(debunked) Rumor: Froling Dismissed from Team

[drewm88]

I think have forgotten how frustrating Merritt was without Jackson next to him.  For me, the most frustrating player this century from an expectation  versus results perspective.  So, I concede from a purely objective standpoint, he was better than Harry.  I would still take Harry over Ooze.

Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.

[skianth16]

Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.

I remember seeing him dressed in a pretty solid Flava Flav costume at a Halloween party one year. I became a much bigger fan after that.

[🏀]

Don't fault Jamil because your expectations were too high.  He was a solid player.

Very solid, but had a higher ceiling. He eventually reached that ceiling, frustrating it wasn't here.

RSCI top 40.

[GGGG]

Very solid, but had a higher ceiling. He eventually reached that ceiling, frustrating it wasn't here.

RSCI top 40.

Right he was RSCI 40.  If you look at those around him on the 2009 list, he performed better than most of them.  (Not all of them by any means.)

The problem was that he was a top ten player as a sophomore in HS and we were basing our expectations on that.  He ended up just a few spots ahead of Junior.

[D'Lo Brown]

Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....

As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.

Heading into the start of his Junior year, Frank Kaminsky had logged about 600 minutes in his college career, which is right about where Greg will be after Wednesday or Thursday night. Are you going to tell me that you think Greg Elliott, on March 8 of his freshman year is basically the same as Frank Kaminsky on November 1 of his junior year?

If Harry was playing well, we wouldn't hear this line trotted out so regularly, but since he's underperformed expectations, it's become over-used crutch for the overly-optimistic-on-Harry camp.

Good points.

It's a fallacy that cuts across all sports really. When the team's results are mixed, fans tend to clamor for the guy at the end of the bench and say that the coaches should use that player more, or that they misused that player. Generally speaking, the player actually deserved to be at the end of the bench, and there wasn't some sort of coaching conspiracy or misevaluation.

We witnessed a great example of it on this forum, obviously, with the epic rise and fall of one Harry Froling.

IDK if it's hashed out in the DSM but the phenomenon definitely exists.

[Jay Bee]

FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.

[Nukem2]

FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.

I do too.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....

As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.

Heading into the start of his Junior year, Frank Kaminsky had logged about 600 minutes in his college career, which is right about where Greg will be after Wednesday or Thursday night. Are you going to tell me that you think Greg Elliott, on March 8 of his freshman year is basically the same as Frank Kaminsky on November 1 of his junior year?

If Harry was playing well, we wouldn't hear this line trotted out so regularly, but since he's underperformed expectations, it's become over-used crutch for the overly-optimistic-on-Harry camp.

I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.

[skianth16]

I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.

I think that's all pretty reasonable. We can agree on the above.

[mr.MUskie]

FWIW, I'd like Harry here next year. Very much so.

Agree.

[MU82]

I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.

Only a few here "see what's so wrong about that," JJJJJ. I certainly agree with you.

But Harry might be one who sees something wrong with that.

And his is the only vote that counts.

[🏀]

Right he was RSCI 40.  If you look at those around him on the 2009 list, he performed better than most of them.  (Not all of them by any means.)

The problem was that he was a top ten player as a sophomore in HS and we were basing our expectations on that.  He ended up just a few spots ahead of Junior.

Completely agree, did you see Kawhi? I know you saw Kawhi.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

I am not overly optimistic about Harry. But I think he has the capability to be the type of guy as an upperclassman big you play in noncon and wonder how in hell that guy ended up at that school. He has talent, he is raw and he's pretty poor defensively. But I'd love for him to stick around. Having upperclassmen depth is an important part of a lot of really good teams. There is still time for development. Don't see what's so wrong about that.

Agree

[GGGG]

Completely agree, did you see Kawhi? I know you saw Kawhi.

Yep!

[NCMUFan]

Wood knot bee outta nowhere, were it true. Got da Wojo heave ho, aina?

Dude, please translate?

[tower912]

Sure, but he has 365 more days of practice and strength training at the collegiate level than all 3, so....

As I've said all year long in response to the "Harry's basically a freshman" argument, if guys don't get better in a year of practicing without playing in games, why would a coach ever redshirt a player? Based on the minutes/games played standard, then there are a ton of juniors out there who are basically just freshmen, even some seniors.

So, when Eke is not excelling by March next year, will you not accept that he is basically a freshman?

[lawdog77]

Harry is in New York with the team.  He clearly was not dismissed.

Maybe flights to Australia are cheaper via NYC.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Can someone please change the thread title?

[Newsdreams]

Dude, please translate?

Got you covered= Would not be out of nowhere, got Poleaxed.

[peterpan]

Can someone please change the thread title?

OP source had junk info. Being "dismissed" is completely different than "might not return next season."

[Floorslapper]

Smh totally agree
All three were 3 yr starters on extremely good teams for the bulk of their tenure.  All three of them were starting n significant contributors during this point in their sophomore years.  And its being discussed that harry who cant get off the bench behind lesser player than the three aformentuoned, yet tower would take harry?!
Lay off the crack

Anyone who would put Harry above Merritt or Ooze on the hierarchy of MU big men, well, let's just say, that's one absurd, hot take.

Harry has some skills, yet he's at least another year away of major strength and conditioning work away from being a contributor.  Below the rim player at 6'10" just doesn't scream high major big man.

[skianth16]

So, when Eke is not excelling by March next year, will you not accept that he is basically a freshman?

Let's start that one with if and not when, for one thing. I think Ike should be well ahead of the typical incoming freshman. I think all redshirt freshmen should be. So no, I won't say he's basically a freshman. I'll say he's a resdshirt guy and had a year to get bigger and better.

In my example above, comparing freshman year Greg to Junior year Kaminsky - would you say they're basically in the same place?

[tower912]

Ooze was the best. Nicest dude. Funny too.

I don't dislike Ooze.    And for several years, he was the best big man that MU had.     But it cannot be argued that he had great numbers.   
https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/ousmane_barro

It is my contention that if Froling was forced to be the featured big man, a la Ooze or Luke, his numbers over 4 years would be better than Ooze's.    Which is a low bar.       

Merritt..... ok.    Conceded.   

[Benny B]

With no official announcement, I sort of suspect the message got scrambled when getting relayed to multiple people.

My guess is that he's made it known within the program that he's going to play pro-ball in Australia seem feasible.

I can certainly see how that message could change to "dismissed from the team" in a game of telephone. I'm going to hold off on changing the name of the thread until after the typical 5 pm news dump time period.

The "don't shoot the messenger" defense only works when delivering what you believe to be a truthful message in good faith.

Even though you knew this was a rumor and clearly disclosed the same, it was dangerously close to the line between "innocuous rumor," e.g. Crean's getting a new tanning bed for the hyperbaric chamber, and "incendiary rumor," e.g. blank blank and blank kicked a bunch of puppies on their way to a grade school gang rape.  In other words, nobody cares if the former isn't true, but even if proven false, the latter can have damaging consequences. 

Granted, the harm here is minimal (if any), but my friendly recommendation is to tread more cautiously next time when proposing rumors involving the careers of 18-22 year old students. 

Or at least try to verify your source.   

[tower912]

Let's start that one with if and not when, for one thing. I think Ike should be well ahead of the typical incoming freshman. I think all redshirt freshmen should be. So no, I won't say he's basically a freshman. I'll say he's a resdshirt guy and had a year to get bigger and better.

In my example above, comparing freshman year Greg to Junior year Kaminsky - would you say they're basically in the same place?

We will just have to disagree.    And I don't expect Greg to be the National Player of the year in 2 years.