Oso planning to go pro
TAMU was talking about Deane's last 4 years and Wojo's last 4 years. Unlike Deane -- who was handed Miller, Eford, McCaskill, Pieper and Abraham from a team that went to the S16 under K.O. -- Wojo had some rebuilding to do in Year 1. In his fifth and final year, Deane won 14 games, finished last in Conference USA American division and recruited terribly; Wojo won 23 games, finished second in the Big East and already has snagged a 4-star recruit and a transfer big. Deane was clearly trending down in Year 5, Wojo was clearly trending up.Game ... set ... match.
If Wojo has a year like Mike Deane this year, Wojo won’t be back.
Yep, and none of us even got into creepy Deane getting drunk and trying to pick up 20-year-olds.It's such a silly comparison that it should be way beneath guru ... but when you strongly dislike a coach or athlete as guru strongly dislikes Wojo, you get desperate to twist facts and make a case that isn't there.Mike Deane. That's hilarious.
Hmmm...1994–95 Marquette 21–12 1995–96 Marquette 23–8 1996–97 Marquette 22–9 1997–98 Marquette 20–11Those were Mike Deane's first four years at MU...No matter how many times I add it up..I get 86 wins..which is ACTUALLY 2 more than Wojo had after 4 years.
I will leave this here...in another thread, Tower said people don't fire Coaches that have won 84 games in 4 years like Wojo has.
Now let's look at these next column(s) side by side...Coach ALow majorConf record([1stLast four years)..... 10-4 (2nd) 9-5 (4th) 8-8 (4th) 6-10 (6th)Post Season(1stLast four years) NCAA 2nd round NCAA 1st round NIT Quarterfinals No PostseasonCoach BHigh MajorConf record(1stLast 4 years) 8-10 (7th) 10-8 (T-3rd) 9-9 (T-6th) 12-6 (2nd)Post season (1stLast 4 years) None NCAA Round 1 NIT Quarters NCAA Round 1
So...To recap...In the first 4 years...Deane had more overall wins..Higher finishes in the conference ALL 4 years, more post season success(whether you want to say the NIT matters or not, some here use that FOR Wojo)....Yet...Deane got fired...again..Deane was better in EVERY meaningful area than Wojo was his first 4 years..You are under the table for Wojo...and yet say it didn't take stones to fire Deane, it took logic?? Based on EVERY meaningful criteria that every Wojo backer here uses to SUPPORT Wojo, Deane was better. It took STONES to fire Deane...If all you can come back with is "uhhhh well, uhhh Wojo's trendline is better, and uhhh it's a stronger conference", that's moving the goalposts 110%. So...if it took "logic" to fire Deane...being better in EVERY area(and Coaching aspect isn't even close), then it it definitely is/was MORE than logical to fire Wojo.
Do you need any more lessons, young man?? I'd be happy to teach you, like I just did here..took yo uto school...consider it post college education Anyone else that chimes in...save all your weak ass arguments..you have NONE. ZERO, ZILCH. The numbers don't lie. Game...set...match.
TAMUI do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.
Butler and Xavier would be counter-examples to this. They change coaches frequently, and the replacement is often simply the promotion of an assistant. Lets take Xavier: I don't know if they are considered "elite level", but with 19 NCAA appearances over the past 25 years, including 3 Elite Eights and 4 Sweet 16s, I would call that "winning year in and year out." And they did it without a long tenured coach.When Pete Gillen left, they hired former assistant Skip Prosser after a 1 year stint at Loyola MD. When Prosser left, they hired Thad Matta from Butler--their only true outside hire in the past 25 years. When Matta left they promoted Sean Miller. When Miller left, they promoted Chris Mack. When Mack left they promoted Travis Steele. And I don't think they ever navel gazed over who they should hire from the outside, should it be a top-level assistant or a rising mid-major coach, whether they were experienced enough, or prestigious enough or won enough. Maybe its splitting hairs, but I don't see a single long-tenured coach as necessary. You can get the same kind of continuity if you hire from your own coaching and playing ranks.
You seemed to have forgotten the conversation we were having. Let me remind you. You posted this:The 84 games Wojo has won have come in the last 4 years, not his first 4 years. Since you brought this up and started comparing him to Deane, I compared Dean's last 4 years to Wojo's last 4. Wojo won 5 more games in his last 4 years than Deane did, despite playing in a much tougher conference. Also, Wojo's best season came in the final of those seasons (trending up) while Deane's worst season came in the final season (trending down)I made some edits to properly reflect what we were talking about.Numbers don't lie....but is it lying when you present them in a way that doesn't show the whole picture? Cause it seems like you intentionally removed Deane's worst year (which was also his last) and Wojo's best year (which was also his last). You also are equating Conference USA to the Big East, which if anyone else was doing you would call them a moron.No goalposts have been shifted. You just ignored the only thing that matters when judging a coach. Is he improving the program as he goes along? Or making it worse? Wojo took over a team that missed the postseason and lost 6/7 of its top players in minutes played and now has teams capable of earning 5 seeds in the NCAA tournament. Deane took over a team coming of a Sweet 16 that did lose three key players but kept everyone else and in 5 years managed to piss it all away.You keep wanting to ignore trend because you know it defeats your argument. Since you like Deane/Wojo comparison, how about another comparison?Coach A First Six Years:118-73 record (.617)44-54 conference record (.448)No PostseasonNIT FinalsNIT QuarterfinalsNCAA (Elite Eight)NCAA (Sweet 16)NCAA (Round of 32)Coach B Full 6 Years:127-79 record (.617)59-49 conference record (.546)No Postseason (due to postseason ban, would have been a high seed)NCAA (National Champions)NIT First RoundNCAA (Second Round)No PostseasonNo PostseasonSince you say numbers don't lie, you would have to say Coach B is the better coach. Same record, better conference record, national championship trumps Elite Eight and Sweet 16, sure Coach A has one more NIT instead of a no postseason but who cares about the NIT?I think most people would notice that Coach A started poorly and then built his program into a yearly contender whereas Coach B started really strong (likely with their predecessor's recruits) and then started tanking the program. I would go with Coach A.If you didn't guess already, Coach A is Jim Calhoun, Coach B is Kevin Ollie.I think I am good. But I would like to hear your justification on how a recruiting class of Krunti Hester was evidence that Deane's recruiting was trending up.
Deane also had said that Marquette fans should be content with occasional trips to the dance. Wojo's statements indicate he is not willing to settle for such mediocrity. Still has work to do, but has higher expectations for the program. Shocking that you would celebrate someone willing to settle for mediocrity and criticize someone with higher goals he is working toward.
Wojo should be held to the standard of Crean and Buzz (our two most successful coaches since Al) and he hasn’t been so far. Saying he’s better than Deane is faint praise.
We were not in a "middling" conference back then. In Deane's last year, CUSA was third in conference RPI - ahead of both the ACC and the Big East. Ended the year with four NCAA bids - same as the Pac 10 and one more than the ACC.
At the time Deane made that comment, he might not have been far off. We were in a middling conference, had crap facilities, and aside from a brief revival courtesy of KO, it had been 20 years since we’d been any good. I wholeheartedly disagree with what he said, but I can see where he was coming from. Thankfully we got rid of him and brought in a coach who knew we could be more.Wojo’s comments on the subject of postseason success have been guarded at best. He’s talked about how “the only expectations I care about are the expectations we have internally” and also said, “This is a program that will win a lot of games in March.” In the recent Athletic article, he basically restated that second one and added, “It just hasn’t happened yet,” while not giving any sort of timeline on when it would, lest he paint himself into a corner. Sure, he wants to win postseason games, but given the resources we have now as opposed to where we were under Deane, that’s the expectation.While I do believe Wojo is better than Deane, he’s building a similar culture: Recruit well-behaved student athletes who make the dance occasionally. Wojo should be held to the standard of Crean and Buzz (our two most successful coaches since Al) and he hasn’t been so far. Saying he’s better than Deane is faint praise.
Here's what I think the Wojo supporters fail to get...Both Crean and Buzz had better first 5 years than Wojo has...yet, no one seems to care about that(or they say it's irrelevant for some reason). Wojo doesn't seem to be held to that same standard.
For some reason, some fans have seem to fallen into that "recruits good kids that make the dance occasionally" trap. Suddenly that's acceptable, since that's part of the refrain they always recite when judging Wojo.
Here's what I think the Wojo supporters fail to get...Both Crean and Buzz had better first 5 years than Wojo has...yet, no one seems to care about that(or they say it's irrelevant for some reason). Wojo doesn't seem to be held to that same standard. For some reason, some fans have seem to fallen into that "recruits good kids that make the dance occasionally" trap. Suddenly that's acceptable, since that's part of the refrain they always recite when judging Wojo. It's also acceptable to the administration seemingly. The apathy surrounding the program from the outside is noticeable, and it's sad.Here's the deal...I want to unite us all...have us all want the same thing...so here's my offer to the fellow scoopers...if Wojo wins a National Championship in the next two years, you will not see me ever again(be on too much of a high the rest of my life to care about anything else, especially posting). Plus...and this is sincere, I will throw in a pair(unworn) of MU powder blue air Jordan low's(to one lucky scooper) that they were selling a couple of years ago..Now...I hope you will all join me in rooting for MU to win the Natty in the next couple of years...they win, we ALL win!
For some reason, some fans have seem to fallen into that "recruits good kids that make the dance occasionally" trap. Suddenly that's acceptable, since that's part of the refrain they always recite when judging Wojo. It's also acceptable to the administration seemingly. The apathy surrounding the program from the outside is noticeable, and it's sad.
Here's the deal...I want to unite us all...have us all want the same thing...so here's my offer to the fellow scoopers...if Wojo wins a National Championship in the next two years, you will not see me ever again(be on too much of a high the rest of my life to care about anything else, especially posting).
Plus...and this is sincere, I will throw in a pair(unworn) of MU powder blue air Jordan low's(to one lucky scooper) that they were selling a couple of years ago.
Now...I hope you will all join me in rooting for MU to win the Natty in the next couple of years...they win, we ALL win!
Wojo had no rebuilding to do in year one. He threw Deonte Burton, who played in the NBA this year under the bus. John Dawson who has played in the G League was part of the collateral damage as well. All self inflicted wounds. Ners has documented all this in great depth in case you need more detail.
Nice attempt to deflect from being totally schooled by TAMU and others on the ridiculous Deane comparisons, even if this new post also makes strawman arguments. You keep making various "bets" that involve you never posting on Scoop again. I don't want that and I don't think most others do, either. We just want you to make sense when you do post, and to not post with such an obvious agenda.We certainly agree on wanting the Warriors to be great again.
Okay, for all of you "you must be patient" people..Let's say Wojo is here another 5 years, and produces relatively the same results as the first 5...now it's been 10 years, and where has it gotten you?? What I'm saying is..regardless of HIS or anyone's trend line(which so many use as gospel here), that doesn't guarantee you squat about how the future will play out with him. That's why I find it ironic, that the people that say patience is the way to go, yet point to his trend line like that is some "magical" future telling device. It's not.Sometimes, you just have to go with your gut, don't you?? Either this guy is going to take us where we ultimately want to go, or he isn't. That can be done after 3 years, 4 years 5 years etc. You have to just "feel" it. What if this is Wojo's ceiling, and he still gets another 3-4 years(minimum). Then what?/ You have essentially wasted at least those last 3-4 years, hoping you'd find a unicorn, when if you would have acted sooner, you would have been able to recover quicker.