I heard from a source I consider to be reliable that Harry Froling was dismissed from the team yesterday. Clearly this has not been substantiated by Marquette yet, but just thought I'd share. If true, could explain's Harry's lack of playing time recently.
Rocky's edit: not true. He's in NYC with the team
He played yesterday. I think there is about a 1% chance of this being true.
IF true, I think the writing was on the wall. His body language on the bench, wojo's presser remarks, etc
I don't understand why we would cut someone at this point in the season
Attitude and chemistry if true
Polaxed
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on March 04, 2018, 04:21:31 PM
He played yesterday. I think there is about a 1% chance of this being true.
There IS a reason I put "Rumor" in the title of the thread. I was surprised too, but I have no reason to doubt the information source. #DoneDeal
Dismissed means there was an issue, such as grades, etc., right? Just wouldn't do such a thing with few games to go without a problem.
If he decided to leave, then the press rule of thumb is " For the best of both parties".
Believe it when I see it. Few games ago, when he those threes, the bench, coaches were going nuts.
I complained about his game and said he would be 13th man on the team next year. I also complained that he exuded zero toughness. Not wanting to pile on i was also not keen on his attitude. I pay very close attention to timeouts n huddles n watch the bench and observe attitudes. Frolings was disappointing at best. Bitched in many huddles that he was fin open n get me the ball. Nothing terrible but definitely had alot of me first in my observations. Dont want to pile on a kid if the rumors are false. My observations could be wrong although usually not in this regard. Also things i have seen may have been rare or minor, but stood out versus the rest of the team that i have thought have seemed to very very tight n all in this year and excellent in that regard. We shall see.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 04, 2018, 04:40:38 PM
I complained about his game and said he would be 13th man on the team next year. I also complained that he exuded zero toughness. Not wanting to pile on i was also not keen on his attitude. I pay very close attention to timeouts n huddles n watch the bench and observe attitudes. Frolings was disappointing at best. Bitched in many huddles that he was fin open n get me the ball. Nothing terrible but definitely had alot of me in my observations. Dont want to pile on a kid if the rumors are false. My observations could be wrong although usually not in this regard. Also things i have seen may have been rare or minor, but stood out versus the rest of the team that i have thought have seemed to very very tight n all in this year and excellent in that regard. We shall see.
Lol.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 04, 2018, 04:40:38 PM
I complained about his game and said he would be 13th man on the team next year. I also complained that he exuded zero toughness. Not wanting to pile on i was also not keen on his attitude. I pay very close attention to timeouts n huddles n watch the bench and observe attitudes. Frolings was disappointing at best. Bitched in many huddles that he was fin open n get me the ball. Nothing terrible but definitely had alot of me in my observations. Dont want to pile on a kid if the rumors are false. My observations could be wrong although usually not in this regard. Also things i have seen may have been rare or minor, but stood out versus the rest of the team that i have thought have seemed to very very tight n all in this year and excellent in that regard. We shall see.
You have a keen eye for the nuances involved in the game at this level. The point your making is a lot of little things add up. Lets see how this all plays out. I hope this rumor is not true.
I won't believe the rumor until I have a detailed analysis of Harry's slap of five patterns
I will say he does seem to have a very "mopey, woe-is-me" kind of attitude on the court.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 04:47:42 PM
I won't believe the rumor until I have a detailed analysis of Harry's slap of five patterns
He refuses to give them unless he's getting the ball. Then the huddles are all high 5s all the time from Harry. Instead of "get me the damn ball" because he's not getting his touches, the huddle turns into "get me the damn ball!" Because he can't miss.
At least that's what sandknit hears while closely observing the huddles.
If the rumor is true, something explosive had to happen last night. Wojo wouldn't play a player who was dismissed or about to be dismissed. He also wouldn't dismiss a player just for a scholarship spot right before the BET.
I also have seen none of the attitude issues that are coming out of the woodwork in this thread. I've seen a willing passer who is always cheering on the bench. The bench goes crazy when he scores and Sam and Markus have both told him to keep shooting during the game
Delete this thread, or hide it until something official comes out, if it ever does. Not fair to the young man or the team to have unsubstantiated rumors.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 04:47:42 PM
I won't believe the rumor until I have a detailed analysis of Harry's slap of five patterns
Well, we have one overhand slap of 5 on video at the half, and a second half full of courtesy claps.
Believe it when I see it, though. Not everyone is a Rowsey level firecracker.
https://youtu.be/ZbCzMzT_us0
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 04, 2018, 05:01:12 PM
Delete this thread, or hide it until something official comes out, if it ever does. Not fair to the young man or the team to have unsubstantiated rumors.
Yup.
Hagans somehow connected?
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 04, 2018, 05:01:12 PM
Delete this thread, or hide it until something official comes out, if it ever does. Not fair to the young man or the team to have unsubstantiated rumors.
Seconded, this does no good for all concerned.
Quote from: spartan3186 on March 04, 2018, 04:18:28 PM
I heard from a source I consider to be reliable that Harry Froling was dismissed from the team yesterday. Clearly this has not been substantiated by Marquette yet, but just thought I'd share. If true, could explain's Harry's lack of playing time recently.
That is stickin it out there, eyn'a?
I think the thread is fine. Poster prefaced that this was a rumor. This is muSCOOP after all.
What we should hold off on is the Harry bashing that will inevitably happen if he transfers...and has started already
Hope its not true, I hate this trend and would like to see Harry develop.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 05:30:40 PM
I think the thread is fine. Poster prefaced that this was a rumor. This is muSCOOP after all.
What we should hold off on is the Harry bashing that will inevitably happen if he transfers...and has started already
Yup. People all over OP when people in this thread bashing a kid. OP did not do that.
Nothing from Steele. Until I see either a MU official or at least something from Ben, I'm not buying.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 05:30:40 PM
I think the thread is fine. Poster prefaced that this was a rumor. This is muSCOOP after all.
What we should hold off on is the Harry bashing that will inevitably happen if he transfers...and has started already
Uhh...NO
I don't know about it happening yesterday, but have heard from a few people that he won't be returning next season. Heading back home.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 05:30:40 PM
I think the thread is fine. Poster prefaced that this was a rumor. This is muSCOOP after all.
I'm missing something here, at this time what benefit does this rumor provide for us? Sorry if I'm a little Slow. Thanks
Quote from: Hagans Cannon on March 04, 2018, 05:46:39 PM
I'm missing something here, at this time what benefit does this rumor provide for us? Sorry if I'm a little Slow. Thanks
Discussion?
lets Give him the benefit...please. Seems like a nice guy and gets along.
The only real problem was he is a big man who shoots 3s on a team with 3 of the best 3 point shooters in the nation. So needed less. Didn't get off to a great start and lots of guys who deserve minutes. I think we can logically say that Harry won't have a lot of playing time next year especially with Morrow and and others. Not because he is a bad guy.
Wood knot bee outta nowhere, were it true. Got da Wojo heave ho, aina?
Quote from: Hagans Cannon on March 04, 2018, 05:46:39 PM
I'm missing something here, at this time what benefit does this rumor provide for us? Sorry if I'm a little Slow. Thanks
What does it hurt? No one last stated anything that would hurt harry's Reputation. They are simply saying he is no longer with the team
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 04, 2018, 05:55:57 PM
What does it hurt? No one last stated anything that would hurt harry's Reputation. They are simply saying he is no longer with the team
I don't know how many ways it would Hurt him or the team. But my question was/is what are the benefits?
Sumtymes ya get addition bye subtraction, hey?
Quote from: Hagans Cannon on March 04, 2018, 06:02:25 PM
I don't know how many ways it would Hurt him or the team. But my question was/is what are the benefits?
What are the benefits in discussing rumors about recruits, such as grimes? We got our hopes up for nothing. I didn't see you posting on the boards telling people to stop talking about rumors then.
I think it's fine. It's been discussed here before. My guess is that he hasn't been dismissed but that he's not going to be here next year.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 04, 2018, 06:08:11 PM
What are the benefits in discussing rumors about recruits, such as grimes? We got our hopes up for nothing. I didn't see you posting on the boards telling people to stop talking about rumors then.
Thanks for your Reply.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 04, 2018, 06:09:04 PM
I think it's fine. It's been discussed here before. My guess is that he hasn't been dismissed but that he's not going to be here next year.
This is my best guess too.
Roster space for Hagans and Happ now?
There were some Twitter posts that were from Bs accounts about a week ago retweeting he was going pro in Australia after this year.... Don't think there's anything going on. If there is with the front court well have next year.... Oh well. Such is college basketball
Quote from: Clam Crowder on March 04, 2018, 06:31:59 PM
There were some Twitter posts that were from Bs accounts about a week ago retweeting he was going pro in Australia after this year.... Don't think there's anything going on. If there is with the front court well have next year.... Oh well. Such is college basketball
Are we sure the accounts were BS?
This thread is so wrong on so many levels.
Wish some would wait for more concrete info.
Quote from: MUUWUWM on March 04, 2018, 06:49:14 PM
This thread is so wrong on so many levels.
Wish some would wait for more concrete info.
Agreed...right before the BE tournament, do you really think Wojo would want a distraction such as this?? It would be much more prudent to discuss this IF/When it happens. It does NO ONE any good to discuss it now.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 04, 2018, 06:42:28 PM
Are we sure the accounts were BS?
Just speculation from Australia.
https://coupler.foxsports.com.au/api/v1/article/amp/basketball/nba/ncaa-notes-harry-froling-done-at-marquette-could-xavir-cooks-make-the-leap-to-the-nba-jock-landale-gets-player-of-the-year-hype/news-story/4781fbb0aac141687bdd885833b06e87?__twitter_impression=true
Really hope this isn't true. He may not end up having a prominent role in this team, but depth is important. I would love Harry to stick around.
I'm also of the opinion that this thread does nothing but spread false or unsubstantiated rumors and there is really no benefit to it. IF he decides to leave MU, certainly we can discuss then.
Quote from: muguru on March 04, 2018, 07:01:29 PM
Agreed...right before the BE tournament, do you really think Wojo would want a distraction such as this?? It would be much more prudent to discuss this IF/When it happens. It does NO ONE any good to discuss it now.
I think I'll be ok.
I mean, I feel ok.
Quote from: muguru on March 04, 2018, 07:01:29 PM
Agreed...right before the BE tournament, do you really think Wojo would want a distraction such as this?? It would be much more prudent to discuss this IF/When it happens. It does NO ONE any good to discuss it now.
I can guarantee you Wojo will not find this post to be s distraction.
If untrue, much ado about nothing.
If true, timing unusual. The suddenness of it suggests misbehavior, rule breaking.
I had been thinking about end-of-season evaluations, expectations for next year. As to the former,
he was supposed to have a good offense down low. He showed flashes, but overall it wasn't there.
He had a rough start on 3's which was supposed to be a strength, but it also wasn't there (although he did make a couple of big ones in NJ). His defense was largely abysmal. I did think I saw fragments suggesting improvement lately.
My thinking for next year was that I suspected he would be sort of a fill-in and insurance against an injury to Matt/Theo/Morrow.
I also watched him in huddles during TO's and did NOT pick up signs of disinterest or disdain. He always seemed to be listening.
If he goes pro in Australia, good luck to him. I have no earthly idea about the level of play in pro leagues in Australia, but I'm thinking that if he can't make more of an impact on the college level than he has so far, he's got a long row to hoe.
Quote from: muguru on March 04, 2018, 07:01:29 PM
Agreed...right before the BE tournament, do you really think Wojo would want a distraction such as this?? It would be much more prudent to discuss this IF/When it happens. It does NO ONE any good to discuss it now.
As if Wojo doesn't already know if Froling was dismissed from the team.
The rumor is either true, in which case Wojo and the team are probably already aware of it and already distracted to whatever extent they will be regardless of whether or not it's discussed here.
Or it's not true, in which case it won't be a distraction at all--it might even provide a moment of levity during a busy week ("Can you believe what they're saying now? Ha ha").
I would just like to add that I got nothing.
Froyo is dismissed from team. Wojo is in Ice Cream Truck mode--none of that weak froyo stuff.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 04, 2018, 04:58:38 PM
If the rumor is true, something explosive had to happen last night. Wojo wouldn't play a player who was dismissed or about to be dismissed. He also wouldn't dismiss a player just for a scholarship spot right before the BET.
I also have seen none of the attitude issues that are coming out of the woodwork in this thread. I've seen a willing passer who is always cheering on the bench. The bench goes crazy when he scores and Sam and Markus have both told him to keep shooting during the game
On Saturday I noticed him being pretty quiet and steaming on the bench after he was taken out. Kind of like Rowsey was when he got benched vs Nova last year (When Deiner was grabbing him and stopping him from yelling at Wojo)
Making room for Happ i see
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on March 04, 2018, 08:59:58 PM
On Saturday I noticed him being pretty quiet and steaming on the bench after he was taken out. Kind of like Rowsey was when he got benched vs Nova last year (When Deiner was grabbing him and stopping him from yelling at Wojo)
I think he way pissed after being wide open under the basket and M2N seemed to look right at him and then did not pass it to him
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 04, 2018, 08:39:09 PM
I would just like to add that I got nothing.
I would like to make the same contribution to this thread.
I'd prefer he stay - his potential is obvious. That being said, if a player were to go I'd be least disappointed if it were him.
I heard he was pissed that on the last road trip, the team went to Chili's instead of Outback.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2018, 12:00:57 AM
I'd prefer he stay - his potential is obvious. That being said, if a player were to go I'd be least disappointed if it were him.
Is his potential really obvious? Cause I don't really see it.
I hear he isn't playing today.
I don't know about this rumor... I hope he stays. But I'm just posting in this thread in case someone offers $100 to all posters.
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2018, 12:12:09 AM
I heard he was pissed that on the last road trip, the team went to Chili's instead of Outback.
Was Arby's too busy?
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 04:33:10 AM
Is his potential really obvious? Cause I don't really see it.
Potentially a good backup center in Australia. Which, incidentally, is probably the most important factor in all of this. He has an obvious plan C, since plan A and B haven't worked...
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 04:33:10 AM
Is his potential really obvious? Cause I don't really see it.
Bigs develop slowly. See all the "experts" here that wrote off Heldt as a waste of a scholarship midway through his freshman year.
He is far from home and the massive fluctuations in his weight should tell you the adjustment is tough.
He is still 20/21 years old. We would like all young men to show the maturity of Howard but they do not and that is what makes Howard special.
Bottom line - never ever give up on a 6' 11" that can hit a three. It might take time but it is worth the investment.
If that argument does not work, just do the opposite of the consensus opinion on this board and you will often be mistaken for the second coming of Nostradamus.
I never wrote off Heldt because I thought the guy could at least bang a little on the inside. He was a willing worker and defender from the get go.
Froling doesn't seem to be any of those things.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 08:10:11 AM
I never wrote off Heldt because I thought the guy could at least bang a little on the inside. He was a willing worker and defender from the get go.
Froling doesn't seem to be any of those things.
I have been critical of Heldt because he is a starter in a league where he is a 10-12 minute off the bench guy.
I like him, he works hard but he is not a Big East caliber starter.
So, if Froeling can't beat out Matt, where does that put him? I hope he stays and develops, but I am not optimistic.
I'm with Tugg on this one. Never give up on a big. I don't know Harry's future. I do know that if he had come to MU during the Crean years or Buzz years he would have gotten a lot of playing time and would have been among the best bigs either of those two managed to land. He has the odd fate to come to MU when it is awash in bigs.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 08:10:11 AM
I never wrote off Heldt because I thought the guy could at least bang a little on the inside. He was a willing worker and defender from the get go.
Froling doesn't seem to be any of those things.
Did not say you wrote off Heldt ... it was the "expert" opinion here that wrote him off.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 08:10:11 AM
I never wrote off Heldt because I thought the guy could at least bang a little on the inside. He was a willing worker and defender from the get go.
Froling doesn't seem to be any of those things.
His future is as a stretch 4. We need to stop making him a blue-collar 5.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 08:18:13 AM
His future is as a stretch 4. We need to stop making him a blue-collar 5.
It was wide open for him to step into that role this year. Remember he started by backing up Sam. But he couldn't do it. Now he will have Morrow and Joey in front of him as well.
He's MU's Alex Van Vliet. Comes here with a reputation for scoring, but can't play defense worth anything and ends up not being much of a scorer as well.
My kid for some reason follows Froling on Instagram. He was looking for someone to play the game Fortnight with on either Friday or Saturday night.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 08:01:30 AM
Bigs develop slowly. See all the "experts" here that wrote off Heldt as a waste of a scholarship midway through his freshman year.
He is far from home and the massive fluctuations in his weight should tell you the adjustment is tough.
He is still 20/21 years old. We would like all young men to show the maturity of Howard but they do not and that is what makes Howard special.
Bottom line - never ever give up on a 6' 11" that can hit a three. It might take time but it is worth the investment.
If that argument does not work, just do the opposite of the consensus opinion on this board and you will often be mistaken for the second coming of Nostradamus.
His shot looks better than most bigs, but he isn't going to start to stretch defenses shooting 20% from 3. His best skillset right now is rebounding, followed by his passing. He does a nice job of getting himself in position to get boards and really distributes the ball well for a big guy. Maybe things can change this summer, but I don't see anything wrong with Harry being a more traditional big and not trying to be an outside threat.
The trouble we have this year and will likely have next year will be finding lineups that we can use him in. Next year we'll have 6 guys that can play the 4/5, so minutes are going to be tough to come by, not just for Harry, but for the whole group. If he's getting DNPs this year, odds are probably high that it will continue next year too.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 05, 2018, 08:25:25 AM
My kid for some reason follows Froling on Instagram. He was looking for someone to play the game Fortnight with on either Friday or Saturday night.
It's a free game on the computer. Not exactly something you need access to a console for.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 05, 2018, 08:25:25 AM
My kid for some reason follows Froling on Instagram. He was looking for someone to play the game Fortnight with on either Friday or Saturday night.
So your kid beat Harry at some video game, Harry threatened him and was kicked off the team.
Truth revealed!
Quote from: skianth16 on March 04, 2018, 07:30:57 PM
I can guarantee you Wojo will not find this post to be s distraction.
This is so good.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 08:13:51 AM
I'm with Tugg on this one. Never give up on a big. I don't know Harry's future. I do know that if he had come to MU during the Crean years or Buzz years he would have gotten a lot of playing time and would have been among the best bigs either of those two managed to land. He has the odd fate to come to MU when it is awash in bigs.
Among the best bigs from the Crean and Buzz years? I'd take Otule, Gardner, Barro, Merritt all over Harry at this point, not to mention Crowder and Hayward who were 3/4 guys but still played big. Heck, at this point, even guys like Amoroso and Burke would be in that conversation.
And to say we're "awash" with bigs - right now we have Heldt, who is OK but not quite a power 6 caliber guy, and Theo, who is a physical specimen but very raw and still has a lot to learn - we're not exactly deep this year with high caliber bigs. Most guys with Harry's credentials probably would have expected to start this year and be a significant contributor. I don't want to rip the kid too much, but the argument you're making about him just doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 08:47:53 AM
Among the best bigs from the Crean and Buzz years? I'd take Otule, Gardner, Barro, Merritt all over Harry at this point, not to mention Crowder and Hayward who were 3/4 guys but still played big. Heck, at this point, even guys like Amoroso and Burke would be in that conversation.
And to say we're "awash" with bigs - right now we have Heldt, who is OK but not quite a power 6 caliber guy, and Theo, who is a physical specimen but very raw and still has a lot to learn - we're not exactly deep this year with high caliber bigs. Most guys with Harry's credentials probably would have expected to start this year and be a significant contributor. I don't want to rip the kid too much, but the argument you're making about him just doesn't make any sense.
Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey. All are 6'7" or taller.
Otherwise, how do you define "big"?
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey. All are 6'7" or taller.
Otherwise, how do you define "big"?
Tall does not equal big. Big does not equal tall.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey. All are 6'7" or taller.
Otherwise, how do you define "big"?
I agree we'll be deep next year. Although I don't think Sam or Bailey will play at the 4 much. Maybe in some unique lineups. Also, don't forget Eke for next year.
What I said was that we're not deep this year (you even bolded those exact words ;)), and we're still having a hard time finding a role for Harry. When we have even more competition for minutes, I'm not sure where he would fit in.
I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa. Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner. And Gardner was 6'7. Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson. I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land. Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time. But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 09:13:11 AM
I agree we'll be deep next year. Although I don't think Sam or Bailey will play at the 4 much. Maybe in some unique lineups. Also, don't forget Eke for next year.
What I said was that we're not deep this year (you even bolded those exact words ;)), and we're still having a hard time finding a role for Harry. When we have even more competition for minutes, I'm not sure where he would fit in.
I think it all starts with his shot. If he can knock down in 3PG, he gains confidence and there will be minutes for him.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa. Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner. And Gardner was 6'7. Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson. I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land. Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time. But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.
Agree with this in general.
I will say that if Harry could get as adept at his role (whatever that turns out to be) as Otule and Barro were at theirs, I'd be quite content with him. And he'd get some PT.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey. All are 6'7" or taller.
Otherwise, how do you define "big"?
And Ike Eke..
Froling not dismissed from team.
Probably going back down under after the year.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa. Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner. And Gardner was 6'7. Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson. I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land. Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time. But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree because we are on completely different pages. You must see some massive potential in Harry take him over guys who earned their minutes week in and week out. We haven't had any dominant big men, but we've had plenty of good role players who contributed to the teams they were on. Guys like Otule and Ousmanne and Merritt weren't out there single-handedly winning games for their teams, but they played solid minutes and did their jobs well enough. Sure, they could have been replaced by other big men pretty easily, but I'd still say they were better at the roles they played than Harry is now. Maybe Harry makes a big leap this summer, but I just don't see the minutes coming next year for us to ever find out.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2018, 09:27:53 AM
Froling not dismissed from team.
Probably going back down under after the year.
Glad to hear it on the first part.
Hope that's not the case on the second part.
Because there was a lack of quality bigs, they played through their slumps. Or the team went small. When Harry hit a slump, there was no way for him to play through it, as Heldt and Theo were doing creditable jobs. Gardner and Otule knew their roles. When they were both injured, Jamil Wilson played the 5 and extended minutes. Ooze had two jobs on offense, to camp out in the little alley behind the backboard, catch dump offs, and offensive rebound. When he went out, he was replaced by.....Grimm? Kinsella? Lott? The rest? Please.
If Harry had come in in the exact situation that Luke did and was forced to play 30 minutes on a bad team, he would have been more successful than he has been on this team. As good as Luke? Probably not. But good enough that we would be looking forward to next year instead of being blase' about him going back to Australia.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 09:36:59 AM
Glad to hear it on the first part.
Hope that's not the case on the second part.
Harry needs to work a summer and fall to get his game to the level of other college bigs. It takes time for bigs to get going, plus Harry has a new body that he did not
have a year ago. Just needs some confidence which at this time of year, will not get it. If MU goes NIT, I would be giving him some real playing time. He has a bigger
upside than Matt and even Theo. He worked hard to change his body, now he has to work on playing ball. I do not want to see him leave but I can see he will have an uphill battle for PT time next year.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 05, 2018, 09:12:46 AM
Tall does not equal big. Big does not equal tall.
"Judge me by my size, do you?"...
"Do. Or do not. There is no try." Yoda, The Empire Strikes Back
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 09:42:12 AM
Because there was a lack of quality bigs, they played through their slumps. Or the team went small. When Harry hit a slump, there was no way for him to play through it, as Heldt and Theo were doing creditable jobs. Gardner and Otule knew their roles. When they were both injured, Jamil Wilson played the 5 and extended minutes. Ooze had two jobs on offense, to camp out in the little alley behind the backboard, catch dump offs, and offensive rebound. When he went out, he was replaced by.....Grimm? Kinsella? Lott? The rest? Please.
If Harry had come in in the exact situation that Luke did and was forced to play 30 minutes on a bad team, he would have been more successful than he has been on this team. As good as Luke? Probably not. But good enough that we would be looking forward to next year instead of being blase' about him going back to Australia.
Sorry but I just don't agree with this at all. You are seeing something in him that I simply do not see.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 09:49:38 AM
Sorry but I just don't agree with this at all. You are seeing something in him that I simply do not see.
Lets see if he plays against DePaul, as he could play against Maric, slow white guy like him. Take him out of the middle to open the lanes for the guards to
drive.
Fair enough. I see a 6'11 guy with good hands, who looks to pass, who has nice form on his jump shot and has shown signs of being strong around the rim.... before his confidence disintegrated. Defensively, I see a guy who is struggling to play defense against Big East bigs. Who should never ever ever switch onto a guard. (an aside: this is one of the weaknesses of MU's pick and roll defense. When the big either switches or lingers out high instead of hustling back to the lane after turning the PG.) But who at least competes in post defense.
But right now, I see a guy with zero confidence on a team that has two other post players who are playing with confidence.
But we can agree to disagree.
I see him as having Bill Laimbeer skills, but lacking the confidence and attitude right now. Also, I think he handles the ball better and can drive better than Laimbeer did.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2018, 09:27:53 AM
Froling not dismissed from team.
Probably going back down under after the year.
So, the source from the OP not that reliable after all. Oh well, great to throw it out there anyways.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 09:16:32 AM
I think it all starts with his shot. If he can knock down in 3PG, he gains confidence and there will be minutes for him.
That could be true about how he'll gain confidence, but is that what we need right now? We're one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the country already. Do we need anyone else hanging out 20 feet away from the hoop? We need help on the boards and on defense, two things Harry could really help us with. He's shown himself to be a good rebounder, and having an extra big body in the paint should help out on D, at least in certain situations. Maybe his skillset works better with next year's roster than this year's and the minutes will come easier. Only time will tell (hopefully).
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 10:04:46 AM
That could be true about how he'll gain confidence, but is that what we need right now? We're one of the best 3pt shooting teams in the country already. Do we need anyone else hanging out 20 feet away from the hoop? We need help on the boards and on defense, two things Harry could really help us with. He's shown himself to be a good rebounder, and having an extra big body in the paint should help out on D, at least in certain situations. Maybe his skillset works better with next year's roster than this year's and the minutes will come easier. Only time will tell (hopefully).
I agree with this. Next year we will have plenty of muscle under the basket. He can then compete to be Sam's backup at the stretch 4 position.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa. Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner. And Gardner was 6'7. Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson. I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land. Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time. But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.
I think you under rate Otule and Ooze, but can see your point.
If he stays, fine. Maybe he still can find a role.
If he goes, fine. We have plenty of others at his position and can use the scholly on somebody else.
This is one I'm definitely not gonna lose sleep on.
Either Wojo and staff didn't do a very good job preparing him for the rigors of the Big East (I'm bullish on Wojo, but nobody is perfect) ... or Bilas and other yakkers vastly overstated Harry's potential (I'm a big Bilas fan, but the guy kept saying Gasser would get drafted and play in the NBA).
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2018, 09:27:53 AM
Froling not dismissed from team.
Probably going back down under after the year.
Did you hear something about this, or are you just assuming he's still with the team since there hasn't been any news about it?
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 10:08:26 AM
I agree with this. Next year we will have plenty of muscle under the basket. He can then compete to be Sam's backup at the stretch 4 position.
Next year MU will have 3 Power forwards. Add Morrow and Joey. Sam is a stretch forward, and I am pretty sure he will have a hard time guarding players like
Mikal Bridges or anyone like him. The question that has to be answered is can Morrow guard a 3. If he can then, you can play them together. I still see Cain,
Anim and maybe Bailey playing the small forward. There will be more interchangeable parts next year, that is for sure. Like to have one of the three bigs make a
big jump. It would be Theo or Harry, I think you have seen the best from Matt.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 05, 2018, 10:19:32 AM
Next year MU will have 3 Power forwards. Add Morrow and Joey. Sam is a stretch forward, and I am pretty sure he will have a hard time guarding players like
Mikal Bridges or anyone like him. The question that has to be answered is can Morrow guard a 3. If he can then, you can play them together. I still see Cain,
Anim and maybe Bailey playing the small forward. There will be more interchangeable parts next year, that is for sure. Like to have one of the three bigs make a
big jump. It would be Theo or Harry, I think you have seen the best from Matt.
Good thing Bridges will be in the NBA!
I think Sam will primarily play the 3 next year.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 05, 2018, 10:19:32 AM
Next year MU will have 3 Power forwards. Add Morrow and Joey. Sam is a stretch forward, and I am pretty sure he will have a hard time guarding players like
Mikal Bridges or anyone like him. The question that has to be answered is can Morrow guard a 3. If he can then, you can play them together. I still see Cain,
Anim and maybe Bailey playing the small forward. There will be more interchangeable parts next year, that is for sure. Like to have one of the three bigs make a
big jump. It would be Theo or Harry, I think you have seen the best from Matt.
I think Sam would guard a 3 before Ed ever does, and maybe using Bridges as an examples is a bad choice since very few people in the country can guard him and he will be drafted in the lottery.
I think any lineup with Harry next year will not necessarily be 1-5. I think it will most likely be 2 bigs, 2 guards, and Sam/Cain/Bailey. The bigs and the guards will be interchangeable, and you just play whats the best match-up on D.
Sam can guard a 3. He may get beat off the dribble from time to time, but as opposed to years past, there will actually be size behind him playing help defense.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 10:24:03 AM
Good thing Bridges will be in the NBA!
I think Sam will primarily play the 3 next year.
You really think he can guard players Bridges, Desi, Foster or Thomas, or anyone like that? They will blow right by him. Yes, most of those guys are gone next
year, but others will be there much like those guys.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 05, 2018, 10:33:48 AM
You really think he can guard players Bridges, Desi, Foster or Thomas, or anyone like that? They will blow right by him. Yes, most of those guys are gone next
year, but others will be there much like those guys.
He absolutely can.
Not hearing anything about a dismissal. Lots of speculation on him going back home after the season or transferring... But nothing definitive just people assuming he's not happy with his role.
What I do know is this, if Harry makes the trip to NYC, he wasn't dismissed. If he plays a single minute from here on out then he hasn't told Wojo he's leaving yet. I know for a fact that Wojo would not play a player who has told him that he is leaving the team.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2018, 10:37:30 AM
Not hearing anything about a dismissal. Lots of speculation on him going back home after the season or transferring... But nothing definitive just people assuming he's not happy with his role.
What I do know is this, if Harry makes the trip to NYC, he wasn't dismissed. If he plays a single minute from here on out then he hasn't told Wojo he's leaving yet. I know for a fact that Wojo would not play a player who has told him that he is leaving the team.
Yup. Haanif Cheatham and Traci Carter are Exhibits #1 and #2 of that fact. As soon as they said they were transferring, they were no longer on the team.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 05, 2018, 10:33:48 AM
You really think he can guard players Bridges, Desi, Foster or Thomas, or anyone like that? They will blow right by him. Yes, most of those guys are gone next
year, but others will be there much like those guys.
Guard them? Absolutely. Lock them down? No... But very few people can. And three of those guys will be gone fo sho, and I think the 4th one goes too.
Foster and Thomas also aren't 3s... They are 2s who sometimes play the 3
If Harry is yet another player unhappy with his role, or wants to go home, or whatever, theynanother mis-read by the staff, especially after sitting out a year to potentially play in like 15 games or less. But recruiting is a tough game. I like Harry and hope he stays.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 10:29:57 AM
Sam can guard a 3. He may get beat off the dribble from time to time, but as opposed to years past, there will actually be size behind him playing help defense.
Several times this year Sam guarded players like Brunson.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2018, 10:41:12 AM
Guard them? Absolutely. Lock them down? No... But very few people can. And three of those guys will be gone fo sho, and I think the 4th one goes too.
Foster and Thomas also aren't 3s... They are 2s who sometimes play the 3
I know most of those players will be gone, but other 6'6" small forwards will be there. Diallo, Strus, and teams playing 3 guards. But can they guard Sam as well.
So it is fun to conjecture.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 05, 2018, 10:50:31 AM
Several times this year Sam guarded players like Brunson.
I say this about Sam, he really improved his game over his freshman to soph season, He could not even dribble the ball as frosh nor post a player. His next big move,
is to improve his jumping ability and lateral quickness. I can see him working on that this summer. Guarding a Brunson no, but a small forward, yes.
Quote from: Daniel on March 05, 2018, 10:43:47 AM
If Harry is yet another player unhappy with his role, or wants to go home, or whatever, theynanother mis-read by the staff, especially after sitting out a year to potentially play in like 15 games or less. But recruiting is a tough game. I like Harry and hope he stays.
Hard to have 13 guys all pleased with the roles.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 11:03:02 AM
Hard to have 13 guys all pleased with the roles.
True - but someone did an analysis on our turnover rate and the national average is about 40% and ours was closer to 60%. But I agree - I can't even remember when we had 13 schollie players last lol
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 10:17:20 AM
Did you hear something about this, or are you just assuming he's still with the team since there hasn't been any news about it?
This is what I heard. Reliable source. Felt the need to nip this rumor in the bud.
Quote from: Daniel on March 05, 2018, 11:10:50 AM
True - but someone did an analysis on our turnover rate and the national average is about 40% and ours was closer to 60%. But I agree - I can't even remember when we had 13 schollie players last lol
Since most teams play 9 players or 10 tops, you can see why kids transfer. They want to play. Happens everywhere. Most teams do not have 13, they have lots
of walk-ons. If MU gets that 13th player next year, how happy will be Froling, Eke, and Bailey be. Or for that matter, Heldt and Anim, as those three mentioned before
might be better. Have to bring it everyday in practice. That is what most coaches want. MU has been short most of Wojos tenure here until next year.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 05, 2018, 11:00:35 AM
I say this about Sam, he really improved his game over his freshman to soph season, He could not even dribble the ball as frosh nor post a player. His next big move,
is to improve his jumping ability and lateral quickness. I can see him working on that this summer. Guarding a Brunson no, but a small forward, yes.
I saw him briefly guard Brunson and another quality guard ( can't remember who) this season and Sam used his size well on those occasions. Yes, he is not ready to guard those quick guys every possession, but if he works on the skills you outlined above , I think he can definitely be effective next year against a small forward.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 05, 2018, 11:16:07 AM
This is what I heard. Reliable source. Felt the need to nip this rumor in the bud.
Good. I still think we would've beat DePaul had Harry played last time. Hoping he gets minutes Wednesday. Thanks for the info
Mods, I think you should change the thread title. Bit of a bad look.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
I would take Harry over Otule, Ooze, Merritt, Grimm, Roseboro, McMorrow, Mbao, Kinsella, Lott, Amorosa. Pretty any much any 6'10 guy from those two eras except Jackson and Gardner. And Gardner was 6'7. Maybe Merritt, but I remember him as a turnover machine who was only successful when playing next to Jackson. I think time has fogged your memory about the shortcomings of all of those guys and the frustration here over (A) their development and (B) the lack of quality big men that either coach could land. Granted, Crowder, Hayward, and Butler made lemonade out of lemons and turned having to guard 5 positions into NBA time. But I think you are letting short term frustration distort long term perspective.
Are u nuts?? Harry over Merritt? Harry over ooze or otule??!!!
One can only surmise you never saw those guys play?? Merritt was a 3 yr starter including on a Final Four team, yes people butched he was soft, but that is relative. He was an Fin bruiser compared to harry with a significantly better offensive skill set. A Top 75 recruit n 1000 point scorer on loaded teams. Man thats a topper!!
Also harry in no way shape or form compares to Ooze or Otule. Chris was an outstanding defensive center and while he did not rebound extremely well could clear the lane for others offensively n defensively. Ooze additionally while not offensively gufted was extremely athletic and did many of the little things that i have not come close to seeing.
Dont get me wrong, harry has been in flux. I would like to see him dig in and develop the toughness that is required of a collegiate 5 in a Big 6 conference. He has the size and has shown some skill but that doesnt matter until he develops the toughness n selfless attitude.
He is night and day from those three horrible examples, i may even argue id take Grimm and Lott over him right now. He has a ton of potential but that is the most over used word in athletics
Froling in NYC with the team via Snapchat. I feel weird adding people I'm 7 years older than on Snapchat to find out if this rumor was true.
Quote from: Daniel on March 05, 2018, 10:43:47 AM
If Harry is yet another player unhappy with his role, or wants to go home, or whatever, theynanother mis-read by the staff, especially after sitting out a year to potentially play in like 15 games or less. But recruiting is a tough game. I like Harry and hope he stays.
I don't see how recruiting Froling can be seen as a miss. Marquette was looking at Heldt as the starter, with a 6'9" out of the top 100 freshman recruit as his back-up. How do you NOT take a flyer on a 6-11 skilled big man?
Unless he was blocking us from recruiting a more talented big, which I don't think was the case, anything MU gets out of Harry is gravy.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on March 05, 2018, 09:10:32 AM
Next Year's Bigs are Heldt, Froling, Theo, Morrow, Both Hausers and Brenden Bailey. All are 6'7" or taller.
Otherwise, how do you define "big"?
You left out Ike.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 05, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
Froling in NYC with the team via Snapchat. I feel weird adding people I'm 7 years older than on Snapchat to find out if this rumor was true.
Thanks.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 09:35:06 AM
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree because we are on completely different pages. You must see some massive potential in Harry take him over guys who earned their minutes week in and week out. We haven't had any dominant big men, but we've had plenty of good role players who contributed to the teams they were on. Guys like Otule and Ousmanne and Merritt weren't out there single-handedly winning games for their teams, but they played solid minutes and did their jobs well enough. Sure, they could have been replaced by other big men pretty easily, but I'd still say they were better at the roles they played than Harry is now. Maybe Harry makes a big leap this summer, but I just don't see the minutes coming next year for us to ever find out.
Smh totally agree
All three were 3 yr starters on extremely good teams for the bulk of their tenure. All three of them were starting n significant contributors during this point in their sophomore years. And its being discussed that harry who cant get off the bench behind lesser player than the three aformentuoned, yet tower would take harry?!
Lay off the crack
Quote from: TSmith34 on March 05, 2018, 11:49:04 AM
I don't see how recruiting Froling can be seen as a miss. Marquette was looking at Heldt as the starter, with a 6'9" out of the top 100 freshman recruit as his back-up. How do you NOT take a flyer on a 6-11 skilled big man?
Unless he was blocking us from recruiting a more talented big, which I don't think was the case, anything MU gets out of Harry is gravy.
If Harry leaves, which is TBD right now, we will have used 2 years worth of scholarships on him with pretty limited output. Hard to find a silver lining there. Wojo knew he'd have Theo and Ike this year with Morrow eligible next year. I don't think he really needed to try to add a big for this year. I get why he did it, but I'm assuming there were other ways he could have tried to fill that scholarship spot.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 11:59:16 AM
If Harry leaves, which is TBD right now, we will have used 2 years worth of scholarships on him with pretty limited output. Hard to find a silver lining there. Wojo knew he'd have Theo and Ike this year with Morrow eligible next year. I don't think he really needed to try to add a big for this year. I get why he did it, but I'm assuming there were other ways he could have tried to fill that scholarship spot.
Disagree i have no issues with taking a top 100 6'11 transfer. If and again a "if" harry leaves or doesnt work out , that is 100% on harry n nothing to do with the coaches. They simply provide an opportunity, some rise up and take it. When the going gets tough some shy away. Again not saying this is the case with harry, i have no clue. Just saying if it ends poorly its 100% on harry. Sometimes ya gotta dig in n fight for sonething
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 11:59:16 AM
If Harry leaves, which is TBD right now, we will have used 2 years worth of scholarships on him with pretty limited output. Hard to find a silver lining there. Wojo knew he'd have Theo and Ike this year with Morrow eligible next year. I don't think he really needed to try to add a big for this year. I get why he did it, but I'm assuming there were other ways he could have tried to fill that scholarship spot.
Maybe they knew from the beginning Ike was red shirting, Theo a freshman. Yes Froling had very limited playing time but had experience in a D1 program.
Very few programs can keep 13 scholarship players happy. Some programs (UW) have had scholarship players sit on the bench for four years and the players are totally fine with it. We're never gonna have a team that goes 13 deep, 11 if you consider 1 red shirt a year and one sitting out as a result of transferring in, so I'm OK with gambling on a few scholarships every couple of years. Ike may develop into a serviceable big, he may not. The only reason that Ike is less of a gamble than Harry is that we'll have Ike for a longer time (which could even be seen as a reason that Ike is a bigger gamble if he doesn't pan out).
With no official announcement, I sort of suspect the message got scrambled when getting relayed to multiple people.
My guess is that he's made it known within the program that he's going to play pro-ball in Australia seem feasible.
I can certainly see how that message could change to "dismissed from the team" in a game of telephone. I'm going to hold off on changing the name of the thread until after the typical 5 pm news dump time period.
Quote from: spartan3186 on March 05, 2018, 03:16:40 PM
With no official announcement, I sort of suspect the message got scrambled when getting relayed to multiple people.
My guess is that he's made it known within the program that he's going to play pro-ball in Australia seem feasible.
I can certainly see how that message could change to "dismissed from the team" in a game of telephone. I'm going to hold off on changing the name of the thread until after the typical 5 pm news dump time period.
Harry is in New York with the team. He clearly was not dismissed.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 05, 2018, 11:32:30 AM
Are u nuts?? Harry over Merritt? Harry over ooze or otule??!!!
One can only surmise you never saw those guys play?? Merritt was a 3 yr starter including on a Final Four team, yes people butched he was soft, but that is relative. He was an Fin bruiser compared to harry with a significantly better offensive skill set. A Top 75 recruit n 1000 point scorer on loaded teams. Man thats a topper!!
Plus effing one. Merritt on this squad = 3 more wins
Quote from: Marquette Gyros on March 05, 2018, 03:42:41 PM
Plus effing one. Merritt on this squad = 3 more wins
Yep. Harry has some nice potential and I'd like to see him stick around and develop...but any comparison to Merritt is just crazy.
I think have forgotten how frustrating Merritt was without Jackson next to him. For me, the most frustrating player this century from an expectation versus results perspective. So, I concede from a purely objective standpoint, he was better than Harry. I would still take Harry over Ooze.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 04:55:53 PM
I think have forgotten how frustrating Merritt was without Jackson next to him. For me, the most frustrating player this century from an expectation versus results perspective. So, I concede from a purely objective standpoint, he was better than Harry. I would still take Harry over Ooze.
Where does Jamil Wilson rank on this list? Just curious
...and Kerry Trotter?
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on March 05, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
Where does Jamil Wilson rank on this list? Just curious
Behind Merritt.
Well, one thing to be thankful for. Whoever started the statements on this board that Froling was a difference maker was certainly clairovoyant. Froling made no difference.
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on March 05, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
Where does Jamil Wilson rank on this list? Just curious
Don't fault Jamil because your expectations were too high. He was a solid player.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2018, 05:17:52 PM
Well, one thing to be thankful for. Whoever started the statements on this board that Froling was a difference maker was certainly clairovoyant. Froling made no difference.
Ya, because you've never made a clueless comment.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 05:21:11 PM
Don't fault Jamil because your expectations were too high. He was a solid player.
Sultan—kinda surprised it took you so long to come to JW's 'expectation defense'. This time it was over 20 minutes!
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on March 05, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
Where does Jamil Wilson rank on this list? Just curious
Jamil did make the NBA.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 04:55:53 PM
I think have forgotten how frustrating Merritt was without Jackson next to him. For me, the most frustrating player this century from an expectation versus results perspective. So, I concede from a purely objective standpoint, he was better than Harry. I would still take Harry over Ooze.
I do remember how moving Merritt from 5 over to 4 and having Rjax on the floor opened his game up a ton.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 06:14:01 PM
Ya, because you've never made a clueless comment.
I guess we know that you must have been the difference maker pronosticator. Well done sir.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 05, 2018, 07:36:37 PM
I guess we know that you must have been the difference maker pronosticator. Well done sir.
I, like many others, thought Harry would have a bigger impact than he has. I still think he could be a very good player at MU, but he's not there yet. Seeing as though he's basically a freshman in terms of playing time, I'm not particularly concerned. Hence why I'd like him to stick around and hope that he does.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 07:44:19 PM
I, like many others, thought Harry would have a bigger impact than he has. I still think he could be a very good player at MU, but he's not there yet. Seeing as though he's basically a freshman in terms of playing time, I'm not particularly concerned. Hence why I'd like him to stick around and hope that he does.
I look forward to not seeing this argument appear over and over again. Just a few more weeks...
And btw merritt averaged 10 n 6, and 11 n 7 his last two years. Frustrating heck yes he was but 10,000x the player Froling is right now
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
I look forward to not seeing this argument appear over and over again. Just a few more weeks...
Lol. He's played significantly less minutes than Greg and Jamal and like 20 mins more than Theo in his career. So.....
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 08:03:52 PM
Lol. He's played significantly less minutes than Greg and Jamal and like 20 mins more than Theo in his career. So.....
Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....
As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.
Heading into the start of his Junior year, Frank Kaminsky had logged about 600 minutes in his college career, which is right about where Greg will be after Wednesday or Thursday night. Are you going to tell me that you think Greg Elliott, on March 8 of his freshman year is basically the same as Frank Kaminsky on November 1 of his junior year?
If Harry was playing well, we wouldn't hear this line trotted out so regularly, but since he's underperformed expectations, it's become over-used crutch for the overly-optimistic-on-Harry camp.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 07:52:42 PM
I look forward to not seeing this argument appear over and over again. Just a few more weeks...
I tend to agree. This argument is one of expediency. When he was a redshirt freshman, we were all "He's had a whole year to build his body". It's also true there is no substitute for live action and that the Big East schedule is not the best place to get your first taste of it. All of these things can be simultaneously true.
I hope he comes back next year. There's still something untapped there. But I also won't be heartbroken.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2018, 04:55:53 PM
I think have forgotten how frustrating Merritt was without Jackson next to him. For me, the most frustrating player this century from an expectation versus results perspective. So, I concede from a purely objective standpoint, he was better than Harry. I would still take Harry over Ooze.
Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2018, 08:29:15 PM
Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.
I remember seeing him dressed in a pretty solid Flava Flav costume at a Halloween party one year. I became a much bigger fan after that.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 05:21:11 PM
Don't fault Jamil because your expectations were too high. He was a solid player.
Very solid, but had a higher ceiling. He eventually reached that ceiling, frustrating it wasn't here.
RSCI top 40.
Quote from: PTM + Hagans = Us on March 05, 2018, 08:33:40 PM
Very solid, but had a higher ceiling. He eventually reached that ceiling, frustrating it wasn't here.
RSCI top 40.
Right he was RSCI 40. If you look at those around him on the 2009 list, he performed better than most of them. (Not all of them by any means.)
The problem was that he was a top ten player as a sophomore in HS and we were basing our expectations on that. He ended up just a few spots ahead of Junior.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....
As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.
Heading into the start of his Junior year, Frank Kaminsky had logged about 600 minutes in his college career, which is right about where Greg will be after Wednesday or Thursday night. Are you going to tell me that you think Greg Elliott, on March 8 of his freshman year is basically the same as Frank Kaminsky on November 1 of his junior year?
If Harry was playing well, we wouldn't hear this line trotted out so regularly, but since he's underperformed expectations, it's become over-used crutch for the overly-optimistic-on-Harry camp.
Good points.
It's a fallacy that cuts across all sports really. When the team's results are mixed, fans tend to clamor for the guy at the end of the bench and say that the coaches should use that player more, or that they misused that player. Generally speaking, the player actually deserved to be at the end of the bench, and there wasn't some sort of coaching conspiracy or misevaluation.
We witnessed a great example of it on this forum, obviously, with the epic rise and fall of one Harry Froling.
IDK if it's hashed out in the DSM but the phenomenon definitely exists.
FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 05, 2018, 08:48:40 PM
FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.
I do too.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....
As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.
Heading into the start of his Junior year, Frank Kaminsky had logged about 600 minutes in his college career, which is right about where Greg will be after Wednesday or Thursday night. Are you going to tell me that you think Greg Elliott, on March 8 of his freshman year is basically the same as Frank Kaminsky on November 1 of his junior year?
If Harry was playing well, we wouldn't hear this line trotted out so regularly, but since he's underperformed expectations, it's become over-used crutch for the overly-optimistic-on-Harry camp.
I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 09:13:20 PM
I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.
I think that's all pretty reasonable. We can agree on the above.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 05, 2018, 08:48:40 PM
FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.
Agree.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 09:13:20 PM
I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.
Only a few here "see what's so wrong about that," JJJJJ. I certainly agree with you.
But Harry might be one who sees something wrong with that.
And his is the only vote that counts.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 05, 2018, 08:45:10 PM
Right he was RSCI 40. If you look at those around him on the 2009 list, he performed better than most of them. (Not all of them by any means.)
The problem was that he was a top ten player as a sophomore in HS and we were basing our expectations on that. He ended up just a few spots ahead of Junior.
Completely agree, did you see Kawhi? I know you saw Kawhi.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 09:13:20 PM
I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.
Agree
Quote from: PTM + Hagans = Us on March 05, 2018, 10:57:54 PM
Completely agree, did you see Kawhi? I know you saw Kawhi.
Yep!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 04, 2018, 05:55:40 PM
Wood knot bee outta nowhere, were it true. Got da Wojo heave ho, aina?
Dude, please translate?
Quote from: skianth16 on March 05, 2018, 08:20:10 PM
Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....
As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.
So, when Eke is not excelling by March next year, will you not accept that he is basically a freshman?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 05, 2018, 03:24:02 PM
Harry is in New York with the team. He clearly was not dismissed.
Maybe flights to Australia are cheaper via NYC.
Can someone please change the thread title?
Quote from: NCMUFan on March 06, 2018, 05:36:48 AM
Dude, please translate?
Got you covered= Would not be out of nowhere, got Poleaxed.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 06, 2018, 07:27:19 AM
Can someone please change the thread title?
OP source had junk info. Being "dismissed" is completely different than "might not return next season."
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 05, 2018, 11:56:01 AM
Smh totally agree
All three were 3 yr starters on extremely good teams for the bulk of their tenure. All three of them were starting n significant contributors during this point in their sophomore years. And its being discussed that harry who cant get off the bench behind lesser player than the three aformentuoned, yet tower would take harry?!
Lay off the crack
Anyone who would put Harry above Merritt or Ooze on the hierarchy of MU big men, well, let's just say, that's one absurd, hot take.
Harry has some skills, yet he's at least another year away of major strength and conditioning work away from being a contributor. Below the rim player at 6'10" just doesn't scream high major big man.
Quote from: tower912 on March 06, 2018, 05:37:44 AM
So, when Eke is not excelling by March next year, will you not accept that he is basically a freshman?
Let's start that one with if and not when, for one thing. I think Ike should be well ahead of the typical incoming freshman. I think all redshirt freshmen should be. So no, I won't say he's basically a freshman. I'll say he's a resdshirt guy and had a year to get bigger and better.
In my example above, comparing freshman year Greg to Junior year Kaminsky - would you say they're basically in the same place?
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2018, 08:29:15 PM
Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.
I don't dislike Ooze. And for several years, he was the best big man that MU had. But it cannot be argued that he had great numbers.
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/ousmane_barro
It is my contention that if Froling was forced to be the featured big man, a la Ooze or Luke, his numbers over 4 years would be better than Ooze's. Which is a low bar.
Merritt..... ok. Conceded.
Quote from: spartan3186 on March 05, 2018, 03:16:40 PM
With no official announcement, I sort of suspect the message got scrambled when getting relayed to multiple people.
My guess is that he's made it known within the program that he's going to play pro-ball in Australia seem feasible.
I can certainly see how that message could change to "dismissed from the team" in a game of telephone. I'm going to hold off on changing the name of the thread until after the typical 5 pm news dump time period.
The "don't shoot the messenger" defense only works when delivering what you believe to be a truthful message in good faith.
Even though you knew this was a rumor and clearly disclosed the same, it was dangerously close to the line between "innocuous rumor," e.g. Crean's getting a new tanning bed for the hyperbaric chamber, and "incendiary rumor," e.g. blank blank and blank kicked a bunch of puppies on their way to a grade school gang rape. In other words, nobody cares if the former isn't true, but even if proven false, the latter can have damaging consequences.
Granted, the harm here is minimal (if any), but my friendly recommendation is to tread more cautiously next time when proposing rumors involving the careers of 18-22 year old students.
Or at least try to verify your source.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 06, 2018, 08:29:24 AM
Let's start that one with if and not when, for one thing. I think Ike should be well ahead of the typical incoming freshman. I think all redshirt freshmen should be. So no, I won't say he's basically a freshman. I'll say he's a resdshirt guy and had a year to get bigger and better.
In my example above, comparing freshman year Greg to Junior year Kaminsky - would you say they're basically in the same place?
We will just have to disagree. And I don't expect Greg to be the National Player of the year in 2 years.
I don't really get the comparison between big men. Harry is a completely different type of player with a different skillset that has played half a season for MU. Has he been a disappointment so far? I would say yes, but everyone's expectations were different for him coming in. Would I take a semester of Harry over 4 years of Ooze or 6 years of Otule? No. But lets wait until he's played more than a full season at the same program to start comparing him to bigs that were with the program for years.
Quote from: tower912 on March 06, 2018, 08:35:50 AM
We will just have to disagree.
So you're dug in that game minutes are the only important metric in measuring experience? That the March of freshman year verson of Greg Elliott is basically just as experienced as November of junior year Frank Kaminsky? And that a redshirt player should not be expected to be a better and stronger player after his year off?
Fair enough. I made my points. You don't have to agree with them.
Quote from: tower912 on March 06, 2018, 05:37:44 AM
So, when Eke is not excelling by March next year, will you not accept that he is basically a freshman?
There might be a myriad of reasons that Ike isn't excelling by March of next year that have nothing to do with age or experience (ability?). But since he was injured I wouldn't expect him to benefit from a redshirt year as much as most.
We could really use harry next year. I think he was pressing early, wanting to live up to the quiet hype. If he coulda drained his first few 3's, took a few charges, throw down a big O board over trevon, make the no-look pass to ge breaking to the basket...ya know what i mean.
GIVE IT TO THE BIG FELLA
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 06, 2018, 07:12:57 AM
Maybe flights to Australia are cheaper via NYC.
Well done.
Quote from: Benny B on March 06, 2018, 08:35:40 AM
The "don't shoot the messenger" defense only works when delivering what you believe to be a truthful message in good faith.
Even though you knew this was a rumor and clearly disclosed the same, it was dangerously close to the line between "innocuous rumor," e.g. Crean's getting a new tanning bed for the hyperbaric chamber, and "incendiary rumor," e.g. blank blank and blank kicked a bunch of puppies on their way to a grade school gang rape. In other words, nobody cares if the former isn't true, but even if proven false, the latter can have damaging consequences.
Granted, the harm here is minimal (if any), but my friendly recommendation is to tread more cautiously next time when proposing rumors involving the careers of 18-22 year old students.
Or at least try to verify your source.
You know, I've never liked blank, blank OR blank. All three of them ... devil's children. I wouldn't be surprised if each had 2-2-2 on his head!
MUBB trolling
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/971066993469218818
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on March 06, 2018, 11:14:57 AM
MUBB trolling
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/971066993469218818
Oh God, Wojo has his team running offensive sets against no defense in practice? These guys will be in for quite a surprise tomorrow.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 06, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Oh God, Wojo has his team running offensive sets against no defense in practice? These guys will be in for quite a surprise tomorrow.
With the way we defend, would it matter if people were there? Wojo saving the team's energy.
A number of Marquette fans have done a disservice to Froling with the rumor mill working overtime on this message board. The team and the young man don't need the distraction. Like most of us he's a work in progress. With the help of the Marquette staff he has gotten healthy and reshaped his body. He has the potential to be a difference maker in the post season -- after that his future is up to him and we should wish him the best whether it's playing college ball or as a pro.
Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on March 06, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
A number of Marquette fans have done a disservice to Froling with the rumor mill working overtime on this message board. The team and the young man don't need the distraction. Like most of us he's a work in progress. With the help of the Marquette staff he has gotten healthy and reshaped his body. He has the potential to be a difference maker in the post season -- after that his future is up to him and we should wish him the best whether it's playing college ball or as a pro.
How can a thread on a message board possibly be a distraction to the team? Come on, this doesn't mean anything to the coaches or the players. I'm sure most don't even know this site exists. If this was being broadcast on ESPN or FS1, sure, that cold be a distraction, but a bunch of fans talking about rumors online is a complete non-issue for Harry, Wojo, or the team.
If a post on Scoop is a "distraction" to the team, then the team has deeper problems than we realize.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 06, 2018, 11:37:41 AM
If a post on Scoop is a "distraction" to the team, then the team has deeper problems than we realize.
That was my first thought too.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 06, 2018, 11:37:41 AM
If a post on Scoop is a "distraction" to the team, then the team has deeper problems than we realize.
Exactly. Perhaps the best strategy at this point is to simply allow it to fade into history. That's my plan. :)
Quote from: #bansultan on March 06, 2018, 11:37:41 AM
If a post on Scoop is a "distraction" to the team, then the team has deeper problems than we realize.
I don't think the thread is a "distraction" to the team persay, but there is really no need for it to be here. I do think that the players are probably aware of Scoop. There has also been some chatter about it on twitter. Its pure conjecture and really no need for it. We know Harry reads twitter, and has even responded to people badmouthing him on there. I'd hate for the kid to get swayed one way or another over a bunch of dudes talking about how its not a loss if he transfers or leaves. I would hope that wouldn't be the case, but these are 18-21 year old kids.
As others have said, and I have previously, I hope Harry sticks around. He could be a key contributor on this team the next two seasons. There is really nothing out there that suggests he has 1 foot out the door, and DB has even squashed it. I don't run the board, but I would have deleted this thread yesterday when it become clear the OP was given some bad intel.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 06, 2018, 08:42:57 AM
I don't really get the comparison between big men. Harry is a completely different type of player with a different skillset that has played half a season for MU. Has he been a disappointment so far? I would say yes, but everyone's expectations were different for him coming in. Would I take a semester of Harry over 4 years of Ooze or 6 years of Otule? No. But lets wait until he's played more than a full season at the same program to start comparing him to bigs that were with the program for years.
Wait, I thought Otule was tenured and still on the team.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 06, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
Oh God, Wojo has his team running offensive sets against no defense in practice? These guys will be in for quite a surprise tomorrow.
I hope this is teal
Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on March 06, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
A number of Marquette fans have done a disservice to Froling with the rumor mill working overtime on this message board. The team and the young man don't need the distraction. Like most of us he's a work in progress. With the help of the Marquette staff he has gotten healthy and reshaped his body. He has the potential to be a difference maker in the post season -- after that his future is up to him and we should wish him the best whether it's playing college ball or as a pro.
😂😂😂😂😂😂
A dozen or so people post in a random message board about a supposed rumor, to which the vast majority respond that they hope the player stays ir that he might be going pro or that he might be better than some multiple years starters with conference shampionship rings or that he may just need to buckle down n keep his nose to the grindstone for the next 24 months in anticipation of better results
Agreed if this is causing a distraction to MU bball than they have much thinner skin than i could of ever imagined and Wojo would need to go along with the rest of the team.
Alas, this is, im virtually certain, not even on the teams radar .
If they are aware of it im sure this tulsas post got the greatest laugh 😂😂😂😂😂
Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on March 06, 2018, 11:30:13 AM
A number of Marquette fans have done a disservice to Froling with the rumor mill working overtime on this message board. The team and the young man don't need the distraction. Like most of us he's a work in progress. With the help of the Marquette staff he has gotten healthy and reshaped his body. He has the potential to be a difference maker in the post season -- after that his future is up to him and we should wish him the best whether it's playing college ball or as a pro.
Lighten up on the starch
Quote from: News: Hagans dreams MU on March 06, 2018, 01:27:51 PM
I hope this is teal
I couldn't find the "very teal" font color for the message you quoted. Don't worry, it was very much a joke.
That is genius! Let's go onto the DePaul and Nova boards and start threads about there players transferring/going to the draft. Sabotage!!
Quote from: LoudMouthHagans on March 06, 2018, 04:09:58 PM
That is genius! Let's go onto the DePaul and Nova boards and start threads about there players transferring/going to the draft. Sabotage!!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xem7ZlZ2DOYqpG0/giphy.gif)
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 06, 2018, 11:44:56 AM
I don't think the thread is a "distraction" to the team persay, but there is really no need for it to be here. I do think that the players are probably aware of Scoop. There has also been some chatter about it on twitter. Its pure conjecture and really no need for it. We know Harry reads twitter, and has even responded to people badmouthing him on there. I'd hate for the kid to get swayed one way or another over a bunch of dudes talking about how its not a loss if he transfers or leaves. I would hope that wouldn't be the case, but these are 18-21 year old kids.
As others have said, and I have previously, I hope Harry sticks around. He could be a key contributor on this team the next two seasons. There is really nothing out there that suggests he has 1 foot out the door, and DB has even squashed it. I don't run the board, but I would have deleted this thread yesterday when it become clear the OP was given some bad intel.
Give me a break. Give me two breaks.
There is a low probability that they are aware of this board. However, being aware that something exists (as low a probability as it is) and then literally reading every last thread/comment daily is a galactic jump to take... Which is what you're suggesting. Harry could not give a damn about whether you specifically wish his feelings are OK or not, or whichever Scoop user is being critical of him or not.
This thread is perfectly acceptable material for a forum such as Scoop. It was a reasonable topic and likely has some level of truth behind it, besides the fact that the semantics were incorrect. We have seen all kinds of insane rumors come along on this forum which had no basis in reality at all and they are enshrined in the history of scoop itself.
Do you just think that Harry has a lot of feelings, and you're worried about that? Or what?
Quote from: yetipro on March 06, 2018, 05:12:11 PM
Give me a break. Give me two breaks.
There is a low probability that they are aware of this board. However, being aware that something exists (as low a probability as it is) and then literally reading every last thread/comment daily is a galactic jump to take... Which is what you're suggesting. Harry could not give a damn about whether you specifically wish his feelings are OK or not, or whichever Scoop user is being critical of him or not.
This thread is perfectly acceptable material for a forum such as Scoop. It was a reasonable topic and likely has some level of truth behind it, besides the fact that the semantics were incorrect. We have seen all kinds of insane rumors come along on this forum which had no basis in reality at all and they are enshrined in the history of scoop itself.
Do you just think that Harry has a lot of feelings, and you're worried about that? Or what?
1. They're aware of the board. It's been referenced by parents of players, among others.
2. It's exceptionally unlikely a stupid thread about a stupid rumor has any impact on the team.
3. No, it's not a reasonable topic and there appears to be no level of truth to it. Starting and/or spreading unfounded rumors that cast a 19-year-old college student in a bad light - all while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet - is bullsh*t.
Quote from: yetipro on March 06, 2018, 05:12:11 PM
Give me a break. Give me two breaks.
There is a low probability that they are aware of this board. However, being aware that something exists (as low a probability as it is) and then literally reading every last thread/comment daily is a galactic jump to take... Which is what you're suggesting. Harry could not give a damn about whether you specifically wish his feelings are OK or not, or whichever Scoop user is being critical of him or not.
This thread is perfectly acceptable material for a forum such as Scoop. It was a reasonable topic and likely has some level of truth behind it, besides the fact that the semantics were incorrect. We have seen all kinds of insane rumors come along on this forum which had no basis in reality at all and they are enshrined in the history of scoop itself.
Do you just think that Harry has a lot of feelings, and you're worried about that? Or what?
Lol.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 06, 2018, 05:18:51 PM
1. They're aware of the board. It's been referenced by parents of players, among others.
2. It's exceptionally unlikely a stupid thread about a stupid rumor has any impact on the team.
3. No, it's not a reasonable topic and there appears to be no level of truth to it. Starting and/or spreading unfounded rumors that cast a 19-year-old college student in a bad light - all while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet - is bullsh*t.
He pretty much addressed it.
Ding ding ding! Nailed it.
As y'all know, I'm a generally positive Scooper who is bullish on Wojo and the future of the program.
Having said that ...
We shouldn't avoid discussing things just because it might hurt a player's feelings or a parent's feelings or a coach's feelings.
If Scoop is a "distraction," we deserve to lose.
And having said that ...
This is a stupid thread that probably should never have started.
I hope Harry stays for next season. There is potential there. But if he doesn't, next man up.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 06, 2018, 05:18:51 PM
1. They're aware of the board. It's been referenced by parents of players, among others.
2. It's exceptionally unlikely a stupid thread about a stupid rumor has any impact on the team.
3. No, it's not a reasonable topic and there appears to be no level of truth to it. Starting and/or spreading unfounded rumors that cast a 19-year-old college student in a bad light - all while hiding behind the anonymity of the internet - is bullsh*t.
Have you even read the contents of this thread? Majority of people seem to think he will leave at the end of the season or have "heard something similar". I think the OP got a little over-excited and made an honest mistake in how he described it, surely, but... Didn't he use the word "Rumor" as the first word in the thread's title? It's still more likely than not that Harry's status with the team will be changing in a few weeks, there have been legitimate press stories about this all over the place.
Surely, if his feelings are hurt, they are probably more hurt by the national/international stories on this matter than some post on an internet forum. But I can hardly imagine he's too depressed because surely he will be a decently well-paid professional in Australia and live out his dreams.
What about the Shaka rumors? What about the Buzz has the team manager flush the toilet when he takes a wicked dump rumors? You could write a book on all the rumors that started and ended on this website. I'm not sure where you distinguish one rumor as BS cowardice and the other as harmless internet forum banter.
There are a lot of things in the world to get upset about these days, not sure this harmless thread registers too high.
As long as the rumors are passed on with the understanding that they are rumors it's fine.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 06, 2018, 06:47:56 PM
As long as the rumors are passed on with the understanding that they are rumors it's fine.
I guess we can ignore all those rumors about Sultan.... ;)
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 06, 2018, 07:03:24 PM
I guess we can ignore all those rumors about Sultan.... ;)
If they are in any way juicy, they are most assuredly false.
When has scoop been referenced by players?? just wondering
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 06, 2018, 07:46:40 PM
When has scoop been referenced by players?? just wondering
Rumor I heard was Morrow was at Murph's last week screaming "BAN SULTAN" over and over
I don't believe "everybody" has heard he is leaving. If anything, "everybody" has read the same article that is just uninformed speculation on what he might do next year. Just because - wait for it, floorslapper - he didn't get the playing time someone else thought he should have had.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 06, 2018, 07:17:29 PM
If they are in any way juicy, they are most assuredly false.
Yeah, Sultan is just a dull aging guy...
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 06, 2018, 07:46:40 PM
When has scoop been referenced by players?? just wondering
I think years ago the Wisconsin board got on Vanders case and it had some impact on him eventually committing to MU.
Also, I remember quite a few years ago someone from MU compliance posted on this board.
In addition there have been several parents and relatives of kids on the team posting ( Sargent Schultz defense here)
In all seriousness, there was some buzz at the Al on Monday about HF rumors. Got a text from a pal who works there. Turns out the buzz, and this thread too, were wrong.
Just noticed thread title change. Thanks to whoever.
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 06, 2018, 07:46:40 PM
When has scoop been referenced by players?? just wondering
Magic Dawson's brother used to post here.
Quote from: BallBoy on March 07, 2018, 06:50:13 AM
Magic Dawson's brother used to post here.
I think it was his dad.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2018, 06:51:24 AM
I think it was his dad.
Dad for sure. I think it may have been both, though.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 06, 2018, 10:13:24 PM
Also, I remember quite a few years ago someone from MU compliance posted on this board.
I don't remember compliance, but I remember a post from an individual in the Athletic's Communication group.
Quote from: yetipro on March 06, 2018, 06:46:12 PM
Have you even read the contents of this thread? Majority of people seem to think he will leave at the end of the season or have "heard something similar". I think the OP got a little over-excited and made an honest mistake in how he described it, surely, but... Didn't he use the word "Rumor" as the first word in the thread's title? It's still more likely than not that Harry's status with the team will be changing in a few weeks, there have been legitimate press stories about this all over the place.
There's a HUGE difference between a kid deciding to leave at the end of the season and saying he committed some misdeed so awful that he had to be kicked off the team immediately before the conference (and hopefully NCAA, or at least NIT) tournament.
These things are not similar at all. It's the difference between leaving your workplace for a new job and being fired for embezzlement.
Could you link to some of these legitimate press stories saying Harry is leaving?
Quote
What about the Shaka rumors? What about the Buzz has the team manager flush the toilet when he takes a wicked dump rumors? You could write a book on all the rumors that started and ended on this website. I'm not sure where you distinguish one rumor as BS cowardice and the other as harmless internet forum banter.
I distinguish when the phony rumor accuses a kid of an offense so serious that the coaching staff has to immediately kick him off the team.
You can't possibly be so obtuse not to understand the difference between a coaching rumor and a rumor that attacks the reputation of a player.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 07, 2018, 08:18:30 AM
I distinguish when the phony rumor accuses a kid of an offense so serious that the coaching staff has to immediately kick him off the team.
You can't possibly be so obtuse not to understand the difference between a coaching rumor and a rumor that attacks the reputation of a player.
Even though the rumor was that he was dismissed, there was little to no speculation about what it could be. People weren't saying he could be a thief or a cheater or anything along those lines. The original post was just an interesting, possibly believable, story that someone shared with Scoop. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think there was any ill will in the original post or any of the rest of the thread. This doesn't need to be inflated into something it never was.
By all means, if Harry had been accused of doing something awful that was just a rumor, sure, keep that stuff away. But this is very tame stuff here. No harm, no foul.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2018, 06:51:24 AM
I think it was his dad.
Yes and another family member (I do not recall if he ever said what was the relationship).
Quote from: News: Hagans dreams MU on March 07, 2018, 08:35:19 AM
Yes and another family member (I do not recall if he ever said what was the relationship).
It was Nevada something was the cousin and DDDawson was his Dad if I recall.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 07, 2018, 08:41:20 AM
It was Nevada something was the cousin and DDDawson was his Dad if I recall.
DJ Newbill had PhillyCoach and that "reporter" friend who were on here too.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 07, 2018, 08:41:20 AM
It was Nevada something was the cousin and DDDawson was his Dad if I recall.
Yep you're correct and he did come back couple of times to congratulate team on wins while that core of players was still on the team
Wasn't good old Tim Maymon rumored to be on here too?
Quote from: MU B2002 on March 07, 2018, 07:29:40 AM
I don't remember compliance, but I remember a post from an individual in the Athletic's Communication group.
MU compliance posted when an MU alumni created a promo video for DJ Newbill and posted it to the site. The intent was to give the community insight into a committed kid's capabilities but was a impermissible benefit.
If a family member hangs out at a board like this ... that's on them.
And as we saw when some posted what folks were saying on the Creighton board, we're relative mild here!
Count me as one that found the thread unnecessary. My reasoning was the title. When someone says dismissed, that implies the kid did something wrong. Words are important, and that word was not needed. It's a message board, rumors happen, but it would have been much easier to swallow if the thread said RUMOR: Froling may not return next year. Completely different tone, same outcome.
I hope the young man stays, but it wasn't necessary to imply he was dismissed which implied Wojo or staff were pissed at him, or the kid did something wrong (not a team player, committed a violation, or something else).
And Froling over Merritt? Did I read that correctly?
Quote from: skianth16 on March 07, 2018, 08:25:18 AM
Even though the rumor was that he was dismissed, there was little to no speculation about what it could be. People weren't saying he could be a thief or a cheater or anything along those lines. The original post was just an interesting, possibly believable, story that someone shared with Scoop. Nothing more, nothing less. I don't think there was any ill will in the original post or any of the rest of the thread. This doesn't need to be inflated into something it never was.
By all means, if Harry had been accused of doing something awful that was just a rumor, sure, keep that stuff away. But this is very tame stuff here. No harm, no foul.
I think it's well implied within the rumor that he must have done something pretty bad to be kicked off the team immediately just as the team heads into tournament season (when depth is, you know, kind of important). You don't skip past a benching and/or suspension and go right to booting a kid off the team because he was late for a film session or dogged it during a rebounding drill.
People are free to disagree with me here. I just think it was a sh*tty and unnecessary post.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 07, 2018, 08:52:07 AM
Wasn't good old Tim Maymon rumored to be on here too?
Common mistake. That's just 4ever. He's a dentist.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 07, 2018, 10:39:18 AM
Common mistake. That's just 4ever. He's a dentist.
Now THAT is funny.
Here's the thing-Harry-if you or any acquaintance or family member, cousins, step aunts and uncles, grandparents are reading this, we want you back dude. Just relax and play your game!
Does anyone have any pictures of Dawson's family members posting? i wasn't on here then
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on March 07, 2018, 12:12:18 PM
Does anyone have any pictures of Dawson's family members posting? i wasn't on here then
User name was Nevada233 last logged in October 2017