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Author Topic: A macro view of P6 coaches  (Read 8849 times)

Silent Verbal

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #175 on: June 16, 2019, 04:17:53 PM »
Markus got hurt.  Hausers torpedoed.

When I see posts like this, I think, “Jesus Christ, somebody has to say something.”

Call me “Mr. Hauser” or accuse me of not being a “true fan” or whatever, but to say that the Hausers, specifically Sam, tanked the season is just a big fat load of BS.  In the loss at Seton Hall, Sam played all 40 minutes, went 9 of 19 from the floor, scored 25 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds.  He was indispensable in that game, but yeah, he definitely tanked it.  He went for 10 and 7 in the blowout of STJ, was 7 of 15 with 22pts and 9 rebounds in the Seton Hall BET game, and played 37 minutes against Murray State while putting up 16 points and grabbing 10 boards.  But yeah, he definitely missed all the shots he missed on purpose.

Joey hit the freshman wall, but still averaged 10 points a game for the season.  If he was still on the team, people would be talking about the huge leap he’d be taking as a sophomore.  Instead, he conspired with Sam to help us lose 6 of our last 7.  If Dexter has a bad second half next year, we’ll know what happened!

Your post takes all the blame off Wojo and Markus and uses the excuses of an injury we don’t know the severity of (and that the player played through while he and the coach maximized his usage) and two players purposely playing bad (even though one of them didn’t) because they were unhappy with their roles.  I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of what happened.

Silent Verbal

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #176 on: June 16, 2019, 04:32:38 PM »
That's why I'm not making that argument. I'm not saying those losses don't count. They do. That's why the salient point was this:

Yes, we went out behind the woodshed, but I left you bloody and beaten. You tried to revise history. I called that BS. Your response was to focus on the BS, not the actual argument. Good god, man, you make this too easy.

Should Wojo have done better? Yes. Frankly, he should have sat Markus. But he's a young coach. He's learning. He's proven he can elevate a team. And he's earned the rope to continue showing he can improve and learn.

That's the point. That's why debating Louisville, at Creighton, at Villanova, Creighton, at Seton Hall, and at Georgetown as reverse results is a fool's errand. And both you & RR were all too happy to play that fool.

Where in my post did I reverse results?  I said we won a few games we shouldn’t have, which isn’t the same thing as discounting those wins.  In every season in every sport, you’re gonna win some you shouldn’t and lose some you shouldn’t, too.  The Georgetown game is an example of one we shouldn’t have lost, but Akinjo morphed into Steph Curry and so it went.  Everything usually evens out in the end, just like it did for us.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 04:37:22 PM by Research Report »

Lennys Tap

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #177 on: June 16, 2019, 04:47:33 PM »
When I see posts like this, I think, “Jesus Christ, somebody has to say something.”

Call me “Mr. Hauser” or accuse me of not being a “true fan” or whatever, but to say that the Hausers, specifically Sam, tanked the season is just a big fat load of BS.  In the loss at Seton Hall, Sam played all 40 minutes, went 9 of 19 from the floor, scored 25 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds.  He was indispensable in that game, but yeah, he definitely tanked it.  He went for 10 and 7 in the blowout of STJ, was 7 of 15 with 22pts and 9 rebounds in the Seton Hall BET game, and played 37 minutes against Murray State while putting up 16 points and grabbing 10 boards.  But yeah, he definitely missed all the shots he missed on purpose.

Joey hit the freshman wall, but still averaged 10 points a game for the season.  If he was still on the team, people would be talking about the huge leap he’d be taking as a sophomore.  Instead, he conspired with Sam to help us lose 6 of our last 7.  If Dexter has a bad second half next year, we’ll know what happened!

Your post takes all the blame off Wojo and Markus and uses the excuses of an injury we don’t know the severity of (and that the player played through while he and the coach maximized his usage) and two players purposely playing bad (even though one of them didn’t) because they were unhappy with their roles.  I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of what happened.

+1

muguru

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #178 on: June 16, 2019, 05:12:29 PM »
When I see posts like this, I think, “Jesus Christ, somebody has to say something.”

Call me “Mr. Hauser” or accuse me of not being a “true fan” or whatever, but to say that the Hausers, specifically Sam, tanked the season is just a big fat load of BS.  In the loss at Seton Hall, Sam played all 40 minutes, went 9 of 19 from the floor, scored 25 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds.  He was indispensable in that game, but yeah, he definitely tanked it.  He went for 10 and 7 in the blowout of STJ, was 7 of 15 with 22pts and 9 rebounds in the Seton Hall BET game, and played 37 minutes against Murray State while putting up 16 points and grabbing 10 boards.  But yeah, he definitely missed all the shots he missed on purpose.

Joey hit the freshman wall, but still averaged 10 points a game for the season.  If he was still on the team, people would be talking about the huge leap he’d be taking as a sophomore.  Instead, he conspired with Sam to help us lose 6 of our last 7.  If Dexter has a bad second half next year, we’ll know what happened!

Your post takes all the blame off Wojo and Markus and uses the excuses of an injury we don’t know the severity of (and that the player played through while he and the coach maximized his usage) and two players purposely playing bad (even though one of them didn’t) because they were unhappy with their roles.  I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of what happened.

+1
“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

brewcity77

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #179 on: June 16, 2019, 05:26:16 PM »
Oh reading comprehension...

Wojo's coaching needs work but has improved consistently.

The talent level is fine. Wojo has done well landing top-100 players regularly, has hit big on some transfers, and is getting quality out of his three stars (John, Anim, Elliott, Cain).

My point in talking about subpar coaching and talent is that YOU are making that argument. I don't agree, largely because if both were true, the results we've seen would be impossible.

Brad Brownell is a really odd example. Barring absolute disaster, he will be the winningest coach in Clemson history by January. They are traditionally a bad program and Oliver Purnell is seriously one of their most successful coaches ever. They aren't worth comparing to Marquette.

Herman Cain

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #180 on: June 16, 2019, 05:54:03 PM »


 Watchin' Blueteaux orr da First Warrior is like shovin' a glass rod up yo johnson and hittin' it with a hammer, hey?
the visual on that is horrible.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #181 on: June 16, 2019, 05:55:00 PM »
When I see posts like this, I think, “Jesus Christ, somebody has to say something.”

Call me “Mr. Hauser” or accuse me of not being a “true fan” or whatever, but to say that the Hausers, specifically Sam, tanked the season is just a big fat load of BS.  In the loss at Seton Hall, Sam played all 40 minutes, went 9 of 19 from the floor, scored 25 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds.  He was indispensable in that game, but yeah, he definitely tanked it.  He went for 10 and 7 in the blowout of STJ, was 7 of 15 with 22pts and 9 rebounds in the Seton Hall BET game, and played 37 minutes against Murray State while putting up 16 points and grabbing 10 boards.  But yeah, he definitely missed all the shots he missed on purpose.

Joey hit the freshman wall, but still averaged 10 points a game for the season.  If he was still on the team, people would be talking about the huge leap he’d be taking as a sophomore.  Instead, he conspired with Sam to help us lose 6 of our last 7.  If Dexter has a bad second half next year, we’ll know what happened!

Your post takes all the blame off Wojo and Markus and uses the excuses of an injury we don’t know the severity of (and that the player played through while he and the coach maximized his usage) and two players purposely playing bad (even though one of them didn’t) because they were unhappy with their roles.  I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of what happened.


Thanks Mr. Hauser.  Tell me, is the old lady in Virginia or Michigan tonight to tuck in one of her boys?  Does the one left out cry himself to sleep?  I'm sure she knitted him a nick blanket to help him cope.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Lennys Tap

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #182 on: June 16, 2019, 06:03:17 PM »

Thanks Mr. Hauser.  Tell me, is the old lady in Virginia or Michigan tonight to tuck in one of her boys?  Does the one left out cry himself to sleep?  I'm sure she knitted him a nick blanket to help him cope.

Do you keep your whiddle fluffy blue monster with your blankie?

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #183 on: June 16, 2019, 06:07:03 PM »
Do you keep your whiddle fluffy blue monster with your blankie?

I don't need a blanket.  I'm not a Hauser boy who runs home to momma.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Silent Verbal

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #184 on: June 16, 2019, 06:23:17 PM »

Thanks Mr. Hauser.  Tell me, is the old lady in Virginia or Michigan tonight to tuck in one of her boys?  Does the one left out cry himself to sleep?  I'm sure she knitted him a nick blanket to help him cope.

This is an odd and somewhat disturbing post.  You realize I’m not actually Mr. Hauser, right?  And that throwing personal, non-basketball related insults at the Hauser family doesn’t actually matter to me, right?  If you want to insult the Hausers on a personal level, I think it’s kind of messed up and makes Marquette fans look bad, but hey, be my guest.  If you want to say the Hausers tanked the season because it’ll convince someone somewhere that Wojo was in no way at fault for the collapse, well, that’s just false and if I see it, I’ll put in my two cents.

Cheeks

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #185 on: June 16, 2019, 06:25:25 PM »
When I see posts like this, I think, “Jesus Christ, somebody has to say something.”

Call me “Mr. Hauser” or accuse me of not being a “true fan” or whatever, but to say that the Hausers, specifically Sam, tanked the season is just a big fat load of BS.  In the loss at Seton Hall, Sam played all 40 minutes, went 9 of 19 from the floor, scored 25 points, and grabbed 9 rebounds.  He was indispensable in that game, but yeah, he definitely tanked it.  He went for 10 and 7 in the blowout of STJ, was 7 of 15 with 22pts and 9 rebounds in the Seton Hall BET game, and played 37 minutes against Murray State while putting up 16 points and grabbing 10 boards.  But yeah, he definitely missed all the shots he missed on purpose.

Joey hit the freshman wall, but still averaged 10 points a game for the season.  If he was still on the team, people would be talking about the huge leap he’d be taking as a sophomore.  Instead, he conspired with Sam to help us lose 6 of our last 7.  If Dexter has a bad second half next year, we’ll know what happened!

Your post takes all the blame off Wojo and Markus and uses the excuses of an injury we don’t know the severity of (and that the player played through while he and the coach maximized his usage) and two players purposely playing bad (even though one of them didn’t) because they were unhappy with their roles.  I don’t think that’s a fair assessment of what happened.

Where did Tower say they tanked anything?  Torpedoed doesn’t equal tanking.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Cheeks

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #186 on: June 16, 2019, 06:26:17 PM »
Guru....so he made adjustments, just not the ones you can identify or want to give him credit for.  To use your words...NEVER has he done so.   Got it.

Have a wonderful Father’s Day
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
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Silent Verbal

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #187 on: June 16, 2019, 06:33:49 PM »
Where did Tower say they tanked anything?  Torpedoed doesn’t equal tanking.

Please explain the difference.

muguru

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #188 on: June 16, 2019, 06:34:09 PM »
Oh reading comprehension...

Wojo's coaching needs work but has improved consistently.

The talent level is fine. Wojo has done well landing top-100 players regularly, has hit big on some transfers, and is getting quality out of his three stars (John, Anim, Elliott, Cain).

My point in talking about subpar coaching and talent is that YOU are making that argument. I don't agree, largely because if both were true, the results we've seen would be impossible.

Brad Brownell is a really odd example. Barring absolute disaster, he will be the winningest coach in Clemson history by January. They are traditionally a bad program and Oliver Purnell is seriously one of their most successful coaches ever. They aren't worth comparing to Marquette.

The talent level is fine. Wojo has done well landing top-100 players regularly, has hit big on some transfers, and is getting quality out of his three stars (John, Anim, Elliott, Cain).


Okay cool...you're happy with the talent..And as i said, It's been ok/good, but not at the level I thought it would be, and that is the biggest reason why I have been so frustrated with his tenure thus far. I really and truly believed his recruiting would be stellar at this point, and thus, the results would have been better at this point. Maybe I overrated him as a recruiter, but he came with the rep of being one of the best in the country. I hope we'd both agree, that the talent NEEDS to be better if MU is ultimately going to go where we want them to go(win a Natty).

I don't agree, largely because if both were true, the results we've seen would be impossible.

So you're trying to prop him up, basically saying the results thus far have been good. That means one of two things and ONLY one of two things...A. You're completely satisfied with results like this from the MU program(that's your right, and spare me the patience thing) B. You don't really have the high aspirations that you say you do for the program(again spare me the patience thing). Should they have won a Natty by now?? Certainly not. Should they have had a conference title and at least a few tournament wins by now?? IN MY OPINION...without question...and again, that is because I really thought his recruiting would be better at this point.

Ironically enough, he would have had his most talented team he has had at MU this upcoming year, but two of his three most talented players, decided to leave the program.

“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

muguru

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #189 on: June 16, 2019, 06:44:16 PM »
Guru....so he made adjustments, just not the ones you can identify or want to give him credit for.  To use your words...NEVER has he done so.   Got it.

Have a wonderful Father’s Day

You seriously have a reading/comprehension problem don't you chicos?? I mean that in all sincerity, you can get help for that. For the umpteenth time...go back and read what i said(i'm imploring you). I absolutely have said he makes adjustments, I identify every single one he makes(I played the game). He just had not made "bag of tricks" type adjustments, which I have said at least three times, not that he has never made any adjustments. He makes them, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't...and the second part of that is VERY important to understand...when they DON'T work, and he adjusts again and those don't work, you NEED something else to go to...Hence the bag of tricks. I think EVERY Coach should have them not just Wojo. I thought Bo Ryan was an idiot for never playing zone, when their were times it probably would have really worked.

Wojo has shown NO propensity for adjusting to his adjustments that don't work, in TERMS of what I would like to see from him..I cited some examples..(going zone for stretches(not just a possession or two), Trapping and pressing Louisville style, Things like that.

So yes...ONE MORE TIME for my obviously impaired friend...He HAS made adjustments, I have recognized his adjustments, sometimes they have worked, sometimes they haven't...but if something isn't working repeatedly, and then your adjustments to those aren't working, it's MY OPINION he should have more to use, and/or try. I guess i don't see how that would be such a bad thing. People here talk about it like it would be stupid or dumb, and that NO Coaches do things like that. Hell, his mentor Coach K, who has always been known for his man defense played almost exclusively zone a couple of years ago. Amazing, right??

“Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity.” Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #190 on: June 16, 2019, 06:54:50 PM »
This is an odd and somewhat disturbing post.  You realize I’m not actually Mr. Hauser, right?  And that throwing personal, non-basketball related insults at the Hauser family doesn’t actually matter to me, right?  If you want to insult the Hausers on a personal level, I think it’s kind of messed up and makes Marquette fans look bad, but hey, be my guest.  If you want to say the Hausers tanked the season because it’ll convince someone somewhere that Wojo was in no way at fault for the collapse, well, that’s just false and if I see it, I’ll put in my two cents.

Nice excuse Mr. Hauser. Now why don’t you run along now. I hear poor Joey skinned his knee and needs a hug.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

brewcity77

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #191 on: June 16, 2019, 07:31:38 PM »
That means one of two things and ONLY one of two things...A. You're completely satisfied with results like this from the MU program(that's your right, and spare me the patience thing) B. You don't really have the high aspirations that you say you do for the program(again spare me the patience thing).

No. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever seen stated on Scoop. No. No, man, no. It doesn't mean either of those things. FFS.

MU82

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #192 on: June 16, 2019, 08:37:26 PM »
Please explain the difference.
I can't speak for tower so I won't. Just my own opinion ...

I don't think the Hausers tanked. I don't really know what he meant by torpedoed, but I wouldn't have used that word either.

They shot poorly down the stretch, as did Markus. Joey continued his trend of poor basketball over the last 2 months - turnovers, horrid D and meh shooting. I think both tried their hardest, as did Markus. And Wojo, for that matter.

Some Scoopers are convinced that one or two Warriors are "to blame." I believe there is plenty to go around.

Our guys picked a bad stretch to have a bad stretch.

I know that's not very satisfying for those who think Wojo should be fired, who want to villainize Joey, who think Markus is a "cancer," and who think Sam is selfish ... but it's the best I've got
“Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.”

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Silent Verbal

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #193 on: June 16, 2019, 08:51:47 PM »
I can't speak for tower so I won't. Just my own opinion ...

I don't think the Hausers tanked. I don't really know what he meant by torpedoed, but I wouldn't have used that word either.

They shot poorly down the stretch, as did Markus. Joey continued his trend of poor basketball over the last 2 months - turnovers, horrid D and meh shooting. I think both tried their hardest, as did Markus. And Wojo, for that matter.

Some Scoopers are convinced that one or two Warriors are "to blame." I believe there is plenty to go around.

Our guys picked a bad stretch to have a bad stretch.

I know that's not very satisfying for those who think Wojo should be fired, who want to villainize Joey, who think Markus is a "cancer," and who think Sam is selfish ... but it's the best I've got

Now this is an analysis I can agree with.

Cheeks

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Re: A macro view of P6 coaches
« Reply #194 on: June 16, 2019, 10:29:33 PM »
Please explain the difference.

He will have to explain what he meant....maybe that was his intention, but I didn’t read it that way at all....I read it as exploded, or went south.  Tanking means purposely not trying, or evening desiring to lose.  I would be surprised if that is what he meant, but maybe he did.
”The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.”
― Thomas Jefferson