Big East presidents/ADs meeting this week - expansion?

[NYWarrior]

Expansion a possibility

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_looks_to_expand_bVIhWzOrP6cZkQQWeyjmWM

[brewcity77]

But sources at the league office confirmed there is concern the football members might be considering breaking away.

That is my biggest worry. Granted, there's still plenty of good basketball teams, but losing UConn, Pitt, and West Virginia takes some of the best teams we have, and losing Louisville and Cincy would be disappointing from a rivalry standpoint. I hate to say it, but it almost seems like if the Big East does expand, which it likely needs to do to maintain BCS status, it will need to expand to add as many non-football schools as it does football schools. 20 team basketball league, anyone?

[bilsu]

19 team league would be good. Then you will still have an 18 game basketball schedule and play every team once. Much better than having unbalanced mirror game schedule. Is adding TCU good or bad for Buzz? He already is recruiting in Texas. Adding TCU would appear to help him, but might make other Big East schools more attractive to Texas players.

[Skatastrophy]

It always sucks not having Marquette in the driver's seat for stuff like this.  Bleh...

[ChicosBailBonds]

Expansion a possibility

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/college/football/big_east_looks_to_expand_bVIhWzOrP6cZkQQWeyjmWM

TCU and Houston....hmmm, where did we hear that before.   


Would love to see it, for many reasons, including the Houston addition and Mack Rhoades.

[Golden Avalanche]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

[Clam Crowder]

Providence and St. John's also have no football, but yet the Big East Headquarters is in Providence, and the Big East tournament in Madison Square Garden is directly connected to St. John's being in the Big East

[HoopsMalone]

I would hope that the Big East does not give up on the Chicago area TV market yet.  DePaul and MU both look like they are on the up.  If they add two football teams, great.  DePaul and MU don't get a piece of that money anyway.  Both schools can still add profit to hoops though.  What is really the difference between a 16 and 18 team bball conference anyway? 

It's already probably too big, but giving up the Chicago market would be foolish in my opinion.

Basketball is also on the up in general from my point of view.  The NBA has significantly more excitement than it had 5 years ago.  International ball even seems to get more coverage.  Football may always be king, but the Big East may not way to give up the potential profits from the Chicago media market for basketball quite yet.  The Big East can find ways to make more cash on hoops.  No reason to mess up a good thing.

I would say the same thing about St. John's and the NY market even though they are hoops only.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

From what I've heard, that's mostly the East coast fans chirping, but there is definitely a bias by some fans against the Midwest schools and they voice it all too often for comfort.  I have not heard those rumors from the perspective of the actual universities or the conference, but it doesn't mean it's off the table.  DePaul is certainly doing us no favors with the way they've played the last few years and many schools see us tied at the hip, both in terms of travel and in historic pairings.

I'd love to see Seton Hall get the boot.  They are not committed financially to playing in the Big East.

As said in the past, the conference realignment shuffle is not over by a long shot, regardless of what Canadian Dimes states.  Many more dominoes will fall in the next few years, UNLESS, Notre Dame joins for football.  The chances of that are almost nil, but that would be a God send in so many ways.

At the end of the day, we don't control a lot of our destiny on this stuff.  Football drives the train. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Article on Houston, if invited.

Other articles posted below as well


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/506626-houston-football-if-the-big-east-offers-invite-coogs-must-accept

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/506557-the-big-east-conference-meets-tomorrow-or-fireworks-in-philadelphia

http://www.businessinsider.com/big-east-looks-1000-miles-west-in-expansion-talks-2010-11


http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2010/11/uh_big_east_c-usa.php

[GGGG]

I would hope that the Big East does not give up on the Chicago area TV market yet.  DePaul and MU both look like they are on the up.  If they add two football teams, great.  DePaul and MU don't get a piece of that money anyway.  Both schools can still add profit to hoops though.  What is really the difference between a 16 and 18 team bball conference anyway? 

It's already probably too big, but giving up the Chicago market would be foolish in my opinion.

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

[chren21]

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

Absolutely not. People in Chicago could care less unless tied to Depaul or a big east school. Until Depaul figures a way to get a 13,000 seat stadium built in Lincoln park done they will not draw or be able to recruit the way they should be able to. Don't hold your breath on them getting that done either.

[brewcity77]

But honestly, does DePaul give you the Chicago market?  Maybe 25 years ago, but now?

Give you the market, no, but give you access to it, yes. With recent talks about a Big East network, having DePaul could be nice when it comes to selling the package to ComCast and the like. What they are really looking for is people to watch the network in general, it doesn't have to be DePaul fans, or even Big East fans. If you can put a UConn/Syracuse, or West Virginia/Pitt, or any number of other matches during the week, you'll get interest from basketball fans in general. If I'm home some Wednesday night, I'd sooner watch Duke/Wake Forest or Texas/Oklahoma State if they were on than most of the stuff running on the major networks. I may not be an ACC or Big 12 fan, but there are plenty of games that would still draw my interest, and having access to the Chicago market, I'm guessing they'd be banking more on that than just alums of DePaul. Also, while DePaul may not be what they once were in Chicago, Notre Dame still is. If ND doesn't get the Chicago market, it will still bring in Chicago viewers.

[chren21]

I was responding in terms of the Chicago market caring about Depaul.  But in terms of the network I could not agree more with what brewcity stated.

[Aughnanure]

This will not end well...

[Clam Crowder]

Any reason ur saying that? Or are u just a pessimist?

[Aughnanure]

Im pretty much of the belief that the current conference alignment is only temporary. To think this league will exist in ten years is crazy...5 years max. Under what conference shift, which is coming and was only delayed by Texas this summer, does Marquette end up in an equal or better situation? Simply put, our present situation will not be improved in even the most optimistic scenarios and...... that conference realignments are not too pretty in general. Not to say this is end for MU, but just sad that the current amazing situation will eventually end and not be equaled.

Now, I dont think this will necessarily even dampen our success, but Marquette will mostly likely be in a conference that a)will not be televised nationally as much b) will not be given as much natural respect and c) will not be able to receive national notoriety as often.

[Daniel]

Could make recruiting tougher - we will have to see what pans out.  Hopefully it will be good or MU.

[MUBasketball]

Now, I dont think this will necessarily even dampen our success, but Marquette will mostly likely be in a conference that a)will not be televised nationally as much b) will not be given as much natural respect and c) will not be able to receive national notoriety as often.

I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think things COULD turn out pretty well for MU. Hard to imagine a situation as good as it is now (as you mentioned), but if there is realignment and if MU is split up from the rest of the league, the non-football schools plus Xavier (they would be key) would be a great base for an incredibly competitive league. 10 or 12 would be a great size, and that would be the bulk of the league right there.

It's important to keep in mind that Xavier has had almost unparalleled success over the last decade, despite competing in the A-10. A-10 is a solid league, but not a high major one either. Of course, Memphis and Gonzaga other examples.

Is there a stop to this conference realignment in site? In my scenario, Big East & some A-10 schools would merge. Thus, the A-10 needs to pluck from other conferences....just a never ending cycle.

Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[Tugg Speedman]

Anybody with knowledge heard about the rumor that MU and DePaul were brought up as candidates to be asked to leave during the last round of these talks? Was told that by a buddy back in July and he says its back on the table with the new talks.

Hope Cottingham has Bill Cords right behind him consulting on this.

What happen to the rumour that ND was going to get an ultimatum ... join BE football or get kicked out.  That makes more sense than this rumour.

[GGGG]

What happen to the rumour that ND was going to get an ultimatum ... join BE football or get kicked out.  That makes more sense than this rumour.

Not really.  Having ND around gives the BE some national cache that neither MU nor DePaul bring.  Furthermore, if they continue to agree to schedule BE team's regularly, it gives BE schools marquee football opponents reguarly.  Frankly, ND probably gives you the Chicago market better than De Paul, and my guess is that many view Milwaukee as not worth the effort.

[Marquette84]

I don't know how it all shakes out, but I think things COULD turn out pretty well for MU. Hard to imagine a situation as good as it is now (as you mentioned), but if there is realignment and if MU is split up from the rest of the league, the non-football schools plus Xavier (they would be key) would be a great base for an incredibly competitive league. 10 or 12 would be a great size, and that would be the bulk of the league right there.

It's important to keep in mind that Xavier has had almost unparalleled success over the last decade, despite competing in the A-10. A-10 is a solid league, but not a high major one either. Of course, Memphis and Gonzaga other examples.

Is there a stop to this conference realignment in site? In my scenario, Big East & some A-10 schools would merge. Thus, the A-10 needs to pluck from other conferences....just a never ending cycle.

Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

What is the compelling reason for Xavier to want to leave the current A10, where they have experienced consistent success?  What do you have to gain?

They've made the NCAA tournament in 6 of the last 7 seasons, been in the top half of the bracket in five of them, made deep runs in the tournament, been on TV frequently, been invited to marquee pre-conference tournaments, attracted good recruits, won the league championship 4 straight years, been consistently ranked in the top 25 etc.

Most years, they're going to waltz through their league schedule, which results in a top 15 rank, great tournament seed, and a 25 to 30 win season. 

Butler is another example.  They've perfected the art of playing for rank and seed.  On New Year's Day, Butler wasn't ranked (not even receiving votes).  By season's end, they were #10 in one poll, #15 in the other--and they never even played another ranked team! 

Despite the fact that they played in the lowly Horizon league, they received a favorable #5 seed, which they parlayed into a deep NCAA run.

Butler or Xavier could join a conference with the BE teams, and likely wind up with fewer wins overall, a slightly lower rank (based on more losses), and a hope on selection day that their stronger schedule is enough to pull them into the tournament, probably with a lower seed than they're used to receiving. 

I'm hard pressed to see any substantial benefit for Xavier or Butler to give up the situation they have now to join a more competitive league where the best case is they will share the stage with MU, Villanova and Georgetown (and possibly St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul)--and at worst might get pushed off. 

[Aughnanure]

What is the compelling reason for Xavier to want to leave the current A10, where they have experienced consistent success?  What do you have to gain?

They've made the NCAA tournament in 6 of the last 7 seasons, been in the top half of the bracket in five of them, made deep runs in the tournament, been on TV frequently, been invited to marquee pre-conference tournaments, attracted good recruits, won the league championship 4 straight years, been consistently ranked in the top 25 etc.

Most years, they're going to waltz through their league schedule, which results in a top 15 rank, great tournament seed, and a 25 to 30 win season. 

Butler is another example.  They've perfected the art of playing for rank and seed.  On New Year's Day, Butler wasn't ranked (not even receiving votes).  By season's end, they were #10 in one poll, #15 in the other--and they never even played another ranked team! 

Despite the fact that they played in the lowly Horizon league, they received a favorable #5 seed, which they parlayed into a deep NCAA run.

Butler or Xavier could join a conference with the BE teams, and likely wind up with fewer wins overall, a slightly lower rank (based on more losses), and a hope on selection day that their stronger schedule is enough to pull them into the tournament, probably with a lower seed than they're used to receiving. 

I'm hard pressed to see any substantial benefit for Xavier or Butler to give up the situation they have now to join a more competitive league where the best case is they will share the stage with MU, Villanova and Georgetown (and possibly St. Johns, Seton Hall, Providence and DePaul)--and at worst might get pushed off. 

Its beneficial because they will make more money. Your argument on pure basketball success is valid, but they would make more money in a league with Nova, GTown, ND, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, DePaul, etc then they would in the Horizon League or A10. A10 and Horizon really has no national names (outside of Butler and Xavier, if you consider them that high) and this league will arguably have more than 5 well-known nationally respected names....which equals more TV dollars.

[monkeyman34]

I would say a conference of G'town, Prov, St. Johns, Nova, MU, ND, Depaul, Butler, and Xavier would be a pretty solid basketball conference.  Playing everyone twice, with the conference tourny at the end of the season.  Possibly add a 10th team (Dayton, SLU, Temple, UMass, Valpo, Cleveland State, Wright State, UWM -- I picked those teams b/c they hold 10K + in their basketball arenas, with UMass at 9 1/2 ) and have an 18 game conference schedule. 

[kmwtrucks]

My Worry would be the Big East football schools would add 3 or 4 (depending on Vill) and then bounce 3-4 of the basketball schools.  In that Situation Gtown, ND, Nova, and ST johns would be safe which would leave Depaul, MU, Prov, Seton Hall possible on the outside.  I think if they only bounced 2 teams we would make it, 3 or 4 I think we would be on the outs.