This is a tough topic because I could honestly see the top 4 (JJJ, Duane, Deonte, and Jameel) having the biggest impact next year. Deonte is a beast who I think could have an Alando Tucker type career. Duane is a great shooter and is probably better than Derrick Wilson and could start by midseason. Jameel is the oldest and most experienced and we've seen Buzz's success with JUCO players, however we have a lot of depth up front. JuJuan is the highest rated recruit and plays a huge position of need for MU.
Ill go with Duane, in hopes that he surpasses Derrick and becomes the starting PG. If he can limit his turnovers he could be a really good player even as a freshman. Great shooter, great penetrator, proven winner.
Whichever one emerges as a starting PG has the greatest impact.
De. Wilson has been and will be a steady role player for the Warriors. I like him in that role, but Buzz needs to give the keys to Du. Wilson from day 1 to let him develop. He will likely have greatest impact, but I believe that Triple J, Burton and McKay will also have big moments. It looks like we could have a newer version of the 3 Amigos--maybe the 4 Musketeers.
The Four Horsemen
Out of these 4, I don't think Deonte has a chance to have the biggest impact next year. Maybe down the road he will, but with Jamil in front of him, I don't see him making as big an impact next year.
For me it really is a toss up between Duane, JJJ, and Jameel and I think a lot of it also has to do with how Derrick and Todd develop and improve over the summer. We all know Buzz isn't a huge fan of giving freshman big minutes. If Derrick and Todd really show they can handle their positions well, then you will see Duane and JJJ have more limited roles.
I honestly think it will be Duane, have my doubts about how well Derrick can develop his offensive game, but I think it could be between the three of them.
Also, Duane's senior year mixtape was recently released. Love the ending to it. "To be continued".....with a certain poster in the background. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9TxMYxKiEI
Du. Wilson will be a fucking star in college basketball.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 09, 2013, 08:27:25 AM
De. Wilson has been and will be a steady role player for the Warriors. I like him in that role, but Buzz needs to give the keys to Du. Wilson from day 1 to let him develop.
When Dominic James arrived and "was given the keys from day 1" he had an RSCI in the 30s and was physically mature. Even more importantly, MU had nobody else as an alternative. Duane's RSCI is in the high 50s and he comes in behind a solid guy (Buzz said he deserved to start last year) who has two years experience. He will most definitely NOT be "given the keys". I hope he'll prove too good to keep on the bench, but we're not desperate like we were in 2005.
Duane Wilson. Buzz will make him a great player
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2013, 09:14:02 AM
When Dominic James arrived and "was given the keys from day 1" he had an RSCI in the 30s and was physically mature. Even more importantly, MU had nobody else as an alternative. Duane's RSCI is in the high 50s and he comes in behind a solid guy (Buzz said he deserved to start last year) who has two years experience. He will most definitely NOT be "given the keys". I hope he'll prove too good to keep on the bench, but we're not desperate like we were in 2005.
Starting Derrick Wilson will just be a waste of time. We need a playmaker running the point, not a swing the ball every time he gets it PG who plays pretty good D.
Next year, Jameel will have the biggest impact. He will bring activity and athleticism to the 4/5 spot and will compete from day one. Love his ability to get off the floor quickly and seems to be developing a nice little mid-range game. Best of all, he has that JUCO chip on his shoulder and hopefully Buzz can continue his great streak of success with JUCOs going with Mckay.
Over their careers, I would say the biggest impact recruit will either be Duane or JJJ. Both are explosive scorers and should compete for playing time immediately, but I just think that Jameel's game is more polished as of right now, as he has played against better competition, and therefore Duane and JJJ's impacts will be more strongly felt in two or three years. They have the potential to be incredible players, though. I can't wait to watch them progress, its going to be awesome.
The new recruits give MU some speed and quickness lacking this year. Jameel's rebounding and his ability to run the floor, along with DuWilson's ability to push it, will add further dimensions. Jameel inside is a force to be reckoned with that will free the double downs on Sheesh. J3's shooting and ability to dribble drive with his height and athleticism will help offset the loss of Vander. Burton seems to play better against higher competition and may have the most ready BE body of the frosh.
But, MU loses a lot of experience and experience playing together. In the end, defense and depth will determine minutes, so I say McKay and JJJ have the biggest newbe impact. DuWilson needs to improve his on-ball defense to see more minutes, IMO.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 09, 2013, 09:41:56 AM
The new recruits give MU some speed and quickness lacking this year. Jameel's rebounding and his ability to run the floor, along with DuWilson's ability to push it, will add further dimensions. Jameel inside is a force to be reckoned with that will free the double downs on Sheesh. J3's shooting and ability to dribble drive with his height and athleticism will help offset the loss of Vander. Burton seems to play better against higher competition and may have the most ready BE body of the frosh.
But, MU loses a lot of experience and experience playing together. In the end, defense and depth will determine minutes, so I say McKay and JJJ have the biggest newbe impact. DuWilson needs to improve his on-ball defense to see more minutes, IMO.
I agree with your last point there. I attended the Dominican-Aquinas game and Koenig quite easily beat Duane on dribble drives three or four times. I couldn't tell if Duane was just playing lazy defense or if we just getting blown away, but, either way, it wasn't a great sign. However, he seems to get his fair share of steals, so I definitely believe he can develop into a great defender. The best aspect of the steals he gets is that it allows him to run in the open floor, something he is incredibly skilled at. He has the quickness, length, and vertical to be able to bother anyone he plays against, it just a matter of learning how to play more disciplined, consistent defense.
Quote from: joe pop on May 09, 2013, 09:25:08 AM
Starting Derrick Wilson will just be a waste of time. We need a playmaker running the point, not a swing the ball every time he gets it PG who plays pretty good D.
+1. Duane will be our PTPer!
Given Buzz'z history with freshman, I have a hard time believing that any of these guys will make a huge impact in their first year. I would love to see Duane Wilson be given the starting point guard spot, but I don't see that happening. Buzz loves Derrick Wilson and will likely stick with him for the long haul.
Great topic. I just hope Steve Taylor gets a lot more time.
Quote from: flash on May 09, 2013, 03:03:37 PM
Given Buzz'z history with freshman, I have a hard time believing that any of these guys will make a huge impact in their first year. I would love to see Duane Wilson be given the starting point guard spot, but I don't see that happening. Buzz loves Derrick Wilson and will likely stick with him for the long haul.
You make it sound like he's doing so out of loyalty and not because he believes him to be the best option. Whomever ever starts, it will be because Buzz believes him to be the best player at that point.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 09, 2013, 04:01:55 PM
You make it sound like he's doing so out of loyalty and not because he believes him to be the best option. Whomever ever starts, it will be because Buzz believes him to be the best player at that point.
Unless you are Derrick Wilson, who "should be the starter."
McKay will have the biggest impact of all the recruits.
Derrick Wilson will double his scoring average from 1.1 ppg to 2.2 ppg and increase his FG percentage from 27% to 30%. Then people on this board will defend him because he plays good defense and it is not his role to score. Oh boy...... Buzz will work this out and find out real soon when the new guys hit the floor against each other in October.
Agree with many of you who say that McKay will contribute the most next year, but over the course of their MU careers, Duane and JJJ will contribute the most.
But I'll give our fifth recruit, John Dawson, some love, simply cause no one ever talks about him. If that's not a chip-on-your-shoulder then I don't know what is. Also, he brought one of the best quotes to MUScoop: "I work out twice a day, six days a week. And on Sunday I go to church."
Quote from: joe pop on May 09, 2013, 09:25:08 AM
Starting Derrick Wilson will just be a waste of time. We need a playmaker running the point, not a swing the ball every time he gets it PG who plays pretty good D.
Duane Wilson is already one of my favorite MU players ever and he hasn't even put on a uni yet. He has gifted athletic ability, size for the position, is seriously skilled, and a dedicated hard worker. I'll be shocked if he doesn't thrive under Buzz. However, your "starting" logic is flawed. What if Derrick Wilson improves? What if starting really is a nod to the hardest worker and best leader in practice, even if it's a token gesture? What if Buzz likes starting defense and bringing offense off the bench (the Ox/Otule dynamic)? What if Duane proves to be somewhat foul prone and Buzz wants him on the floor at crunch time (EWill/Crowder & Anderson/JWil)? What if Buzz likes starting the experienced Derrick but Duane plays 28 mpg off the bench? What if Buzz wants to use starting as a carrot/goal to keep Duane hungry? People get so hung up on who "starts." We went 10 deep this year. If you can play, you'll play, and your minutes don't necessarily correlate directly to whether or not you start with Buzz.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on May 09, 2013, 09:56:44 PM
Duane Wilson is already one of my favorite MU players ever and he hasn't even put on a uni yet. He has gifted athletic ability, size for the position, is seriously skilled, and a dedicated hard worker. I'll be shocked if he doesn't thrive under Buzz. However, your "starting" logic is flawed. What if Derrick Wilson improves? What if starting really is a nod to the hardest worker and best leader in practice, even if it's a token gesture? What if Buzz likes starting defense and bringing offense off the bench (the Ox/Otule dynamic)? What if Duane proves to be somewhat foul prone and Buzz wants him on the floor at crunch time (EWill/Crowder & Anderson/JWil)? What if Buzz likes starting the experienced Derrick but Duane plays 28 mpg off the bench? What if Buzz wants to use starting as a carrot/goal to keep Duane hungry? People get so hung up on who "starts." We went 10 deep this year. If you can play, you'll play, and your minutes don't necessarily correlate directly to whether or not you start with Buzz.
All of this is very true. I got tired of the weekly post here wondering why Gardner wasn't starting, as if it would have mattered.
As for which of the four makes the biggest impact, I hope its Duane because he is the stud everybody wants him to be at our biggest position of need and the most important position on the floor. I'm thinking it will be whichever player can make a few 3s in a game, be it either Duane or JJJ. I mean, when everybody was in love with Mayo, it was when he was burying treys. When he went as cold as fridge in Antarctica, he was useless.
Derrick will run the show next year, so you might as well remove Duane from the list. IMO he will also reside atop the STOG tally by years end. Book it.
Quote from: PJDunn on May 10, 2013, 12:02:54 AM
Derrick will run the show next year, so you might as well remove Duane from the list. IMO he will also reside atop the STOG tally by years end. Book it.
Surely this post was meant to be in teal?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 09, 2013, 09:14:02 AM
(Buzz said he deserved to start last year)
imho, this was said to motivate junior, and blown way out of proportion by many fans....and he can't finish games until he's able to hit his ft's. in between horns, he's a solid role player.
Jameel, without a doubt. I think with Vander gone you're going to see Marquette go big a lot more often and McKay is going to be a huge beneficiary of those minutes as Jamil is able to play a 2/3 role more regularly.
I know everyone is down on Derrick Wilson, but until someone actually takes the ball from him on the court, there's no reason to expect he'll be anything other than a 20-25 mpg starter.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 10, 2013, 06:49:30 AM
Jameel, without a doubt. I think with Vander gone you're going to see Marquette go big a lot more often and McKay is going to be a huge beneficiary of those minutes as Jamil is able to play a 2/3 role more regularly.
I know everyone is down on Derrick Wilson, but until someone actually takes the ball from him on the court, there's no reason to expect he'll be anything other than a 20-25 mpg starter.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of these points.
The only issue might be if Steve Taylor steps up his game, limiting McKay's minutes, and another freshman shows that he can pour shots in the basket from the outside.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 10, 2013, 06:49:30 AM
I know everyone is down on Derrick Wilson, but until someone actually takes the ball from him on the court, there's no reason to expect he'll be anything other than a 20-25 mpg starter.
Barring injury, Duane or Dawson will have to be very special to limit Derrick to less than 20-25 mpg. That said, Avid makes a good point about his free throw shooting. If it doesn't improve significantly he's a liability in crunch time.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 10, 2013, 08:58:37 AM
Barring injury, Duane or Dawson will have to be very special to limit Derrick to less than 20-25 mpg. That said, Avid makes a good point about his free throw shooting. If it doesn't improve significantly he's a liability in crunch time.
Not just crunch time Lenny. 27% from field, 14% from three and 45% from ft. That has to change early in the season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on May 10, 2013, 06:49:30 AM
Jameel, without a doubt. I think with Vander gone you're going to see Marquette go big a lot more often and McKay is going to be a huge beneficiary of those minutes as Jamil is able to play a 2/3 role more regularly.
You think Jamil is going to be playing at the 2 sometimes? Not sure about that, but for fun how would that line up look? derrick, jamil, jameel, gardner and chris, that would be something to see
Quote from: LAMUfan on May 10, 2013, 09:23:53 AM
You think Jamil is going to be playing at the 2 sometimes? Not sure about that, but for fun how would that line up look? derrick, jamil, jameel, gardner and chris, that would be something to see
The length in that zone defense would be formidable.
Lots of good reasons why McKay should be the answer noted above. If Duane is weak on D, he won't get minutes out of Buzz.
If JJJ is the shooter he's cracked up to be, he might be the answer to this thread's question - Lord knows there were a few times when we needed a 3-point shooter with consistency lately.
Quote from: LAMUfan on May 10, 2013, 09:23:53 AM
You think Jamil is going to be playing at the 2 sometimes? Not sure about that, but for fun how would that line up look? derrick, jamil, jameel, gardner and chris, that would be something to see
Not to speak for brew, but I think all he means is the position played by Lockett last year, and Blue the year before. He can't play a ton of minutes there because he isn't an outside shooter by any means.
Jamil showed a lot and was really the only guy on the team at the end of the year that I wanted to see take a 3. He is ready to bust out, just by playing the way he played in the later part of last year. He will get more attention, which means a guy like JJJ can get some open looks.
JJJ has to be the obvious candidate to contribute, IF, he can come in a shoot it from day one. A lot of freshman have trouble adjusting to the speed and the quicker release needed. He seems like he already has good form and a quick release, so I am hopeful that he will be able to shoot it and thus open up driving lanes from day one.
Quote from: ResidentBrown on May 09, 2013, 08:37:51 AM
The Four Horsemen
Ugh, no way. That has the stench of the Domers.
Quote from: slingkong on May 10, 2013, 10:25:06 AM
Ugh, no way. That has the stench of the Domers.
Well the Three Amigos had the stench of Martin Short, and no one seemed to mind.
The Four Seasons? The Four Corners? The Four Properties of Water? The Four Rules of Gun Safety? Charlotte, Carrie, Samantha, and Miranda?
Quote from: ResidentBrown on May 10, 2013, 10:57:48 AM
Well the Three Amigos had the stench of Martin Short, and no one seemed to mind.
Martin Short>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Notre Dame.
Quote from: ResidentBrown on May 10, 2013, 10:57:48 AM
Well the Three Amigos had the stench of Martin Short, and no one seemed to mind.
The Four Seasons? The Four Corners? The Four Properties of Water? The Four Rules of Gun Safety? Charlotte, Carrie, Samantha, and Miranda?
This was awful until the Sex and the City reference. Wait...
In an interview after Trey J signed he said that Buzz kept telling him he would be the leading scorer on the team next year. Now this could be a recruiting tactic and I'm sure it was, but from what I've heard Buzz doesn't lie to these kids.
That being said I'm going with Jameel because of experience
Great topic Joe pop!
I'm thinking Duane will be my favorite all time player at MU when all is said and done. I don't see all the hate on Derrick, remember what Vander was like his sophomore year? Derrick will be starting all year, bank on that. *barring injury of course
What more do you want out of a pg, someone who doesn't turn the ball over and gets the offense in rhythm. I know he's got 1/2 down, but it's very similar with De'De' and the Otule situation. De'De' is definitely more skilled offensively, and Chris is a better defensive player.
Bold prediction: Derrick averages 10 and 6 a game this year.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on May 09, 2013, 09:56:44 PM
Duane Wilson is already one of my favorite MU players ever and he hasn't even put on a uni yet. He has gifted athletic ability, size for the position, is seriously skilled, and a dedicated hard worker. I'll be shocked if he doesn't thrive under Buzz. However, your "starting" logic is flawed. What if Derrick Wilson improves? What if starting really is a nod to the hardest worker and best leader in practice, even if it's a token gesture? What if Buzz likes starting defense and bringing offense off the bench (the Ox/Otule dynamic)? What if Duane proves to be somewhat foul prone and Buzz wants him on the floor at crunch time (EWill/Crowder & Anderson/JWil)? What if Buzz likes starting the experienced Derrick but Duane plays 28 mpg off the bench? What if Buzz wants to use starting as a carrot/goal to keep Duane hungry? People get so hung up on who "starts." We went 10 deep this year. If you can play, you'll play, and your minutes don't necessarily correlate directly to whether or not you start with Buzz.
Thats true Buzz doesnt neccesarily start the best player at the position as we saw last year. I guess I meant who will get the majority of the PG minutes.
Quote from: JD on May 10, 2013, 12:32:16 PM
I'm thinking Duane will be my favorite all time player at MU when all is said and done. I don't see all the hate on Derrick, remember what Vander was like his sophomore year? Derrick will be starting all year, bank on that. *barring injury of course
What more do you want out of a pg, someone who doesn't turn the ball over and gets the offense in rhythm. I know he's got 1/2 down, but it's very similar with De'De' and the Otule situation. De'De' is definitely more skilled offensively, and Chris is a better defensive player.
Bold prediction: Derrick averages 10 and 6 a game this year.
Like the Gardner and Otule situation I dont like when Buzz starts defense or just a player who plays less minutes than his backup. So i think Duane is a better player than Derrick and should start. But Buzz is the coach and a damn good one so we'll see.
Quote from: JD on May 10, 2013, 12:32:16 PM
I'm thinking Duane will be my favorite all time player at MU when all is said and done. I don't see all the hate on Derrick, remember what Vander was like his sophomore year? Derrick will be starting all year, bank on that. *barring injury of course
What more do you want out of a pg, someone who doesn't turn the ball over and gets the offense in rhythm. I know he's got 1/2 down, but it's very similar with De'De' and the Otule situation. De'De' is definitely more skilled offensively, and Chris is a better defensive player.
Bold prediction: Derrick averages 10 and 6 a game this year.
If this happens, which is a big IF, this team has Elite 8/Final 4 all over it
You don't need scoring from the point guard position, but you definitely need offense...if that makes any sense.
Duane needs to make an impact so he's my #1. My concern is his ability to hold up over a lengthy, physically grueling season.
Jameel is a close #2. He's got a little more experience under his belt and is probably best ready for his position.
Deonte is body ready but his adjustment to the speed of the game will be interesting to see.
JJJ...he's gonna be the best of the bunch. His ceiling is sky high but he's going to need some seasoning his first two years. I predict an explosion his junior year and star numbers his senior year.
This has to be one of the most hyped up recruiting classes in MU history. I hope they all turn out to be impact players. I think Jameel will make the biggest impact right away because of his experience. You can never have too many big men.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 10, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
You don't need scoring from the point guard position, but you definitely need offense...if that makes any sense.
Oodles of sense, Skinkmeister!
The PG has to orchestrate the offense, settle things down when things are getting hairy, make others around him better.
Still, it definitely helps when a PG can create for himself at times, and most excellent teams have a PG who can knock down open Js.
And for goodness sake, the PG has to make more than 46% of his FTs ... or else the coach can't afford to have him on the floor at the very time he needs a good PG the most.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on May 10, 2013, 05:20:49 PM
Duane needs to make an impact so he's my #1. My concern is his ability to hold up over a lengthy, physically grueling season.
Jameel is a close #2. He's got a little more experience under his belt and is probably best ready for his position.
Deonte is body ready but his adjustment to the speed of the game will be interesting to see.
JJJ...he's gonna be the best of the bunch. His ceiling is sky high but he's going to need some seasoning his first two years. I predict an explosion his junior year and star numbers his senior year.
JJJ will be off to the NBA by his sophomore year. Book it!
Again, Du. Wilson will be a fucking star in college basketball.
I think you have to weigh talent vs being physically ready to play. JJJ is the best offensive player in the group, but if he weighs only 185 pounds he is going to have problems. The same goes for McKay who is also on the light side. Duane is much more talented than Derrick, but he has not played a second of college basketball. He still needs to prove that he will not be a turnover machine. Until he shows he can get the ball up court he cannot be counted on. Remember two highly regarded point guards Crean brought in. I do not remember their names, but one was from Israel and the other was from Michigan and neither one could get the ball up court against a press. On the other hand Diener never had any problem with bringing the ball up court. We can hope, but we should not just assume Duane will be a good point guard as a freshmen. Burton is the recruit with a college ready body and he is also our 2nd highest rated recruit. His ability to take the ball strongly to the basket fits in perfectly with Buzz's offense, so I do not think he should be so easily ruled out as the freshmen with the most impact. A lot might depend on how quick Taylor recovers from his surgery.
Deonte & JJJ
Gonna go out on a limb and say John Dawson. He might not play many minutes, but what he can bring to practices and game preps will be super helpful.
Wilson and IMO it will start on day one.
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 11, 2013, 11:39:28 AM
Deonte & JJJ
Hope both qualify and are eligible when the season starts academically.
If so, I will say Duane Wilson. I would have said Steve Taylor but he right now on crutches so I scratch that.
Jamil has the nature of a deferer to me. He defers too much. Especially early on. But I think I always have to look to the PG play as being impactful.
PG is where you need true leadership and where Junior Cadougan will be the hardest and most vital guy to replace next year, and Blue will be the easiest.
But that would mean that Duane has to get off and running the minute he hits the floor here at MU. So if you pinned me down I would say Duane.
Quote from: bilsu on May 11, 2013, 08:16:44 AM
I think you have to weigh talent vs being physically ready to play. JJJ is the best offensive player in the group, but if he weighs only 185 pounds he is going to have problems. The same goes for McKay who is also on the light side. Duane is much more talented than Derrick, but he has not played a second of college basketball. He still needs to prove that he will not be a turnover machine. Until he shows he can get the ball up court he cannot be counted on. Remember two highly regarded point guards Crean brought in. I do not remember their names, but one was from Israel and the other was from Michigan and neither one could get the ball up court against a press. On the other hand Diener never had any problem with bringing the ball up court. We can hope, but we should not just assume Duane will be a good point guard as a freshmen. Burton is the recruit with a college ready body and he is also our 2nd highest rated recruit. His ability to take the ball strongly to the basket fits in perfectly with Buzz's offense, so I do not think he should be so easily ruled out as the freshmen with the most impact. A lot might depend on how quick Taylor recovers from his surgery.
Totally disagree. Duane can get the ball up the court and break a press if he can't do anything else...trust me.
And depending on what Buzz wants to run with this squad he can get them into it and spearhead it. PG is too important in college basketball for Duane or a top flight scorer [JJJ] not to top this list or be in the top 3 of any lists like this.
And he has enough ability to be impactful more then anyone else and at his position he is strong enough, quick enough, and athletic and talented enough where he will bring an entirely different dimension then Junior did.
I like the point you made about the size of some of these cats. They are a bit on the light side and seem to not like weights. That is why I did not choose JJJ but I can be totally wrong on that one.
Burton I considered long and hard on, but I think he might be overwhelmed early on and struggle to find his niche' and a role and position to play. Seems to me he needs to work on his feet and awareness on defense or Buzz will sit him.
But I just think if Buzz likes Duane and he is healthy to start the season, he will be impactful because he can bring the ball up and he can create and he can MAKE....SHOTS!
That simple.
To me that is the bottom line. And I like his motor and and personality on the court. A take charge, I'll get it done kind of kid.
Now with that said...my truly hands down guy for this was Todd Mayo but I can't trust Todd to walk across the street and back without some issue.
1. Duane Wilson
2. Jamil Wilson
3. Todd Mayo *<<<< asterisk [If he is here then...] So tempted to put Burton here. But that is my Milwaukee heart talking...
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 10, 2013, 03:26:19 PM
You don't need scoring from the point guard position, but you definitely need offense...if that makes any sense.
It depends on what team you are talking about. Tell that to Michigan and Trey Burke. Yes you do, but I get what you are saying.
You have to factor in how the team is made. With MU finally having some size down low, this team does need a scoring backcourt and they need the PG to put some pressure on the other teams PG by being a willing and able scorer so he can draw attention and get teams out of a zone they might play against MU.
I hear ya though...I get what you are saying. But I have to see what Buzz is working with if they can play in the Jim Ganzer Summer Tournament for a more definite answer.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 13, 2013, 01:02:28 AM
Now with that said...my truly hands down guy for this was Todd Mayo but I can't trust Todd to walk across the street and back without some issue.
1. Duane Wilson
2. Jamil Wilson
3. Todd Mayo *<<<< asterisk [If he is here then...] So tempted to put Burton here. But that is my Milwaukee heart talking...
Uh, the thread is about the biggest impact
recruit there sportsfans, not who will have the biggest impact.
I'm going with Duane Wilson for the simple fact he plays the position the Warriors need the most from. Though, did you see the numbers Jameel put up the other day at the JUCO all star game? 35pts-16reb-5bl and MVP.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 13, 2013, 12:55:52 AM
Hope both qualify and are eligible when the season starts academically.
Sounds like you think this may be a problem. Based on what?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2013, 08:28:46 AM
Sounds like you think this may be a problem. Based on what?
It won't be a problem.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 13, 2013, 08:39:03 AM
It won't be a problem.
Yeah, I think all of our incoming recruits have qualified.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 13, 2013, 08:28:46 AM
Sounds like you think this may be a problem. Based on what?
That poster has made repeated mentions of supposed classroom problems for Burton, based on nothing as far as I can tell. At some point I start to think they have something against Burton, since there is no official information and the unofficial information I have heard is that he is a good student.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 13, 2013, 01:16:08 AM
It depends on what team you are talking about. Tell that to Michigan and Trey Burke. Yes you do, but I get what you are saying.
You have to factor in how the team is made. With MU finally having some size down low, this team does need a scoring backcourt and they need the PG to put some pressure on the other teams PG by being a willing and able scorer so he can draw attention and get teams out of a zone they might play against MU.
I hear ya though...I get what you are saying. But I have to see what Buzz is working with if they can play in the Jim Ganzer Summer Tournament for a more definite answer.
This team got to two S16s and a E8 with Junior Cadougan as its point guard. As long as they can get some decent scoring from the traditional 2 and 3 positions, you just don't need a PG to score in this offense. Their job is to break down the defense and set others up.
Quote from: THRILLHO on May 13, 2013, 08:46:53 AM
That poster has made repeated mentions of supposed classroom problems for Burton, based on nothing as far as I can tell. At some point I start to think they have something against Burton, since there is no official information and the unofficial information I have heard is that he is a good student.
The "hope they both qualify and are ready when the season starts academically" is the kind of passive aggressive BS that I absolutely hate.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 13, 2013, 08:58:22 AM
This team got to two S16s and a E8 with Junior Cadougan as its point guard. As long as they can get some decent scoring from the traditional 2 and 3 positions, you just don't need a PG to score in this offense. Their job is to break down the defense and set others up.
Maybe if they had a point guard who could shoot consistently they'd have gone to the Final Four.
The Cubs went to the playoffs with Joe Borowski as their closer. Does that mean a team shouldn't aim to have a closer better than Joe Borowski?
Quote from: bilsu on May 11, 2013, 08:16:44 AM
I think you have to weigh talent vs being physically ready to play. JJJ is the best offensive player in the group, but if he weighs only 185 pounds he is going to have problems. The same goes for McKay who is also on the light side. Duane is much more talented than Derrick, but he has not played a second of college basketball. He still needs to prove that he will not be a turnover machine. Until he shows he can get the ball up court he cannot be counted on. Remember two highly regarded point guards Crean brought in. I do not remember their names, but one was from Israel and the other was from Michigan and neither one could get the ball up court against a press. On the other hand Diener never had any problem with bringing the ball up court. We can hope, but we should not just assume Duane will be a good point guard as a freshmen. Burton is the recruit with a college ready body and he is also our 2nd highest rated recruit. His ability to take the ball strongly to the basket fits in perfectly with Buzz's offense, so I do not think he should be so easily ruled out as the freshmen with the most impact. A lot might depend on how quick Taylor recovers from his surgery.
Interesting that you mentioned JJJ perhaps being too skinny in the same post as mentioning Diener being outstanding.
Diener weighed about 81 pounds.
Quote from: MU82 on May 13, 2013, 09:47:02 AM
Maybe if they had a point guard who could shoot consistently they'd have gone to the Final Four.
The Cubs went to the playoffs with Joe Borowski as their closer. Does that mean a team shouldn't aim to have a closer better than Joe Borowski?
The closer slot isn't nearly as important as the point guard position but your point (no pun intended) is well taken nonetheless.
Quote from: MU82 on May 13, 2013, 09:47:02 AM
Maybe if they had a point guard who could shoot consistently they'd have gone to the Final Four.
All I am saying is that you don't NEED a PG that can shoot in this offense....as long as you are getting the shooting from other players. So if Derrick can develop his game offensively, and either Todd gets more consistent and/or a freshman like JJJ or an off-ball-Duane steps up, he will be fine as the PG.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 13, 2013, 10:51:44 AM
All I am saying is that you don't NEED a PG that can shoot in this offense....as long as you are getting the shooting from other players. So if Derrick can develop his game offensively, and either Todd gets more consistent and/or a freshman like JJJ or an off-ball-Duane steps up, he will be fine as the PG.
I think you are wrong there Skink. In order to get to the next level, we do need a PG that can shoot in this offense. It will make our inside game more effective, and will win several more games. De. Wilson is not that answer, and is not Junior.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 13, 2013, 11:01:31 AM
I think you are wrong there Skink. In order to get to the next level, we do need a PG that can shoot in this offense. It will make our inside game more effective, and will win several more games. De. Wilson is not that answer, and is not Junior.
We were ONE GAME away from the Final Four last with no outside consistent shooting ability, from not just our point guard, but from our entire roster.
I would argue that if Vander shot more like Hardaway, Jr....or Lockett more like Luke Hancock...we very well could have been a Final Four team even with Junior as our point guard. Hell, Louisville won the national championship with a point guard with a worse FG% than Junior!!! And only a slightly better 3FG%. (Both below 30%)
The simple answer always is "if we had better players we would play better," and yeah that would be nice. But the real question to ask is "is it *necessary*...or is it simply a luxury that we don't have." And I think a scoring point guard *isn't* a necessity IF you have the other pieces around him.
Quote from: LAMUfan on May 10, 2013, 09:23:53 AM
You think Jamil is going to be playing at the 2 sometimes? Not sure about that, but for fun how would that line up look? derrick, jamil, jameel, gardner and chris, that would be something to see
Derrick, Jamil, Taylor, Jameel, Otule....that's the line-up when Jamil plays the two and I guarantee it scares the bejesus out of teams.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on May 13, 2013, 12:55:52 AM
Hope both qualify and are eligible when the season starts academically.
Go to the 30 second mark of this video and then try to convince all of us, for the 20th time, that Deonte Burton won't cut it academically.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NAELrYTWJM
Quote from: willie warrior on May 13, 2013, 11:01:31 AM
I think you are wrong there Skink. In order to get to the next level, we do need a PG that can shoot in this offense. It will make our inside game more effective, and will win several more games. De. Wilson is not that answer, and is not Junior.
Willie, you do NOT need scoring from every position. Can you evaluate talent on anything but scoring. Tony Miller was not a scorer. Cordell Henry was not a scorer.
Brandon Jennings is a scorer, but he does not make anyone else better.
Quote from: mu03eng on May 13, 2013, 11:28:06 AM
Derrick, Jamil, Taylor, Jameel, Otule....that's the line-up when Jamil plays the two and I guarantee it scares the bejesus out of teams.
That lineup wont happen. I dont understand this fantasy to play a rediculously huge lineup just because its possible.
Quote from: joe pop on May 14, 2013, 09:13:47 AM
That lineup wont happen. I dont understand this fantasy to play a rediculously huge lineup just because its possible.
Why won't it happen? There is plenty of rebounding, scoring, and defense there. Why wouldn't you do it? That's Buzz's whole philosophy of a 1, a 5 and 3 switchables. Besides how do you guard that line-up if you are the other team?
Quote from: mu03eng on May 14, 2013, 12:18:47 PM
Why won't it happen? There is plenty of rebounding, scoring, and defense there. Why wouldn't you do it? That's Buzz's whole philosophy of a 1, a 5 and 3 switchables. Besides how do you guard that line-up if you are the other team?
I agree, and with Jameel putting up great numbers as a rebounder, you could potentially play an insanely long Syracuse-style zone with that lineup, disrupt every pass, and hopefully not give up much on the boards. I would be surprised if we didn't at least see Buzz try it out in the early season.
Quote from: mu-rara on May 13, 2013, 12:25:11 PM
Willie, you do NOT need scoring from every position. Can you evaluate talent on anything but scoring. Tony Miller was not a scorer. Cordell Henry was not a scorer.
Brandon Jennings is a scorer, but he does not make anyone else better.
How many Final Fours did Tony Miller and Cordell Henry play in?
Travis Diener, meanwhile, did play in a Final Four. And without his shooting, we wouldn't have made it out of either the first or second rounds.
As for a few points others have made ...
Yes, Junior had a better FG% than Peyton Siva, it is true. But teams still had to respect Siva's shot because he was perceived to be a better outside shooter (and I'm guessing that a shot chart would confirm that he was). He definitely was a better 3PT shooter and a far better FT shooter. And he could get red hot and carry Louisville through long stretches. Siva definitely wasn't a "pure shooter," but he was an offensive creator who could drive the gaps, get inside and create for himself and others. I don't think it was a coincidence that Louisville excelled with him at PG -- despite his occasional turnover-prone play. A coach as smart as Pitino happily traded a few turnovers for a chance to get greatness out of his PG. And I'd happily trade Derrick Wilson's cautious, create-nothing offensive style for that of a PG who could be a more dynamic set-up man for himself and others.
Is it
"necessary" for the PG to be able to shoot/score? No, I guess not. But if you look at the list of NCAA champions -- and even of Final Four teams -- did any have PGs incapable of creating offense for themselves and others? Most, in fact, had excellent PGs.
Quote from: mu-rara on May 13, 2013, 12:25:11 PM
Willie, you do NOT need scoring from every position. Can you evaluate talent on anything but scoring. Tony Miller was not a scorer. Cordell Henry was not a scorer.
This is wrong. Tony Miller and especially Cordell Henry were scorers. Miller scored over 1,000 points for his career (yearly averages 6.4, 8.8, 7.2 & 10.8 for teams that played at a glacial pace thanks to O'Neill) and could penetrate and score, and more important, dish out assists. He was a very helpful offensive player. Cordell Henry is our 22nd all-time leading scorer (1347 pts and averaged 15.2 ppg his senior season and 11.2 for his career). How many points does Derrick Wilson have after half his college career is over? 60.
I agree that you don't need prolific scoring from every position. But the defense HAS to feel like they need to guard your PG. Derrick brings a lot to the table in terms of defense and not turning the ball over, but if he is going to run the team he has to be a threat to score.
Quote from: mu-rara on May 13, 2013, 12:25:11 PM
Willie, you do NOT need scoring from every position. Can you evaluate talent on anything but scoring. Tony Miller was not a scorer. Cordell Henry was not a scorer.
Brandon Jennings is a scorer, but he does not make anyone else better.
Didn't say you need scoring at every position. I did say we need a PG that can shoot--that opens up the inside game more. While Tony Miller was not a scorer, he did average close to 10PPG his last year, and is MU all time assist leader, which likely will never be surpassed. Cordell Henry averaged about 14 to 15 his last year. What are you smoking--pass it on.
Quote from: MU82 on May 14, 2013, 01:46:49 PM
Yes, Junior had a better FG% than Peyton Siva, it is true. But teams still had to respect Siva's shot because he was perceived to be a better outside shooter (and I'm guessing that a shot chart would confirm that he was). He definitely was a better 3PT shooter and a far better FT shooter. And he could get red hot and carry Louisville through long stretches. Siva definitely wasn't a "pure shooter," but he was an offensive creator who could drive the gaps, get inside and create for himself and others.
Siva was defninitely not a good 3 point shooter, but you and I agree. You need to create offense from your PG position...but you don't need your PG to necessarily score more than Junior did last year.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 14, 2013, 03:36:35 PM
Siva was defninitely not a good 3 point shooter, but you and I agree. You need to create offense from your PG position...but you don't need your PG to necessarily score more than Junior did last year.
Fair enough. I mean, Siva only averaged 10 and hit just one trey in the entire tourney.
Still, he did score 16 in the regional final and 18 in the title game and often was a dynamic player. Put it this way: I'd take it on next year's team with the rest of next year's roster! Can D-Will even be a really-really-really-poor-man's version of that? We'll see! It's hard for me to envision it as I sit here today, but players
do get better.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:18:42 PM
You, sir, are CORRECT.
So you carry on conversations with yourself.
Anything else you do0 with yourself?
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 18, 2013, 08:25:15 PM
So you carry on conversations with yourself.
Anything else you do0 with yourself?
Yes, but most of the time your mom is involved.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:26:05 PM
Yes, but most of the time your mom is involved.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZLV6URW.gif)
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:26:05 PM
Yes, but most of the time your mom is involved.
Well...that took a turn.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:26:05 PM
Yes, but most of the time your mom is involved.
That wouldn't be by yourself, unless either Another's mom is imaginary or you ARE Another's mom.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:18:42 PM
You, sir, are CORRECT.
That's cute.
Lots of hoops left to be played though. Look for Jameel McKay to come on strong.
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 18, 2013, 08:18:42 PM
You, sir, are CORRECT.
Quote from: Heisenberg on December 18, 2013, 08:25:15 PM
So you carry on conversations with yourself.
Anything else you do0 with yourself?
The man was right, and is right, he's entitled to take a bow, IMHO.
Oh he did.
I said before the season started based on pro am that McKay was not going to play much and that Burton was a stud. JJJ was an unknown to me, because he barely played during pro am. I thought Duane would be good, but expectations for him were to high.
Quote from: LittleMurs on December 19, 2013, 07:49:12 AM
The man was right, and is right, he's entitled to take a bow, IMHO.
Really?
Dude picked 40% of the field as his "choice" for biggest impact recruit. Since when did choose one become choose nearly half of the recruits and take a bow with only one-third of the season complete?
God damn, people hurt themselves these days pointing out how awesome their awesomely awesome life is that everything they do and touch turns out awesomer than the awesome of awesomes to make crap just more awesome.