COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[dgies9156]

Thanks for the on the ground intel.  I have never seen him advocate for vaccines but I only spent two week in FLA this year. 

What I do know is he has very famously battled against private enterprise that has wanted to require vaccines.  Telling U.S. businesses how they should operate seems to be the biggest Un-Republican, non conservative way of governing possible.  And IMO it sends a message that you're anti vaccine.  I really don't care that he made the elderly a priority...everyone did.  That was a lay-up.  I just find it incredible that a Republican Governor is fighting with cruise ship operators.  I thought we were the party of Business?

Look, I think that was a dumb hill for him to die on. Whether he liked the idea or not, federal law supersedes state law on international cruise ships. He was going to lose that one and will lose assuming the cruise industry starts up again. My wife says it best: "Pick your battles." That one wasn't one worth fighting and will bite him in the backside if he runs for President.

As to the elderly, yes and no. He pushed them ahead of the teachers and lowered the vaccination eligible age to 65 ahead of anyone. Not sure there are too many governors who did that. And he did not send Covid-19 infected patients to nursing homes full of Florida's elderly. Our state opened ahead of just about everyone and despite the push for shelter in place, we rejected it. He was right on that too.

Brother PBI, I think you and I probably are in the same media market. I watch Senior Ken and Barbie News (Michael and the Lovely Kelly on Channel 5). I have seen the Governor encourage people to get it and I've seen lots of other Florida business, civic, academic and social leaders do the same. DeSantis gets few style points among people who watch him regularly, particularly those who do not like him (and I'll acknowledge that in our household, there's a strong difference of opinion on DeSantis). He's too combative at times and tends to make non-political issues overtly political, which leads to the kind of view about him you have. It is not a really unifying picture and tends to cause people to hear things DeSantis may not mean.

Maybe he should have said, "yes I got it and you should too..." I think he would be clearer and the message more focused. Or perhaps, he should order all State Employees to get vaccinated if they want to work. I agree it would be a more powerful message, especially to the stupid.

Nonetheless, not withstanding the past few weeks, Florida's record since Covid-19 emerged has been pretty good. In the beginning, our state had goals for reopening and we stuck to them. We really didn't have mask mandates and many of us made decisions based on our view about masks. We were in a restaurant in Vero Beach we really liked, but after the staff served us without masks, we suspended our patronage of that restaurant. This was during the height of covid and it blew our minds that our county sheriff's deputies and elected officials who were in the restaurant weren't wearing masks either. It was choice and I respect that just as it was our choice to voice displeasure by eating elsewhere and advising our friends to avoid the place.

Brother MU, love you man, but you are absolutely wrong. Our largest retail employers in the state, Publix Supermarkets and Wal*Mart, had mandatory masking requirements from the git-go. Our large pharmacies also demanded masks and social distancing in their stores. Most of the smaller, local retailers, restaurants and even the gun shops followed suit. Before the vaccine was available, we were as masked up in Florida as was Illinois, New York, California or any other major state. Private industry didn't need the government to act -- it did on its own. And when small business like the restaurant I noted, didn't follow suit, they paid for it with lower patronage. If Publix or CVS, for example, seek to require employees to be vaccinated, you won't hear a peep from DeSantis!

DeSantis NEVER criticized Publix or any other retailer that required masks in Florida. And, for the record, Publix is based in Lakeland, FL.

[Billy Hoyle]

So much for following the science.

Our massive homeless population was exempted. And in the announcement it stated one need not wear a mask while swimming.

[pbiflyer]

Publix is also one of DeSantis's largest financial supporters. Of course he is not critical of them.
He also opposes mandatory vaccination of nursing home workers. And the elderly he was so quick to vaccinate are getting infected by the workers. Sometimes leading to hospitalizations. Again, not very fiscally responsible.

[dgies9156]

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

[Dr. Blackheart]

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

I said it before but the Feds blew it by NOT tying stimulus checks, student loan and rent forgiveness to vaccinations.

[Pakuni]

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I said it before but the Feds blew it by NOT tying stimulus checks, student loan and rent forgiveness to vaccinations.

That's a great idea, but outside of rent forgiveness (which i hear is STILL ~90% unallocated), all the others fell into periods where the vaccine wasn't available.

[dgies9156]

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

Brother Pakuni:

I fly United because I've always flown United and I'm 1K/Million Miler. But I firmly believe the $200 per month is real and offsets the cost of providing additional health care to the unvaccinated.

I don't think you have to worry about unvaccinated employees. Not sure how many front line airline employees can afford $200/month in additional health care costs.

Delta's vaccination rate probably will be extremely close to United's.

[MU82]

Brother MU, love you man, but you are absolutely wrong.

Cruise lines ARE a private business, and you yourself said his decision to fight them very well could bite him on the backside.

And this:

Publix is also one of DeSantis's largest financial supporters. Of course he is not critical of them.
He also opposes mandatory vaccination of nursing home workers. And the elderly he was so quick to vaccinate are getting infected by the workers. Sometimes leading to hospitalizations. Again, not very fiscally responsible.

Look, DeSantis signed an executive order forbidding mandates (as did Abbott in Texas). It is big-government, anti-business and anti-health.

Add to that his refusal to criticize the anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists, and he has given whack jobs the cover they needed. Of course, he doesn't want to get booed by his base the way the previous president just did.

[Pakuni]

Delta's vaccination rate probably will be extremely close to United's.

United's will be 100 percent.

Do you find it a bit inconsistent to say you're opposed to vaccine mandates, but strongly favor terms of employment that, by your own estimation, would require vaccination?

[Dr. Blackheart]

That's a great idea, but outside of rent forgiveness (which i hear is STILL ~90% unallocated), all the others fell into periods where the vaccine wasn't available.

The third check went out starting in March. Maybe that was late but not by a lot.

Child tax credits are monthly for the rest of the year. Guess who are the most non-vaxed adult age groups?

And then there are states like California who have sent out sizable state surplus checks.

A fourth check has stalled as has extended unemployment but governments don't think that way in terms of incentives. Instead we get political discourse about Mother Nature who is going to have her way anyway.

[JWags85]

United's will be 100 percent.

Do you find it a bit inconsistent to say you're opposed to vaccine mandates, but strongly favor terms of employment that, by your own estimation, would require vaccination?

I don’t think that’s inconsistent.  He’s been pretty firm in his support of vaccines. And thinking everyone should be vaccinated.

To me there is a clear difference between “I think my company should require vaccinations for all our employees” and “I think the government should force/mandate my company to require vaccinations”

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The child tax credit checks are just an advance on the full credit they would have received when they filed their taxes though.

To me they should simply pass a vaccine tax credit that can be advanced.  $500 per person regardless of income.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Boy, does Delta Airlines have a great idea.

We're not going to force you to be vaccinated against Covid-19. As in, it's your right to be stupid if you want to be.

Oh, by the way, your health insurance will increase by $200 per month if you don't show proof of vaccination.

Very much the right idea!!!!!!!

Clarification:  Delta Air Lines is basing this on B.1.617.2, not the Delta variant.  😂

[dgies9156]

I don’t think that’s inconsistent.  He’s been pretty firm in his support of vaccines. And thinking everyone should be vaccinated.

To me there is a clear difference between “I think my company should require vaccinations for all our employees” and “I think the government should force/mandate my company to require vaccinations”

Brother JWags:

Absolutely. I was vaccinated as soon as I could be under Florida's priorities. I received my second shot in April and pushed my children and my wife to do likewise. It did not take much prodding as we all are in agreement.

As a corporate employee, you have a choice: Get vaccinated or find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Period. The right to be stupid.

On another subject, I want to raise a question for the group about governors and personal actions. Doesn't matter whether your political leaders are liberal or conservative, here's the questions:

1) If my governor advocated an action that affected my health, I would do on his/her word.
2) I'd listen to my governor but my governor has no impact on my healthcare decisions. If I'm vaccinated, its because my doctor tells me so.
3) My governor's advocacy has no affect on my life. I act based on other factors.

Same three questions for the President. 

One last thought on DeSantis. Brother MU, our governor did not mandate vaccinations for nursing home workers. But so what. I'm confident enough that nursing homes themselves will mandate employee vaccines. Do you want your parents or grandparents living in a nursing home where the workers aren't vaccinated? I think the market would speak for itself.

[warriorchick]

That extra $200 a month sure helps Delta, and sure hurts unvaccinated employees.
Not sure what it does for those who are exposed to illness by those unvaccinated employees.
Given my druthers, I'm flying United.

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

[Billy Hoyle]

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

I'm with you.  If you engage in activities that put you at a higher risk then you should pay more. When I got life insurance I had to answer questions about recreational activities like rock climbing, sky diving, scuba, etc.

[Hards Alumni]

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

You're right.

[JWags85]

I'm with you.  If you engage in activities that put you at a higher risk then you should pay more. When I got life insurance I had to answer questions about recreational activities like rock climbing, sky diving, scuba, etc.

I think we should speak with Reuben Feffer to assess any insurance premium increases and how vaccination affects the algorithm

[cheebs09]

I think we should speak with Reuben Feffer to assess any insurance premium increases and how vaccination affects the algorithm

Bravo. That’s a pretty deep pull.

[pbiflyer]

Brother JWags:

Absolutely. I was vaccinated as soon as I could be under Florida's priorities. I received my second shot in April and pushed my children and my wife to do likewise. It did not take much prodding as we all are in agreement.

As a corporate employee, you have a choice: Get vaccinated or find a job that doesn't require vaccination. Period. The right to be stupid.

On another subject, I want to raise a question for the group about governors and personal actions. Doesn't matter whether your political leaders are liberal or conservative, here's the questions:

1) If my governor advocated an action that affected my health, I would do on his/her word.
2) I'd listen to my governor but my governor has no impact on my healthcare decisions. If I'm vaccinated, its because my doctor tells me so.
3) My governor's advocacy has no affect on my life. I act based on other factors.

Same three questions for the President. 

One last thought on DeSantis. Brother MU, our governor did not mandate vaccinations for nursing home workers. But so what. I'm confident enough that nursing homes themselves will mandate employee vaccines. Do you want your parents or grandparents living in a nursing home where the workers aren't vaccinated? I think the market would speak for itself.

DeSantis today held a press conference saying statistics don't support masks helping prevent the spread of covid. Not sure how that could in any universe be construed as helping overcome covid.
https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1430582058380898304?s=20

And most nursing homes in Florida are not requiring vaccines, as there is a worker shortage, especially in that low wage, tough job industry. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Floridians Are Turning on Ron DeSantis as Covid Deaths Hit Record High
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/florida-covid-cases-deaths-ron-desantis-mask-mandates-1216694/

(Trigger warning for Lenny and Ziggy: Don't wet your pants, but this involves a poll).

"Covid-19 is obliterating Florida.

The Sunshine State comfortably leads the nation in average daily cases, average daily hospitalizations, and average daily deaths, according to The New York Times. This isn’t just because of its large population. Florida also leads the nation in hospitalizations per capita, and trails on Louisiana and Mississippi in cases per capita and deaths per capita. Last week, the state reported more new cases and more deaths than at any other point during the pandemic.

It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise, then, that Floridians have had it with Governor Ron DeSantis’ continued opposition to sensible preventative measures that have been proven to mitigate the spread of the disease. A Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday found that a plurality of DeSantis’ constituents believe he is hurting rather than helping efforts to slow the spread of the disease; that 61 percent of Floridians believe the rise recent explosion was preventable; and that 63 percent believe masks are effective while 59 percent support wearing them indoors.

The poll also found that 60 percent of Florida residents support requiring faculty and students to wear masks while in school, something DeSantis has opposed so stridently that he has threatened to strip funding from the school districts who impose mask mandates."

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.tampabay.com/opinion/2021/08/10/what-we-now-know-about-how-to-fight-the-delta-variant-of-covid-column/?fbclid=IwAR3oxe6M70hCwTjIJtS-HBogrGwrbq2EIRDxyFgK82rX6smt8zHue1wxlHY

I found this very informative to someone like me not very scientifically minded.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Floridians Are Turning on Ron DeSantis as Covid Deaths Hit Record High
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/florida-covid-cases-deaths-ron-desantis-mask-mandates-1216694/

(Trigger warning for Lenny and Ziggy: Don't wet your pants, but this involves a poll).

"Covid-19 is obliterating Florida.

The Sunshine State comfortably leads the nation in average daily cases, average daily hospitalizations, and average daily deaths, according to The New York Times. This isn’t just because of its large population. Florida also leads the nation in hospitalizations per capita, and trails on Louisiana and Mississippi in cases per capita and deaths per capita. Last week, the state reported more new cases and more deaths than at any other point during the pandemic.

It shouldn’t come as a huge surprise, then, that Floridians have had it with Governor Ron DeSantis’ continued opposition to sensible preventative measures that have been proven to mitigate the spread of the disease. A Quinnipiac poll released Tuesday found that a plurality of DeSantis’ constituents believe he is hurting rather than helping efforts to slow the spread of the disease; that 61 percent of Floridians believe the rise recent explosion was preventable; and that 63 percent believe masks are effective while 59 percent support wearing them indoors.

The poll also found that 60 percent of Florida residents support requiring faculty and students to wear masks while in school, something DeSantis has opposed so stridently that he has threatened to strip funding from the school districts who impose mask mandates."

If you think I'm triggered by a poll (that you agreed was questionable), then you are a bigger pansy than I thought.

[Pakuni]

Why is doing this any different from charging smokers extra for their health insurance? It's a choice people make that can materially increase their future medical bills.  Why should any company have to subsidize that?

It's not and they shouldn't.
But we're not talking about smoking or rock climbing or riding a motorcycle. If a co-worker or employee at a business I patronize does those things, it doesn't threaten my health or safety in any way.
If that same co-worker or employee is a) significantly more likely to get COVID and b) spreading it more easily than a vaccinated person, that very much threatens my health.

I have no problem with Delta imposing an insurance surcharge on the unvaccinated. I'm just pointing out that the primary beneficiaries of that are the company and its health insurance provider.