc. are reading this? I’m sure a lot of the conversation on here isn’t helping with their perception of MU.
I don’t think Dawson, DJ and others like to see themselves being written out of being a part of the team.
We have to take some responsibility as MU fans (and for most on here, alumni) to protect MU’s reputation and foster an environment of support.
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While I’m sure MUHoopsFan2 enjoys the support. I am not him/her.
I fully support fans wanting a new coach. I just don’t like seeing it on such a public forum like this.
Don’t you think current players, recruits, coaches, parents, etc. are reading this? I’m sure a lot of the conversation on here isn’t helping with their perception of MU.
I don’t think Dawson, DJ and others like to see themselves being written out of being a part of the team.
We have to take some responsibility as MU fans (and for most on here, alumni) to protect MU’s reputation and foster an environment of support.
Sorry but that's part of what these forums are about. Complaining about that isn't going to change anything.
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It's not like we're talking about the hard working blue collar guy that worries how he's going to feed his family and pay the mortgage. Wojo is a multimillionaire and essentially the CEO of basketball. We're the shareholders, he's not performing so it's our job to talk about it without the "another mans job" concern.
What do you mean the "class" yes a billboard is classless, but an anonymous board of fans talking about how frustrated they are after years of frustration is not classless, berating a players family on social media is.
What does it mean to "support this team" bottom line is without being in the stands there's nothing we can do except not be d*cks on social media. None of us owe this team our time and tears to watch bad basketball. There are a handful of posters here that are a step or two away from people who could make a shakeup happen and if word gets to those individuals then good.
An online message board is quite the same as a billboard in my opinion.
Sure you don’t have Joe Schmo driving to work seeing a billboard that says “Fire Wojo”, but was he ever the target audience in the first place?
Instead, on this message board you have an audience of people from hardcore fans to someone stopping by to get a little more insight into MUBB. The latter is the most impressionable in my opinion and for them to be exposed to this rhetoric against Wojo, the players and the administration is not a good look. We are turning off new fans from becoming more interested in the program!
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We are turning off new fans from becoming more interested in the program!
The program's doing a great job of that on its own.
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Well, theoretically anyway, those three would get quite a bit better, just as Markus, Sam, Vander, Jimmy, etc, etc (name any good player) got much better as sophomores and/or juniors. Garcia would get stronger. All would improve aspects of their games.
I mean, Sam and Markus were role players as freshmen, averaging 9 and 6 shots per game, respectively. Vander was an offensive bust his first 2 seasons. Jimmy averaged fewer than 20 mpg his first season at MU, and again that was after being a Juco standout. And so on and so on.
That doesn't mean Dawson, Justin and DJ will improve to the degree that Markus, Sam, Vander, Jimmy and so many others did. But it's certainly not ridiculous to think they will be quite a bit better next season.
If they do become consistently very good players, it immediately makes next season more hopeful. Their supporting cast would be either young, unproven or both, but if the "big 3" come back and get any support at all, I don't think we'd be doomed to failure like some here do.
Having said all that, I'd fire Wojo because I no longer trust that he could put 'em all together to make for a contending team ... even though a ProJo could argue otherwise based on how the 2018-19 team gelled until the Hausershima Mutiny.
I’m not saying you personally, but fans generally overestimate their own teams talent/depth level. If none of the covid seniors return, it’s going to be a slog.
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An online message board is quite the same as a billboard in my opinion.
Sure you don’t have Joe Schmo driving to work seeing a billboard that says “Fire Wojo”, but was he ever the target audience in the first place?
Instead, on this message board you have an audience of people from hardcore fans to someone stopping by to get a little more insight into MUBB. The latter is the most impressionable in my opinion and for them to be exposed to this rhetoric against Wojo, the players and the administration is not a good look. We are turning off new fans from becoming more interested in the program!
Pretty sure the product on the court is doing the turning off new fans from becoming more interested in the program fine enough.
You're right that some people may or may not come to this board, outside of John Dawson's dad and cousin we'll never know how many. But that is part of playing big time sports. You become a public figure and open to criticism that you wouldn't at a small school or less major sport. I do agree with you about not going too hard on the players and I try to avoid that (except for Buycks missed layup against Louisville) but the coach is the highest paid employee and should be held to accountable and certainly is open for criticism on a fan board, even more so when this is what he has given us to cheer for.
That being said you're right that this board is hardly a friendly place for new posters, old posters, and everything in between but that's the internet for you
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An online message board is quite the same as a billboard in my opinion.
Sure you don’t have Joe Schmo driving to work seeing a billboard that says “Fire Wojo”, but was he ever the target audience in the first place?
Instead, on this message board you have an audience of people from hardcore fans to someone stopping by to get a little more insight into MUBB. The latter is the most impressionable in my opinion and for them to be exposed to this rhetoric against Wojo, the players and the administration is not a good look. We are turning off new fans from becoming more interested in the program!
Sometimes in baseball a batter will hit a long home run and upset the opposing team and pitcher by flipping his bat, admiring his shot, or styling it around the bases. Crusty old baseball guys might call this showboating, but the simple solution is, if you don't want the guy to flip his bat or admire his homer, don't give up the home run in the first place.
That's sort of the situation here. If Wojo was actually getting the job done, no one would be complaining. As it stands right now, he's lost three games in a row to teams in the bottom half of the conference during a crucial stretch of the season. We're currently ranked #93 in Net, which is dreadful. He has never won an NCAA tournament game and it looks like we'll be on the outside looking in this year.
And finally, the only "Willy" on this board is the one who talks about slurpers and phony lonesome cowboys. You're either Chico, or someone associated with the MU athletic department or administration. Fans will keep complaining about Wojo until he either wins or is shown the door, and there's nothing you personally can do to stop it. Unless of course you're Lovell or Scholl.
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Sometimes in baseball a batter will hit a long home run and upset the opposing team and pitcher by flipping his bat, admiring his shot, or styling it around the bases. Crusty old baseball guys might call this showboating, but the simple solution is, if you don't want the guy to flip his bat or admire his homer, don't give up the home run in the first place.
That's sort of the situation here. If Wojo was actually getting the job done, no one would be complaining. As it stands right now, he's lost three games in a row to teams in the bottom half of the conference during a crucial stretch of the season. We're currently ranked #93 in Net, which is dreadful. He has never won an NCAA tournament game and it looks like we'll be on the outside looking in this year.
And finally, the only "Willy" on this board is the one who talks about slurpers and phony lonesome cowboys. You're either Chico, or someone associated with the MU athletic department or administration. Fans will keep complaining about Wojo until he either wins or is shown the door, and there's nothing you personally can do to stop it. Unless of course you're Lovell or Scholl.
Most of us want nothing but the best for the all these guys but at this point if you are not allowed to complain (or vent frustrations) what is the point of even coming to a fan board....
I've watched all 17 games this year and many have been painful to watch but I keep hoping they turn it around, unfortunately they have not.
At some point you have to hold someone accountable or do something different IF you want different results
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I’m not saying you personally, but fans generally overestimate their own teams talent/depth level. If none of the covid seniors return, it’s going to be a slog.
And I'm not saying you personally, but some Scoopers so hate Wojo and are so down on anything and everything relating to MU hoops that they can't be objective or pragmatic.
Some can't even consider the possibility that obviously talented but raw players like DJ, Dawson and Justin could be significantly better next season.
They seemingly have forgotten how much better numerous Marquette players got over the years -- and yes, even under Wojo.
Again, I would fire Wojo today. But I also know that dedicated players tend to improve, often significantly, and I allow that could very well be the case for DJ, Dawson and Justin.
I hope they are back, regardless of who is coaching us. But I'm realistic enough to know that if Wojo and his assistants are told to hit the bricks, there's a good chance that all 3 will leave.
As for the subject of this thread, I don't know why any of them would leave if Wojo & Co. aren't fired. They will be totally handed the keys to the car next season; it will be their team.
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And I'm not saying you personally, but some Scoopers so hate Wojo and are so down on anything and everything relating to MU hoops that they can't be objective or pragmatic.
Some can't even consider the possibility that obviously talented but raw players like DJ, Dawson and Justin could be significantly better next season.
They seemingly have forgotten how much better numerous Marquette players got over the years -- and yes, even under Wojo.
Again, I would fire Wojo today. But I also know that dedicated players tend to improve, often significantly, and I allow that could very well be the case for DJ, Dawson and Justin.
I hope they are back, regardless of who is coaching us. But I'm realistic enough to know that if Wojo and his assistants are told to hit the bricks, there's a good chance that all 3 will leave.
As for the subject of this thread, I don't know why any of them would leave if Wojo & Co. aren't fired. They will be totally handed the keys to the car next season; it will be their team.
Without turning this into a projo vs nojo debate and taking a step back from both our fandoms, it’s very reasonable to say that our talent level takes a steep drop beyond Lewis/Carton/Garcia.
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Without turning this into a projo vs nojo debate and taking a step back from both our fandoms, it’s very reasonable to say that our talent level takes a steep drop beyond Lewis/Carton/Garcia.
Agreed.
But in college basketball, 3 very good players can take a team pretty far, especially when one is a stud PG and another is a do-everything big.
I try not to overstate how good they can become - I learned my lesson by overrating Garcia a little early this season - but I try not to understate it either. Freshmen often get MUCH better (and DJ is not much more than a freshman), especially those with obvious talent.
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panda
DJ and Dawson are legit D1 players and Lewis looks like he is going to one as well. Other that that, we have guys that would fill out a roster at Bradley.
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panda
DJ and Dawson are legit D1 players and Lewis looks like he is going to one as well. Other that that, we have guys that would fill out a roster at Bradley.
Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
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Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
(https://i.gifer.com/217k.gif)
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panda
DJ and Dawson are legit D1 players and Lewis looks like he is going to one as well. Other that that, we have guys that would fill out a roster at Bradley.
If we hire wardle then we can bring Bradley to the guys as opposed to them going. I don't see a down side.
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Applying a Van Halen lyric here, in a slightly different context...finish what ya started.
No one leaves. IF each improves, IF Oso has some game, IF Mitchell is better than average, IF ‘doo can offer 10-12 serviceable minutes each game, IF a 3-ball threat transfers in, on paper MU improves even w/the same HC.
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Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
To quote the wrestler Booker T, “You didn’t just say that. TELL ME, YOU DID NOT, JUST, SAY THAT!”
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Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
I agree if he picks up his handle he might make it to an NBA game handling a ticket.
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panda
DJ and Dawson are legit D1 players and Lewis looks like he is going to one as well. Other that that, we have guys that would fill out a roster at Bradley.
We agree.
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Cain isn't heading into the NBA anytime soon. But if I had to pick a player from our roster who was going to pull a Juan Anderson in 4-5 years, it would be Cain.
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Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
The Netherlands Basketball Association?
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Maybe we're thinking about this wrong. Maybe instead of worrying about whether Carton, Garcia, and Lewis go pro/transfer if Wojo leaves, we should be thinking the other way. Should the Wojo decision be based on what those three decide?
Bring back those three and I'm ok with giving Wojo one more shot, especially if he can land a starting level guard in the transfer-madness that is coming. If one or two or three of them leave town, then next year will suck no matter what we do, and the Wojo decision is basically made for us.
The problem is timing. If we wait on those guys to decide, we are behind the 8-ball when it comes to the coaching carousel.
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Maybe we're thinking about this wrong. Maybe instead of worrying about whether Carton, Garcia, and Lewis go pro/transfer if Wojo leaves, we should be thinking the other way. Should the Wojo decision be based on what those three decide?
Bring back those three and I'm ok with giving Wojo one more shot, especially if he can land a starting level guard in the transfer-madness that is coming. If one or two or three of them leave town, then next year will suck no matter what we do, and the Wojo decision is basically made for us.
The problem is timing. If we wait on those guys to decide, we are behind the 8-ball when it comes to the coaching carousel.
You don't base the Wojo decision on current players or recruits. If you don't think he can lead us to years of sustained success, which includes tournament success, you fire him.
But yes, if you wait for players to say they have entered the transfer portal, it probably would be too late. The best coaching candidates will have been grabbed by other schools.
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You don't base the Wojo decision on current players or recruits. If you don't think he can lead us to years of sustained success, which includes tournament success, you fire him.
But yes, if you wait for players to say they have entered the transfer portal, it probably would be too late. The best coaching candidates will have been grabbed by other schools.
Not only that but also missing out on players in the transfer portal.
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Not only that but also missing out on players in the transfer portal.
Good point.
If you're gonna fire Wojo, and you're unwilling to make a midseason move, you do it the day the season ends.
Hopefully, you already have started a serious coaching search and are ready to make a great hire quickly. Maybe that way, you can nab a few of the transfers.
Even if MU pulls off all of that perfectly, some current players will leave, some (if not all) recruits will bail, and the 2021-22 season will almost surely suck big-time. That's the price a program pays for firing its coach.
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I agree if he picks up his handle he might make it to an NBA game handling a ticket.
Actually, he would need to be able to handle his phone. :)
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Galway
If they hire Wardle it would only confirm that they know little about running a major basketball program. I have said many times on here that lowering the budget and hiring Wardle is an option, just a horrible option. As much as I dislike Wojo being the HC, I would take him over Wardle any day of the week. Wojo can at least walk into any recruits house with a story to tell, a name to drop or a high level experience he can share. Brian Wardle's name should not be even mentioned IMO.
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If they hire Wardle it would only confirm that they know little about running a major basketball program. I have said many times on here that lowering the budget and hiring Wardle is an option, just a horrible option. As much as I dislike Wojo being the HC, I would take him over Wardle any day of the week. Wojo can at least walk into any recruits house with a story to tell, a name to drop or a high level experience he can share.
I'd be concerned about having the recruiting relationships necessary to compete at this level. He hasn't worked in a high-major program since his time at MU 15 years ago.
The best option MU has at this point, IMO, is a guy who was a P6 assistant who is cutting his teeth at a mid-major school.
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To follow up on post from 4ever earlier today, I would never hesitate on hiring someone over a short term hit. Losing players is part of the game today and I would not worry about who might stay or who might go based off of Wojo's status. The damage that can be done by keeping him outweighs the damage caused by letting him go.
Truthfully, parting ways with Wojo would be a win for him long term. He has never seemed all that warm and fuzzy about MKE and probably believed this was a learn on the job and be ready to take over at Duke. Only problem, he is better suited for Duquesne than he is for Duke. I had hoped he was going to get the job done here and it just did not happen. Time to move on.
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I think a mid-major coach with a track record of success would be the right fit. Porter Moser comes from a Jesuit school (LUC), worked with Majerus at SLU. Can you get him to move 75 miles north? Hopefully, through some agents those conversations are underway.
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To follow up on post from 4ever earlier today, I would never hesitate on hiring someone over a short term hit. Losing players is part of the game today and I would not worry about who might stay or who might go based off of Wojo's status. The damage that can be done by keeping him outweighs the damage caused by letting him go.
Truthfully, parting ways with Wojo would be a win for him long term. He has never seemed all that warm and fuzzy about MKE and probably believed this was a learn on the job and be ready to take over at Duke. Only problem, he is better suited for Duquesne than he is for Duke. I had hoped he was going to get the job done here and it just did not happen. Time to move on.
I agree with your overall point. If the AD feels the coach is not capable of sustained success with a 2+mill salary and a storied program you take the immediate short-term hit. That said it doesn't sound like there is a home-run hire for MU. Of course no one saw Chris Beard coming. I'm wondering if we would go after the Drake or Winthrop coach? Or perhaps Moser at Loyola-Chi? Do you think there's a prime-time candidate to lead the Warrios back to dominance? Or even Buzz level?
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I think a mid-major coach with a track record of success would be the right fit. Porter Moser comes from a Jesuit school (LUC), worked with Majerus at SLU. Can you get him to move 75 miles north? Hopefully, through some agents those conversations are underway.
If he lives on the north shore it could be less. Heck maybe he lives in Lake Forest and hes practically halfway to Milwaukee already.
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I agree with your overall point. If the AD feels the coach is not capable of sustained success with a 2+mill salary and a storied program you take the immediate short-term hit. That said it doesn't sound like there is a home-run hire for MU. Of course no one saw Chris Beard coming. I'm wondering if we would go after the Drake or Winthrop coach? Or perhaps Moser at Loyola-Chi? Do you think there's a prime-time candidate to lead the Warrios back to dominance? Or even Buzz level?
Our best bet is for some team to hire Wojo away. The school can than hire the best available candidate.
Drag a $2 million salary and a storied program through the coaching carousel and you don’t know what you will find......
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I agree with your overall point. If the AD feels the coach is not capable of sustained success with a 2+mill salary and a storied program you take the immediate short-term hit. That said it doesn't sound like there is a home-run hire for MU. Of course no one saw Chris Beard coming. I'm wondering if we would go after the Drake or Winthrop coach? Or perhaps Moser at Loyola-Chi? Do you think there's a prime-time candidate to lead the Warrios back to dominance? Or even Buzz level?
Both Kelsey at Winthrop and DeVries at Drake were assistants at current BE Jesuit institutions - Xavier and Creighton respectively. Moser of course is at a Jesuit school at Loyola.
I think all three would view Marquette as a solid step up.
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Moser is my #1 choice. He's been a player, assistant and head coach at Jesuit schools so that box is checked.
Been around the block a few times, has won, has lost and yet he's only 52. What really get me excited is his time with Rick. He talked about how Rick reinvigorated his career.
And while he hasn't had great teams after 2018 break through, he has had winning teams.
2019: 12-6 in Conf
2020: 13-5 in Conf
2021: 9-1 in Conf
I would love to see what he could do at a school like MU, with our resources.
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Moser is my #1 choice. He's been a player, assistant and head coach at Jesuit schools so that box is checked.
Been around the block a few times, has won, has lost and yet he's only 52. What really get me excited is his time with Rick. He talked about how Rick reinvigorated his career.
And while he hasn't had great teams after 2018 break through, he has had winning teams.
2019: 12-6 in Conf
2020: 13-5 in Conf
2021: 9-1 in Conf
I would love to see what he could do at a school like MU, with our resources.
The trend has definitely been upward for him since the CBI championship and now that he has tournament "cred" with the FF he can recruit better. I wouldn't call him my no1 option but he'd be too 3-5 for sure.
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Moser is my #1 choice. He's been a player, assistant and head coach at Jesuit schools so that box is checked.
Been around the block a few times, has won, has lost and yet he's only 52. What really get me excited is his time with Rick. He talked about how Rick reinvigorated his career.
And while he hasn't had great teams after 2018 break through, he has had winning teams.
2019: 12-6 in Conf
2020: 13-5 in Conf
2021: 9-1 in Conf
I would love to see what he could do at a school like MU, with our resources.
How important is it that he’s coached a Jesuit school before? I’ve seen this thrown out a few times. I’d be a bit underwhelmed based on his years at Loyola before the Final Four.
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How important is it that he’s coached a Jesuit school before? I’ve seen this thrown out a few times. I’d be a bit underwhelmed based on his years at Loyola before the Final Four.
I think it's the theory that they'd feel comfortable at the institution and be able to showcase the culture to recruits.
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Moser had to build Loyola up from pretty much nothing. He's done a great job building that program there. Does that translate? I have no idea.
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I think it's the theory that they'd feel comfortable at the institution and be able to showcase the culture to recruits.
And when you're recruiting to SLU or Loyola you can't take anyone and dump them into dummy Phy Ed majors like you can at Ohio State, Oklahoma or Dayton.
* Technically Dayton doesn't have Phy Ed but their Econ or Organic Chem is everyone else's Phy Ed, or intro to finger paints.
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Our best bet is for some team to hire Wojo away. The school can than hire the best available candidate.
Drag a $2 million salary and a storied program through the coaching carousel and you don’t know what you will find......
Boston College has money and will have an opening in a few weeks.
How important is it that he’s coached a Jesuit school before? I’ve seen this thrown out a few times. I’d be a bit underwhelmed based on his years at Loyola before the Final Four.
I don't think it being Jesuit it is as important as being at a school with a similar environment, standards, and institutional values. I once interviewed an Evangelical Christian coach for a job at a Catholic school and he openly said he wasn't unfamiliar and not sure how he'd sell the Catholic identity of the school.
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Do you think there's a prime-time candidate to lead the Warrios back to dominance? Or even Buzz level?
I think before we worry about “dominance” (Al?) we should think a little smaller. If someone can get us to the Buzz level (or even the KO/Crean level) I think that most of the fan base would be ecstatic.
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I think before we worry about “dominance” (Al?) we should think a little smaller. If someone can get us to the Buzz level (or even the KO/Crean level) I think that most of the fan base would be ecstatic.
If 2019 would have ended better, with a BE regular season title and a S16, we aren't having this conversation.
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I think before we worry about “dominance” (Al?) we should think a little smaller. If someone can get us to the Buzz level (or even the KO/Crean level) I think that most of the fan base would be ecstatic.
I would take Deane level. If we're going to go .500 at least let me get drunk with the coach.
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If 2019 would have ended better, with a BE regular season title and a S16, we aren't having this conversation.
The world is full of ifs better to not get lost in them.
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Not that Moser is a household name in Chicagoland, but it can't hurt to have some connection to the single largest area from which you draw students. He might even have some recruiting connections for kids who want to play outside the city (Loyola, DePaul) but close enough for family.
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I would take Deane level. If we're going to go .500 at least let me get drunk with the coach.
LOL - even the alums could get in the act. I was almost 30 years out when a fellow Warrior and I went to Doc Weeds in Chicago for an alumni meet and greet. He spent almost an hour at our table - and drank at least 4 beers (to our 2). Guy could pound ‘em with the best of them!
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If 2019 would have ended better, with a BE regular season title and a S16, we aren't having this conversation.
Probably true. If Vander hadn't come through against Davidson and Diener hadn't come through against Holy Cross, Buzz and Crean would be remembered differently. Heck, if the '77 Warriors hadn't pulled out a few unlikely wins, Al wouldn't be AL!
2019 didn't end better. We didn't win the BEast or an NCAA tourney game. And we are having this conversation. Time to move on.
I know you agree with all of the above.
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Galway
If they hire Wardle it would only confirm that they know little about running a major basketball program. I have said many times on here that lowering the budget and hiring Wardle is an option, just a horrible option. As much as I dislike Wojo being the HC, I would take him over Wardle any day of the week. Wojo can at least walk into any recruits house with a story to tell, a name to drop or a high level experience he can share. Brian Wardle's name should not be even mentioned IMO.
Goose,
We agree on Wardle.
Who would be on your realistic, but hopeful, shortlist?
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If 2019 would have ended better, with a BE regular season title and a S16, we aren't having this conversation.
I would add the Hausers not transferring. I think that was a red flag for a lot of fans. Even had he retained Sam, it would've helped assuage fan concerns that started to grow out of the 2019 ending.
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I would add the Hausers not transferring. I think that was a red flag for a lot of fans. Even had he retained Sam, it would've helped assuage fan concerns that started to grow out of the 2019 ending.
2019 was supposed to the 2002 and 2020 was supposed to be 2003.
Joey could have been Odartey. It still would have been fine if Sam (2020's Wade) stayed. In this scenario Markus is obviously Merritt.
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2019 was supposed to the 2002 and 2020 was supposed to be 2003.
Joey could have been Odartey. It still would have been fine if Sam (2020's Wade) stayed. In this scenario Markus is obviously Merritt.
Was Theo going to be RJax?
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I think before we worry about “dominance” (Al?) we should think a little smaller. If someone can get us to the Buzz level (or even the KO/Crean level) I think that most of the fan base would be ecstatic.
My mindset is always about domination and throttling other teams. Needless to say this has been a rough time since we eviscerated Miami in the 2013 S16.
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My mindset is always about domination and throttling other teams. Needless to say this has been a rough time since we eviscerated Miami in the 2013 S16.
Glad to say that Mrs. 82 and I were at that game.
When we left what was then called the Verizon Center that night to go have a celebratory beverage, we never imagined that less than 1 year later Buzz would be Hokie bound and Marquette wouldn't win another NCAA tourney game.
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Glad to say that Mrs. 82 and I were at that game.
When we left what was then called the Verizon Center that night to go have a celebratory beverage, we never imagined that less than 1 year later Buzz would be Hokie bound and Marquette wouldn't win another NCAA tourney game.
Seeing Buzz on CBS in 'Hokie'" gear was an awful sight. I'm pleased however that Mrs. 82 was able to see us pummel Miami and perhaps watch Larranaga cry. I will never forget that pre-game show where Gottlieb, Barkley, and Smith gave us no chance. Props to Greg Anthony who pimped MU.
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jesmu
At this point I really have no idea who would or could be viable options. I have always been a swing for the fences person, but I do not know what direction MU wants to go moving forward. However, I do strongly believe that Wardle should not even be in a conversation regarding the HC position at MU.
Wish I knew or had an idea what to do in regards of HC at MU. I do think Wojo is back next season and we can do this all over again next year. Unless he leaves on his own I do not see a coaching change happening.
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Not sure I agree with that. I think Cain could be NBA bound. Just needs to clean his handle up a bit.
Eye could bea NBA bound two. Just gotta grow 8 inches, hey?
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Eye could bea NBA bound two. Just gotta grow 8 inches, hey?
(https://tvrecappersanonymous.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/jason-with-the-duct-tape-santana.gif?w=500)
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At this point I really have no idea who would or could be viable options. I have always been a swing for the fences person, but I do not know what direction MU wants to go moving forward. However, I do strongly believe that Wardle should not even be in a conversation regarding the HC position at MU.
Wish I knew or had an idea what to do in regards of HC at MU. I do think Wojo is back next season and we can do this all over again next year. Unless he leaves on his own I do not see a coaching change happening.
This is where I am, too, Goose.
We can name a dozen or more names, but who really knows which coaches will be available and will want the job? Wardle ... I won't be violently ill if he gets it (as some Scoopers apparently will be), and I will give him a chance. But I like to think we can do better than Wardle, or Moser for that matter. But history suggests that maybe we can't do much better with our coaching hires.
Like you, I also think Wojo will be back next season no matter what. That's disappointing but it's out of our control, which is why I refuse to let it make me crazy.
Hopeless optimist that I am, I will watch the rest of our games looking for signs that the future will be brighter. I still enjoy watching our guys work hard and occasionally play well.
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This is where I am, too, Goose.
We can name a dozen or more names, but who really knows which coaches will be available and will want the job? Wardle ... I won't be violently ill if he gets it (as some Scoopers apparently will be), and I will give him a chance. But I like to think we can do better than Wardle, or Moser for that matter. But history suggests that maybe we can't do much better with our coaching hires.
Like you, I also think Wojo will be back next season no matter what. That's disappointing but it's out of our control, which is why I refuse to let it make me crazy.
Hopeless optimist that I am, I will watch the rest of our games looking for signs that the future will be brighter. I still enjoy watching our guys work hard and occasionally play well.
As I have noted before, Wojo is a no go as far as firing. He will be back next year and, like you Brother MU, we can hope for better things next year.
For me, this normally is the time I’m getting amped up about MU basketball. Early February means we should be ranked, our tournament chances are good and we’re just arrogant enough to believe we can kick the crap out of Villanova.
But, alas, this year I’m focused on baseball. My Cardinals suddenly gave me hope for the coming season. I’ll probably go to Jupiter, assuming there are crowds at spring training, watch them a few times and get psyched for the season.
Our Warriors are an afterthought. I’ll watch them long enough to get frustrated but not long enough to damage my new TV set after throwing something at it. They’re just not worth the investment this year.
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Can we just end the Wardle Lovefest now? Is this the bar y'all aspire to reach? Man 'o man what has this dude ever done on a mid-major level to warrant a jump to MU. Nice that he's an alum. Great, many of us are. No wonder mediocre is the new greatness, hey?
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At this point I really have no idea who would or could be viable options. I have always been a swing for the fences person, but I do not know what direction MU wants to go moving forward. However, I do strongly believe that Wardle should not even be in a conversation regarding the HC position at MU.
Wish I knew or had an idea what to do in regards of HC at MU. I do think Wojo is back next season and we can do this all over again next year. Unless he leaves on his own I do not see a coaching change happening.
Finding the correct head coach is not the responsibility of jabronis posting on Scoop. I always find it amusing when someone uses the argument that we can’t replace the coach because some poster on MUScoop can’t name anyone better. If Wardle had no ties to MU, he wouldn’t even be considered as a qualified candidate. Bringing in the wrong person just because he played for the team is a terrible idea. (See Bart Starr, Forest Gregg)
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Boston College has money and will have an opening in a few weeks.
I don't think it being Jesuit it is as important as being at a school with a similar environment, standards, and institutional values. I once interviewed an Evangelical Christian coach for a job at a Catholic school and he openly said he wasn't unfamiliar and not sure how he'd sell the Catholic identity of the school.
there are a lot of MU alums in my family. My dad was a MU prof. None were/are Catholic. It wasn’t even a thought one way or the other. Point is, not sure a coach is selling a religious identity or religious culture when recruiting. More so, it’s team culture, coaching style, facilities, conference, TV appearances, campus, academics, et al.
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The idea that non-Catholics can't understand or sell the mission of a Catholic school is nonsense.
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The idea that non-Catholics can't understand or sell the mission of a Catholic school is nonsense.
The infidels are not worthy
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hairy
I have nothing against Wardle, but IMO he is definitely not the answer. I have said for years that if MU wants stability in the program they should cut the budget in half, pay Wardle $600k a year and he will be here for twenty years. Again, that is an option, but one that likely shows the importance of having a nationally recognized program is no longer a priority. MU has tough decisions to make moving forward and not making a move it probably the worst move possible.
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I have nothing against Wardle, but IMO he is definitely not the answer. I have said for years that if MU wants stability in the program they should cut the budget in half, pay Wardle $600k a year and he will be here for twenty years. Again, that is an option, but one that likely shows the importance of having a nationally recognized program is no longer a priority. MU has tough decisions to make moving forward and not making a move it probably the worst move possible.
I am afraid we are here already. How else can you explain hanging on to a guy with 0 tournament wins in 6.5 years going on 7? I don’t think running a clean program and winning games are mutually exclusive.
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I am afraid we are here already. How else can you explain hanging on to a guy with 0 tournament wins in 6.5 years going on 7? I don’t think running a clean program and winning games are mutually exclusive.
When should they have fired him?
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When should they have fired him?
They shouldn't have. It's a situation where the sum of the parts are greater than the whole.
Individually:
A20 win season but no post season is decent not great and a bit disappointing.
A tournament appearance is good
An NIT where we just missed the cutoff is decent but disappointing.
A 5 seed is good but given where we were a couple weeks prior it's disappointing.
A likely tournament appearance is good but we were collapsing again.
None of those are bad to enough to give a fireable moment and yet when you look at the body of work as a whole you can't help but sigh. So this year is the first truly fireable year (likely as Brew stated it is theoretically possible we still limp in)
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When should they have fired him?
The day after this season ends.
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I am afraid we are here already. How else can you explain hanging on to a guy with 0 tournament wins in 6.5 years going on 7? I don’t think running a clean program and winning games are mutually exclusive.
A lot of coaches have stretches like that and don't get fired, especially when one of the years they would have made the tournament gets cancelled. McDermott has 0 wins in the last 7 years. Cooley has one win in 10 years. Willard has one win in 10 years. Winning tournament games isn't high on most ADs list when determining who gets fired. They base it on the entire season's performance.
That being said, if we finish this season well outside the tournament, I'd be ready to move on.
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That being said, if we finish this season well outside the tournament, I'd be ready to move on.
Two games ago you said if we lose the next three just saying might be a seismic shift tonight.
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When should they have fired him?
For me, it was after the 18-19 season. He had his “5 years to judge” at that point and all his own recruits. The team lost 6 of the last 7 that year including an embarrassing loss in the tournament. We have discussed the Hauser situation ad nauseum, but the bottom line is he was coach and bears at least some responsibility. It was a bad look and was revealing of his abilities. I get the logic, (don't agree with it) of keeping him for 19-20, but the team lost 5 of the last 6, he should have been gone then, covid or no covid. It is likely they will hold onto him next year also. He has had his chances, time to move on.
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For me, it was after the 18-19 season. He had his “5 years to judge” at that point and all his own recruits. The team lost 6 of the last 7 that year including an embarrassing loss in the tournament. We have discussed the Hauser situation ad nauseum, but the bottom line is he was coach and bears at least some responsibility. It was a bad look and was revealing of his abilities. I get the logic, (don't agree with it) of keeping him for 19-20, but the team lost 5 of the last 6, he should have been gone then, covid or no covid. It is likely they will hold onto him next year also. He has had his chances, time to move on.
You wanted to fire a coach after they got a five seed in the NCAA tournament?
That's insane. No program is going to do that.
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You wanted to fire a coach after they got a five seed in the NCAA tournament?
That's insane. No program is going to do that.
yeah, there is more context to it than just getting a 5 seed. but, thats why I said I could see the logic of keeping him. for 19-20.
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Two games ago you said if we lose the next three just saying might be a seismic shift tonight.
It wasn't two games ago, it was last game. Or if it was two games ago it was four more regular season losses. That's changed a little with the Nova game because that changes the math required to make the tournament. And there's a difference for me between deciding that I don't think he's the guy and expecting the university to fire him despite the pandemic.
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For me, it was after the 18-19 season. He had his “5 years to judge” at that point and all his own recruits. The team lost 6 of the last 7 that year including an embarrassing loss in the tournament. We have discussed the Hauser situation ad nauseum, but the bottom line is he was coach and bears at least some responsibility. It was a bad look and was revealing of his abilities. I get the logic, (don't agree with it) of keeping him for 19-20, but the team lost 5 of the last 6, he should have been gone then, covid or no covid. It is likely they will hold onto him next year also. He has had his chances, time to move on.
That's easy to say now. Looking back and knowing how the next couple of seasons would go, sure, I'd have fired him then, too.
But we are not P6 ADs and/or presidents, and those guys don't have the benefit of hindsight.
As Sultan said and TAMU's research discovered, firing a guy who just earned a 5-seed, who had made the NCAAs in 2 of 3 years, who ran a clean program and who was recruiting well ... it just isn't done.
Curious, hairy: After Hausershima, did you call for him to be fired on Scoop?
Several Scoopers have pointed to that as when he should have been canned, but how many actually said it then -- other than those who never wanted him hired in the first place?
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It wasn't two games ago, it was last game. Or if it was two games ago it was four more regular season losses. That's changed a little with the Nova game because that changes the math required to make the tournament. And there's a difference for me between deciding that I don't think he's the guy and expecting the university to fire him despite the pandemic.
You're right my bad I saw the quote the night of the Providence game but thought I saw it beforehand didnt realize it was well afterward.
If the season wasn't in such a desperate state, this one wouldn't have bothered me much. Since that's not where we are...3 more regular season losses and im ready for Wojo to be gone
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This is where I am, too, Goose.
We can name a dozen or more names, but who really knows which coaches will be available and will want the job? Wardle ... I won't be violently ill if he gets it (as some Scoopers apparently will be), and I will give him a chance. But I like to think we can do better than Wardle, or Moser for that matter. But history suggests that maybe we can't do much better with our coaching hires.
In Moser we’re hiring a coach who has been to the Final Four. To me, that says something.
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I don’t see Lewis or García transferring unless Wojo is canned. They clearly wanted to play for him and get a lot of run, even more next year
Dex & Oso seem more likely without Stan around. Dex to Loyola would be great for stan
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That's easy to say now. Looking back and knowing how the next couple of seasons would go, sure, I'd have fired him then, too.
But we are not P6 ADs and/or presidents, and those guys don't have the benefit of hindsight.
As Sultan said and TAMU's research discovered, firing a guy who just earned a 5-seed, who had made the NCAAs in 2 of 3 years, who ran a clean program and who was recruiting well ... it just isn't done.
Curious, hairy: After Hausershima, did you call for him to be fired on Scoop?
Several Scoopers have pointed to that as when he should have been canned, but how many actually said it then -- other than those who never wanted him hired in the first place?
Honestly, I do not remember what I thought in terms of canning Wojo at that time. (getting old). I was excited about that season because of who they had on the roster and the potential of really doing something positive in the tournament. They were ranked highly most of that season. Then the collapse and the Hauser nonsense, really had me questioning Wojos abilities and inabilities. I probably was on the fire Wojo band wagon at that time. I’m not a fire the coach guy at the drop of a hat, so not sure. I know apathy started creeping in after that point for me.
BTW, the question to me was when should they have fired him? That is a retrospective question. Of course we all have the benefit of hindsight now, but for me looking back at it, after 2018-19 was the correct time.
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In Moser we’re hiring a coach who has been to the Final Four. To me, that says something.
Sure, I'd pick Moser before I'd pick Wardle.
I have to wrap my head around the fact that Moser did nothing of consequence as a head coach before the FF run. Then again, he has built on Loyola's success since then, and he's been an assistant to some good coaches, including Majerus. I'd certainly be rooting hard for him if he's hired, but that's the way I'm wired. I'm still rooting for Wojo.
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Sure, I'd pick Moser before I'd pick Wardle.
I have to wrap my head around the fact that Moser did nothing of consequence as a head coach before the FF run. Then again, he has built on Loyola's success since then, and he's been an assistant to some good coaches, including Majerus. I'd certainly be rooting hard for him if he's hired, but that's the way I'm wired. I'm still rooting for Wojo.
Wow way to just ignore his huge CBI championship. Shame on you.
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The idea that non-Catholics can't understand or sell the mission of a Catholic school is nonsense.
somehow I knew you’d push back. i didn’t say a non-Catholic can’t push the mission of a Catholic school. I feel it’s unlikely, often times. But did I say a coach cannot?
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somehow I knew you’d push back. i didn’t say a non-Catholic can’t push the mission of a Catholic school. I feel it’s unlikely, often times. But did I say a coach cannot?
I wasn't responding to you.
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Wow way to just ignore his huge CBI championship. Shame on you.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/yeah-my-bad.jpg)
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I would have fired Wojo the day the Hauser's left town.
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I would have fired Wojo the day the Hauser's left town.
Again, it's very easy to say today, after we've seen last year's collapse (second straight season with one) and this year's suckitude, that he should been kicked to the curb in April 2019.
But while I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, I don't remember you saying that back then.
Maybe you did. Or maybe you just thought it.
Obviously, with 20/20 hindsight, that's when we should have done it ... making Marquette one of the few schools (maybe the only one?) in the last quarter-century to fire a non-cheating, non-abusive coach after his team was a 5-seed.
EDIT: Goose, I took a very quick look back at your posts after Hausershima. While you did not come right out and say, "Fire Wojo," I think that's more due to your style being relatively understated. You repeatedly said he was "in over his head," and that the program very well might never recover from the way Hausershima went down -- which I'll take as your way of saying, "Fire Wojo."
So I guess I should say, um, congratulations?
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I was boarding a plane for China at the time the news broke and it was the final straw to me. We can debate the departure or value of those two guys all day long, but losing both of them was not a high point for the program. While Wojo was not my guy I really did think he had a chance to deliver the goods and gave him a chance. I liked how he recruited five star guys and tried to land them. That being said, I noted several years ago that I saw no real system/plan in place and that troubled me.
Seeing the results on the court is one thing and we all can agree not much to cheer about this season, which is disappointing. It still looking like no system is in place is far worse IMO. You and I debated my saying "there was a reason why he was an assistant for "x" years" and it is quite obvious to me why that was the case, he is still in over his head after seven years.
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I was boarding a plane for China at the time the news broke and it was the final straw to me. We can debate the departure or value of those two guys all day long, but losing both of them was not a high point for the program. While Wojo was not my guy I really did think he had a chance to deliver the goods and gave him a chance. I liked how he recruited five star guys and tried to land them. That being said, I noted several years ago that I saw no real system/plan in place and that troubled me.
Seeing the results on the court is one thing and we all can agree not much to cheer about this season, which is disappointing. It still looking like no system is in place is far worse IMO. You and I debated my saying "there was a reason why he was an assistant for "x" years" and it is quite obvious to me why that was the case, he is still in over his head after seven years.
I wish I could debate you and make a cogent case in Wojo's defense, Goose ... but after 6 1/2 years, with all that's gone down since Feb. 26, 2019, I can't.
Hausershima made me sit up and say, "It's a coach's job to build chemistry, not to let lack thereof tear a team apart. Even though I think the Hausers are partly to blame, this is mostly on Wojo." I also was very concerned about his ability to recruit after that happened.
But then we got off to a good start last season AND he secured Garcia, DJ, Lewis and Osa, and I was reasonably satisfied. Then came yet another collapse, and I said, "That's it. He's officially on the clock for me."
Well, the clock finally has struck midnight for me.
I'm a patient guy in all facets of my life, and I am an eternal optimist. Plus, I knew that even if I screamed "Off with his head!" Marquette honchos weren't gonna cut off his head. So I was probably too patient.
That being said, even though I finally am with you and other NoJos, I simply don't see him getting fired after the season no matter what happens. So I'll still try my best to stay hopeful and to enjoy watching our hard-working players compete.
I will defend the players when Scoopers throw out terms like, "They quit" or "They mailed it in." It's inaccurate, unfair and mean. And I'll even defend Wojo when I think folks are blaming him for stuff unfairly. There is so much to get on his case for, I hope folks will stick to things that actually are his failings rather than making up crud like "He just doesn't care." I don't know Wojo at all, but I am sure he cares.
End of rant. Thanks for the conversation, my friend.