Hydroxychloroquinine updates (and other potential treatments)

[forgetful]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true

What a mess this whole things has become.  Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.

I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus

This must and is being investigated. If the authors of this article did fabricate data, they should all be arrested for fraud, and jailed for a very long time. All employees of surgisphere that were aware of the fraud should be charged as co-conspirators.

All should also be stripped of their medical licenses and banned from practicing medicine ever again.

Looking into the background, something shady went on here. Either, the company illegitimately accessing patient data, or complete fabrication. I'm certain we will find out, given that serious jail time is likely possible.

One complaint against the accusation and the article listed. I was curious about who was involved in this company, they suggest that one person was an "adult model". That also bothers me. Looking up the employees, it appears that the individual in question worked as a promoter for marketing companies, and a promoter at trades shows, in addition to working as a medical technician. They seem to be legitimate in marketing and working hard to have a solid career. This accusation of an "adult model" may well ruin their career/life and they almost assuredly had no role in any malfeasance.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

This must and is being investigated. If the authors of this article did fabricate data, they should all be arrested for fraud, and jailed for a very long time. All employees of surgisphere that were aware of the fraud should be charged as co-conspirators.

All should also be stripped of their medical licenses and banned from practicing medicine ever again.

Looking into the background, something shady went on here. Either, the company illegitimately accessing patient data, or complete fabrication. I'm certain we will find out, given that serious jail time is likely possible.

One complaint against the accusation and the article listed. I was curious about who was involved in this company, they suggest that one person was an "adult model". That also bothers me. Looking up the employees, it appears that the individual in question worked as a promoter for marketing companies, and a promoter at trades shows, in addition to working as a medical technician. They seem to be legitimate in marketing and working hard to have a solid career. This accusation of an "adult model" may well ruin their career/life and they almost assuredly had no role in any malfeasance.

She hot?

[MU82]

Unfortunately, the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug did not prevent COVID-19 from infecting patients.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-trump.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200603&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30002&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

The malaria drug hydroxychloroquine did not prevent Covid-19 in a rigorous study of 821 people who had been exposed to patients infected with the virus, researchers from the University of Minnesota and Canada are reporting on Wednesday.

The study was the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine, a drug that President Trump has repeatedly promoted and recently taken himself. Conducted in the United States and Canada, this trial was the first to test whether the drug could prevent illness in people who have been exposed to the coronavirus. This type of study, in which patients are picked at random to receive either an experimental treatment or a placebo, is considered the most reliable way to measure the safety and effectiveness of a drug. The participants were health care workers and people who had been exposed at home to ill spouses, partners or parents.

“The take-home message for the general public is that if you’re exposed to someone with Covid-19, hydroxychloroquine is not an effective post-exposure, preventive therapy,” the lead author of the study, Dr. David R. Boulware, from the University of Minnesota, said in an interview.

The results are published in The New England Journal of Medicine.

“If we could find something that would ameliorate infection, block it or make it milder after a solid exposure, that would be quite wonderful,” said Dr. Judith Feinberg, the vice chairwoman for research in medicine at West Virginia University. “What we want to do is limit the number of cases. There was great hope riding on this.”

[WarriorDad]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/covid-19-surgisphere-who-world-health-organization-hydroxychloroquine?__twitter_impression=true

What a mess this whole things has become.  Now appears there are signs of significant data errors in the Lancet study and a couple others that were used as evidence to shut down hydroxy trials.

I no longer have the energy to argue for or against the use of this drug but am incredibly discouraged by the general discourse and “unbiased“ efforts of our medical community in giving the public honest analysis and hope that they’re working to find a fix to this virus

I mentioned this the other day.  Coming unraveled.  WHO resuming testing today because they found the Lancet’s findings unfounded related to adverse medical effects using this treatment.  Surgisphere produces research results out of thin air.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/


Fishy. https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-the-lancet-observational-study-surgisphere/

[wadesworld]

I mentioned this the other day.  Coming unraveled.  WHO resuming testing today because they found the Lancet’s findings unfounded related to adverse medical effects using this treatment.  Surgisphere produces research results out of thin air.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/03/who-resuming-hydroxychloroquine-study-for-covid-19/


Fishy. https://science.thewire.in/the-sciences/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-the-lancet-observational-study-surgisphere/

Good thing we cut funding to the WHO. What good could they do this world right now?

[Mutaman]

The amount of incompetence we've seen over the last few months is mind boggling.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The amount of incompetence we've seen over the last few months is mind boggling.

But eminently foreseeable. The only thing in his entire life that Trump has been competent at is self-promotion, but it turns out that neither viruses nor civil unrest give a crap about self-promotion.

[WarriorDad]

Unfortunately, the first controlled clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine showed that the drug did not prevent COVID-19 from infecting patients.

Unfortunately, they didn't include Zinc in combination with Hydroxychloroquinine in their testing.  This is where the key anecdotal beneficial results have been shown.  Fortunately, other tests are underway that do include that combination.

[Hards Alumni]

Unfortunately, they didn't include Zinc in combination with Hydroxychloroquinine in their testing.  This is where the key anecdotal beneficial results have been shown.  Fortunately, other tests are underway that do include that combination.

Aaaaactually, they did include Zinc and Vitamin C in their testing, but it wasn't double blinded.. but to find that out, you'd have had to have read the appendix.  I won't fault you for that since it is absolutely buried.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/suppl/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638/suppl_file/nejmoa2016638_appendix.pdf

This observational comparisons may suffer from confounding by indication, in that those
who deemed themselves at highest risk of developing infection may have been more likely to
additionally take either zinc or vitamin C. Regardless, there was no suggestion that zinc added
to hydroxychloroquine had additional benefit. Among those randomized to hydroxychloroquine,
those taking zinc had a 15.0% incidence of nnew Covid-19 versus 10.8% incidence of new
Covid-19 without self-reported zinc use.

But then there is this caveat:

The exact details of zinc formulation, dose, and duration were
not queried, so this is not conclusive information.

Additionally, I have a number of problems with the study on its face. 
-people given HCQ were not confirmed to have COVID19, they just had contact or lived with people that had the disease.

Persons with symptoms of Covid-19 or with PCR-proven SARS-CoV-2 infection were excluded from this prevention trial but were separately enrolled in a companion clinical trial to treat early infection.

-self reporting (smh), self administration (smh)
Adherence among the trial participants was moderate. Full adherence to the trial intervention differed according to trial group, with 75.4% of participants in the hydroxychloroquine group (312 of 414) and 82.6% of those in the placebo group (336 of 407) having taken all 19 prescribed tablets over a period of 5 days (P=0.01).

then there is this:

The most common reason that participants stopped taking the assigned hydroxychloroquine or placebo was side effects (17 participants in the hydroxychloroquine group and 8 in the placebo group). Side effects were more frequent with hydroxychloroquine than with placebo

PERSONALLY, I think this study should NOT be used as evidence against or for HCQ administration in suspected COVID19 patients.  Light it on fire.

I'd tell you to draw your own conclusions, but lord knows I don't have to.

[GooooMarquette]

The Lancet formally retracted its paper today, given the aforementioned flaws in the data.

Fortunately there are enough trials in progress that we can still get a reasonable handle on the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID once and for all.

[rocket surgeon]

The Lancet formally retracted its paper today, given the aforementioned flaws in the data.

Fortunately there are enough trials in progress that we can still get a reasonable handle on the use of hydroxychloroquine for COVID once and for all.

This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy.  I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith.   He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool


https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen

[MU82]

I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith.

Please show a scientific study verifying this fact, rocket.

I'm skeptical, but I'm certainly not saying it's impossible. I just haven't seen any facts to back up your thesis. So I'd really like to see some, if you would be so kind.

Thanks.

[Hards Alumni]

This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy.  I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith.   He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool


https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen

He's a charlatan.  It'd be like you naming your office, the Rocket Surgeon Dental Institute.

Cheeks brought him up earlier in this thread.

[forgetful]

This should hit the airwaves with the same veracity that the original story came out with, right rockee ole buddy.  I think more people died not given the chance to be treated properly with hydroxychloroquine under qualified care of those who have been successfully treating their patients with it like dr Steven Smith.   He seems pretty qualified having the clinic named after him is kinda cool


https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/05/lancet-had-to-do-one-of-the-biggest-retractions-in-modern-history-how-could-this-happen

Rocket, you can see my previous post on this. I am appalled by the paper that was published, but your statements are not supported by the existing science.

There has now been a controlled study of the efficacy of HCQ for treating/preventing COVID, linked a bit earlier in this thread. It found that it has no effect. There are also separate studies from Brazil, Sweden, France, and the VA where they found no benefit (in some cases increased risk of death and serious side effects) from HCQ treatment.

Also, there were ongoing clinical trials, and still are, in the US. The thing with clinical trials when there is a serious disease like COVID running rampant, if there is clear benefit, they will push the medication out. If there are clear and obvious issues (without benefits), they will cease the trials. Based on the responses from the FDA/CDC, it would appear that at best, HCQ is showing no effect.

Still appalled by the article, but your statement that "people are dying" by not being given the chance is unfounded. The medication should still not be being given outside of a clinical trial, or hospital setting because of known adverse risks/outcomes.

[GooooMarquette]

Rocket, you can see my previous post on this. I am appalled by the paper that was published, but your statements are not supported by the existing science.

There has now been a controlled study of the efficacy of HCQ for treating/preventing COVID, linked a bit earlier in this thread. It found that it has no effect. There are also separate studies from Brazil, Sweden, France, and the VA where they found no benefit (in some cases increased risk of death and serious side effects) from HCQ treatment.

Also, there were ongoing clinical trials, and still are, in the US. The thing with clinical trials when there is a serious disease like COVID running rampant, if there is clear benefit, they will push the medication out. If there are clear and obvious issues (without benefits), they will cease the trials. Based on the responses from the FDA/CDC, it would appear that at best, HCQ is showing no effect.

Still appalled by the article, but your statement that "people are dying" by not being given the chance is unfounded. The medication should still not be being given outside of a clinical trial, or hospital setting because of known adverse risks/outcomes.

Spot on, forgetful.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Hydroxy

https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/05/hydroxychloroquine-had-no-benefit-for-hospitalized-covid-19-patients-possibly-closing-door-to-use-of-drug/

[pbiflyer]

I am sure that the pro HCQ folks will point to the myriad of peer reviewed positive studies that show the benefits Of the drug.

[pbiflyer]

Effect of Convalescent Plasma Therapy on Time to Clinical Improvement in Patients With Severe and Life-threatening COVID-19
A Randomized Clinical Trial
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2766943


Question  What is the effect of convalescent plasma therapy added to standard treatment, compared with standard treatment alone, on clinical outcomes in patients with severe or life-threatening coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)?

Finding  In this randomized clinical trial that included 103 patients and was terminated early, the hazard ratio for time to clinical improvement within 28 days in the convalescent plasma group vs the standard treatment group was 1.40 and was not statistically significant.

Meaning  Among patients with severe or life-threatening COVID-19, convalescent plasma therapy added to standard treatment did not significantly improve the time to clinical improvement within 28 days, although the trial was terminated early and may have been underpowered to detect a clinically important difference.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

A synthetic antibody treatment.

https://www.barrons.com/articles/regenerons-antibody-cocktail-against-covid-starts-human-trials-51591886792?mod=bol-social-fb

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Super-Antibodies....

https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-15339594.php

[Warriors4ever]

Would you mind giving brief summaries if you’re posting links that are behind paywalls, please? Thanks.

[Man Clam Chow]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP

[MU82]

The Food and Drug Administration said Monday that it was revoking emergency authorization of hydroxycloroquine to treat Covid-19, saying it's “unlikely to be effective.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/15/world/coronavirus-live-updates.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200615&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=headline&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=30949&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fda-revokes-authorization-for-hydroxychloroquine-2020-06-15

[GooooMarquette]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rare-super-coronavirus-antibodies-likely-to-yield-vaccine-say-stanford-ucsf-experts/ar-BB15v6PP

It appears that those “super“ antibodies are the ones being tested for in the serological test announced by the Mayo Clinic recently.

https://www.kaaltv.com/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-for-covid-19/5758799/

[wadesworld]

It appears that those “super“ antibodies are the ones being tested for in the serological test announced by the Mayo Clinic recently.

https://www.kaaltv.com/coronavirus/mayo-clinic-launches-neutralizing-antibody-test-for-covid-19/5758799/

Science has always been a weakness of mine but the fact that two different organizations are testing it would seem to be a great sign?