Good John Dawson Interview...

[jesmu84]

What'd he say about Derrick?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Most likely scenario is a combination of Buzz leading JJJ on and JJJ hearing what he wanted to hear....or it having nothing to do with playing time.

[Dawson Rental]

What'd he say about Derrick?

You're going to hell.  Unfortunately, you're probably taking your fellow readers of this thread along for the ride.

[NersEllenson]

Most likely scenario is a combination of Buzz leading JJJ on and JJJ hearing what he wanted to hear....or it having nothing to do with playing time.

Paint Touches did a good recap on JJJ's season and the peculiarities of his playing time.  Funny Buzz would say "who plays here?"  The toughest guys...then cite JJJ as the toughest out of boot camp...and then midway through non conference season start playing mind games with his playing time...and then totally mindf'ing JJJ during conference play.


http://painttouches.com/2014/05/06/marquette-year-in-review-jajuan-johnson/

[tower912]

I think it was against Villanova, but I may be wrong.   In one of the mid-season conference games, there was an extended period of play without TV timeouts.   The other team was making a run during this stretch.  When play finally stopped, Buzz did a mass substitution.   JJJ came in and the first time he touched the ball, 20 seconds in, shot a 1 pass, no conscience 3.   I remember coming out of my seat yelling at the screen.   Buzz sat him down quickly and JJJ was relegated to garbage time after that.    Fair to pull him out of that game immediately?   Yes.    Fair to bury him at the end of the bench?   I don't know.    He wasn't the first freshman to run afoul of a coach this way and I doubt he will be the last.   

[willie warrior]

Honestly don't know any of the details. It is either Buzz' or JJJ's issue depending on who you talk to. Probably truth to both

Always slurping the Buzzster. Make it simple: It is either Buzz's way or the Highway.

[willie warrior]

Ah yes--Jules slurping a Big Kahuna drink after sampling the punk's Big Kahuna Burger. Wonder which he and Vincent Vega preferred, the Big Kahuna or the Royale with Cheese?

[Dawson Rental]

Haha Murs...no doubt I'm a HUGE Dawson fan...and President of his Scoop Fan Club.  Might want to jump on board for that Dawson Slurper T-Shirt you mention, as demand will be stiff for them soon.

John will be a very good player at MU when all is said and done.  Don't know if we'll get to see it as much as I'd like this upcoming season...but have zero doubt as a Junior John will be a key player on the team.  He's a lot like Jerel McNeal...but with much better court vision...though perhaps not quite as quick as Jerel.  Has a great feel for the game too.

I can't even take credit for the idea.  You outed yourself to great acclaim in the "Who do you slurp for", thread.

Here's hoping that John doesn't get lost in the shuffle for a year due to Carlino.  I see the Jerel comparison breaking down when it comes to steals, though.  Jerel was a savant at that.

[NersEllenson]

I think it was against Villanova, but I may be wrong.   In one of the mid-season conference games, there was an extended period of play without TV timeouts.   The other team was making a run during this stretch.  When play finally stopped, Buzz did a mass substitution.   JJJ came in and the first time he touched the ball, 20 seconds in, shot a 1 pass, no conscience 3.   I remember coming out of my seat yelling at the screen.   Buzz sat him down quickly and JJJ was relegated to garbage time after that.    Fair to pull him out of that game immediately?   Yes.    Fair to bury him at the end of the bench?   I don't know.    He wasn't the first freshman to run afoul of a coach this way and I doubt he will be the last.   

That's what shooting guards are supposed to do.  And...when you are JJJ and have NO idea if you might see anymore minutes for God knows how long...yeah...you just might want to get up a shot when you have the chance.  Think Dawson did that a little bit last season too - as their playing time was so limited/choppy/sporadic - that you want to show what you can do when given a chance.

And let's face it...we didn't really excel running half court offense last year...to where we could usually work a possession into a good shot opportunity.  Shooting a shot early in a possession doesn't make it a bad shot...hell even Bo Ryan allows it.  

[tower912]

It was context, Ners.  In the context of the game, in the flow of the game, it was a boneheaded freshman mistake.   And if JJJ's attitude was as you say, one where he figured he didn't know when his next playing time was going to be so he should jack up the first available shot, then he didn't deserve to be on the floor and Buzz was right to bench him.   And I would EXPECT a coach to treat a freshman like that if that was the freshman's attitude.   What would Knight, K, Dean, Boeheim have done to a freshman who did that?  Hopefully, JJJ and Wojo reach a better understanding going forward and it can be looked back on as a learning experience.  

As I re-read your post, are you actually defending the notion that it is ok for a player to come in and jack up bad shots since he doesn't know when his next playing time might be?

[NersEllenson]

It was context, Ners.  In the context of the game, in the flow of the game, it was a boneheaded freshman mistake.   And if JJJ's attitude was as you say, one where he figured he didn't know when his next playing time was going to be so he should jack up the first available shot, then he didn't deserve to be on the floor and Buzz was right to bench him.   And I would EXPECT a coach to treat a freshman like that if that was the freshman's attitude.   What would Knight, K, Dean, Boeheim have done to a freshman who did that?  Hopefully, JJJ and Wojo reach a better understanding going forward and it can be looked back on as a learning experience. 

A 5-star recruit, at the shooting guard position...should pull the trigger on a good look from 3..regardless of the "context of the game."  And yes, I get your point about "context of the game."

I have NO DOUBT Wojo and JJJ will click better...as Wojo played the game at this level, knows a players mentality far better than Buzz could understand.  Here's a question?  What do you think it does for a player..a freshman particularly..confidence...when they get yanked for making the slightest mistake?  Think that promotes better play in the future?  HELL NO. Guys play tight, in that type of coaching.  The results last season speak for themselves...Buzz's coaching was awful.  Only guys who got a fair and consistent shake (more than fair) where Derrick and Jake...ironically, probably the two least talented guys on the team.

Buzz had Mayo all messed up for most of the past season...(and career) till he finally just let him play 30+ every game regardless of if he had a boneheaded turnover early, an ill-advised shot, etc.

And unless you've ever been in a position where you are stuck behind a guy that you know you are far more talented than, and can produce at a higher level than...yet watch him pretty much flounder all season long...yeah...it gets a little frustrating for a player...just as it would for those in the professional workplace.

[tower912]

Are you advocating coming and jacking up shots since you don't know when your next PT might be?    And did Dekker getting yanked by Bo for every defensive lapse as a freshman affect his development?

[NersEllenson]

Are you advocating coming and jacking up shots since you don't know when your next PT might be?    And did Dekker getting yanked by Bo for every defensive lapse as a freshman affect his development?

Can't speak to Dekker a whole lot...as I don't watch the Badgers unless against MU or their NCAA run last season...but I do recall seeing on the UW message board the other day that Dekker's cousin mentioned something to the effect of Dekker being over Bo...would have gone pro after this past season, had he not slumped down the stretch.

As for what I'm advocating:  I'm advocating that as a 5-star shooting guard recruit - I don't have a problem with you taking an open 3 point shot...if it is 10 seconds into the possession, 20 seconds into the possession, or 30 seconds into the possession.  (Unless of course we are end of game/time and score situation.)

But, would you answer my question:  What do you think it does for a kids confidence when he gets yanked for the slightest mistake?  What do you think it does for a kid, when he's constantly looking over his shoulder every time the horn sounds?  Did you watch the guys on MU closely last year...I noticed numerous times players on the floor seeing guys go to the scorers table...saw when the horn blew...the guys on the floor looking toward scorers table.

The best coaches get an 8-9 man rotation, and unless some crazy sh$t happens, rarely deviate from it.  The 3 to 4 subs generally replace the same player..at similar stages of a game.  Consistency leads to chemistry and cohesion.

I do recall watching an Iowa State game randomly for about 15 game minutes last season...as I was curious to see if Matt Thomas was any good.  Was amazed watching that game as he got about 9 minutes of run consecutively...jacked up 4 shots...missed them all..did nothing else of note...yet he still got his run in.  Was like "Wow, that's the way a player wants to be able to play."  Then again...Hoiberg played high major ball and NBA and saw how it works.  Buzz?  Please.

[tower912]

Freshmen have been getting yanked for playing like freshmen since they have been eligible.   It did not start with Buzz last year.   Alford under Knight.   Jordan under Dean.   Dekker under Bo.   Buzz's rotations and sub patterns were no different than they were in the S-16, S-16, E-8, Big East championship seasons.    He consistently did not give extended play to freshmen.    Yep, Buzz had transfers.   Most programs do.   And it is usually because a freshman comes in and thinks he is entitled to playing time and learns that he has to earn his minutes and do what the coach tells him.   I am NOT saying all or any of that applies to JJJ.   All I am saying as it pertains to JJJ is that he made a freshman decision in that moment and Buzz made a coach of a freshman decision.   

[NersEllenson]

Freshmen have been getting yanked for playing like freshmen since they have been eligible.   It did not start with Buzz last year.   Alford under Knight.   Jordan under Dean.   Dekker under Bo.   Buzz's rotations and sub patterns were no different than they were in the S-16, S-16, E-8, Big East championship seasons.    He consistently did not give extended play to freshmen.    Yep, Buzz had transfers.   Most programs do.   And it is usually because a freshman comes in and thinks he is entitled to playing time and learns that he has to earn his minutes and do what the coach tells him.   I am NOT saying all or any of that applies to JJJ.   All I am saying as it pertains to JJJ is that he made a freshman decision in that moment and Buzz made a coach of a freshman decision.   

So where do you point the blame then if Buzz coached identically to his S-16, S-16, E-8 style?  How do you go from E8 to missing the freaking NIT...when you return more letterwinners than at any time in your tenure as a coach?  And don't say leadership - because leadership starts with Buzz.

But...Buzz was not nearly as maniacal with his subbing in any of those years you mention as he was last year.  I've never seen anything like what I saw Buzz do last year in 30 years of playing/watching basketball closely.

And still would appreciate you answering my question as far as what you feel it does for a player when they know one mistake and it is bench city for me?  Why do you think Todd Mayo looked like a totally different player the last 15 games of the year?  And he's a freaking junior...it was because for the first time in Todd's career at MU...Buzz just let him run, and run, and run...regardless of his mistakes...as he got in his rhythm...mistakes reduced, confidence grew...and results beared it out....it matters how a coach coaches.  A hairline trigger is not a good policy for coaching success...and Buzz was way more quick trigger subbing last year than any of his previous 5.

[jesmu84]

I feel like I just woke up in January...

If it was a dumb shot/play then it was dumb. If it was against the coach's plan/wishes, then JJJ was wrong. Was JJJ wrong in that one instance? Probably. Was Buzz crazy all season? Yes. Can't we just agree on those points?

[GGGG]

So where do you point the blame then if Buzz coached identically to his S-16, S-16, E-8 style?  How do you go from E8 to missing the freaking NIT...when you return more letterwinners than at any time in your tenure as a coach?  And don't say leadership - because leadership starts with Buzz.

Because there were no adequate replacements for the three backcourt starters that he lost.  

And Mayo's issues last year were the result of Mayo.  He is solely responsible for why Buzz didn't trust him early.

[GGGG]

As for what I'm advocating:  I'm advocating that as a 5-star shooting guard recruit - I don't have a problem with you taking an open 3 point shot...if it is 10 seconds into the possession, 20 seconds into the possession, or 30 seconds into the possession.  (Unless of course we are end of game/time and score situation.)

So are you saying that highly touted freshmen play within a different system than other freshmen?  What about a 4 star?  A 3 star?  Do they not get the same latitude that JJJ has?

[NersEllenson]

Because there were no adequate replacements for the three backcourt starters that he lost.  

And Mayo's issues last year were the result of Mayo.  He is solely responsible for why Buzz didn't trust him early.

LOL - No adequate replacements for Junior, Vander and Trent?  Please.

Mayo should have been playing 33 minutes a game all year like Vander got as a junior...regardless of if "Buzz trusted him."  If he did..Todd's numbers would have been better across the board than Vander in every category.  Don't make me pull the statsheet side by side comparison of the two again.  Jake should have been a back up...and perhaps the 3rd backup to Mayo after JJJ.

Replacing Lockett?  Really - About 80% of this board wanted him benched in the middle of February.  He played better the last month of the season...yet somehow...I'm quite confident if Deonte Burton got 25 minutes a game all year last year..he'd have made us forget about Trent pretty quick.

And lastly...Dawson could have put up numbers similar to Junior if he was given 28 minutes a game like Junior got.  How do I know?  Because in watching Junior and Dawson...there isn't really anything Junior did better than what Dawson can do.  Junior isn't any quicker.  Junior doesn't shoot it better. Both are good in transition, seeing the floor...

[Lennys Tap]

Freshmen have been getting yanked for playing like freshmen since they have been eligible.   It did not start with Buzz last year.   Alford under Knight.   Jordan under Dean.   Dekker under Bo.   Buzz's rotations and sub patterns were no different than they were in the S-16, S-16, E-8, Big East championship seasons.    He consistently did not give extended play to freshmen.    Yep, Buzz had transfers.   Most programs do.   And it is usually because a freshman comes in and thinks he is entitled to playing time and learns that he has to earn his minutes and do what the coach tells him.   I am NOT saying all or any of that applies to JJJ.   All I am saying as it pertains to JJJ is that he made a freshman decision in that moment and Buzz made a coach of a freshman decision.   

+10,000. Every word you wrote is true. When the talent is down and you lose rather than win most of the tight games people say the guy they thought was a genius somehow did a 180 and became a fool, a maniac, a tanker of games. Those people are, of course, totally irrational, but whatever helps them sleep at night.

[NersEllenson]

So are you saying that highly touted freshmen play within a different system than other freshmen?  What about a 4 star?  A 3 star?  Do they not get the same latitude that JJJ has?

No...the point is as a SHOOTING GUARD.. you have a good look...you shoot the ball...especially when you play on a team with a totally inept PG...It is only MORE EGREGIOUS coaching when the player in question is a 5 star recruit at the position.  To coach a team to pass up open shots...is ridiculous.

[NersEllenson]

+10,000. Every word you wrote is true. When the talent is down and you lose rather than win most of the tight games people say the guy they thought was a genius somehow did a 180 and became a fool, a maniac, a tanker of games. Those people are, of course, totally irrational, but whatever helps them sleep at night.

LOL -  But the talent wasn't down.  Lenny...just give it up on Buzz. He was awful last year..doesn't change the fact he was great his first 5 years.  But to constantly take up for him, and act as if he's beyond reproach truly is becoming as insufferable as Chico's 6 year defense of Tom Crean.  I sure hope you don't go down that road. 

I damn well know you had ZERO thought going into last season we'd miss the freaking NIT.  Wish I could search and find your pre-season prediction for last season...if you made one...I"m quite sure it would have included an NCAA bid, perhaps Big East Championship and another Sweet 16 run....as you were supremely confident in Buzz.

[BM1090]

LOL - No adequate replacements for Junior, Vander and Trent?  Please.

Mayo should have been playing 33 minutes a game all year like Vander got as a junior...regardless of if "Buzz trusted him."  If he did..Todd's numbers would have been better across the board than Vander in every category.  Don't make me pull the statsheet side by side comparison of the two again.  Jake should have been a back up...and perhaps the 3rd backup to Mayo after JJJ.

Replacing Lockett?  Really - About 80% of this board wanted him benched in the middle of February.  He played better the last month of the season...yet somehow...I'm quite confident if Deonte Burton got 25 minutes a game all year last year..he'd have made us forget about Trent pretty quick.

And lastly...Dawson could have put up numbers similar to Junior if he was given 28 minutes a game like Junior got.  How do I know?  Because in watching Junior and Dawson...there isn't really anything Junior did better than what Dawson can do.  Junior isn't any quicker.  Junior doesn't shoot it better. Both are good in transition, seeing the floor...

I can entertain the Todd/Vander comparison even though I disagree.

Burton replacing Lockett? Defensively? No chance. Offensively? Probably an improvement. Sure.

But the comparison of Junior and Dawson is ludicrous. I'll give you that Dawson is probably a better shooter, even though the numbers don't really represent that. Also, Junior was far superior to Dawson as a driver and passer even in his first full year as a sophomore. Can Dawson get to that level and exceed it? Definitely. But it's not even close at this point.

[keefe]

Ah yes--Jules slurping a Big Kahuna drink after sampling the punk's Big Kahuna Burger. Wonder which he and Vincent Vega preferred, the Big Kahuna or the Royale with Cheese?

No question, Willie. Big Kahuna 8 days a week.

[jesmu84]

No...the point is as a SHOOTING GUARD.. you have a good look...you shoot the ball...especially when you play on a team with a totally inept PG...It is only MORE EGREGIOUS coaching when the player in question is a 5 star recruit at the position.  To coach a team to pass up open shots...is ridiculous.

Yes, it is ridiculous. However, if Buzz didn't want JJJ to shoot it and JJJ did anyway, then yes, JJJ was wrong and should be benched. And it also makes Buzz crazy. Both were in the wrong - it's okay to admit.