DJ Carton, Justin Lewis, Dawson Garcia: How many transfer?

[Gato78]

What fluffy (sultan) said

Walk me through it.

[rocky_warrior]

Simple, he gets one more year. If the core group cannot do anything next year, let him go.

Generally, I agree with this.  So far disappointing this year, but even ignoring financials , he gets next year still to win with this group.  I still see lots of potential, and even opportunities to progress this year.

But posting on days of losses is depressing, only boo birds out.

[hairy worthen]

Walk me through it.

Lol, no. Go up about 5 posts

[Bad_Reporter]

I wouldn't be so sure wojo will be here next year.  Maybe y'all have heard differently, but from what I hear it's not so certain.

[hairy worthen]

Generally, I agree with this.  So far disappointing this year, but even ignoring financials , he gets next year still to win with this group.  I still see lots of potential, and even opportunities to progress this year.

But posting on days of losses is depressing, only boo birds out.

So what is one more year going to tell you that the last 7 haven't

[rocky_warrior]

So what is one more year going to tell you that the last 7 haven't

You can pretend that Wojo has had no success, but that's not accurate.  You could also pretend he's never developed players, but that's also no accurate.  It will tell me if he can retain the young talented players he's acquired, and develop them into a better team.

[MuggsyB]

Simple, he gets one more year. If the core group cannot do anything next year, let him go. However, I think Carton, Lewis and Garcia are really good and they will develop into very good players. If not, fine but we will be seeing several years worth of bad basketball—next year could be the worst since Dukiet if Wojo is axed this year.

I fully agree that this trio has great potential.  And I really like the potential of Aidoo.  My concern Gato is that developing players hasn't been a strong suit during  the past 7 yrs.    But I have tremendous respect for you and Mrs.Gato and appreciate your thoughts.  Frankly, I don't like this particular speculation at any time, ever.

[hairy worthen]

You can pretend that Wojo has had no success, but that's not accurate.  You could also pretend he's never developed players, but that's also no accurate.  It will tell me if he can retain the young talented players he's acquired, and develop them into a better team.

I define success as winning tournament games, (at least one frickin game in 7 years).

[Gato78]

I fully agree that this trio has great potential.  And I really like the potential of Aidoo.  My concern Gato is that developing players hasn't been a strong suit during  the past 7 yrs.    But I have tremendous respect for you and Mrs.Gato and appreciate your thoughts.  Frankly, I don't like this particular speculation at any time, ever.

Player development should not be much of a discussion as we have seen with Sacar Anim. Sacar is Exhibit A that Wojo can develop players. Look at Theo from his freshman year foul fest to today. He can and has developed players. Mrs. Gato is much more inclined to give Wojo a pass this year because of COVID. She points to the slow development of players at Duke and Kentucky as Exhibit A. She also thinks the virus plays with the minds of all of these kids so she is much more inclined to let this year go and move on to next year. I am not as forgiving but I truly believe he needs one more year with Garcia, Lewis and Carton.

[panda]

Maybe we can finish .500 if he sticks around next season!!

Then he gets canned and we start over. Or we start over right away? Why delay the inevitable with a lame duck coach. (Financial situation not withstanding)

[Gato78]

Maybe we can finish .500 if he sticks around next season!!

Then he gets canned and we start over. Or we start over right away? Why delay the inevitable with a lame duck coach. (Financial situation not withstanding)

Because just maybe the core develops going into next year and they take another step up?

[mileskishnish72]

I wouldn't be so sure wojo will be here next year.  Maybe y'all have heard differently, but from what I hear it's not so certain.

Oh, pleeze, pleeze.

[WarriorPride68]

I wouldn't be so sure wojo will be here next year.  Maybe y'all have heard differently, but from what I hear it's not so certain.

Wardle Natty 2022 baby!

[Billy Hoyle]

i wasnt aware if you transfer after this season u automatically get to play next. i guess its more plausible then

Only for the first transfer. Carton would have to sit since it's his second transfer.

Moving forward there will be no sitting out for first time transfers. It's going be an absolute free for all and will ruin the college game. Basically free agency every year.  Look at the big dude who had no offers and was overweight who a Drake took a chance on, developed, and got poached by Minnesota. Or Rowsey on our end.

Other sports like soccer have this right now and the amount of poaching that goes on is ridiculous.

[MuggsyB]

Player development should not be much of a discussion as we have seen with Sacar Anim. Sacar is Exhibit A that Wojo can develop players. Look at Theo from his freshman year foul fest to today. He can and has developed players. Mrs. Gato is much more inclined to give Wojo a pass this year because of COVID. She points to the slow development of players at Duke and Kentucky as Exhibit A. She also thinks the virus plays with the minds of all of these kids so she is much more inclined to let this year go and move on to next year. I am not as forgiving but I truly believe he needs one more year with Garcia, Lewis and Carton.

We may have different expectations with regards to player development.  There is no question Anim and others have gotten better during their 4 yr careers.  Everyone gets better from their Freshman to Sr. season Gato, it's about whether or not he can develop players from good to prime-time contributors?  This is where I am not sold Gato but by no means am I trying to besmirch you or Mrs. Gato.  I have just seen many guys the last number of years stagnate and not reach their potential.

[panda]

Because just maybe the core develops going into next year and they take another step up?

The next step from this year to next year would be 500 no?

[hairy worthen]

We may have different expectations with regards to player development.  There is no question Anim and others have gotten better during their 4 yr careers.  Everyone gets better from their Freshman to Sr. season Gato, it's about whether or not he can develop players from good to prime-time contributors?  This is where I am not sold Gato but by no means am I trying to besmirch you or Mrs. Gato.  I have just seen many guys the last number of years stagnate and not reach their potential.

Player development is somewhat ambiguous because you dont know how much a player naturally develops from freshmen to senior and how much of that development is because of coaching. People have mentioned Theo and I am happy he has made an improvement this year, but I still see him making some of the mistakes he made as a freshman. Is that on him or Wojo?

The bottom line for me is while Wojo has recruited some higher level players, he hasn't recruited a complete functional team. Always something missing. This year it is lack of talented depth.

[Gato78]

Player development is somewhat ambiguous because you dont know how much a player naturally develops from freshmen to senior and how much of that development is because of coaching. People have mentioned Theo and I am happy he has made an improvement this year, but I still see him making some of the mistakes he made as a freshman. Is that on him or Wojo?

The bottom line for me is while Wojo has recruited some higher level players, he hasn't recruited a complete functional team. Always something missing. This year it is lack of talented depth.

If we cannot comment on development of players, it would seem the equivalent countervailing theory is that we cannot criticize Wojo on player development because we cannot tell how much is due to coaching. Your words.

[hairy worthen]

If we cannot comment on development of players, it would seem the equivalent countervailing theory is that we cannot criticize Wojo on player development because we cannot tell how much is due to coaching. Your words.

I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and  his results over 6.5 years.

Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.

[The Sultan]

I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and  his results over 6.5 years.

Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.

For the third year straight, and arguably the fourth time in five, they are getting worse as the season drags on.  Why prolong this?  (I mean, I know why they might.)  I just don't think we can expect him to change his approach.

[MuggsyB]

I think people have hit on the main dilemma.  Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term.  At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast.  It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs?  My head is spinning all over the place right now.  All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations. 

[panda]

I think people have hit on the main dilemma.  Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term.  At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast.  It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs?  My head is spinning all over the place right now.  All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations.

Talent has never been an issue in the last seven years. Anyone who thinks anything will completely change moving forward is either a blind optimist or is "close" to the program and feels bad for Wojo for what they're going through.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think people have hit on the main dilemma.  Obviously if we decide to make an immediate change we will take a major hit for the short-term.  At the same time I have seen a number of programs "rebuild" very quickly including teams within the BEast.  It might be sensible to heed Gato and Mrs. Gato's advice and see how we do with Garcia and Lewis as Sophs?  My head is spinning all over the place right now.  All I know is this has been the most disappointing season I can remember based on my personal expectations.

If the goal is to peak at 30 KenPom ranked team then I guess we take a hit.  IMO, It's not like it can get much worse in that apathy is at peak levels since the late 90s.   

People have been using the 'reset' as a boogie man for not moving on.  This is college basketball—the easiest sport to reset in.

Kenpom rankings:
21-74
20-31
19-33
18-53
17-32
16-97
15-93

[ATL MU Warrior]

I never criticized wojo on player development. Show me where I said that, ever. Its ambiguous. My complaint with Wojo is poor roster construction and  his results over 6.5 years.

Look Gato. I agree with you to some respect. I am on record as saying this could be a top 10 team next year if the core players stay. But Wojo is not getting it done and he has under performed most people's expectations over his tenure. If he is not the right guy, then it is not smart to prolong the obvious. That's where I am at.

Are you f'ing kidding me?  A top 10 team?  That's one of the more irrational things I have ever heard.

[MuggsyB]

I think that's a fair point of view Panda but we have not had three young players come back that have been 1, 2, 3 .  I'm not defending Wpjp but trying to look at this from all angles.  But to your point I think most fans have very little confidence in the leadership running the program.