Big East presidents/ADs meeting this week - expansion?

[NYWarrior]

Expansion a possibility

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_looks_to_expand_bVIhWzOrP6cZkQQWeyjmWM

[brewcity77]

But sources at the league office confirmed there is concern the football members might be considering breaking away.

That is my biggest worry. Granted, there's still plenty of good basketball teams, but losing UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia takes some of the best teams we have, and losing Louisville and Cincy would be disappointing from a rivalry standpoint. I hate to say it, but it almost seems like if the Big East does expand, which it likely needs to do to maintain BCS status, it will need to expand to add as many non-football schools as it does football schools. 20 team basketball league, anyone?

[bilsu]

19 team league would be good. Then you will still have an 18 game basketball schedule and play every team once. Much better than having unbalanced mirror game schedule. Is adding TCU good or bad for Buzz? He already is recruiting in Texas. Adding TCU would appear to help him, but might make other Big East schools more attractive to Texas players.

[Skatastrophy]

It always sucks not having Marquette in the driver's seat for stuff like this.  Bleh...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Expansion a possibility

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_looks_to_expand_bVIhWzOrP6cZkQQWeyjmWM

TCU and Houston....hmmm, where did we hear that before.   


Would love to see it, for many reasons, including the Houston addition and Mack Rhoades.

[Golden Avalanche]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

[Clam Crowder]

Providence and St. John's also have no football, but yet the Big East Headquarters is in Providence, and the Big East tournament in Madison Square Garden is directly connected to St. John's being in the Big East

[HoopsMalone]

I would hope that the Big East does not give up on the Chicago area TV market yet.  DePaul and MU both look like they are on the up.  If they add two football teams, great.  DePaul and MU don't get a piece of that money anyway.  Both schools can still add profit to hoops though.  What is really the difference between a 16 and 18 team bball conference anyway? 

It's already probably too big, but giving up the Chicago market would be foolish in my opinion.

Basketball is also on the up in general from my point of view.  The NBA has significantly more excitement than it had 5 years ago.  International ball even seems to get more coverage.  Football may always be king, but the Big East may not way to give up the potential profits from the Chicago media market for basketball quite yet.  The Big East can find ways to make more cash on hoops.  No reason to mess up a good thing.

I would say the same thing about St. John's and the NY market even though they are hoops only.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

From what I've heard, that's mostly the East coast fans chirping, but there is definitely a bias by some fans against the Midwest schools and they voice it all too often for comfort.  I have not heard those rumors from the perspective of the actual universities or the conference, but it doesn't mean it's off the table.  DePaul is certainly doing us no favors with the way they've played the last few years and many schools see us tied at the hip, both in terms of travel and in historic pairings.

I'd love to see Seton Hall get the boot.  They are not committed financially to playing in the Big East.

As said in the past, the conference realignment shuffle is not over by a long shot, regardless of what Canadian Dimes states.  Many more dominoes will fall in the next few years, UNLESS, Notre Dame joins for football.  The chances of that are almost nil, but that would be a God send in so many ways.

At the end of the day, we don't control a lot of our destiny on this stuff.  Football drives the train. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Article on Houston, if invited.

Other articles posted below as well


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/506626-houston-football-if-the-big-east-offers-invite-coogs-must-accept

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/506557-the-big-east-conference-meets-tomorrow-or-fireworks-in-philadelphia

http://www.businessinsider.com/big-east-looks-1000-miles-west-in-expansion-talks-2010-11


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/11/uh_big_east_c-usa.php

[GGGG]

I would hope that the Big East does not give up on the Chicago area TV market yet.  DePaul and MU both look like they are on the up.  If they add two football teams, great.  DePaul and MU don't get a piece of that money anyway.  Both schools can still add profit to hoops though.  What is really the difference between a 16 and 18 team bball conference anyway? 

It's already probably too big, but giving up the Chicago market would be foolish in my opinion.

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

[chren21]

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

Absolutely not. People in Chicago could care less unless tied to Depaul or a big east school. Until Depaul figures a way to get a 13,000 seat stadium built in Lincoln park done they will not draw or be able to recruit the way they should be able to. Don't hold your breath on them getting that done either.

[brewcity77]

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

Give you the market, no, but give you access to it, yes. With recent talks about a Big East network, having DePaul could be nice when it comes to selling the package to ComCast and the like. What they are really looking for is people to watch the network in general, it doesn't have to be DePaul fans, or even Big East fans. If you can put a UConn/Syracuse, or West Virginia/Pitt, or any number of other matches during the week, you'll get interest from basketball fans in general. If I'm home some Wednesday night, I'd sooner watch Duke/Wake Forest or Texas/Oklahoma State if they were on than most of the stuff running on the major networks. I may not be an ACC or Big 12 fan, but there are plenty of games that would still draw my interest, and having access to the Chicago market, I'm guessing they'd be banking more on that than just alums of DePaul. Also, while DePaul may not be what they once were in Chicago, Notre Dame still is. If ND doesn't get the Chicago market, it will still bring in Chicago viewers.

[chren21]

I was responding in terms of the Chicago market caring about Depaul.  But in terms of the network I could not agree more with what brewcity stated.

[Aughnanure]

This will not end well...

[Clam Crowder]

Any reason ur saying that? Or are u just a pessimist?

[Aughnanure]

Im pretty much of the belief that the current conference alignment is only temporary. To think this league will exist in ten years is crazy...5 years max. Under what conference shift, which is coming and was only delayed by Texas this summer, does Marquette end up in an equal or better situation? Simply put, our present situation will not be improved in even the most optimistic scenarios and...... that conference realignments are not too pretty in general. Not to say this is end for MU, but just sad that the current amazing situation will eventually end and not be equaled.

Now, I dont think this will necessarily even dampen our success, but Marquette will mostly likely be in a conference that a)will not be televised nationally as much b) will not be given as much natural respect and c) will not be able to receive national notoriety as often.

[Daniel]

Could make recruiting tougher - we will have to see what pans out.  Hopefully it will be good or MU.

[MUBasketball]

Now, I dont think this will necessarily even dampen our success, but Marquette will mostly likely be in a conference that a)will not be televised nationally as much b) will not be given as much natural respect and c) will not be able to receive national notoriety as often.

I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think things COULD turn out pretty well for MU. Hard to imagine a situation as good as it is now (as you mentioned), but if there is realignment and if MU is split up from the rest of the league, the non-football schools plus Xavier (they would be key) would be a great base for an incredibly competitive league. 10 or 12 would be a great size, and that would be the bulk of the league right there.

It's important to keep in mind that Xavier has had almost unparalleled success over the last decade, despite competing in the A-10. A-10 is a solid league, but not a high major one either. Of course, Memphis and Gonzaga other examples.

Is there a stop to this conference realignment in site? In my scenario, Big East & some A-10 schools would merge. Thus, the A-10 needs to pluck from other conferences....just a never ending cycle.

Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[Tugg Speedman]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

What happen to the rumour that ND was going to get an ultimatum ... join BE football or get kicked out.  That makes more sense than this rumour.

[GGGG]

What happen to the rumour that ND was going to get an ultimatum ... join BE football or get kicked out.  That makes more sense than this rumour.

Not really.  Having ND around gives the BE some national cache that neither MU nor DePaul bring.  Furthermore, if they continue to agree to schedule BE team's regularly, it gives BE schools marquee football opponents reguarly.  Frankly, ND probably gives you the Chicago market better than De Paul, and my guess is that many view Milwaukee as not worth the effort.

[Marquette84]

I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think things COULD turn out pretty well for MU. Hard to imagine a situation as good as it is now (as you mentioned), but if there is realignment and if MU is split up from the rest of the league, the non-football schools plus Xavier (they would be key) would be a great base for an incredibly competitive league. 10 or 12 would be a great size, and that would be the bulk of the league right there.

It's important to keep in mind that Xavier has had almost unparalleled success over the last decade, despite competing in the A-10. A-10 is a solid league, but not a high major one either. Of course, Memphis and Gonzaga other examples.

Is there a stop to this conference realignment in site? In my scenario, Big East & some A-10 schools would merge. Thus, the A-10 needs to pluck from other conferences....just a never ending cycle.

Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

What is the compelling reason for Xavier to want to leave the current A10, where they have experienced consistent success?  What do you have to gain?

They've made the NCAA tournament in 6 of the last 7 seasons, been in the top half of the bracket in five of them, made deep runs in the tournament, been on TV frequently, been invited to marquee pre-conference tournaments, attracted good recruits, won the league championship 4 straight years, been consistently ranked in the top 25 etc.

Most years, they're going to waltz through their league schedule, which results in a top 15 rank, great tournament seed, and a 25 to 30 win season. 

Butler is another example.  They've perfected the art of playing for rank and seed.  On New Year's Day, Butler wasn't ranked (not even receiving votes).  By season's end, they were #10 in one poll, #15 in the other--and they never even played another ranked team! 

Despite the fact that they played in the lowly Horizon league, they received a favorable #5 seed, which they parlayed into a deep NCAA run.

Butler or Xavier could join a conference with the BE teams, and likely wind up with fewer wins overall, a slightly lower rank (based on more losses), and a hope on selection day that their stronger schedule is enough to pull them into the tournament, probably with a lower seed than they're used to receiving. 

I'm hard pressed to see any substantial benefit for Xavier or Butler to give up the situation they have now to join a more competitive league where the best case is they will share the stage with MU, Villanova and Georgetown (and possibly St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul)--and at worst might get pushed off. 

[Aughnanure]

What is the compelling reason for Xavier to want to leave the current A10, where they have experienced consistent success?  What do you have to gain?

They've made the NCAA tournament in 6 of the last 7 seasons, been in the top half of the bracket in five of them, made deep runs in the tournament, been on TV frequently, been invited to marquee pre-conference tournaments, attracted good recruits, won the league championship 4 straight years, been consistently ranked in the top 25 etc.

Most years, they're going to waltz through their league schedule, which results in a top 15 rank, great tournament seed, and a 25 to 30 win season. 

Butler is another example.  They've perfected the art of playing for rank and seed.  On New Year's Day, Butler wasn't ranked (not even receiving votes).  By season's end, they were #10 in one poll, #15 in the other--and they never even played another ranked team! 

Despite the fact that they played in the lowly Horizon league, they received a favorable #5 seed, which they parlayed into a deep NCAA run.

Butler or Xavier could join a conference with the BE teams, and likely wind up with fewer wins overall, a slightly lower rank (based on more losses), and a hope on selection day that their stronger schedule is enough to pull them into the tournament, probably with a lower seed than they're used to receiving. 

I'm hard pressed to see any substantial benefit for Xavier or Butler to give up the situation they have now to join a more competitive league where the best case is they will share the stage with MU, Villanova and Georgetown (and possibly St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul)--and at worst might get pushed off. 

Its beneficial because they will make more money. Your argument on pure basketball success is valid, but they would make more money in a league with Nova, GTown, ND, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, DePaul, etc then they would in the Horizon League or A10. A10 and Horizon really has no national names (outside of Butler and Xavier, if you consider them that high) and this league will arguably have more than 5 well-known nationally respected names....which equals more TV dollars.

[monkeyman34]

I would say a conference of G'town, Prov, St. Johns, Nova, MU, ND, Depaul, Butler, and Xavier would be a pretty solid basketball conference.  Playing everyone twice, with the conference tourny at the end of the season.  Possibly add a 10th team (Dayton, SLU, Temple, UMass, Valpo, Cleveland State, Wright State, UWM -- I picked those teams b/c they hold 10K + in their basketball arenas, with UMass at 9 1/2 ) and have an 18 game conference schedule. 

[kmwtrucks]

My Worry would be the Big East football schools would add 3 or 4 (depending on Vill) and then bounce 3-4 of the basketball schools.  In that Situation Gtown, ND, Nova, and ST johns would be safe which would leave Depaul, MU, Prov, Seton Hall possible on the outside.  I think if they only bounced 2 teams we would make it, 3 or 4 I think we would be on the outs.

[GGGG]

I would say a conference of G'town, Prov, St. Johns, Nova, MU, ND, Depaul, Butler, and Xavier would be a pretty solid basketball conference.  Playing everyone twice, with the conference tourny at the end of the season.  Possibly add a 10th team (Dayton, SLU, Temple, UMass, Valpo, Cleveland State, Wright State, UWM -- I picked those teams b/c they hold 10K + in their basketball arenas, with UMass at 9 1/2 ) and have an 18 game conference schedule. 

ND stays with the BE.  There is no way that the football schools kick ND out.

Dayton, Temple, SLU and UMass would be fine.  The Horizon League schools would be bad.  I mean...Valpo???

[CTWarrior]

My Worry would be the Big East football schools would add 3 or 4 (depending on Vill) and then bounce 3-4 of the basketball schools.  In that Situation Gtown, ND, Nova, and ST johns would be safe which would leave Depaul, MU, Prov, Seton Hall possible on the outside.  I think if they only bounced 2 teams we would make it, 3 or 4 I think we would be on the outs.

My fear exactly, and this isn't too far-fetched.  If we were left to pick up the pieces with DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall, we would not have the core of a big-time basketball conference.  It would be near impossible to lure Butler, Xavier, Temple, etc. to that conference core.  Such a scenario would leave us worse off than we were when in C-USA or even the old Great Midwest, where we at least had the likes of Louisville, Memphis and Cincy to give our league some legitimacy.  We'd have to go the big fish in a small pond route of Gonzaga and Butler, but that road leads to ruin a lot more than to success.

[Aughnanure]

My fear exactly, and this isn't too far-fetched.  If we were left to pick up the pieces with DePaul, Providence and Seton Hall, we would not have the core of a big-time basketball conference.  It would be near impossible to lure Butler, Xavier, Temple, etc. to that conference core.  Such a scenario would leave us worse off than we were when in C-USA or even the old Great Midwest, where we at least had the likes of Louisville, Memphis and Cincy to give our league some legitimacy.  We'd have to go the big fish in a small pond route of Gonzaga and Butler, but that road leads to ruin a lot more than to success.

Even in that worst case scenario, which is pretty terrible (not being associated with GTown, Nova and St. Johns would really hurt) - I think the schools like Xavier, Butler, etc would still want to realign as well (esp considering there will be so much overall realignment). You can say all you want about how well they are doing now, but they know they need to be in the most competitive, highest respected conference possible and the Horizon simply isnt doing it. We would probably end up of a mix of Big East leftovers and the cream of the crop from the A10, mixed with some other schools.

I would see some mix of schools such as: Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, UMass, Seton Hall, Providence, St. Louis, Richmond, George Washington, Creighton, Wichita St., Charlotte, Southern Illinois, Duquesne, St. Joseph's

(What happens to Memphis by the way? No one seems to even want to touch them- would they be interested...it would be a better conference to join overall, as long as they dont value their football much)

[GGGG]

I would see some mix of schools such as: Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, UMass, Seton Hall, Providence, St. Louis, Richmond, George Washington, Creighton, Wichita St., Charlotte, Southern Illinois, Duquesne, St. Joseph's

Nothing more exciting than a Saturday afternoon game against Wichita.  Maybe channel 529 on my digital tier would televise it.  Hope they don't show the crowd shots with 8,000 people in the seats.

[Aughnanure]

Nothing more exciting than a Saturday afternoon game against Wichita.  Maybe channel 529 on my digital tier would televise it.  Hope they don't show the crowd shots with 8,000 people in the seats.

Nice cheap insult. Too bad they have a very good overall athletic program, being the #1 wining baseball program the past 31 years, and a solid history of basketball success along with an arena of 10,500+

[GGGG]

Nice cheap insult. Too bad they have a very good overall athletic program, being the #1 wining baseball program the past 31 years, and a solid history of basketball success along with an arena of 10,500+

No one here cares about their baseball team nor anything else about their athletic program except for basketball.  And their "solid history" of basketball success includes a whopping *8* NCAA bids...which is better than SLU's six bids I guess...

But the real point is that the drop off from Georgetown and Syracuse down to Wichta and Creighton in terms of marquee value is a steep one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nice cheap insult. Too bad they have a very good overall athletic program, being the #1 wining baseball program the past 31 years, and a solid history of basketball success along with an arena of 10,500+

Plus the students use the Shocker gesture at the games....which you gotta love

[Marquette84]

Even in that worst case scenario, which is pretty terrible (not being associated with GTown, Nova and St. Johns would really hurt) - I think the schools like Xavier, Butler, etc would still want to realign as well (esp considering there will be so much overall realignment). You can say all you want about how well they are doing now, but they know they need to be in the most competitive, highest respected conference possible and the Horizon simply isnt doing it. We would probably end up of a mix of Big East leftovers and the cream of the crop from the A10, mixed with some other schools.

I would see some mix of schools such as: Marquette, DePaul, Butler, Xavier, Dayton, UMass, Seton Hall, Providence, St. Louis, Richmond, George Washington, Creighton, Wichita St., Charlotte, Southern Illinois, Duquesne, St. Joseph's

(What happens to Memphis by the way? No one seems to even want to touch them- would they be interested...it would be a better conference to join overall, as long as they dont value their football much)

And we could call it the Lake Wobegon Conference where the players are good looking and all the teams are above average.

There's a reason why those teams haven't ALREADY aligned with each other--and its not because they're waiting for the Big East teams to become available.

Certainly a conference with a core of Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, and Memphis would be far stronger than the A10 or CUSA or Horizon as they stand today.  

Then throw in Southern Illinois, Creighton, Dayton, UMass, UAB--even Wichita.  A lot better than the Horizon or the A10.

Yet Butler stands alone atop the Horizon.  X stands as the cream of the A10.  Memphis succeeds as the king of CUSA. Gonzaga provides only lip service to sharing the limelight with St. Marys.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Plus the students use the Shocker gesture at the games....which you gotta love

my kids wear Wichita State sweatshirts for that very reason.

[muguru]

And we could call it the Lake Wobegon Conference where the players are good looking and all the teams are above average.

There's a reason why those teams haven't ALREADY aligned with each other--and its not because they're waiting for the Big East teams to become available.

Certainly a conference with a core of Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, and Memphis would be far stronger than the A10 or CUSA or Horizon as they stand today.  

Then throw in Southern Illinois, Creighton, Dayton, UMass, UAB--even Wichita.  A lot better than the Horizon or the A10.

Yet Butler stands alone atop the Horizon.  X stands as the cream of the A10.  Memphis succeeds as the king of CUSA. Gonzaga provides only lip service to sharing the limelight with St. Marys.

Ughhhh I get so tired of seeing what people put together for a conference for MU to be in, and say "this isn't bad, or this is pretty good". NO NO NO NO!! That conference would SUCK. Any conferencewhere MU would be affiliated with any number of "mid majors" is NOT a good thing. If they leave the Big East...make no mistake about it, Marquette basketball as we know it, is dead. Period! Cords knows what he is doing however, and that being said, I don't see him joining the Big East if he felt like the conference would split after a number of years and MU would no longer be a part of it again. What would be the point?? I would think he got some assurances from the powers that be in the Big East that that would NOT happen. EVER.


Now, that being said....DePaul has NO business, NONE, ZERO, ZIP being in a conference like the Big East. They are a mid major program. They belong tied in with the Mac or a similar conference.

[Aughnanure]

And we could call it the Lake Wobegon Conference where the players are good looking and all the teams are above average.

There's a reason why those teams haven't ALREADY aligned with each other--and its not because they're waiting for the Big East teams to become available.

Certainly a conference with a core of Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga, and Memphis would be far stronger than the A10 or CUSA or Horizon as they stand today.  

Then throw in Southern Illinois, Creighton, Dayton, UMass, UAB--even Wichita.  A lot better than the Horizon or the A10.

Yet Butler stands alone atop the Horizon.  X stands as the cream of the A10.  Memphis succeeds as the king of CUSA. Gonzaga provides only lip service to sharing the limelight with St. Marys.

And Guess What? We may have no other choice. And it would still be more money than Xavier and Butler are getting now.

[Aughnanure]

No one here cares about their baseball team nor anything else about their athletic program except for basketball.  And their "solid history" of basketball success includes a whopping *8* NCAA bids...which is better than SLU's six bids I guess...

But the real point is that the drop off from Georgetown and Syracuse down to Wichta and Creighton in terms of marquee value is a steep one.

It was a hypothetical situation in the case that we lose our affiliation with those schools. What is the next most logical and best option is what I tried to come up with - not justifying that it would be better in any way shape or form.

[Skatastrophy]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/11/big-east-eyes-expansion-10-team-football-league.html

___________quote_________
According to a release, the presidents of the conference's 16 member institutions voted unanimously to approve "the process to evaluate the terms and conditions for potential expansion candidates."
...
One rumor to which there appeared to be zero credence before Tuesday and which the unanimous vote more or less quashes: That non-football-playing members such as DePaul and Marquette were in danger of being booted from the league.
_________________________

[Aughnanure]

http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/11/big-east-eyes-expansion-10-team-football-league.html

___________quote_________
According to a release, the presidents of the conference's 16 member institutions voted unanimously to approve "the process to evaluate the terms and conditions for potential expansion candidates."
...
One rumor to which there appeared to be zero credence before Tuesday and which the unanimous vote more or less quashes: That non-football-playing members such as DePaul and Marquette were in danger of being booted from the league.
_________________________

I know that should make me feel better, but its pretty scary to actually see that rumor in writing (rather then someone saying they heard in a thread).

[kmwtrucks]

They may have only metioned Depaul and MU since we are the Midwest schools.  If the article was written on the east Coast it may have mentioned PROV and SETON HALL.  If MU voted against expansion I would think that would leave us on the wrong side of the island and be the 1st ones off. 

[Marquette84]

And Guess What? We may have no other choice. And it would still be more money than Xavier and Butler are getting now.

My point is that we do have another choice.

There's an assumption that the only choice is to go and raid the best one or two teams from the A10, Horizon, CUSA, MVC, etc and combine them with the Big East castoffs to have any chance of success.

What I'm saying is that the roadmap for sustained NCAA success--and national recognition--has already been established by Xavier, Gonzaga, Memphis, and Butler.

Money is not the issue--since these four teams could undoubtedly make more money for their conference if they aligned with each other.  All of them feel that sustained high-level national recognition and NCAA success is more important than a bigger TV deal.

[Tulsa Warrior]

The sky is not falling....just changing.  The basketball tradition of the Big East is too valuable to damage.  The league is building a firewall against the Big Ten and ACC.  Football is a key to that.

[Jay-Z]

Every year around Selection Sunday, all people have to say about teams like Memphis, Xavier, and Butler is that they don't play anybody and their schedules are weak.  I would much rather have people saying that Marquette plays in the toughest conference in the country and came out of in 6th place.  

I mean, Butler last year was a 5 seed in the tourney and MU was a 6.  

[Aughnanure]

My point is that we do have another choice.

There's an assumption that the only choice is to go and raid the best one or two teams from the A10, Horizon, CUSA, MVC, etc and combine them with the Big East castoffs to have any chance of success.

What I'm saying is that the roadmap for sustained NCAA success--and national recognition--has already been established by Xavier, Gonzaga, Memphis, and Butler.

Money is not the issue--since these four teams could undoubtedly make more money for their conference if they aligned with each other.  All of them feel that sustained high-level national recognition and NCAA success is more important than a bigger TV deal.

I think you are assuming/acting as though they purposely chose these routes. Do you think Memphis really wanted to be left in CUSA while 5 of us went to the Big East? Same with Xavier, who had a better resume to join over DePaul. Gonzaga literally has no other option for their conference alignment.

You may be right, and maybe we should focus on dominating the lower Midwest and plains, but I think that would be an even greater risk long-term.

[GGGG]

The sky is not falling....just changing.  The basketball tradition of the Big East is too valuable to damage.  The league is building a firewall against the Big Ten and ACC.  Football is a key to that.

That's not quite what they are doing.  The B10 can still make a better offer than the BE will ever be able to provide, so if the B10 wants Rutgers...well, they will likely get Rutgers.

But it does open new markets and make the football side of things more lucrative.  I think it would be a mistake to "promote" Nova to FBS, but I guess that invitation is out there.  I would go TCU, Houston and Central Florida.  Big markets with decent programs.  This is a good thing for the BE.

Let me also add, that adding two more teams means that each team has nine conference games, and only has to find three non-conference opponents a year...versus the five they have to find now.

[ChicosBailBonds]

They may have only metioned Depaul and MU since we are the Midwest schools.  If the article was written on the east Coast it may have mentioned PROV and SETON HALL.  If MU voted against expansion I would think that would leave us on the wrong side of the island and be the 1st ones off. 

Seton Hall maybe, PROV never.  They started the conference and basically will always have a seat at the table if they wish.

[Marquette84]

I think you are assuming/acting as though they purposely chose these routes. Do you think Memphis really wanted to be left in CUSA while 5 of us went to the Big East? Same with Xavier, who had a better resume to join over DePaul. Gonzaga literally has no other option for their conference alignment.

You may be right, and maybe we should focus on dominating the lower Midwest and plains, but I think that would be an even greater risk long-term.

I think you are assuming/acting as if they had no choice after they were left behind.

Was there some rule in Big East expansion that forbade Xavier or Memphis or Butler from subsequently joining a conference together?

If strengthening a league for TV reasons was worthwhile, wouldn't you think at a bare minimum, Butler and Xavier would align themselves in the same conference?  Indianapolis and Cincinnati are almost as close to one another as Chicago and Milwaukee. 



 

[Aughnanure]

I think you are assuming/acting as if they had no choice after they were left behind.

Was there some rule in Big East expansion that forbade Xavier or Memphis or Butler from subsequently joining a conference together?

If strengthening a league for TV reasons was worthwhile, wouldn't you think at a bare minimum, Butler and Xavier would align themselves in the same conference?  Indianapolis and Cincinnati are almost as close to one another as Chicago and Milwaukee. 

Again, you act like those two teams have had that type of recognition for years. Butler has never been more prominent, or powerful, and Xavier has finally their perception above a simple consistent mid-major just recently. Also, you assume that there are no constraints holding these schools from moving around as easily in 2005. Shifting around in 2005 after that realignment is not the same as the type of major shift coming in the next 2-5 years. I mean this as that the field will be more open as ever because so many teams will be left out, so many new alliances and teams can come together that could not before.

Look, I understand what you mean that forming the basketball-only power conference is not necessarily the best option. I guess I just see this as such a seismic shift that schools, especially basketball, will have much more freedom and greater abilities to join wherever and with whomever they want. In this situation, why would you want to join with a bunch of terrible, weaker and les stable athletic schools just for the motivation that you could dominate the league?

[chapman]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/25634463

Blog article by Dennis Dodd.  Suggests TCU is a good fit and also looks at UCF.   Most interesting part is he suggests that they would likely not be invited as basketball members.

[MUBurrow]

I think we should be careful about badmouthing DePaul's place in the BE. We need them more than everyone seems to think.  That Chicago market (and relatively untouched college sports market there) I think is going to keep BE officials salivating.  Don't let the current state of the program fool you, there has been too much harping on DePaul's crappiness and Butler & Xavier's greatness based on recent results.  When it comes to staying power and the things conferences look for, DePaul's chicago location is it. Yes they have problems with their facility, etc, but the opportunity remains there. We need that midwestern tie to keep the milwaukee market relevant to the BE and need to stay DePaul's rival and running partner.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/25634463

Blog article by Dennis Dodd.  Suggests TCU is a good fit and also looks at UCF.   Most interesting part is he suggests that they would likely not be invited as basketball members.

It is interesting.  Would their existing conferences allow them to stay as everything but football (a la Notre Dame)?  If I were their existing conferences, I would say HELL NO. 

[Aughnanure]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/25634463

Blog article by Dennis Dodd.  Suggests TCU is a good fit and also looks at UCF.   Most interesting part is he suggests that they would likely not be invited as basketball members.

Well that's pretty silly. Big East isnt in the greatest power position with the SEC and Big Ten hovering over their shoulder, and TCU knows that. TCU, UCF,Houston and Memphis all deserve to be basketball members...maybe if they invite Temple and ECU that works.

I was reading TCU forums earlier and saw one of them cite an article or quote from a radio station saying Villanova may agree to be the 11th team and join in 2013 or 2014. Which would then mean TCU and UCF/Houston could join now along with a 4th team when Nova is ready for the jump.

I like Nova a lot and Im super jealous they are even able to to consider this, but I really hope they decide not to - With a base of ND, Nova, GTown, St. John's, MU and even Xavier...I think we will always be fine in nearly any realignment. As much as I dont like ND, Im hoping they can get really good soon --they will support the Catholic basketball-only schools' place at the table as long as they can maintain their football powerhouse and national presence.

[Aughnanure]

I think we should be careful about badmouthing DePaul's place in the BE. We need them more than everyone seems to think.  That Chicago market (and relatively untouched college sports market there) I think is going to keep BE officials salivating.  Don't let the current state of the program fool you, there has been too much harping on DePaul's crappiness and Butler & Xavier's greatness based on recent results.  When it comes to staying power and the things conferences look for, DePaul's chicago location is it. Yes they have problems with their facility, etc, but the opportunity remains there. We need that midwestern tie to keep the milwaukee market relevant to the BE and need to stay DePaul's rival and running partner.

+1, Seton Hall is the one that adds nothing.

[GGGG]

It is interesting.  Would their existing conferences allow them to stay as everything but football (a la Notre Dame)?  If I were their existing conferences, I would say HELL NO. 

Yeah, I can't see the Mountain West keeping TCU around for other sports since they are a significant distance away from the rest of the conference as is.  (Especially when they added Boise and Fresno.)  The only reason they were invited into the conference to begin with was because of football.