https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/935183078829441024
Uhhh..?
These things happen.
Timing is weird.
Unfortunate for our defense
Quote from: mupanther on November 27, 2017, 10:33:33 AM
Timing is weird.
Yeah, makes me think something is going on at home. He's playing a bunch, and the coaches obviously trust him.
I wonder what's going on here... He always kind of seemed like an outsider on the team. but he was playing plenty and one of the only upperclassmen so interesting for him to leave. When they say personal reasons rather than decided to transfer that would at least lead me to believe it's not necessarily him disliking wojo or program. Wasn't my favorite player but added experience, was starting to drive to the hoop more effectively and played an important defensive role on the perimeter. Guess more run for the young bucks.
Wojo's first recruiting class didn't turn out so well.
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 27, 2017, 10:35:37 AM
Yeah, makes me think something is going on at home. He's playing a bunch, and the coaches obviously trust him.
Perhaps he has reached his ceiling and as the younger players progress his playing time will go down
Bizarre timing! It can't be for a lack of playing time. He has gotten every opportunity to play this season. but these things do happen...wish you well Hanny. Cut loose Sacar, GE, Jamal...Plus Hauser slides to the 3 when Frolling is eligible and start Heldt and Frolling at the 4 and 5.
Go Warriors.
This puts a lot more pressure on our freshman. Wonder how Martin's Monsters will react to this news.
Quote from: 79Warrior on November 27, 2017, 10:38:11 AM
Perhaps he has reached his ceiling and as the younger players progress his playing time will go down
Maybe, but is eligibility is already used for the year. By quitting now, his minutes are going to zero. Doesn't make sense from that perspective IMO.
Hope all is well with him and his family. Good luck on wherever he ends up playing.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on November 27, 2017, 10:36:03 AM
Wojo's first recruiting class didn't turn out so well.
Out of five signatures, one went to the NBA, two are solidly in the rotation, and one just left after starting every game to begin his Junior season.
Until an hour ago, four of the five were either very good or good signings. That doesn't seem bad.
It says personal issues, which I'm going to take literally here given the situation/circumstances heretofore laid out in this thread.
Hoping for the best for Haanif and his family, whatever the scenario may be.
EDIT: If this was a transfer situation, don't these announcements usually contain some sort of language regarding "will seek to transfer," "has been released," etc. Though unlikely, at least it would seem right now that the door still remains open on a return to the team, ala Mayo (but without the Mayo).
My guess. Family Related.
Quote from: Benny B on November 27, 2017, 10:45:46 AM
It says personal issues, which I'm going to take literally here given the situation/circumstances heretofore laid out in this thread.
Hoping for the best for Haanif and his family, whatever the scenario may be.
+1. All the best, Haanif.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 27, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
Maybe, but is eligibility is already used for the year. By quitting now, his minutes are going to zero. Doesn't make sense from that perspective IMO.
Yep, this is the best evidence that this really is family related and not basketball related. Hoping all the best for Haani.
Wish the best for haanif, thought he would transfer but not because of personal reasons
Doesn't this free up a scholie for grimes? Jk :)
Seemed happy after the LSU win in the video MU posted. Doesn't seem it's PT/role related, but wouldn't be the most shocking thing. Wojo was pretty straight forward about Cohen leaving last year for a bigger role, so I don't think he'd try to cover that story if there were anything to it.
Opens some options for mid-year transfers. Full-court push on Ramey possibly?
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 27, 2017, 10:39:57 AM
Maybe, but is eligibility is already used for the year. By quitting now, his minutes are going to zero. Doesn't make sense from that perspective IMO.
Couldn't this situation be similar to Sandy Cohen...mid-semester transfer and apply for an extra year of eligibility. So he could go somewhere and play for 1.5 more years(?).
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on November 27, 2017, 10:49:54 AM
Seemed happy after the LSU win in the video MU posted. Doesn't seem it's PT/role related, but wouldn't be the most shocking thing. Wojo was pretty straight forward about Cohen leaving last year for a bigger role, so I don't think he'd try to cover that story if there were anything to it.
Opens some options for mid-year transfers. Full-court push on Ramey possibly?
Ramey is a really good player
Quote from: ChuckyChip on November 27, 2017, 10:50:11 AM
Couldn't this situation be similar to Sandy Cohen...mid-semester transfer and apply for an extra year of eligibility. So he could go somewhere and play for 1.5 more years(?).
You would think someone playing 26 minutes through the first five games of a season would have trouble arguing that.
Quote from: ChuckyChip on November 27, 2017, 10:50:11 AM
Couldn't this situation be similar to Sandy Cohen...mid-semester transfer and apply for an extra year of eligibility. So he could go somewhere and play for 1.5 more years(?).
Then why transfer now? Why not finish the semester and transfer in December? This isn't a Maymon, Cohen or Taylor Jr. situation where Haanif isn't getting PT or putting up stats. Averaging 8.2 & 2.8 in 26.2 as a starter through five games just doesn't fit the "Cohen" mold.
This is obviously a surprise. He was getting playing time and seemed engaged on the court so I have no reason to think this is anything related to the program itself. I hope everything is ok.
From the basketball point of view it hurts. While he didn't reach the ceiling many hoped for and expected he was still a valuable member of the team. A lot of playing time just opened up for Anim, Elliott, and Cain - hopefully they can take advantage of it.
Quote from: Benny B on November 27, 2017, 10:54:16 AM
Then why transfer now? Why not finish the semester and transfer in December? This isn't a Maymon, Cohen or Taylor Jr. situation where Haanif isn't getting PT or putting up stats. Averaging 8.2 & 2.8 in 26.2 as a starter through five games just doesn't fit the "Cohen" mold.
Maybe he's looking for a school with a strength & conditioning program that will allow him to improve enough to dunk a basketball. Or a coach that will teach him how to use his right hand.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on November 27, 2017, 10:57:08 AM
Maybe he's looking for a school with a strength & conditioning program that will allow him to improve enough to dunk a basketball. Or a coach that will teach him how to use his right hand.
Calling out our S&C program is the trolliest of troll moves. Bravo.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on November 27, 2017, 10:57:08 AM
Maybe he's looking for a school with a strength & conditioning program that will allow him to improve enough to dunk a basketball. Or a coach that will teach him how to use his right hand.
Or one with "fans" that aren't a-holes
Super strange. Almost has to be family related. Basically burns 1 year of his remaining 1.5 years of eligibility. You don't do that sort of stuff unless you're absolutely miserable, or something horrible has happened with your family and you need to step away from the game completely for some time. Terrible decision for his basketball career eligibility-wise. Based on Wojo's comments, "We want to thanks Haanif for his contributions to the program and wish him the best of luck as he looks to continue his career elsewhere" sounds pretty definitive and that this is a done deal. Someone above previously had mentioned that this may be a short-term leave of absence.
His scholarship is gone for the year correct? Basically, we still have 1 opening for the current season, not 2, correct?
Every...single....year..... someone leaves. Various reasons, but hope all is well with the family.
This will hurt both this year and next, needed his height at guard, plus experience. Even though his minutes have declined. Gonna see a lot of Sacar and Elliott now.
Best of luck to Haanif, maybe comes home to FAU, FIU or someplace else close to home.
This makes it seem likely it was due to on-court issue rather than a family related thing.
"Coach Steve Wojciechowski announced the departure on Monday. He wished Cheatham luck as he looks to continue his college career elsewhere."
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 27, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
This makes it seem likely it was due to on-court issue rather than a family related thing.
"Coach Steve Wojciechowski announced the departure on Monday. He wished Cheatham luck as he looks to continue his college career elsewhere."
I don't think it says that at all. It could be an on court thing, or it could be Haanif legitimately needs to be closer to home for some reason.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 27, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
This makes it seem likely it was due to on-court issue rather than a family related thing.
"Coach Steve Wojciechowski announced the departure on Monday. He wished Cheatham luck as he looks to continue his college career elsewhere."
No it doesn't
From what I have been told, it has nothing to do with the program/Wojo and everything to do with family. Please respect his decision and appreciate what he has done in his time at MU.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 27, 2017, 11:10:59 AM
This makes it seem likely it was due to on-court issue rather than a family related thing.
"Coach Steve Wojciechowski announced the departure on Monday. He wished Cheatham luck as he looks to continue his college career elsewhere."
The timing would argue against that, I think. I think if it were basketball related he would have at least finished the semester given the time he has played already.
I hope Haanif and his family are well and wish him the best of luck.
Best of luck Haanie. Thanks for your years of service here. You represented us well and played your heart out. I hope all is well and you find success wherever your next stop is.
Next man up, hey?
and people on this board were worried we wouldn't have room for a grad transfer point guard ::)
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 27, 2017, 11:37:05 AM
and people on this board were worried we wouldn't have room for a grad transfer point guard ::)
Yep—always seems to make itself available. Never stop recruiting.
Let's hope that whatever it is, he is able to finish the semester academically.
It would be a shame to drop out with three weeks left in the semester.
Wow...that's a blow. He really seemed to have carved out a solid, solid niche here. I'm crossing my fingers that this turns out to be a Juan Anderson type situation where he reconsiders, but if not, best of luck to the young man.
Was originally against it but starting to see the benefit of 14 scholarships versus 13. With all of these transfers 1-3 schollie's per year are tied up on players who are not playing.
We are now one injury in our backcourt of being screwed this season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 11:53:49 AM
Wow...that's a blow. He really seemed to have carved out a solid, solid niche here. I'm crossing my fingers that this turns out to be a Juan Anderson type situation where he reconsiders, but if not, best of luck to the young man.
Wojo's comments made it seem pretty definitive.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 27, 2017, 12:01:56 PM
Wojo's comments made it seem pretty definitive.
Here's what Buzz said when Juan "left":
"We are incredibly grateful for all that Juan has done here on and off the floor during his tenure," Williams said.
"Because of family reasons, he feels like it is important to get back closer to home in order to support his family. We wish him the best and will cheer for him from Milwaukee."Seems just as definitive. No idea what will happen, just saying that I'd like to see Cheatham be given the opportunity to reconsider if the situation allows it, especially since just a few days ago he seemed very happy and engaged with the program.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 12:12:40 PM
Here's what Buzz said when Juan "left":
"We are incredibly grateful for all that Juan has done here on and off the floor during his tenure," Williams said. "Because of family reasons, he feels like it is important to get back closer to home in order to support his family. We wish him the best and will cheer for him from Milwaukee."
Seems just as definitive. No idea what will happen, just saying that I'd like to see Cheatham be given the opportunity to reconsider if the situation allows it, especially since just a few days ago he seemed very happy and engaged with the program.
No doubt. I certainly hope he reconsiders. We're an injury away from some serious issues, and we weren't exactly in a position to lose one of our starters and probably our 4th biggest contributor / most important player.
Quote from: ChuckyChip on November 27, 2017, 10:50:11 AM
Couldn't this situation be similar to Sandy Cohen...mid-semester transfer and apply for an extra year of eligibility. So he could go somewhere and play for 1.5 more years(?).
Doubtful he would get it with 131 minutes played already. Personal and/or injury status would have to be the appeal, versus Cohen being more of a barely set foot on the court case.
Really seems like the statement is correct and it's family related. At 26 mpg and the door wide open to take on a bigger role it's hard to fathom anything basketball-related.
Anyway, Greg Elliott, Sacar Anim, Jamal Cain, have at it. They weren't really "blocked" from PT as is, but now they're very needed.
Sad to see him leave, have heard he is a very nice person, class act. On the court, he was OK defensively, issues on the offensive side. This year they needed him,
next year different story. This really can help MU next year as there is a glaring weakness at the point guard position. A grad transfer is what I would be hoping for
or a freshman who is good enough to play right away decent minutes. One thing about college hoops and players, it is very fluid. At least he had a week in Hawaii,
nice final trip.
Will MU waive ike eke redshirt now?
On 11/11 he posted on Instagram a pic of him and heldt that says came in together - going out together-so doesn't sound like he had any idea of transferring two and half weeks ago
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on November 27, 2017, 12:43:55 PM
Will MU waive ike eke redshirt now?
To replace a wing player? I wouldn't think so.
MU has Anim, Elliot and Cain to fill that role.
Really, of any of the five starters, losing Haanif hurts the least (not that it's at all a good thing ... just the easiest loss to recover from).
My best to Hanni. I'm sorry to see him go and trust that his presence close to his family will have a meaningful impact on whatever issues are of a concern.
We're men and women for others. We understand and we hope that Mr. Cheatham uses what he has learned at MU as a stepping stone to great things in his life.
Quote from: CAGASS24 on November 27, 2017, 12:46:12 PM
On 11/11 he posted on Instagram a pic of him and heldt that says came in together - going out together-so doesn't sound like he had any idea of transferring two and half weeks ago
Sheet—so Now we wait for the Heldt announcement. ;)
It is about the minutes and how he was used.....from his perception.
I imagine he believed with the hard work he put in this summer, he had higher expectations. Remember, these are kids....they go back to their room and play video games after being on national tv.
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 27, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
It is about the minutes and how he was used.....from his perception.
Do you know this? Or is this a guess?
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 27, 2017, 12:54:26 PM
Do you know this? Or is this a guess?
Seriously. So he burns 66% of his remaining eligibility because of it? It is so short-sighted I don't buy it. Plus, the guy is getting 25+ MPG...not sure what else he could ask for.
Good luck, young man.
Maybe Big Daddy might have more info?
0 surprise, I just expected it after the season. Sacar and elliot are both better. Hawaii only confirmed it.
Good luck to Haani - he seems like a really nice young man. He'll be missed this year from a depth standpoint, but he's not a starting caliber player on a team with Big East upper echelon/championship aspirations. Hopefully whoever takes his spot will be.
Best of luck to Cheatham. I wonder if he'll sit 3 semesters to play a full season elsewhere.
Need to add a guard for next year. This is why I never oppose over signing. It'll take care of itself.
For this year, Anim starts at the 3 and Elliott gets major minutes of the bench. Cain can earn more minutes, too. Sam might need to play more 3 after Froling is eligible.
Short term: Baptism by fire for both Elliot and Cain. Force feed them minutes during the cupcake stretch. No other choice. Take the red shirt off of Eke. Still have the option for next year if it looks like he won't play. The team needs him now, even if it is for 3-4 minute bursts. Start working on two-big sets, move Sam to the 3. Practice zone. Going to need to slow the game down on defense.
Long term: Start recruiting guards. Multiple. Assume another departure.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 01:02:03 PM
0 surprise, I just expected it after the season. Sacar and elliot are both better. Hawaii only confirmed it.
The only game where Sacar outplayed him, and where Elliott POSSIBLY outplayed him, was LSU.
Other than that, Haanif was better in two out of three games - significantly better v. VCU.
For all those trying to find a possible reason, sick uncle, lost cat, etc. plz remember 99.99999% of transfer are related to playingtime/role.
His roll during winning time was vanishing. Sacar does everything haanif did but better.
Disappointing news. I would say if anything we are not quite as good today as we were yesterday. Don't think you can overstate the experience he brought to the team.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
Short term: Baptism by fire for both Elliot and Cain. Force feed them minutes during the cupcake stretch. No other choice. Take the red shirt off of Eke. Still have the option for next year if it looks like he won't play. The team needs him now, even if it is for 3-4 minute bursts. Start working on two-big sets, move Sam to the 3. Practice zone. Going to need to slow the game down on defense.
Long term: Start recruiting guards. Multiple. Assume another departure.
Remove ekes redshirt for the 5? Games until Froling becomes eligible ?
Quote from: jonny09 on November 27, 2017, 01:10:23 PM
Disappointing news. I would say if anything we are not quite as good today as we were yesterday. Don't think you can overstate the experience he brought to the team.
Agree
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 01:10:57 PM
Remove ekes redshirt for the 5? Games until Froling becomes eligible ?
I see this as increasing Cain's playing time and helping our Offense and Rebounding. He will have a chance to accelerate his development.
Sad to see Haanif go. A solid player and a great kid. I hope his personal situation isn't serious, and he lands where it works best for him.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
Short term: Baptism by fire for both Elliot and Cain. Force feed them minutes during the cupcake stretch. No other choice. Take the red shirt off of Eke. Still have the option for next year if it looks like he won't play. The team needs him now, even if it is for 3-4 minute bursts. Start working on two-big sets, move Sam to the 3. Practice zone. Going to need to slow the game down on defense.
Long term: Start recruiting guards. Multiple. Assume another departure.
Strongly disagree about this being a reason to remove Eke's redshirt.
I thought it was apparent that his minutes would dwindle as the season progressed. His game didn't improve much in his time here and the more inexperienced players started showing flashes of real ability.
Best of luck to Haanif.
He will certainly be missed on the court. After 5 games, he's fourth on the team in minutes played, field goals attempts and makes, three-point attempts and makes, points scored and rebounds. Tied for first in steals. Maybe not the rising star we expected after his freshman season, but a solid starter and contributor as a junior.
That's a far different scenario than players such as Traci Carter or Sandy Cohen, who found themselves struggling for playing time at the end of the rotation.
Initially at least, Haanif's departure could be a big blow. Let's hope we see continued development from Sacar, Greg and Jamal.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 01:14:39 PM
Not doing it for the next 5 games. Going forward as a team, MU should dress 10 every night. Start running two-big sets. Play Ike next to Matt or Harry after Theo gets in foul trouble. Even if it is 5 minutes a game so that somebody can sit with 2 fouls in the first half, it will be worth it.
I don't see much benefit there. If you want to play two bigs, play Heldt and Froling together and push Sam to the wing. Froling is more of a stretch four than a true pivot anyhow.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 27, 2017, 01:18:56 PM
Strongly disagree about this being a reason to remove Eke's redshirt.
I agree, he has not played BB for many years and I think a Red Shirt year would add so much more value to his game. Just hope we don' need him and keep the RS alive.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 01:09:16 PM
For all those trying to find a possible reason, sick uncle, lost cat, etc. plz remember 99.99999% of transfer are related to playingtime/role.
His roll during winning time was vanishing. Sacar does everything haanif did but better.
Disagree. Sacar is not better at this point based on 5 games.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 27, 2017, 01:04:11 PM
Best of luck to Cheatham. I wonder if he'll sit 3 semesters to play a full season elsewhere.
This is the part I don't get. If it was playing time related, why not finish the season, then transfer, sit out a year and then play a year.
Leaving now, one of three things has to happen.
1. He appeals to the NCAA and somehow gets to transfer and play 1.5 seasons elsewhere. Don't see where his appeal is, though, if it is truly the playing situation.
2. He finds someone to give him a scholarship for next year and plays just the second semester.
3. He sits out the balance of this season and all of next for one season of playing time.
Unless 1 is possible, isn't finishing the season here and then transferring a better option than either 2 or 3? Or am I missing an option he has?
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 27, 2017, 12:49:39 PM
It is about the minutes and how he was used.....from his perception.
Not saying you're wrong, just saying this isn't at all what I was told.
Wow. Very sorry to see Haani leave. Fine young man. Hope everything is okay. Best wishes and thanks for your contribution to #mubb.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 01:06:45 PM
Short term: Baptism by fire for both Elliot and Cain. Force feed them minutes during the cupcake stretch. No other choice. Take the red shirt off of Eke. Still have the option for next year if it looks like he won't play. The team needs him now, even if it is for 3-4 minute bursts. Start working on two-big sets, move Sam to the 3. Practice zone. Going to need to slow the game down on defense.
Long term: Start recruiting guards. Multiple. Assume another departure.
Assume another departure? Are you saying there is another shoe to drop? or is this just part of the "never Stop Recruiting" mantra?
From a basketball/playtime view this makes no sense. Even if he was upset with his role (which I doubt) theres no point in transferring in November when your a starter. Either December or June makes much more sense. I believe this truly to be family related, though I find it odd that he would be released instead of a leave of absence.
Quote from: WE R FINAL FOUR on November 27, 2017, 11:49:46 AM
Yep—always seems to make itself available. Never stop recruiting.
True dat
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 27, 2017, 01:28:12 PM
This is the part I don't get. If it was playing time related, why not finish the season, then transfer, sit out a year and then play a year.
Leaving now, one of three things has to happen.
1. He appeals to the NCAA and somehow gets to transfer and play 1.5 seasons elsewhere. Don't see where his appeal is, though, if it is truly the playing situation.
2. He finds someone to give him a scholarship for next year and plays just the second semester.
3. He sits out the balance of this season and all of next for one season of playing time.
Unless 1 is possible, isn't finishing the season here and then transferring a better option than either 2 or 3? Or am I missing an option he has?
Exactly. He is literally burning nearly 70% of his remaining eligibility. He doesn't have a case for a waiver. The tea leaves say something significant must have happened, or his decision making isn't very strong.
Quote from: onepostwarrior on November 27, 2017, 01:34:55 PM
Not saying you're wrong, just saying this isn't at all what I was told.
Please do share.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcAuT_oF45i/?hl=en
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 27, 2017, 02:07:00 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcAuT_oF45i/?hl=en
Well that clears up...nothing.
I don't think this is at all playing time related. Haanif was starting and ranked in the top four in minutes, points, and rebounds. This isn't an opportunity issue like Sandy or Dawson, it's a life issue like Juan or Deonte. Considering he just had a successful tournament where he seemed happy, I'm guessing it's something serious. Tough timing, we've got a big week coming up to be short handed.
A class exit. We don't know all that's going on here other than face value. And that's ok.
I watched as my two sons went from boys to men, 18 to 22. life gets more complicated and maybe for Hanif other things got more important than marquette basketball. I wish for him a hopeful future...just like Todd and Sandy and John and Steve and Deonte and Traci and all those guys that didn't feel they fit for one reason or other.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 27, 2017, 01:41:52 PM
Assume another departure? Are you saying there is another shoe to drop? or is this just part of the "never Stop Recruiting" mantra?
Never stop recruiting. Always assume someone is leaving.
Wasn't fan of the Eke redshirt. I think it made a lot more sense to redshirt him as a sophomore when we should have a lot more depth. I don't think he would get a lot of minutes but he could be run out there with Heldt/Harry, pushing Sam to the wing.
That being said, Haanie's sudden departure goes to show why if you want to redshirt a player you do it as soon as your roster allows it. I'm assuming we will have a lot of depth next season but rosters can change in the blink of an eye. Wojo knows the abilities of our players a lot better than I do. If he thinks Eke needs a year, he is probably right.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 27, 2017, 02:19:20 PM
I don't think this is at all playing time related. Haanif was starting and ranked in the top four in minutes, points, and rebounds. This isn't an opportunity issue like Sandy or Dawson, it's a life issue like Juan or Deonte. Considering he just had a successful tournament where he seemed happy, I'm guessing it's something serious. Tough timing, we've got a big week coming up to be short handed.
With nothing to go on but my gut, I think Haanif wanted to be the man. He was given a lot of opportunity as a freshman (remember him as a PG over Traci), was thought to take over as a soph, came back and worked this summer to be the man as a junior and realized out in Hawaii, that he was not nor will he ever be the man at Marquette.
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2017, 02:22:26 PM
Never stop recruiting. Always assume someone is leaving.
Based on anything or just riling up the Scoopers?
Already followed a coach from UGA. That was quick.
https://twitter.com/CoachJonas
Looks like a coach he was familiar with during recruiting. http://www.givengobasketball.com/narrowing-down-lists
Maybe its non-basketball But Wojo has now had several of these early season transfers and I can't help but he has got to have a role in it continuing to happen. Similar to Traci last year. While it was true that there were guys emerging that would have pushed him down the depth chart (Markus and Rowsey) Traci still could have been valuable last year. It almost seems like Wojo has 2 views on his players. A. You are good, getting better and you're valuable or B. You're not getting better, we have someone else now who is, Good Bye. A team needs 4 year seniors even if by then they are role players. I remember Chapman was a limited role player by the time he was a senior but he stayed on the roster and played a valuable role. Guys should be encouraged to stay with the team at least through the current basketball season.
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs. There certainly seems to be a trend and this time it can't be blamed on "we he wasn't a guy Wojo recruited, you have to expect that".
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 27, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Maybe its non-basketball But Wojo has now had several of these early season transfers and I can't help but he has got to have a role in it continuing to happen. Similar to Traci last year. While it was true that there were guys emerging that would have pushed him down the depth chart (Markus and Rowsey) Traci still could have been valuable last year. It almost seems like Wojo has 2 views on his players. A. You are good, getting better and you're valuable or B. You're not getting better, we have someone else now who is, Good Bye. A team needs 4 year seniors even if by then they are role players. I remember Chapman was a limited role player by the time he was a senior but he stayed on the roster and played a valuable role. Guys should be encouraged to stay with the team at least through the current basketball season.
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs. There certainly seems to be a trend and this time it can't be blamed on "we he wasn't a guy Wojo recruited, you have to expect that".
The way college hoops (particulary transfers) worked 10 years ago is now how it works today...Transfers ARE going to happen. Every.Single.Year....
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 27, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Maybe its non-basketball But Wojo has now had several of these early season transfers and I can't help but he has got to have a role in it continuing to happen. Similar to Traci last year. While it was true that there were guys emerging that would have pushed him down the depth chart (Markus and Rowsey) Traci still could have been valuable last year. It almost seems like Wojo has 2 views on his players. A. You are good, getting better and you're valuable or B. You're not getting better, we have someone else now who is, Good Bye. A team needs 4 year seniors even if by then they are role players. I remember Chapman was a limited role player by the time he was a senior but he stayed on the roster and played a valuable role. Guys should be encouraged to stay with the team at least through the current basketball season.
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs. There certainly seems to be a trend and this time it can't be blamed on "we he wasn't a guy Wojo recruited, you have to expect that".
A lot of wrong in here.
Not trying to rile anyone. Looking objectively at the nature of college basketball where 40% of all players transfer, it is imperative to never stop recruiting and only prudent to assume there will be transfers.
Two years with 1 senior, HC was so good as a frosh, I loved his game but I felt he was a little
homesick and is a Florida kid, so will we ever know why he left?
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 27, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Maybe its non-basketball But Wojo has now had several of these early season transfers and I can't help but he has got to have a role in it continuing to happen. Similar to Traci last year. While it was true that there were guys emerging that would have pushed him down the depth chart (Markus and Rowsey) Traci still could have been valuable last year. It almost seems like Wojo has 2 views on his players. A. You are good, getting better and you're valuable or B. You're not getting better, we have someone else now who is, Good Bye. A team needs 4 year seniors even if by then they are role players. I remember Chapman was a limited role player by the time he was a senior but he stayed on the roster and played a valuable role. Guys should be encouraged to stay with the team at least through the current basketball season.
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs. There certainly seems to be a trend and this time it can't be blamed on "we he wasn't a guy Wojo recruited, you have to expect that".
I don't agree with everything here but I'll admit that I am concerned about this trend. 5 midseason transfers in 4 years is way above the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if we led D1 with that number. It's hard to build a successful program with that kind of turnover.
Oddly, HC is the 4th midseason transfer from the Big East this season. There have only been 14 announced so far. 4/14 from one conference is surprising.
Tower
Rest assured, you did not rile this Scooper.
I'm not any more or less bothered by the transfers because they're mid-year. If anything it seems like Wojo is pretty straight up with guys in November/December, and gives them the chance to do what's best for the eligibility/college experience they have left.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 27, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
Maybe its non-basketball But Wojo has now had several of these early season transfers and I can't help but he has got to have a role in it continuing to happen. Similar to Traci last year. While it was true that there were guys emerging that would have pushed him down the depth chart (Markus and Rowsey) Traci still could have been valuable last year. It almost seems like Wojo has 2 views on his players. A. You are good, getting better and you're valuable or B. You're not getting better, we have someone else now who is, Good Bye. A team needs 4 year seniors even if by then they are role players. I remember Chapman was a limited role player by the time he was a senior but he stayed on the roster and played a valuable role. Guys should be encouraged to stay with the team at least through the current basketball season.
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs. There certainly seems to be a trend and this time it can't be blamed on "we he wasn't a guy Wojo recruited, you have to expect that".
Traci was encouraged to stay.......I have little doubt that Haney was as well.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 27, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
Oddly, HC is the 4th midseason transfer from the Big East this season. There have only been 14 announced so far. 4/14 from one conference is surprising.
Who are the other 3?
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on November 27, 2017, 02:38:47 PM
Already followed a coach from UGA. That was quick.
https://twitter.com/CoachJonas
Looks like a coach he was familiar with during recruiting. http://www.givengobasketball.com/narrowing-down-lists
Well, this would explain the timing. If he's joining Georgia, he probably wouldn't want to suit up against them this Saturday.
Quote from: Wojos Blueprint on November 27, 2017, 02:54:41 PM
Two years with 1 senior, HC was so good as a frosh, I loved his game but I felt he was a little
homesick and is a Florida kid, so will we ever know why he left?
Homesick as a junior in freakin' college? Please.
Quote from: 21rooster on November 27, 2017, 03:07:08 PM
Well, this would explain the timing. If he's joining Georgia, he probably wouldn't want to suit up against them this Saturday.
Why not?
Quote from: NotAnAlum on November 27, 2017, 02:39:22 PM
I have no inside information. But midseason departures for reasons other than discipline or grades are not the norm at most programs.
Not sure that's really the case.
Last year, there were 67 mid-season transfers from at least 50 programs, including the likes of Wichita State, Georgetown, Arizona State, Kansas, Miami and Kansas State, among others.
The year before saw 95 midseason transfers, from schools including Duke, Kansas, Arizona, Stanford and Louisville.
I don't think it's a good thing to see it happen as frequently as it has, but I'm not especially troubled either. It happens.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on November 27, 2017, 03:19:37 PM
Why not?
If you're planning on being part of Georgia's team in a few weeks, do you really want to be part of an effort to worsen their record? Either Cheatham would become partly responsible for one of his future team's losses, or he wouldn't have his heart in the game. I don't see Cheatham as the type of kid that would do that to his current team or his future team. If Georgia is the destination, the timing is logical.
Or Haanif had been discussing a release with Wojo, and when he found out Georgia was an option, Wojo said he had to leave immediately.
Now I need to change my avatar. B.S.
Cheeto will be missed. He has played some great D, and prompted the run to secure the LSU win (short memories) or at least turn the momentum back in our favor.
Best of luck young man!
Quote from: MuMark on November 27, 2017, 03:03:15 PM
Traci was encouraged to stay.......I have little doubt that Haney was as well.
I'm sure they both were "encouraged" to stay - but players have inflated opinions of what their roles should be.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 27, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
Homesick as a junior in freakin' college? Please.
Life at home changes. Could very well be the reason. (Ordinarily, I generally agree. But not having the facts of what's going on at home, can't make that judgement)
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 27, 2017, 03:01:14 PM
Not a guess.
Well that is a surprise since he was injured and was probably a bit behind and he was top 4 in minutes.
Quote from: 21rooster on November 27, 2017, 03:23:20 PM
If you're planning on being part of Georgia's team in a few weeks, do you really want to be part of an effort to worsen their record? Either Cheatham would become partly responsible for one of his future team's losses, or he wouldn't have his heart in the game. I don't see Cheatham as the type of kid that would do that to his current team or his future team. If Georgia is the destination, the timing is logical.
Wouldn't a team actively recruiting a guy on another roster (ie: Georgia recruiting Haani prior to release) be a serious recruiting infraction / tampering?
Just because he is following a Georgia coach doesn't mean he will end up there.
We have had some transfer candidates who have followed Stan or Nelson who didn't end up here.
I'm sure HC will explore his options and make the best decision for himself and his family.
Quote from: The Lens on November 27, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
With nothing to go on but my gut, I think Haanif wanted to be the man. He was given a lot of opportunity as a freshman (remember him as a PG over Traci), was thought to take over as a soph, came back and worked this summer to be the man as a junior and realized out in Hawaii, that he was not nor will he ever be the man at Marquette.
I have the same feeling. Between Wojo's wording of looking elsewhere to play and Haani's announcement of open a new chapter, I double down on my statement that this is on-court related.
There were a couple of times during the tournament I saw him open on the 3-point line waiving for the ball and it never came. Purely anecdotal I know, but I believe he is looking for a bigger role.
Unfortunate no matter the reason, he was far and away my favorite player his freshman year.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 27, 2017, 03:27:57 PM
Or Haanif had been discussing a release with Wojo, and when he found out Georgia was an option, Wojo said he had to leave immediately.
Not to rumor monger but that would make sense if you're in Wojo's seat.
I really thought after his frosh year, Cheatham was really going to be a stud. Sucks to see him go, hope he's successful where ever he ends up. Seems like a good young man.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 01:02:03 PM
0 surprise, I just expected it after the season. Sacar and elliot are both better. Hawaii only confirmed it.
I thought he would transfer after last season. I got butchered here for predicting that. I did think he was going to leave after this season, because someone was going if we landed Grimes. For some reason Haanif really did not seem to be happy. It simply may of been him seeing himself as not playing up to his expectations. It surprises me when anyone transfers during the season. As far as playing time I could see where his time was going to take a big hit when Froling becomes eligible as Froling might start at power forward and Sam would then move to small forward.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on November 27, 2017, 01:10:57 PM
Remove ekes redshirt for the 5? Games until Froling becomes eligible ?
In 2011, Jeff Goodman's transfer list included 291 players. In 2015, the number was 850. That's an average of more than two transfers for every program in NCAA Division I college basketball.
This is not unique to Marquette, or to Wojo, or to the Big East. The sky is not falling. The sport is simply changing to reflect a changing landscape. Always has, always will.
https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/ncaa-hoops-transfer-trend-worries-coaches/article_575f9880-fc5e-594e-8b37-2c475f5cd792.html (https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/ncaa-hoops-transfer-trend-worries-coaches/article_575f9880-fc5e-594e-8b37-2c475f5cd792.html)
Quote from: MUfan12 on November 27, 2017, 02:07:00 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcAuT_oF45i/?hl=en
If anyone here is on Instagram, scroll down in the comments and tell kevinking9172 that he's an idiot.
Or, if kevinking9172 happens to visit this site, you're an idiot.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 27, 2017, 02:55:55 PM
I don't agree with everything here but I'll admit that I am concerned about this trend. 5 midseason transfers in 4 years is way above the norm. I wouldn't be surprised to learn if we led D1 with that number. It's hard to build a successful program with that kind of turnover.
Oddly, HC is the 4th midseason transfer from the Big East this season. There have only been 14 announced so far. 4/14 from one conference is surprising.
If it's truly a pressing family issue then all the best, bball is just a game, family is what matters.
But if this is an on-court issue, I sure hope having a short bench doesn't come back to bite us for VT, Georgia or UW. Those are likely make or break games for our tourney hopes. If Wojo couldn't convince him to stick around for that stretch - when he wouldn't be burning any more eligibility - you've got to be a bit concerned.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on November 27, 2017, 04:02:16 PM
If anyone here is on Instagram, scroll down in the comments and tell kevinking9172 that he's an idiot.
Or, if kevinking9172 happens to visit this site, you're an idiot.
You are focusing on the wrong comments and users in the IG comments for insight.....
Haanif has aspirations to play after college. Thought opportunities exist elsewhere better than Marquette to make that happen. Thought he wasn't highlighted enough.
Best of luck to Haanif.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 27, 2017, 04:37:03 PM
You are focusing on the wrong comments and users in the IG comments for insight.....
Haanif has aspirations to play after college. Thought opportunities exist elsewhere better than Marquette to make that happen. Thought he wasn't highlighted enough.
Best of luck to Haanif.
I don't know Haanif or the situation in this instance at all.
But as a generic response, I don't buy this "best of luck" if the situation is such that a player walks away - midseason - because they're unhappy with playing time or think that can get a better gig elsewhere. That's millennial snowflake BS. By walking away you let your coach down, your teammates down, and you're letting down the institution that has invested 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in you. If you're not happy with the situation you do your best to mitigate the impact on those things (coach, team, uni) before you go (i.e. giving plenty of heads up so a replacement can be recruited).
Quote from: 1SE on November 27, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
But as a generic response, I don't buy this "best of luck" if the situation is such that a player walks away - midseason - because they're unhappy with playing time or think that can get a better gig elsewhere. That's millennial snowflake BS. By walking away you let your coach down, your teammates down, and you're letting down the institution that has invested 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in you. If you're not happy with the situation you do your best to mitigate the impact on those things (coach, team, uni) before you go (i.e. giving plenty of heads up so a replacement can be recruited).
No.
Quote from: 1SE on November 27, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
I don't know Haanif or the situation in this instance at all.
You probably should have stopped here.
Wicked bummer for the team.
But good on Haanif for doing whatever it is that is important to him. Hopefully it all works out for him.
Transfers is no longer the exception. It is now the Norm.
Next man up.
Quote from: 1SE on November 27, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
I don't know Haanif or the situation in this instance at all.
But as a generic response, I don't buy this "best of luck" if the situation is such that a player walks away - midseason - because they're unhappy with playing time or think that can get a better gig elsewhere. That's millennial snowflake BS. By walking away you let your coach down, your teammates down, and you're letting down the institution that has invested 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in you. If you're not happy with the situation you do your best to mitigate the impact on those things (coach, team, uni) before you go (i.e. giving plenty of heads up so a replacement can be recruited).
Fun fact, none of the Marquette players owe you nor Marquette anything.
Wow. Sad for him.
Could it have been the injury?
I thought he was playing well for someone who missed most of the pre-season, and had only upside through the year.
Good luck to him with whatever the situation, and of course with basketball.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 27, 2017, 03:35:12 PM
Well that is a surprise since he was injured and was probably a bit behind and he was top 4 in minutes.
I thought that too initially, but my source has been solid in the past.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 27, 2017, 04:37:03 PM
You are focusing on the wrong comments and users in the IG comments for insight.....
Haanif has aspirations to play after college. Thought opportunities exist elsewhere better than Marquette to make that happen. Thought he wasn't highlighted enough.
Best of luck to Haanif.
After all the airballs he has shot this year from less than 10 feet, i would argue he was being highlighted too much.
In all seriousness, i think one thing Wojo does is let tge players play. Many a program has severe limitations on what pkayers are allowed to do. Wojo let haanif n others tremendous latitude on shot selection. Hasnif shot whenever he wanted without repercussion, in many cases he should not have from a statistical standpoint. Seemed like a great kid and with his experience he could have helped us this year, but by next year had little or no place in the lineup. Was always the one i assumed would leave if we signed another recruit. Ala steve taylor would have been a good move for him to sit out a yr and continue to work on his body and game before that 5th yr senior year.
It's not playing time or usage related.
Well that makes (I think), 4 who claim to know why he left. 2 say on-court. 2 say off-court.
Already cut Haanif out of the "Pray" video. They work fast.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on November 27, 2017, 04:37:03 PM
You are focusing on the wrong comments and users in the IG comments for insight.....
Haanif has aspirations to play after college. Thought opportunities exist elsewhere better than Marquette to make that happen. Thought he wasn't highlighted enough.
Best of luck to Haanif.
Best of luck to him, but he was given plenty of opportunity.
My source says. . . Wait, I don't have a source! Anyway, I think this will be better for the program in the long run. I kept waiting for him to be better. All I kept seeing is a left handed only player that couldn't shoot or seem like he could even dunk it. Teams overplayed his left hand and he didn't seem effective going to the right.
Was he a player that reached his plateau? It seems like the newer players are more athletic and dynamic and have a higher ceiling. If he was going to be the man then he would be the man by now.
That being said, thanks for the years on the team. I don't look at another transfer and think there is something wrong with Wojo. It is just the status of the game today.
Better in the long run? Nonsense. Guy was a contributor. Period.
Wojo said after the game that it was a family matter.
I think Haanif despite being a great kid and member of this team is listening to someone talking nonsense.... he hasn't liked his role for a while and things he can make it to the next level. As we all know, the grass isn't always greener. Too bad
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 27, 2017, 05:15:01 PM
Fun fact, none of the Marquette players owe you nor Marquette anything.
Fun fact #2. Nobody on Scoop owes Haanif Cheatham anything either. Almost all of us are wishing him well nonetheless.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 27, 2017, 09:55:04 PM
Wojo said after the game that it was a family matter.
Came here to post that. He roughly said there was a family situation that Haani felt he needed to be closer to home to deal with.
It's a big loss, and could very well be the difference between post-season and not.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 27, 2017, 09:55:04 PM
Wojo said after the game that it was a family matter.
I think some posters on this board know the situation better than Wojo, should probably just take their word on it.
Hope he does well from here on out.
Hoops-wise, it hurts our depth. But frankly, there are better players at his position both on our roster and in the recruiting pipeline.
Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on November 27, 2017, 09:58:14 PM
I think Haanif despite being a great kid and member of this team is listening to someone talking nonsense.... he hasn't liked his role for a while and things he can make it to the next level. As we all know, the grass isn't always greener. Too bad
Source? Seems like the "listening to someone talking nonsense" is becoming our "didn't have the grades"
Unless there is something tangible we should assume that he and Wojo are being truthful yet considerate of each others privacy. I hope he does great, seems like a good kid
Amazing how many of us keep running without the Ball.
Quote from: 1SE on November 27, 2017, 04:46:48 PM
I don't know Haanif or the situation in this instance at all.
But as a generic response, I don't buy this "best of luck" if the situation is such that a player walks away - midseason - because they're unhappy with playing time or think that can get a better gig elsewhere. That's millennial snowflake BS. By walking away you let your coach down, your teammates down, and you're letting down the institution that has invested 10s if not 100s of thousands of dollars in you. If you're not happy with the situation you do your best to mitigate the impact on those things (coach, team, uni) before you go (i.e. giving plenty of heads up so a replacement can be recruited).
Haanif is just pulling himself up by his bootstraps and taking personal responsibility for his situation. This is rugged individualism at its finest.
Quote from: The Deane Team on November 27, 2017, 10:17:26 PM
I think some posters on this board know the situation better than Wojo, should probably just take their word on it.
Wise thinking here. I'm on board. Bring me more Scoop explanations! #Wojofakenews
Just go watch first 30 seconds of Wojo post game pressser. He directly addressed the Haani situation. Family matter. They spoke over the weekend. Wojo specifically addressed that he's not coming back and projected that he'll transfer to a school "in Florida".
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 27, 2017, 03:06:15 PM
Who are the other 3?
Levi Cook (DePaul), Jared Ridder (X), Cooper Neese (Butler). All three were Jameel McKay type midseason transfers. Might qualify for waivers but might not.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 27, 2017, 10:47:01 PM
Just go watch first 30 seconds of Wojo post game pressser. He directly addressed the Haani situation. Family matter. They spoke over the weekend. Wojo specifically addressed that he's not coming back and projected that he'll transfer to a school "in Florida".
I'm gonna go with the coach on this one but someone talking nonsense to Hanni is a real close second.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 27, 2017, 10:50:53 PM
Levi Cook (DePaul), Jared Ridder (X), Cooper Neese (Butler). All three were Jameel McKay type midseason transfers. Might qualify for waivers but might not.
Thanks
I gotta believe Wojo on this one. As I said before, I wish him well.
To the extent basketball entered the picture, one has to believe that the aggressive recruitment of Quentin Grimes sent a message to Mr. Cheatham. With Greg Elliott, Marcus Howard, Sacar Anim and soon, Brendan Bailey, Mr. Cheatham's future at Marquette was very limited. Had we landed Mr. Grimes, I had thought that Mr. Cheatham would be player most likely to leave.
In the end, it's college basketball. Players come and go. We hope for the best and thank the players for the joy they gave us while their's and our path cross.
Quote from: Anti-Dentite on November 27, 2017, 10:52:38 PM
I'm gonna go with the coach on this one but someone talking nonsense to Hanni is a real close second.
I heard he couldn't keep his grades up but his dog telling him he should move home over Thanksgiving break is a close second.
Wait, won't the next man up also. . . Be a contributor . . Period?
Curious to learn what the "family matter" is.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on November 28, 2017, 06:28:24 AM
Curious to learn what the "family matter" is.
(https://media1.s-nbcnews.com/i/newscms/2017_39/1285299/family-matters-today-tease-170928_aca81ac1096d27f3a894829f4897c8ff.jpg)
Haanif is a good kid. He worked hard in school and represented MU well. He was doing well this season, starting and playing good minutes. Part of the reason I felt our team was going to do well was Haanifs return to form.
There is some precedent for transfer waivers to family reason. Michigan State Bryn Forbes was a notable recent case.
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/08/bryn_forbes_granted_ncaa_waive.html
Hopefully , Haanif finds a new home and does well going forward. I will be rooting for him.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 27, 2017, 10:47:01 PM
Just go watch first 30 seconds of Wojo post game pressser. He directly addressed the Haani situation. Family matter. They spoke over the weekend. Wojo specifically addressed that he's not coming back and projected that he'll transfer to a school "in Florida".
But Wojo knows nothing, Scoop knows all!!
After reading Benny B's post, I'm just not going to speculate.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on November 28, 2017, 06:28:24 AM
Curious to learn what the "family matter" is.
Not necessarily directed at Stretch, but curiosity about "personal matters" used to be about empathy and/or a desire to help. I'm not talking about 50 years ago... I'm talking less than a couple decades ago. These days, it seems less about genuine concern and more about people feeling entitled to know what's going on in everyone's lives.
I'm sure with just about everyone's life story being out there on social media, "reality TV," etc., it's not helping the situation. Schadenfreude has been taken to a new level if you ask me... instead of simply reveling in another's misery, it's almost as though people can't feel good about themselves unless they see something bad happening to someone else.
Again, not directed at Stretch... back in the day before internet, innocuous comments didn't usually trigger a rant.
Best of luck to Haanif, he represented us well, I think he will end up at FGCU. He's from Fort Lauderdale and if it's a family matter I would think he would want to be as close to home as possible. There is also a Marquette connection as Jamil Jones is an alum of FGCU now.
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 28, 2017, 07:38:48 AM
But Wojo knows nothing, Scoop knows all!!
After getting some inside scoop on this situation, family matter is as good as an excuse as any. Cheatham wants to play at the next level, wants to be the man, he
was never going to be the man at MU. He wants to be the man. Simple as that. Did not like the role he was playing at MU. Good luck in the future, hope it works out
for him. Wojo probably told him the truth about his abilities, sometimes players do not want to hear it. Oh well.
Godspeed Mr Cheatham
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 28, 2017, 10:22:29 AM
After getting some inside scoop on this situation, family matter is as good as an excuse as any. Cheatham wants to play at the next level, wants to be the man, he
was never going to be the man at MU. He wants to be the man. Simple as that. Did not like the role he was playing at MU. Good luck in the future, hope it works out
for him. Wojo probably told him the truth about his abilities, sometimes players do not want to hear it. Oh well.
This just doesn't make sense to me. Even if it were true that he was unhappy with his role, he is giving away at least 25 games of experience and getting nothing back. If he wants to play a full season of basketball at his new school, he'll have to wait just shy of two years to do it (Nov 2019), unless he can get a waiver, which seems unlikely unless there is a real family issue. Why not finish the season and the school year, then transfer? You'll get the same amount of playing time at the new school, plus 25+ more games at Marquette, where you are getting big minutes. There's no downside unless you are totally miserable.
Seems to me it has to be something else.
So he wants to sit out 13 months to play half a season or sit out 23 months to play a full season....
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 28, 2017, 10:31:53 AM
This just doesn't make sense to me. Even if it were true that he was unhappy with his role, he is giving away at least 25 games of experience and getting nothing back. If he wants to play a full season of basketball at his new school, he'll have to wait just shy of two years to do it (Nov 2019), unless he can get a waiver, which seems unlikely unless there is a real family issue. Why not finish the season and the school year, then transfer? You'll get the same amount of playing time at the new school, plus 25+ more games at Marquette, where you are getting big minutes. There's no downside unless you are totally miserable.
Seems to me it has to be something else.
Traci Carter did not like is role either, Sandy Cohen did not like his role either, it happens. Your right, it makes no sense. If you want to be the man, show it on the court, I did not see it at all.
Quote from: naginiF on November 27, 2017, 11:17:23 PM
I heard he couldn't keep his grades up but his dog telling him he should move home over Thanksgiving break is a close second.
This was going to be one of my questions.
After Hawaii did the team members get a day or two at home for Thanksgiving break? If yes, then something must have happened at home that caused him to snap and decide "That's it I'm leaving."
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 27, 2017, 10:50:53 PM
Levi Cook (DePaul), Jared Ridder (X), Cooper Neese (Butler). All three were Jameel McKay type midseason transfers. Might qualify for waivers but might not.
What waiver would they qualify for? I love scoopers who claim to know things they know nothing about.
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 28, 2017, 10:22:29 AM
After getting some inside scoop on this situation, family matter is as good as an excuse as any. Cheatham wants to play at the next level, wants to be the man, he
was never going to be the man at MU. He wants to be the man. Simple as that. Did not like the role he was playing at MU. Good luck in the future, hope it works out
for him. Wojo probably told him the truth about his abilities, sometimes players do not want to hear it. Oh well.
It seems to be bizarre but I have heard the same thing from people (person) close to the players. I wasn't willing to offer this up because, like everything else here, it is speculation. But after another voice saying this, I wanted to raise my hand as hearing the same thing. He wanted the the QG treatment of being a superstar. He is looking for some extra attention.
Again it is speculation and don't want to smear his name. I will miss having an athletic body out there. I will not miss watching air ball floaters from 6 feet.
Quote from: Herman Cain on November 28, 2017, 07:20:53 AM
Haanif is a good kid. He worked hard in school and represented MU well. He was doing well this season, starting and playing good minutes. Part of the reason I felt our team was going to do well was Haanifs return to form.
There is some precedent for transfer waivers to family reason. Michigan State Bryn Forbes was a notable recent case.
http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2014/08/bryn_forbes_granted_ncaa_waive.html
Hopefully , Haanif finds a new home and does well going forward. I will be rooting for him.
2014. The rules have changed. In addition, mid-year enrollees in basketball are ineligible.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 28, 2017, 10:51:08 AM
What waiver would they qualify for? I love scoopers who claim to know things they know nothing about.
The Sandy Cohen Waiver.
I mean, I can't figure out why he got one to qualify for an entire extra year of eligibility, but neither Traci Carter or John Dawson did.
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 28, 2017, 10:46:31 AM
Traci Carter did not like is role either, Sandy Cohen did not like his role either, it happens. Your right, it makes no sense. If you want to be the man, show it on the court, I did not see it at all.
Those guys had a lot more eligibility left. As a junior, Cheatham is giving up 75% of his remaining eligibility.
Quote from: DCHoopster on November 28, 2017, 10:22:29 AM
After getting some inside scoop on this situation, family matter is as good as an excuse as any. Cheatham wants to play at the next level, wants to be the man, he
was never going to be the man at MU. He wants to be the man. Simple as that. Did not like the role he was playing at MU. Good luck in the future, hope it works out
for him. Wojo probably told him the truth about his abilities, sometimes players do not want to hear it. Oh well.
I've heard similar rumblings as well.
A lot of scoopers can't believe one would do such a thing, but they get a ton of horrible advice, and let's face it a lot of them think they're better then what they really are.
Intelligence plays a role as well. But who am I to judge. I was 18-22 at one point as well, and made bad decisions.
Ever since Odartey Blanskon transferred a month after being named a captain, I stopped worrying about transfers. They're going to happen for a million different reasons. I don't let it bother me.
Now Wojo has to go out and find a high impact guard. Use this opportunity to hopefully upgrade our roster.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 28, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
Ever since Odartey Blanskon transferred a month after being named a captain, I stopped worrying about transfers. They're going to happen for a million different reasons. I don't let it bother me.
Now Wojo has to go out and find a high impact guard. Use this opportunity to hopefully upgrade our roster.
I get that transfers happen, but for MU it has meant that our team has been "young" since wojo came in. That's not normal.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on November 28, 2017, 10:51:08 AM
What waiver would they qualify for? I love scoopers who claim to know things they know nothing about.
The same one Sandy Cohen did. He had a year of eligibility restored after midseason transferring last season. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2017/10/06/uw-green-bays-sandy-cohen-iii-granted-ncaa-waiver-play-season/739689001/
I love scoopers who claim to know things they know nothing about.
EDIT: I see Sultan beat me to it.
I would think many of us have found a rough patch in life and when wanting to quit we sought out reasons to justify quitting (family, lack of time, etc).
Wojo seems to be taking the high road, which is great.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 28, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
I get that transfers happen, but for MU it has meant that our team has been "young" since wojo came in. That's not normal.
Go to the Badger boards where they are complaining about their unproductive juniors, wishing they transferred, and even wishing Gard "nudged" them out the door.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 28, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
I get that transfers happen, but for MU it has meant that our team has been "young" since wojo came in. That's not normal.
That's the only thing that I don't like about the way the chips fall with so much transferring. I do believe that we are upgrading our talent, and the impact that has on playing time for some guys is the real driving force behind their choice to transfer. Overall, that's a good thing. But, it does leave us consistently with a young team. A team with more potential perhaps, but a young one. I'm hoping we will finally have a year when we have the talent we want along with the experience that really helps that talent to shine.
As an aside, I can't help but see mid-season transfers as involving a degree of quitting on the team. There's just something different between that and transferring at the end of the year. Still, I'm not going to begrudge players looking for different or better opportunities, and so I'll not get worked up about it.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 28, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
I get that transfers happen, but for MU it has meant that our team has been "young" since wojo came in. That's not normal.
We were actually quite old last season.
1 5th year player
4 4th year players
1 3rd year player (who transferred midseason)
4 2nd year players) (1 of whom transferred midseason and 1 of whom redshirtted)
2 1st year players
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 28, 2017, 01:53:12 PM
We were actually quite old last season.
1 5th year player
4 4th year players
1 3rd year player (who transferred midseason)
4 2nd year players) (1 of whom transferred midseason and 1 of whom redshirtted)
2 1st year players
By age/class perhaps, but in terms of actual games played, MU was one of the least experienced teams in the nation last year.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 28, 2017, 01:38:36 PM
Go to the Badger boards where they are complaining about their unproductive juniors, wishing they transferred, and even wishing Gard "nudged" them out the door.
After hearing it mentioned in their game vs. Virginia last night that there are 13 redshirt players between WI & VA, I checked the Badgers website and saw they have 7 players that are redshirting or already have. We could be older like them but is that what we really want?
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 28, 2017, 01:05:51 PM
Ever since Odartey Blanskon transferred a month after being named a captain, I stopped worrying about transfers. They're going to happen for a million different reasons. I don't let it bother me.
Now Wojo has to go out and find a high impact guard. Use this opportunity to hopefully upgrade our roster.
Like D Wil?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on November 28, 2017, 01:08:34 PM
I get that transfers happen, but for MU it has meant that our team has been "young" since wojo came in. That's not normal.
Well there's going to be 5 JR's on the team next year.
Quote from: Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist on November 27, 2017, 09:58:14 PM
I think Haanif despite being a great kid and member of this team is listening to someone talking nonsense.... he hasn't liked his role for a while and things he can make it to the next level. As we all know, the grass isn't always greener. Too bad
What are you and Bo doing for fun these days now that the free (recruiting) trip gravy train is over?
Quote from: 1SE on November 28, 2017, 03:14:04 PM
Teal?
No. Duane is a good role player but not really "high impact." He has increased his EFG nicely. This year his is playing PG, which has increased his assists, but also his TOs.
He's not really high impact. He's right now a slightly better shooting version of sophomore Duane.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 28, 2017, 03:21:02 PM
No. Duane is a good role player but not really "high impact." He has increased his EFG nicely. This year his is playing PG, which has increased his assists, but also his TOs.
He's not really high impact. He's right now a slightly better shooting version of sophomore Duane.
And you wouldn't want that as our 6th man this season? The guy is doing 12 and 4 for a top-10 team - yes his decision making was always suspect, but it sure would be nice to have him splitting the 80 minutes with the midgets.
Quote from: 1SE on November 28, 2017, 03:30:40 PM
And you wouldn't want that as our 6th man this season? The guy is doing 12 and 4 for a top-10 team - yes his decision making was always suspect, but it sure would be nice to have him splitting the 80 minutes with the midgets.
Yes I would. And that's pretty much the exact role he would have played this year. But Duane didn't want that.
And don't shift the goalposts. He is not "high impact."
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 27, 2017, 01:07:47 PM
The only game where Sacar outplayed him, and where Elliott POSSIBLY outplayed him, was LSU.
Other than that, Haanif was better in two out of three games - significantly better v. VCU.
100% accurate.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 28, 2017, 03:34:49 PM
Yes I would. And that's pretty much the exact role he would have played this year. But Duane didn't want that.
And don't shift the goalposts. He is not "high impact."
Depends what you mean by high impact. If his presence nets us +2 wins, and that's the difference in making the tourney, I'd call that high impact.
Doesn't seem like he's getting much more than that this year (doesn't really matter if he starts or comes off the bench, 20-25 min looks like what he'll get). Even before Haani's departure he would have been nice to hang on to.
Quote from: Benny B on November 28, 2017, 09:35:29 AM
Not necessarily directed at Stretch, but curiosity about "personal matters" used to be about empathy and/or a desire to help. I'm not talking about 50 years ago... I'm talking less than a couple decades ago. These days, it seems less about genuine concern and more about people feeling entitled to know what's going on in everyone's lives.
I'm sure with just about everyone's life story being out there on social media, "reality TV," etc., it's not helping the situation. Schadenfreude has been taken to a new level if you ask me... instead of simply reveling in another's misery, it's almost as though people can't feel good about themselves unless they see something bad happening to someone else.
Again, not directed at Stretch... back in the day before internet, innocuous comments didn't usually trigger a rant.
Well said.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 28, 2017, 01:38:36 PM
Go to the Badger boards where they are complaining about their unproductive juniors, wishing they transferred, and even wishing Gard "nudged" them out the door.
I think Gard is panicking. He remove the redshirt from their big guy. In the end abandoning the UW way of redshirting bigmen will bite Gard in the butt. Playing Reuvers now will not save UW's season.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 28, 2017, 01:30:17 PM
The same one Sandy Cohen did. He had a year of eligibility restored after midseason transferring last season. http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/college/uwgb/2017/10/06/uw-green-bays-sandy-cohen-iii-granted-ncaa-waiver-play-season/739689001/
I love scoopers who claim to know things they know nothing about.
EDIT: I see Sultan beat me to it.
Its nothing like a guarantee, though, is it? Asking because I honestly don't know. Dawson didn't get one with an even better case than Cohen. Cohen was an end of the bench guy and Cheatham is a starter getting starter minutes. Why would he qualify for a waiver? If he gets a waiver and 1.5 years eligibility at his new school, at least the decision to leave MU makes sense. If he doesn't get a waiver I do not see how it does anything but hurt Cheatham.
One of the things this board seems to forget is that transfers work both ways. Since Wojo has come here, we've had several well-known transfers out. Consider, however, that we've also had the following:
Matt Carlino -- Year 1
Katlin Reinhardt -- Year 3
Harry Froeling -- This Year
Ed Morrow -- Next Year
Keep in mind that all of these people have been starters for us. Carlino and Reinhardt were the inbound equivalent of Duane Wilson's outbound.
The morale: these things happen. I question whether college basketball players are any different than general students, who also transfer for loads of reasons that don't always make sense either.
Again, wish Haani well and let's move on.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 29, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
One of the things this board seems to forget is that transfers work both ways. Since Wojo has come here, we've had several well-known transfers out. Consider, however, that we've also had the following:
Matt Carlino -- Year 1
Katlin Reinhardt -- Year 3
Harry Froeling -- This Year
Ed Morrow -- Next Year
Keep in mind that all of these people have been starters for us. Carlino and Reinhardt were the inbound equivalent of Duane Wilson's outbound.
The morale: these things happen. I question whether college basketball players are any different than general students, who also transfer for loads of reasons that don't always make sense either.
Again, wish Haani well and let's move on.
+1
Here's the other thing. Those 'inbound' transfers are committed for the long haul. Wojo could get fired tomorrow and MU name Tower coach and Froeling and Morrow would be locked in. Same applied to Luke for his 3 seasons. Seems like most kids take advantage of that one 'off' year. But very few get a second bite at the apple.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 29, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
One of the things this board seems to forget is that transfers work both ways. Since Wojo has come here, we've had several well-known transfers out. Consider, however, that we've also had the following:
Matt Carlino -- Year 1
Katlin Reinhardt -- Year 3
Harry Froeling -- This Year
Ed Morrow -- Next Year
Keep in mind that all of these people have been starters for us. Carlino and Reinhardt were the inbound equivalent of Duane Wilson's outbound.
The morale: these things happen. I question whether college basketball players are any different than general students, who also transfer for loads of reasons that don't always make sense either.
Again, wish Haani well and let's move on.
I think 'this board' gets it...but you can't have transfers work both ways and have a perceived issue of being perpetually young. IMO roster construction is getting better but still an issue for Wojo. Solving that + finding a workable defense is the difference between him being successful or not over the next 2 years.
Quote from: CTWarrior on November 29, 2017, 08:23:50 AM
Its nothing like a guarantee, though, is it? Asking because I honestly don't know. Dawson didn't get one with an even better case than Cohen. Cohen was an end of the bench guy and Cheatham is a starter getting starter minutes. Why would he qualify for a waiver? If he gets a waiver and 1.5 years eligibility at his new school, at least the decision to leave MU makes sense. If he doesn't get a waiver I do not see how it does anything but hurt Cheatham.
Honestly wasn't talking about Cheatham. I was talking about the three other Big East players who transferred before the first game. I have no idea what the criteria is for this waiver. It seems very random from the outside looking in.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 29, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
One of the things this board seems to forget is that transfers work both ways. Since Wojo has come here, we've had several well-known transfers out. Consider, however, that we've also had the following:
Matt Carlino -- Year 1
Katlin Reinhardt -- Year 3
Harry Froeling -- This Year
Ed Morrow -- Next Year
Keep in mind that all of these people have been starters for us. Carlino and Reinhardt were the inbound equivalent of Duane Wilson's outbound.
The morale: these things happen. I question whether college basketball players are any different than general students, who also transfer for loads of reasons that don't always make sense either.
Again, wish Haani well and let's move on.
Rowsey, too.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2017, 08:51:22 AM
I think 'this board' gets it...but you can't have transfers work both ways and have a perceived issue of being perpetually young. IMO roster construction is getting better but still an issue for Wojo. Solving that + finding a workable defense is the difference between him being successful or not over the next 2 years.
Is being "perpetually young" a perception issue? Or is it an actually issue?
To me the main issue is that we should want to have a core group of four year players with transfers out if they can't handle it, and transfers in to cover weaknesses. We haven't got there yet. Maybe we are saying the same thing though.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 29, 2017, 09:17:10 AM
Is being "perpetually young" a perception issue? Or is it an actually issue?
I don't know as I haven't seen the data - it may be and seems logical -- many here say it is an actual issue. I am tempted to get a KenPom subscription to see what the numbers say.
There are many strategies to have a workable roster. I actually don't care which one is being used by a coach if it works. I personally question if the '4 year core' is achievable in today's game, but I would have no problem with it.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 29, 2017, 08:39:38 AM
One of the things this board seems to forget is that transfers work both ways. Since Wojo has come here, we've had several well-known transfers out. Consider, however, that we've also had the following:
Matt Carlino -- Year 1
Katlin Reinhardt -- Year 3
Harry Froeling -- This Year
Ed Morrow -- Next Year
Keep in mind that all of these people have been starters for us. Carlino and Reinhardt were the inbound equivalent of Duane Wilson's outbound.
The morale: these things happen. I question whether college basketball players are any different than general students, who also transfer for loads of reasons that don't always make sense either.
Again, wish Haani well and let's move on.
You're right that we've gotten some good transfers, but the bigger concern for me about guys leaving is that we've had too many leave during the season. Cheatham, Carter, Dawson, and Burton have all left mid-season on Wojo. That, to me, is a much bigger deal and more of an issue than a guy who decides to leave in between basketball seasons. I can't be alone in thinking this, can I?
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 10:36:41 AM
You're right that we've gotten some good transfers, but the bigger concern for me about guys leaving is that we've had too many leave during the season. Cheatham, Carter, Dawson, and Burton have all left mid-season on Wojo. That, to me, is a much bigger deal and more of an issue than a guy who decides to leave in between basketball seasons. I can't be alone in thinking this, can I?
Why is it a "much bigger issue" to you?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 29, 2017, 08:51:22 AM
I think 'this board' gets it...but you can't have transfers work both ways and have a perceived issue of being perpetually young. IMO roster construction is getting better but still an issue for Wojo. Solving that + finding a workable defense is the difference between him being successful or not over the next 2 years.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 29, 2017, 09:17:10 AM
Is being "perpetually young" a perception issue? Or is it an actually issue?
To me the main issue is that we should want to have a core group of four year players with transfers out if they can't handle it, and transfers in to cover weaknesses. We haven't got there yet. Maybe we are saying the same thing though.
I think the challenge is the unpredictability of it. While I tended to feel that being perpetually young is an issue, this conversation is pointing out that it's the gaps left by players transferring out that may have the biggest impact. Transfers in don't immediately solve that gap, unless they are graduate transfers with immediately eligibility. Mid-season transfers inevitably create gaps.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 10:36:41 AM
You're right that we've gotten some good transfers, but the bigger concern for me about guys leaving is that we've had too many leave during the season. Cheatham, Carter, Dawson, and Burton have all left mid-season on Wojo. That, to me, is a much bigger deal and more of an issue than a guy who decides to leave in between basketball seasons. I can't be alone in thinking this, can I?
I'd rather have them leave early so it still allows for more time to recruit a late signee (like Ellllllliottttttttt)
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2017, 10:39:05 AM
Why is it a "much bigger issue" to you?
It seems to me that if a guy leaves mid-season, he's so upset about the way things are going that he can't even finish the year. He'd rather walk out and give up the rest of the year than deal with the situation any longer. Transferring between seasons seems like more of a planned transition, while the mid-year transfers seem like they're more knee-jerk. One of those can be attributed to a loose cannon type of player, but a consistent string gives me concerns about what's going on inside the program. I don't know the numbers, but I'd think that the number of mid-year transfers is much smaller than the number of off-season transfers.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 29, 2017, 10:50:35 AM
I'd rather have them leave early so it still allows for more time to recruit a late signee (like Ellllllliottttttttt)
I'd rather have them announce that they're leaving in April so we have as much time as possible to recruit the best available talent. Leaving in the middle (or at the beginning) of the season leaves us with a hole in the roster that can't be filled. I would never take that option.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 10:36:41 AM
You're right that we've gotten some good transfers, but the bigger concern for me about guys leaving is that we've had too many leave during the season. Cheatham, Carter, Dawson, and Burton have all left mid-season on Wojo. That, to me, is a much bigger deal and more of an issue than a guy who decides to leave in between basketball seasons. I can't be alone in thinking this, can I?
I think Wojo uses the non-con to figure out who he'll want to be in the 8-9 man rotation come second semester. Once that's figured out, it seems like he's honest with guys about where they fit into that plan. Some then cut and run if they don't like what they hear. C'est la vie. I think it's best for the long-term health of the program and the player that everyone knows where he stands at all times.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2017, 10:39:05 AM
Why is it a "much bigger issue" to you?
Because it leaves the team short handed with no ability to add players. It shows the perhaps Wojo has a tough time keeping everyone pleased. It shows that perhaps Wojo has a tough time convincing guys that staying through the season is better for all parties, including the player.
Not being negative - but having 5 guys transfer midseason in 4 years is alot, no matter which way you slice it. Haani transferring after the year would have been much better for the program, and for Hanni.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on November 29, 2017, 11:00:15 AM
I think Wojo uses the non-con to figure out who he'll want to be in the 8-9 man rotation come second semester. Once that's figured out, it seems like he's honest with guys about where they fit into that plan. Some then cut and run if they don't like what they hear. C'est la vie. I think it's best for the long-term health of the program and the player that everyone knows where he stands at all times.
Agree with your assessment. We have a team of role players and it's not uncommon for role players to overvalue themselves. When that happens (see Haanif) unhappiness ensues.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 29, 2017, 11:07:33 AM
Because it leaves the team short handed with no ability to add players. It shows the perhaps Wojo has a tough time keeping everyone pleased. It shows that perhaps Wojo has a tough time convincing guys that staying through the season is better for all parties, including the player.
The first point is a fair one, though outside of Haanif and Deonte, I'm not sure the other midseason transfers (Dawson and Carter) really had much negative impact. Dawson was playing 4 mpg when he left and Traci was losing PT to Markus and Rowsey.
The others points don't worry me. Every coach has a tough time keeping everyone pleased. That's why there were nearly 900 transfers last year.
QuoteHaani transferring after the year would have been much better for the program, and for Hanni.
A little presumptuous to say it would have been better for Cheatham, given the stated reasons for his departure.
Once a kid makes up his mind that he wants/"needs" to be elsewhere, I would rather have him leave than be a poor teammate with one foot out the door and his head somewhere else.
Haani would've helped us the second half of the season, and I am sorry he has left the program. I'm especially sorry because now I'm going to have to listen to many of you kvetch for the rest of the season about Wojo's inability to keep players along with his inability to coach defense, yada yada yada. And if you get your wish and Wojo is gone (which is, I believe, nowhere close to happening), you will simply bitch and complain about the next coach when Markus and Sam decide to transfer and Joey and Brendan decommit. Think about what you are wishing for, people!
"Think about what you are wishing for, people!"
Amen to that.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2017, 11:28:58 AM
The first point is a fair one, though outside of Haanif and Deonte, I'm not sure the other midseason transfers (Dawson and Carter) really had much negative impact. Dawson was playing 4 mpg when he left and Traci was losing PT to Markus and Rowsey.
The others points don't worry me. Every coach has a tough time keeping everyone pleased. That's why there were nearly 900 transfers last year.
A little presumptuous to say it would have been better for Cheatham, given the stated reasons for his departure.
Dawson and Carters both burned 25% of their college eligibility. Not sure how you can spin that anyway that was a positive for their basketball careers.
Regarding your last sentence, I am referring to strictly basketball reasons. The "personal reasons" seem a little wishywashy...nothing about such on Haani's social media posts or comments, and Wojo's post game presser comments seemed like he was almost mocking the "personal reasons".
Whatever...is what it is.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on November 29, 2017, 11:43:43 AM
Once a kid makes up his mind that he wants/"needs" to be elsewhere, I would rather have him leave than be a poor teammate with one foot out the door and his head somewhere else.
This. Nicely said. I don't want unhappy players on the team or in the locker room.
Now, maybe Wojo could do more as a coach so that players don't become unhappy. I don't know about that, and neither does anybody else here. But if a guy can't suck it up and be a team guy for the second half of the season - as Duane was last year - see ya! (Not saying this specifically about Haani, who might have had family-related reasons for leaving; we don't know the truth yet.)
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 29, 2017, 11:57:44 AM
Dawson and Carters both burned 25% of their college eligibility. Not sure how you can spin that anyway that was a positive for their basketball careers.
I didn't spin that as a positive for their basketball careers. I said nothing about their basketball careers. I said their leaving at midseason didn't have much negative impact for Marquette.
I think you're trying super hard to read things into Wojo's comments that aren't there. Scratch that ... not his comments, but the manner in which you think those comments were delivered.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on November 29, 2017, 11:43:43 AM
Haani would've helped us the second half of the season, and I am sorry he has left the program. I'm especially sorry because now I'm going to have to listen to many of you kvetch for the rest of the season about Wojo's inability to keep players along with his inability to coach defense, yada yada yada. And if you get your wish and Wojo is gone (which is, I believe, nowhere close to happening), you will simply bitch and complain about the next coach when Markus and Sam decide to transfer and Joey and Brendan decommit. Think about what you are wishing for, people!
Wishing for a coach that understands defense and can effectively stop an opponent when he needs to is reasonable. Wishing to have a coach that players are committed to is also something I find to be reasonable. Defending Wojo's glaring inadequacies as a head coach, on the other hand, I find perplexing.
The view that he's a good long-term prospect as a coach and will bring the program back to a highly competitive place in the near future, despite his current struggles is perfectly fine. But there's no need to ignore the reality that he is still dealing with some very real growing pains as a head coach.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 29, 2017, 12:04:52 PM
I said their leaving at midseason didn't have much negative impact for Marquette.
ahh. I misread your comment as "no negative impact" as a player based comment, not on MU.
Leaving mid-season hurts the player more than the team/program. They lose 2 semesters of eligibility or must sit out for 3 semesters to only lose one semester. The program/team can recruit a player, perhaps a better player, and have them ready to play next season. Not many players get a waiver.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on November 29, 2017, 01:55:43 PM
Leaving mid-season hurts the player more than the team/program. They lose 2 semesters of eligibility or must sit out for 3 semesters to only lose one semester. The program/team can recruit a player, perhaps a better player, and have them ready to play next season. Not many players get a waiver.
I don't know that I agree with this. We just lost at least 10% of our on-court minutes for the season when Cheatham left. That's a hole that we can't fill completely until next year. Losing a starter or key contributor mid-season is painful, especially when we knew we were in all likelihood striving to be a bubble team this year.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
I don't know that I agree with this. We just lost at least 10% of our on-court minutes for the season when Cheatham left. That's a hole that we can't fill completely until next year. Losing a starter or key contributor mid-season is painful, especially when we knew we were in all likelihood striving to be a bubble team this year.
The statement was it hurts the player more than the team. Not that it doesn't hurt the team. Guy loses 25% of his eligibility by transferring mid season. We can replace some of his production he can't replace that eligibility. By that simple logic it hurts the player more than the team
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2017, 01:59:48 PM
I don't know that I agree with this. We just lost at least 10% of our on-court minutes for the season when Cheatham left. That's a hole that we can't fill completely until next year. Losing a starter or key contributor mid-season is painful, especially when we knew we were in all likelihood striving to be a bubble team this year.
It's an "if," I know, but what if the person who ends up getting most of those minutes - say, Elliott - ends up being a better player than Haani ... largely because he gets to play 28 minutes instead of the 13 he was averaging before Haani left?
Having a long bench always better than a short one - gives options and margin. Lots goes on for these kids. And I get the appeal of Wojo being a "straight talker" but you also have to be straight and honest with kids that they could be 9 or 10 in the rotation and they have to be ok with that.
Maybe the problem is trying to recruit 4/5 stars "all the way down". Bring in a few 3 stars - kids with a bit of a chip on their shoulder that know they'll have to work - but also realize (and are happy) to be the 9th or 10th man on a high major team - knowing that they could be called on at any moment and have to step up. Heldt, I think, would have been this type of player had Wojo not failed to recruit a feature big for this year. Sam also could have been this type of player if it hadn't turned out he's actually a stud. and I think Sacar was willing to be close to this (at least in a 7/8 type role) had Haani stayed. If having 10 4/5 stars means two are always dissatisfied and potentially going to bail mid-season, try and recruit a few more diamonds in the rough.
15-star, 7 4-stars, 2 3-stars - the MU recipe for success!
Quote from: Pakuni on November 28, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
By age/class perhaps, but in terms of actual games played, MU was one of the least experienced teams in the nation last year.
We were actually quite old last season.
1 5th year player
4 4th year players
1 3rd year player (who transferred midseason)
4 2nd year players) (1 of whom transferred midseason and 1 of whom redshirtted)
2 1st year players
So you are hoping for what exactly? That we have guys that play significant minutes year 1-4 and stay all 4 years? If that is what you expect then that is quite the dream....Doesn't happen anymore. You get youth in age/or 4 year players that don't play significant minutes until they are possibly juniors.....
Quote from: RKMU123 on November 29, 2017, 09:15:05 AM
Rowsey, too.
How could you have forgotten about #thething
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on November 29, 2017, 09:17:10 AM
Is being "perpetually young" a perception issue? Or is it an actually issue?
Perception Issue...I am not a statistician (so definitely could be proven wrong) -- but just running a scatter-plot and looking at correlations between KenPom experience vs. overall, O & D ranks it looks pretty definitive that experience isn't a significant driver (looked at 15-17 info).
Quote from: MU82 on November 29, 2017, 12:03:07 PM
This. Nicely said. I don't want unhappy players on the team or in the locker room.
Now, maybe Wojo could do more as a coach so that players don't become unhappy. I don't know about that, and neither does anybody else here. But if a guy can't suck it up and be a team guy for the second half of the season - as Duane was last year - see ya! (Not saying this specifically about Haani, who might have had family-related reasons for leaving; we don't know the truth yet.)
Agree with every word here
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on November 29, 2017, 02:29:13 PM
How could you have forgotten about #thething
He was drinking a Fresca rather than a Coke.
Deonte was a very special case. Death of his mother really affected him.
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/11/09/deonte-burton-reveals-battle-depression
Quote from: Newsdreams on November 30, 2017, 08:21:04 AM
Deonte was a very special case. Death of his mother really affected him.
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2017/11/09/deonte-burton-reveals-battle-depression
BS. We were told by those in the know that Burton's departure was all on the coaching staff.
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
I do not think our problem is recruiting too many 4/5 star players. 4/5 star players are typically muti-dimensional and can play defense, are athletic and can shoot. Hauser is the closest we have to that level. We do have two elite shooters but they suffer in some other aspects of the game.
If players leave because they do not like their role I am ok with that provided it is not mid year when we have no hope of backfilling. We have also been relying on transfers etc. to fill holes in our HS recuiting. Since transfers often have to sit out 1 or 2 semesters it impacts our depth. Players will leave to meet their own objectives. We need to accept that, wish them success and move on.
Quote from: lohaus on November 30, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
Next year is gonna be off the chain. I love Rowsey, but we get a year of experience for everyone else on the roster then replace him with a 6'8" highly skilled 3/4, a 6'8" jacked banger, and 6'8" shooter. Plus add a whole season of 6'10" Froling.
If we're relatively healthy come tournament time next year, that team's a buzzsaw.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on November 30, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
Next year is gonna be off the chain. I love Rowsey, but we get a year of experience for everyone else on the roster then replace him with a 6'8" highly skilled 3/4, a 6'8" jacked banger, and 6'8" shooter. Plus add a whole season of 6'10" Froling.
If we're relatively healthy come tournament time next year, that team's a buzzsaw.
We need a reliable PG too
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on November 30, 2017, 05:13:52 PM
Next year is gonna be off the chain. I love Rowsey, but we get a year of experience for everyone else on the roster then replace him with a 6'8" highly skilled 3/4, a 6'8" jacked banger, and 6'8" shooter. Plus add a whole season of 6'10" Froling.
If we're relatively healthy come tournament time next year, that team's a buzzsaw.
Agreed. And the Final Four is in Minneapolis. If things fall just right....
Quote from: lohaus on November 30, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
Well said!
Quote from: lohaus on November 30, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
who said he did not want to be into proram. It's. Personal family matter. Get real here.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 30, 2017, 05:29:31 PM
We need a reliable PG too
Greg Elliott may be that elusive PG. Does he remind anyone else of Michael Carter-Williams (with a better shot)?
Quote from: 94Warrior on November 30, 2017, 07:58:33 PM
Greg Elliott may be that elusive PG. Does he remind anyone else of Michael Carter-Williams (with a better shot)?
Hands up. Totally does for me.
Not that it means much, but GE ran the point in garbage time yesterday. I really like the kid.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 30, 2017, 10:28:42 AM
BS. We were told by those in the know that Burton's departure was all on the coaching staff.
On coaching staff? The guy wanted to play guard. He went to Iowa St. And played the same exact position. Chucker who didn't play defense.
MCW's stats in his 2 yrs at Syracuse:
Season G GS MIN FG FGA FG% 3P% FT% REB AST STL BLK TO PTS
2011-12 26 0 10.3 1.0 2.2 .431 .389 .565 1.5 2.1 0.8 0.3 0.6 2.7
2012-13 40 40 35.2 3.9 9.9 .393 .294 .694 5.0 7.3 2.7 0.5 3.5 11.9
Career 66 40 25.4 2.7 6.8 .398 .307 .679 3.6 5.2 2.0 0.4 2.3 8.2
Elliott's stats in 6 games at MU:
SEASON TEAM MIN FGM FGA FG% 3P% FT% REB AST STL BLK TO PTS
2017-18 MARQ 16.9 1.3 2.7 .474 .167 .429 2.7 1.6 1.3 1.3 0.7 3.1
Quote from: lohaus on November 30, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
Amen brother....
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 30, 2017, 06:28:47 PM
who said he did not want to be into proram. It's. Personal family matter. Get real here.
I did.
According to KenPom.com, Elliott ranks in the top 100 in the country for both steal percentage and block percentage. He's leading the team in both categories despite being 7th in minutes played.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on November 30, 2017, 08:39:07 PM
On coaching staff? The guy wanted to play guard. He went to Iowa St. And played the same exact position. Chucker who didn't play defense.
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic :)
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 01, 2017, 03:09:56 AM
According to KenPom.com, Elliott ranks in the top 100 in the country for both steal percentage and block percentage. He's leading the team in both categories despite being 7th in minutes played.
Minutes no matter to steal % and block %. But yeah, that's impressive numbers for a frosh
A couple of things from Marquette's standpoint that have a lot of this board fretting.
1) Haani was a high three-star or four-star recruit. Like Jeronne Maymon of yesteryear, we spent much time and energy recruiting him. Plus, he was from South Florida and represented a new and potentially lucrative recruiting ground for Marquette. He was a high-profile guy who, with Henry Ellenson, gave us a very strong class that was nationally noticed. When this kind of a recruit leaves, for whatever reason, we wonder.
2) Haani, as many pointed out, didn't perform consistent with his hype. He was a good ballplayer yes -- good enough to start for us this year. But for a person as well-hyped as Haani, he theoretically should have been one of the best guards in the conference, if not the country. He wasn't, so it causes us to wonder whether it was Marquette or the player that stumbled.
3) We have to assign blame. That's who we are as Scoopers, unfortunately. We can't and usually won't accept Haani's explanation at face value. There most likely is something personal going on but.....
Next man up and, again, we wish him well.
I don't doubt Haanif will end up closer to home, and that is likely his goal. But...
I also have no doubts (though will admit that it's only speculation) that "personal reasons" is a scripted line that Wojo, Haanif and the rest of the staff agreed to use to increase his chances to get more playing time elsewhere. It doesn't even matter if it's true (there's probably some truth to it), but as long as it's a semi-amicable departure ,the staff will do everything they can to get Haanif more playing time elsewhere.
This goes for about every other time any coaching staff utters the term "personal reasons"
No conspiracy, just part of the game of NCAA hoops. 'nuff said.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 01, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
I don't doubt Haanif will end up closer to home, and that is likely his goal. But...
I also have no doubts (though will admit that it's only speculation) that "personal reasons" is a scripted line that Wojo, Haanif and the rest of the staff agreed to use to increase his chances to get more playing time elsewhere. It doesn't even matter if it's true (there's probably some truth to it), but as long as it's a semi-amicable departure ,the staff will do everything they can to get Haanif more playing time elsewhere.
This goes for about every other time any coaching staff utters the term "personal reasons"
No conspiracy, just part of the game of NCAA hoops. 'nuff said.
+1
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 01, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
I don't doubt Haanif will end up closer to home, and that is likely his goal. But...
I also have no doubts (though will admit that it's only speculation) that "personal reasons" is a scripted line that Wojo, Haanif and the rest of the staff agreed to use to increase his chances to get more playing time elsewhere. It doesn't even matter if it's true (there's probably some truth to it), but as long as it's a semi-amicable departure ,the staff will do everything they can to get Haanif more playing time elsewhere.
This goes for about every other time any coaching staff utters the term "personal reasons"
No conspiracy, just part of the game of NCAA hoops. 'nuff said.
Yep.
I tend to think we look at these things as an "either/or" when they are likely a mix of both. Does he have some personal problems to deal with? I'm sure. No reason to lie about that. However if he was a 20/8/6 guy who was leading the team in minutes, would he still be leaving? Not so sure.
Quote from: lohaus on November 30, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
Again, with Haanif being gone it allows someone like G. Elliott to get those minutes and grow. Taller, more athletic, and actually dunks. Criticism of his shot? Haanif couldn't shoot either. It seems like from the simple stats that GE brings blocks, rebounds, shots, assists, and steals.
Anyway, if Hannif didn't want to be in the program, then good luck to him and be gone. Long term, I really wouldn't want the program to invest resources and time in a guy that isn't going to be here or doesn't want to be here. I think this allows players like Sacaar and GE to play, blossom, develop, and step up.
As far as Wojo, I'm entirely optimistic about the future with players like Joey Hauser coming in. A 6'8" stud that is a coach's son, winner, high IQ, and has the inside out game. A transfer like Morrow that is a post presence and will contribute immediately. The addition of HF at semester that is a 6'10' guy and will contribute immediately. Bailey coming in that is again a 6'8" shooter with pedigree. Plus throw in Heldt for another serviceable year along with TJ entering his second year. We will be far from the 6'5"-6'7" switchable we were in the past.
In the end I am not going to fret over a guy like Haanif that really seemed like he plateaued and whose game is limited. Again, if he was going to be the Man, then he would have been the Man. We squeaked into the tourney last year. I'm hoping we do the same this year. Next year I think we will be improved at every position with the additions.
Ultimately, I agree with most of the posts here. Wojo seems to be clear with player's roles. If they don't agree, embrace that role and want to transfer. . .then that is on them. Good luck at a lower level program!
Haanif is taller than Greg.
Morrow, Joey, and Brendon coming on board next year will lead to someone to MU having a better team next year and will also probaly lead to one or two more departures at semester break. It's the way of an improving program.
Greg can play above the rim—HC cannot.
I just went on the gomarquette site to look at season statistics. I wanted to know what Howards 3 point percentage was after the last game. What I found interesting was that Hanif was not listed in the statistics at all. Seems pretty vindictive to me.
Quote from: bilsu on December 01, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
I just went on the gomarquette site to look at season statistics. I wanted to know what Howards 3 point percentage was after the last game. What I found interesting was that Hanif was not listed in the statistics at all. Seems pretty vindictive to me.
Why? He isn't part of the team. SOP.
Quote from: bilsu on December 01, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
I just went on the gomarquette site to look at season statistics. I wanted to know what Howards 3 point percentage was after the last game. What I found interesting was that Hanif was not listed in the statistics at all. Seems pretty vindictive to me.
More amazing is he was removed from the Pray and Intro videos on the BC JumboTron just hours after the release last Monday night. Either you're with us or against us! Go MU!
What was Markus's 3P% ?
He gowne.
Quote from: bilsu on December 01, 2017, 05:39:41 PM
I just went on the gomarquette site to look at season statistics. I wanted to know what Howards 3 point percentage was after the last game. What I found interesting was that Hanif was not listed in the statistics at all. Seems pretty vindictive to me.
Lol......this has always been done.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 01, 2017, 10:42:10 AM
I also have no doubts (though will admit that it's only speculation) that "personal reasons" is a scripted line that Wojo, Haanif and the rest of the staff agreed to use to increase his chances to get more playing time elsewhere.
Ding ding ding
Quote from: 94Warrior on December 01, 2017, 05:48:49 PM
More amazing is he was removed from the Pray and Intro videos on the BC JumboTron just hours after the release last Monday night. Either you're with us or against us! Go MU!
What was Markus's 3P% ?
26/64-40.6% the LSU game stung a little as he went 3/9. otherwise, 9/20, 9/18, 5/11 and 11/16
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 01, 2017, 08:17:09 AMMinutes no matter to steal % and block %. But yeah, that's impressive numbers for a frosh
Sorry if I wasn't clear. In addition to leading the team in steal and block percentage, Greg also leads in actual steals (9) and blocks (9).
Hanif may be taller but he plays shorter than Greg on offense and defense. I wish he would have stayed for depth, bit, it was becoming clear that he was moving deeper down the bench.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 02, 2017, 05:23:45 AM
Hanif may be taller but he plays shorter than Greg on offense and defense. I wish he would have stayed for depth, bit, it was becoming clear that he was moving deeper down the bench.
Ehh...not really. Cheatham & played more minutes than Elliott in every game. Elliott was only within 5 minutes of HC in 2 games -- the MSM a blowout in which Elliott & company were pulled when they let the lead get too close & the LSU game. I'd hardly call Elliott almost playing as many minutes as Haani in one game evidence "that he was moving deeper down the bench." I mean...he wasn't on the bench in the first place.
This doesn't feel at all like a Carter/Howard situation where Howard had played more minutes in 4 consecutive games and scored more in 3 consecutive, then followed it up with two more 20+ minute, double-digit outings while Carter was sitting with his knee.
And while I really like Elliott's skillset, defense, & early impressions, let's not forget he's a freshman and could still go either way. He might be the next great thing, he might be the next Todd Mayo, who's just a guy until he leaves the program.
Quote from: Jockey on December 01, 2017, 05:46:11 PM
Why? He isn't part of the team. SOP.
The prior years they still listed the other players that left at mid-season in the season statistics.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 01, 2017, 07:02:00 PM
26/64-40.6% the LSU game stung a little as he went 3/9. otherwise, 9/20, 9/18, 5/11 and 11/16
You listed his overall 3 pt %
Then gave a bunch of games of his field goal %
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 02, 2017, 11:02:20 AM
You listed his overall 3 pt %
Then gave a bunch of games of his field goal %
correct-94warrior asked what his 3 pt % was. i just thought the 11/16 was obviously the chicago state game and went on to show all the other games for comparison to come up with 40.6% i guess i could have put it out in neat little rows
Haani just posted a pic on Instagram of him in MU Jersey saying "I'll be back".
He deleted it like 2 mins later.
FWIW, probably not much.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 28, 2017, 02:22:55 PM
By age/class perhaps, but in terms of actual games played, MU was one of the least experienced teams in the nation last year.
If by "least experienced" you mean "average experience"
Hopefully woj can even out the classes, next year we will have 5 juniors and 4 sophomores?
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on December 03, 2017, 09:01:59 PM
Hopefully woj can even out the classes, next year we will have 5 juniors and 4 sophomores?
As it currently stands, 5 juniors and
3 sophomores, 3 freshmen.