MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: geps on February 27, 2013, 08:48:37 PM
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Getting hammered again. Does Barnes get another year? Lets hope so.
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Please delete this before it turns into a crap storm. It would be for the good of humanity, and this board.
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Buzz will stay as long as we will have him...his words.
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Texas to C7
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Buzz will stay as long as we will have him...his words.
Good start there. Thanks.
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Please delete this before it turns into a crap storm. It would be for the good of humanity, and this board.
+1000
Please mods. I beg you.
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Buzz will stay as long as we will PAYhim
fixed
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fixed
That's not what he said. He is getting paid, very handsomely. Earning $483K MORE than Rick Barnes currently.
According to USA Today, Buzz is the 8th highest paid coach in the NCAA for hoops. Barnes is 10th.
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It's all irrelevant because Barnes is going nowhere. He's had one down season and his best player missed 75% of the season. Has tons of young talent and has been a proven recruiter. If he has a couple more seasons like this he'll be given his walking papers, but not after one year.
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Do you really expect him to say "Im going where the money is"?
If Texas or another throws the full boat at him, he'll most likely go. If they don't, he'll stay.
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Do you really expect him to say "Im going where the money is"?
If Texas or another throws the full boat at him, he'll most likely go. If they don't, he'll stay.
Why would they throw money at Buzz? They already have a coach.
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Do you really expect him to say "Im going where the money is"?
If Texas or another throws the full boat at him, he'll most likely go. If they don't, he'll stay.
Depends if he is a man of his word. Last year, Jered Weaver of the Angels took approximately $60 million LESS to stay where he was. He stayed and honored his word. Everyone is a bit different.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/23/sports/la-sp-0224-angels-20130224
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That Texas team has no upperclassmen. It's all freshmen and sophomores.
Barnes isn't going anywhere. Chill the F out.
And Chicos... stop trolling.
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Do you really expect him to say "Im going where the money is"?
If Texas or another throws the full boat at him, he'll most likely go. If they don't, he'll stay.
I don't follow MLB but didn't Grienke(sp?) say something about how he took the most money he could get this past winter?
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I don't follow MLB but didn't Grienke(sp?) say something about how he took the most money he could get this past winter?
Yup, he said it yesterday. Said if the worst team in baseball offered the most money, that's where he was going. Not exactly Tom Bradyesque
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And Chicos... stop trolling.
This beautiful for Chicos....
He'll calmly tell you, in his usual, set up, passive aggressive manner, that Buzz isn't going anywhere because Buzz once said he'll be here as long they'll have me or something to that effect.
Then, when Buzz leaves, which we all know to be very possible, he will be able to compare Buzz to Crean and prove to everyone that Crean wasn't an a-hole. He'll tell us how Crean is just like Buzz.
This has been brewing for years in Chicos' mind. Its a master plan.
The thing is, if Buzz never leaves, no one will be the wiser about Chicos' game of chess. So, no loss for him. Plus, he'll have a thousand other opportunities to casually point out what an unfair shake Crean has gotten by most of the MU faithful.
Somethings never change. Death and Taxes, as they say.
Oh, and I am not a pyschologist and have absolutely not legitimate expertise upon which to base the aforementioned opinions. But, I did stay in a ....
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Why would they throw money at Buzz? They already have a coach.
just speaking hypothetically. I Don't think they will for now. I'm just saying Buzz will probably leave if he gets offered considerably more money at a school where he can recruit.
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Let's make sure we get Greinke in context......“It’s obviously the No. 1 thing,” Greinke said. “I could play for the worst team if they paid the most. . . . If the last-place team offers $200 million and the first-place team offers $10, I’m going to go for the $200 million no matter what team it was.”
So what we don't know is if the best team offered 170M and the worst team offered 180M where would he go?
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"Man of his word and such"
Speaking of that soccer stadium donation...
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"Man of his word and such"
Speaking of that soccer stadium donation...
We already know he isn't a man of his word...few coaches are, which is the point.
Edit: That stadium still hasn't been built...price tag of $5M and Crean donated $100K contingent on the project going forward....why wasn't the other $4.9M raised and the facility built?
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Buzz has said he will stay as long we want him. Some tea leaves indicated he isn't 100% wanted. I personally believe they all realize they're better together than apart.
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This beautiful for Chicos....
Thanks, only you got a few things wrong.
We already know Crean is a prick...I figure I'm one of only a few people on this board that actually had to work for him so I can vouch. He did a lot of good, but tough guy to work for. He left MU, but not high and dry. He left for a better school, better basketball program, more stable conference and one of the bluebloods. Can't blame him.
Buzz said he won't go, I have to trust him. If he leaves, he leaves. I hope he doesn't, it would be a shame to go back to the cycle of losing a coach every 5 years that was stopped...finally...with the last guy. We're paying Buzz top dollars, has a great recruiting class coming in, fans love him....why leave?
Now, if he does, I won't say it's like TC. I will, say it's like every other coach that leaves for more money...especially if he leaves for Texas. If he leaves for UCLA, Kansas, IU, Kentucky, Duke...well then that's a different story. Texas? Not so much.
MU needs Buzz to stay around a long time. I doubt very much Barnes is going anywhere. Buzz has a good thing going...tons of money, not dealing with football coach and his salary, a school firmly behind hoops first, not second.
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Texas forces OT.....kids fighting for their coach.... ;D
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Thanks, only you got a few things wrong.
Eh. Figures. Can't trust Holiday Inn. But, I do heart you nonetheless.
Serious question: Are you still pissed at Buzz for making you look foolish re: the hiring process criticism?
I jest, I jest. Please don't answer that question. Loves.
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Depends if he is a man of his word. Last year, Jered Weaver of the Angels took approximately $60 million LESS to stay where he was. He stayed and honored his word. Everyone is a bit different.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/23/sports/la-sp-0224-angels-20130224
The innuendo deafens. I am actually laughing it is so predictable. Really, why do you dislike The Buzzard? He's good man who takes care of his kids, his family, and reps Marquette vary well. And, oh, he's a great coach who wins.
Personally, I find him to be a refreshing change. He's a bit zany but that adds to the charm. Very refreshing, indeed!
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Let's make sure we get Greinke in context......“It’s obviously the No. 1 thing,” Greinke said. “I could play for the worst team if they paid the most. . . . If the last-place team offers $200 million and the first-place team offers $10, I’m going to go for the $200 million no matter what team it was.”
So what we don't know is if the best team offered 170M and the worst team offered 180M where would he go?
Seems to me his quote speaks for itself...he's going to the highest bidder, not matter what team it was.
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Yup, he said it yesterday. Said if the worst team in baseball offered the most money, that's where he was going. Not exactly Tom Bradyesque
Tom Brady? Why, isn't he a Michigan Man? Hail!
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If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.....he used an absurd example......nobody asked him where the cutoff would be.
Back to Texas.....you really have to love college basketball.....Texas having a horrible year...everything has gone wrong....they are down 22 with 7 minutes to go andf come roaring back to force OT...these kids are playing like it's for the conference championship.....
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This beautiful for Chicos....
He'll calmly tell you, in his usual, set up, passive aggressive manner, that Buzz isn't going anywhere because Buzz once said he'll be here as long they'll have me or something to that effect.
Then, when Buzz leaves, which we all know to be very possible, he will be able to compare Buzz to Crean and prove to everyone that Crean wasn't an a-hole. He'll tell us how Crean is just like Buzz.
This has been brewing for years in Chicos' mind. Its a master plan.
The thing is, if Buzz never leaves, no one will be the wiser about Chicos' game of chess. So, no loss for him. Plus, he'll have a thousand other opportunities to casually point out what an unfair shake Crean has gotten by most of the MU faithful.
Somethings never change. Death and Taxes, as they say.
Oh, and I am not a pyschologist and have absolutely not legitimate expertise upon which to base the aforementioned opinions. But, I did stay in a ....
Haha there are so many great (and true) things in this post that I don't even know where to begin.
The only thing I would look to change is that if Buzz never does leave he may all of a sudden go missing and, ironically, Hoopaloop may reappear to the board!
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Yeah false alarm Texas comes back. We're good.
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"Man of his word and such"
Speaking of that soccer stadium donation...
HEY! MARQUETTE SOCCER!
(http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/keltiecolleen/default/the-hater--large-msg-133435132633.jpg)
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Buzz will stay as long as we will have him...his words.
Depends if he is a man of his word. Last year, Jered Weaver of the Angels took approximately $60 million LESS to stay where he was. He stayed and honored his word. Everyone is a bit different.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/23/sports/la-sp-0224-angels-20130224
Forget that the very few people who are above Buzz at Marquette University (AKA his bosses) have changed since he said that and since he was first hired and thus the overall situation may have changed or may change in the future. Minor details. He gave us his word so if he leaves he's a liar. In the faces of Hoopaloop...wait, Chicos... ::)
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Buzz has said he will stay as long we want him. Some tea leaves indicated he isn't 100% wanted. I personally believe they all realize they're better together than apart.
$2.8M says he is wanted...and I agree, they are better together than apart.
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Do you really expect him to say "Im going where the money is"?
If Texas or another throws the full boat at him, he'll most likely go. If they don't, he'll stay.
Glad to know that you're so in touch with Buzz. What did you guys have for dinner tonight?
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Depends if he is a man of his word. Last year, Jered Weaver of the Angels took approximately $60 million LESS to stay where he was. He stayed and honored his word. Everyone is a bit different.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/23/sports/la-sp-0224-angels-20130224
I thought that your point over the past 4 years nine months is everyone is the same.
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The innuendo deafens. I am actually laughing it is so predictable. Really, why do you dislike The Buzzard? He's good man who takes care of his kids, his family, and reps Marquette vary well. And, oh, he's a great coach who wins.
Personally, I find him to be a refreshing change. He's a bit zany but that adds to the charm. Very refreshing, indeed!
Dislike him? Please....I enjoy him immensely. Hope he is around for a long time. The things he was doing that I didn't care for, he has stopped. Nothing not to like about him.
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Texas had 12 straight 20 win seasons. I do not think you fire a successful coach for one off year.
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I heard Buzz say that he has taken to wearing blue and gold all the time because he only wins if he is wearing blue and gold. He'd look pretty funny on the Texas sideline all decked out in blue and gold. :-)
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Texas had 12 straight 20 win seasons. I do not think you fire a successful coach for one off year.
Well, Tom Crean was fired after losing to Stanford in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
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Texas forces OT.....kids fighting for their coach.... ;D
Battle of the Alamo II: Remember Rick Barnes!
(http://vonsworks.com/McArdles%20Dawn%20at%20the%20Alamo.jpg)
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In regards to the crazy thought of Barnes getting fired, Texas currently has the 4th longest consecutive NCAA appearance streak... A whopping 14years in a row in the vig dance.
I think they'll give Barnes a bit of a leash.
//endthread
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Mass use of the ignore button ends this.
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Chico's, you're trolling. Knock it off.
Buzz is eccentric, but he's not that much different than other high level D1 coaches.
If/when Buzz finds an opportunity that is better personally and professionally, he will take it. That could be next year. That could be 20 years from now. Look at his resume.
Don't get tied up in Buzz's bit. It's another form of 'coachspeak', and there's nothing wrong with that.
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Chicaloop knows all of that, but he is about little more than gotchas and being able to say, "I told you so." The DJ Newbill thread he started on the other board presents plenty of evidence of that.
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His 15th has been rough, with injuries and a very young team, but here are the numbers from Barnes' first 14 seasons at Texas: 14 NCAAs, including 2 Sweet 16s, 2 Elite 8s, one Final Four.
Oh, and judging from last night, it's obvious this team has quit on him.
Clearly, the man should be fired.
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Good Lord. Can everyone just step back and TRY to get some perspective. Take off your Texas and MU blinders for a second. Let's say a similar example is going on at another pair of schools and honestly look at what will probably happen.
North Carolina is not good this year. Forget the recruits they already have and are coming in. They are having a bad year. Meanwhile, over at Butler, they are playing tough as usual. I think Roy Williams may need to look out!!
Come on. (and no, I'm not saying Barnes is Williams...just trying to make an example here).
Everyone step off the ledge. Does it sound at all feasible to you that Barnes is going to be fired after so much success there? Why would Texas do that? That makes no sense.
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It's interesting, taking a look around, it doesn't seem like there are many jobs likely to change hands this year.
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Good Lord. Can everyone just step back and TRY to get some perspective. Take off your Texas and MU blinders for a second. Let's say a similar example is going on at another pair of schools and honestly look at what will probably happen.
North Carolina is not good this year. Forget the recruits they already have and are coming in. They are having a bad year. Meanwhile, over at Butler, they are playing tough as usual. I think Roy Williams may need to look out!!
Come on. (and no, I'm not saying Barnes is Williams...just trying to make an example here).
Everyone step off the ledge. Does it sound at all feasible to you that Barnes is going to be fired after so much success there? Why would Texas do that? That makes no sense.
Roy is a very good example. Though you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. You are right that Roy is not Barnes; however, Buzz may very well be Roy. Perhaps your example should have looked at the similarities leading up to Roy leaving Kansas.
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Good Lord. Can everyone just step back and TRY to get some perspective. Take off your Texas and MU blinders for a second. Let's say a similar example is going on at another pair of schools and honestly look at what will probably happen.
North Carolina is not good this year. Forget the recruits they already have and are coming in. They are having a bad year. Meanwhile, over at Butler, they are playing tough as usual. I think Roy Williams may need to look out!!
Come on. (and no, I'm not saying Barnes is Williams...just trying to make an example here).
Everyone step off the ledge. Does it sound at all feasible to you that Barnes is going to be fired after so much success there? Why would Texas do that? That makes no sense.
+1
and don't forget that two years ago UNC went to the NIT ... send Roy packing
Same at Kentucky ... Calipari has the entire first round of the draft on his team and they are still on the bubble. Fire him too. Why is Howland still getting a paycheck at UCLA?
So forget Texas, Buzz to UNC and Buzz to Kentucky, Buzz to UCLA
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If I were Texas I'd fire Barnes if I knew I could get Buzz in a heartbeat. I don't think that will happen in real life, but Barnes has underachieved that program's potential and he has been given more than enough time to succeed. If Buzz goes there and stays long enough he will bring them multiple national championships. Of course, if he stays here and adds a guy like Diamond Stone to Steve Taylor and the 2013 class, he will win a NC sooner here. Which will make it even easier to recruit, giving him no reason to ever leave. So he should definitely stay!
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Chicaloop knows all of that, but he is about little more than gotchas and being able to say, "I told you so." The DJ Newbill thread he started on the other board presents plenty of evidence of that.
No, it was showing the hypocrisy that is on this board...#4 Michigan craps the bed to a winless conference team vs IU losing to a team that has many good wins already this season. I'm sorry you don't see the difference, then again you think ripping on a coach's wife is ok and not classless or calling someone a poster that they aren't. I can't help you.
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If Buzz goes there and stays long enough he will bring them multiple national championships.
C'mon. Really?
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I don't think that will happen in real life, but Barnes has underachieved that program's potential...
How exactly has he done that? Its only a slight exaggeration to say that he has had as much success in 14 years, as the program has had in the previous 80 years combined.
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C'mon. Really?
Yeah, go figure. Glad you said it. If that is the case, and it's obvious to him (JaJa), it should be obvious also to Deloss Dodds and they should hire him today. Considering the current guy hasn't won any and Buzz will win multiples apparently just by showing up. ::)
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How exactly has he done that? Its only a slight exaggeration to say that he has had as much success in 14 years, as the program has had in the previous 80 years combined.
Their massive atheltics budget & fertile recruiting grounds. To me that's about as appealing a job as there is. It's kind of like Florida, which was basically nothing basketball-wise before Donovan. Hoops was an afterthought and is still 2nd priority. So if you don't win no one is breathing down your throat but the potential under the right coach is through the roof.
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Their massive atheltics budget & fertile recruiting grounds. To me that's about as appealing a job as there is. It's kind of like Florida, which was basically nothing basketball-wise before Donovan. Hoops was an afterthought and is still 2nd priority. So if you don't win no one is breathing down your throat but the potential under the right coach is through the roof.
MU has the 2nd highest basketball budget in the country...Chicago right down the road...so should we be winning more than we are?
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C'mon. Really?
I said if he stays long enough. I'm talking program lifer, like K or Izzo. For the record, I think he'll do the same here if he stays long enough, as I expounded upon.
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I said if he stays long enough. I'm talking program lifer, like K or Izzo. For the record, I think he'll do the same here if he stays long enough, as I expounded upon.
Just to be clear, what you are saying/predicting, is that Buzz Williams is a top 15 coach all time.
Here is the list of multiple winners.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Final_Four_appearances_by_coach#NCAA_Division_I_Championships_by_coach (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Final_Four_appearances_by_coach#NCAA_Division_I_Championships_by_coach)
A lot of GREAT coaches are NOT on this list.
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If I were Texas I'd fire Barnes if I knew I could get Buzz in a heartbeat. I don't think that will happen in real life, but Barnes has underachieved that program's potential and he has been given more than enough time to succeed. If Buzz goes there and stays long enough he will bring them multiple national championships. Of course, if he stays here and adds a guy like Diamond Stone to Steve Taylor and the 2013 class, he will win a NC sooner here. Which will make it even easier to recruit, giving him no reason to ever leave. So he should definitely stay!
Yes, he will win a championship much quicker there because Texas has shown to be a national powerhouse the last 30 years in college hoops and as everyone knows, if you are successful in football, you are just as successful in basketball because of your brand and name recognition.
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Seriously, eff this entire thread in the face. I'm so sick of seeing this crape.
(and it's a blog, I should get over it...but still...this is a joke. Every effing March. It's our own version of groundhog day. MU Scoopers put on their MSU Sparty-like "little brother"/"woe is me"/fatalist routine.)
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I love Buzz but not going predict NC for him at MU or someplace else if he happens to leave. Texas is not a no brainer for NC regardless of who is the coach. Louisville has deeper history of success and Pitino is still chasing his first there. I do not hold Buzz in same class ( I know Pitino has no class) as Pitino as this stage of his career.
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MU has the 2nd highest basketball budget in the country...Chicago right down the road...so should we be winning more than we are?
C'mon dude. You know ther's a difference between recruiting CPL at MU (competing with IU, MSU, Illinois, then Duke, UNC, etc. when it's a real blue chipper like Parker or Okafor) vs. recruiting at a flagship school like UT within a state as parochial and prideful as Texas, not to mention a much higher volume of top talent than the city of Chicago alone. The state of Wisconsin is experiencing a recent deep talent boon starting in 2013, and Buzz has capitalized to the tune of DuWilson, Burton, and McKay, while picking off STaylor from Chicago in the process. Looney, Stone and Ellenson are top names that could take us from good to great. That is a perfect storm of elite level Wisconsin talent that isn't consistent. Texas churns out talent like this every year like clockwork. And as the head coach at UT, you start on even footing with those guys, unlike starting from behind at MU. If Buzz stays, I expect that will change (MU becoming more of a destination "it" school for Wisconsin & CPL), but it takes time to build up that kind of branding and relationships. Texas already has that, and Buzz already has deep Texas HS & JUCO connections.
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Nevermind the coach, there is a grand total of 14 schools that have won more than 1 championship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools)
Not exactly a who's who of football schools either. Florida is the only real exception. If your goal is to win a national championship, take a look at that list of all the winners, and tell me why any coach would want to go to a football school like Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. you are second banana the moment you walk in the door relative to exposure, interest, budget, etc.
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C'mon dude. You know ther's a difference between recruiting CPL at MU (competing with IU, MSU, Illinois, then Duke, UNC, etc. when it's a real blue chipper like Parker or Okafor) vs. recruiting at a flagship school like UT within a state as parochial and prideful as Texas, not to mention a much higher volume of top talent than the city of Chicago alone. The state of Wisconsin is experiencing a recent deep talent boon starting in 2013, and Buzz has capitalized to the tune of DuWilson, Burton, and McKay, while picking off STaylor from Chicago in the process. Looney, Stone and Ellenson are top names that could take us from good to great. That is a perfect storm of elite level Wisconsin talent that isn't consistent. Texas churns out talent like this every year like clockwork. And as the head coach at UT, you start on even footing with those guys, unlike starting from behind at MU. If Buzz stays, I expect that will change (MU becoming more of a destination "it" school for Wisconsin & CPL), but it takes time to build up that kind of branding and relationships. Texas already has that, and Buzz already has deep Texas HS & JUCO connections.
You realize that Texas is really big, too, right? That it doesn't just have two solid, D-1 programs in it, right? That there are a ton of schools and ALL of them recruit the top-flight Texas talent, not to mention all the other schools frou OUTSIDE Texas that recurit there, right? Why does UT get those guys automatically? Because of Buzz friggin' Williams? And why do you shape the situation in Wisconsin to fit your argument ("WI is experiencing a recent deep talent boon")? As if MU's success is dependent on getting top WI talent? It certainly helps, but for the majority of the last decade, the top player on the team came from outside WI.
C'mon. Wisconsin does not have deep h.s. talent, but, arguably every year they produce 1-2 top HS prospects. The only difference recently is that the top guys are choosing MU more frequently than they did in the past.
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Nevermind the coach, there is a grand total of 14 schools that have won more than 1 championship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools)
Not exactly a who's who of football schools either. Florida is the only real exception. If your goal is to win a national championship, take a look at that list of all the winners, and tell me why any coach would want to go to a football school like Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. you are second banana the moment you walk in the door relative to exposure, interest, budget, etc.
Well, 16 schools once Buzz wins 1 at MU (putting MU at 2) and then when Buzz wins multiple at UT.
::)
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Okay fine, you guys disagree with my opinion, and I disagree with yours.
Texas is a top 10 job IMO, and Barnes has slightly underachieved. MU is currently top 20 with the potential to move up if Buzz stays and continues to build our brand. I think he already has us on the verge of big things (a guy like Stone would push the future roster over the edge), so the incentive to leave currently is minimal.
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Well, 16 schools once Buzz wins 1 at MU (putting MU at 2) and then when Buzz wins multiple at UT.
::)
;D
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Okay fine, you guys disagree with my opinion, and I disagree with yours.
Texas is a top 10 job IMO, and Barnes has slightly underachieved. MU is currently top 20 with the potential to move up if Buzz stays and continues to build our brand. I think he already has us on the verge of big things (a guy like Stone would push the future roster over the edge), so the incentive to leave currently is minimal.
How many national titles would Brad Stevens win at UT?
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Kabongo is pretty good, eh?
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Well, 16 schools once Buzz wins 1 at MU (putting MU at 2) and then when Buzz wins multiple at UT.
::)
Right, because I said he would win one at MU then go on to win 2 at UT. Why would he ever leave MU if he could win a NC here?
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Nevermind the coach, there is a grand total of 14 schools that have won more than 1 championship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Championship#Championships.2C_by_schools)
Not exactly a who's who of football schools either. Florida is the only real exception. If your goal is to win a national championship, take a look at that list of all the winners, and tell me why any coach would want to go to a football school like Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, etc. you are second banana the moment you walk in the door relative to exposure, interest, budget, etc.
I said Texas is in the same vein as Florida. A football school with basketball as an afterthought. Donovan has brought them 2 national championships, a NC runner-up, an E8 last year, and a final 4 favorite this year. In the same time span at UT, I think Buzz would come very close to bringing the same results. Luckily, I think he'll stay at MU for 10 more years and do the same ;D
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I said Texas is in the same vein as Florida. A football school with basketball as an afterthought. Donovan has brought them 2 national championships, a NC runner-up, an E8 last year, and a final 4 favorite this year. In the same time span at UT, I think Buzz would come very close to bringing the same results. Luckily, I think he'll stay at MU for 10 more years and do the same ;D
At the time Florida hired Donavon, would that school have been viewed as a "top 10" program? I highly, highly doubt it. Lon Kruger took them to a final four but they were still a football school. Would Florida been able to recruit one of the top young coaches in the game just because it's Florida? Donovan was looked at as a good coach at Marshall but wasn't even close to the level Buzz has proven to be. Florida then equals Texas now.
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If Buzz goes there and stays long enough he will bring them multiple national championships.
You do realize how tough it is to win even one championship, let alone multiple, right?
Roy Williams won none at Kansas. Lute Olson won one at Arizona. Al won one at Marquette. Louie won none at St. John's. Thompson won one at Georgetown. Jud Heathcote won one at Michigan State. Tom Izzo has won one at Michigan State. Tark won one at UNLV. Pitino hasn't won any at Louisville. Bo hasn't won any for Bucky.
Pretty good coaches who built pretty good programs during long tenures.
And yet Buzz just shows up at Texas and is guaranteed multiple titles?
You're right ... with such a money-back, iron-clad guarantee, they should fire Barnes now and give Buzz $10 million per year.
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If Texas is stupid enough to fire Barnes because of this one bad year, with all of the talented underclassmen on the team, then they don't deserve Buzz.
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I'm still intrigued by the suggestion that Texas is a Top 10 job. Which of these are you taking off the list (in no particular order)
Kentucky
Duke
UNC
Indiana
UCLA
Kansas
Syracuse
Georgetown
Michigan State
Louisville
Arizona
UConn
Ohio State
That's just off the top of my head. Even if you want to increase your number to 15, they are there primarily because of the guy you are suggesting should be fired.
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Well, Tom Crean was fired after losing to Stanford in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
Was a really ballsy move, huh?
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Was a really ballsy move, huh?
Worked out well for everyone it seems.
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Was a really ballsy move, huh?
Actually, not ballsy at all.
When you have a coach that is going to win multiple national titles waiting on the bench, it's easy.
This is why UT is going to fire Barnes and back up the Brinks truck for Buzz.
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I'm still intrigued by the suggestion that Texas is a Top 10 job. Which of these are you taking off the list (in no particular order)
Kentucky
Duke
UNC
Indiana
UCLA
Kansas
Syracuse
Georgetown
Michigan State
Louisville
Arizona
UConn
Ohio State
That's just off the top of my head. Even if you want to increase your number to 15, they are there primarily because of the guy you are suggesting should be fired.
Texas is up there. No reason they aren't equal to Ohio St just because of 1 bad year (I mean, when did OSU because an auto-top basketball job?). Honestly, after the first 5 the next 10-20 are all really close and similar and it just depends on what the coach is looking for.
UT fans have short memories, but their anger and impatience is being directed heavily at Barnes b/c Mack Brown is pissing them all off even more.
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Am I the only one who thinks it unlikely the Texas AD who's stood by and watched three subpar seasons out of the football program without firing Mack Brown is going to pull the plug on Rick Barnes - and eat the final four years on his contract - after one bad season full of mitigating circumstances?
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Texas over Syracuse and UConn in a 2nd. And maybe several others. Dallas / Metroplex has become a great recruiting zone.
Still, Barnes is safe.
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Am I the only one who thinks it unlikely the Texas AD who's stood by and watched three subpar seasons out of the football program without firing Mack Brown is going to pull the plug on Rick Barnes - and eat the final four years on his contract - after one bad season full of mitigating circumstances?
No, Jajuannaman is the only one who thinks he will (or should).
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Pakuni
Only way I see them canning Barnes and eating four years is if they that one guy they really want. They have the money to do whatever they want and doubt if they roll dice without having guy in place before dumping Barnes. Would have to think odds are Barnes stays at Texas.
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Pakuni
Only way I see them canning Barnes and eating four years is if they that one guy they really want. They have the money to do whatever they want and doubt if they roll dice without having guy in place before dumping Barnes. Would have to think odds are Barnes stays at Texas.
Do you think that guy is buzz? I am not sure the average UT BB fan would even know who buzz is. Knowing how Texans think, they would want someone like Phil Jackson or coach k.
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Texas over Syracuse and UConn in a 2nd. And maybe several others. Dallas / Metroplex has become a great recruiting zone.
Im sure it has. doesn't make it bettar than, oh I don't know, New York City, and the rest of the east coast.
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I'm still intrigued by the suggestion that Texas is a Top 10 job. Which of these are you taking off the list (in no particular order)
Kentucky
Duke
UNC
Indiana
UCLA
Kansas
Syracuse
Georgetown
Michigan State
Louisville
Arizona
UConn
Ohio State
That's just off the top of my head. Even if you want to increase your number to 15, they are there primarily because of the guy you are suggesting should be fired.
1.) I didn't say he should be flat out fired. I said if I were Texas and was guaranteed I could make the trade Barnes for Buzz I would fire him in a hearbeat. I also don't think he will be fired. At all.
2.) Yes, Barnes has gotten them to a certain level. But I don't think he'll ever get them to the promised land. He has a 15 year track record to go on. They seem to be fine with that, but I think throwing Buzz in there would be fuel to the fire Barnes lit.
3.) Point #2 "they seem to be fine with that" is why I think to me it's a top 10 job (after the blue bloods of course). Tons of resources at a massive flagship state school, but no pressure due to football. Then, there's also no pressure to succeed a legend, like there would be at a place like MSU or Duke, or to win big immediately like UK or UCLA (Tubby, Billy Clyde, Lavin). You could build the program in your own name at your own pace, like Donovan at UF. There's no chasing ghosts, and there's no angry alumni or admin breathing down your neck. If and when a guy like Buzz breaks through at a place like that, he's a legend, worshipped by fans. Recruiting, especially in-state, becomes even easier. Virtuous circle yadda yadda.
This is all my opinion and in no way do I think that scenario would play out. I just know what I would do if I were AD and that hypothetical situation presented itself. That's it. I think Buzz is staying at MU and this is all just a thought experimetn. I'll let everyone else have the last word and tell me how stupid I am.
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Actually, not ballsy at all.
When you have a coach that is going to win multiple national titles waiting on the bench, it's easy.
This is why UT is going to fire Barnes and back up the Brinks truck for Buzz.
Wow. Never once did I say UT would do actually do that. I said it's what I would do, but I'm on this message board, not in an AD's chair.
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Hairy
I would have no idea who that one guy would be. Just think to cut Barnes and pay him off only probably gets done if they have one guy in line. The whole landscape of sports is so whacked out it really is tough to figure anything out in advance.
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Hairy
I would have no idea who that one guy would be. Just think to cut Barnes and pay him off only probably gets done if they have one guy in line. The whole landscape of sports is so whacked out it really is tough to figure anything out in advance.
Exactly. Who knows what they think. People here like to associate Buzz for the Texas job because of paranoia of losing buzz and the Texas connection. The reality is, we do not know what UT people are thinking in terms of firing Barnes in the first place and then the head coach they have in mind.
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I just skipped to the last page of the thread. Have we started talking about fishing yet?
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I just skipped to the last page of the thread. Have we started talking about fishing yet?
Not yet. Just getting to the part where someone named UT17 is about to tell us Buzz to Texas is already a done deal.
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Not yet. Just getting to the part where someone named UT17 is about to tell us Buzz to Texas is already a done deal.
Sounds good. Just let me know if/when you want me to derail the thread.
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Buzz will stay as long as we will have him...his words.
He is still not our Savior (get us back to promise land, Champion!!) until his recruiting improves.
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Worked out well for everyone it seems.
That's why I don't understand all this continuing Crean hate. I would much rather have Buzz...and I'm sure Indiana is happy with their current situation.
We all win. Now move on already.
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Wow. Never once did I say UT would do actually do that. I said it's what I would do, but I'm on this message board, not in an AD's chair.
I'm was being sarcastic... and I've made my point, so it's time for me to drop it.
I honestly hope Buzz ends up being as successful as you think he will. That would be incredible.
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I figure I'm one of only a few people on this board that actually had to work for him so I can vouch. He did a lot of good, but tough guy to work for. He left MU, but not high and dry. He left for a better school, better basketball program, more stable conference and one of the bluebloods. Can't blame him.
No one dislikes him for why he left. They dislike him for how he left.
Also, while I didn't offically work in the athletic department like you, I was around the AL for both Crean and Buzz. Seeing how things changed made me dislike Crean even more.
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well, first let me say I am anything but a Crean apologist. I felt he was milking an exhausted cow when he continued to amp up his contract in '03..., even writing his own and telling the AD to get it done (so it seems). I was most turned off by the media guide / Tom Crean color advertisement. Suffice it to say I was happy to see him go, but hated the way he did it. Mostly, I dislike his smarmy attitude. BUT, I have learned that there is some sentiment both in the administration and the BOT that Crean had a better understanding of what it meant to be a Marquette student-athelete than Buzz does.
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well, first let me say I am anything but a Crean apologist. I felt he was milking an exhausted cow when he continued to amp up his contract in '03..., even writing his own and telling the AD to get it done (so it seems). I was most turned off by the media guide / Tom Crean color advertisement. Suffice it to say I was happy to see him go, but hated the way he did it. Mostly, I dislike his smarmy attitude. BUT, I have learned that there is some sentiment both in the administration and the BOT that Crean had a better understanding of what it meant to be a Marquette student-athelete than Buzz does.
uhhhhhh..... care to explain?
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Sounds good. Just let me know if/when you want me to derail the thread.
I'll express lane that:
CREAN SUCKS ASS
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No one dislikes him for why he left. They dislike him for how he left.
I dislike him because he's a pud whack.
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Crean had a better understanding of what it meant to be a Marquette student-athelete than Buzz does.
Does that include directing student athletes to blatantly lie about getting hit in face by an elbow thrown by an opponent? As recent video evidence proves, Coach Crean orders his players to lie and cheat. The man is beneath our contempt.
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I can't imagine what this board would be if, God forbid, Buzz does leave.......Crean and Buzz 24/7
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No, it was showing the hypocrisy that is on this board...#4 Michigan craps the bed to a winless conference team vs IU losing to a team that has many good wins already this season. I'm sorry you don't see the difference, then again you think ripping on a coach's wife is ok and not classless or calling someone a poster that they aren't. I can't help you.
I don't recall asking for your help, so I'm good.
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Does that include directing student athletes to blatantly lie about getting hit in face by an elbow thrown by an opponent? As recent video evidence proves, Coach Crean orders his players to lie and cheat. The man is beneath our contempt.
In what world does trying to draw a foul - a common strategy used by every coach - qualify as lying and cheating? I mean, you don't think MU coaches instruct players on how to sell a charge?
CDS = Crean Derangement Syndrome.
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In what world does trying to draw a foul - a common strategy used by every coach - qualify as lying and cheating? I mean, you don't think MU coaches instruct players on how to sell a charge?
CDS = Crean Derangement Syndrome.
There is a difference between standing in the lane and trying to draw a charge. That is not what happened at Minnesota. Crean directed his players that the first to the ball would man up while Sheehey came from behind and fake getting elbowed. A flop is one thing but holding your face while falling down then writhing in pain on the floor? It continued as Sheehey stood up and walked to the sideline holding his face as if Tyson has cold cocked him. Sheehey couldn't even keep a straight face. meanwhile Tanned Tommy was running around, screaming about his man was injured demanding a flagrant 2. That guy should be disciplined. He is a disgrace to mentors and leaders everywhere.
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There is a difference between standing in the lane and trying to draw a charge. That is not what happened at Minnesota. Crean directed his players that the first to the ball would man up while Sheehey came from behind and fake getting elbowed.
No, that's not what Crean said. You're making stuff up now.
http://deadspin.com/5987330/did-tom-crean-tell-his-indiana-players-to-flop-late-in-last-nights-loss-to-minnesota-heres-what-he-said-according-to-a-lip-reader?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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Do you think that guy is buzz? I am not sure the average UT BB fan would even know who buzz is. Knowing how Texans think, they would want someone like Phil Jackson or coach k.
+1
If UT thinks they are the second coming of the 1970s UCLA, why would they think Buzz is the missing piece?
And regarding UT being a top job, yes Texas is fertile ground and the top FOOTBALL program. But the state also has A&M, Houston, Baylor, Larry Brown at SMU, Texas Tech ... and Oklahoma and OK State are nearby. It has tons of competition too.
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No, that's not what Crean said. You're making stuff up now.
http://deadspin.com/5987330/did-tom-crean-tell-his-indiana-players-to-flop-late-in-last-nights-loss-to-minnesota-heres-what-he-said-according-to-a-lip-reader?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Am I?? In Tanned Tommy's own words>
http://www.lostlettermen.com/crean-instructed-ius-sheehey-to-flop/
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Please delete this before it turns into a crap storm. It would be for the good of humanity, and this board.
IF ONLY. 5 pages of this depressive case "Buzz is
leaving, WOE IS ME/US" garbage.
(http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-26045-15077824453b05.gif#burn%20it%20with%20fire%20gif%20256x192)
And if we're going to warn about trolling, I think the
original post did a WAY better job than Chicos.
Sooooooo. When's fishing start?
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/seasons/index.html
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IF ONLY. 5 pages of this depressive case "Buzz is
leaving, WOE IS ME/US" garbage.
(http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-26045-15077824453b05.gif#burn%20it%20with%20fire%20gif%20256x192)
And if we're going to warn about trolling, I think the
original post did a WAY better job than Chicos.
Sooooooo. When's fishing start?
http://dnr.wi.gov/topic/fishing/seasons/index.html
Only on Scoop would a thread about Buzz going to texas turn into a Crean sucks, he's a liar and a cheater thread....
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There is a difference between standing in the lane and trying to draw a charge. That is not what happened at Minnesota. Crean directed his players that the first to the ball would man up while Sheehey came from behind and fake getting elbowed. A flop is one thing but holding your face while falling down then writhing in pain on the floor? It continued as Sheehey stood up and walked to the sideline holding his face as if Tyson has cold cocked him. Sheehey couldn't even keep a straight face. meanwhile Tanned Tommy was running around, screaming about his man was injured demanding a flagrant 2. That guy should be disciplined. He is a disgrace to mentors and leaders everywhere.
It is clear that Sheehey flopped. It is clear that Sheehey was trying to hit Hollins' elbow with his face. It is clear that Crean was making elbow gestures in the huddle.
However, it is not a foregone conclusion that Crean drew up or instructed Sheehey's actions.
Although, it is abundantly clear that Sheehey is not a drama major. If he is, he should be deemed academically ineligible immediately.
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It is clear that Sheehey flopped. It is clear that Sheehey was trying to hit Hollins' elbow with his face. It is clear that Crean was making elbow gestures in the huddle.
However, it is not a foregone conclusion that Crean drew up or instructed Sheehey's actions.
Although, it is abundantly clear that Sheehey is not a drama major. If he is, he should be deemed academically ineligible immediately.
Listen to the video I linked. It is the second of the two. Crean lays it out pretty clearly.
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Does that include directing student athletes to blatantly lie about getting hit in face by an elbow thrown by an opponent? As recent video evidence proves, Coach Crean orders his players to lie and cheat. The man is beneath our contempt.
Really? Stop. You have no idea what was said in that huddle and even the "professional lip reader" said so as well...so stop. Seriously, stop. It was a game, they lost, they tried to win, tried to gain an advantage....are you telling me that our players blatantly lie when the ball goes out of bounds and they all point our way when they know it isn't?
I listened to your video...the first one has both ESPN announcers saying what a great move it was and absolutely they should try to get a foul called. The second one says nothing of the kind...you make it sound like Crean is talking and it's the ESPN announcers.
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I can't imagine what this board would be if, God forbid, Buzz does leave.......Crean and Buzz 24/7
LOL, it is so true.
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Really? Stop. You have no idea what was said in that huddle and even the "professional lip reader" said so as well...so stop. Seriously, stop. It was a game, they lost, they tried to win, tried to gain an advantage....are you telling me that our players blatantly lie when the ball goes out of bounds and they all point our way when they know it isn't?
I listened to your video...the first one has both ESPN announcers saying what a great move it was and absolutely they should try to get a foul called. The second one says nothing of the kind...you make it sound like Crean is talking and it's the ESPN announcers.
Really? Get the sh1t out of your ears. In the second video that is Tanned Tommy speaking. Look at his gestures and listen to what he is saying. The title of the vid is "Crean saying watch for the elbows." You might take a tour through the Blogosphere and read what the entire college basketball world is saying about Tanned Tommy. If they didn't despise him before they got a dose now.
Here is the link. Again, it's the second vid titled, "Crean saying watch for the elbows." I listened with my Bose Noise Cancelling headphones. You can hear it a lot better that way.
http://www.lostlettermen.com/crean-instructed-ius-sheehey-to-flop/
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Really? Get the sh1t out of your ears. In the second video that is Tanned Tommy speaking. Look at his gestures and listen to what he is saying. The title of the vid is "Crean saying watch for the elbows." You might take a tour through the Blogosphere and read what the entire college basketball world is saying about Tanned Tommy. If they didn't despise him before they got a dose now.
Here is the link. Again, it's the second vid titled, "Crean saying watch for the elbows." I listened with my Bose Noise Cancelling headphones. You can hear it a lot better that way.
http://www.lostlettermen.com/crean-instructed-ius-sheehey-to-flop/
You are absolutely dreaming. Number one, there is no microphone in the huddle. Period. That is Dan Dakich talking at the end that you are hearing. You can't hear anything that Coach Crean is saying. Nothing. There is no microphone to pick up anything. You are reaching, big time here.
If what you say is true, then why would Deadspin have to "hire" a lipreader? DUh
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Little Murs
If Buzz would leave it would be different IMO. The TC haters will be there but do not think there would be Buzz haters. If he left it would be a business/family decision and I think most would accept it. I have finally come the realization that MU really is in grey area and keeping a star coach is very difficult, especially with watered down new conference. a lot has changed in NCAA since Buzz got here and it will continue to change moving forward.
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You are absolutely dreaming. Number one, there is no microphone in the huddle. Period. That is Dan Dakich talking at the end that you are hearing. You can't hear anything that Coach Crean is saying. Nothing. There is no microphone to pick up anything. You are reaching, big time here.
If what you say is true, then why would Deadspin have to "hire" a lipreader? DUh
Agreed. I only hear Dakich talking.
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http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=110&f=2440&t=11235618
The Texas scout board isn't that active. This thread has a tangential discussion of who they would like to replace Barnes. Buzz not on the list. FWIW, the posters who took the time said Brad or Shaka.
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Worst thread ever.
(http://i.imgur.com/aJPd6rO.gif)
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Worst thread ever.
(http://i.imgur.com/aJPd6rO.gif)
That is saying a hell of alot.
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Anyone know if Crean does any fishing?
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Agreed. I only hear Dakich talking.
I was just effing with Chicos.
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Buzz would kill it in Texas. The State in 2012 and 2013 had 8 ***** and 13 ****. (Rivals)Texas has more home grown fans then any other school in the state. Buzz would land 3-4 of the above every year.
I would not blame Larry or Buzz going home to take the Texas Job, and about 10 other Jobs would fall in that category. If he leaves for a non top 10 type spot then I would have a problem with Larry and the Admin.
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Little Murs
If Buzz would leave it would be different IMO. The TC haters will be there but do not think there would be Buzz haters. If he left it would be a business/family decision and I think most would accept it. I have finally come the realization that MU really is in grey area and keeping a star coach is very difficult, especially with watered down new conference. a lot has changed in NCAA since Buzz got here and it will continue to change moving forward.
Okay, not Buzz, but Larry Williams would be in for it.
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LittleMurs
I would have been pissed off at the world a year ago and now have different view. If someone had told me BE would no longer be the BE a year+ ago I never would have believed it. The breakup of BE proved to me nothing is forever. For me if Buzz leaves it is because the profession and sport is always changing.
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I was just effing with Chicos.
I don't think you were. I think you heard what you want to hear. ;)
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Any chance this thread breaks the SMU thread record of the longest ever (130 pages, correct)? It is just as useless and all that is missing the "texas18" posting here.
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I don't think you were. I think you heard what you want to hear. ;)
we all hear what we want to hear. it's called being human. the truly transcendent are the ones capable of greatness for they have that rare clarity few ever achieve.
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Retweet from Jason King of ESPN:
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds says Rick Barnes will return, praises effort with young team. "Absolutely. He's done a great job coaching them."
https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN (https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN)
Hopefully we all can put this rumor to bed for another season.
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Retweet from Jason King of ESPN:
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds says Rick Barnes will return, praises effort with young team. "Absolutely. He's done a great job coaching them."
https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN (https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN)
Hopefully we all can put this rumor to bed for another season.
So, yeah, thanks for resurrecting a thread that had been dead for two weeks. I predict at least three more pages of posts.
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It's on the same topic. It's fine if it's on this thread.
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Retweet from Jason King of ESPN:
Texas AD DeLoss Dodds says Rick Barnes will return, praises effort with young team. "Absolutely. He's done a great job coaching them."
https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN (https://twitter.com/JasonKingESPN)
Hopefully we all can put this rumor to bed for another season.
How do we know that was really Jason King? Remember, someone here set up a Tom Crean Twitter account that forced Tommy to react!
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Normally, when the AD (or President) gives you their full support that means you are on the out the door. Just saying. I don't believe Buzz is going anywhere.
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Normally, when the AD (or President) gives you their full support that means you are on the out the door. Just saying. I don't believe Buzz is going anywhere.
Exactly what I was thinking. Just like Corporate America.
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Normally, when the AD (or President) gives you their full support that means you are on the out the door. Just saying. I don't believe Buzz is going anywhere.
I think that happens more with pro sports. In college, it's important to send a message to potential recruits that the coach is going to be around. I believe Dodds 100% on this and its consistent with everything he has said the last 6 months.
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Rick Barnes was never going anywhere. He's not even on the hot seat.
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Rick Barnes was never going anywhere. He's not even on the hot seat.
All kidding aside this is the ground truth. Barnes will be there for a long time yet.
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Depends if he is a man of his word. Last year, Jered Weaver of the Angels took approximately $60 million LESS to stay where he was. He stayed and honored his word. Everyone is a bit different.
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb/23/sports/la-sp-0224-angels-20130224
This. The "word" has to be 2 way though and I agree money isn't everything. If Buzz feels that the University changed the non-monetary terms of the agreement under which he was hired, he may go. A lot of those things are unwritten and have to do with personality and communication styles. You can't expect a coach or player to keep his word if the University or Team hasn't kept their's. At the very least, this off season should be interesting because at least one or two schools will probably make a run at our coach.
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UCLA is the one to be worried about.
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UCLA is the one to be worried about.
UCLA won the regular season Pac-12. Howland isn't going anywhere.
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UCLA is the one to be worried about.
Huh? Buzz would be a horrible fit in Westwood.
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This. The "word" has to be 2 way though and I agree money isn't everything. If Buzz feels that the University changed the non-monetary terms of the agreement under which he was hired, he may go. A lot of those things are unwritten and have to do with personality and communication styles. You can't expect a coach or player to keep his word if the University or Team hasn't kept their's. At the very least, this every off season should be interesting because at least one or two schools will probably make a run at our coach.
FIFY
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I think a quiet and productive off season will certainly quell a lot of our fears.
MU hasn't been in the paper for anything weird, the kids are going to class, and they are winning.
Keep that up, and Buzz will get everything he wants/needs... even if him and Larry aren't best friends (allegedly).
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Note to self:
Liquidate entire stock portfolio, go long with half on aluminum foil futures and short all manufacturers of headwear with remaining half.
Use profits to a) displace Dick Strong at reseating this summer, b) buy bronze futures (2022 delivery) sufficient in quantity to erect Buzz Williams statue one year after his retirement, c) build on-campus basketball arena upon Bucks' demise that makes The Ralph look like Rosemont.
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(http://rortybomb.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/brb_dying.gif?w=640)
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UCLA won the regular season Pac-12. Howland isn't going anywhere.
Lots of chatter out here that he may still go. Who knows, but that's the buzz...no pun intended. Some big time transfers expected, including Parker.
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Huh? Buzz would be a horrible fit in Westwood.
They'd look to make a bigger splash than Buzz too.
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Well, then UCLA gets what they deserve. I guess the only way that they can survive is to win, and the only way they can win is to cheat.
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Lots of chatter out here that he may still go. Who knows, but that's the buzz...no pun intended. Some big time transfers expected, including Parker.
I want to see him at MU, not Kansas or IU!!! Get on it.
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Well, then UCLA gets what they deserve. I guess the only way that they can survive is to win, and the only way they can win is to cheat.
Comes down to style and what kids want to play. The perception (fair or not) is that Howland is defensive minded and doesn't allow the players to showcase their offensive talents. The irony is, I think they led the Pac 12 in scoring this year, but this is the perception of the last few years. You see players like Russel Westbrook, Kevin Love, etc, explode once they leave UCLA and it only draws more attention to that perception. The comments of those former players hasn't helped either.
This is UCLA, extremely high expectations. Attendance is way down the last few years, a brand new upgrade to Pauley Pavillion this year, AAU and high school coaches grumbling. We will see. Dan Guerrero, the AD, is a big backer of Ben's but Dan's job has been precarious the last few years as well. He may have struck gold with Jim Mora (though plenty of UCLA football coaches have had success first few years but fired after 5 or 6).
Nothing would surprise me with UCLA's decision. They could extrend him, could fire him, could choose to do nothing in which case other coaches will use that as negative recruiting that UCLA doesn't believe in Howland to extend him. It could be an interesting offseason.
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Comes down to style and what kids want to play. The perception (fair or not) is that Howland is defensive minded and doesn't allow the players to showcase their offensive talents. The irony is, I think they led the Pac 12 in scoring this year, but this is the perception of the last few years. You see players like Russel Westbrook, Kevin Love, etc, explode once they leave UCLA and it only draws more attention to that perception. The comments of those former players hasn't helped either.
Love averaged 17.5/10.6 in his only season at UCLA.
Westbrook, in his second season, averaged nearly 13 ppg on a team with a bunch of NBA players (including Love).
Anyone whose perception is that Howland held back their offense is an idiot.
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Love averaged 17.5/10.6 in his only season at UCLA.
Westbrook, in his second season, averaged nearly 13 ppg on a team with a bunch of NBA players (including Love).
Anyone whose perception is that Howland held back their offense is an idiot.
I'm just telling you the scuttlebutt on it....I agree with your conclusion.
The arguments I hear on radio or by fans mostly around players that transferred and excel elsewhere, or those that hit the NBA and blossom (Westbrook at 23 points per game as an example).
I don't agree with the perception, but that's what is out there. Jay Bilas has a nice piece on it last year I believe. We'll see what happens.
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Huh? Buzz would be a horrible fit in Westwood.
Why?
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Why?
Full throttle, unabashed Christianity isn't the greatest of fits in that neck of the woods.
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Full throttle, unabashed Christianity isn't the greatest of fits in that neck of the woods.
That's malleable. And a smart guy like Buzz knows when, and where, to turn on his personality.
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I'm just telling you the scuttlebutt on it....I agree with your conclusion.
The arguments I hear on radio or by fans mostly around players that transferred and excel elsewhere, or those that hit the NBA and blossom (Westbrook at 23 points per game as an example).
I don't agree with the perception, but that's what is out there. Jay Bilas has a nice piece on it last year I believe. We'll see what happens.
Here's the problem:
Fans are unnatural carnal knowledgeing morons.
It only matters what the AD and the top donors think. If they are smart enough to know Howland is good, then he's fine for a while.
If the top donors/boosters think Howland is bad, then eventually the AD might have to listen.
Sports radio perception doesn't matter, Chicos. You know that.
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Full throttle, unabashed Christianity isn't the greatest of fits in that neck of the woods.
To put it mildly. Heads would explode out here from a good number of residents.
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Here's the problem:
It only matters what the AD and the top donors think. If they are smart enough to know Howland is good, then he's fine for a while.
How good is Howland though? If they don't do anything siginificant this year it will be the 5th disappointing season in a row on top of a program that seems to be spiraling out of control.
If I'm a UCLA fan and knowing the caliber of coach you can attract, I think I'd be looking for a replacement as well.
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Here's the problem:
Fans are fracking morons.
It only matters what the AD and the top donors think. If they are smart enough to know Howland is good, then he's fine for a while.
If the top donors/boosters think Howland is bad, then eventually the AD might have to listen.
Sports radio perception doesn't matter, Chicos. You know that.
That's why I said I don't buy into the rumors necessarily, but there is some considerable frustration.
Prior to this season, UCLA had zero wins against the top 25 on the road since 2008. Only 3 total Top 25 wins since 2008. Think about that.
They spent 1 week in the AP top 25 since 2009 until this season.
10-10 against USC all-time for Howland...not good
In the last 64 years, only three losing seasons...Howland has two of them
Some big donors and alumni aren't happy. Bill Walton has made it his crusade to bash Howland at every turn. Mora has helped because the pressure was very much on Guerrero the last few years.
The attendance numbers don't lie, either. Though they set the single game record against Arizona two weeks ago, there has been considerable disappointment in attendance this year considering the reopening of Pauley Pavillion....their draw on the road has been pretty poor as well.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-02-08/bill-walton-ben-howland-ucla-larry-drew-shabazz-muhammad
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2012/2/22/2818095/basketball-attendance-last-4-seasons
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To put it mildly. Heads would explode out here from a good number of residents.
I am picturing Buzz, with a mouth of chaw, talking about Jesus Christ on KLAC.
Classic
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To put it mildly. Heads would explode out here from a good number of residents.
Disagree. The fans would love Buzz and his personality in Westwood. Especially considering the the bore that currently coaches the team.
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Comes down to style and what kids want to play. The perception (fair or not) is that Howland is defensive minded and doesn't allow the players to showcase their offensive talents. The irony is, I think they led the Pac 12 in scoring this year, but this is the perception of the last few years. You see players like Russel Westbrook, Kevin Love, etc, explode once they leave UCLA and it only draws more attention to that perception. The comments of those former players hasn't helped either.
This is UCLA, extremely high expectations. Attendance is way down the last few years, a brand new upgrade to Pauley Pavillion this year, AAU and high school coaches grumbling. We will see. Dan Guerrero, the AD, is a big backer of Ben's but Dan's job has been precarious the last few years as well. He may have struck gold with Jim Mora (though plenty of UCLA football coaches have had success first few years but fired after 5 or 6).
Nothing would surprise me with UCLA's decision. They could extrend him, could fire him, could choose to do nothing in which case other coaches will use that as negative recruiting that UCLA doesn't believe in Howland to extend him. It could be an interesting offseason.
When is attendance not down? I'm a bit of a UCLA fan and have watched their games on TV for years. From what I've seen, there are always plenty of good seats available...and there may not be a worse game day atmosphere. It's like a library inside Pauley.
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Disagree. The fans would love Buzz and his personality in Westwood. Especilly considering the the bore that currently coaches the team.
No way. All that Jesus talk would get very old, very fast. Plus, I think his aw shucks, country bumpkin act would wear thin.
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Buzz could pray the Rosary at center court of Pauley Pavilion and no one would care if he were winning.
Eccentricity is only an issue when you're losing.
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Buzz could pray the Rosary at center court of Pauley Pavilion and no one would care if he were winning.
Eccentricity is only an issue when you're losing.
Bingo.
I think Buzz is incredibly entertaining.
However, if MU was 0-18 in conference play, I probably wouldn't be tuning into the "Buzz Williams Show".
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Buzz could pray the Rosary at center court of Pauley Pavilion and no one would care if he were winning.
Eccentricity is only an issue when you're losing.
Come out west and you'll change your tune. I think Chicos will back me up on this. Winning or not, Buzz's act would quickly wear thin with the PC crowd. It's not just that you win...it's how you win.
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Disagree. The fans would love Buzz and his personality in Westwood. Especilly considering the the bore that currently coaches the team.
The fans would, but it's the other lunatics that run the state. The ones that would bellyache that he is a state funded coach at a state funded university and he should never utter any words that they deem to infringe upon their view of the world. This is a county that changed their seal because it had a small cross in it. Don't underestimate some of the steps people go through out here. I agree, if he wins the fans would love it, but there would be a chorus of people watching him like a hawk for ever mentioning the wrong words in a public place.
Old New
(http://www.laalmanac.com/images/seal_LACounty_old.gif) (http://www.laalmanac.com/images/seal_LACounty.gif)
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When is attendance not down? I'm a bit of a UCLA fan and have watched their games on TV for years. From what I've seen, there are always plenty of good seats available...and there may not be a worse game day atmosphere. It's like a library inside Pauley.
Yeah, it's not a good atmosphere, I agree.
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Disagree. The fans would love Buzz and his personality in Westwood. Especilly considering the the bore that currently coaches the team.
Buzz still wouldn't be on their Top 5. Stevens, Shaka, Jay Wright, Dixon, Drew, Marshall, Donovan are all ahead.
If Buzz does go, to either UT or UCLA, we should just hire Howland/Barnes.
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Buzz still wouldn't be on their Top 5. Stevens, Shaka, Jay Wright, Dixon, Drew, Marshall, Donovan are all ahead.
If Buzz does go, to either UT or UCLA, we should just hire Howland/Barnes.
How do you get a list like that?
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Come out west and you'll change your tune. I think Chicos will back me up on this. Winning or not, Buzz's act would quickly wear thin with the PC crowd. It's not just that you win...it's how you win.
I live in LA. Nobody will give a hoot if he wins.
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Know of any goo sushi joints in Westwood?
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I live in LA. /quote]
You poor bastard.
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Comes down to style and what kids want to play. The perception (fair or not) is that Howland is defensive minded and doesn't allow the players to showcase their offensive talents. The irony is, I think they led the Pac 12 in scoring this year, but this is the perception of the last few years. You see players like Russel Westbrook, Kevin Love, etc, explode once they leave UCLA and it only draws more attention to that perception. The comments of those former players hasn't helped either.
This is UCLA, extremely high expectations. Attendance is way down the last few years, a brand new upgrade to Pauley Pavillion this year, AAU and high school coaches grumbling. We will see. Dan Guerrero, the AD, is a big backer of Ben's but Dan's job has been precarious the last few years as well. He may have struck gold with Jim Mora (though plenty of UCLA football coaches have had success first few years but fired after 5 or 6).
Nothing would surprise me with UCLA's decision. They could extrend him, could fire him, could choose to do nothing in which case other coaches will use that as negative recruiting that UCLA doesn't believe in Howland to extend him. It could be an interesting offseason.
Which is why Buzz may not be a good fit either.
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UCLA almost screwed the pooch today. UCLA alums around here were going nuts. Down by 1 with about a minute to go, but they pulled it out against Arizona State.
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I live in LA. Nobody will give a hoot if he wins.
Ben is winning, some people are giving a hoot. It's all in how you define winning. Lane Kiffin is winning, but not enough...and every little thing he does is scrutinized to the nth degree. Mike Scioscia won last year, had a better record than the Detroit Tigers, yet some in the press calling for his head.
It's all about how much winning and if you don't, this kind of stuff just gives certain people ammunition to call for a head.
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I live in LA. /quote]
You poor bastard.
Well, this poor bastard gets to see the ocean every day so I guess I will just have to suffer through it.
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Well, this poor bastard gets to see the ocean every day so I guess I will just have to suffer through it.
So does this poor bastard. Plus mountains.
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So does this poor bastard. Plus mountains.
... shouldn't you be busy implementing that fix for the Dreamliner?
And can't we just get this topic back on track? Buzz isn't going anywhere. Lock this thread.
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... shouldn't you be busy implementing that fix for the Dreamliner?
And can't we just get this topic back on track? Buzz isn't going anywhere. Lock this thread.
Not a Boeing guy.
Shouldn't you be busy getting that tire down off the rack?
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Not a Boeing guy.
Shouldn't you be busy getting that tire down off the rack?
Right after you start getting back to your haikus.
Oh, I miss your once-eloquent and biting bits of passion. Someday you will stop walking into parties like you were walking onto yachts and realize that endless soliloquies are not the way to go.
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... shouldn't you be busy implementing that fix for the Dreamliner?
And can't we just get this topic back on track? Buzz isn't going anywhere. Lock this thread.
Not a Boeing guy.
Shouldn't you be busy getting that tire down off the rack?
I'll save you both the suspense... You're both on a message board online. Literally everything in the world is more impressive than what you are doing now.
You are both losers. Steer this convo back to mubb
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I'll save you both the suspense... You're both on a message board online. Literally everything in the world is more impressive than what you are doing now.
You are both losers. Steer this convo back to mubb
In a bit of irony, I tried that in the reply you quoted.
Anyways, Buzz isn't going anywhere. Lock the thread.
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Cheers - Beat the Irish
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Cheers - Beat the Irish
Seconded - let's go MU!
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Not a Boeing guy.
Shouldn't you be busy getting that tire down off the rack?
keefe has a Midas Touch and his jizz is the secret ingredient to marshmellow Peeps.
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Howland took a big blow last night that might help him. Adams broke his foot on the final play of the game after scoring 24 points in their victory over Arizona. He's obviously out for the year, but that is really going to hurt UCLA moving forward.
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F*ckin took a big blow last night too. Unfortunately, his dog had the Cooley's and blew him a kiss while pissin' on their walk.
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Barnes is #1 in this list! :D (Lot of other familiar names, and yes I realize it is bleacher report.)
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1532508-ranking-the-10-most-overrated-coaches-in-college-basketball/page/12
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F*ckin took a big blow last night too. Unfortunately, his dog had the Cooley's and blew him a kiss while pissin' on their walk.
Randy: Can I get you something?
Second Jive Dude: 'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
Randy: I'm sorry, I don't understand.
First Jive Dude: Cutty say 'e can't HANG!
Mrs Cleaver: Oh stewardess! I speak jive.
Randy: Oh, good.
Mrs Cleaver: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him.
Randy: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine?
Mrs Cleaver: [to the Second Jive Dude] Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.
Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap!
Mrs Cleaver: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!
First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up!
Mrs Cleaver: Jive ass dude don't got no brains anyhow! Shiiiiit.
Does this board have any Mrs Cleavers to translate what this fool is sayin?
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Could be a major domino...many folks out here think he is gone. Article today.
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-plaschke-ucla-20130317,0,1232265.column
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Could be a major domino...many folks out here think he is gone. Article today.
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-plaschke-ucla-20130317,0,1232265.column
Just can't help but stir the pot, huh?
It's only a domino relevant to us in the unlikely event Buzz lands at UCLA. If UCLA lands another option - Stevens, Smart, Few, Dixon - Buzz won't be heading to any of their former jobs.
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Buzz Williams will not be going to UCLA. Let it go.
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Randy: Can I get you something?
Second Jive Dude: 'S'mofo butter layin' me to da' BONE! Jackin' me up... tight me!
Randy: I'm sorry, I don't understand.
First Jive Dude: Cutty say 'e can't HANG!
Mrs Cleaver: Oh stewardess! I speak jive.
Randy: Oh, good.
Mrs Cleaver: He said that he's in great pain and he wants to know if you can help him.
Randy: All right. Would you tell him to just relax and I'll be back as soon as I can with some medicine?
Mrs Cleaver: [to the Second Jive Dude] Jus' hang loose, blood. She gonna catch ya up on da' rebound on da' med side.
Second Jive Dude: What it is, big mama? My mama no raise no dummies. I dug her rap!
Mrs Cleaver: Cut me some slack, Jack! Chump don' want no help, chump don't GET da' help!
First Jive Dude: Say 'e can't hang, say seven up!
Mrs Cleaver: Jive ass dude don't got no brains anyhow! Shiiiiit.
Does this board have any Mrs Cleavers to translate what this fool is sayin?
Jive dude ain't got no brain anyhow.
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Just can't help but stir the pot, huh?
It's only a domino relevant to us in the unlikely event Buzz lands at UCLA. If UCLA lands another option - Stevens, Smart, Few, Dixon - Buzz won't be heading to any of their former jobs.
Sorry, not stirring the pot. The discussion has been about UCLA, Texas, etc. An article appeared in today's paper, I updated folks with it.
Sheesh.
I absolutely agree there is no way Buzz is going to UCLA. He isn't a big enough name and UCLA will go after a giant name. That doesn't mean that dominoes can't fall which is what the point of this thread was when it was started. Whether Buzz goes to another job, I don't know. Hope not. It certainly won't be UCLA. 99 out of 100 people out here don't have a clue who Buzz is and it wouldn't be a sexy enough hire for them.
Now, if it means Donovan comes to UCLA and Dixon to USC, well interesting things start to move around.
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Buzz Williams will not be going to UCLA. Let it go.
Never said he would. We agree.
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I would doubt that Buzz would end up at UCLA for many reasons. I do not agree that just because Buzz is not known by "99 out of 100" people is the reason. Of MU's last hires (I know MU is not UCLA) 99 out of 100 MU fans had never heard of the guy prior to be hired. UCLA is different gig and I get it, but being know to casual fan really means little. Prior to every hire since Dukiet I had somewhat inside info on hires and all were guys I had not heard about. That said, KO and TC were well known in coaching community but not to casual fans.
One question, I think Smart has done really good job but why all the love for him? He is young and done well over the last few years and that is great. Does he really have vastly more appeal than Buzz? Would have to think that Buzz's body or work is on par with Smart's. Stevens, Few and Dixon are ahead of Buzz on food chain. Maybe I am missing something with Smart.
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I would doubt that Buzz would end up at UCLA for many reasons. I do not agree that just because Buzz is not known by "99 out of 100" people is the reason. Of MU's last hires (I know MU is not UCLA) 99 out of 100 MU fans had never heard of the guy prior to be hired. UCLA is different gig and I get it, but being know to casual fan really means little. Prior to every hire since Dukiet I had somewhat inside info on hires and all were guys I had not heard about. That said, KO and TC were well known in coaching community but not to casual fans.
One question, I think Smart has done really good job but why all the love for him? He is young and done well over the last few years and that is great. Does he really have vastly more appeal than Buzz? Would have to think that Buzz's body or work is on par with Smart's. Stevens, Few and Dixon are ahead of Buzz on food chain. Maybe I am missing something with Smart.
Well, UCLA will go after a huge name which Buzz isn't. Attendance has suffered, they need to bring in more of those 99 folks and get them excited.
If Buzz leaves for somewhere, I would love to go after Smart. He's from Wisconsin...very smart...African American. I'd go for that hire. Stevens, of course...though I still think he gets some love that I sometimes laugh at. Back to back CBI appearances...can you imagine if that happened here, yet he's like the teflon man where that doesn't stick to him. Those two CBI appearances after back to back national title appearances. This year, I think they have been very inconsistent.
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Well, UCLA will go after a huge name which Buzz isn't. Attendance has suffered, they need to bring in more of those 99 folks and get them excited.
If Buzz leaves for somewhere, I would love to go after Smart. He's from Wisconsin...very smart...African American. I'd go for that hire. Stevens, of course...though I still think he gets some love that I sometimes laugh at. Back to back CBI appearances...can you imagine if that happened here, yet he's like the teflon man where that doesn't stick to him. Those two CBI appearances after back to back national title appearances. This year, I think they have been very inconsistent.
Actually, just one CBI appearance.
As for Smart, beyond what you already mentioned, he's young (only 35), charismatic, coaches an exciting style of ball and has a great pedigree (came up under Oliver Purnell and Billy Donovan).
He'd fit in very well in LA.
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Chico's
I agree across the board. If UCLA is looking for new coach they have to go big time. Stevens to me is a very good coach with a great feel good story due to back to back NC games. Cannot take that away from him regardless of rest of career. To me he is not a major hire at a school like UCLA. Dixon or Few probably could be sold as such at UCLA.
While I do not think Smart is off the charts name or coach I would definitely agree that MU needed to replace Buzz he should be high on any short list. His resume and being from Wisconsin both are positives.
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Well, UCLA will go after a huge name which Buzz isn't. Attendance has suffered, they need to bring in more of those 99 folks and get them excited.
If Buzz leaves for somewhere, I would love to go after Smart. He's from Wisconsin...very smart...African American. I'd go for that hire. Stevens, of course...though I still think he gets some love that I sometimes laugh at. Back to back CBI appearances...can you imagine if that happened here, yet he's like the teflon man where that doesn't stick to him. Those two CBI appearances after back to back national title appearances. This year, I think they have been very inconsistent.
awful comparison...1. i'll take 2 years in the CBI if it also means 2 years in the ncaa final. 2. mu should have higher standards than butler.
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awful comparison...1. i'll take 2 years in the CBI if it also means 2 years in the ncaa final. 2. mu should have higher standards than butler.
You obviously haven't been following poutrage here over the years when we had the audacity to go to the NIT with our best player injured after the Final Four. Back to back championship appearances should yield better than back to back CBI appearances and a 5th place finish year 3 in the A-10. Or so the the poutrage theme goes here. Especially with John Wooden, I mean Stevens, coaching at Butler.
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You obviously haven't been following poutrage here over the years when we had the audacity to go to the NIT with our best player injured after the Final Four. Back to back championship appearances should yield better than back to back CBI appearances and a 5th place finish year 3 in the A-10. Or so the the poutrage theme goes here. Especially with John Wooden, I mean Stevens, coaching at Butler.
Sweet merciful Christ you're annoying. Pakuni already pointed out you were wrong with the back to back CBI comment -it was only last year, not two in a row. Yet you repeated this brain-dead factually incorrect talking point in an attempt to "win" an argument against no one. Congrats.
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Sweet merciful Christ you're annoying. Pakuni already pointed out you were wrong with the back to back CBI comment -it was only last year, not two in a row. Yet you repeated this brain-dead factually incorrect talking point in an attempt to "win" an argument against no one. Congrats.
My bad...I admit my mistake, something you have not been able to do.
So let me rephrase, coming off back to back final appearances they went to the CBI and then finished 5th in the A-10. The poutrage theme stands....especially considering how great Stevens is.
I hear Jerry Palm is the worst and everyone knows it. :'(
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Actually, just one CBI appearance.
As for Smart, beyond what you already mentioned, he's young (only 35), charismatic, coaches an exciting style of ball and has a great pedigree (came up under Oliver Purnell and Billy Donovan).
He'd fit in very well in LA.
Thanks my bad on the CBI. Thanks for the correction.
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My bad...I admit my mistake, something you have not been able to do.
So let me rephrase, coming off back to back final appearances they went to the CBI and then finished 5th in the A-10. The poutrage theme stands....especially considering how great Stevens is.
I hear Jerry Palm is the worst and everyone knows it. :'(
I admit them all the time. Said I was dead wrong on Indiana. NBD. Stil not sure who you're arguing against with this non sequitur rant directed at Brad Stevens. Tilting at windmills mon frere. Not a good look.
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You obviously haven't been following poutrage here over the years when we had the audacity to go to the NIT with our best player injured after the Final Four. Back to back championship appearances should yield better than back to back CBI appearances and a 5th place finish year 3 in the A-10. Or so the the poutrage theme goes here. Especially with John Wooden, I mean Stevens, coaching at Butler.
not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, or so you can rip on some for criticizing too often, while pointing out some aren't criticized enough (all in the same post)...and you now are comparing a FF run to CBI at marquette as being equal to a CBI appearance after back-to-back national championship appearances by butler.
not to mention, stevens is a classy guy, while tc was/is a prick.
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The year after our final 4, Diener started every game and MU went to the NIT. Starters were Diener, Novak, Merritt, Sanders and Chapman/Mason. He was hurt in 04-05.
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The year after our final 4, Diener started every game and MU went to the NIT. Starters were Diener, Novak, Merritt, Sanders and Chapman/Mason. He was hurt in 04-05.
Yep. Really no excuses for that team. Some really bad, embarrassing losses for that bunch.
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Texas at Houston in the CBI
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The year after our final 4, Diener started every game and MU went to the NIT. Starters were Diener, Novak, Merritt, Sanders and Chapman/Mason. He was hurt in 04-05.
Merritt was hurt that year with the shoulder and didn't play particularly well. Diener was hurt late in the year during the NIT and then again the following year.
We lost 12 games that year, three of them to ranked teams. We also beat #4 Louisville twice that season.
That was the year CUSA sent 6 teams to the NCAA tournament, more than the Big Ten, Pac 10, Big 12 and tied with the Big East, ACC and SEC. It was a very good conference that year. That's the biggest reason we didn't make it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NCAA_Men%27s_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament#Bids_by_conference
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I admit them all the time. Said I was dead wrong on Indiana. NBD. Stil not sure who you're arguing against with this non sequitur rant directed at Brad Stevens. Tilting at windmills mon frere. Not a good look.
Completely relevant...this just in, teams sometimes miss the NCAA tournament after a Final Four. Sometimes after back to back championship appearances...or gasp, sometimes after winning the NCAA tournament (see 12 hours ago with Kentucky).
Yet here it was as if it was the first time it had ever happened if you asked some members of this board. When, in fact, it happens more often than one thinks. You lose key guys, you have injuries, the conference is different, you have a target on your back, etc, etc. It has happened to Bob Knight, Denny Crum, Brad Stevens, John Caliprari, Tom Crean, etc, etc.
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Texas at Houston in the CBI
I'm sorry, but this thread isn't isn't about Texas, it's the UCLA's next head coach thread.