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It was the best of halves, it was the worst of halves.

Started by tower912, November 21, 2018, 08:26:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

HutchwasClutch

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2018, 09:28:06 PM
I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.

We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.

Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.

The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.

We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.

Well said

GGGG

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2018, 09:28:06 PM
I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.

We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.

Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.

The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.

We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.


You lost me at getting a technical.  That's not an adjustment.  That's just desperation - and it rarely works.

wadesworld

Quote from: Research Report on November 21, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
Perhaps you have not been made aware of the fact that we only lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in history.  A team Sam Hauser could've started on!

Yup. Sam was the second best player on the court tonight, for either team. You disagree? My guess is Bill Self doesn't.

HutchwasClutch

Kamsas basket that ended first half was result of nothing else than the team relaxing. That's an attitude and culture issue.  Good coaches would never tolerate that garbage

wadesworld

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 21, 2018, 09:39:59 PM
Kamsas basket that ended first half was result of nothing else than the team relaxing. That's an attitude and culture issue.  Good coaches would never tolerate that garbage

All 5 players were back and in position. The kid made a running teardrop bouncing off a defender in good position.

HutchwasClutch

Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2018, 09:41:02 PM
All 5 players were back and in position. The kid made a running teardrop bouncing off a defender in good position.

Bull- they let him get all the way into lane in a few seconds without one guy stopping the dribble

muguru

Quote from: Research Report on November 21, 2018, 09:34:06 PM
Perhaps you have not been made aware of the fact that we only lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in history.  A team Sam Hauser could've started on!

Because guys, this WAS a moral victory...after all, it was the #2 team in the country and MU was EXPECTED to lose, so because they did(never mind the fact they had a 12 point lead late in the first half), it's completely acceptable. My how low this program and it's fans have fallen. I guess when you are as used to losing as the fans have become under Wojo, moral victories become the calling card. So incredibly sad.
"Being realistic is the most common path to mediocrity." Will Smith

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi

I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

MUBurrow

I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking.  Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.

If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.

Floorslapper

Quote from: Its DJOver on November 21, 2018, 09:18:47 PM
Very true (although I think Lawson was better than Doke), but we wont see a C as big or as good as that all year.  Happ has better footwork, but gives up 4 inches and Matt already has some success against him.  Come Beast play I think Theo will be fine (Ed has been a major disappointment though).

Theo has been a bright spot this season.  He provides legitimate rim protection and can physically match up with anyone.

brewcity77

Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 21, 2018, 09:38:09 PM

You lost me at getting a technical.  That's not an adjustment.  That's just desperation - and it rarely works.

When all else fails, do something. Self adjusted to our open shooters. We didn't adjust to anything.

The free throw disparity was a factor. The turnovers were a factor. It's Wojo's job to make sure the refs are calling it both ways. And I realize when you shoot 30+ threes you'll get to the line less, but no FTs until the 35:39 of the game is gone is ridiculous.

If you can't make an adjustment to improve the play on the court, then do something to improve how the refs behave. If it smacks of desperation, well after that, I'd have taken a desperate attempt at changing the flow of the game over the non-existent attempt we saw in real life.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

HutchwasClutch

Quote from: MUBurrow on November 21, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking.  Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.

If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.

Excuses, excuses, more excuses. When is it time to produce? Archie Miller at he beginning of second season kicked our tail with guys out and very young squad

Floorslapper

Quote from: MUBurrow on November 21, 2018, 09:44:32 PM
I've just been looking at the box score for a bit, and its actually making me feel better. There are a ton of empty minutes, offensively speaking.  Sacar, Cain, Morrow, J. Hauser, Charoutny, and Bailey combined for 72 minutes and 15 shots. That smells of Rowsey hangover to me.

If you cut down on turnovers a bit and redistribute shots a little more optimally, Sacar and J. Hauser 3 get more looks each, Morrow goes to work in the low post a bit, and Bailey two 3pt shots from the wing. That makes a big difference. And considering Morrow, Charoutny and J. Hauser have never played together, and Cain was just trading minutes with Greg Elliot last year, its going to take time.

I'm afraid we'll be feeling that hangover all season. 

We were 14th in eFG% last season at 56.8%

Through 4 games this year:

116th at 52.4%

On positive side our defense is way improved:

Last year efg% yielded was 53.8% or 292 in country, this year at 43.8% or 43rd.  Yet elite offense IMO trumps very good defense.

Silent Verbal

Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2018, 09:39:39 PM
Yup. Sam was the second best player on the court tonight, for either team. You disagree? My guess is Bill Self doesn't.

Actually, I agree with that and was just having some fun.  Kansas could use a guy like Sam.  I wasn't impressed with Vick.  If he continues to shoot at a high volume, he'll end the year at about 35%.  That's not bad, but it ain't Chris Lofton, either.

Its DJOver

Quote from: Floorslapper on November 21, 2018, 09:44:38 PM
Theo has been a bright spot this season.  He provides legitimate rim protection and can physically match up with anyone.

Theo best defensive center since Otule?

Also QG didn't look like anything special.  Dotson looked much better.
Quote from: nyg on May 13, 2024, 02:07:11 PM
I'll stick with my opinion on Gold.  He'll be in foul trouble within the first eight minutes.

wadesworld

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 21, 2018, 09:42:50 PM
Bull- they let him get all the way into lane in a few seconds without one guy stopping the dribble

Go watch the play again.  You're making a fool of yourself tonight.

Daniel

You watched the first 5 minutes of the game and Kansas was attacking the basket and drawing lots of fouls.   They got away from that and started losing.   I said during half time, Kansas will just take the ball to the rim the second half, which is exactly what they did.  Then they extended their defense to challenge our 3 point shooters because we rarely get the ball inside. 

What adjustments did we make to account for KU taking it to the rim all second half, and their extended defense?   Pack the paint?  Zone?  Get the ball inside ( we did a couple of times with Theo).   What?

You cannot blame the coach for terrible shootimg and terrible shot selection .   And plenty of turnovers.    But making adjustments is key.   Self made adjustments and they executed.  What adjustments did we make?  I'm asking honestly.  I don't know. 

MUBurrow

Quote from: Floorslapper on November 21, 2018, 09:59:26 PM
I'm afraid we'll be feeling that hangover all season. 

We were 14th in eFG% last season at 56.8%

Through 4 games this year:

116th at 52.4%

On positive side our defense is way improved:

Last year efg% yielded was 53.8% or 292 in country, this year at 43.8% or 43rd.  Yet elite offense IMO trumps very good defense.

I think the bolded highlights why only reasonable improvements in defense won't get it done.  It was easy to complain about Howard/Rowsey last year from a narrative standpoint, but the ball was being poured into the hoop.  It will be next to impossible to replicate the eFG%, so the defense would have to improve by leaps and bounds just to keep up with that natural regression.

DegenerateDish

I'm not gonna panic yet, but they really gotta beat Ville on Friday night.

Floorslapper

Quote from: Its DJOver on November 21, 2018, 10:00:04 PM
Theo best defensive center since Otule?

Also QG didn't look like anything special.  Dotson looked much better.

Without question, and anticipate he'll be better than Chris come next year, if not already this year.

I wasn't impressed with Grimes at all.  He's not a ++ athlete.  Not explosive - which is the primary quality I would recruit for in a guard (good handles obviously a pre-requisite), but get my a guy with a lot quicks that can break people down off the dribble.

HutchwasClutch

Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2018, 10:00:53 PM
Go watch the play again.  You're making a fool of yourself tonight.

I don't have to, but you do. Either that or defense is as lost on you as it is Wojo and staff

wadesworld

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on November 21, 2018, 10:09:06 PM
I don't have to, but you do. Either that or defense is as lost on you as it is Wojo and staff

He threw up a 1 handed running tear drop bouncing off of a 6'8" defender that bounced off high off the rim and rolled in.  It is what it is.  You're crying just to cry.

goldeneagle91114

Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 21, 2018, 09:38:09 PM

You lost me at getting a technical.  That's not an adjustment.  That's just desperation - and it rarely works.

0-22 run to start the 2nd half= desperation

HutchwasClutch

#122
Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
He threw up a 1 handed running tear drop bouncing off of a 6'8" defender that bounced off high off the rim and rolled in.  It is what it is.  You're crying just to cry.


I'm not going to continue to argue with someone who hasn't grasped the concept of stopping the ball on defense.  He should have never got all the way in the lane in that little time to get a tear drop off

Lennys Tap

Quote from: wadesworld on November 21, 2018, 09:00:30 PM
We lost by 9 on a neutral court to the best team in the country.

I'll take Duke (I know they lost tonight) to win the NCAA and give you Kansas. Name your number.

whitykj

Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2018, 09:28:06 PM
I've been as big a Wojo supporter as anyone, but this was bad. Losing by the point spread isn't the issue. Having a 9-point halftime lead and never being in the game in the second half is disgraceful. That game felt over even before we lost the lead.

We just needed a basket and kept throwing up bad looks. We didn't attack inside. Markus took contested looks too early. Then after falling down 14, we get it back to single digits with about a minute left and go inside when only threes would give us a chance.

Maybe we shouldn't have won, but we should've been in that game. And asking "what adjustments?" is a copout response. That's literally Wojo's job. To answer that question. Go inside, draw fouls, attack Azubuike, chirp at the refs and take a technical when Azubuike and Lawson are traveling or Cain is getting hacked inside without a whistle.

The first half was great, but that second was one of the worst coached halves I've seen in a long time. And I feel like second half adjustments is somewhere we are always at a disadvantage.

We should've won that game, but at the minimum, we certainly should've been in it. We weren't from the 20:00 mark of the second half, even when we still had the lead. That's sad.

^this 100 times