MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: GooooMarquette on November 09, 2020, 10:00:47 AM
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Sorry for the new thread, but with the 'Vote!!' thread closed...
Does anyone have insight into why the vote totals in AZ & GA have hardly moved for a few days? They seemed to be moving along, albeit slowly, while they were still waiting to call PA & NV. Now that most major news outlets have called the election, AZ & GA seem to be stuck on '98%' of the vote since Friday. I get the need to be careful, but it would be nice to have info on the cause for things to have slowed down even further.
IMO, it isn't just an inconsequential counting exercise. If AZ & GA get officially called for Biden, it puts even greater pressure on Republicans to concede and acknowledge the inevitable, since a reversal in multiple states is exceedingly unlikely. OTOH, if Trump makes a comeback and wins those states, it makes the inevitable PA challenge very interesting.
Insights into the (further) slowdown in counting?
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Georgia, military ballots, as well as provisional ballots. Finally, due to the margin, there will automatically be a recount.
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For the record Alaska and NC are also still uncalled.
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For the record Alaska and NC are also still uncalled.
Understood. I didn't mention those only because it seems unlikely (NC) to implausible (AK) that Biden will come back...whereas the outcomes in AZ and GA could either end this dispute, or escalate it into weeks of legal wrangling.
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I wonder if the caution with GA specifically has as much to do with the 50% threshold for the Senate race as the outcome of the Presidential race. CNN has Biden with a 0.2% lead on Trump, which comes out to about 10,500 votes. Perdue is 0.3% shy of hitting the magic 50% mark he would need to avoid a runoff. With CNN saying 2% of the vote is still out there, and Senate republicans outperforming Trump generally, it seems unlikley but not out of the question that Perdue could get to 50% especially if a good chunk of what remains outstanding is military ballots.
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Georgia, military ballots, as well as provisional ballots. Finally, due to the margin, there will automatically be a recount.
Thanks. Understand the automatic recount. I was more uncertain about the apparent delay in the initial count.
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Georgia and Arizona voting updates:
1) Georgia. Biden is up 10,498 as very small trickles of votes continue to come in today. Gwinnett County will have an additional update shortly.
2) Arizona. Biden up 16,952 end of yesterday. As of this morning, 77k outstanding ballots.
Rural Trump Counties 14.5K
Rural Biden Counties 5.3K
Pima County 18.7K
Maricopa County 38.4K
Provisionals 40.6K
Others 30.2K
Awaiting curing 6.2K
Curing signature deadline is 5pm Tuesday.
By the way Navajo Nation voters voted for Biden 97%, over 76k votes, and, some had to ride horseback two hours to vote. They also voted for Dems in the Senate.
Biden is expected to win both Georgia and Arizona.
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For the record Alaska and NC are also still uncalled.
My understanding is they are uncalled because the deadline for mail-in ballots is this week. So all the votes have not been received, hence the reason they are still open.
But once these deadlines pass, they will call both for Trump (and it will not change the outcome).
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Georgia and Arizona voting updates:
1) Georgia. Biden is up 10,498 as very small trickles of votes continue to come in today. Gwinnett County will have an additional update shortly.
2) Arizona. Biden up 16,952 end of yesterday. As of this morning, 77k outstanding ballots.
Rural Trump Counties 14.5K
Rural Biden Counties 5.3K
Pima County 18.7K
Maricopa County 38.4K
Provisionals 40.6K
Others 30.2K
Awaiting curing 6.2K
Curing signature deadline is 5pm Tuesday.
By the way Navajo Nation voters voted for Biden 97%, over 76k votes, and, some had to ride horseback two hours to vote. They also voted for Dems in the Senate.
Biden is expected to win both Georgia and Arizona.
An example to explain some delays,
Gwinnett County processed 965 provisional votes. 20 were rejected without ID. 381 not on registered voter list. 513 accepted but voted at wrong precinct which is allowed in Georgia if you vote within the same county. These are to believed to be the most number of outstanding provisional ballots in Georgia.
New total is Biden up 10,622.
47 of 159 counties have now been certified.
This number will change rapidly but it won't affect the outcome/winner.
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For the record Alaska and NC are also still uncalled.
AK is important because the Senate seat is still up for grabs.
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Georgia and Arizona voting updates:
1) Georgia. Biden is up 10,498 as very small trickles of votes continue to come in today. Gwinnett County will have an additional update shortly.
2) Arizona. Biden up 16,952 end of yesterday. As of this morning, 77k outstanding ballots.
Rural Trump Counties 14.5K
Rural Biden Counties 5.3K
Pima County 18.7K
Maricopa County 38.4K
Provisionals 40.6K
Others 30.2K
Awaiting curing 6.2K
Curing signature deadline is 5pm Tuesday.
By the way Navajo Nation voters voted for Biden 97%, over 76k votes, and, some had to ride horseback two hours to vote. They also voted for Dems in the Senate.
Biden is expected to win both Georgia and Arizona.
Thanks for the detailed numbers. Very informative.
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Thanks for the detailed numbers. Very informative.
Sure. 👍
Biden is up by 11,591 in Georgia.
Biden is up by 17,131 in Arizona.
Both Georgia Republican candidates for Senate have called for the Republican, Georgia Secretary of State, to resign. (not kidding)
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Sure. 👍
Biden is up by 11,591 in Georgia.
Biden is up by 17,131 in Arizona.
Both Georgia Republican candidates for Senate have called for the Republican, Georgia Secretary of State, to resign. (not kidding)
I thought there were run off elections for the senate?
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I thought there were run off elections for the senate?
The Georgia run off elections are on January 5th. Tell your Georgia friends to vote.
Perdue and Loeffler have asked the Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to resign without providing any evidence as to why. The response was of course no and Raffensperger bit back with the notion the two Republican Senate Candidates have enough to worry about winning their own races. And they are officially playing the feud in Georgia. (Georgia has been one of the most transparent vote counting states out there btw)
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Sure. 👍
Biden is up by 11,591 in Georgia.
Biden is up by 17,131 in Arizona.
Both Georgia Republican candidates for Senate have called for the Republican, Georgia Secretary of State, to resign. (not kidding)
Resign...because it's taking him too long to declare Biden the winner? Or because he didn't toss the absentee ballots?
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Resign...because it's taking him too long to declare Biden the winner? Or because he didn't toss the absentee ballots?
And now Georgia Republican Governor has weighed in siding with team tin foil hat. There is even a passed around social media conspiracy. Someone googled Georgia and said there were more votes than people that live in the state. The googler had one problem, he/she googled the country of Georgia not the American State.
This may be the best state of Georgia intra party feud since Saturday night Wrestling at The Omni.
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And now Georgia Republican Governor has weighed in siding with team tin foil hat. There is even a passed around social media conspiracy. Someone googled Georgia and said there were more votes than people that live in the state. The googler had one problem, he/she googled the country of Georgia not the American State.
This may be the best state of Georgia intra party feud since Saturday night Wrestling at The Omni.
I saw a similar one going around about Wisconsin before it was quickly debunked.
Interesting strategy by the two Republicans.
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I saw a similar one going around about Wisconsin before it was quickly debunked.
Interesting strategy by the two Republicans.
In all seriousness, the strategy is the same for Trump and other GOP, stay in the game for the tin foil hat base.
In Georgia it is to keep the base interested for January 5th. For others, some are up for re-election, some want to run for 2024 President. Trump wants and need $, etc...as Omar from The Wire said, “It’s all in the game.” Unfortunately for the many others it isn’t a self serving money power game. It’s like an episode of “House of Cards”.
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And now Georgia Republican Governor has weighed in siding with team tin foil hat. There is even a passed around social media conspiracy. Someone googled Georgia and said there were more votes than people that live in the state. The googler had one problem, he/she googled the country of Georgia not the American State.
This may be the best state of Georgia intra party feud since Saturday night Wrestling at The Omni.
Dishonest politicians are as old as politics itself. But high-level officials fomenting conspiracy theories that could lead to domestic divisions is dangerous and irresponsible.
Until a few short years ago, it was unthinkable that a major party would engage in this kind of behavior so openly and recklessly. Now Republicans and their enablers do it without a second thought. Frightening.
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A partly accurate (and humorous) take on Trump’s Election Day strategy:
https://mobile.twitter.com/nancyleong/status/1324122533927424000
As I understand the state of the race, Trump is seeking various forms of relief in his lawsuits:
- recount WI
- stop counting in NC
- count faster in NV
- count backwards in PA
- count only the ballots he likes in GA
- don't count Detroit
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I actually think that doing the anti tin foil hat thing in Georgia would be helpful for Republicans. I would think not driving Democratic turnout would be smart.
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I actually think that doing the anti tin foil hat thing in Georgia would be helpful for Republicans. I would think not driving Democratic turnout would be smart.
Agreed, if they just kept their mouth shut I honestly think the two runoff’s would have been a resounding Republican win. Democrats wouldn’t have shown up without a Trump to go against.
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I actually think that doing the anti tin foil hat thing in Georgia would be helpful for Republicans. I would think not driving Democratic turnout would be smart.
I don't feel sorry for them, but they've sure put themselves in a pickle. Don't show your fealty, risk upsetting the base. Do show fealty, risk driving a motivated electorate on the other side to the polls.
I imagine they're betting that the risk of losing the Senate will be enough to get centrist Republicans and independents to hold their noses and vote for the GOP candidates, and that allows them to play footsie with the loony wing of the party. I think they need to stir up the hardcore Trumpists because, as 2018 showed, they won't come out if Trump isn't on the ballot.
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Dishonest politicians are as old as politics itself. But high-level officials fomenting conspiracy theories that could lead to domestic divisions is dangerous and irresponsible.
Until a few short years ago, it was unthinkable that a major party would engage in this kind of behavior so openly and recklessly. Now Republicans and their enablers do it without a second thought. Frightening.
Did we forget Hillary and the entire Dem party whipping hysteria, without evidence, that Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump?
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Did we forget Hillary and the entire Dem party whipping hysteria, without evidence, that Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump?
I'll just leave this here.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
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Did we forget Hillary and the entire Dem party whipping hysteria, without evidence, that Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump?
"Without evidence"?
You're a little behind in your reading.
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Did we forget Hillary and the entire Dem party whipping hysteria, without evidence, that Russia stole the 2016 election for Trump?
There was evidence Russia interfered.
There was basically no evidence that there was collusion between Russia and TRump.
Now, let's try to focus on the topic of the thread.
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Since this thread is doomed t be locked, I'll also throw in that Trump claimed rampant (3-5 million vote) fraud in 2017 - which cost him the popular vote then too. So this isn't new. He's a poor loser, even when he wins!
https://apnews.com/article/a79bb23654e7486a81f555b3bdc9bbc7
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Shameless.
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Since this thread is doomed t be locked, I'll also throw in that Trump claimed rampant (3-5 million vote) fraud in 2017 - which cost him the popular vote then too. So this isn't new. He's a poor loser, even when he wins!
https://apnews.com/article/a79bb23654e7486a81f555b3bdc9bbc7
Even Fox News is over it.
https://youtu.be/48iGFmG-iCk
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Maricopa County, AZ will have an update within the next hour. And there are still thousands of votes from Pima County out there.
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A partly accurate (and humorous) take on Trump’s Election Day strategy:
https://mobile.twitter.com/nancyleong/status/1324122533927424000
As I understand the state of the race, Trump is seeking various forms of relief in his lawsuits:
- recount WI
- stop counting in NC
- count faster in NV
- count backwards in PA
- count only the ballots he likes in GA
- don't count Detroit
I realize (although accurate) that his is partially in jest. In all honesty, though, Trump's strategy is pretty simple.
Delay, delay, delay. The goal is to push off certification of the vote, and create enough discord/confusion about the validity of the vote that legislatures can pick their own electors. Let the legislatures decide the election instead of the voters.
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when Stacey Adams had a legit Georgia voting case in 2018, this was the response then:
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1325951831667699712
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when Stacey Adams had a legit Georgia voting case in 2018, this was the response then:
https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1325951831667699712
And that response lost Trump GA in 2020. Oops!
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Georgia Update:
Biden now leads by 12,337 votes.
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Trump just asked a federal court to prevent Pennsylvania from certifying its result.
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I realize (although accurate) that his is partially in jest. In all honesty, though, Trump's strategy is pretty simple.
Delay, delay, delay. The goal is to push off certification of the vote, and create enough discord/confusion about the validity of the vote that legislatures can pick their own electors. Let the legislatures decide the election instead of the voters.
So, I've been reading about this and while it would seem feasible under the Constitution, it's very likely also illegal under current law. How so? Basically, the Constitution requires each state to identify before Election Day how it will choose its electors. Every state has a law saying they'll do it by popular vote. So, for a legislature to throw out the popular vote and choose its own slate of electors, it would be violating its own law and the Constitution, which, again, states that the decision would have had to have occurred before the election.
That's my reading, anyhow. What I'm slightly less certain about is what would happen in the exceptionally unlikely event the courts throw out the popular vote from multiple states (Pennsylvania wouldn't be enough, it's safe to say). Would it be possible for legislatures to create a new law authorizing themselves to choose the electors then, or are they stuck with the law as it existed Nov. 3. I suspect it's the latter, since it's still the same election, though I can't be sure.
Anyhow, my point is, the Trumpist fever dream about a bunch of GOP-controlled state legislators just ignoring the will of the people and turning their electoral college votes over to Trump ain't happening.
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I realize (although accurate) that his is partially in jest. In all honesty, though, Trump's strategy is pretty simple.
Delay, delay, delay. The goal is to push off certification of the vote, and create enough discord/confusion about the validity of the vote that legislatures can pick their own electors. Let the legislatures decide the election instead of the voters.
That’s not going to happen. This is all political theatre.
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Trump just asked a federal court to prevent Pennsylvania from certifying its result.
The filing is quite, shall we say, lacking. It argues that by allowing both mail and in-person voting - like every other state in the country - Pennsylvania has created an unlawful "two-tier" voting system. Good luck arguing that a voting system that's been present in the U.S. since the Civil War is suddenly unconstitutional.
What's notable is that the suit makes no claims of fraudulent actions that might have changed the outcome.
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That’s not going to happen. This is all political theatre.
Agreed.
That said, I suspect Trump truly believes it will work. That’s the thing that scares me the most about him; he really believes the stuff he says.
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So, I've been reading about this and while it would seem feasible under the Constitutionally, it's very likely also illegal under current law. How so? Basically, the Constitution requires each state to identify before Election Day how it will choose its electors. Every state has a law saying they'll do it by popular vote. So, for a legislature to throw out the popular vote and choose its own slate of electors, it would be violating its own law and the Constitution, which, again, states that the decision would have had to have occurred before the election.
That's my reading, anyhow. What I'm slightly less certain about is what would happen in the exceptionally unlikely event the courts throw out the popular vote from multiple states (Pennsylvania wouldn't be enough, it's safe to say). Would it be possible for legislatures to create a new law authorizing themselves to choose the electors then, or are they stuck with the law as it existed Nov. 3. I suspect it's the latter, since it's still the same election, though I can't be sure.
Anyhow, my point is, the Trumpist fever dream about a bunch of GOP-controlled state legislators just ignoring the will of the people and turning their electoral college votes over to Trumo ain't happening.
Right. The Constitution says Congress decides when they are chosen. This happened already. Federal law requires it prior to the election.
The Supreme Court isn’t going to allow this without a finding of substantial fraud. Which isn’t happening.
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After adding 3 pro Trump County votes all day, Maricopa has an update.
3196 DT
3056 JB
Biden leads Trump in Arizona by 14,746. This was considered to be Trump’s best remaining batch from Maricopa County. And over 18,000 pro Biden Pima County ballots have yet to be added to the count. Trump is running out of outstanding votes to add.
60k remaining votes. One third of those are in Pima County where Biden has a 20 point margin advantage there.
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Trump's worst enemy right now - besides reality - is Rudy Giuliani. He literally can't get anything right.
https://www.politico.com/states/new-jersey/story/2020/11/09/man-featured-at-giuliani-press-conference-is-a-sex-offender-1335241
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So, I've been reading about this and while it would seem feasible under the Constitution, it's very likely also illegal under current law. How so? Basically, the Constitution requires each state to identify before Election Day how it will choose its electors. Every state has a law saying they'll do it by popular vote. So, for a legislature to throw out the popular vote and choose its own slate of electors, it would be violating its own law and the Constitution, which, again, states that the decision would have had to have occurred before the election.
That's my reading, anyhow. What I'm slightly less certain about is what would happen in the exceptionally unlikely event the courts throw out the popular vote from multiple states (Pennsylvania wouldn't be enough, it's safe to say). Would it be possible for legislatures to create a new law authorizing themselves to choose the electors then, or are they stuck with the law as it existed Nov. 3. I suspect it's the latter, since it's still the same election, though I can't be sure.
Anyhow, my point is, the Trumpist fever dream about a bunch of GOP-controlled state legislators just ignoring the will of the people and turning their electoral college votes over to Trump ain't happening.
I agree with your reading, and that it is extremely unlikely to happen.
The key thing in Trump's plan, is delaying certification of the vote. If there is no certification then there is no popular vote. Trump's attorney's argument is then that it is the job of the legislature to select electors, and without a certified popular vote they are free to choose who to send.
Such a scenario hasn't ever happened that I am aware of, in which case it will likely depend on the Supreme Court to set precedent. Their thought, is they've packed the court with people that will side with them.
Their problem, is that their cases are getting thrown out as frivolous faster than they can submit them.
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I'll just leave this here.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
So it's not an unhinged tin foil hat theory if it fits one's political view ... got it.
And, in two years, when the Senate releases a 5 volume set on 2020 election fraud, you will accept that too without question ... I'm holding my breath.
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Also even if he somehow manages shenanigans in PA, he still has AZ, GA and NV.
The Court will NEVER allow an election where the winner has 309 not to stand. The system isn’t THAT broken.
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Also even if he somehow manages shenanigans in PA, he still has AZ, GA and NV.
The Court will NEVER allow an election where the winner has 309 not to stand. The system isn’t THAT broken.
It is not "the court" It is several state courts ruling on different claims. The (Trump) hope is this aggregates into changing the outcome.
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So it's not an unhinged tin foil hat theory if it fits one's political view ... got it.
And, in two years, when the Senate releases a 5 volume set on 2020 election fraud, you will accept that too without question ... I'm holding my breath.
The Senate never called it fraud, it was tampering. If massive fraud is found by the Senate (unlikely) and they publish a bipartisan report on it, people should pay attention. Just like they did for tampering. Why is this hard to understand for you?
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It is not "the court" It is several state courts ruling on different claims. The (Trump) hope is this aggregates into changing the outcome.
Which would all be appealed to the Supreme Court.
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So it's not an unhinged tin foil hat theory if it fits one's political view ... got it.
And, in two years, when the Senate releases a 5 volume set on 2020 election fraud, you will accept that too without question ... I'm holding my breath.
It's not my political view. It's the view of Marco Rubio, John Cornyn, Tom Cotton, Roy Blunt, Richard Burr and every other Republican on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
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Also even if he somehow manages shenanigans in PA, he still has AZ, GA and NV.
The Court will NEVER allow an election where the winner has 309 not to stand. The system isn’t THAT broken.
I think it all ends with PA. Trump et al. challenges the vote based on allowing ballots to come in after Election Day. The Supreme Court refuses to hear the case on the grounds that there aren't enough votes in question to affect the outcome of the election.
Effectively, they punt, instead of having to enter a political fray and potentially make precedent in a case that has no meaning. Fundamental oddity being Trump et al., being significantly behind in the election and fighting counting more ballots...they can't win if no more ballots are counted.
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The Senate never called it fraud, it was tampering. If massive fraud is found by the Senate (unlikely) and they publish a bipartisan report on it, people should pay attention. Just like they did for tampering. Why is this hard to understand for you?
So, they did not steal the election. They tampered like they do every election cycle.
And that means that this person, and everyone in her party that supports her claims (which was most of them), are as reprehensible as Trump is now.
Hillary Clinton: Trump is an ‘illegitimate president’
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html
Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
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Richard Pilger quits, wow:
https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1325992179895037953
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Somehow I think if you agree with Putin across multiple elections you should really start to challenge your assumptions.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84 (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84)
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So, they did not steal the election. They tampered like they do every election cycle.
They = the Russians. So I don't know what your point is here.
And that means that this person, and everyone in her party that supports her claims (which was most of them), are as reprehensible as Trump is now.
Hilary is not a good person. Trump is not a good person. In many cases I'm also disappointed in the political parties that back them (that they represent) , but most people affiliated with those parties should not be lumped into how awful they both are personally.
But your point was election fraud is likely to be determined by the Senate (try to keep up). Please tell me more.
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I think it all ends with PA. Trump et al. challenges the vote based on allowing ballots to come in after Election Day. The Supreme Court refuses to hear the case on the grounds that there aren't enough votes in question to affect the outcome of the election.
Effectively, they punt, instead of having to enter a political fray and potentially make precedent in a case that has no meaning. Fundamental oddity being Trump et al., being significantly behind in the election and fighting counting more ballots...they can't win if no more ballots are counted.
With all due respect, elected r’s are not going to accept defeat. If the courts rule against them, they will accuse the courts of being corrupt.
They have already made their bed. Now they will lie in it. If they abandon trump, they will lose both GA senate seats.
This war is very far from being over. The destruction of democracy and usurping full power is their only goal.
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Somehow I think if you agree with Putin across multiple elections you should really start to challenge your assumptions.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84 (https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-vladimir-putin-elections-275d5b3306bce272a77c17eb05d54b84)
The Republicans and Putin on the same page. Just a coincidence, I’m sure…
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This is what he does when he loses:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/694890328273346560?s=19
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This is what he does when he loses:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/694890328273346560?s=19
He's still claiming he won Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Georgia.
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Sounds like a lot of posters in this thread are in the same position
Good for Bruni for at least saying this ...
We Still Don’t Really Understand Trump — or America
Democrats expected better. What happened?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/opinion/sunday/trump-election-performance.html
Those of us surprised by Trump’s and the Republican Party’s showing in this election keep being blinded by our arrogance. We keep extrapolating from our own perceptions.
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I was worried on election night, but now that things have settled down, I am not surprised by Trump’s showing in this election. When all is said and done, Biden will likely have flipped four or five states. Trump will have flipped none.
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But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.
They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans). They lost around 11 seats to Republicans for a net change of -8 for the Ds. This even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20 seats. The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.
They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)
They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D
They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.
Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.
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So, why did this happen?
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But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.
They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans). They lost around 8 seats (even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20). The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.
They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)
They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D
They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.
Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.
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So, why did this happen?
Simple, we live in a super hyper-partisan nation.
People identify with the GOP as much as they identify with their religion. For them, they can easily say that they will vote against their "home (GOP)" but doing so once they are in the booth is another story.
So a lot changed their mind and stuck with their religion at the last moment. Others split their vote, went against Trump (which is why he lost), but then supported the Senate/Congress candidates to hedge their losses and calm their angst.
This was not a surprise to me at all.
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Simple, we live in a super hyper-partisan nation.
People identify with the GOP as much as they identify with their religion. For them, they can easily say that they will vote against their "home (GOP)" but doing so once they are in the booth is another story.
So a lot changed their mind and stuck with their religion at the last moment. Others split their vote, went against Trump (which is why he lost), but then supported the Senate/Congress candidates to hedge their losses and calm their angst.
This was not a surprise to me at all.
This argument only works if we are a majority R country. Are we?
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But if you look down the ballot after President, the democrats did ... terrible.
They flipped ZERO republican House seats (winning three open seats previously held by retiring republicans). They lost around 11 seats to Republicans for a net change of -8 for the Ds. This even though the polls said they should pick up between 12 and 20 seats. The House is looking like it will be 223 to 211 (with one runoff), the narrowest since the new deal.
They picked up a net of one seat in the Senate, even though the (now always wrong) Nate Silver gave them a 75% chance of flipping the Senate. The Dems are widely expected to lose the two GA runoffs (Toobin all you want, Osoff is a professional loser)
They lost a Governship (MT) so the Govs are 27 R to 23 D
They flipped ZERO state legislatures and lost NH.
Seems like the message was ... get rid of trump (barely) and then destroy the rest of the Democrat party.
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So, why did this happen?
If the goal was to destroy the Democratic Party, it failed.
Before the election, it controlled the House of Representatives and nothing else. After the election, it controls the House of Representatives and the White House.
If that amounts to destruction, I’ll take it.
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If the goal was to destroy the Democratic Party, it failed.
Before the election, it controlled the House of Representatives and nothing else. After the election, it controls the House of Representatives and the White House.
If that amounts to destruction, I’ll take it.
Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.
https://www.newsweek.com/dem-congresswoman-says-party-will-torn-apart-if-it-pushes-progressive-platforms-dont-say-1545273
"Don't say socialism ever again," she said, according to Erica Werner, a congressional reporter at The Washington Post. "If we run this race again, we will get f***ing torn apart again in 2022," Spanberger reportedly added. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi reportedly pushed back against the Virginia congresswoman's suggestion, noting that Democrats likely won the U.S. House and, possibly, the presidency this year.
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Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.
You reply to my post with “thank you Speaker Pelosi?”
You may want to sit down for this…but I am not Nancy Pelosi.
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This argument only works if we are a majority R country. Are we?
In terms of the Senate (more red states than blue states) and gerrymandered districts, yes we are a majority R country. The house seats that the GOP picked up are largely heavily red districts that they recently lost. They simply returned to the status quo. The GOP did lose a Georgia seat though, which is striking.
In terms of the population. No we are not, which is why the democrats won the popular vote 7/8 of the last elections.
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Thank you, Speaker Pelosi ... and keep saying this and good luck in 2022.
Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?
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Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?
Oooh! Oooh! I know the answer to this one!
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Where do things stand today in governor's offices, state legislatures, the U.S. House and the U.S. Senate compared to the day Donald Trump was elected president?
The Ds are a 190-year-old party, the oldest political party in the world.
Four years ago...
President = R
Senate = R
House = R
Majority of Governors = R
Majority of State Legislatures = R
This is the first time in nearly 200 years the Ds were the majority of nothing.
If this lopsided setup held for two election cycles (2018 and 2020), it would have meant the Ds were done as a political party (the modern Whigs).
So yes, the Rs are in a worse position than 2016, but they only had one way to go. But they are doing much better than forecasted (probably a comment about how lost the pollsters are). And now the demographics for 2022 and 2024 (which Senate seats and Governorships are up, the President's party loses House seats in the mid-term, etc) all turn negative for the Ds again.
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A general comment ...
Yes, we are a highly polarized country. But this is not unique for a developed country. They largely are all in the same position.
It is really about an urban (left or D)/rural (right or R) divide. And the populations are about evenly split between urban and rural.
And what is driving this? The lifestyles between urban and rural are differing more and more every day. We are living differently from each other to a degree not seen before.
As such our political priorities are different. Urban is about social/cultural issues. Rural is about economic issues.
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Agreed, if they just kept their mouth shut I honestly think the two runoff’s would have been a resounding Republican win. Democrats wouldn’t have shown up without a Trump to go against.
I think they're worried about their own turnout after seeing Georgia get flipped. Even without Trump, Stacy Abrams is still there and will spearhead the Dem Senate campaigns. They've already turned their attention hard to those races.
Meanwhile, you can see how much Trump juiced Republican turnout from 2018 by the House races. Without him on the ballot, I think many Georgia Republicans could stay home.
If you look at the last major Georgia special for Secretary of State in 2018, turnout plummeted from the general. It's not surprising, but I think it's entirely plausible Abrams & Yang could keep more of their base energized on the heels of flipping the state blue. Just look at the Atlanta celebrations.
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Sounds like a lot of posters in this thread are in the same position
Good for Bruni for at least saying this ...
We Still Don’t Really Understand Trump — or America
Democrats expected better. What happened?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/opinion/sunday/trump-election-performance.html
Those of us surprised by Trump’s and the Republican Party’s showing in this election keep being blinded by our arrogance. We keep extrapolating from our own perceptions.
Biden is going to win the Electoral College with 306 Electoral Votes. Biden has a margin of millions in the popular vote, and there are still 5 million more votes to count in CA, NY, IL. Winning the popular vote 7 out if the past 8 elections is a lot.
That's not close. That's a rout. If everyone can say that first, I am willing to say that Trump has a 40% following, which of course is bigger than him. His following is rural White, and White men. Everyone else? No. As Nick Bakay used to say, the numbers never lie.
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The betting/prediction markets called the election last week far better than the polls or outfits like FiveThirtyEight.
Currently they have the republicans at 80% to hold the majority in the Senate.
https://www.predictit.org/markets/detail/4366/Which-party-will-control-the-Senate-after-2020-election
Perdue beat Osoff by over 3% but narrowly missed 50% to avoid a run-off (49.9%). The sum total of Republican votes in the Special election topped Democrat votes (about 15 names were on the ballot).
Finally, what was the constant last week? Republicans outperformed. It is just wishful thinking that is going to change. If anything it is worse for Democrats. Without Trump on the ballot, and he will have long conceded by Jan 5, all the Democrat energy will be gone.
So you can wish and hope all you want, but expect both republicans to prevail.... unless someone is caught Toobin-ing on Zoom.
Lastly, Osoff has shown he is good at only one thing, losing races. Abrams is also famous for what? Losing. Why you pin a strategy on people that cannot win is beyond me.
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Biden is going to win the Electoral College with 306 Electoral Votes. Biden has a margin of millions in the popular vote, and there are still 5 million more votes to count in CA, NY, IL. Winning the popular vote 7 out if the past 8 elections is a lot.
That's not close. That's a rout. If everyone can say that first, I am willing to say that Trump has a 40% following, which of course is bigger than him. His following is rural White, and White men. Everyone else? No. As Nick Bakay used to say, the numbers never lie.
The republicans 2022 strategy is based on the belief that democrats truly believe this.
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The republicans 2022 strategy is based on the belief that democrats truly believe this.
The Republican strategy is not one person, one vote. Republicans don't believe they can win without tricks, gimmicks, and voter suppression. All of these legal challenges right now just so happen to be in high Black populated geographies. Imagine that.
Let's abolish the archaic Electoral College if everything is so equal. One person, one vote. Lets's stop district gerrymandering. Let's stop purging voter rolls. Let's give Washington D.C. and Puerto Rico fair representation. Let's define Senator quantity based on the quantity of population. On and on. Voting is about representation of the people, not empty space. Since it is about being fair and all.
You keep telling yourself otherwise. Let's make it fair, if that is what you are about.
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Abrams is also famous for what? Losing. Why you pin a strategy on people that cannot win is beyond me.
Abrams just won in Georgia this past week. Who do you think was leading the registration turnout there? It was her New Georgia Project organization. What, you think one late in the race visit from Biden flipped the state?
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Pennsylvania update:
Biden is now leading by 45,103. This of course is more margin than Trump had in Pennsylvania in 2016. Biden's lead is expected to possibly double that when all remaining votes are counted.
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A general comment ...
Yes, we are a highly polarized country. But this is not unique for a developed country. They largely are all in the same position.
It is really about an urban (left or D)/rural (right or R) divide. And the populations are about evenly split between urban and rural.
And what is driving this? The lifestyles between urban and rural are differing more and more every day. We are living differently from each other to a degree not seen before.
As such our political priorities are different. Urban is about social/cultural issues. Rural is about economic issues.
Truth. Urban centers drive the economy of this nation and rural people feel like they're left in the dust. Rural people do not believe what the Dems believe: That Dem programs will indeed help rural downtrodden. Dems really need a way to get rural people employed, because right now their towns are dying as jobs disappear.
For some reason, though, rural people believe the hogwash the Repubs sell them about "getting their jobs back from" <insert country here>, and that it's all <minority's> fault. Rural people, too, tend to believe that the trade war with China over the last 4 years was a good thing. They just don't see that the unnecessary trade war, caused by backing out of the TPP, has irreparably damaged the ability of our nation's farmers to sell products to Asia. Those supply chains have reformed between China and centra/south America.
Same with manufacturing jobs never coming back unless the factories are automated (which we're very close to, and will further the urban/rural economic divide). Americans, with our endless desire for consumption, are not willing to pay the 3x-10x for goods manufactured in the USA over China just to pay someone in Janesville a liveable wage.
I don't believe that either party has an actionable plan for revitalizing rural areas. I think that the Republicans have captured the rural people's hearts, anger, and fear though.
I believe that projects like Starlink and legislation like Net Neutrality will allow everyone in software, like myself, to at least consider moving away from top-5 urban centers if we want to have a good career. I move my business anywhere because of a lack of super-fast internet. Maybe someday soon.
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It is clear that Republicans outperformed predictions last week. However the House is gerrymandered to hell so it's hard to draw conclusions from that.
Really the key is to see if Republicans have actually made inroads with this group of previously overlooked voters, or if it was simply a cult of personality thing.
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The Ds are a 190-year-old party, the oldest political party in the world.
Four years ago...
President = R
Senate = R
House = R
Majority of Governors = R
Majority of State Legislatures = R
This is the first time in nearly 200 years the Ds were the majority of nothing.
If this lopsided setup held for two election cycles (2018 and 2020), it would have meant the Ds were done as a political party (the modern Whigs).
So yes, the Rs are in a worse position than 2016, but they only had one way to go. But they are doing much better than forecasted (probably a comment about how lost the pollsters are). And now the demographics for 2022 and 2024 (which Senate seats and Governorships are up, the President's party loses House seats in the mid-term, etc) all turn negative for the Ds again.
Two things established here, then:
1. The Republican party is worse off after the 2020 election than 2016 election, despite your hyperbole about the destruction of the Democrats.
2. You haven't looked at the 2022 Senate races if you think it sets up badly for the Democrats.
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2022 could see a scenario where both the House and Senate flip.
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Truth. Urban centers drive the economy of this nation and rural people feel like they're left in the dust. Rural people do not believe what the Dems believe: That Dem programs will indeed help rural downtrodden. Dems really need a way to get rural people employed, because right now their towns are dying as jobs disappear.
For some reason, though, rural people believe the hogwash the Repubs sell them about "getting their jobs back from" <insert country here>, and that it's all <minority's> fault. Rural people, too, tend to believe that the trade war with China over the last 4 years was a good thing. They just don't see that the unnecessary trade war, caused by backing out of the TPP, has irreparably damaged the ability of our nation's farmers to sell products to Asia. Those supply chains have reformed between China and centra/south America.
Same with manufacturing jobs never coming back unless the factories are automated (which we're very close to, and will further the urban/rural economic divide). Americans, with our endless desire for consumption, are not willing to pay the 3x-10x for goods manufactured in the USA over China just to pay someone in Janesville a liveable wage.
I don't believe that either party has an actionable plan for revitalizing rural areas. I think that the Republicans have captured the rural people's hearts, anger, and fear though.
I believe that projects like Starlink and legislation like Net Neutrality will allow everyone in software, like myself, to at least consider moving away from top-5 urban centers if we want to have a good career. I move my business anywhere because of a lack of super-fast internet. Maybe someday soon.
Let's agree to not blame the American consumer, many of whom are the rural people discussed, for corporate greed.
No one is forcing wealthy corporations to increase prices to offset having to pay workers a respectable wage/benefits. They can make less margin and still do just fine. Average CEO makes 35 times more than the average worker they employ.
Many American consumers buy things at Walmart or insert here because their day to day life situation doesn't allow them to buy similar items at the more expensive store down the street. They are doing what they have to do. Dollar Store CEO makes $15-30 million a year. etc...The over emphasis of delivering quarterly stock market numbers is one of the biggest problems we have in society.
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BTW, my guess is that if you added up the total votes for Democratic and Republican House members, the percentage of Democratic House *votes* would exceed the percentage of Democratic House *seats* by a decent margin. That's a result of gerrymandering.
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As such our political priorities are different. Urban is about social/cultural issues. Rural is about economic issues.
This is absolutely false. Religion is considerably more engrained in rural communities as they trend largely uneducated susceptible to scare tactics ("socialism" hyperbole attacks, "radical leftists") and they are 100% obsessed with social issues like stopping gay marriage, stopping abortion, protecting zero gun regulations.
You should argue that the suburbs are the ones concerned with economics as that's pretty much who decides elections.
Also whiles it is isn't unusual to be polarized it is extremely unusual to be this different in beliefs. The right has pulled farther right, which makes it by far the most Conservative party in the westernized world. The left at the farthest left is no different than the new deal trying to pass more socialized programs to lift up the bottom portion of our country. There's no parties between this our polarization is different than places like Europe, Australia, Canada, NZ, S Africa.
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This is absolutely false. Religion is considerably more engrained in rural communities as they trend largely uneducated susceptible to scare tactics ("socialism" hyperbole attacks, "radical leftists") and they are 100% obsessed with social issues like stopping gay marriage, stopping abortion, protecting zero gun regulations.
You should argue that the suburbs are the ones concerned with economics as that's pretty much who decides elections.
Yeah, this is largely true. Setting aside the stuff about who is and isn't more susceptible to scare tactics, cultural issues are no less important to rural voters than urban voters. It wasn't the urban voters who raged about Obama's "guns and religion" remarks, after all. Urban voters aren't the ones laying claim to the title "real Americans." Or pining for the past. Or thinking God takes sides in an election.
I'd suggest the cultural issues are perhaps more important than economic ones in rural areas because their culture is often tied to their economy. But that's splitting hairs. The reality is no side can claim they're less motivated by the "culture wars."
Also, if the GOP is hanging its future on rural voters, it's a losing strategy. About 46 million people live in rural counties, compared to 175 million in the suburbs and 98 million in urban cores. And the percentage of Americans living in rural areas is shrinking.
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Richard Pilger quits, wow:
https://twitter.com/davidgura/status/1325992179895037953
Thanks for posting. This is an important story that has gone ignored here. Barr is quietly working behind the scenes to invalidate a legal election. His sergeant was so appalled that he resigned.
Osoff has shown he is good at only one thing, losing races. Abrams is also famous for what? Losing. Why you pin a strategy on people that cannot win is beyond me.
You know who else was famous for losing, Smuggles?
Joe Biden.
+++
And then there's this ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/arkansas-police-resigns-parler.html
As the results of the presidential election unfolded last week and former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. took the lead in the Electoral College, the police chief of Marshall, Ark., a town of roughly 1,350 people north of Little Rock, shared his feeling of rage online.
“Will you and several hundred more go with me to D.C. and fight our way into the Congress and arrest every Democrat who has participated in this coup?” Chief Lang Holland posted Friday on Parler, a right-wing messaging site. “We may have to shoot and kill many of the Communist B.L.M. and ANTIFA Democrat foot soldiers to accomplish this!!!”
“Death to all Marxist Democrats. Take no prisoners leave no survivors!!” Chief Holland added.
Quinn Foster, a 26-year-old Arkansan who runs the Ozarks Coalition, an anti-racist watch group, and shared screen shots of Mr. Holland’s Parler posts with The New York Times, said he was alerted to the posts at 7 a.m. on Saturday. An hour later he had taken screen shots of Mr. Holland’s online statements on Parler that were then shared with the mayor’s office in Marshall.
By 3:20 p.m. the mayor’s office released a statement saying that Chief Holland had resigned, effective immediately.
Resigned? How is this insane traitor not in jail awaiting a trial that hopefully will result in him getting a nice long "vacation"?
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81 of 159, Georgia Counties have now been certified, over half.
Biden leads by 12,292 votes.
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I can tell you this, after being out and about in the public the last day and a half, I’m more convinced than ever that we are a nation of the willfully ignorant. Also, we need to teach civics and government again.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/us/arkansas-police-resigns-parler.html
As the results of the presidential election unfolded last week and former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. took the lead in the Electoral College, the police chief of Marshall, Ark., a town of roughly 1,350 people north of Little Rock, shared his feeling of rage online.
“Will you and several hundred more go with me to D.C. and fight our way into the Congress and arrest every Democrat who has participated in this coup?” Chief Lang Holland posted Friday on Parler, a right-wing messaging site. “We may have to shoot and kill many of the Communist B.L.M. and ANTIFA Democrat foot soldiers to accomplish this!!!”
“Death to all Marxist Democrats. Take no prisoners leave no survivors!!” Chief Holland added.
Quinn Foster, a 26-year-old Arkansan who runs the Ozarks Coalition, an anti-racist watch group, and shared screen shots of Mr. Holland’s Parler posts with The New York Times, said he was alerted to the posts at 7 a.m. on Saturday. An hour later he had taken screen shots of Mr. Holland’s online statements on Parler that were then shared with the mayor’s office in Marshall.
By 3:20 p.m. the mayor’s office released a statement saying that Chief Holland had resigned, effective immediately.
Resigned? How is this insane traitor not in jail awaiting a trial that hopefully will result in him getting a nice long "vacation"?
Just your run-of-the-mill republican. (This is not sarcasm.)
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81 of 159, Georgia Counties have now been certified, over half.
Biden leads by 12,292 votes.
Certification does not matter to these people. Trump will not concede after ALL of the states are certified.
I hope to be wrong, but I am not convinced the transition will be without violence. After all, these are the same people who threatened to murder Fauci.
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Trump may not officially concede but eventually the process will begin after all of these lawsuits die off. While he would love the idea of being a despot, he's too lazy to actually be one. And there won't be much violence either. You are giving these guys way too much credit.
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Certification does not matter to these people. Trump will not concede after ALL of the states are certified.
I hope to be wrong, but I am not convinced the transition will be without violence. After all, these are the same people who threatened to murder Fauci.
1) In the voting thread, I am most interested in all things voting.
2) It doesn't matter if Trump concedes. Trump will leave when it's time to leave. He is not likely to publicly concede. And those around him will let him do that until the end.
Many people close to him have said this.
What you are seeing right now is an intentional strategy by those around him, to keep their base voters interested, particularly for the January 5th Georgia run off elections. They don't care about Trump. They never did. Republicans have calculated (correctly) that they need the Trumpers in order to win January 5th in Georgia. Trump is for Trump. All of the other GOP leaders are for Trump voters.
Many gutless GOP leaders see little incentive to speak up and take on DT and his supporters. And if any unrest takes place between now and then, as they stoke the flames, they don't care. They never did. But Biden is winning Georgia, and, he'll be sworn in in late January. Those things will happen.
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Biden leads popular vote by 4.6 million, and, that number is only going to increase. It is the largest % for an incumbent challenger since FDR in 1932.
Also, Trump's lawsuit in Arizona is over 186 votes. Biden leads by more than 14,000 there. In the 5 states where Trump has lawsuits, Biden leads by 256,000 votes.
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Don't forget the Nebraska district for one EV got flipped to Biden too.
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This is very likely Trump's major reason for continuing this fight. His campaign needs the money.
https://twitter.com/toddgillman/status/1326019818588409857?s=20
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This is very likely Trump's major reason for continuing this fight. His campaign needs the money.
https://twitter.com/toddgillman/status/1326019818588409857?s=20
His campaign needs money, and if he's smart he's going to launch his next venture in the coming month. He needs to control the news cycle for a successful launch, imo.
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This is very likely Trump's major reason for continuing this fight. His campaign needs the money.
https://twitter.com/toddgillman/status/1326019818588409857?s=20
Ha. The fundraising emails that went out last week said 50 percent was going to retire campaign debt. Now it's up to 60 percent. Must be in a big hole.
In the meantime, South Dakota's governor is sending out a fundraising request that implies the money will assist Trump's efforts, but the fine print indicates the money will go to her campaign instead.
Grifters.
https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-donald-trump-south-dakota-elections-campaigns-b922c257150cb723f738d2591524279b
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And Bill Barr's memo yesterday had enough wriggle-room for Justice Department officials to ignore it completely. All theatre.
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His campaign needs money, and if he's smart he's going to launch his next venture in the coming month. He needs to control the news cycle for a successful launch, imo.
^^^^^^^^
Bingo. He will never concede. If he did, it would take away the #1 thing he'll b!tch about for the first few years on the new Trump News Network. As long as he continues to play the victim card, the True Believers will continue to tune in.
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And Bill Barr's memo yesterday had enough wriggle-room for Justice Department officials to ignore it completely. All theatre.
Yeah. People are probably freaking out about Barr's memo more than they need to. The timing is sketchy, but he's basically telling US Attorneys to investigate credible claims that would alter the result of the election, and ignore the rest ... which is what they should be doing.
The vote gap is all these states right now is such that even if fraud is discovered, it's hard to imagine it being on such a scale that it would change tens of thousands of votes.
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I agree with the money part, that was my theory from day 1.
And I agree with the AG Barr wiggle room.
Where I get concerned is what Pompeo said today and Gov Kemp's pressure on GA's SoS. Plus nearly every GOPer signing off on it.
I want to believe a lot of this is to keep the GA GOP base engaged until the run off, or as long as possible. If Perdue and Loeffler had won outright, the GOP may have forced Trump to concede, but now they need his base more than ever in GA. It's essentially a national election.
And I think both sides of the aisle can see Mitch's strategy, etc. HOWEVER, there is a portion of Trump's base that sees less strategy and more call to arms and that's what scares me.
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In a smirking exchange with reporters, Trump Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in which Pompeo was just asked whether his State Department will be cooperating with the the transition team of President-elect Joe Biden. Pompeo's response: "There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration."
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In a smirking exchange with reporters, Trump Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in which Pompeo was just asked whether his State Department will be cooperating with the the transition team of President-elect Joe Biden. Pompeo's response: "There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration."
Listen to the whole thing. He's trolling and that's about it.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1326227756263280641?s=20
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The real fun begins if/when Trump says he is going to run in 2024. Several of those Senate Republicans and others supporting him now want to run in 2024.
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Yeah. People are probably freaking out about Barr's memo more than they need to. The timing is sketchy, but he's basically telling US Attorneys to investigate credible claims that would alter the result of the election, and ignore the rest ... which is what they should be doing.
The vote gap is all these states right now is such that even if fraud is discovered, it's hard to imagine it being on such a scale that it would change tens of thousands of votes.
It's a bigger deal than that. What he did violates official DOJ policy that has been extremely long-lived.
It is tantamount to saying you can now charge the president with crimes.
Historically, official policy dictates that you pursue all credible allegations of election fraud, but only after the election is certified to avoid any semblance of political influence/impropriety. He has thrown that out the window and essentially said they should investigate and possibly prosecute, now, before certification, and for political reasons.
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It's a bigger deal than that. What he did violates official DOJ policy that has been extremely long-lived.
It is tantamount to saying you can now charge the president with crimes.
Historically, official policy dictates that you pursue all credible allegations of election fraud, but only after the election is certified to avoid any semblance of political influence/impropriety. He has thrown that out the window and essentially said they should investigate and possibly prosecute, now, before certification, and for political reasons.
So, what you're saying is that the timing is sketchy?
Nothing he said suggested prosecuting for political reasons.
Look, I detest Bill Barr. He's a political hack with the ethics of a phone scammer. But other than the timing, there's nothing untoward or inappropriate about this. And that timing was just a matter of tradition, not law.
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A lot of what Trump and his minions are doing and saying is inappropriate for a number of reasons, but he isn't going to be seizing power and remaining as President. The election will be certified and the transition will happen.
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So, what you're saying is that the timing is sketchy?
Nothing he said suggested prosecuting for political reasons.
Look, I detest Bill Barr. He's a political hack with the ethics of a phone scammer. But other than the timing, there's nothing untoward or inappropriate about this. And that timing was just a matter of tradition, not law.
There is an official policy that has been followed forever saying, no investigations on election fraud should commence until after the election has been certified.
The timing isn't the sketchy aspect. It is the fact that he entirely disregarded official policy, because the Trump WH wanted to leverage investigations to support their court cases.
There is a reason the head of the division immediately stepped down. This was a gross disregard for DOJ policy, and etiquette.
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There is an official policy that has been followed forever saying, no investigations on election fraud should commence until after the election has been certified.
The timing isn't the sketchy aspect. It is the fact that he entirely disregarded official policy, because the Trump WH wanted to leverage investigations to support their court cases.
There is a reason the head of the division immediately stepped down. This was a gross disregard for DOJ policy, and etiquette.
If by forever, you mean the 1980s, then yes, the policy has been around forever.
Yes, Barr is trampling upon policy and etiquette. I do not care. It will have no meaningful impact on the outcome, which is what matters. In fact, his insistence on the investigation of only credible claims that would change the outcome is a good thing because there are no credible claims that would change the outcome. He's giving his prosecutors clear authority to tune out the noise and the inconsequential. Ignoring that while getting angry over etiquette is not seeing the forest for the trees.
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https://twitter.com/RepTedDeutch/status/1326242767966789638?s=20
Pretty powerful statement from a Republican.
"Pompeo notes the world is watching.
It’s true.
And what they are seeing is a careless, foolish, and anti-democratic partisan barb from the Secretary of State that jeopardizes our election integrity."
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Listen to the whole thing. He's trolling and that's about it.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1326227756263280641?s=20
You will be a denier forever.
His statement, whether trolling or not, is meant to de-legitimize Joe Biden and fire up his fools. Posts like yours feed into that.
Pompeo, Barr and Trump are putting out feelers for their crazies to see if they are down for a coup.
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So now the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence has been fired as well and replaced with another of Nunes' pals. Gee, why what possible reason might Trump have for replacing key people in the intelligence community?
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https://twitter.com/RepTedDeutch/status/1326242767966789638?s=20
Pretty powerful statement from a Republican.
"Pompeo notes the world is watching.
It’s true.
And what they are seeing is a careless, foolish, and anti-democratic partisan barb from the Secretary of State that jeopardizes our election integrity."
Good for him. It is unfortunate that precious few Republicans are willing to speak out.
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The real fun begins if/when Trump says he is going to run in 2024. Several of those Senate Republicans and others supporting him now want to run in 2024.
One reason (perhaps even bigger than the GA senate races) that most Republicans are still totally bending the knee to Commodus is 2024. Several want to run for president and will want his blessing if he decides not to run, and just about all of them will want to remain in Congress or governorships or whatever, and again will want his support.
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Economic populism. Whichever political party embraces those ideas is set to win big for a long time.
Look at conservative florida raising the minimum wage.
Look at the fox news exit polls.
Look at the fact that left Dems and those who supported universal healthcare did better, even in swing districts, compared to the centrist/corporate/blue dog Dems.
The GOP won't latch on because those policies aren't trickle down.
The Dems are in the perfect position to embrace them,but they won't because the corporatist neolibs hold all the power.
In that scenario, the GOP will continue to win for a while at all levels.
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You will be a denier forever.
His statement, whether trolling or not, is meant to de-legitimize Joe Biden and fire up his fools. Posts like yours feed into that.
Pompeo, Barr and Trump are putting out feelers for their crazies to see if they are down for a coup.
No, my Marquette education taught me to not simply take things out of context and not to echo talking points without investigating further. Apparently yours did not.
He clearly states there is a process and there will be a successful transition no matter who is in place. Is this great? No obviously not. It would be better for the country from Trump to concede and step aside.
But I am not going to feed into the frenzy that this is more than what it is. Seriously, "down for a coup?" Go out and get a breath of fresh air. Maybe stay off the internet for awhile, because apparently you are ramping yourself for something that isn't even remotely close to what's happening here.
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You will be a denier forever.
His statement, whether trolling or not, is meant to de-legitimize Joe Biden and fire up his fools. Posts like yours feed into that.
Pompeo, Barr and Trump are putting out feelers for their crazies to see if they are down for a coup.
Did you watch the entire exchange, or just the one line? It's clear from the entirety of his remarks he was trying to make a joke. A wholly unfunny, inappropriate and ill-conceived joke, but Kansan evangelicals probably aren't known for their senses of humor.
I thought only Q disciples believed Trump and his cronies were sending secret messages.
If you want to argue that Trump, Pompeo, etc., are playing a disgusting and dangerous game, I'm with you. If you think they're sending secret messages - during press conferences! - about an impending coup, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
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This. Exactly.
https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1326220453921361920?s=20
Elie Mystal
@ElieNYC
·
3h
Again, this is a grift disguised as a coup masquerading as a lawsuit.
Anyone who thinks this is some sort of grand plot to stage some sort of coup hasn't been paying attention to Trump ever. He isn't a grand strategist. He's never been one. He's a grifter who needs cash and uses the courts to bully people around.
This is his MO.
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One reason (perhaps even bigger than the GA senate races) that most Republicans are still totally bending the knee to Commodus is 2024. Several want to run for president and will want his blessing if he decides not to run, and just about all of them will want to remain in Congress or governorships or whatever, and again will want his support.
Yep. Right now, any Republican with aspirations for a Senate seat or beyond has to appease the base, and right now appeasing the base means showing fealty to their lord and savior. That's all this is. They don't believe there was election fraud any more than the rest of us.
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Did you watch the entire exchange, or just the one line? It's clear from the entirety of his remarks he was trying to make a joke. A wholly unfunny, inappropriate and ill-conceived joke, but Kansan evangelicals probably aren't know for their senses of humor.
I thought only Q disciples believed Trump and his cronies were sending secret messages.
If you want to argue that Trump, Pompeo, etc., are playing a disgusting and dangerous game, I'm with you. If you think they're sending secret messages - and press conferences! - about an impending coup, we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I always respect your opinions. You are not a flamethrower (as I try to be on occasion). We just disagree here. In a vacuum, your points would be spot on. But living in the current environment, Pompeo’s comments are dangerous as one more instance of mocking and disputing the election outcome as it feeds into the republican narrative.
We have tens of millions of people in this country refusing to believe the election results. Statements like Pompeo’s simply foment more unrest.
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Biden's lead in Pennsylvania is now 49,598 and counting.
Biden's Georgia lead is 12,655.
NYC still has to count over 713k votes. Half a dozen big urban Biden area voters have more too add. Biden is going to increase his popular vote by 7 figures.
Arizona updates tonight.
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We have tens of millions of people in this country refusing to believe the election results. Statements like Pompeo’s simply foment more unrest.
Plenty of Nixon supporters insisted Richard Daley swiped the election for Kennedy in 1960.
Lots of people still believe Al Gore was elected president in 2000.
Many Clinton supporters believe Donald Trump stole the 2016 election.
The losing side not accepting election results is nothing new in this country.
I agree that it's scarier this time because too many people on the losing side today have AR-15s and have expressed a willingness to use them, and that's why this feels more dangerous. But I'm not losing sleep thinking about Donald Trump somehow convincing the U.S. military and its generals - who hate him, by the way - to orchestrate a coup.
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Plenty of Nixon supporters insisted Richard Daley swiped the election for Kennedy in 1960.
Lots of people still believe Al Gore was elected president in 2000.
Many Clinton supporters believe Donald Trump stole the 2016 election.
The losing side not accepting election results is nothing new in this country.
I agree that it's scarier this time because too many people on the losing side today have AR-15s and have expressed a willingness to use them, and that's why this feels more dangerous. But I'm not losing sleep thinking about Donald Trump somehow convincing the U.S. military and its generals - who hate him, by the way - to orchestrate a coup.
Nor the courts.
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70 days left.
These are the types of things that concern some people and raise eyebrows:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693
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Voting no matta in Wisconsin:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/11/10/legislator-pushes-illegal-election-of-trump/
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Voting no matta in Wisconsin:
https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2020/11/10/legislator-pushes-illegal-election-of-trump/
I'll take lawmakers who don't understand the law for $1,000, Alex.
Ugh ... Sanfellipo went to Marquette. Embarrassing.
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70 days left.
These are the types of things that concern some people and raise eyebrows:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/10/pentagon-top-policy-official-resigns-435693
Unfortunately, the very real concern for our nation's well-being will extendwell after Jan. 20, 2021.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-possible-security-risk/2020/11/09/f19c853e-229e-11eb-952e-0c475972cfc0_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2ca7611%2F5faac9839d2fda0efb62dc31%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F8%2F64%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
As president, Donald Trump selectively revealed highly classified information to attack his adversaries, gain political advantage and to impress or intimidate foreign governments, in some cases jeopardizing U.S. intelligence capabilities. As an ex-president, there’s every reason to worry he will do the same, thus posing a unique national security dilemma for the Biden administration, current and former officials and analysts said.
All presidents exit the office with valuable national secrets in their heads, including the procedures for launching nuclear weapons, intelligence-gathering capabilities — including assets deep inside foreign governments — and the development of new and advanced weapon systems.
But no new president has ever had to fear that his predecessor might expose the nation’s secrets as President-elect Joe Biden must with Trump, current and former officials said. Not only does Trump have a history of disclosures, he checks the boxes of a classic counterintelligence risk: He is deeply in debt and angry at the U.S. government, particularly what he describes as the “deep state” conspiracy that he believes tried to stop him from winning the White House in 2016 and what he falsely claims is an illegal effort to rob him of reelection.
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I agree that it's scarier this time because too many people on the losing side today have AR-15s and have expressed a willingness to use them, and that's why this feels more dangerous. But I'm not losing sleep thinking about Donald Trump somehow convincing the U.S. military and its generals - who hate him, by the way - to orchestrate a coup.
Nor am I. But I also believe that just because something has never happened before doesn't mean it never will - no matter that the odds of it are low..
However many former military, national security, and FBI experts have game-planned for such an occurrence because of the uncertainty of what trump may do. Unlike me, these are men and women who live in this (national security) world.
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You don’t say...
https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/1326306104582811649
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Shocking.
The Washington Post @washingtonpost
Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say wapo.st/3kntaGu
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Shocking.
The Washington Post @washingtonpost
Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say wapo.st/3kntaGu
Disgruntled employee, made the whole thing up, was getting lots of Go Fund Me $$$. $130k.
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81 of 159, Georgia Counties have now been certified, over half.
Biden leads by 12,292 votes.
12,659. Sixty counties left.
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https://twitter.com/RepTedDeutch/status/1326242767966789638?s=20
Pretty powerful statement from a Republican.
"Pompeo notes the world is watching.
It’s true.
And what they are seeing is a careless, foolish, and anti-democratic partisan barb from the Secretary of State that jeopardizes our election integrity."
Ted's a life long democrat. No republican is saying anything of the sort.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Deutch
Theodore Eliot Deutch (/ˈdɔɪtʃ/; born May 7, 1966) is an American politician serving as the U.S. Representative for Florida's 22nd congressional district since 2017. A member of the Democratic Party, he first entered Congress in 2010 after a special election following the resignation of Robert Wexler. Deutch represented Florida's 19th congressional district until 2013 and Florida's 21st congressional district from 2013 to 2017.
His district currently includes much of the northern part of Broward County and southern part of Palm Beach County in South Florida. A lawyer by occupation, he has been Chair of the House Ethics Committee since 2019, a position in which he succeeded Susan Brooks. Prior to his congressional tenue, he served as the Florida State Senator from the 30th district from 2006 to 2010.
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Disgruntled employee, made the whole thing up, was getting lots of Go Fund Me $$$. $130k.
Nothing suspicious there…
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12,659. Sixty counties left.
14,148 lead for Biden in Georgia.
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Joe Biden has now surpassed 10 million votes in the state of California. It is the first time any candidate has ever received 10 million votes from one state in a Presidential Election.
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Pennsylvania Secretary of State reports just 10k votes arrived between November 3rd and 6th. Biden is approaching a 50k lead in Pennsylvania.
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@Phil_Mattingly: new Maricopa ballots reported:
Biden: 2,213 votes (41.83%)
Trump: 2,982 votes (56.36%)
Biden lead in Arizona: 12,813
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Ted's a life long democrat. No republican is saying anything of the sort.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Deutch
Theodore Eliot Deutch (/ˈdɔɪtʃ/; born May 7, 1966) is an American politician serving as the U.S. Representative for Florida's 22nd congressional district since 2017. A member of the Democratic Party, he first entered Congress in 2010 after a special election following the resignation of Robert Wexler. Deutch represented Florida's 19th congressional district until 2013 and Florida's 21st congressional district from 2013 to 2017.
His district currently includes much of the northern part of Broward County and southern part of Palm Beach County in South Florida. A lawyer by occupation, he has been Chair of the House Ethics Committee since 2019, a position in which he succeeded Susan Brooks. Prior to his congressional tenue, he served as the Florida State Senator from the 30th district from 2006 to 2010.
Well don't I feel stupid now. Thank you for the correction.
I swear I saw (R) somewhere, but these days I'm drowning in projects an could easily manifest that R, because I want to see a republican speak up.
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@Phil_Mattingly: new Maricopa ballots reported:
Biden: 2,213 votes (41.83%)
Trump: 2,982 votes (56.36%)
Biden lead in Arizona: 12,813
Although that makes a dent, I believe the math was saying he needed over 60% of all votes moving forward. So each batch under 60% means he is falling further behind the pace. Regardless, that is going to be a close election.
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Although that makes a dent, I believe the math was saying he needed over 60% of all votes moving forward. So each batch under 60% means he is falling further behind the pace. Regardless, that is going to be a close election.
This is what's remaining in AZ:
The percentage he needs keeps growing with every miss. It is more like 65% now. And many of the remaining ballots are in Pima County, which are not likely to net what he needs.
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Well don't I feel stupid now. Thank you for the correction.
I swear I saw (R) somewhere, but these days I'm drowning in projects an could easily manifest that R, because I want to see a republican speak up.
Probably saw Rep. Duetch and just translated the rep into republican instead of representative. I did until I saw the name and knew he was a D.
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This is alarming:
https://twitter.com/AVindman/status/1326282555952418816?s=19
One take on it:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-will-leave-the-question-is-how-much-damage-hell-do-to-national-security-before-then/2020/11/10/551d31a4-239d-11eb-a688-5298ad5d580a_story.html#click=https://t.co/NjxclECD0T
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@emilymbadger: The Times called the offices of every Secretary of State in the country. None reported serious irregularities or fraud.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html?referringSource=articleShare
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Probably saw Rep. Duetch and just translated the rep into republican instead of representative. I did until I saw the name and knew he was a D.
That was my guess, the number of times I've read "Rep <whoever>" and immediately assumed it meant republican before realizing my mistake. Well..it's more often than I'd like to admit.
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Probably saw Rep. Duetch and just translated the rep into republican instead of representative. I did until I saw the name and knew he was a D.
That was my guess, the number of times I've read "Rep <whoever>" and immediately assumed it meant republican before realizing my mistake. Well..it's more often than I'd like to admit.
That's likely the case. Meh, not even the dumbest thing I've done this afternoon.
I'll have to try and be bester in the future
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That's likely the case. Meh, not even the dumbest thing I've done this afternoon.
I'll have to try and be bester in the future
You probably should have just denied the mistake and claimed you got it right the first time, even though there is written documentation to the contrary.
I’ve heard that kind of refusal to admit a mistake shows how smart you are.
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@AmyEGardner: Just in: Pennsylvania Secretary of State reports just 10k ballots came in between Nov. 3 and Nov. 6. Biden wins Pennsylvania without those votes.
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One of the three people in charge of counting the vote in Philadelphia- the Republican - told 60 Minutes that he has received death threats for having the temerity to count legal votes by registered voters. He is disgusted by Trump’s rhetoric, lies and fearmongering, and worries about the potential violence it will cause.
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Pennsylvania.
Judge: I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?
Trump lawyer: To my knowledge, no.
https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1326345253360635904?s=19
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Pennsylvania.
Judge: I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?
Trump lawyer: To my knowledge, no.
https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1326345253360635904?s=19
So I read the entire exchange. It was fascinating. It had to do with legislative intent when it came to mail in ballots and whether or not filling in someone's address was a legal requirement or an "extra" that the Secretary of State included to make the tracking easier.
IOW, the Republicans want the 592 tossed out if they didn't fill in their address.
The Secretary of State countered that it wasn't necessary, and that they track all ballots with unique bar codes anyway that they scan and link to unique name and address. And that this prevents someone from voting multiple times.
Voting systems have way more checks and balances then people realize. That is why "voter fraud" has never really been anything but a distraction. And it is why this Trump lawsuits are going nowhere and why Biden will be our next President. And the longer this goes on, the more and more foolish the President and his allies look.
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Reuters poll:
Biden won - 79 percent
Trump won - 3 percent
Race still undecided - 13 percent
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/nearly-80-of-americans-say-biden-won-white-house-ignoring-trumps-refusal-to-concede-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN27Q3ED
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Here is a summary by the noted liberal publication "National Review."
https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/where-the-post-election-lawsuits-stand/
To summarize: There is no credible evidence of voter fraud, and the late breaking votes are mostly helping Republican down-ballot candidates anyway.
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Reuters poll:
Biden won - 79 percent
Trump won - 3 percent
Race still undecided - 13 percent
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/nearly-80-of-americans-say-biden-won-white-house-ignoring-trumps-refusal-to-concede-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN27Q3ED
Are we really going back to quoting polls this quick?
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https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1326541925227261952?s=20
This is the biggest black mark against the voter fraud idea. Republicans down ballot are OUTPERFORMING Trump everywhere. I mean, the Democrats commitment a massive fraud, but only at the Presidential level?
I have a co-worker who is a lifelong Republican, even hosting fundraisers for local Republican candidates in her home. She voted for Biden because "Trump is an pretty boy who gives me flashbacks growing up with my drunk father." But she voted for every other Republican on the ballot.
Anecdotal I know, but I doubt she is the only one.
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Every day that passes that Congressional Republicans enable this fiasco the more significant damage it does to American democracy. They are simply choosing party and power over country and it's disgusting.
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Are we really going back to quoting polls this quick?
We really are.
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https://twitter.com/ForecasterEnten/status/1326541925227261952?s=20
This is the biggest black mark against the voter fraud idea. Republicans down ballot are OUTPERFORMING Trump everywhere. I mean, the Democrats commitment a massive fraud, but only at the Presidential level?
Amazingly, I hadn't even considered this point yet. If you're going to send in fraudulent ballots for Biden, why wouldn't you have those ballots vote for democratic congresspeople?
Unless....Rebublicans are the ones committing voter fraud and the GOP establishment wanted Trump out
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/88907f4bb5ed29a9360bcf8d6d26e408/tenor.gif?itemid=15373005)
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Voted for Biden but voted for other non-democrat everyone else, not necessarily Republican. Vote on the issues not the party.
Cut Trump loose. Waste time and losing face standing up for him.
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Every day that passes that Congressional Republicans enable this fiasco the more significant damage it does to American democracy.
Like purging Pentagon leadership? This is our national security that is being played with to satisfy the ego of a mad man.
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Like purging Pentagon leadership? This is our national security that is being played with to satisfy the ego of a mad man.
Yep and undermining confidence in elections. Trump is a national security risk right now. If these types of things were happening in another country how do you think Republicans would react? The hypocrisy is astounding.
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Amazingly, I hadn't even considered this point yet. If you're going to send in fraudulent ballots for Biden, why wouldn't you have those ballots vote for democratic congresspeople?
Unless....Rebublicans are the ones committing voter fraud and the GOP establishment wanted Trump out
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/88907f4bb5ed29a9360bcf8d6d26e408/tenor.gif?itemid=15373005)
Right. If you are going to go through the effort to commit massive voter fraud in Georgia, why wouldn't you also elect the two Democratic Senate candidates?
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Georgia Secretary of State said this morning that Georgia will do full hand recounts.
Biden leads by 14,112. There are 62 counties remaining to be certified.
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Like purging Pentagon leadership? This is our national security that is being played with to satisfy the ego of a mad man.
I have a short memory, how long after the election did many Democratic leaders accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians to steal the election? As a moderate democrat who deals with quite a few Republicans on a daily basis, I have not met one that actually thinks there was voter fraud. Granted thats anecdotal evidence, but I really think its is a small amount of people who actually think voter fraud occurred.
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I have a short memory, how long after the election did many Democratic leaders accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians to steal the election? As a moderate democrat who deals with quite a few Republicans on a daily basis, I have not met one that actually thinks there was voter fraud. Granted thats anecdotal evidence, but I really think its is a small amount of people who actually think voter fraud occurred.
Interesting, I have a lot of friends and some family in deep red parts of the state. They are convinced that there was massive voter fraud, and even the simple idea of mail-in ballots was proof enough of voter fraud.
All believe the election was stolen from Trump, and he actually won by several million votes.
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I have a short memory, how long after the election did many Democratic leaders accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians to steal the election? As a moderate democrat who deals with quite a few Republicans on a daily basis, I have not met one that actually thinks there was voter fraud. Granted thats anecdotal evidence, but I really think its is a small amount of people who actually think voter fraud occurred.
I would guess that most Marquette graduates will encounter very few people who believe this in our day to day lives. Then again only 35% of the country has a min of a bachelors degree. So I don’t know that we are a great sample.
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I have a short memory, how long after the election did many Democratic leaders accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians to steal the election? As a moderate democrat who deals with quite a few Republicans on a daily basis, I have not met one that actually thinks there was voter fraud. Granted thats anecdotal evidence, but I really think its is a small amount of people who actually think voter fraud occurred.
To be fair, there was at the time substantial evidence - much of which has since been verified by a Republican-controlled Senate - of ties between high-ranking members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence. These allegations were not without reason, nor is there any doubt the Trump campaign talked with Putin reps during the election. The only thing in doubt is the level of coordination between the two sides.
This is contrary to the allegations of widespread voter fraud, for which there is zero evidence.
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I have a short memory, how long after the election did many Democratic leaders accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians to steal the election? As a moderate democrat who deals with quite a few Republicans on a daily basis, I have not met one that actually thinks there was voter fraud. Granted thats anecdotal evidence, but I really think its is a small amount of people who actually think voter fraud occurred.
After four years of Democrats yelling RUSSIA about the 2016 election, it is not possible for Trump to undermine this or any election. That credibility was wrecked four years ago.
But I do love how the collective lobotomy here has forgotten the absolute damage that inflicted.
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To be fair, there was at the time substantial evidence - much of which has since been verified by a Republican-controlled Senate - of ties between high-ranking members of the Trump campaign and Russian intelligence. These allegations were not without reason, nor is there any doubt the Trump campaign talked with Putin reps during the election. The only thing in doubt is the level of coordination between the two sides.
This is contrary to the allegations of widespread voter fraud, for which there is zero evidence.
Tampering was not proven or was it the conclusion of the report. Above is from the fever swamps of the unhinged.
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Georgia Secretary of State said this morning that Georgia will do full hand recounts.
Biden leads by 14,112. There are 62 counties remaining to be certified.
Shoot,
Will they be recounting the senate races? And if the recount puts Perdue over 50%, does that cancel the run-off and give him the election?
Note this is far different than trying to overtake an opponent like Trump has to do. In the Senate race if enough third-party and write-in votes are deemed invalid, that raises Perdue's %. As of the last count, Perdue has 49.72% of the vote. Needs 50.00% + 1 to avoid a run-off.
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Heise hasn't been getting as many clicks as he's been hoping for recently, I see.
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After four years of Democrats yelling RUSSIA about the 2016 election, it is not possible for Trump to undermine this or any election. That credibility was wrecked four years ago.
But I do love how the collective lobotomy here has forgotten the absolute damage that inflicted.
That's because you are (per usual) shifting goalposts when it suits your narrative to make yourself look like the smartest man in the room.
Because it doesn't take more than a cursory look to show that the two situations are being treated very differently.
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After four years of Democrats yelling RUSSIA about the 2016 election, it is not possible for Trump to undermine this or any election. That credibility was wrecked four years ago.
But I do love how the collective lobotomy here has forgotten the absolute damage that inflicted.
Wasn't the last report stating that there was tampering? But no evidence/not enough that trump specifically colluded? Seems like that was worth investing.
Filing legal challenges claiming you weren't able to have GOP reps in the room and then saying "we had a nonzero number" in there is comical and grasping at straws.
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That's because you are (per usual) shifting goalposts when it suits your narrative to make yourself look like the smartest man in the room.
Because it doesn't take more than a cursory look to show that the two situations are being treated very differently.
Actually, it is not, but whatever it takes to keep you thinking you're morally superior.
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Shoot,
Will they be recounting the senate races? And if the recount puts Perdue over 50%, does that cancel the run-off and give him the election?
Note this is far different than trying to overtake an opponent like Trump has to do. In the Senate race if enough third-party and write-in votes are deemed invalid, that raises Perdue's %. As of the last count, Perdue has 49.72% of the vote. Needs 50.00% + 1 to avoid a run-off.
No.
Georgia's other non Senate run off races will move from Dec 1 to January 5th with the others.
Biden leads Georgia by over 14k and that could grow in small numbers as the final 62 counties are certified. Typically recounts may affect a few votes here and there, a few hundred, but certainly not 14,000 nor anywhere close to that. The margin of victory is large for a hand recount.
So the two Senate run off races will take place on January 5th. And Biden will be declared the winner of Georgia after certification, audit, and recount are complete of the recent Presidential Election.
Biden will finish with 306 Electoral Votes.
Voting Registration deadline for January 5th run off races is December 7th. Early voting for it begins December 14th. 17 year olds turning 18 by January 5th may vote. Absentee requests must be made by November 18th, and can be done here:
https://ballotrequest.sos.ga.gov/
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No.
Georgia's other non Senate run off races will move from Dec 1 to January 5th with the others.
Biden leads Georgia by over 14k and that could grow in small numbers as the final 62 counties are certified. Typically recounts may affect a few votes here and there, a few hundred, but certainly not 14,000 nor anywhere close to that. The margin of victory is large for a hand recount.
So the two Senate run off races will take place on January 5th. And Biden will be declared the winner of Georgia after certification, audit, and recount are complete of the recent Presidential Election.
Biden will finish with 306 Electoral Votes.
Voting Registration deadline for January 5th run off races is December 7th. Early voting for it begins December 14th. 17 year olds turning 18 by January 5th may vote. Absentee requests must be made by November 18th, and can be done here:
https://ballotrequest.sos.ga.gov/
Can Perdue request a recount of his race?
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Wasn't the last report stating that there was tampering? But no evidence/not enough that trump specifically colluded? Seems like that was worth investing.
Filing legal challenges claiming you weren't able to have GOP reps in the room and then saying "we had a nonzero number" in there is comical and grasping at straws.
Mueller did a surprisingly good job investigating despite being hand-picked as a republican sycophant. Because of his investigation a bunch of people went to jail over conspiring with Russia to interfere in the 2016 presidential election including Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, George Papadopoulos, and 6 other conspirators. Guys like Michael Flynn and Rick Gates agreed to turn state's witness after being caught and charged with lying during the investigation.
"Individual-1" (Trump) will be charged after he's no longer president.
The "party of law and order" needs to do some soul searching to find out what went wrong along the way.
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Mueller did a surprisingly good job investigating despite being hand-picked as a republican sycophant. Because of his investigation a bunch of people went to jail over conspiring with Russia to interfere in the 2016 presidential election including Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, George Papadopoulos, and 6 other conspirators. Guys like Michael Flynn and Rick Gates agreed to turn state's witness after being caught and charged with lying during the investigation.
"Individual-1" (Trump) will be charged after he's no longer president.
The "party of law and order" needs to do some soul searching to find out what went wrong along the way.
Which ones of these went to jail for conspiring with Russia ?
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Right. If you are going to go through the effort to commit massive voter fraud in Georgia, why wouldn't you also elect the two Democratic Senate candidates?
Makes me wonder about the strategy of the GA Republican Senator candidates doubling down on the fraud narrative. Will they lose those voters who voted for them, but against Trump by following this ridiculousness.
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Tampering was not proven or was it the conclusion of the report. Above is from the fever swamps of the unhinged.
Tampering was proven and it was in the conclusion of the report. You're either trolling or delusional (or both).
Read it:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
"Fever swamps of the unhinged" = Republican Senate report. Rubio, Cornyn, Cotton, etc. are all part of the Deep State!
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Mueller did a surprisingly good job investigating despite being hand-picked as a republican sycophant. Because of his investigation a bunch of people went to jail over conspiring with Russia to interfere in the 2016 presidential election including Michael Cohen, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort, Konstantin Kilimnik, George Papadopoulos, and 6 other conspirators. Guys like Michael Flynn and Rick Gates agreed to turn state's witness after being caught and charged with lying during the investigation.
"Individual-1" (Trump) will be charged after he's no longer president.
The "party of law and order" needs to do some soul searching to find out what went wrong along the way.
Let me simply restate this ....
Without evidence, the Democrats accused the Russians of tempering with the 2016 election. And exhaustive investigation took place and it did not produce any evidence the Russians affected the outcome of the election. Along the way, some were charged with process crimes that also did not alter the outcome of the 2016 election.
The result was the credibility of US election process was destroyed.
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Tampering was proven and it was in the conclusion of the report. You're either trolling or delusional (or both).
Read it:
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf
"Fever swamps of the unhinged" = Republican Senate report. Rubio, Cornyn, Cotton, etc. are all part of the Deep State!
So you think Hillary won in 2016?
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Actually, it is not, but whatever it takes to keep you thinking you're morally superior.
Well, I never was on the "Russia stole the election" narrative however.
But compare and contrast the ACTIONS from the losing party's leadership today compared to four years ago.
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So you think Hillary won in 2016?
Nope.
Do you think the Senate Republicans authored a phony 966-page report to propagate an anti-Trump hoax?
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Well, I never was on the "Russia stole the election" narrative however.
But compare and contrast the ACTIONS from the losing party's leadership today compared to four years ago.
FIFY
I prefer to compare and contrast the ACTIONS from the losing party's leadership today compared to four twenty years ago.
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Can Perdue request a recount of his race?
In Georgia, a losing candidate may request a recount if they are within 0.5% of winner.
All ballots will be recounted both electronically, as well as by hand, in time for Georgia to be certified.(lots of overtime hours continue there)
Georgia has had a more transparent process than most states. The Republican Secretary of State donated to Trump in both 2016, and, 2020. The hand recount is seen as a way of appeasing some of these people. As you may be aware, the Republicans in charge of Georgia voting have received baseless allegations from both Republican Georgia Senate Candidates and some others. Lots of back and forth between the two groups.
All of this is tactical strategy to fire up a Trump base set of voters for January 5th turnout. Trump's interests are of course are only about Trump, which are mainly financial at this point for him.
So, again, Biden will win Georgia, and finish with a landslide 306 Electoral Votes and millions and millions of margin in the popular vote. And, Georgia will have its two close Senate Run off Elections January 5th, with all of the various dates I have already provided.
👍
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Nope.
Do you think the Senate Republicans authored a phony 966-page report to propagate an anti-Trump hoax?
I do think 2016/Russia, combined with Gore in 2000 did far more to destroy the credibility of the US election process than what Trump is doing today, which is exercising his right to file a few lawsuits.
2000 and 2016 set the standard. Trump is just following it.
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I do think 2016/Russia, combined with Gore in 2000 did far more to destroy the credibility of the US election process than what Trump is doing today, which is exercising his right to file a few lawsuits.
2000 and 2016 set the standard. Trump is just following it.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to write this off as a filing a few lawsuits. I think all the tweets and comments on the fraud of mail-in ballots and stealing an election over the past year are pretty damaging.
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I do think 2016/Russia, combined with Gore in 2000 did far more to destroy the credibility of the US election process than what Trump is doing today, which is exercising his right to file a few lawsuits.
2000 and 2016 set the standard. Trump is just following it.
Quite the dodge. ACB would be proud.
But by evading the question you answered the question.
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Don't give in to whataboutism. It's how people try to get you off the topic at hand, and next thing you know you're arguing about something completely different instead.
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The emperor has been saying this election would be a rigged "fraud" for months. Never offered a shred of evidence. And obviously, since the election ended, he has gone nuclear with his claims, still offering not a single shred of evidence.
Those in charge of vote-counting in many states, including some Republicans, are getting death threats due to Commodus' deranged, delusional, traitorous rants.
So yes, this already is far worse than anything election-related that has happened in my lifetime, including 2000 and 2016.
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Well this is about to get locked. AZ and GA for sure going to recount. Is WI as well?
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I think it’s a bit disingenuous to write this off as a filing a few lawsuits. I think all the tweets and comments on the fraud of mail-in ballots and stealing an election over the past year are pretty damaging.
Compared to allegations repeated for years and years that Russia stole and election?
Here is the reality.
Election integrity if about one thing ... if your guy wins.
The survey, conducted from Oct. 13-20, shows 43% of Biden supporters would not accept a Trump victory
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll/four-in-ten-supporters-of-biden-trump-would-not-accept-election-defeat-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN27A0BB
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From Washington Post:
Six states where President Trump has threatened to challenge his defeat continued their march toward declaring certified election results in the coming weeks, as his advisers privately acknowledged that President-elect Joe Biden’s official victory is less a question of “if” than “when.”
Trump began the day tweeting about “BALLOT COUNTING ABUSE” as he and his allies touted unproven claims that fraud had tainted the election in Arizona, Georgia, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Vice President Pence gave a presentation to Republican senators on Capitol Hill about new litigation expected in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Georgia — imploring them to stick with the president, according to several Republicans in the room.
But even some of the president’s most publicly pugilistic aides, including White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and informal adviser Corey Lewandowski, have said privately that they are concerned about the lawsuits’ chances for success unless more evidence surfaces, according to people familiar with their views.
Trump met with advisers again Tuesday afternoon to discuss whether there is a path forward, said a person with knowledge of the discussions, who, like others interviewed for this report, spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. The person said Trump plans to keep fighting but understands it is going to be difficult. “He is all over the place. It changes from hour to hour,” the person said.
In the states, Democratic and some Republican officials said they have seen no evidence of fraud on a scale sufficient to overturn the results. “There is no evidence of widespread voter fraud,” one GOP official in Georgia said.
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The emperor has been saying this election would be a rigged "fraud" for months. Never offered a shred of evidence. And obviously, since the election ended, he has gone nuclear with his claims, still offering not a single shred of evidence.
Those in charge of vote-counting in many states, including some Republicans, are getting death threats due to Commodus' deranged, delusional, traitorous rants.
So yes, this already is far worse than anything election-related that has happened in my lifetime, including 2000 and 2016.
It's because you want to see it that way. Reality is this is what the losing side does.
Hillary Clinton dismissed President Trump as an “illegitimate president” and suggested that “he knows” that he stole the 2016 presidential election in a CBS News interview to be aired Sunday.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-trump-is-an-illegitimate-president/2019/09/26/29195d5a-e099-11e9-b199-f638bf2c340f_story.html
And don't forget Gore took 36 days to concede.
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FIFY
I prefer to compare and contrast the ACTIONS from the losing party's leadership today compared to four twenty years ago.
Of course you would. Anything to shift goalposts to make whatever point you are trying to make. "Well, let's talk about 2016 and Russia. Oh wait! Nevermind. Let's talk about 20 years ago instead."
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Is she as terrible as Trump? She been praised in previous pages here.
Stacey Abrams Still Claims Election ‘Stolen From the People of Georgia’
https://am970theanswer.com/content/national-news/stacey-abrams-still-claims-election-stolen-from-the-people-of-georgia
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Let me simply restate this ....
Without evidence, the Democrats accused the Russians of tempering with the 2016 election. And exhaustive investigation took place and it did not produce any evidence the Russians affected the outcome of the election. Along the way, some were charged with process crimes that also did not alter the outcome of the 2016 election.
The result was the credibility of US election process was destroyed.
You simply remain a liar.
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Why GOP superlawyer Ben Ginsberg is bucking his party and blasting Trump’s baseless election claims ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-gop-superlawyer-ben-ginsberg-is-bucking-his-party-and-blasting-trumps-baseless-election-claims/2020/11/10/f2aa7056-236d-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2cad4ed%2F5fac17fe9d2fda0efb63dd65%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F17%2F70%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
In “Recount,” the made-for-television film version of the 2000 presidential election standoff that gripped the nation, Republican superlawyer Ben Ginsberg is portrayed as a bare-knuckled brawler with a jaded view of his adversaries.
“I’ve done over 25 recounts, and it never ceases to amaze me the extent that Democrats will lie, cheat and steal to win an election,” Ginsberg’s character says.
While Ginsberg says he doesn’t recall uttering those exact words in real life, he has made plenty of enemies among Democrats for his tactics over the years. In addition to his role in George W. Bush’s 2000 victory, he advised a group that Democrats say falsely accused their 2004 nominee, John F. Kerry, a decorated Vietnam veteran, of lying about his military record and was widely seen as a decisive factor in Bush’s reelection victory.
Today, with tension rising over the results of a presidential election, Ginsberg is once again on the front lines but playing an unfamiliar role: Democratic ally.
From newspaper op-eds to network TV interviews, Ginsberg, recently retired from his work for the law firm that has represented President Trump’s campaigns, has denounced the baseless claims by Trump and his GOP allies that last week’s election was rigged and rife with fraud.
“For the president of the United States, the leader of the free world and head of the Republican Party, to make completely unsubstantiated charges about our elections being rigged is not right,” he said in an interview.
Whereas Ginsberg said the 2000 recount was a legitimate legal issue — a recount in a single state with the two candidates separated by just 537 votes — he said the Trump campaign has no legal basis to dispute the victory by President-elect Joe Biden.
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Of course you would. Anything to shift goalposts to make whatever point you are trying to make. "Well, let's talk about 2016 and Russia. Oh wait! Nevermind. Let's talk about 20 years ago instead."
What you are seeing happening is how every close election works. It was the case in 2000, 2016, and 2020 ... it will likely be the case in 2024, regardless of who wins.
The damage has long ago been done. This is the new standard. But your outrage is only because your guy won. If the results were reversed, there is absolutely no doubt you would be demanding Biden do exactly what Trump is doing.
With that I will apologize toy breaking the rhythm of the lefty circle jerk here ... I'm out, enjoy yourself boys.
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Fixed
Why GOP superlawyer leading Never Trumper since 2016 Ben Ginsberg is bucking his party and blasting Trump’s baseless election claims ...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/why-gop-superlawyer-ben-ginsberg-is-bucking-his-party-and-blasting-trumps-baseless-election-claims/2020/11/10/f2aa7056-236d-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F2cad4ed%2F5fac17fe9d2fda0efb63dd65%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F17%2F70%2Fb3563592a6e9cbfdd26e210ad7669201
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Is she as terrible as Trump? She been praised in previous pages here.
Stacey Abrams Still Claims Election ‘Stolen From the People of Georgia’
https://am970theanswer.com/content/national-news/stacey-abrams-still-claims-election-stolen-from-the-people-of-georgia
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/02/politics/georgia-voter-rolls-report/index.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ajc.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/many-eligible-georgia-voters-were-canceled-nation-largest-purge/jRlixHpVs0I9wVQYdDjxvM/%3foutputType=amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/514813-georgia-accused-of-wrongfully-purging-nearly-200000-from-voter-rolls%3famp
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You simply remain a liar.
weak
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I believe everyone agrees that there were actual problems with Florida in 2000. Justice O’Connor in later years, the deciding vote, wondered if the Court should have refused to take the case.
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One thing I haven't seen mentioned is Putin's influence on Trump. Putin's goal, using his puppet is to destroy America's institutions. Well, what institution is more important to this country than voting?
A while back, there was a thread about where trump would be in a couple years. I said at the time that he would be living in Russia. I was not being sarcastic. So, what is my reasoning?
1. He is almost certain to be indicted after he leaves office. Surely, in NY, but maybe also Federally. It has never been decided definitively whether a president has the power to pardon himself. He will never allow himself to be jailed for what could possibly be a life sentence.
2. Putin will push for it. As one of the richest men in the world, he will offer great financial incentives for trump to move to Moscow. Forgive hundreds of millions of dollars in loans that are coming due. Letting trump build a tower in Moscow. Don't forget that trump needs Russia to survive. There are no American banks that will loan him money. any cash he gets will come from banks with ties to Russia. But the biggest reason for Putin to do this is to receive classified info from trump in exchange for loan forgiveness. For the first time in the history of this country, National Security experts have expressed concerns about the safety of classified information in the hands of an ex-president. And based on trump's history, they are right to feel that way.
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What you are seeing happening is how every close election works. It was the case in 2000, 2016, and 2020 ... it will likely be the case in 2024, regardless of who wins.
The damage has long ago been done. This is the new standard. But your outrage is only because your guy won. If the results were reversed, there is absolutely no doubt you would be demanding Biden do exactly what Trump is doing.
With that I will apologize toy breaking the rhythm of the lefty circle jerk here ... I'm out, enjoy yourself boys.
Lol. This election isn’t close so I most certainly wouldn’t support what you are suggesting.
But high-tailing it out of here when getting called out on your bullsh*t is peak Heisey.
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What you are seeing happening is how every close election works. It was the case in 2000, 2016, and 2020 ... it will likely be the case in 2024, regardless of who wins.
The damage has long ago been done. This is the new standard. But your outrage is only because your guy won. If the results were reversed, there is absolutely no doubt you would be demanding Biden do exactly what Trump is doing.
With that I will apologize toy breaking the rhythm of the lefty circle jerk here ... I'm out, enjoy yourself boys.
This was not a close election. It only appears that way because of the delay with mail in votes. Biden is going to win by 6-7 MILLION votes.
Trump claimed a landslide in 2016. Biden won by a much wider margin this time. He re-claimed traditional blue states. He turned 2 red states.
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Well this is about to get locked. AZ and GA for sure going to recount. Is WI as well?
Yes, Heisy drove this off the rails.
And, yes, I think AZ, GA, and WI go to recounts.
If for no other reason to keep "mail-in votes" in the media. There are two goals for the GOP.
1. Delay, and hope they can do the illegal...e.g. replace slates of electors and nullify the popular vote.
2. Create so much base uproar over the fraudulent "mail-in votes" that they cannot be used in the near future. They know they will struggle to win, if people are allowed to vote easier.
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Is she as terrible as Trump? She been praised in previous pages here.
Stacey Abrams Still Claims Election ‘Stolen From the People of Georgia’
https://am970theanswer.com/content/national-news/stacey-abrams-still-claims-election-stolen-from-the-people-of-georgia
A) No, she's fantastic. Not formally conceding while acknowledging that Kemp won ≠ what Trump is doing, but I suspect you already know that.
B) Her opponent Kemp was the sitting Secretary of State who launched an investigation into her before the election for "potential cyber crimes" without providing any evidence. (There was no such hack, as confirmed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.)
C) Kemp unnecessarily purged 340,000 voters from the registration rolls without enough time for them to re-register.
D) What a hideous website. D- design, just awful
(Annnnnd I didn't take my own whataboutism advice. We're supposed to be talking about 2020, my bad)
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I believe everyone agrees that there were actual problems with Florida in 2000. Justice O’Connor in later years, the deciding vote, wondered if the Court should have refused to take the case.
While true, her regret stemmed from the court's involvement, not the decision.
Had the court not intervened and Florida continued to count as the state supreme court ordered, the result would have remained the same.
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A) No, she's fantastic. Not formally conceding while acknowledging that Kemp won ≠ what Trump is doing, but I suspect you already know that.
B) Her opponent Kemp was the sitting Secretary of State who launched an investigation into her before the election for "potential cyber crimes" without providing any evidence. (There was no such hack, as confirmed by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.)
C) Kemp unnecessarily purged 340,000 voters from the registration rolls without enough time for them to re-register.
D) What a hideous website. D- design, just awful
Excellent recap.
A fitting comparison would be if the person in charge of all vote-counting in the United States had purged the voter roles of hundreds of thousands of Trump-friendly voters AND if that person in charge just so happened to be running against Trump.
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let's face it, this whole thing is only being carried out for two reasons:
1) keep the Trump brand moving forward for 2024, if not Donnie then Don Jr. and his botox bimbo (I think the daughter-wife would rather continue be in the background where she can continue to make money);
2) continue fleecing the cult to pay off campaign debts.
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/d4e295a4b7d3fe19e8ca013eff24e0d3/tenor.gif)
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Biden now leads Pennsylvania by 49k votes and climbing.
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The hypocrisy is astounding.
Shameless hypocrisy is a feature, not a bug. See: McConnell, Mitch
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After four years of Democrats yelling RUSSIA about the 2016 election, it is not possible for Trump to undermine this or any election. That credibility was wrecked four years ago.
But I do love how the collective lobotomy here has forgotten the absolute damage that inflicted.
Maybe you should read the Senate Intelligence Committee report. Also, I'd like to read the full Mueller report, but that's been Barred.
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Well this is about to get locked. AZ and GA for sure going to recount. Is WI as well?
Highly unlikely. The margin is so large that Trump would have to pay the $3M out of pocket and they are already trying to fleece donors to pay off campaign debts because they are broke. Factor in that a recount probably wouldn't move more than a couple hundred votes in a 20,000-vote gap and it's not worth it.
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Biden now leads Pennsylvania by 49k votes and climbing.
I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread on the rails. Thanks!
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Yes, Heisy drove this off the rails.
And, yes, I think AZ, GA, and WI go to recounts.
If for no other reason to keep "mail-in votes" in the media. There are two goals for the GOP.
1. Delay, and hope they can do the illegal...e.g. replace slates of electors and nullify the popular vote.
2. Create so much base uproar over the fraudulent "mail-in votes" that they cannot be used in the near future. They know they will struggle to win, if people are allowed to vote easier.
Walker still has some pull in Wisconsin and is pushing for NO recount. There is a 0% chance that a recount will change anything.
While I think your premises in your 2 points is correct, I don't think we will have a recount here. I'll see if I am right or wrong in a few days, I guess.
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let's face it, this whole thing is only being carried out for two reasons:
1) keep the Trump brand moving forward for 2024, if not Donnie then Don Jr. and his botox bimbo (I think the daughter-wife would rather continue be in the background where she can continue to make money);
2) continue fleecing the cult to pay off campaign debts.
How insulting to Kimberly. After all, Roger Ailes made derogatory comments about co-hosts on the show “The Five”, reportedly saying that Kimberly Guilfoyle would “get on her knees for anyone.” :-\
She'd make for a very classy First Lady.
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How insulting to Kimberly. After all, Roger Ailes made derogatory comments about co-hosts on the show “The Five”, reportedly saying that Kimberly Guilfoyle would “get on her knees for anyone.” :-\
She'd make for a very classy First Lady.
There's also all the reports where she offered a lap dance to a highest donor for Trump and multiple times would graphically talk about her sex life.
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Highly unlikely. The margin is so large that Trump would have to pay the $3M out of pocket and they are already trying to fleece donors to pay off campaign debts because they are broke. Factor in that a recount probably wouldn't move more than a couple hundred votes in a 20,000-vote gap and it's not worth it.
and since the money is due upfront there is no way Trump is paying that.
How insulting to Kimberly. After all, Roger Ailes made derogatory comments about co-hosts on the show “The Five”, reportedly saying that Kimberly Guilfoyle would “get on her knees for anyone.” :-\
She'd make for a very classy First Lady.
And don't forget the multiple reports of offering lap dances to the highest donor, fundraisers in hot tubs, and openly and loudly talking about her sex life. Oh, and those pesky issues of sexual indiscretion at Fox News. Family values and class all the way!
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/11/09/kimberly-guilfoyles-sex-talk-with-trump-jr-made-donors-uncomfortable-report-says/
https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-secret-history-of-kimberly-guilfoyles-departure-from-fox
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Walker still has some pull in Wisconsin and is pushing for NO recount. There is a 0% chance that a recount will change anything.
While I think your premises in your 2 points is correct, I don't think we will have a recount here. I'll see if I am right or wrong in a few days, I guess.
Walker is interesting. He initially said the recount wouldn't change anything because of the margin, but then all the Trumpers came after him on Twitter so he wrote an editorial on the Washington Times saying they should do a recount.
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I appreciate your efforts to keep this thread on the rails. Thanks!
👍✌️
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Walker is interesting. He initially said the recount wouldn't change anything because of the margin, but then all the Trumpers came after him on Twitter so he wrote an editorial on the Washington Times saying they should do a recount.
has anyone found Scott Walker's spine? Maybe the Koch's have it displayed at the house, next to Scooter's soul.
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Walker is interesting. He initially said the recount wouldn't change anything because of the margin, but then all the Trumpers came after him on Twitter so he wrote an editorial on the Washington Times saying they should do a recount.
You have to wonder if his mind changed, or he knows that the hogs won't be satisfied until every option has been pursued.
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You have to wonder if his mind changed, or he knows that the hogs won't be satisfied until every option has been pursued.
I think he's just reacting to the crowd. Frankly, there's no point in any of these recounts. Unless there's serious fraud to come, none of the margins are close to what would actually change a result. This isn't Florida 2000, and even if 1-2 of them were that close, Trump needs to flip at least 3 states, which is conservatively a collective 40,000 votes. But even if he managed to flip Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona, that brings Biden down to 270, so it's still not enough without NE-2.
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If anyone is near Minocqua, check this place out:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2020/11/11/minocqua-brewing-launches-biden-beer-inoffensive-kolsch/6250434002/
This fall, Bangstad, the owner of Minocqua Brewing Co., had been threatened with a fine by Oneida County, which objected to his Biden for President sign because it covered one side of his brewpub.
This week, Bangstad introduced Biden beer, a kõlsch he described as "inoffensive and not too bitter" in a phone interview.[/i]
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If anyone is near Minocqua, check this place out:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2020/11/11/minocqua-brewing-launches-biden-beer-inoffensive-kolsch/6250434002/
This fall, Bangstad, the owner of Minocqua Brewing Co., had been threatened with a fine by Oneida County, which objected to his Biden for President sign because it covered one side of his brewpub.
This week, Bangstad introduced Biden beer, a kõlsch he described as "inoffensive and not too bitter" in a phone interview.[/i]
this was the first brewery or even bar that I ever went into where I was served without being carded. Had a beer and took home a growler for my dad when I was 17 or 18.
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Walker is interesting. He initially said the recount wouldn't change anything because of the margin, but then all the Trumpers came after him on Twitter so he wrote an editorial on the Washington Times saying they should do a recount.
The GOP and their media partners spent the Obama years creating a monster - starting with the Tea Party - to serve their interests. But along came Trump, the Tea Party radicalized into MAGA, and the conventional GOPers must now serve the monster they created.
The irony of it all is delicious, and would even be hilarious if it weren't so dangerous.
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If anyone is near Minocqua, check this place out:
https://www.jsonline.com/story/entertainment/beer/2020/11/11/minocqua-brewing-launches-biden-beer-inoffensive-kolsch/6250434002/
This fall, Bangstad, the owner of Minocqua Brewing Co., had been threatened with a fine by Oneida County, which objected to his Biden for President sign because it covered one side of his brewpub.
This week, Bangstad introduced Biden beer, a kõlsch he described as "inoffensive and not too bitter" in a phone interview.[/i]
My grandparents live in Lac Du Flambeau, the next town over. I have spent many a night out at the Minoqua Brewing Co. I highly recommend it
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Biden now leads Pennsylvania by 49k votes and climbing.
Biden now leads Pennsylvania by 50,215.
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Yes, Heisy drove this off the rails.
And, yes, I think AZ, GA, and WI go to recounts.
If for no other reason to keep "mail-in votes" in the media. There are two goals for the GOP.
1. Delay, and hope they can do the illegal...e.g. replace slates of electors and nullify the popular vote.
2. Create so much base uproar over the fraudulent "mail-in votes" that they cannot be used in the near future. They know they will struggle to win, if people are allowed to vote easier.
I actually think it's a third goal.
Pretend to be outraged so they can hang onto the aggrieved Trumpers and keep them on their side. Use them to win more elections in the future.
They know that #1 will absolutely not happen. They likely see that #2 won't, and can absolutely be used to their advantage.
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Let me simply restate this ....
Without evidence, the Democrats accused the Russians of tempering with the 2016 election. And exhaustive investigation took place and it did not produce any evidence the Russians affected the outcome of the election. Along the way, some were charged with process crimes that also did not alter the outcome of the 2016 election.
The result was the credibility of US election process was destroyed.
Comparing alleged voter fraud which didn't occur to confirmed foreign election interference. Adorable.
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I actually think it's a third goal.
Pretend to be outraged so they can hang onto the aggrieved Trumpers and keep them on their side. Use them to win more elections in the future.
They know that #1 will absolutely not happen. They likely see that #2 won't, and can absolutely be used to their advantage.
Totally agree.
Trump loves this because it will likely be Talking Point #1 for him in his post-Presidency career as a TV 'news' broadcaster.
The GOP loves it because it keeps many voters engaged and angry, with a 'we won't let this happen again' mentality.
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While true, her regret stemmed from the court's involvement, not the decision.
Had the court not intervened and Florida continued to count as the state supreme court ordered, the result would have remained the same.
Not sure the bolded is true. Had they done the full recount, they would have looked at over-votes. There were thousands of over-votes, where the person both voted for Gore and wrote in the name Gore.
Particularly in areas where the sample ballot handed out they said you had to vote for a candidate on "ALL PAGES" and the presidential candidates spread across 2-pages. Leading some to vote on both pages, both of which for Gore. In those cases, the intent is clear, and Gore would have gotten those votes. Those on their own were sufficient to allow Gore to win.
Also, Gore and Lieberman insisted on military ballots being treated leniently to lean towards them being counted, even if they arrived late, or were post-marked late. And even though they knew those votes were going against them more often than not.
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Not sure the bolded is true. Had they done the full recount, they would have looked at over-votes. There were thousands of over-votes, where the person both voted for Gore and wrote in the name Gore.
Particularly in areas where the sample ballot handed out they said you had to vote for a candidate on "ALL PAGES" and the presidential candidates spread across 2-pages. Leading some to vote on both pages, both of which for Gore. In those cases, the intent is clear, and Gore would have gotten those votes. Those on their own were sufficient to allow Gore to win.
Also, Gore and Lieberman insisted on military ballots being treated leniently to lean towards them being counted, even if they arrived late, or were post-marked late. And even though they knew those votes were going against them more often than not.
Sore
Loserman
Almost as good as the cut up
ROLL
HEMP
Signs from Dole/Kemp signs.
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I think Pakuni's point was that the Florida Supreme Court ordered a limited recount, and the US Supreme Court upheld that order. Gore wanted the Supreme Court to overrule the Florida Supreme Court and order the statewide recount, which possibly could have lead to a change in the outcome.
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Not sure the bolded is true. Had they done the full recount, they would have looked at over-votes. There were thousands of over-votes, where the person both voted for Gore and wrote in the name Gore.
It's true.
The University of Chicago conducted a full recount and produced results for three scenarios:
1. A recount of Volusia, Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade counties, as requested by the Gore campaign = Bush wins by 225 votes.
2. A recount of undervotes in 64 counties that was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court = Bush wins by 425 votes
3. A recount of the entire state = Gore wins by 60 to 171 votes.
But nobody ordered or asked for #3. Gore just asked for recounts in four blue counties. The Florida Supreme Court didn't order a full recount.
So, if the count had continued as the state supreme court ordered - which was the issue before the U.S. Supreme Court - Bush still wins.
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It's true.
The University of Chicago conducted a full recount and produced results for three scenarios:
1. A recount of Volusia, Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade counties, as requested by the Gore campaign = Bush wins by 225 votes.
2. A recount of undervotes in 64 counties that was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court = Bush wins by 425 votes
3. A recount of the entire state = Gore wins by 60 to 171 votes.
But nobody ordered or asked for #3. Gore just asked for recounts in four blue counties. The Florida Supreme Court didn't order a full recount.
So, if the count had continued as the state supreme court ordered - which was the issue before the U.S. Supreme Court - Bush still wins.
Those stupid hanging chad ballots where they couldn't even tell who voted for who.
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It's true.
The University of Chicago conducted a full recount and produced results for three scenarios:
1. A recount of Volusia, Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade counties, as requested by the Gore campaign = Bush wins by 225 votes.
2. A recount of undervotes in 64 counties that was ordered by the Florida Supreme Court = Bush wins by 425 votes
3. A recount of the entire state = Gore wins by 60 to 171 votes.
But nobody ordered or asked for #3. Gore just asked for recounts in four blue counties. The Florida Supreme Court didn't order a full recount.
So, if the count had continued as the state supreme court ordered - which was the issue before the U.S. Supreme Court - Bush still wins.
Yes, but the University of Chicago analysis ignored all over-votes.
That is key. In the actual recounts, those would have been examined, and as I note above, the evidence suggests they would significantly have favored Gore (in the thousands of votes range).
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Yes, but the University of Chicago analysis ignored all over-votes.
That is key. In the actual recounts, those would have been examined, and as I note above, the evidence suggests they would significantly have favored Gore (in the thousands of votes range).
How could they determine the voters' intent on the overvotes?
And that's irrelevant to what I said, since no one requested or ordered a recount of only the overvotes (if such a thing were even possible).
Again, the only issue before the U.S. Supreme Court is what the Florida Supreme Court ordered. And that was a recount of some 61,000 undervotes from 64 counties. Had SCOTUS not intervened and that count continued, Bush still would have won.
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looks like we found evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania.
Man, I love Lt. Governor Fetterman. 6-9, tatted-up dude who renovated a former car dealership to live in. Now demanding Patrick in TX pay out his reward too: https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1326311204923576321
https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/man-arrested-for-voter-fraud-in-luzerne-county/523-7fc4fd2f-9105-47e7-a510-2b5ff176ab2c
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How could they determine the voters' intent on the overvotes?
And that's irrelevant to what I said, since no one requested or ordered a recount of only the overvotes (if such a thing were even possible).
Again, the only issue before the U.S. Supreme Court is what the Florida Supreme Court ordered. And that was a recount of some 61,000 undervotes from 64 counties. Had SCOTUS not intervened and that count continued, Bush still would have won.
My apologies. You are right, Gore never pushed for over-votes to be considered. The fact that he didn't was part of the Supreme Court decision.
But it is easy to prove intent when both votes were for Gore (both as the candidate and a write in), see my post above. Post-election analysis revealed a substantial number of people voting twice for Gore due to ballot confusion. There is clear intent, because both votes were for the same candidate.
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looks like we found evidence of voter fraud in Pennsylvania.
Man, I love Lt. Governor Fetterman. 6-9, tatted-up dude who renovated a former car dealership to live in. Now demanding Patrick in TX pay out his reward too: https://twitter.com/JohnFetterman/status/1326311204923576321
https://www.wnep.com/article/news/local/luzerne-county/man-arrested-for-voter-fraud-in-luzerne-county/523-7fc4fd2f-9105-47e7-a510-2b5ff176ab2c
It's hysterical that Republicans continue to push the voter fraud fallacy, given that Trump was the one who actually told his supporters to vote absentee and in person.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-encourages-north-carolina-residents-vote-twice-test-mail-system-n1239140
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Walker is interesting. He initially said the recount wouldn't change anything because of the margin, but then all the Trumpers came after him on Twitter so he wrote an editorial on the Washington Times saying they should do a recount.
My Dad and I were talking to Scott at an event in April of 2016 and my Dad, very much out of character, said: "I was really disappointed you endorsed Ted Cruz (in WI GOP primaries). Scott looked at my Dad and said: "you know we had to do everything in our power to keep Trump from winning Wisconsin, and we did, so it was the right move".
I guess Scoot has evolved since then.
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It's hysterical that Republicans continue to push the voter fraud fallacy, given that Trump was the one who actually told his supporters to vote absentee and in person.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-encourages-north-carolina-residents-vote-twice-test-mail-system-n1239140
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/11/democrats-openly-urge-people-to-commit-voter-fraud-by-temporarily-moving-to-georgia/ (https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/11/democrats-openly-urge-people-to-commit-voter-fraud-by-temporarily-moving-to-georgia/) Consider the source, though
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The comments by local officials in that Pennsylvania article are hilarious. One wants the guy locked up for life, the other says this is rampant all over the state.
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One thing that people famously do when they already have evidence is offer a $1 million reward for it.
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Arizona update:
Pima county tabulated 4,589 ballots to the presidential contest.
Breakdown:
Biden: 2,346 (51%)
Trump: 2,129 (46.4%)
Biden now leads Trump 13,027 in Arizona.
Small batch drop in Yavapai after that moves that margin to 12,828.
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Comparing alleged voter fraud which didn't occur to confirmed foreign election interference. Adorable.
"widespread" interference was not confirmed. They never came close to affecting the election, And the Russians do it every election and will do it in every future election as well.
You took 2 1/2 years to show Russia was a giant fraud, premised on lies and deceit. Trump has had 7 days. He is entitled to his chance.
Biden said yesterday this is not impacting the transition.
So this 11-page circle jerk of 8 to 10 unhinged people pleasuring each other is really about nothing.
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Heisy in here owning the libs and getting his clicks quota
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"widespread" interference was not confirmed. They never came close to affecting the election, And the Russians do it every election and will do it in every future election as well.
You took 2 1/2 years to show Russia was a giant fraud, premised on lies and deceit. Trump has had 7 days. He is entitled to his chance.
Biden said yesterday this is not impacting the transition.
So this 11-page circle jerk of 8 to 10 unhinged people pleasuring each other is really about nothing.
When Hillary lost by a much smaller margin, she conceded the next morning. R’s were openly critical that she took so long to concede.
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Heisy in here owning the libs and getting his clicks quota
Yeah if he only made a point now and then.
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Yeah if he only made a point now and then.
He makes a point every time he posts.
Just not the one he thinks he's making.
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When Hillary lost by a much smaller margin, she conceded the next morning. R’s were openly critical that she took so long to concede.
Yes, she did, and then spent the next four years claim Trump stole the election. Would be ok if Trump did the same?
It is a manufactured crisis. Biden said yesterday he was proceeding with the transition and it was not impacting it.
Trump will file lawsuits, if they have no merit, they will be dismissed and the electors will be seated, vote in Biden, and it's over.
This circle jerk that the republic is at risk is equally comical and sad.
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If Heisey posts "circle jerk" one more time, I'm going to start thinking he's subtly inviting us to a party at his place.
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I actually think it's a third goal.
Pretend to be outraged so they can hang onto the aggrieved Trumpers and keep them on their side. Use them to win more elections in the future.
They know that #1 will absolutely not happen. They likely see that #2 won't, and can absolutely be used to their advantage.
There is a fourth goal, although one could argue that it might be included in this one or an earlier one ...
There is a vote in Ga. on Jan. 5 to decide whether the Senate stays red or goes blue. The Republicans want to give their people there something to be ticked off about. "They might have stolen our state from Honest Abe Trump, so we can't let those dirty cheats steal it from our noble Senate candidates!"
Not sure how Trump got robbed in Ga. with a Republican governor, a Republican AG, a Republican secretary of state and a Republican head of elections. Looks like they should all be fired, I guess.
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If Heisey posts "circle jerk" one more time, I'm going to start thinking he's subtly inviting us to a party at his place.
This thread
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emk0qf2W4AM0WKn?format=jpg&name=900x900)
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If Heisey posts "circle jerk" one more time, I'm going to start thinking he's subtly inviting us to a party at his place.
Subtly?
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Yes, she did, and then spent the next four years claim Trump stole the election. Would be ok if Trump did the same?
It is a manufactured crisis. Biden said yesterday he was proceeding with the transition and it was not impacting it.
Trump will file lawsuits, if they have no merit, they will be dismissed and the electors will be seated, vote in Biden, and it's over.
This circle jerk that the republic is at risk is equally comical and sad.
Didn't you say you were leaving a few posts ago?
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This thread
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emk0qf2W4AM0WKn?format=jpg&name=900x900)
It looks like you enjoyed it at least.
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Yes, she did, and then spent the next four years claim Trump stole the election. Would be ok if Trump did the same?
It is a manufactured crisis. Biden said yesterday he was proceeding with the transition and it was not impacting it.
Trump will file lawsuits, if they have no merit, they will be dismissed and the electors will be seated, vote in Biden, and it's over.
This circle jerk that the republic is at risk is equally comical and sad.
Biden hasn't received one Intelligence Briefing yet. This is not typical. Transition of power takes a lot of time and planning. It needed to start sooner. 3 out of the top 4 people now at Defense are not capable people.
Republican Oklahoma Senator James Lankford said today that if Biden and Harris don't get an Intelligence briefing this week, he will get involved. (He worked with Harris at Senate Intel)
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Biden hasn't received one Intelligence Briefing yet. This is not typical. Transition of power takes a lot of time and planning. It needed to start sooner. 3 out of the top 4 people now at Defense are not capable people.
Republican Oklahoma Senator James Langford said today that if Biden and Harris don't get an Intelligence briefing this week, he will get involved. (He worked with Harris at Senate Intel)
This is the swamp over-hyping their own net worth. Trump is still the President for about 70 days. If something comes up, Trump makes the call, not Biden. HW Bush did this after Clinton beat him, he committed US Troops to Somalia ("Black Hawk Down")
Biden will get the briefings he needs and he will be ready on Jan 20, that is all that matters.
It's all a non-story.
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This is the swamp over-hyping their own net worth. Trump is still the President for about 70 days. If something comes up, Trump makes the call, not Biden. HW Bush did this after Clinton beat him, he committed US Troops to Somalia ("Black Hawk Down")
Biden will get the briefings he needs and he will be ready on Jan 20, that is all that matters.
It's all a non-story.
I don't think you understand how this all works. You don't just begin in January without being up to speed on everything.
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I don't think you understand how this all works. You don't just begin in January without being up to speed on everything.
Actually if you didn't get any briefings or anything that'd explain a lot about the trump presidency
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Here is what is happening ... and Don Lemon said it last night.
Don Lemon says media needs time to stop talking Trump, compares it to breakup
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/525268-don-lemon-says-media-needs-time-to-stop-talking-trump-compares-it-to-break-up
“Give us a while here in the news media because we’ve got to, you know, learn how to quit the other person,” Lemon said, referring to the president. “It’s like a breakup. We got to get the other president out of our phone contacts.”
“So for a little bit, if you’ll bear with us,” Lemon said. “We’ve got to talk about the infant going ‘I don’t want to go! I don’t want to go!’”
In other words, this is the media's second to last Trump erection. (the last will be when Trump pardons Stone, Flynn, Manafort, etc.)
Then we get "sleepy Joe." And he will be ... "sleepy." Cable news will collapse.
AT&T knows this, they are desperately trying to sell CNN. Know who else knows this, this guy ....
@CGasparino
BREAKING: Person close to @JeffBezos says no imminent deal for @CNN despite rampant investment banker speculation he likes the asset.
So, fast forward four years. Their will be a left alternate media talking to each other via Twitter, and the right alternate media via Parler. (Zuck is smart, he trying to position himself for both)
We will be further apart than ever. 2024 will be far worse when an 82 year you Biden is running for re-election. (That said, I'll allow for an "over-time media erection" should the Dems try and 25th amendment Biden out before 2024.)
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The laughable thing is all you enlightened types on this thread are allowing yourself to get played by the hysteria of the last second to last media erection about Trump.
So gullible.
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I don't think you understand how this all works. You don't just begin in January without being up to speed on everything.
Mid-December is more than enough time.
Relax Francis
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This is the swamp over-hyping their own net worth. Trump is still the President for about 70 days. If something comes up, Trump makes the call, not Biden. HW Bush did this after Clinton beat him, he committed US Troops to Somalia ("Black Hawk Down")
Biden will get the briefings he needs and he will be ready on Jan 20, that is all that matters.
It's all a non-story.
Hate to disagree with you, but I think you are wrong on the need for briefings. I cant remember where I read it, but one of the reasons 9/11 went down how it did was that Bush was not briefed as quickly as he should have been the previous november/december
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Hate to disagree with you, but I think you are wrong on the need for briefings. I cant remember where I read it, but one of the reasons 9/11 went down how it did was that Bush was not briefed as quickly as he should have been the previous november/december
Yes, that report was largely dismissed many years ago as the Clinton Administration throwing Gore under the bus to protect their own failings to not act on bin Laden.
Or, do you truly believe Gore has the blood of 9/11 on his hands?
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Trolls gonna troll.
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Yes, that report was largely dismissed many years ago as the Clinton Administration throwing Gore under the bus to protect their own failings to not act on bin Laden.
Or, do you truly believe Gore has the blood of 9/11 on his hands?
I remember where I read it, the 9/11 Commission report.
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This is how absolutely pathetic the media has become.
The Times Called Officials in Every State: No Evidence of Voter Fraud
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html
So, The New York Times called all the people responsible for running the election in every state, and asked if they have evidence of fraud. They said no.
Restated, The New York Times asked "did you screw up" they said no. Case closed and they ran the giant headline below.
This is what passes for serious investigative journalism.
And you wonder why reporters get less respect than used car salesmen. But as long as it fits your priors, it becomes part of the circle jerk
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/11/11/nytfrontpage/scan.jpg)
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Pennsylvania:
Biden leads by 51,447
Georgia:
Biden leads by 14,057
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Yeah instead they should do what your media does and report on birtherism, and an anonymous forum poster ranting about a Child sex trafficking, satan worshipping, canabalistic cabal of democrats.
Ones at least legit research the other is tin foil hats
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Yes, that report was largely dismissed many years ago as the Clinton Administration throwing Gore under the bus to protect their own failings to not act on bin Laden.
Or, do you truly believe Gore has the blood of 9/11 on his hands?
Don't you have another forum you can destroy?
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Don't you have another forum you can destroy?
Banned from 8chan 😂
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This is how absolutely pathetic the media has become.
The Times Called Officials in Every State: No Evidence of Voter Fraud
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/us/politics/voting-fraud.html
So, The New York Times called all the people responsible for running the election in every state, and asked if they have evidence of fraud. They said no.
Restated, The New York Times asked "did you screw up" they said no. Case closed and they ran the giant headline below.
This is what passes for serious investigative journalism.
And you wonder why reporters get less respect than used car salesmen. But as long as it fits your priors, it becomes part of the circle jerk
(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/11/11/nytfrontpage/scan.jpg)
So let me get this straight.
Trump alleges massive voter fraud all over the place and that he's the legit winner. But there has been no evidence introduced in courts of law that indicates massive fraud, nor have the various secretaries of state identified such fraud.
But the problem is the Democrats and the press.
Do I have that right?
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Yeah instead they should do what your media does and report on birtherism, and an anonymous forum poster ranting about a Child sex trafficking, satan worshipping, canabalistic cabal of democrats.
Ones at least legit research the other is tin foil hats
Calling officials for comment and ending it there is not an investigation a high school journalism class would accept. Yet this is exactly what the NYT just today in today's paper.
But that is the conclusion you want so you stay, and to stay the good graces of the circle jerk, you take "whataboutism" to a laughable level.
Here is reality ...
Was their fraud? It's a freaking American election, yes! Was there enough to matter? Who knows. But calling the secretary of state and asking if they screw up is not an investigation of voter fraud. It's an embarrassment.
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Don't you have another forum you can destroy?
https://parler.com/
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Calling officials for comment and ending it there is not an investigation a high school journalism class would accept. Yet this is exactly what the NYT just today in today's paper.
But that is the conclusion you want so you stay, and to stay the good graces of the circle jerk, you take "whataboutism" to a laughable level.
Here is reality ...
Was their fraud? It's a freaking American election, yes! Was there enough to matter? Who knows. But calling the secretary of state and asking if they screw up is not an investigation of voter fraud. It's an embarrassment.
No my point is you rally against "the media" but you don't mean that you only mean central aka honest media or left leaning media. Meanwhile you turn a blind eye to the much more embarrassing crap that you yourself have posted as sources on here time and time again.
And calling republican Secretaries of State who are desperately loyal to stay in trumps good graces you'd expect them to say "somethings off" if they even had the slightest sticky note come across the desk.
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So let me get this straight.
Trump alleges massive voter fraud all over the place and that he's the legit winner. But there has been no evidence introduced in courts of law that indicates massive fraud, nor have the various secretaries of state identified such fraud.
But the problem is the Democrats and the press.
Do I have that right?
So, this does not count?
McEnany Unveils 234 Pages Of Affidavits Alleging Election Irregularities In Michigan
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcenany-unveils-234-pages-affidavits-alleging-election-irregularities-michigan
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No my point is you rally against "the media" but you don't mean that you only mean central aka honest media or left leaning media. Meanwhile you turn a blind eye to the much more embarrassing crap that you yourself have posted as sources on here time and time again.
And calling republican Secretaries of State who are desperately loyal to stay in trumps good graces you'd expect them to say "somethings off" if they even had the slightest sticky note come across the desk.
Do you realize the highlighted part is a massive indictment of you ... you're just a hyperpartisan and the sad part is you probably think you're reasonable on this subject.
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Do you realize the highlighted part is a massive indictment of you ... you're just a hyperpartisan and the sad part is you probably think you're reasonable on this subject.
Yes I'm hyper partisan. I imagine you believe you're what the sensible non partisan genius here? I just looked at the website you posted and they publish all sorts of that tin foil hat garbage where your indictment of them?
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So, this does not count?
McEnany Unveils 234 Pages Of Affidavits Alleging Election Irregularities In Michigan
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcenany-unveils-234-pages-affidavits-alleging-election-irregularities-michigan
Nope. A proven liar doing what proven liars do in the safe space that allows them to do it. This “evidence” will fall apart under the slightest scrutiny just like all the other “evidence” has. Keep on believing it though.
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So, this does not count?
McEnany Unveils 234 Pages Of Affidavits Alleging Election Irregularities In Michigan
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcenany-unveils-234-pages-affidavits-alleging-election-irregularities-michigan
https://twitter.com/freep/status/1326583786029666305?s=19
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1326573889187667970?s=19
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1326699986134859776?s=19
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Yes I'm hyper partisan. I imagine you believe you're what the sensible non partisan genius here? I just looked at the website you posted and they publish all sorts of that tin foil hat garbage where your indictment of them?
So the administration did not release 234 pages of affidavits just because you personally do like source link? It did not happen because The New York Times did not give you permission to think this way?
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"widespread" interference was not confirmed. They never came close to affecting the election, And the Russians do it every election and will do it in every future election as well.
Time to go home folks. Not only has Heisy informed us that the Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee is just plain wrong about the Russians interfering on the 2016 election, even if they did interfere they never impacted the election. That's ballgame. He's WAY smarter than our intelligence services (and the intelligence service of 9 other countries), so who are we to argue.
Who is going to call Putin to tell him he wasted all that time, effort, and money?
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So the administration did not release 234 pages of affidavits just because you personally do like source link? It did not happen because The New York Times did not give you permission to think this way?
So election interference happened just because the tin foil hat sites you follow told you it did? It works both ways, if you're going to rail against the media rail against your side's media too. But you and Guru and the dentists don't and can't seem to see any irony in that.
There was likely fraud, it probably was very rare as Pakuni said there's a lot of checks that we aren't aware of. It likely happened on both side as we've already seen one arrest of a trump voting person. That being said, wide scale fraud like your guy is claiming when you won senate seats and house seats? It's laughable.
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https://twitter.com/freep/status/1326583786029666305?s=19
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1326573889187667970?s=19
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1326699986134859776?s=19
I'm embarrassed for you ... I addressed why this is BS this on the previous page and you sent me back the same link!!
Another blinded hyperpartisan that only knows what The New York Times allows him to see.
Regarding the rest, Trump's case might fall apart, it might not. But until it is litigated, it is "evidence" which everyone claims there has been none.
So, Trump has provided evidence, but it's far easier to say "there is none" than addressing it. That requires time and effort and takes one away from the circle jerk.
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We should believe this guy
https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/524963-graham-vows-senate-judiciary-will-investigate-voting-irregularities (https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/524963-graham-vows-senate-judiciary-will-investigate-voting-irregularities)
Oops
Seriously. File or suit or go away. There is no equivalence to the past. This is not normal behavior and we shouldn’t accept it.
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So election interference happened just because the tin foil hat sites you follow told you it did? It works both ways, if you're going to rail against the media rail against your side's media too. But you and Guru and the dentists don't and can't seem to see any irony in that.
There was likely fraud, it probably was very rare as Pakuni said there's a lot of checks that we aren't aware of. It likely happened on both side as we've already seen one arrest of a trump voting person. That being said, wide scale fraud like your guy is claiming when you won senate seats and house seats? It's laughable.
Please stop digging yourself into a hole and actually read the link. What you will find is pdfs of all 234 pages that were submitted to the court. Actual court documents, not media speculation.
I understand it is hard to get a hand free right now, but here is a link, one click, to a court document with evidence
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598.1.3.pdf
And to repeat, I do not know if this is significant or not, neither do you or the rest of the circle jerk.
But I do know it is actual evidence when you keep insisting that none exists.
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So, this does not count?
McEnany Unveils 234 Pages Of Affidavits Alleging Election Irregularities In Michigan
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcenany-unveils-234-pages-affidavits-alleging-election-irregularities-michigan
We will see where this goes. My guess is nowhere. Yours?
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Yes, she did, and then spent the next four years claim Trump stole the election. Would be ok if Trump did the same?
It is a manufactured crisis. Biden said yesterday he was proceeding with the transition and it was not impacting it.
Trump will file lawsuits, if they have no merit, they will be dismissed and the electors will be seated, vote in Biden, and it's over.
This circle jerk that the republic is at risk is equally comical and sad.
Nah, there's no downplaying this. This is an attack on democracy because his braindead cult thinks this is real. That will continue to undermine confidence in free and fair elections. Now he's installing loyalists in the Pentagon. No big deal, right?
You're so detached from reality it would be comical if it wasn't so sad.
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Please stop digging yourself into a hole and actually read the link. What you will find is pdfs of all 234 pages that were submitted to the court. Actual court documents, not media speculation.
I understand it is hard to get a hand free right now, but here in a link, one click, to a court document with evidence
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598.1.3.pdf
And to repeat, I do not know if this is significant or not, neither do you or the rest of the circle jerk.
But I do know it is actual evidence when you keep insisting that none exists.
What hole exactly? The first paragraph is merely pointing out that you and your side have huge intellectual inconsistencies with your beliefs about media and refuse to admit it.
Where did I say that no evidence exists? I say "it likely happened" you say "get your hand out of your pants" which of us seems like a mature stable adult? I'll gladly look at your link when you acknowledge you hold the media to different standards when it agrees with you.
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So, this does not count?
McEnany Unveils 234 Pages Of Affidavits Alleging Election Irregularities In Michigan
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/mcenany-unveils-234-pages-affidavits-alleging-election-irregularities-michigan
There's as much quality evidence there as there was a new healthcare plan in the binder KayLIE handed to Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes.
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We will see where this goes. My guess is nowhere. Yours?
Thank you ...
At least you appear understand there is actual evidence of fraud that has been submitted, despite what today's New York Times crack investigators said earlier today. So, stop with the now 12 pages that the republic is at risk of annihilation because Biden cannot get an intelligence briefing 70 days before the inauguration.
Trump has the absolute right to do this. And it is not out of line. Ask Al Gore.
(And for the record, I don't think he is over-turning the election either, but I cannot stop laughing at the circle jerk that Trump is ruining democracy by doing this)
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There's as much quality evidence there as there was a new healthcare plan in the binder KayLIE handed to Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes.
I lost my circle jerk decoder ring so I have no idea what trivial and insignificant event you referring to.
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This thread is making me thirsty
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What hole exactly? The first paragraph is merely pointing out that you and your side have huge intellectual inconsistencies with your beliefs about media and refuse to admit it.
Where did I say that no evidence exists? I say "it likely happened" you say "get your hand out of your pants" which of us seems like a mature stable adult? I'll gladly look at your link when you acknowledge you hold the media to different standards when it agrees with you.
First, I did not accuse you of Toobin-ing (side note, did you see he was whacked today).
Second, there are media that pass along facts and there are media that traffic in partisan opinion. Facts can be found on many sites, from hard left to hard right and all in-between. Partisan opinions are mostly found on page 1 of The New York Times.
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How are people still responding to Heise? He doesn’t get enough attention so all he can do is talk about jerking dudes off. How have people not realized his high is getting you to click his posts? He literally admitted it. He’d rather intentionally be seen as the fool he is than be a Scoop nobody.
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I brought this up in the locked vote thread, but assuming he is not in jail I do believe he will run again in 2024.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1326701255431958528
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I lost my circle jerk decoder ring so I have no idea what trivial and insignificant event you referring to.
That's not all you lost. Let me translate for you - there will be nothing substantive in those 234 pages, other than how much time it'll waste getting thrown out.
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How are people still responding to Heise? He doesn’t get enough attention so all he can do is talk about jerking dudes off. How have people not realized his high is getting you to click his posts? He literally admitted it. He’d rather intentionally be seen as the fool he is than be a Scoop nobody.
You buddy Fluffy (is that your right and or left hand) dared me to come back.
Lol. This election isn’t close so I most certainly wouldn’t support what you are suggesting.
But high-tailing it out of here when getting called out on your bullsh*t is peak Heisey.
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That's not all you lost. Let me translate for you - there will be nothing substantive in those 234 pages, other than how much time it'll waste getting thrown out.
This might very well be correct. But the effort is more important than waking Joe from his afternoon nap for an intelligence briefing he'll forget before his 4:30 dinner ... 70 days before he is President.
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This might very well be correct. But the effort is more important than waking Joe from his afternoon nap for an intelligence briefing he'll forget before his 4:30 dinner ... 70 days before he is President.
No need to waste any more time based on the abject stupidity of your response.
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No need to waste any more time based on the abject stupidity of your response.
enjoy yourself
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Thank you ...
At least you appear understand there is actual evidence of fraud that has been submitted, despite what today's New York Times crack investigators said earlier today. So, stop with the now 12 pages that the republic is at risk of annihilation because Biden cannot get an intelligence briefing 70 days before the inauguration.
Trump has the absolute right to do this. And it is not out of line. Ask Al Gore.
(And for the record, I don't think he is over-turning the election either, but I cannot stop laughing at the circle jerk that Trump is ruining democracy by doing this)
Uh no. This is trash and rightfully being treated as such. It’s desperation. Sure it’s his “right,” but the President Elect is right...it’s embarrassing.
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I think this now plays well here
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First, I did not accuse you of Toobin-ing (side note, did you see he was whacked today).
Second, there are media that pass along facts and there are media that traffic in partisan opinion. Facts can be found on many sites, from hard left to hard right and all in-between. Partisan opinions are mostly found on page 1 of The New York Times.
you're right you said you'd understand it's hard to get a hand free right now in combination with a circle jerk reference. Very different and much more mature than straight up saying that I'm Toobining, which I do appreciate the funny culture reference there.
Your link is referring to the sticky note thing. I imagine soon they'll be able to track down this judge, plus the others in charge and get to the bottom of this. If it amounts to something then I'm al for a free and fair election. If it doesn't and this guys lying I hope he's brought up on perjury. If the judge was lying to make something seem like something it wasn't then I hope she's blacklisted from judging and doxxed.
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Please stop digging yourself into a hole and actually read the link. What you will find is pdfs of all 234 pages that were submitted to the court. Actual court documents, not media speculation.
I understand it is hard to get a hand free right now, but here is a link, one click, to a court document with evidence
https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598/gov.uscourts.miwd.99598.1.3.pdf
And to repeat, I do not know if this is significant or not, neither do you or the rest of the circle jerk.
But I do know it is actual evidence when you keep insisting that none exists.
I'm going to respond one time to you.
That is not evidence. It is hearsay. So many things wrong with that "evidence".
1. The person, witness if you are generous, can't provide the poll persons name, or identity that supposedly was the eye-witness.
2. They can't confirm whether the actual date received was on 11/2. Just because the ballot was being adjudicated on 11/4, does not mean it was received on 11/4. Actually, it lmplies that it was received much earlier. Because adjudicated ballots are first collected, processed, tabulated, scanned etc., before it is determined that there was an issue with that ballot that required adjudication.
3. For adjudicated ballots, 3 people on a bipartisan committee need to evaluate all aspects of the ballot and all agree that everything is valid. Why didn't any of the people on the bipartisan committee raise an issue, why just the poll-watcher.
Any and all judges would throw this and the attorney out of their courtroom immediately, and be pretty ticked off that their time was being wasted.
Also, any attorney should investigate, identify the poll challenger (as a more direct witness), find the poll worker, and include both of their sworn statements, as well as sworn statements from all others working that table/zone. Anything less than that level of investigation is gross negligence, and worse than a 6th grade book report effort.
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I brought this up in the locked vote thread, but assuming he is not in jail I do believe he will run again in 2024.
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1326701255431958528
He will announce he is running (likely won't).
He will do so to allow fundraising right away. Pay off debts, and keep funneling campaign money to his businesses. He has quite successfully used his campaigns as essentially a money laundering scheme.
Donations come in. The bulk get paid to a "consulting company," who then can pay whoever they wish, whatever amounts they want without being subject to public reporting and scrutiny.
https://apnews.com/article/campaigns-campaign-finance-donald-trump-politics-elections-1129d0391021da3282ff99378656a920