MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 21, 2018, 08:26:18 PM
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1. 22-0
2. Turnovers. By everyone.
3. No free throws until 4:21 was left in the game.
4. Kansas is either 1 or 2 right now. They don't suck.
5. Some will say hero ball. Looked like MH was trying to lead.
6. Theo looked small.
7. Speed kills.
8. All my fault. I missed the first half coaching 6th graders. Sat down, cracked my first beer in a month, settled in to watch the second half. Oops.
9. Beat Louisville.
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
Not at all due to this game. IU....yes.
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Not in the slightest.
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
Because they lost to the #1 team in the country on a neutral court? Lol.
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
As it should. Zero adjustments at half time.
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I give up. This team is so disappointing day in and day out. How do you execute perfectly and then just fall apart? Can't adjust. Lack of coaching or players that will listen.
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
HAHA omfg...how dense are you? We lost because of terrible shooting in the second half. Kansas scored 2 more points in the second half than they did in the first. It wasn't a "Whoa they totally adjusted".
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Adjustments for what!? What adjustments did everyone want them to make?
Kansas did not exploit us in the second half. They literally scored almost the same amount. We missed a ton of decent / good shots...
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Kansas season low score so far....
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Kansas season low score so far....
Yeah but rocky, we didn't adjust or make adjustments for their amazing offense in the second half...
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The temperature on Wojo’s chair is rising.
Nope
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
I guess you missed the 2 timeouts Wojo called...
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
Again... what adjustments?
And he did call a time out... you can't come on a forum and make shiz up... Ellenson can text, but can't comprehend.
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In the postgame handshakes, I could’ve sworn I saw Self quote Alec Baldwin from “Glengarry Glen Ross” to Wojo: “You see, pal, that’s who I am. And you’re nothing.”
At least, that’s what he should’ve said.
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HAHA omfg...how dense are you? We lost because of terrible shooting in the second half. Kansas scored 2 more points in the second half than they did in the first. It wasn't a "Whoa they totally adjusted".
Agree this outcome didn’t change the temp of Wojo’s seat but he does share some blame with a lack of adjustments. KU clearly defended us off the 3 point line (which we all knew they would) and Wojo did nothing to attack the paint, cut, etc.
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The problem is that Marquette really only scores one way. They don’t have players who attack the basket with any consistency. So when a good team like Kansas shuts down your outside shooting, you don’t have a back up.
This is more about Wojo the recruiter. They are still struggling with this. Hopefully Elliott comes back and Cain and Bailey grown into their roles.
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
He called multiple time outs.
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I literally can't believe people are okay with this result. I'm honestly shook. Kansas made adjustments and went on a 22-0 run and we didn't score for 10 minutes and people are okay. Is this the DePaul forum?
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HAHA omfg...how dense are you? We lost because of terrible shooting in the second half. Kansas scored 2 more points in the second half than they did in the first. It wasn't a "Whoa they totally adjusted".
Did you see anything from Wojo that suggested he could coach? I saw a coach that told Sam and Markus to shoot whenever they could and hoped for the best. Every time a player caught the ball it was 1-5. No actual offense. Defense is the same it’s been for 5 years.
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I’m encouraged. Defense was good. Lawson is simply a stud.
Win Friday and I’m good with the trip.
Just need Markus to start playing within the offense. Whether that’s less of the ball in his hand and more in Chartouny and running plays for the Hausers or putting him on the pine until he learns to read the court if we get that we’ll be top 3 in the BE.
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Agree this outcome didn’t change the temp of Wojo’s seat but he does share some blame with a lack of adjustments. KU clearly defended us off the 3 point line (which we all knew they would) and Wojo did nothing to attack the paint, cut, etc.
Fair, could have slashed and gone to the hoop like howard did and get stuffed a few more times. Could have dumped it in to theo. Could have had guys get to the hoop and miss layups like Joey and Sacar did...
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Adjustments for what!? What adjustments did everyone want them to make?
Kansas did not exploit us in the second half. They literally scored almost the same amount. We missed a ton of decent / good shots...
FJM - fair point that ku scores the same. I don’t agree that the team took decent or good shots in the second half. Our O never adjusted to Kansas D.
Good effort against a good team but this wasn’t just the result of a cold streak.
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1. 22-0
2. Turnovers. By everyone.
3. No free throws until 4:21 was left in the game.
4. Kansas is either 1 or 2 right now. They don't suck.
5. Some will say hero ball. Looked like MH was trying to lead.
6. Theo looked small.
7. Speed kills.
8. All my fault. I missed the first half coaching 6th graders. Sat down, cracked my first beer in a month, settled in to watch the second half. Oops.
9. Beat Louisville.
5. Disagree second half he just became selfish since the very beginning. He is a junior disappointed by the way he played that half. With JC in he kept being the PG, wtf why have JC in then?
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Again... what adjustments?
Yeah on a team built to do one thing, you really can’t “adjust” to do something else when shots don’t fall.
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This team is the result of a politically correct mascot and coach, just the opposite of our glory years
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The only thing I can fault Wojo for is not going at Azubuike in the second half. But MU was so eager to turn the ball over, they couldn't set up the offense to try.and pound it inside to see if Uzubuike would fool.
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Good game. Last two games should give these men a chip on their shoulder. All that matters is that they learn as much as they can and take it with them through the season.
It's a little frightening to me, the amount of people on here that seem to be teetering on a mental breakdown purely based on MU basketball game results. You win and lose games in sports. And we are just watching. Life will go on tomorrow.
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Open threes in first half. KU made changes. MU players were lost and staff did not give proper guidance.
Nine minutes without scoring to open a half is an embarrassment.
Markus 6 for 23. Yikes
Brendan Bailey not shy for a guy shooting 2 for 16 from field on season. Thats 12%.
Morrow, well even Fran said he was a disappointment so far. He's not wrong:
On the season: five games: 14 points, 7 rebounds, 10 turnovers, 10 fouls.
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
+1
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Did you see anything from Wojo that suggested he could coach? I saw a coach that told Sam and Markus to shoot whenever they could and hoped for the best. Every time a player caught the ball it was 1-5. No actual offense. Defense is the same it’s been for 5 years.
Yeah that’s pretty much a very poor description of what the game was.
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I literally can't believe people are okay with this result. I'm honestly shook. Kansas made adjustments and went on a 22-0 run and we didn't score for 10 minutes and people are okay. Is this the DePaul forum?
Program has fallen over the years. So have standards
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Adjustments for what!? What adjustments did everyone want them to make?
Kansas did not exploit us in the second half. They literally scored almost the same amount. We missed a ton of decent / good shots...
Go to the hoop and get to the line, they started guarding above the 3 point line. The 3’s we were shooting in the second were more heavily contested. And I don’t know use a pump fake every once in a while.
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Open threes in first half. KU made changes. MU players were lost and staff did not give proper guidance.
Nine minutes without scoring to open a half is an embarrassment.
Markus 6 for 23. Yikes
Brendan Bailey not shy for a guy shooting 2 for 16 from field on season. Thats 12%.
Morrow, well even Fran said he was a disappointment so far. He's not wrong:
On the season: five games: 14 points, 7 rebounds, 10 turnovers, 10 fouls.
I’m confused. A guy shooting 4 shots a game isn’t shy?
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The second half was a disappointment. Hopefully the team can regroup and beat Louisville.
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Go to the hoop and get to the line, they started guarding above the 3 point line. The 3’s we were shooting in the second were more heavily contested. And I don’t know use a pump fake every once in a while.
Who should go to the hoop? Who can beat someone off the dribble with any consistency? They have one player who can do that, and he’s dinky.
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Howard had a solid first half but even when he’s scoring he doesn’t seem to take the right shot at the right time.
I’ve never seen a good player take more I’ll advised shots/passes at the worst possible time. And it goes both ways! We can be on a roll and he’ll decide he needs to be a part of it and pffft...run over. Or we can be on a 0-15 run and he thinks he needs to end it and he’ll make some ill advised drive to the basket!
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Yeah that’s pretty much a very poor description of what the game was.
Ok Sultan... your the expert, what did you see?
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Yeah on a team built to do one thing, you really can’t “adjust” to do something else when shots don’t fall.
This is true. If we don't shoot it at a really high level from 3, we lose against solid teams. Virtually no 2pt FG ability/offensive sets, and little to no ability to get to the line - other than Sacar and perhaps Joey.
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Guys if I told you before the season that we’d lose to the #2 team in the country before the season started you would be happy. Jesuits love crapty coaches, push out the good ones. Take as old as time.
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Missed lay ups by Theo. Missed lay ups by Markus with contact and no call. Missed floater by Sacar. Missed open 3s. MU got looks.
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No moral vicories but we got a nice look at this team’s ceiling and it looked like a team that can compete for a BE title.
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Guys if I told you before the season that we’d lose to the #2 team in the country before the season started you would be happy. Jesuits love crapty coaches, push out the good ones. Take as old as time.
I don't mind losing, I'm minding the way we are losing.
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Yeah but rocky, we didn't adjust or make adjustments for their amazing offense in the second half...
Yes, I agree. But let me quote myself again just to reinforce my obnoxious point. :)
Kansas season low score so far....
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Who should go to the hoop? Who can beat someone off the dribble with any consistency? They have one player who can do that, and he’s dinky.
Cain and anim were already doing it, but too scared to go strong to the basket and absorb contact. Did you see the actions at the basket we were running with Sam and Joey in the high post with 5 min left to dish to off ball cutters?
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I don't mind losing, I'm minding the way we are losing.
You mean, by scoring less points than the opponent. Yes, I hate losing that way too.
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You mean, by scoring less points than the opponent. Yes, I hate losing that way too.
No, by getting severely out coached. Imagine scoring zero points in 10 minutes and being satisfied. Couldn't be me.
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9 point neutral court loss to (at worst) a top 5 team. 3 hours ago, everyone would have taken that, and more importantly, that's all it will be seen as in March.
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No moral vicories but we got a nice look at this team’s ceiling and it looked like a team that can compete for a BE title.
We may be top 3 in a 2 bid league.
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9 point neutral court loss to (at worst) a top 5 team. 3 hours ago, everyone would have taken that, and more importantly, that's all it will be seen as in March.
But then we got a taste of what this team SHOULD be in the first half. Thats what is so hard. Moral victories dont count much in March.
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We may be top 3 in a 2 bid league.
True.
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9 point neutral court loss to (at worst) a top 5 team. 3 hours ago, everyone would have taken that, and more importantly, that's all it will be seen as in March.
Disagree. Last year we won the games we were suppose to and lost the games we were supposed to. Did you see where that got us?
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Disagree. Last year we won the games we were suppose to and lost the games we were supposed to. Did you see where that got us?
This isn't wrong, but it does nothing to disprove my point. We are expected to win more games this year, if we follow suit and win what we are expected to, we'll be fine.
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I don’t know how you let a team piss away a lead on a 0-22 run without at least calling a time out. Guy can’t coach. He can recruit, but can’t coach.
Word is that he can also do great power point.
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Yes, I agree. But let me quote myself again just to reinforce my obnoxious point. :)
Sorry. I was being extremely sarcastic. Our D was solid tonight. And we just couldn’t buy a shot early in the second half.
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Cain and anim were already doing it, but too scared to go strong to the basket and absorb contact. Did you see the actions at the basket we were running with Sam and Joey in the high post with 5 min left to dish to off ball cutters?
Yes. But if you are too scared, or too weak, to get to the basket, it really doesn't do you a lot of good.
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This isn't wrong, but it does nothing to disprove my point. We are expected to win more games this year, if we follow suit and win what we are expected to, we'll be fine.
I respect your optimism, but I don’t know how anyone could watch the second half tonight and feel like this program is in good hands.
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Sorry. I was being extremely sarcastic.
Oh, I understood. Appreciate you posting among the crazies.
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Most people had this down as a loss, so at least we can say Wojo continues to meet expectations.
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Chartouny and Morrow- what a bill of goods we were sold that both of them were major pickups. Neither belong at a Big East school looking to contend.
We’re in major trouble. Seriously overrated talent and depth
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Chartouny and Morrow- what a bill of goods we were sold that both of them were major pickups. Neither belong at a Big East school looking to contend.
We’re in major trouble. Seriously overrated talent and depth
JC is what he is. But I am blown away by how ineffective Ed has been.
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Chartouny and Morrow- what a bill of goods we were sold that both of them were major pickups. Neither belong at a Big East school looking to contend.
We’re in major trouble. Seriously overrated talent and depth
We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.
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Anyone making excuses still for Wojo and staff are no longer admitting that they’re watching crap. Dominated in two losses and a second half comeback to beat Presbyterian. Lordy
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Frustrating as that was a very winnable ballgame tonight. Self adjusted in the second half to just attack attack attack, MU just doesn’t have guys who can defend that or do that on the offensive end.
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We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.
I think that title belongs to Gonzaga...
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We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.
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And we’re absolutely dominated in the second half. Kansas jumped to early lead and slept walked rest of first half
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I think that title belongs to Gonzaga...
I do not.
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I respect your optimism, but I don’t know how anyone could watch the second half tonight and feel like this program is in good hands.
Defense is improved over last year (we probably would have given up 100 last year). We just couldn't buy a shot to open the 2nd half. I doubt we'll have another 9 minute drought all year. Second half hurts, a lot, but I still think there are more positives than negatives. It's fine if you disagree.
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We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.
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And we’re absolutely dominated in the second half. Kansas jumped to early lead and slept walked rest of first half
I’m guessing Bill Self would tell you they did not sleep walk. But maybe.
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Kansas didn’t take us seriously until they fell behind and had to
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Kansas didn’t take us seriously until they fell behind and had to
Oh.
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Yes. But if you are too scared, or too weak, to get to the basket, it really doesn't do you a lot of good.
My point is that it was obvious that there was no emphasis from the coaching staff in the second half to attack the basket. Instead to keep shooting 3’s which is exactly what Kansas wanted as they were guarding past the 3 point line and switching screens. Usually not a good idea to do what the defense wants.
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MU just doesn’t have guys who can defend that or do that on the offensive end.
Let me quote myself again, because I still don't think people understand.
Kansas season low score so far....
Offense was the problem today. Not defense. Kansas scored 38 in the 1st half, and 39 in the second half.
Now. You tell me why MU lost. (Yes, Markus is amazing, and a problem...)
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My point is that it was obvious that there was no emphasis from the coaching staff in the second half to attack the basket. Instead to keep shooting 3’s which is exactly what Kansas wanted as they were guarding past the 3 point line and switching screens. Usually not a good idea to do what the defense wants.
Who can create their own shots off the dribble?
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We really struggle to score in the lane. Everything is jump shots.
The Louisville game is huge now. Starting the season by whiffing on the first non 3 cupcakes would be a disastrous start.
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My point is that it was obvious that there was no emphasis from the coaching staff in the second half to attack the basket.
Because no one can.
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JC is what he is. But I am blown away by how ineffective Ed has been.
JC was supposed to be the PG our roster was lacking! He wasn’t an afterthought where hope was anything you get out of him is gravy. Highly disappointing player.
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Who can create their own shots off the dribble?
Only Marcus but that has nothing to do with what I said.
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Only Marcus but that has nothing to do with what I said.
So you want the coaching staff to tell them to do something they can't do???
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Let me quote myself again, because I still don't think people understand.
Offense was the problem today. Not defense. Kansas scored 38 in the 1st half, and 39 in the second half.
Now. You tell me why MU lost. (Yes, Markus is amazing, and a problem...)
Wrong, everything was the problem. Kansas dominated both ends once they took us seriously
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Because no one can.
Disagree heavily. Cain and Anim can slash. Sam and Joey can use the high post
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Markus did attack the basket. He missed lay ups and did not get foul calls. The ball was dumped into Theo, who missed bunnies. Sam drove into the lane and nobody bit or helped because his defender stayed in front of him and did not jump on a ball fake. Sacar missed a floater.
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Who can create their own shots off the dribble?
Ball movement and attacking the paint doesn’t just have to come off the dribble.
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Wrong, everything was the problem. Kansas dominated both ends once they took us seriously
I score you 0 out of 1. Guess you were used to that for quiz scores at Marquette.
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Defense is improved over last year (we probably would have given up 100 last year). We just couldn't buy a shot to open the 2nd half. I doubt we'll have another 9 minute drought all year. Second half hurts, a lot, but I still think there are more positives than negatives. It's fine if you disagree.
Defense is better, but Kansas put it to us pretty good while Azubiuke was in the game. He only played 15 minutes.
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We really struggle to score in the lane. Everything is jump shots.
The Louisville game is huge now. Starting the season by whiffing on the first non 3 cupcakes would be a disastrous start.
Exactly right. Don’t forget Presbyterian had us down well into 2nd half.
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So you want the coaching staff to tell them to do something they can't do???
Creating a shot off the dribble and driving to the basket to colapse the defense to either go up strong or kick out are not the same thing...........
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Defense is better, but Kansas put it to us pretty good while Azubiuke was in the game. He only played 15 minutes.
Yes, a really good center did get our post players in foul trouble. And kept our guys from attacking the basket while in the game.
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Creating a shot off the dribble and driving to the basket to colapse the defense to either go up strong or kick out are not the same thing...........
The defense isn't going to collapse on someone who can't go up strong.
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I score you 0 out of 1. Guess you were used to that for quiz scores at Marquette.
Keep telling yourself defense wasn’t an issue tonight. We played well for a stretch in first half. That was it. We had no ability to stop Kansas from getting anything they wanted on offense. Especially when Azubuike wasn’t in foul trouble. We had 6 team fouls before first media timeout!!
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Let me quote myself again, because I still don't think people understand.
Offense was the problem today. Not defense. Kansas scored 38 in the 1st half, and 39 in the second half.
Now. You tell me why MU lost. (Yes, Markus is amazing, and a problem...)
This.
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Defense is better, but Kansas put it to us pretty good while Azubiuke was in the game. He only played 15 minutes.
Very true (although I think Lawson was better than Doke), but we wont see a C as big or as good as that all year. Happ has better footwork, but gives up 4 inches and Matt already has some success against him. Come Beast play I think Theo will be fine (Ed has been a major disappointment though).
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Offense was the problem today. Not defense. Kansas scored 38 in the 1st half, and 39 in the second half.
Now. You tell me why MU lost. (Yes, Markus is amazing, and a problem...)
Agree, Rocky. My diagnosis: when you lose a player like Rowsey, it takes awhile for other players to fill that void. Rowsey's usage rate was about 1 in 4 possessions for two years. Additional usage for Markus was always going to make him less efficient. Sam H's game isn't going to be predicated on creating (and the way the NBA game is structured, he could play in the Association without developing that skill at MU). So who is going to shoulder that offense? Greg Elliot was the most aggressive candidate but he's hurt. Sacar's physicality makes him a great candidate, but his offensive game is a work in progress. Morrow has not shown the offense we anticipated. Cain is trying to figure out his role. Joey Hauser is an extremely talented freshman, but no one knows how to play with him yet.
I don't know the answer to where this offensive production is going to come from - my guess is a combo of (i) Joey's maturity, (ii) Sacar becoming more aggressive, and (iii) Cain figuring out how to fill the gaps, in that order - but whether or not Wojo figures this out will be the story of the season.
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
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Let me quote myself again, because I still don't think people understand.
Offense was the problem today. Not defense. Kansas scored 38 in the 1st half, and 39 in the second half.
Now. You tell me why MU lost. (Yes, Markus is amazing, and a problem...)
20 of 25 Kansas’ first 25 second half points were on layups or dunks.
As I correctly stated (thank you very much), KU had a layup drill going on in the second half.
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that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time.
You mean since 11/14 vs IU?
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You mean since 11/14 vs IU?
Maybe I should've specified second halves. When they spot you 9 points, you should at the bare minimum be in the game at the end.
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
Perhaps you have not been made aware of the fact that we only lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in history. A team Sam Hauser could’ve started on!
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KU had a layup drill going on in the second half.
Yes. And Marquette's offense was still the problem in the second half.
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
Well said
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
You lost me at getting a technical. That's not an adjustment. That's just desperation - and it rarely works.
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Perhaps you have not been made aware of the fact that we only lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in history. A team Sam Hauser could’ve started on!
Yup. Sam was the second best player on the court tonight, for either team. You disagree? My guess is Bill Self doesn’t.
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Kamsas basket that ended first half was result of nothing else than the team relaxing. That’s an attitude and culture issue. Good coaches would never tolerate that garbage
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Kamsas basket that ended first half was result of nothing else than the team relaxing. That’s an attitude and culture issue. Good coaches would never tolerate that garbage
All 5 players were back and in position. The kid made a running teardrop bouncing off a defender in good position.
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All 5 players were back and in position. The kid made a running teardrop bouncing off a defender in good position.
Bull- they let him get all the way into lane in a few seconds without one guy stopping the dribble
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Perhaps you have not been made aware of the fact that we only lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in history. A team Sam Hauser could’ve started on!
Because guys, this WAS a moral victory...after all, it was the #2 team in the country and MU was EXPECTED to lose, so because they did(never mind the fact they had a 12 point lead late in the first half), it's completely acceptable. My how low this program and it's fans have fallen. I guess when you are as used to losing as the fans have become under Wojo, moral victories become the calling card. So incredibly sad.
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I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking. Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.
If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.
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Very true (although I think Lawson was better than Doke), but we wont see a C as big or as good as that all year. Happ has better footwork, but gives up 4 inches and Matt already has some success against him. Come Beast play I think Theo will be fine (Ed has been a major disappointment though).
Theo has been a bright spot this season. He provides legitimate rim protection and can physically match up with anyone.
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You lost me at getting a technical. That's not an adjustment. That's just desperation - and it rarely works.
When all else fails, do something. Self adjusted to our open shooters. We didn't adjust to anything.
The free throw disparity was a factor. The turnovers were a factor. It's Wojo's job to make sure the refs are calling it both ways. And I realize when you shoot 30+ threes you'll get to the line less, but no FTs until the 35:39 of the game is gone is ridiculous.
If you can't make an adjustment to improve the play on the court, then do something to improve how the refs behave. If it smacks of desperation, well after that, I'd have taken a desperate attempt at changing the flow of the game over the non-existent attempt we saw in real life.
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I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking. Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.
If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.
Excuses, excuses, more excuses. When is it time to produce? Archie Miller at he beginning of second season kicked our tail with guys out and very young squad
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I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking. Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.
If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.
I'm afraid we'll be feeling that hangover all season.
We were 14th in eFG% last season at 56.8%
Through 4 games this year:
116th at 52.4%
On positive side our defense is way improved:
Last year efg% yielded was 53.8% or 292 in country, this year at 43.8% or 43rd. Yet elite offense IMO trumps very good defense.
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Yup. Sam was the second best player on the court tonight, for either team. You disagree? My guess is Bill Self doesn’t.
Actually, I agree with that and was just having some fun. Kansas could use a guy like Sam. I wasn’t impressed with Vick. If he continues to shoot at a high volume, he’ll end the year at about 35%. That’s not bad, but it ain’t Chris Lofton, either.
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Theo has been a bright spot this season. He provides legitimate rim protection and can physically match up with anyone.
Theo best defensive center since Otule?
Also QG didn't look like anything special. Dotson looked much better.
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Bull- they let him get all the way into lane in a few seconds without one guy stopping the dribble
Go watch the play again. You're making a fool of yourself tonight.
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You watched the first 5 minutes of the game and Kansas was attacking the basket and drawing lots of fouls. They got away from that and started losing. I said during half time, Kansas will just take the ball to the rim the second half, which is exactly what they did. Then they extended their defense to challenge our 3 point shooters because we rarely get the ball inside.
What adjustments did we make to account for KU taking it to the rim all second half, and their extended defense? Pack the paint? Zone? Get the ball inside ( we did a couple of times with Theo). What?
You cannot blame the coach for terrible shootimg and terrible shot selection . And plenty of turnovers. But making adjustments is key. Self made adjustments and they executed. What adjustments did we make? I’m asking honestly. I don’t know.
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I'm afraid we'll be feeling that hangover all season.
We were 14th in eFG% last season at 56.8%
Through 4 games this year:
116th at 52.4%
On positive side our defense is way improved:
Last year efg% yielded was 53.8% or 292 in country, this year at 43.8% or 43rd. Yet elite offense IMO trumps very good defense.
I think the bolded highlights why only reasonable improvements in defense won't get it done. It was easy to complain about Howard/Rowsey last year from a narrative standpoint, but the ball was being poured into the hoop. It will be next to impossible to replicate the eFG%, so the defense would have to improve by leaps and bounds just to keep up with that natural regression.
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I’m not gonna panic yet, but they really gotta beat Ville on Friday night.
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Theo best defensive center since Otule?
Also QG didn't look like anything special. Dotson looked much better.
Without question, and anticipate he'll be better than Chris come next year, if not already this year.
I wasn't impressed with Grimes at all. He's not a ++ athlete. Not explosive - which is the primary quality I would recruit for in a guard (good handles obviously a pre-requisite), but get my a guy with a lot quicks that can break people down off the dribble.
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Go watch the play again. You're making a fool of yourself tonight.
I don’t have to, but you do. Either that or defense is as lost on you as it is Wojo and staff
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I don’t have to, but you do. Either that or defense is as lost on you as it is Wojo and staff
He threw up a 1 handed running tear drop bouncing off of a 6'8" defender that bounced off high off the rim and rolled in. It is what it is. You're crying just to cry.
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You lost me at getting a technical. That's not an adjustment. That's just desperation - and it rarely works.
0-22 run to start the 2nd half= desperation
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He threw up a 1 handed running tear drop bouncing off of a 6'8" defender that bounced off high off the rim and rolled in. It is what it is. You're crying just to cry.
I’m not going to continue to argue with someone who hasn’t grasped the concept of stopping the ball on defense. He should have never got all the way in the lane in that little time to get a tear drop off
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We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.
I'll take Duke (I know they lost tonight) to win the NCAA and give you Kansas. Name your number.
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
^this 100 times
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Sam picked him up when he should have, but that's a team breakdown.
With 6 seconds, someone has to be in the backcourt to at least make the guy work a bit.
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First half, Kansas hedged the high screen leading to wide open 3s for the screener. 2nd half they switched. Now you have to take advantage of the switches, which MU didn’t do. Also too many turnovers. Our defense is better, but we aren’t forcing turnovers, leading to lots of extra possessions for the opponent.
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First half, Kansas hedged the high screen leading to wide open 3s for the screener. 2nd half they switched. Now you have to take advantage of the switches, which MU didn’t do.
Need a PG that sees something other than his next shot to do that.
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I'll take Duke (I know they lost tonight) to win the NCAA and give you Kansas. Name your number.
1 year self ban from Scoop.
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1 year self ban from Scoop.
Done.
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Had someone point out to me at the game that the first player of the second half may have been the key play. Marquette plays solid D and funnels Devon Dotson into an easy stuff by Theo. Block happens to bounce right to Dedric Lawson in perfect position for a layup. That block goes to one of our players and maybe the momentum never swings like it did. Ifs and buts eh?
Final score was better than I anticipated though we didn't get there how I expected. I was expecting a 15-20 point blowout and it was single digits. Was definitely not expecting the 24-0 run. Hard to know what to do with that. Saw a lot to be encouraged by and a lot to be concerned with. Markus going 6/23 (26%) is a problem. The rest of the team going 19/37 (51.4%) is encouraging. I understand you want your best players taking the most shots but taking 40% of the shots when you're shooting 26% is not acceptable.
Record wise we are exactly where I expected to be. I predicted that we would win out the rest of our non-conference from here (though Kansas State at home I was 50/50 on, went with heart over head). Gotta to go 3-1 against the 4 remaining non-conference games. Friday isn't a must win, but losing leaves no room for error. Hope this team responds by crushing the Cards.
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Really? You counted rebuilding and young IU as a loss? I sure didn’t given expectations. And to be blown out of Assembly Hall is a major red flag for team thought to be ready to challenge Villanova
I’m sick of this tonight their record is what I expected. That’s completely sanitizing two butt kickings and that inspired 2nd half comeback against Presbyterian. This looks nothing like a team ready to make run at Big East title let alone upper half league finish.
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[quote author=TAMU Eagle link=topic=56978.msg1057291#msg1057291 date=154286245
Record wise we are exactly where I expected to be.
Really? You counted rebuilding and young IU as a loss? I sure didn’t given expectations. And to be blown out of Assembly Hall is a major red flag for team thought to be ready to challenge Villanova
I’m sick of this tonight their record is what I expected. That’s completely sanitizing two butt kickings and that inspired 2nd half comeback against Presbyterian. This looks nothing like a team ready to make run at Big East title let alone upper half league finish.
So Kansas didn’t try until they had to but we tried really hard all game against Presbyterian all game.
Classic.
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Would have loved a Rowsey head-fake 3pt foul to help stop that 22-0 run...
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So Kansas didn’t try until they had to but we tried really hard all game against Presbyterian all game.
Classic.
Yeah, correct. Kansas totally dominated both ends from first possession of 2nd half. We were almost 8 minutes into 2nd half against Presbyterian before finally outplaying them. And we didn’t go on a 24-0 run holding Presbyterian scoreless through 2 media timeouts in that memorable comeback.
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Because they lost to the #1 team in the country on a neutral court? Lol.
They played Kansas. Not Gonzaga ;)
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I'll take Duke (I know they lost tonight) to win the NCAA and give you Kansas. Name your number.
I’m with you, Lennie. Kansas ain’t gonna win it all.
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Yeah, correct. Kansas totally dominated both ends from first possession of 2nd half. We were almost 8 minutes into 2nd half against Presbyterian before finally outplaying them. And we didn’t go on a 24-0 run holding Presbyterian scoreless through 2 media timeouts in that memorable comeback.
And yet despite all of that we won by more than what Kansas best us by.
But sure. Kansas didn’t try.
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I’m with you, Lennie. Kansas ain’t gonna win it all.
Sure. If it’s Kansas or the field I’ll take the field.
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6pm (12am) tips are tough for me on a school night so I couldn't watch - but am gut-shot by that run. What kind of line-up(s) did we have in? What kind of set plays did we run out of the TOs? Those kinds of runs seem emblamatic of all sorts of different Wojo-era losses -this wasn't just a fluke.
Would love to know what percentage of games, nationally, feature 9 minutes scoreless stretches.
Aside: Box score for Tuny looks like what we'd want - 8 to 3 A/TO, and hit a 3 to keep them honest. What stretches was he in for?
Other boxscore note - a total of 2 rebounds in 35 minutes from our three-headed F/C? Were 8 of Lawson's 26 second chance pts?
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And yet despite all of that we won by more than what Kansas best us by.
But sure. Kansas didn’t try.
The spread of the final score alone tells you Kansas didn’t give a half hearted first half effort? How many times did Sam have completely wide open first half looks? Think Kansas staff didn’t preach you can’t leave Sam open? Example they were not fully engaged until 2nd half. Wide open looks suddenly disappeared for Sam and everyone else. That’s simply effort.
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The spread of the final score alone tells you Kansas didn’t give a half hearted first half effort? How many times did Sam have completely wide open first half looks? Think Kansas staff didn’t preach you can’t leave Sam open? Example they were not fully engaged until 2nd half. Wide open looks suddenly disappeared for Sam and everyone else. That’s simply effort.
So what did MU tell its kids at halftime?
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HAHA omfg...how dense are you? We lost because of terrible shooting in the second half. Kansas scored 2 more points in the second half than they did in the first. It wasn't a "Whoa they totally adjusted".
Adjustments come on both ends, Kansas adjusted and ran to a 22-0 run. Marquette stayed the same.
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I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.
We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.
Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.
The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.
We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.
Adamantly agree with the above. Every word. +1,000,000
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If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.
Wojo has to realize this too, though. He needs to find ways to get more guys involved. Whether it's through play calling or a few talking points on the sideline, as the coach, he needs to manage this roster better. Roles will begin to naturally form as the season goes on, but we can't just wait around for it to happen. Guys need to at least have the confidence to try something on offense instead of just passing around the perimeter until Markus heaves one up.
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Really? You counted rebuilding and young IU as a loss? I sure didn’t given expectations. And to be blown out of Assembly Hall is a major red flag for team thought to be ready to challenge Villanova
I’m sick of this tonight their record is what I expected. That’s completely sanitizing two butt kickings and that inspired 2nd half comeback against Presbyterian. This looks nothing like a team ready to make run at Big East title let alone upper half league finish.
Yes I expected a loss at IU. So did every non scooper in the country, including objective sources like KenPom and Vegas.
IU was a butt kicking and I didn't expect that. I expected a bigger loss to Kansas. We've sufficiently blown out the cupcakes. Net result is unchanged expectations moving forward.
Honestly, I don't buy those saying "how we lost" is why they are mad. Losing a lead is no worse than failing to comeback from a deficit or trailing by a few possessions coast to coast. Basketball is a game of runs. We had a great one in the first half, they had a better one in the second. I do appreciate that our guys did get off the mat, kept fighting, and won the last ten minutes. I'd be more concerned if they just rolled over
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Frustrating as that was a very winnable ballgame tonight. Self adjusted in the second half to just attack attack attack, MU just doesn’t have guys who can defend that or do that on the offensive end.
Post of the night.
I would amend by saying that we couldn't defend KANSAS or attack KANSAS. Going forward, we have guys who CAN defend '18-'19 BigEast attacks and go on offense and attack this watered-down conference. Runners train for speed by running downhill, not uphill. Swinging a weighted club in golf used to be the way to train. Now, it's ultra lightweight trainers like the Orange whip to develop speed ..I know, counter-intuitive.... I'd bet by March were we to face this same KU team, we could put two halves together. Confidence comes from results. I think results are coming. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
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I don’t have to, but you do. Either that or defense is as lost on you as it is Wojo and staff
The problem was they put Sam back on the floor with two fouls for the offensive possession. He was the one best able to stop the penetration, but didn't because he didn't want to pick up his third.
BTW, your "Kansas wasn't trying" in the first half line of thinking is really not a smart one.
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Did you see anything from Wojo that suggested he could coach? I saw a coach that told Sam and Markus to shoot whenever they could and hoped for the best. Every time a player caught the ball it was 1-5. No actual offense. Defense is the same it’s been for 5 years.
I thought overall the defense was pretty good. They got a lot of runouts in the second half off of turnovers and bad shots, so I guess you could say our transition defense wasn't good. But I thought overall we did what we could. Our bigs were pretty strong inside on D, I thought, even Hauser when called upon.
But in the second half they decided to pressure the perimeter passes, not leave the shooters and force us to beat them going to the basket. We didn't really try to go hard to the rim for a while and weren't too good at it when we did. And the one on five mentality was a real thing.
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Did you see anything from Wojo that suggested he could coach?
I’ve been waiting for an answer to this question since year one (I believe we all have). At some point not being able to answer with a definite “yes” is the same as a no
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The problem was they put Sam back on the floor with two fouls for the offensive possession. He was the one best able to stop the penetration, but didn't because he didn't want to pick up his third.
BTW, your "Kansas wasn't trying" in the first half line of thinking is really not a smart one.
I burst out laughing as I read your last sentence. I was thinking the same thing when I read Hutch's post. It is the way you call people out that keeps the board honest, and your existence is why people should often think before they hit "Post." I know I have deleted many a knee-jerk or emotional Post before I regretted it, lol.
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The problem was they put Sam back on the floor with two fouls for the offensive possession. He was the one best able to stop the penetration, but didn't because he didn't want to pick up his third.
BTW, your "Kansas wasn't trying" in the first half line of thinking is really not a smart one.
There were 4 other guys on the floor with Sam, right? None of them could be bothered to stop the ball.
Putting quotes around something I never wrote is really not smart. Kansas’s effort became half hearted after they started 19-11. I stand by that. As my earlier post stated which you’re free to accurately quote, Sam and all other open looks disappeared from the moment MU touched the ball in the second half. It was night and day how KU covered up three pt looks between the halves. Simply covering all open looks is all about effort being put forth.
Happy Thanksgiving
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I burst out laughing as I read your last sentence. I was thinking the same thing when I read Hutch's post. It is the way you call people out that keeps the board honest, and your existence is why people should often think before they hit "Post." I know I have deleted many a knee-jerk or emotional Post before I regretted it, lol.
People just need to watch and see what happened. Kansas was getting lost on pick and rolls constantly. They adjusted by not leaving shooters, and Marquette didn't make them pay - because they don't have players who can reliably take it to the basket. It has been an ongoing issue since Wojo got here. The team is not well constructed - perhaps Cain, Bailey and Elliott can fill that role eventually but they can't right now.
And yes, that's on Wojo. Team construction is his responsibility. Perhaps he thought Sacar could do it - but he is too inconsistent. But athletic wings are a necessity in college basketball. And we really don't have them right now.
Kansas’s effort became half hearted after they started 19-11. I stand by that.
Sorry but I didn't see that at all. Marquette started hitting shots and moving the ball. That just sounds like a convenient excuse for not giving credit where credit should be given.
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Kansas didn’t take us seriously until they fell behind and had to
They scored same amount of points in each half, so no. We missed open shots and had too many unforced TO's in second half.
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Wrong, everything was the problem. Kansas dominated both ends once they took us seriously
Bigly wrong #FakeNews
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6pm (12am) tips are tough for me on a school night so I couldn't watch - but am gut-shot by that run. What kind of line-up(s) did we have in? What kind of set plays did we run out of the TOs? Those kinds of runs seem emblamatic of all sorts of different Wojo-era losses -this wasn't just a fluke.
Would love to know what percentage of games, nationally, feature 9 minutes scoreless stretches.
Aside: Box score for Tuny looks like what we'd want - 8 to 3 A/TO, and hit a 3 to keep them honest. What stretches was he in for?
Other boxscore note - a total of 2 rebounds in 35 minutes from our three-headed F/C? Were 8 of Lawson's 26 second chance pts?
Main problem with me is that he played the 2 way too much with Markus in the game which makes no sense to me
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Post of the night.
I would amend by saying that we couldn't defend KANSAS or attack KANSAS. Going forward, we have guys who CAN defend '18-'19 BigEast attacks and go on offense and attack this watered-down conference. Runners train for speed by running downhill, not uphill. Swinging a weighted club in golf used to be the way to train. Now, it's ultra lightweight trainers like the Orange whip to develop speed ..I know, counter-intuitive.... I'd bet by March were we to face this same KU team, we could put two halves together. Confidence comes from results. I think results are coming. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
Nope, specially sprinters start on a flat and end on a slope for the last meters creates stamina and speed.
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At least we kept the game interesting for 20 minutes. A top 15 team kept the game against Kansas interesting for about 3 minutes when they played.
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At least we kept the game interesting for 20 minutes. A top 15 team kept the game against Kansas interesting for about 3 minutes when they played.
And Presbyterian kept the game interesting against us for 29 minutes. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.
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And Presbyterian kept the game interesting against us for 29 minutes. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.
Bingo. Hopefully you weren’t one of the many claiming it’s not the losses it’s how you lose.
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Bingo. Hopefully you weren’t one of the many claiming it’s not the losses it’s how you lose.
How you play during the game is the better insight into how the rest of the season plays out. That seems like an easy concept to grasp. In many cases, the final score doesn't tell the full story to the game - who controlled the pace of play, what ball movement was like, what the defensive pressure was like, etc.
You know all of this, though. You're just too dug in to give an inch here.
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How you play during the game is the better insight into how the rest of the season plays out. That seems like an easy concept to grasp. In many cases, the final score doesn't tell the full story to the game - who controlled the pace of play, what ball movement was like, what the defensive pressure was like, etc.
You know all of this, though. You're just too dug in to give an inch here.
We went 9 minutes without scoring a point and still lost by only 9 to the best team in the country. It’s November. We’ll be fine.
Had we beat IU and Kansas I’d be thinking we might go into the NCAA Tournament undefeated. Those might be our two toughest games this season.