I'm tuning in from overseas. I hear from those in attendance Froling isn't even in the building. Coach's decision?
Any news?
He's on the bench
OK. Thanks.
Is he hurt, sick, or in the dog house?
Bad matchup. SJU much more athletic up front.
Quote from: murara1994 on February 21, 2018, 09:21:09 PM
Sucks?
Yes, it sucks that he's sick, hurt, or in the dog house.
Has played himself to the back of the rotation. Didn't need frontcourt depth tonight.
Is curious that he went from starting a few weeks ago to the following:
@SJU 11 mins
@ Creighton 6 mins
SJU DNP-CD
It's almost a two week stretch in real time, if he was hurt I'd guess we'd have heard by now.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 21, 2018, 09:25:18 PM
Has played himself to the back of the rotation. Didn't need frontcourt depth tonight.
I agree TAMU
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 21, 2018, 09:25:18 PM
Has played himself to the back of the rotation. Didn't need frontcourt depth tonight.
This. And nothing more.
Mentioned this before the game - Needed to see a lot of Elliott, Cain, and Theo. Some Matt. No Harry. Harry needs another year of strength and conditioning work to become serviceable.
Needed Theo John when we played the Johnnies at home.Seemed like he only played about 15 minutes, but having a tough body in there made a difference.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 21, 2018, 09:28:31 PM
This. And nothing more.
Mentioned this before the game - Needed to see a lot of Elliott, Cain, and Theo. Some Matt. No Harry. Harry needs another year of strength and conditioning work to become serviceable.
This. I actually give Wojo credit. Froling is too slow defensively as evidenced the first time we played them. Late in the year, best to shorten the bench and play those most likely to help you win
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 21, 2018, 09:28:31 PM
This. And nothing more.
Mentioned this before the game - Needed to see a lot of Elliott, Cain, and Theo. Some Matt. No Harry. Harry needs another year of strength and conditioning work to become serviceable.
Some Matt? 10 rebound, 30 minute Matt? Geez, the poor guy can't even get any respect when he has a decent game.
Good games by matt n harry, the only thing that still dumbfounds me is how Wojo saw Froling as a starter??!!!
Quote from: skianth16 on February 21, 2018, 10:07:17 PM
Some Matt? 10 rebound, 30 minute Matt? Geez, the poor guy can't even get any respect when he has a decent game.
Ha. That was pregame hope for this game. Personally I would have preferred Theo to play more than 11 - say 22, and Matt around 19. But, Matt works hard and earns minutes as he is pretty solid defensively.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 21, 2018, 10:07:17 PM
Some Matt? 10 rebound, 30 minute Matt? Geez, the poor guy can't even get any respect when he has a decent game.
Matt also has one of the strangest stats of the season: after dropping in a pair tonight, he's 24-27 (89%) from the line.
Quote from: chapman on February 21, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Matt also has one of the strangest stats of the season: after dropping in a pair tonight, he's 24-27 (89%) from the line.
Hes alot better than most people give him credit for. Hes is not an offensive juggernaut but does a lot of things very well
Quote from: chapman on February 21, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Matt also has one of the strangest stats of the season: after dropping in a pair tonight, he's 24-27 (89%) from the line.
I leaned over to my wife tonight and started to say "Matt is one of the best free throw shooting big men I've seen at Marquette in a long time"...
...then I remembered Davante
For his own development, I am glad Harry didn't play tonight. The Johnnies are simply too athletic for him to compete well against. Harry has some strengths in that he has a good nose for rebounds and some decent inside passing vision. There will be other games where he will be more effective. My general assessment is that he will do very well against the cupcakes, but be challenged by the more athletic teams in conference. He was a very enthusiastic supporter of his teammates, so glad he is on the team. Harry will have a couple of positive moments between now and the end of the season in the right situations for him to compete .
He'll be back, give him some time. He will make some big contributions for this program. It is like those that say we are better without Rowsey, or better without Howard (who is still 18 friggin years old). This team is going to be a blast to watch next year. An absolute blast.
I wish he had red shirted the entire year, so he could have saved a year of eligibility and started fresh next fall as a RS Soph. Too slow and too far behind at this point of the season.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 21, 2018, 10:40:45 PM
I leaned over to my wife tonight and started to say "Matt is one of the best free throw shooting big men I've seen at Marquette in a long time"...
...then I remembered Davante
Untill davantes senior year?
Froling will be fine, but he has looked clueless during conference play. He really should have been redshirted to begin next year with pre-league games to get acclimated. However, in December there was nothing to indicate Theo John would come on this strong. He had some of the best post moves I've seen at MU in a while.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on February 21, 2018, 10:40:45 PM
I leaned over to my wife tonight and started to say "Matt is one of the best free throw shooting big men I've seen at Marquette in a long time"...
...then I remembered Davante
Davante was never this good. His season best FT% was 83.5%. Very good, elite for a big man. But Matt would school him in a free throw shooting contest.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 21, 2018, 11:33:09 PM
Untill davantes senior year?
Actually his senior year was his second best. 78.1% is good for any player. Great for a big man.
Whose coaching up the big men on our roster, Stan?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2018, 12:47:50 AM
Davante was never this good. His season best FT% was 83.5%. Very good, elite for a big man. But Matt would school him in a free throw shooting contest.
Sample size matta. The Ox attempted 544 free throws in four years. In three years, Matt has been to the line 70 times. He also only shot in the 50s each of the last two years.
Theo saw Froling and said, that's what I don't want to do, put me in coach, I'm ready to play eyna?
Harry has a lot of work to do to become a meaningful contributor next year. And the bench will get longer, not shorter.
My guess is Davant took way more FTs than Heldt does.
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 06:13:18 AM
Harry has a lot of work to do to become a meaningful contributor next year. And the bench will get longer, not shorter.
Agree. He minutes are very limited now and next year it will be much tougher.
Quote from: Norm on February 22, 2018, 06:41:45 AM
My guess is Davant took way more FTs than Heldt does.
Absolutely. But it's not like Matty has 15 attempts this year. In end game situations on an inbound, I sure don't mind the ball going into his hands if the 5 second clock is winding down. For a Center, he's one helluva free throw shooter.
Just for a moment think back a mere 24 months. Honestly, has any MU player improved his overall game more? Personally, I think not.
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 06:13:18 AM
Harry has a lot of work to do to become a meaningful contributor next year. And the bench will get longer, not shorter.
Yes it will be tough. He was not an obvious impact player when he became elegibility. Like was more so by far.. next year you have senior Matt, sophomore Theo and Eke in the mix, as well as Morrow and Bailey at the 4 with Sacar, Joey etc. Lot of traffic where he plays....
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 09:25:59 AM
Absolutely. But it's not like Matty has 15 attempts this year. In end game situations on an inbound, I sure don't mind the ball going into his hands if the 5 second clock is winding down. For a Center, he's one helluva free throw shooter.
Just for a moment think back a mere 24 months. Honestly, has any MU player improved his overall game more? Personally, I think not.
To be fair, there's only two current players on the roster who were eligible 24 months ago. The other is Sacar, who has obviously improved as well.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 22, 2018, 09:33:45 AM
To be fair, there's only two current players on the roster who were eligible 24 months ago. The other is Sacar, who has obviously improved as well.
True dat. I'm just thinking back to his getting 4 fouls on 4 screens on his 4 trips down the court. :)
Quote from: AZMarqfan on February 21, 2018, 11:56:34 PM
However, in December there was nothing to indicate Theo John would come on this strong.
This is a very good point. We were desperate for another big because Theo's foul rate was such that it certainly looked likely that we wouldn't even have enough big bodies to fill the minutes in conference play. Despite his underperforming expectations by quite a bit, Froling has still filled a void at times that might have cost us a game or two along the way, and at this point with where we stand, every W is huge.
A lot of incorrect recent posts here as wojo and staff are poor at developing players
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 09:25:59 AM
Absolutely. But it's not like Matty has 15 attempts this year. In end game situations on an inbound, I sure don't mind the ball going into his hands if the 5 second clock is winding down. For a Center, he's one helluva free throw shooter.
Just for a moment think back a mere 24 months. Honestly, has any MU player improved his overall game more? Personally, I think not.
My question about Matt is. He has proven he can shoot free throws, why not set a play up for him at the free throw line for an open shot. I would believe he would
be wide open, take advantage of his strength. Matt is a great complimentary player, sets picks, rebounds, and does what he is asked to do. Like his movement on
the zone. Great teammate!
Quote from: DCHoopster on February 22, 2018, 10:29:26 AM
My question about Matt is. He has proven he can shoot free throws, why not set a play up for him at the free throw line for an open shot. I would believe he would
be wide open, take advantage of his strength. Matt is a great complimentary player, sets picks, rebounds, and does what he is asked to do. Like his movement on
the zone. Great teammate!
Was just about to post something similar. He's always been a decent shooter. Would be nice to add a pick and pop to his game .
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 06:13:18 AM
Harry has a lot of work to do to become a meaningful contributor next year. And the bench will get longer, not shorter.
There is that. Right now, Theo and matt are playing much better than Froling. Think Froling has the talent, but difficult to manage those minutes between those 3.
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 06:13:18 AM
Harry has a lot of work to do to become a meaningful contributor next year. And the bench will get longer, not shorter.
Yep. Maybe he will be ahead of Eke, but without some pretty dramatic improvement, I seriously doubt Harry will be ahead of Matt, Theo or Ed.
I think that Froling's second biggest problem right now (behind his lack of lateral quickness) is his confidence. He doesn't have any, and in this stretch of crucial games, he's not gonna get enough minutes to get any back. If we would have scheduled a buy game in Feb. like Creighton, and given him 25 minutes in that and give him a green light, he'd probably score 10-12 points, and even if it took a ton of shots, we'd still win and he'd get some confidence. I still maintain that he should get another summer, plus the entire non conference schedule next year before passing judgement on him.
Quote from: Markusquette on February 22, 2018, 10:32:38 AM
Was just about to post something similar. He's always been a decent shooter. Would be nice to add a pick and pop to his game .
A free throw is not the same thing as a 15-foot pick and pop jumper.
Quote from: chapman on February 21, 2018, 10:29:54 PM
Matt also has one of the strangest stats of the season: after dropping in a pair tonight, he's 24-27 (89%) from the line.
None bigger than the ones in Jersey!!!!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2018, 12:36:37 PM
Yep. Maybe he will be ahead of Eke, but without some pretty dramatic improvement, I seriously doubt Harry will be ahead of Matt, Theo or Ed.
Wait until you see 6'9" Joey next year. He is highly talented.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2018, 12:47:50 AM
Davante was never this good. His season best FT% was 83.5%. Very good, elite for a big man. But Matt would school him in a free throw shooting contest.
Actually his senior year was his second best. 78.1% is good for any player. Great for a big man.
No doubt 78% is good.
However it got lame imo his senior year when the crowd is chanting automatic and ur making 3 out of 4
Maybe Wojo is just letting him get a taste of the bench and some DNPs, see if he wants to sign up for a full year of that?
Regardless, Wojo definitely had no idea what he had in Harry and I'm surprised he put him on this crazy of a rollercoaster ride.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 22, 2018, 06:59:20 PM
Wait until you see 6'9" Joey next year. He is highly talented.
I don't question the talent, but I have always seen him listed as 6'6" or 6'7" and therefore he would be splitting minutes more with guys like Sam, Sacar, and Jamal.
Quote from: yetipro on February 22, 2018, 08:08:04 PM
Maybe Wojo is just letting him get a taste of the bench and some DNPs, see if he wants to sign up for a full year of that?
Regardless, Wojo definitely had no idea what he had in Harry and I'm surprised he put him on this crazy of a rollercoaster ride.
D1 sports are full of guys and gals who are tremendous practice players who have a hard time converting their good practice results into actual games. Some gain confidence and improve in the games, others never do. It is up to their coaches to figure out if it is the former or the latter. Sometimes there are highly coachable kids ,like Derrick Wilson, who can fool multiple sets of coaches to keep giving them chances with their great work ethic and practices.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 22, 2018, 10:03:16 PM
D1 sports are full of guys and gals who are tremendous practice players who have a hard time converting their good practice results into actual games. Some gain confidence and improve in the games, others never do. It is up to their coaches to figure out if it is the former or the latter. Sometimes there are highly coachable kids ,like Derrick Wilson, who can fool multiple sets of coaches to keep giving them chances with their great work ethic and practices.
Wow. Classy
Quote from: yetipro on February 22, 2018, 08:08:04 PM
Maybe Wojo is just letting him get a taste of the bench and some DNPs, see if he wants to sign up for a full year of that?
Regardless, Wojo definitely had no idea what he had in Harry and I'm surprised he put him on this crazy of a rollercoaster ride.
Wasn't the main reason he transferred out of SMU lack of pt? Is Wojo playing some kind games to get him to transfer out st end of season and open up a scholly?
Here we go with 'mind games' again. Harry didn't play because at no moment would his insertion into the lineup have enhanced our chance to win. And while 'player development' has its place in any program, it doesn't at this time of the year. Matty and Theo have nailed down first and second team. If Harry is unhappy with that fact, we haven't seen him express it and he has remained a good teammate as far as we can tell.
Harry has two choices. Improve until he finds a way to contribute (which might be over the summer here in MKE) or make the decision that the pastures are greener elsewhere. I hope he commits himself to getting more productive but if he can't see any path to playing time here with Marquette, he'll have options. And so it goes. This isn't grade school soccer with participation trophies. Carry on.
Wojo and the staff took a chance with Harry, after all players with his size are tough to get. Unfortunately, it is beginning to appear he may not have the skill set for BE play. He does seem to like the team and is engaged on the bench. Harry will decide for himself if he wants to try and improve and fight for minutes or move on. Right now he is option 3 for sure behind Matt and Theo.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 22, 2018, 10:03:16 PM
D1 sports are full of guys and gals who are tremendous practice players who have a hard time converting their good practice results into actual games. Some gain confidence and improve in the games, others never do. It is up to their coaches to figure out if it is the former or the latter. Sometimes there are highly coachable kids ,like Derrick Wilson, who can fool multiple sets of coaches to keep giving them chances with their great work ethic and practices.
I like to think you're Highly Coachable.
He has shown otherwise.
I think Harry has a good chance to be a solid player the next 2 years. He went through a huge body transformation within the last year and then had to miss the first part of the season. He shows potential but seems just a little off. His lack of endurance has been a factor and now we are in must win mode so minutes will be limited from here on out. I fully expect a much improved player next year who will make a positive impact and take Heldt's minutes at a minimum. I think he could be the perfect complementary front court player the next 2 years.
Quote from: tower912 on February 23, 2018, 10:05:24 AM
He has shown otherwise.
It was not meant to compliment.
My concern about Harry is not whether or not he will improve. He will. The question is where does he find minutes on next year's team.
Quote from: tower912 on February 23, 2018, 10:31:35 AM
My concern about Harry is not whether or not he will improve. He will. The question is where does he find minutes on next year's team.
Morrow and Joey Hauser are the only 2 newcomers that will see minutes next year and Joey might be less then most think. Ike is not getting off the bench and Bailey has too many players in front of him. Harry at 6'11" will see time on the floor if he sticks around.
His minutes can come from Heldt's minutes and an overall decrease in minutes from the starters. Not much of a decrease but there is 10-15 minutes there to be had.
Quote from: jsglow on February 23, 2018, 06:48:13 AM
Here we go with 'mind games' again. Harry didn't play because at no moment would his insertion into the lineup have enhanced our chance to win. And while 'player development' has its place in any program, it doesn't at this time of the year. Matty and Theo have nailed down first and second team. If Harry is unhappy with that fact, we haven't seen him express it and he has remained a good teammate as far as we can tell.
I agree with that assessment. Unfortunately, this isn't baseball, where you can keep a left hander around to throw against 2 guys a game and then sit him. If we have a player on our team that we can't put into games, the coaches really need to figure out how to address that problem. And then Harry is going to need to put in the same kind of work on changing his game this summer as he did into changing his body last summer. It's a tall task, but it's possible. Going with 2 bigs this year has had some nice results, so let's hope we can look to do some of that next year as well.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 23, 2018, 10:51:48 AM
I agree with that assessment. Unfortunately, this isn't baseball, where you can keep a left hander around to throw against 2 guys a game and then sit him. If we have a player on our team that we can't put into games, the coaches really need to figure out how to address that problem. And then Harry is going to need to put in the same kind of work on changing his game this summer as he did into changing his body last summer. It's a tall task, but it's possible. Going with 2 bigs this year has had some nice results, so let's hope we can look to do some of that next year as well.
I think we agree. And in this day and age, when you can get a 'big' into the program, you take it. Harry transformed his body last year. If he wants to play reasonable minutes next year at Marquette, he's going to have to elevate his game the same way. If he thinks he can't, he'll likely consider other options. For HIS sake, I hope he has a real heart to heart with Wojo when the season ends. I trust coach will tell him the truth as he sees it. Harry needs to not waste any time. So IF he were to decide to look elsewhere, Spring '18 is the right time. Two years of PT left.
All that said, he seems to be a great kid willing to work so I want him to stick around and earn his minutes.
I feel like we're all jumping to conclusions too much here. Froling is not a finished product. He's been on campus for about 14 months and playing real games for 2 of those.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 22, 2018, 07:19:20 PM
No doubt 78% is good.
However it got lame imo his senior year when the crowd is chanting automatic and ur making 3 out of 4
LOL, only 3 out of 4?
Quote from: 1SE on February 23, 2018, 01:53:44 AM
Wasn't the main reason he transferred out of SMU lack of pt? Is Wojo playing some kind games to get him to transfer out st end of season and open up a scholly?
Not really only pt. There was a coaching change they convinced him to stay. Was not happy how he was being developed. He has said the developing, facilities and staff are way better than SMU. Guess will have to wait.
Quote from: mufanatic on February 23, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
Morrow and Joey Hauser are the only 2 newcomers that will see minutes next year and Joey might be less then most think. Ike is not getting off the bench and Bailey has too many players in front of him. Harry at 6'11" will see time on the floor if he sticks around.
His minutes can come from Heldt's minutes and an overall decrease in minutes from the starters. Not much of a decrease but there is 10-15 minutes there to be had.
I don't know, if he is heathy and as good as those on the know say, he can come in for either Sam or Morrow, so there will be minutes for him.
Quote from: MUDish on February 21, 2018, 09:26:41 PM
Is curious that he went from starting a few weeks ago to the following:
@SJU 11 mins
@ Creighton 6 mins
SJU DNP-CD
It's almost a two week stretch in real time, if he was hurt I'd guess we'd have heard by now.
DPU DNP-CD
I wouldn't be shocked at this point if he's done at MU.
Quote from: MUDish on February 24, 2018, 01:07:02 PM
DPU DNP-CD
I wouldn't be shocked at this point if he's done at MU.
Yup. DePaul's size caused us issues today. He may have helped a little for a brief time today.
Quote from: MUDish on February 24, 2018, 01:07:02 PM
DPU DNP-CD
I wouldn't be shocked at this point if he's done at MU.
I was thinking the same thing.
Does any think Harry is homesick and told Wojo he is leaving?
Quote from: muwar2014@gmail.com on February 24, 2018, 01:14:03 PM
Does any think Harry is homesick and told Wojo he is leaving?
I've wondered the same thing.
Something else is going on. He is our best rebounder, and in a game when we need rebounds above all else, he was glued to the bench.
He is HORRIBLE, adios....get someone better. I would rather have Sam Hauser at the 5 next year then him
Wasn't Sandy Cohen in the same situation? Was parked on bench after poor play and never got back in games.
If he doesn't play much next year then stick around and become a big body practice player. Honestly, I'm happy if he doesn't see minutes next year. It means we recruited over him or someone else developed more then he did. Crap, last year people had me believing Sacar was garbage. He is progressing and improving. The sky was falling when Cheat left. It opened up minutes for Greg and Cain to develop. Those two make plays athletically that Cheat NEVER could make in a game. Next year and Harry doesn't play? I am hoping it is because Theo has drastically improved and cemented his spot. He has improved throughout this season with sealing in the post, finishing with actual dunks, blocking shots, and not getting bull dogged in the post defensively. I hope it is because Morrow becomes a double double machine. I hope it is because Joey Hauser can come in, post up and actually finish, shoot a three and actually make them instead of watching a stiff legged Harry chuck. I'm not a big Heldt fan. He is what he is. If Harry can't overtake Heldt then there is a problem. You can never have too many bigs, especially to practice.
Quote from: forgetful on February 24, 2018, 01:15:54 PM
I've wondered the same thing.
Something else is going on. He is our best rebounder, and in a game when we need rebounds above all else, he was glued to the bench.
Honestly, Froling moving on would probably be best for both him and MU. He's going to have a hard time getting minutes next year, and if he declares that he is leaving, it would give MU another opening to add a third and fourth guard to the imbalanced roster.
In postgame presser:
"Any reason Froling hasn't played last two games?"
Woj: "Other guys are playing better."
not buying it
Yeah, Cain played 7 minutes, 7.....
So, Elliott, Howard, Rowsey and Sacar played majority going up against much larger Depaul. 19 difference in rebounds, 19 to 6 offensive, and a 6ft 11 inch player sits on the bench and watches them get destroyed on glass. Had to be four Depaul possessions where they got at least 3 offensive rebounds and scored. Makes sense to me, others guess just playing better.
Something is going on here, no coach is that stupid after watching what happened during the game today.
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 24, 2018, 02:01:19 PM
not buying it
What aren't you buying? That other guys are playing better?
Quote from: nyg on February 24, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Yeah, Cain played 7 minutes, 7.....
So, Elliott, Howard, Rowsey and Sacar played majority going up against much larger Depaul. 19 difference in rebounds, 19 to 6 offensive, and a 6ft 11 inch player sits on the bench and watches them get destroyed on glass. Had to be four Depaul possessions where they got at least 3 offensive rebounds and scored. Makes sense to me, others guess just playing better.
Something is going on here, no coach is that stupid after watching what happened during the game today.
Lineups today were questionable. Just didn't make a lot of sense. It's frustrating to watch these "adjustments" after playing some well recently. I don't get it.
Quote from: nyg on February 24, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Yeah, Cain played 7 minutes, 7.....
So, Elliott, Howard, Rowsey and Sacar played majority going up against much larger Depaul. 19 difference in rebounds, 19 to 6 offensive, and a 6ft 11 inch player sits on the bench and watches them get destroyed on glass. Had to be four Depaul possessions where they got at least 3 offensive rebounds and scored. Makes sense to me, others guess just playing better.
Something is going on here, no coach is that stupid after watching what happened during the game today.
btw, our guards had 4 rebounds and their guards had 20........
Quote from: #bansultan on February 24, 2018, 02:21:01 PM
What aren't you buying? That other guys are playing better?
I am not buying that it is just that the other guys are playing better are you?
Did we essentially stop recruiting Epperson to get Frooling???
He gowne or should bee, hey?
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 24, 2018, 03:21:44 PM
I am not buying that it is just that the other guys are playing better are you?
Did we essentially stop recruiting Epperson to get Frooling???
What else would it be?
Quote from: nyg on February 24, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Yeah, Cain played 7 minutes, 7.....
So, Elliott, Howard, Rowsey and Sacar played majority going up against much larger Depaul. 19 difference in rebounds, 19 to 6 offensive, and a 6ft 11 inch player sits on the bench and watches them get destroyed on glass. Had to be four Depaul possessions where they got at least 3 offensive rebounds and scored. Makes sense to me, others guess just playing better.
Something is going on here, no coach is that stupid after watching what happened during the game today.
I was also puzzled. If ever there was a time where Froling might matter it's when you're getting your butt kicked on the boards. If he's not getting in this game, he's really been written off for the year.
If he cannot play one minute in today's game with the way Herldt and John played (not impressive) then it is something else. Do you think it is just the other guys are playing better yes or no?
Don't know if Epperson/Froling was an either/or, but Epperson has 11 and 6 against Nova right now. Meanwhile Froling can't get minutes vs DePaul
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 24, 2018, 03:33:05 PM
If he cannot play one minute in today's game with the way Herldt and John played (not impressive) then it is something else. Do you think it is just the other guys are playing better yes or no?
Yes. Clearly. Harry hasn't been good at all.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 24, 2018, 03:41:16 PM
Don't know if Epperson/Froling was an either/or, but Epperson has 11 and 6 against Nova right now. Meanwhile Froling can't get minutes vs DePaul
Exactly right. He led comeback against #3 team in country. Guess 12 points, 6 rebounds and 2 blocks.
Yet against DePaul, another powerhouse, Harry doesn't play a minute. Let's see, in a boot, lost weight, adjusting to BE play, blah, blah....Epperson a freshman who sat, been playing only month and a half and looks pretty darn good. No excuses for that kid.
So a wasted scholly? Great job Wojo. Glad with a top-10 college basketball budget you're able to field a grand total of 8 players of sufficient quality to see PT against DePaul in year 4 of your tenure. You know the NCAA gives you 13 right?
Quote from: nyg on February 24, 2018, 02:07:51 PM
Yeah, Cain played 7 minutes, 7.....
So, Elliott, Howard, Rowsey and Sacar played majority going up against much larger Depaul. 19 difference in rebounds, 19 to 6 offensive, and a 6ft 11 inch player sits on the bench and watches them get destroyed on glass. Had to be four Depaul possessions where they got at least 3 offensive rebounds and scored. Makes sense to me, others guess just playing better.
Something is going on here, no coach is that stupid after watching what happened during the game today.
If something is going on we will know soon enough.
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 24, 2018, 03:33:05 PM
If he cannot play one minute in today's game with the way Herldt and John played (not impressive) then it is something else. Do you think it is just the other guys are playing better yes or no?
Well he never played great when in. Some nice moves, but three shot never really there, Defense weak etc. he seemed very disengaged today in the timeout huddles. Standing behind and seemingly not paying attention, as Matt who was out and next to him was lean8ng in trying to hear Wojo. Dunno.
Quote from: 1SE on February 24, 2018, 04:46:11 PM
So a wasted scholly? Great job Wojo. Glad with a top-10 college basketball budget you're able to field a grand total of 8 players of sufficient quality to see PT against DePaul in year 4 of your tenure. You know the NCAA gives you 13 right?
Yeah cause NO OTHER TEAM plays with a 8 man rotation.
Seriously if you are going to bitch, bitch about something meaningful. This is just dumb.
Froling has simply played his way to the back of the rotation. He got opportunities and wasn't able to take advantage of them, hence the DNPs. Nothing more, nothing less.
On Epperson, we didn't stop recruiting Epperson to get Froling. But we did stop recruiting Epperson once we got Froling. A bird on the hand is worth two in the bush type situation.
Froling has probably been the player he has been the furthest from meeting my expectations this season. I've heard he's better than this and does great in practice but it hasn't translated on the floor at all. He hasn't even been as good as he was in the 10 games he played for SMU when he was 40 lbs heavier.
I have no expectations for him the rest of the season and would expect him to be at the end of the bench next season....but I also wouldn't be shocked if he ended up being the most improved player on the team next season. I thought Sacar would be a nice role player one day but I didn't expect him to make as big of a jump as he did. Same thing could happen for Harry.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 24, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
Froling has simply played his way to the back of the rotation. He got opportunities and wasn't able to take advantage of them, hence the DNPs. Nothing more, nothing less.
On Epperson, we didn't stop recruiting Epperson to get Froling. But we did stop recruiting Epperson once we got Froling. A bird on the hand is worth two in the bush type situation.
Froling has probably been the player he has been the furthest from meeting my expectations this season. I've heard he's better than this and does great in practice but it hasn't translated on the floor at all. He hasn't even been as good as he was in the 10 games he played for SMU when he was 40 lbs heavier.
I have no expectations for him the rest of the season and would expect him to be at the end of the bench next season....but I also wouldn't be shocked if he ended up being the most improved player on the team next season. I thought Sacar would be a nice role player one day but I didn't expect him to make as big of a jump as he did. Same thing could happen for Harry.
I think it would be worth doing one of your comprehensive research reports focusing on transfers and how successful they are. There have been players who moved from lesser conferences to better conferences that have done well. However, they had very strong performances at their first team. Recent Examples, Maurice Watson, Jr. , Andrew Rowsey and Max Struss. There have been others who transferred to a similar level because of playing time issues, in their case they did well in the limited minutes they did get, an example is Marvin Clark II . Then there are guys who did not perform at their first school and transferred to a similar level and didn't perform there. Example Austin Grandstaff. I am sure you can figure out some interesting matrix for evaluation of transfers and their performance.
Quote from: 1SE on February 23, 2018, 01:53:44 AM
Wasn't the main reason he transferred out of SMU lack of pt? Is Wojo playing some kind games to get him to transfer out st end of season and open up a scholly?
He plays less here than at SMU and didn't even make it through the non conference schedule there. They knew what they had in him and showed him out the door.
If he doesn't go pro in the NBL after this season he's staying at least 2 more years.
SMU didn't show him out the door. He didn't like it there, especially when Larry Brown retired.
There was a lot of hype surrounding Froling this season. Early on, Jay Bilas (on multiple occasions) reminded the MU faithful that a difference making big man was waiting in the wings. I think it's fair to assume that his evaluation came right from the horse's mouth. How could Wojo be so off base? #Troubling.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 24, 2018, 07:33:54 PM
Froling has simply played his way to the back of the rotation. He got opportunities and wasn't able to take advantage of them, hence the DNPs. Nothing more, nothing less.
On Epperson, we didn't stop recruiting Epperson to get Froling. But we did stop recruiting Epperson once we got Froling. A bird on the hand is worth two in the bush type situation.
Froling has probably been the player he has been the furthest from meeting my expectations this season. I've heard he's better than this and does great in practice but it hasn't translated on the floor at all. He hasn't even been as good as he was in the 10 games he played for SMU when he was 40 lbs heavier.
I have no expectations for him the rest of the season and would expect him to be at the end of the bench next season....but I also wouldn't be shocked if he ended up being the most improved player on the team next season. I thought Sacar would be a nice role player one day but I didn't expect him to make as big of a jump as he did. Same thing could happen for Harry.
Epperson started out the season being red shirted. He was injured and not considered ready to play. Creighton's center last year was a redshirt freshmen who left for NBA. Maybe Creighton's coach is much better in developing bigmen than Wojo. No reason to believe Epperson would be as good at MU.
Quote from: bilsu on February 24, 2018, 09:19:34 PM
Epperson started out the season being red shirted. He was injured and not considered ready to play. Creighton's center last year was a redshirt freshmen who left for NBA. Maybe Creighton's coach is much better in developing bigmen than Wojo. No reason to believe Epperson would be as good at MU.
Epperson got an additional 3 months to work on his conditioning and strength and gave skills development while the red shirt was on. He is much bigger now than when we were looking at him.
Seems like Wojo wants him to transfer back out already.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 24, 2018, 07:32:31 PM
Yeah cause NO OTHER TEAM plays with a 8 man rotation.
Seriously if you are going to bitch, bitch about something meaningful. This is just dumb.
Find me one other team, with anything close to our MBB budget, that plays 8 guys and is going to miss the Tourney. Hell, I don't care if we play with 5 or 6 and WIN. But if we lose to DePaul because we don't have enough options to be creative with our lineup (i.e get abused for lack of size, experience, whatever other lame excuses people put forward here) I'm going to bitch about Wojo's inability to build a complete team.
Quote from: 1SE on February 24, 2018, 04:46:11 PM
So a wasted scholly? Great job Wojo. Glad with a top-10 college basketball budget you're able to field a grand total of 8 players of sufficient quality to see PT against DePaul in year 4 of your tenure. You know the NCAA gives you 13 right?
+1,000,000
Quote from: 1SE on February 25, 2018, 02:00:20 AM
Find me one other team, with anything close to our MBB budget, that plays 8 guys and is going to miss the Tourney. Hell, I don't care if we play with 5 or 6 and WIN. But if we lose to DePaul because we don't have enough options to be creative with our lineup (i.e get abused for lack of size, experience, whatever other lame excuses people put forward here) I'm going to bitch about Wojo's inability to build a complete team.
Dumb. Budget has nothing to do with it.
Quote from: bilsu on February 24, 2018, 09:19:34 PM
Epperson started out the season being red shirted. He was injured and not considered ready to play. Creighton's center last year was a redshirt freshmen who left for NBA. Maybe Creighton's coach is much better in developing bigmen than Wojo. No reason to believe Epperson would be as good at MU.
Well there's no reason to believe he would be worse.
DePaul o the horror of losing to them, bottom feeders in the Beast since arrival, no way we should
lose to them, every short turnaround we lose, really be surprised if we win at GT.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 24, 2018, 10:09:16 PM
Epperson got an additional 3 months to work on his conditioning and strength and gave skills development while the red shirt was on. He is much bigger now than when we were looking at him.
Woudnt he be bigger now if he came to MU??? Or does that just happen at CU?
Quote from: #bansultan on February 25, 2018, 06:11:15 AM
Dumb. Budget has nothing to do with it.
So there should be no correlation between what is spent and the quality of the product? You are going to have to explain that to me because while I acknowledge it doesn't always guarantee results, it does increase expectations, and it should.
Quote from: 1SE on February 25, 2018, 02:00:20 AM
Find me one other team, with anything close to our MBB budget, that plays 8 guys and is going to miss the Tourney. Hell, I don't care if we play with 5 or 6 and WIN. But if we lose to DePaul because we don't have enough options to be creative with our lineup (i.e get abused for lack of size, experience, whatever other lame excuses people put forward here) I'm going to bitch about Wojo's inability to build a complete team.
We currently have 3 players redshirting. We had another transfer mid-season. That accounts for all 13 scholarships, so the 9 bodies left are all the rotation Wojo could have available.
Was Froling a miss? Maybe. But Elliott, Cain, John, and Anim all seem like overlooked guys that were hits. As far as talent evaluation, I think Wojo is hitting more than missing.
As far as building a complete team, this team is built for next year. I know it sounds like an excuse but look at the team on paper. Wojo will be able to start 5 upperclassmen (Howard, Anim, Hauser, Morrow, Heldt). He'll have a bench with experience (Elliott, Cain, John). He'll have an injection of youth led by a 5-star (Joey, Bailey, Eke). The other scholarships we'll see. Maybe Froling is here, maybe not. Maybe we add a grad transfer PG, maybe not. Regardless, that's 9-12 players you expect to contribute (the +/-3 are Froling, Eke, and Bailey, the unknowns).
I have a lot of questions about Wojo right now, but I think he has to get next year, otherwise we're starting from scratch without knowing if the team that he spent 4 years building was one that could succeed or not.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 25, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
We currently have 3 players redshirting. We had another transfer mid-season. That accounts for all 13 scholarships, so the 9 bodies left are all the rotation Wojo could have available.
Was Froling a miss? Maybe. But Elliott, Cain, John, and Anim all seem like overlooked guys that were hits. As far as talent evaluation, I think Wojo is hitting more than missing.
As far as building a complete team, this team is built for next year. I know it sounds like an excuse but look at the team on paper. Wojo will be able to start 5 upperclassmen (Howard, Anim, Hauser, Morrow, Heldt). He'll have a bench with experience (Elliott, Cain, John). He'll have an injection of youth led by a 5-star (Joey, Bailey, Eke). The other scholarships we'll see. Maybe Froling is here, maybe not. Maybe we add a grad transfer PG, maybe not. Regardless, that's 9-12 players you expect to contribute (the +/-3 are Froling, Eke, and Bailey, the unknowns).
I have a lot of questions about Wojo right now, but I think he has to get next year, otherwise we're starting from scratch without knowing if the team that he spent 4 years building was one that could succeed or not.
I agree he has a squad that has depth and talent. If Bailey is anything, they will have a wing that can help. but I see 9 players getting playing time next year,
all with experience in the system. That alone should make a difference. If Anim can improve his outside shot a tad, Bailey can play a little guard, then maybe having
12 next year is fine. That will give Wojo the opportunity to recruit 2 kids for 2019. That would keep the classes more even. Morrow and Joey should help MU become
a better rebounding team, yesterday was ridiculous on the boards.
Quote from: connie on February 25, 2018, 08:23:12 AM
So there should be no correlation between what is spent and the quality of the product? You are going to have to explain that to me because while I acknowledge it doesn't always guarantee results, it does increase expectations, and it should.
It has nothing to do with filling scholarships. And budgets aren't apples to apples comparisons anyway.
Quote from: 1SE on February 25, 2018, 02:00:20 AM
Find me one other team, with anything close to our MBB budget, that plays 8 guys and is going to miss the Tourney. Hell, I don't care if we play with 5 or 6 and WIN. But if we lose to DePaul because we don't have enough options to be creative with our lineup (i.e get abused for lack of size, experience, whatever other lame excuses people put forward here) I'm going to bitch about Wojo's inability to build a complete team.
What are you using as a source for top 10 budget?
This
1) University of Kentucky 18,910,412
2) University of Louisville 17,900,031
3) Duke University 17,890,632
4) Syracuse University 13,876,720
5) Indiana University-Bloomington 12,129,479
6) University of Arizona 11,761,006
7) Florida State University 11,730,040
8) University of Kansas 11,636,720
9) Georgetown University 11,343,826
10) Marquette University 11,308,266
The problem with that is the first eight schools have FBS football, which means they can have other sports cover the costs of basketball or share in them as it were.
But since you asked the question, Georgetown will miss the NCAA tournament and they have a larger basketball budget than we do using this source (US Dept of Education). Indiana will miss the NCAA tournament. Syracuse may miss the tournament. Louisville going into yesterday's game was behind us in the bracket projections.
That is 30% for sure that will miss, and potentially 50% of the top 10.
Quote from: Warrior1969 on February 25, 2018, 07:54:08 AM
Woudnt he be bigger now if he came to MU??? Or does that just happen at CU?
the point is, Epperson had the partial benefit of the redshirt the bulk of the season. The concept behind the non injury redshirt is to build your body and work on your game. If he came to MU ,and redshirted ,yes he would have the same benefit.
Quote from: WarriorDad on February 25, 2018, 11:50:18 AM
What are you using as a source for top 10 budget?
This
1) University of Kentucky 18,910,412
2) University of Louisville 17,900,031
3) Duke University 17,890,632
4) Syracuse University 13,876,720
5) Indiana University-Bloomington 12,129,479
6) University of Arizona 11,761,006
7) Florida State University 11,730,040
8) University of Kansas 11,636,720
9) Georgetown University 11,343,826
10) Marquette University 11,308,266
The problem with that is the first eight schools have FBS football, which means they can have other sports cover the costs of basketball or share in them as it were.
But since you asked the question, Georgetown will miss the NCAA tournament and they have a larger basketball budget than we do using this source (US Dept of Education). Indiana will miss the NCAA tournament. Syracuse may miss the tournament. Louisville going into yesterday's game was behind us in the bracket projections.
That is 30% for sure that will miss, and potentially 50% of the top 10.
Part of the budget for MU and GTown is facility rentals. The others play in campus owned facilities (or have a sweetheart deal as Louisville and FSU have). MU has a very large budget compared to similar institutions but 11th is a deceptive number.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 24, 2018, 08:47:13 PM
SMU didn't show him out the door. He didn't like it there, especially when Larry Brown retired.
Yeah, keep thinking that.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 25, 2018, 01:24:59 PM
Yeah, keep thinking that.
I've heard no different from many people who would know.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2018, 09:36:25 PM
I don't question the talent, but I have always seen him listed as 6'6" or 6'7" and therefore he would be splitting minutes more with guys like Sam, Sacar, and Jamal.
#FakeNews
Wherever you're looking, they have bad and/or outdated info.
There is no reason we should not be doing as good as Xavier or Butler!
PERIOD!
And the Badgers are in a down rotation......Absolutely no excuse at this point!
Quote from: burger on February 25, 2018, 02:56:02 PM
There is no reason we should not be doing as good as Xavier or Butler!
PERIOD!
And the Badgers are in a down rotation......Absolutely no excuse at this point!
Chris Mack has been at Xavier for 9 seasons. Lavall Jordan is doing great but with the team Chris Holtmann built, no idea if he can sustain that. With the exception of Butler, the league standings are pretty much organized similarly to the length of time the current coaches have been there. It's not really a mystery how you build a consistent winner.
Quote from: burger on February 25, 2018, 02:56:02 PM
There is no reason we should not be doing as good as Xavier or Butler!
PERIOD!
And the Badgers are in a down rotation......Absolutely no excuse at this point!
Did we not beat Wisconsin this year by 20 at their place? Did we not perform better than they have? Did we not land at least one recruit they desperately wanted?
No reason why we should not be doing as well as Xavier? I can think of a few. They've kept the same coach for 10 years rather than wanting to reject him whenever things don't go the fans way despite him missing the NCAAs in his 4th year and being first four (Dayton game) in year 5. They have an on campus arena they share with no one.
Butler, time will tell if they can stay where they are, but the new guy is blessed with what the previous guy left him.
If we don't get a grad point guard or some other point guard, we don't have to worry about going anywhere. Howard or Elliot can't be point guards. We won't be able to bring the ball up.
Quote from: muwar2014@gmail.com on February 25, 2018, 04:41:44 PM
If we don't get a grad point guard or some other point guard, we don't have to worry about going anywhere. Howard or Elliot can't be point guards. We won't be able to bring the ball up.
They can always develop over the offseason
https://twitter.com/HarryFroling/status/967506647282343942
When you start living the life of your dreams, there will always be obstacles, doubters, mistakes and setbacks along the way. But with hard work, perseverance and self-belief there is no limit to what you can achieve. #believe
Harry certainly wants to get better. Hope he puts in the work this off-season and surprises us all next season
Hopefully froling plays today, with georgetown's bigs it could be rough
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on February 26, 2018, 10:17:04 AM
Hopefully froling plays today, with georgetown's bigs it could be rough
I'm going to guess he'll get a few minutes, but Wojo really seems to have soured on him lately. We go murdered on the boards at Depaul, and he still didn't look to Harry for help. What a weird month for the kid to go from entering the starting lineup to consecutive DNPs.
https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/ncaa-notes-harry-froling-done-at-marquette-could-xavir-cooks-make-the-leap-to-the-nba-jock-landale-gets-player-of-the-year-hype/news-story/4781fbb0aac141687bdd885833b06e87
Found this
Apologies if it was already posted
Quote from: PBRme on February 26, 2018, 03:38:28 PM
https://www.foxsports.com.au/basketball/nba/ncaa-notes-harry-froling-done-at-marquette-could-xavir-cooks-make-the-leap-to-the-nba-jock-landale-gets-player-of-the-year-hype/news-story/4781fbb0aac141687bdd885833b06e87
Found this
Apologies if it was already posted
Its either going to be froling or Heldt, and so far all signs point to froling.
Yes, if Harry doesn't play tonight, you have to really consider he may be gone. Otherwise, he is in a super sized dog house........
QuoteHowever, Froling finished with an efficient six points, nine rebounds, and two assists in the Golden Eagles' last game against DePaul,
Weird decision by Steve
I think Wojo has made up his mind about Froling and is now in effect asking him to leave. I think Wojo's expectation was that he would be a Euro-center who could hit the 3. He even tried to play him along side another 5 (Matt or Theo) and that didn't work. If he doesn't bring the 3 ball to the party its going to be hard break into the rotation next year when you have Matt, Theo and Morrow as low post players. If Eke is showing them anything in practice that is the final nail. It bugs me that we have to do this to college players due to issues with talent evaluation and long term roster planning but I think that is where we are. Wojo needs the position to bring in some ball handling guards because we've swung too far toward front court players.
Quote from: nyg on February 26, 2018, 03:55:02 PM
Yes, if Harry doesn't play tonight, you have to really consider he may be gone. Otherwise, he is in a super sized dog house........
Or Wojo is just cutting down his rotiation....I think this is being super over analyzed.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on February 26, 2018, 04:07:59 PM
I think Wojo has made up his mind about Froling and is now in effect asking him to leave. I think Wojo's expectation was that he would be a Euro-center who could hit the 3. He even tried to play him along side another 5 (Matt or Theo) and that didn't work. If he doesn't bring the 3 ball to the party its going to be hard break into the rotation next year when you have Matt, Theo and Morrow as low post players. If Eke is showing them anything in practice that is the final nail. It bugs me that we have to do this to college players due to issues with talent evaluation and long term roster planning but I think that is where we are. Wojo needs the position to bring in some ball handling guards because we've swung too far toward front court players.
Unless Wojo has 2 yet to be announced incoming players in mind, I highly doubt he has asked Froling to leave. A bit of leap there...
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 26, 2018, 04:09:32 PM
Or Wojo is just cutting down his rotiation....I think this is being super over analyzed.
Understand, but after getting completely clobbered on the boards when there was Rowsey, Markus, Ellliott, Sam and Heldt on the floor and he didn't play one second, well.....Those offensive possessions where Depaul got at least three bounds on what four possessions and no subbing in a 6ft 11 inch guy? Is he that bad?
We'll see what happens tonight against Govan and Derrickson, two big, strong kids.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 26, 2018, 04:09:32 PM
Or Wojo is just cutting down his rotiation....I think this is being super over analyzed.
Not buying that. Not with the way we struggled to rebound against DePaul. There were minutes there for HF
Harry has played his way to the back of the rotation. Nothing more, nothing less. He may decide that he'll never be able to get PT here and leave... Or may decide to put in the work to get better.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 26, 2018, 04:09:32 PM
Or Wojo is just cutting down his rotiation....I think this is being super over analyzed.
Weird timing, though, if that's the case. Normally, you don't look to shorten the bench when a starter goes down. Then again, maybe he only wants the guys he's 100% sold on in the last stretch of the year. Still weird that Wojo went from starting the kid to the DNP's. Talk about mixed messages.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 26, 2018, 04:11:10 PM
Unless Wojo has 2 yet to be announced incoming players in mind, I highly doubt he has asked Froling to leave. A bit of leap there...
I agree-the article posted has the headline "Harry Froling done at Marquette?" even though it's just pure speculation by the writer. A little too click-baity for me.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on February 25, 2018, 01:24:59 PM
Yeah, keep thinking that.
He was not shown the door at SMU, period.
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally? Anywhere. We're not that good inside and someone with the ostensible talent Froling has should be starting for us.
There's a whole lot more to this than anyone is acknowledging. I'm guessing there's some practice and maybe some off the court issues.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally? Anywhere. We're not that good inside and someone with the ostensible talent Froling has should be starting for us.
There's a whole lot more to this than anyone is acknowledging. I'm guessing there's some practice and maybe some off the court issues.
Just because a guy finds his way to the back of the rotation doesn't mean there is off court issues. He may not be pleased with his current role, but that doesn't always mean the he's in the doghouse or on his way out of town.
Hopefully it's time for MU to see a lot more of that in the coming years. We haven't been 12 deep for a long time. Even at 10 deep this year has been a pleasure. When you go that deep, some guys don't play. That simple.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally? Anywhere. We're not that good inside and someone with the ostensible talent Froling has should be starting for us.
There's a whole lot more to this than anyone is acknowledging. I'm guessing there's some practice and maybe some off the court issues.
Australia has several layers of professional leagues. He would fit in just fine there.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 26, 2018, 06:34:36 PM
Australia has several layers of professional leagues. He would fit in just fine there.
But, the NBL (the best one) has severe salary caps. Not much money there but for G League imports.
Bang Bang
Froling is rolling!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 26, 2018, 07:39:30 PM
Froling is rolling!
Living up to his billing tonight. Shots looked pretty good, but I'm not sure I want to see a whole lot more of that. Don't tempt fate too much!
A virtue out of necessity. Congrats, big fella.
From Patrick Hazel to Jim Cinderella Dudley.
Nice game for Harry wasn't it? Hope it helps him gain some confidence.
Quote from: tower912 on February 26, 2018, 08:18:59 PM
A virtue out of necessity. Congrats, big fella.
No choice by Wojo when Theo had four and Heldt three. Two big shots and almost made the third. Helped the team big time and if you watched the bench, they were going nuts.
He may have been the difference had he played Saturday. Happy for him. Made the most of his opportunity after rising pine two straights games
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally? Anywhere. We're not that good inside and someone with the ostensible talent Froling has should be starting for us.
There's a whole lot more to this than anyone is acknowledging. I'm guessing there's some practice and maybe some off the court issues.
This. ^^^
I understood bad match ups v SJU. I also thought he could have helped again St Depaul. Perhaps combined with Theo in the zone. Alas.
Quote from: Nukem2 on February 26, 2018, 06:59:06 PM
But, the NBL (the best one) has severe salary caps. Not much money there but for G League imports.
But he lives in Australia so that would help. I just saw they have a soft salary cap of 1.1 million per 11 players but the first $150,000 for local players don't count. So there is some money to be made as a local.
After he hit the first 3 the camera went to the bench and showed Sam saying "He's back!"
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally? Anywhere. We're not that good inside and someone with the ostensible talent Froling has should be starting for us.
There's a whole lot more to this than anyone is acknowledging. I'm guessing there's some practice and maybe some off the court issues.
Disagree he was simply playing terribly. No more no less
Quote from: Newsdreams on February 26, 2018, 08:39:43 PM
But he lives in Australia so that would help. I just saw they have a soft salary cap of 1.1 million per 11 players but the first $150,000 for local players don't count. So there is some money to be made as a local
This is what I have been saying for some time. Harry has an advantage as a local player in that league. They need a certain number of local players . It is just a matter of a team offering him a spot . Pre MU , Harry exolored the NBL opportunity but the option was not yet available at that level. It may , or may not be, now.
Whatever path Harry chooses, and I hope that he returns to MU, we'll have last night's GTown game.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on February 26, 2018, 04:11:10 PM
Unless Wojo has 2 yet to be announced incoming players in mind, I highly doubt he has asked Froling to leave. A bit of leap there...
He asked Wally to leave and ended up not being able to replace him.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 26, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I find this whole thing amazing.
If he can't break the line-up at MU, then what makes anyone think he can play professionally?
Niv Birkowitz is still playing professionally in Israel. In the league Vander crapped out of.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2018, 06:25:21 AM
He asked Wally to leave and ended up not being able to replace him.
You think we missed Wally last year?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 22, 2018, 09:36:25 PM
I don't question the talent, but I have always seen him listed as 6'6" or 6'7" and therefore he would be splitting minutes more with guys like Sam, Sacar, and Jamal.
He has been listed at 6'8" as a Sophomore at SPASH and is listed at 6'9" on the Marquette roster as a Forward.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2018, 06:25:21 AM
He asked Wally to leave and ended up not being able to replace him.
Wally was not asked to leave. Wally was given a choice and he chose to leave.
Quote from: tower912 on February 26, 2018, 08:38:53 PM
I understood bad match ups v SJU. I also thought he could have helped again St Depaul. Perhaps combined with Theo in the zone. Alas.
This is the reason I thought he may be leaving. He seemed like a natural choice for some minutes against DePaul the way the game progressed, and the fact that he didn't get them led me to think something was up.
I honestly think Wojo knew that Froling was in a mental funk. He had a rough few shooting games (that missed bunny at St. Johns still haunts me) and that caused his all around game to spiral down. Hopefully after last night his mind is right and he gets a few more minutes. The stroke is there and it would be nice to see him at the 4 with Sam at the 3.
According to Ben Steele's JS account, Wojo told Harry as he was putting him in that he was going to be open, and when he is open, to please shoot the ball. Seems Harry was having some confidence issues.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 27, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
According to Ben Steele's JS account, Wojo told Harry as he was putting him in that he was going to be open, and when he is open, to please shoot the ball. Seems Harry was having some confidence issues.
We also heard Wojo say that on Homer and Mac's show last night.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 27, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
According to Ben Steele's JS account, Wojo told Harry as he was putting him in that he was going to be open, and when he is open, to please shoot the ball. Seems Harry was having some confidence issues.
I wonder if Harry was on the same page as Wojo? If Harry was thinking he'd play in the SJU and Creighton games, but Wojo DNP-ed him, and then Harry comes out and steps up against G-town - does that put Harry in a worse place mentally, thinking he should have earned some PT in prior games, or does he look at G-town as a positive and build on it? (sorry for the run-on sentences!)
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2018, 09:06:49 AM
I wonder if Harry was on the same page as Wojo? If Harry was thinking he'd play in the SJU and Creighton games, but Wojo DNP-ed him, and then Harry comes out and steps up against G-town - does that put Harry in a worse place mentally, thinking he should have earned some PT in prior games, or does he look at G-town as a positive and build on it? (sorry for the run-on sentences!)
You are a very negative person. Always imagining a worst case scenario.
I think Harry knows that when you're near the end of the bench PT may not come every game. He got an opportunity last night and played great. I know history has said that someone will leave this offseason, but I really hope he stays and puts in work, because he definitely has upside, and could be a good player in this league.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 27, 2018, 06:25:37 AM
Niv Birkowitz is still playing professionally in Israel. In the league Vander crapped out of.
Vander was cut after his team was eliminated from playoff contention. Very common in Europe to cut higher priced players after you have nothing to play for.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on February 27, 2018, 09:21:55 AM
You are a very negative person. Always imagining a worst case scenario.
I don't think that's an irrational thought process at all. Maybe because I'm too negative? I don't think I am, but some certainly do. I just try to avoid the kool-aid, that's all.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2018, 09:06:49 AM
I wonder if Harry was on the same page as Wojo? If Harry was thinking he'd play in the SJU and Creighton games, but Wojo DNP-ed him, and then Harry comes out and steps up against G-town - does that put Harry in a worse place mentally, thinking he should have earned some PT in prior games, or does he look at G-town as a positive and build on it? (sorry for the run-on sentences!)
Judi wow. Coach asked him to step up, told him how he could, and he did. That's how you build confidence and trust.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 27, 2018, 09:26:41 AM
I think Harry knows that when you're near the end of the bench PT may not come every game. He got an opportunity last night and played great. I know history has said that someone will leave this offseason, but I really hope he stays and puts in work, because he definitely has upside, and could be a good player in this league.
Unless he is going back to Australia I do not see him transferring to another college. Already did it once. He brings a skill set the other centers do not have. Suck it
up and play better in the future. He turned the game around yesterday with 2 big shots, big shot in the arm for the team. He has gotten open shoots all year so far,
just has to get confidence to do it. Yesterday, might be a break out game for that. Time will tell. His D is average, but when MU decided to double team the low post,
that is when they won the game. Give Wojo credit for that.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on February 27, 2018, 08:28:58 AM
According to Ben Steele's JS account, Wojo told Harry as he was putting him in that he was going to be open, and when he is open, to please shoot the ball. Seems Harry was having some confidence issues.
Good to hear. It has been weird seeing him drain it in shootaround but then hesitate in the game. Hopefully this gets him a bit more confidence going forward--he can be a lethal weapon on offense and on the boards.
Quote from: jsglow on February 27, 2018, 09:33:34 AM
Judi wow. Coach asked him to step up, told him how he could, and he did. That's how you build confidence and trust.
For some players, getting benched sends a message that they need to work harder to earn PT, for others, it's viewed as a punishment and can breed resentment. Do I think Harry is a Jeronne Maymon? No, but it's not out of the question for a guy to be upset that he got benched.
Just yesterday someone posted an article saying it's not out of the question for Harry to consider leaving to go to Australia. I'm sure it's just conjecture, but it's not crazy to think a player becomes unhappy when he doesn't get PT. Some guys are motivated by it, some guys aren't.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 26, 2018, 08:32:36 PM
He may have been the difference had he played Saturday. Happy for him. Made the most of his opportunity after rising pine two straights games
Agree with this.
Again, I'm bullish on Wojo, but I thought he coached a poor game vs. DePaul.
We were in a situation in which nothing was working in the 2H, so it was worth a few "why the hell not?" moves. And Harry would have been such a move.
If Wojo had said the exact same thing to him - I'm putting you in, shoot when they leave you open, we believe in you - he could have helped a lot vs. DePaul.
It's classic Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking by me, but that's what fans do and that's why coaches get the big bucks.
Totally cool that Harry came through last night!
Quote from: MU82 on February 27, 2018, 10:22:17 AM
Agree with this.
Again, I'm bullish on Wojo, but I thought he coached a poor game vs. DePaul.
We were in a situation in which nothing was working in the 2H, so it was worth a few "why the hell not?" moves. And Harry would have been such a move.
If Wojo had said the exact same thing to him - I'm putting you in, shoot when they leave you open, we believe in you - he could have helped a lot vs. DePaul.
It's classic Tuesday Morning Quarterbacking by me, but that's what fans do and that's why coaches get the big bucks.
Totally cool that Harry came through last night!
Should have put more pressure on getting the ball out of hands of there two best players, much like they did at the game yesterday.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2018, 09:06:49 AM
I wonder if Harry was on the same page as Wojo? If Harry was thinking he'd play in the SJU and Creighton games, but Wojo DNP-ed him, and then Harry comes out and steps up against G-town - does that put Harry in a worse place mentally, thinking he should have earned some PT in prior games, or does he look at G-town as a positive and build on it? (sorry for the run-on sentences!)
Curious, if it was YOU what would be your thinking. Better or Worse?
Quote from: Loose Cannon on February 27, 2018, 10:38:37 AM
Curious, if it was YOU what would be your thinking. Better or Worse?
I'd be happy I proved myself. But it does seem that more and more college players have people in their ear, telling them how good they are, so I worry that we can have guys grow to be discontented with their role. I'm probably over-sensitive to the transfer possibilities. We've obviously weathered those storms well, but it's still a concern of mine. Can't help it.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2018, 07:42:25 AM
Wally was not asked to leave. Wally was given a choice and he chose to leave.
Forcing him to make a choice between one sport and another is somewhat the same thing.
Quote from: jsglow on February 27, 2018, 09:33:34 AM
Judi wow. Coach asked him to step up, told him how he could, and he did. That's how you build confidence and trust.
That has to be one of the most irritating autocorrects. I've edited "Judi" out of so many posts, and I've no idea how often my wife responded to a text saying "who's Judi?" IPhone, I assume?
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2018, 11:03:47 AM
I'd be happy I proved myself. But it does seem that more and more college players have people in their ear, telling them how good they are, so I worry that we can have guys grow to be discontented with their role. I'm probably over-sensitive to the transfer possibilities. We've obviously weathered those storms well, but it's still a concern of mine. Can't help it.
Thanks for your reply. I would agree.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Forcing him to make a choice between one sport and another is somewhat the same thing.
Not really. But also not the choice that was given
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2018, 09:50:33 AM
For some players, getting benched sends a message that they need to work harder to earn PT, for others, it's viewed as a punishment and can breed resentment. Do I think Harry is a Jeronne Maymon? No, but it's not out of the question for a guy to be upset that he got benched.
Just yesterday someone posted an article saying it's not out of the question for Harry to consider leaving to go to Australia. I'm sure it's just conjecture, but it's not crazy to think a player becomes unhappy when he doesn't get PT. Some guys are motivated by it, some guys aren't.
I don't disagree with you. But Jeronne Maymon isn't a good example. The only thing wrong with Jeronne Maymon was Tim Maymon
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Forcing him to make a choice between one sport and another is somewhat the same thing.
Though, he still had a scholie and was actually much better at the other sport. Not a bad choice.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 27, 2018, 11:30:17 AM
That has to be one of the most irritating autocorrects. I've edited "Judi" out of so many posts, and I've no idea how often my wife responded to a text saying "who's Judi?" IPhone, I assume?
My phone auto corrects Greg Gard to Greg Hard. It always makes me laugh at the thought of him getting fired by Bucky and going into porn.
Froling might leave for what in Australia? Based on his current resume, he's only a fringe player in that pro league. That league is incredibly physical with lightning quick (usually undersized) guards and bigs who can shoot and bang. Can't see him fitting in anything other than a developmental role and those are typically reserved for 17-19 year olds in that system.
He needs to stay, work, improve, benefit MU, and then earn some $$$ in a couple years.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 27, 2018, 11:30:17 AM
That has to be one of the most irritating autocorrects. I've edited "Judi" out of so many posts, and I've no idea how often my wife responded to a text saying "who's Judi?" IPhone, I assume?
I just thought that skianth16 was a chick named Judi.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 27, 2018, 04:53:34 PM
I just thought that skianth16 was a chick named Judi.
(https://i.imgflip.com/1hc1i6.jpg)
Seems like Harry and Jamal could be additional 3pt threats for next season. Is Joey and Brendan good like Sam from beyond the arc? If so we won't miss Rowsey next season.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 27, 2018, 05:48:27 PM
Seems like Harry and Jamal could be additional 3pt threats for next season. Is Joey and Brendan good like Sam from beyond the arc? If so we won't miss Rowsey next season.
Both Joey and Brendan can hit from beyond the arc. I don't think either are at Sammy's level but they will do well
Almost nobody is at Sam's level...''Joey is a definite 3 point threat. Bailey can shoot it but after 2 years of not playing I'm keeping my expectations modest for him next year.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Forcing him to make a choice between one sport and another is somewhat the same thing.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2018, 01:38:06 PM
Not really. But also not the choice that was given
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a
walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a
full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 27, 2018, 09:11:16 PM
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
Makes no sense.....we only had 10 scholarship players last season....11 if you count adding Harry at midseason.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 27, 2018, 09:11:16 PM
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
Quote from: MuMark on February 27, 2018, 09:46:40 PM
Makes no sense.....we only had 10 scholarship players last season....11 if you count adding Harry at midseason.
It is not a question of having a scholarship available. It is a question of the coach awarding it. Athletic Scholarships are not guaranteed.,they are annually renewable.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 27, 2018, 09:11:16 PM
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
This doesn't seem right to me either
Quote from: MuMark on February 27, 2018, 09:46:40 PM
Makes no sense.....we only had 10 scholarship players last season....11 if you count adding Harry at midseason.
Incorrect. We also had Anim redshirting and Cohen before the transfer. Wally would've been 13. Harry was able to transfer in because they didn't fill the Wally scholarship. They tried to fill that scholarship with another grad transfer but were unable to do so.
Wally could've stayed on scholarship as I recall but only if he gave up track.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 27, 2018, 09:11:16 PM
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2018, 11:30:09 PM
This doesn't seem right to me either
It is very simple NCAA rules 101 stuff.
Basketball Coach Goes into player A and says we are not renewing your athletic scholarship. You can stay on the basketball team if you pay your own freight.
Track and Field coach says to Player A We have an athletic scholarship alternative for you. If you want to continue to run track we can provide you a full scholarship. However, NCAA rules prevent us from giving you a Track scholarship if you participate in basketball. Thus if you want to play both basketball and run track you have to pay your own freight in both.
In order to avoid PR hit, Athletic Department put out announcement that Player A still had scholarship opportunity in track.
Player A thus had choice. 1) Play Basketball as a walk on and compete in Track as walk on. 2) Compete in track as a scholarship athlete and forego final year of eligibility in basketball. 3) Graduate and Grad transfer.
These are the actual facts as verified by the MU Athletic Department.
People can make any interpretation of both Player A , The Coaches and The athletic Departments motivations as they want.
Player A graduated and did not use his final year of athletic eligibility in either Track or Basketball.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 27, 2018, 05:48:27 PM
Seems like Harry and Jamal could be additional 3pt threats for next season. Is Joey and Brendan good like Sam from beyond the arc? If so we won't miss Rowsey next season.
Even if both guys can hit the 3, we'll still miss Rowsey next year. There's no way around it. No one else on next year's projected roster is as good of a ballhandler or distributor as him. That said, I'm hoping Wojo looks to have a more balanced offense next year, given the big change in size/length form this year's roster to next year's. As a team, we've done well from behind the arc in recent years, but we've also been a bit too one dimensional on offense because of that.
We'll still have 2 guaranteed elite shooters, so any extra help from 3 will be gravy. I'm guessing (hoping) that Joey and Bailey will be more in the "switchables" category and will be more versatile scorers that get themselves to the hoop a lot. It will be nice to be able to exploit the best matchups on the floor rather than needing to rely so much on the 3 all the time.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 27, 2018, 09:11:16 PM
Have said this before, this is how it came down with Wally:
1) He could stay on the basketball team (and track team) as a walk on, like Cam Marotta, with no athletic scholarship. Or 2) he could participate in track and field on a full scholarship ,which by NCAA rules, prevents him from playing basketball ( or football).
Wally chose to graduate and move on.
I never realized that scholarship athletes can be prohibited from playing other sports as well. Does that mean that all 2 sport athletes are paying their own way? I feel like it doesn't seem that uncommon for receivers or DBs on football teams to also run track. Are these guys not able to get scholarships? Or is there some cross-over in the basketball and track seasons that causes a conflict, making an athlete unable to participate in both if on scholarship?
You can have a full ride in another sport, but if you play basketball or football, then that counts against the number for basketball or football.
Basically, you can't stash dudes on the rifle team and not have them count against your 13 schollys for basketball.
Wally was told that he needed to focus on bball if he wanted to continue at MU, he chose not to and left.
Nah this doesn't seem like the whole story HC.
As for "actual facts verified by the MU athletic department"...didn't you use that same line when you said Wojo was getting a contract extension last season... And three numerous other fictions you've posted?
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 28, 2018, 08:38:50 AM
You can have a full ride in another sport, but if you play basketball or football, then that counts against the number for basketball or football.
Basically, you can't stash dudes on the rifle team and not have them count against your 13 schollys for basketball.
Wally was told that he needed to focus on bball if he wanted to continue at MU, he chose not to and left.
Thanks. That makes it a lot more clear.
Actually, Wally had fully utilized his eligibility in outdoor track with two years at UMn and two at MU. He still had eligibility in indoor track, which is in season the same time as basketball. He would not have been able to participate in both at the same time even if he walked on to the basketball team.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on February 28, 2018, 08:38:50 AM
You can have a full ride in another sport, but if you play basketball or football, then that counts against the number for basketball or football.
Basically, you can't stash dudes on the rifle team and not have them count against your 13 schollys for basketball.
Wally was told that he needed to focus on bball if he wanted to continue at MU as a basketball player, he chose not to and left.
FIFY
He could have stayed as a track athlete as well, but then he would have been out of basketball.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 27, 2018, 05:48:27 PM
Seems like Harry and Jamal could be additional 3pt threats for next season. Is Joey and Brendan good like Sam from beyond the arc? If so we won't miss Rowsey next season.
Cain is already a 3-point threat. He is shooting .458 this season and it's not a tiny sample size (22-48, about 1.8 attempts per game). His form is very good and I'm always happy to see him shoot when wide open - which he often is due to the attention that Sam, Markus and AR get.
Elliott's has shot fewer 3s (10-25), but .400 is nothing to sneeze at.
Anim is the only guard/wing on the roster who makes me say, "No!" when he decides to shoot a 3. I'm quite surprised when it goes in. But maybe he can improve in that category as JJJ did.
Froling's shot looks pretty darn good, and his teammates and coaches sure want him to take it.
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2018, 12:23:46 PM
Cain is already a 3-point threat. He is shooting .458 this season and it's not a tiny sample size (22-48, about 1.8 attempts per game). His form is very good and I'm always happy to see him shoot when wide open - which he often is due to the attention that Sam, Markus and AR get.
Elliott's has shot fewer 3s (10-25), but .400 is nothing to sneeze at.
Anim is the only guard/wing on the roster who makes me say, "No!" when he decides to shoot a 3. I'm quite surprised when it goes in. But maybe he can improve in that category as JJJ did.
Froling's shot looks pretty darn good, and his teammates and coaches sure want him to take it.
Elliot has shot ut even better than that during the second half of tge season. When he first hurt his thumb and he was just getting used to the cast/brace he was shooting like 15% over tge first 10-15 games.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 28, 2018, 08:42:32 AM
Nah this doesn't seem like the whole story HC.
As for "actual facts verified by the MU athletic department"...didn't you use that same line when you said Wojo was getting a contract extension last season... And three numerous other fictions you've posted?
Once again in your passive aggressive way you deliberately over look what I wrote to promote your own agenda. I pointed out there are motivations that each party had and I didn't represent what those were. Who the hell knows why Wojo and Company wanted to free up a scholarship? That facts are he did; and the method I described is exactly what happened. Why don't you just admit you don't understand the rules of the NCAA as well as you think you do?
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2018, 12:23:46 PMAnim is the only guard/wing on the roster who makes me say, "No!" when he decides to shoot a 3. I'm quite surprised when it goes in. But maybe he can improve in that category as JJJ did.
Small sample size, but he is 5/12 (41.7%) from beyond the arc in our last 9 games.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 28, 2018, 12:33:33 PM
Once again in your passive aggressive way you deliberately over look what I wrote to promote your own agenda. I pointed out there are motivations that each party had and I didn't represent what those were. Who the hell knows why Wojo and Company wanted to free up a scholarship? That facts are he did; and the method I described is exactly what happened. Why don't you just admit you don't understand the rules of the NCAA as well as you think you do?
I didn't ignore any part of your post. You however have been dodging my questions about Wojo's contract extension that you claimed insider knowledge on.
Where you are wrong has zero to do with the NCAA rules HC. That part of your post is sound. And since you asked me to admit it, I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert on NCAA rules. I refer to the likes of Jay Bee on that stuff. You just have the facts of this case wrong. It didn't play out the way you claim to "have verified facts from the MU athletic department." Wally 100% had a basketball scholarship if he wanted it. He chose not to.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 28, 2018, 01:00:05 PM
Small sample size, but he is 5/12 (41.7%) from beyond the arc in our last 9 games.
Thanks, brew, I didn't know that.
I missed one of the FS Wis games, didn't watch the second half of another ... plus I tend to put my hands over my face and peek between my fingers every time I see Sacar going up for a jumper! Kind of the way Cubbie fans used to watch when Dempster entered a game.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 28, 2018, 01:04:37 PM
I didn't ignore any part of your post. You however have been dodging my questions about Wojo's contract extension that you claimed insider knowledge on.
Where you are wrong has zero to do with the NCAA rules HC. That part of your post is sound. And since you asked me to admit it, I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be an expert on NCAA rules. I refer to the likes of Jay Bee on that stuff. You just have the facts of this case wrong. It didn't play out the way you claim to "have verified facts from the MU athletic department." Wally 100% had a basketball scholarship if he wanted it. He chose not to.
Absolutely not true about the basketball scholarship. It was not renewed for a third year. Wally only had a track scholarship offered. Wally's only option to play basketball was as a walk on which he was more than welcome to do. Ellenson family did not want to pay a years tuition for the privilege. That is why they were so bent out of shape. If you remember we were in the mist of recruiting the likes of LG Gill and Kalif Young and we needed to free up a scholarship. Markus reclassified and we signed Reinhardt. So the scholarship was needed. The bloom had not left the rose with Sandy and Traci yet. So Wally was the one.
Wally only had eligibility for the indoor track season left and that is the sport he walked away from, not basketball.
NCAA prohibits an athlete from participating in football or basketball if they have a scholarship in any other sport. This rule was put in place because Florida State was loading up their track scholarships with wide receivers from the football team in order to get around scholarships limits. A kid who is on a football or basketball scholarship can do another sport. That is the loophole Wally fell under.
That sounds like a story very similar to Wojo's contract extension last season.
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2018, 06:33:34 PM
Thanks, brew, I didn't know that.
I missed one of the FS Wis games, didn't watch the second half of another ... plus I tend to put my hands over my face and peek between my fingers every time I see Sacar going up for a jumper! Kind of the way Cubbie fans used to watch when Dempster entered a game.
Yet you watch in awe and astonishment at a Harry 3 attempt.
Quote from: yetipro on February 28, 2018, 09:22:34 PM
Yet you watch in awe and astonishment at a Harry 3 attempt.
I do? Have you sat next to me when I watch a game?
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2018, 12:23:46 PM
Cain is already a 3-point threat. He is shooting .458 this season and it's not a tiny sample size (22-48, about 1.8 attempts per game). His form is very good and I'm always happy to see him shoot when wide open - which he often is due to the attention that Sam, Markus and AR get.
Elliott's has shot fewer 3s (10-25), but .400 is nothing to sneeze at.
Anim is the only guard/wing on the roster who makes me say, "No!" when he decides to shoot a 3. I'm quite surprised when it goes in. But maybe he can improve in that category as JJJ did.
Froling's shot looks pretty darn good, and his teammates and coaches sure want him to take it.
Cain is 55.2% from three in Big East games.
Unleash Wally time?????????????? LEGGO. Please stop trying to spin it any other way. Wojo recruited Wally to get Henry, plain and simple he lied about not doing it. The moment Henry left for the pros Wojo burned the bridge and cut Wally to free up a scholarship. That he then failed to deliver on. Ironically Wally's athletic ability could have helped big time that year.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 28, 2018, 11:11:29 PM
Unleash Wally time?????????????? LEGGO. Please stop trying to spin it any other way. Wojo recruited Wally to get Henry, plain and simple he lied about not doing it. The moment Henry left for the pros Wojo burned the bridge and cut Wally to free up a scholarship. That he then failed to deliver on. Ironically Wally's athletic ability could have helped big time that year.
The first 80% of your post could be true. No idea.
The last sentence, no chance. We were a tournament team last year and had depth 1-4 in our 4 guard offense. Wally wasn't playing ever.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 28, 2018, 11:11:29 PM
Unleash Wally time?????????????? LEGGO. Please stop trying to spin it any other way. Wojo recruited Wally to get Henry, plain and simple he lied about not doing it. The moment Henry left for the pros Wojo burned the bridge and cut Wally to free up a scholarship. That he then failed to deliver on. Ironically Wally's athletic ability could have helped big time that year.
But we wouldn't have had a scholarship to give Harry Froling.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 28, 2018, 11:11:29 PM
Unleash Wally time?????????????? LEGGO. Please stop trying to spin it any other way. Wojo recruited Wally to get Henry, plain and simple he lied about not doing it. The moment Henry left for the pros Wojo burned the bridge and cut Wally to free up a scholarship. That he then failed to deliver on. Ironically Wally's athletic ability could have helped big time that year.
Will be interesting to see what/if your name will be next season.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 28, 2018, 09:00:23 PM
Absolutely not true about the basketball scholarship. It was not renewed for a third year. Wally only had a track scholarship offered. Wally's only option to play basketball was as a walk on which he was more than welcome to do. Ellenson family did not want to pay a years tuition for the privilege. That is why they were so bent out of shape. If you remember we were in the mist of recruiting the likes of LG Gill and Kalif Young and we needed to free up a scholarship. Markus reclassified and we signed Reinhardt. So the scholarship was needed. The bloom had not left the rose with Sandy and Traci yet. So Wally was the one.
Wally only had eligibility for the indoor track season left and that is the sport he walked away from, not basketball.
NCAA prohibits an athlete from participating in football or basketball if they have a scholarship in any other sport. This rule was put in place because Florida State was loading up their track scholarships with wide receivers from the football team in order to get around scholarships limits. A kid who is on a football or basketball scholarship can do another sport. That is the loophole Wally fell under.
Yes. Thank you for setting the record straight. TAMU brings good numbers analysis here, but contrary to his own belief, he does not always get the story correct as it relates to the behind the scenes, inner-workings of MU basketball.
It is what it is: We play the game just as cutthroat as other programs. Wojo is not running the choirboy program some want to assert (and personally I'm okay with that, but would like to see him be effective doing so, instead of taking swings and misses and in the process running off players who can contribute.)
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 11:48:35 AM
Yes. Thank you for setting the record straight. TAMU brings good numbers analysis here, but contrary to his own belief, he does not always get the story correct as it relates to the behind the scenes, inner-workings of MU basketball.
Wait...but Herman does???
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 11:48:35 AM
Yes. Thank you for setting the record straight. TAMU brings good numbers analysis here, but contrary to his own belief, he does not always get the story correct as it relates to the behind the scenes, inner-workings of MU basketball.
I don't have any knowledge of the behind the scenes, inner-workings of MU Basketball. I'm just a down home lonesome cowboy (nod to Willie) here in College Station.
I just know Herman has repeatedly tried to pass fiction as "fact verified by the MU athletic department."
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 11:48:35 AM
It is what it is: We play the game just as cutthroat as other programs. Wojo is not running the choirboy program some want to assert (and personally I'm okay with that, but would like to see him be effective doing so, instead of taking swings and misses and in the process running off players who can contribute.)
I also know that you (and others) are just speculating on this
Quote from: #bansultan on March 01, 2018, 12:05:34 PM
Wait...but Herman does???
Herman is quite connected to what has been happening in MU program over the last 6 years. Far more than 98% of us here - despite the Scoop Intelligencia's snide, condescending, and sometimes passive aggressive attempts to discredit.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
Herman is quite connected to what has been happening in MU program over the last 6 years. Far more than 98% of us here - despite the Scoop Intelligencia's snide, condescending, and sometimes passive aggressive attempts to discredit.
Then how come he has a track record of getting things wrong or presenting inaccurate information?
I mean, if you could point to "breaking news" that he has presented here, I'm willing to be corrected.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
Herman is quite connected to what has been happening in MU program over the last 6 years. Far more than 98% of us here - despite the Scoop Intelligencia's snide, condescending, and sometimes passive aggressive attempts to discredit.
I know! He was the only one knew about Wojo's contract extension that he said was already done in February. He said it was because Lovell has such a bromance with Wojo. It was such secretive information that not even Lovell or Wojo knew about it!
Or the time he claimed insider information on a recruit and then created profiles on opposing team's forums and quoted himself as the source!
Or the time he claimed that Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt because he knew the coaching staff from his original recruitment....except it was a completely different coaching staff. When called on it, he claimed that one of the assistants recruited him for a different school.....except the entire staff was either not coaching at the time or was at Valpo who didn't recruit Matt Ryan. He even posted an article as proof....that proved the opposite! When finally it was proven that he was lying he resorted to calling everyone hairy wet cats.
Or the numerous times that he's claimed that the players have quit on Wojo, don't trust him, and that he demotivates them. Yet the team still looks to be loving the program and getting better!
Not even to mention the times that he has bragged about getting women drunk to have sex with them and starting threads about glorifying child molesters. I have no idea why anyone would ever treat him in a snide or condescending way.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 01, 2018, 12:44:23 PM
I know! He was the only one knew about Wojo's contract extension that he said was already done in February. He said it was because Lovell has such a bromance with Wojo. It was such secretive information that not even Lovell or Wojo knew about it!
Or the time he claimed insider information on a recruit and then created profiles on opposing team's forums and quoted himself as the source!
Or the time he claimed that Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt because he knew the coaching staff from his original recruitment....except it was a completely different coaching staff. When called on it, he claimed that one of the assistants recruited him for a different school.....except the entire staff was either not coaching at the time or was at Valpo who didn't recruit Matt Ryan. He even posted an article as proof....that proved the opposite! When finally it was proven that he was lying he resorted to calling everyone hairy wet cats.
Or the numerous times that he's claimed that the players have quit on Wojo, don't trust him, and that he demotivates them. Yet the team still looks to be loving the program and getting better!
Don't forget his body language observations on the Grimes official visit.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 01, 2018, 12:44:23 PM
I know! He was the only one knew about Wojo's contract extension that he said was already done in February. He said it was because Lovell has such a bromance with Wojo. It was such secretive information that not even Lovell or Wojo knew about it!
Or the time he claimed insider information on a recruit and then created profiles on opposing team's forums and quoted himself as the source!
Or the time he claimed that Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt because he knew the coaching staff from his original recruitment....except it was a completely different coaching staff. When called on it, he claimed that one of the assistants recruited him for a different school.....except the entire staff was either not coaching at the time or was at Valpo who didn't recruit Matt Ryan. He even posted an article as proof....that proved the opposite! When finally it was proven that he was lying he resorted to calling everyone hairy wet cats.
Or the numerous times that he's claimed that the players have quit on Wojo, don't trust him, and that he demotivates them. Yet the team still looks to be loving the program and getting better!
Not even to mention the times that he has bragged about getting women drunk to have sex with them and starting threads about glorifying child molesters. I have no idea why anyone would ever treat him in a snide or condescending way.
Thank you for proving my point. Obsessed much? Wow. Herman is 100 percent correct about the Wally scenario. He's also correct that Lovell is VERY, very high on Wojo. I can't comment on the contract extension talks last year, yet it would not surprise me given Lovell's ridiculously amateur and unnecessarily early contract extension awarded for winning the preseason NIT 3 years ago.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Obsessed much? Wow. Herman is 100 percent correct about the Wally scenario. He's also correct that Lovell is VERY, very high on Wojo. I can't comment on the contract extension talks last year, yet it would not surprise me given Lovell's ridiculously amateur and unnecessarily early contract extension awarded for winning the preseason NIT 3 years ago.
I didn't prove your point. Your point was that HC is connected. I gave examples of how he's proven he's not (or is but also lies). Your only response is "obsessed much." Maybe. I don't think its obsession, more just a natural reflex to call out BS when I see it. It's what I get paid to do at TAMU.
There was absolutely 100% an option for Wally to keep his basketball scholarship. He didn't like the option and chose to go in a different direction. I don't blame him. Once Katin was on board his playing time was going to go from little to next to none.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Obsessed much? Wow. Herman is 100 percent correct about the Wally scenario. He's also correct that Lovell is VERY, very high on Wojo. I can't comment on the contract extension talks last year, yet it would not surprise me given Lovell's ridiculously amateur and unnecessarily early contract extension awarded for winning the preseason NIT 3 years ago.
Maybe instead of your constant need to reflexively defend your POV, you should use this as an opportunity to realize that your faith in Herman may be a bit misplaced.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 01, 2018, 12:44:23 PM
I know! He was the only one knew about Wojo's contract extension that he said was already done in February. He said it was because Lovell has such a bromance with Wojo. It was such secretive information that not even Lovell or Wojo knew about it!
Or the time he claimed insider information on a recruit and then created profiles on opposing team's forums and quoted himself as the source!
Or the time he claimed that Matt Ryan transferred to Vanderbilt because he knew the coaching staff from his original recruitment....except it was a completely different coaching staff. When called on it, he claimed that one of the assistants recruited him for a different school.....except the entire staff was either not coaching at the time or was at Valpo who didn't recruit Matt Ryan. He even posted an article as proof....that proved the opposite! When finally it was proven that he was lying he resorted to calling everyone hairy wet cats.
Or the numerous times that he's claimed that the players have quit on Wojo, don't trust him, and that he demotivates them. Yet the team still looks to be loving the program and getting better!
Not even to mention the times that he has bragged about getting women drunk to have sex with them and starting threads about glorifying child molesters. I have no idea why anyone would ever treat him in a snide or condescending way.
I need to correct this issue and be fair to Herman. Gotta get the facts correct.
He said he would have intentionally unprotected sex with girls when they were drunk.
Not necessarily getting them drunk on purpose. Or that he was the one getting them drunk. But both of those things could have been true as well.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 01, 2018, 01:02:12 PM
Thank you for proving my point. Obsessed much? Wow. Herman is 100 percent correct about the Wally scenario. He's also correct that Lovell is VERY, very high on Wojo. I can't comment on the contract extension talks last year, yet it would not surprise me given Lovell's ridiculously amateur and unnecessarily early contract extension awarded for winning the preseason NIT 3 years ago.
You've been punked and trolled. Poor fool...