MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: BCHoopster on December 11, 2021, 11:27:31 PM
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Kolek has had moments this year but last two games he was a mess. Shaka has to have a play to get him an open easy shot, you can not play 4 on 5 and expect to win. His shot is so off that his misses are way off. Also, not sure he is quick enough to play with the big boys. Maybe he gets his confidence back, but my feelings he needs to play off the bench and let others play the point right now, to much a liability right now
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By others, you mean...who?
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By others, you mean...who?
Exactly.
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Shaka knows this team better than anybody. He sees him for several hours every day, watches him closely at practice, talks to him off the court. He would not be starting his second- or third-best PG and playing him max minutes if he didn't feel in his heart and mind that Kolek was by far this team's best PG option.
I wish he were the next Travis Diener, as some (even Diener IIRC!) wanted everybody to believe. He is not anything close to that. Not yet, and maybe not ever. But the guy who sees him for hours every day and whose record this season depends in great part on assessing his roster believes Tyler Kolek is the best we've got.
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If I think back long and hard I don’t think I can recall one time where Kolek has had an “open easy shot.”
I get it and I’m not trying to demean you but he has strengths that aren’t scoring, I just wish he didn’t waste so many possessions when it’s clear he’s currently not in a position to score.
People destroyed Vander Blue because he couldn’t shoot, but I applauded him for his defense and the extra possessions he created and the grit he showed. He then figured it out.
I don’t think Tyler can “figure it out” offensively beyond hitting 3s. I’ve never seen him score otherwise, despite his other positive attributes
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I don't mind him playing - he just has to STOP shooting 3s, Other than WVU, he is 6 for 42! 3 for 27 in his last 6 games. He needs to stop.
That is brutal and almost every shot has looked awful the instant it left his hand.
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I agree he has some other attributes, but a point has to score unless the other players can score and after a 2-24 night other than Elliott you can not play 4 on 5. Last 2 games zero points. The happiest person has to be Sean Jones!
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I agree with BC. He was an absolute mess today. He has become easy to defend. I think Kam, Stevie and Elliott should be cutting into his minutes substantially.
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So, 11 games in, we've decided that we fans know the abilities of those on this Marquette basketball roster better than the coach does?
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I have seen enough that the coaching staff does not have the right players to play his system!
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With how he is playing lately, Kolek deserves no more than 10 minutes a game. He is playing terribly and does not deserve to start.
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So, 11 games in, we've decided that we fans know the abilities of those on this Marquette basketball roster better than the coach does?
I guess so.
If we can't question coaching, philosophy or anything about the games, then what's the point of having this website.
Kolek is a mess right now. He had a string of questionable decisions in the second half that lead to 8 UCLA points. He currently can't hit the broad side of the barn. He is so easy to defend that every defender knows when he drives he is looking to dish the ball away. In a way he is becoming Derrick Wilson Jr. I get that the coach thinks he is there best option at the point. That he rebounds and leads the team in assists, etc. But he is trending the wrong direction and I would not be surprised that if this continues, coach will adjust accordingly. Just like he adjust with OMax.
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I guess so.
If we can't question coaching, philosophy or anything about the games, then what's the point of having this website.
Kolek is a mess right now. He had a string of questionable decisions in the second half that lead to 8 UCLA points. He currently can't hit the broad side of the barn. He is so easy to defend that every defender knows when he drives he is looking to dish the ball away. In a way he is becoming Derrick Wilson Jr. I get that the coach thinks he is there best option at the point. That he rebounds and leads the team in assists, etc. But he is trending the wrong direction and I would not be surprised that if this continues, coach will adjust accordingly. Just like he adjust with OMax.
Of course we can question coaching. You're right about this site giving us the opportunity to do that. I have done it in the past, and I'll do it this season. I just think that, 11 games in, with us knowing the little bit we know and Shaka knowing the lot that he knows, he gets the benefit of the doubt. At least from me.
I agree with you that Shaka will adjust accordingly if necessary.
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I guess so.
If we can't question coaching, philosophy or anything about the games, then what's the point of having this website.
Kolek is a mess right now. He had a string of questionable decisions in the second half that lead to 8 UCLA points.
Accountability. That first 3 minutes in the second half would make any other guard question why he’s still out there and make him think that he’s got enough a leash to get away with it. Any other coach he’s riding pine.
I’m not saying Shaka isn’t doing the right thing btw, just pointing out the obvious.
Shaka knows how important he is to the team but at some point you have to set a standard.
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Kolek had several horrible possessions in the second half that hurt the team big and cannot hit a basket the moment. I still believe that down the road he is going to play a big role in more wins than losses. I fully expect him to log big minutes in conference play.
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So, 11 games in, we've decided that we fans know the abilities of those on this Marquette basketball roster better than the coach does?
Shaka said in the postgame that Kolek is one of the most valuable players even when he isn’t scoring. He essentially said there is no chance others will take his minutes and I believe he said he works on his shot more than anyone he’s ever coached.
I think his shooting woes are definitely more than a confidence issue though. You have a young guy moving up a level and I’m hoping he is able to eventually adjust. I don’t think he’s lacking any confidence.
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I was as hard as anyone on Kolek during the game thread. It went from 11 to 19 in the 2nd half at a critical time because of his blunders. He should have sat a lot more in the 2nd half. But he has to play as our best facilitator. He's also a decent defender and rebounder.
Tbe fact is the entire team tonight, minus Greg Elliott, was 12-45 and shot 26%. Incredibly, UCLA blew us out shooting 36% and 10-17 from the line. They weren't good at all in tbe 2nd half except on 2nd chance points which killed us. We're not beating good teams shooting 26% and that not all on Kolek.
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I guess so.
If we can't question coaching, philosophy or anything about the games, then what's the point of having this website.
Kolek is a mess right now. He had a string of questionable decisions in the second half that lead to 8 UCLA points. He currently can't hit the broad side of the barn. He is so easy to defend that every defender knows when he drives he is looking to dish the ball away. In a way he is becoming Derrick Wilson Jr. I get that the coach thinks he is there best option at the point. That he rebounds and leads the team in assists, etc. But he is trending the wrong direction and I would not be surprised that if this continues, coach will adjust accordingly. Just like he adjust with OMax.
This is a little over the top. Kolek has made 10, 3 point shots in 11 games at MU. Derrick Wilson made 11 in his whole career. And Kolek puts a hell of a lot more pressure on a defense with his penetration than Derrick Wilson ever did.
Kolek is without question the best option to run point on this team. He's in a major shooting slump/funk. He will be fine.
You don't want Greg Elliott or Kam running PG. Stevie has some potential there, but he is definitely behind Kolek.
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Shaka said in the postgame that Kolek is one of the most valuable players even when he isn’t scoring. He essentially said there is no chance others will take his minutes and I believe he said he works on his shot more than anyone he’s ever coached.
I think his shooting woes are definitely more than a confidence issue though. You have a young guy moving up a level and I’m hoping he is able to eventually adjust. I don’t think he’s lacking any confidence.
Shaka said in New York during media day that he would be the one guy that everyone is talking about at the end of the season that no one was currently talking about.
He has been pushing Tyler for months.
Everyone can be wrong, even Shaka. Maybe he see a bit of himself as a college player in Ty- some brilliant passing, Shaka was a big assist guy at Oregon HS, actually holds records for assists.
He likely hoped the rest would come together, it hasn’t. It’s easy to see with Tys tenacity and passing ability how some average to good shooting would make him a talked about guy in the BE.
Tyler clearly has some elite court vision and is usually pretty composed but he also needs to be checked.
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Shaka said in New York during media day that he would be the one guy that everyone is talking about at the end of the season that no one was currently talking about.
He has been pushing Tyler for months.
Everyone can be wrong, even Shaka. Maybe he see a bit of himself as a college player in Ty- some brilliant passing, Shaka was a big assist guy at Oregon HS, actually holds records for assists.
He likely hoped the rest would come together, it hasn’t. It’s easy to see with Tys tenacity and passing ability how some average to good shooting would make him a talked about guy in the BE.
Tyler clearly has some elite court vision and is usually pretty composed but he also needs to be checked.
So do we play Morsell, Greg, and Kam extended mins? Who plays the point? Greg has to play off the ball and Jones isn't ready yet. Morsell has brought the ball up on occasion but it's not ideal for us. I'm a little surprised Ellis didn't get more of a look tonight.
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So do we play Morsell, Greg, and Kam extended mins? Who plays the point? Greg has to play off the ball and Jones isn't ready yet. Morsell has brought the ball up on occasion but it's not ideal for us. I'm a little surprised Ellis didn't get more of a look tonight.
Stevie would need more minutes, as would EE, Greg and the others, but coach knows best.
No clue what Morsell is at this point.
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Kolek played 36 minutes tonight. He was terrible. Kolek has now not made a basket in the last two games. He is a liability on offense and does not deserve the playing time he is getting.
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Kolek played 36 minutes tonight. He was terrible. Kolek has now not made a basket in the last two games. He is a liability on offense and does not deserve the playing time he is getting.
36 mins tonight is hard to understand frankly.
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He reminds me of Travis Diener
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Because the freshmen looked like deer in headlights. Which can happen in big games.
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His 0.2 value on T Rank is hilarious
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Kolek is a liability to the team right now. Last night his shooting woes affected his passing. His turnovers on top of his terrible shooting seem like a cancer affecting the team. We can't win with him now. It'll be interesting to see how Shaka "rights the ship."
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His offensive rating is 81.9, the worst of anyone on the team. He’s shooting 20% from 3! On the plus side, he’s 41st in the nation in assist rate and has a good steal %.
More alarming, his turnover rate is 26.4%. That would have been worse on the team a year ago.
He’s terrible at the moment. There’s no sugarcoating it.
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The trouble with Tyler right now is that there's no one else on the roster capable of being anything closely resembling a facilitator on offense. So, Shaka & Co. need to get Kolek right ASAP or it's going to be a rough conference season.
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Shooters don't break out of slumps from the bench.
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Shaka knows this team better than anybody. He sees him for several hours every day, watches him closely at practice, talks to him off the court. He would not be starting his second- or third-best PG and playing him max minutes if he didn't feel in his heart and mind that Kolek was by far this team's best PG option.
I wish he were the next Travis Diener, as some (even Diener IIRC!) wanted everybody to believe. He is not anything close to that. Not yet, and maybe not ever. But the guy who sees him for hours every day and whose record this season depends in great part on assessing his roster believes Tyler Kolek is the best we've got.
then MU is in big trouble.
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Shooters don't break out of slumps from the bench.
He needs to protect the ball then
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So, 11 games in, we've decided that we fans know the abilities of those on this Marquette basketball roster better than the coach does?
…the HC’s last name is Smart. His coaching against Wisconsin and UCLA was anything but. Granted, it’s a flawed roster, but I’m quite interested to observe how the coach works things in BE play.
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He needs to protect the ball then
Yes, passes that look great against the Jackson States of the world get picked off by top 5 teams. He, too, has a learning curve.
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Shooters don't break out of slumps from the bench.
Kolek ain’t a shooter. Ball rotation on release proves that.
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Kolek played 36 minutes tonight. He was terrible. Kolek has now not made a basket in the last two games. He is a liability on offense and does not deserve the playing time he is getting.
And the other options are going to be better? As someone else mentioned, Shaka said in the postgame that he believes in him and that he’s not going to lose many, if any, minutes.
As long as he continues to run the offense, doesn’t become careless with the ball, and maybe becomes a little more judicious in his shot selection until he can get in a rhythm that’s fine.
Kolek can get into the lane often but teams know he’s not looking to score and that a kick out is likely coming. This would need to happen over the off-season but I think adding a floater to his repertoire could be a nice boost to his game since finishing consistently at the rim probably won’t be.
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IMO the best option is a Kolek who shoots less. Kam isn't a distributor. Stevie and EE have upside but they aren't better than TK right now. Morsell is better off the ball.
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Shooters don't break out of slumps from the bench.
What persuades you that Kolek is a shooter?
I don't think the bench is an option given the roster make up, but the answer here isn't to let him keep firing up low-percentage shots and hope it gets better.
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How is Lewis shooting lately? Do you expect him to keep shooting?
The offense that Coach Smart is running this year is predicated on taking open 3's. Live by the 3, die by the 3.
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Tower
Kolek was extremely sloppy for a stretch last night and it hurt the team. He needs to cleanup passing every bit as much as improving his shooting in BE play. I do not see anyway that he does not play a ton of minutes all season and he has to make better decisions.
I will add, that was men playing boys last night and that is facts of life. They looked spooked by the bright lights and then the poor shooting became contagious. Chalk it up to playing against a big time team.
I hate losing and hate being out of game in ten minutes into even more. No silver linings IMO and hopefully they learn from it.
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IMO the best option is a Kolek who shoots less. Kam isn't a distributor. Stevie and EE have upside but they aren't better than TK right now. Morsell is better off the ball.
I agree that he's our best option right now but it's not like he took 20 shots. He has to be able to score the ball more than zero if he's on the floor for 35+ mins. Since West Virginia it's obviously been ugly. He's better than what we've seen recently and he has to be better. Otherwise he won't be guarded at all on the perimeter and it totally hamstrings our offense.
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What persuades you that Kolek is a shooter?
I don't think the bench is an option given the roster make up, but the answer here isn't to let him keep firing up low-percentage shots and hope it gets better.
That’s the rub.
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How is Lewis shooting lately? Do you expect him to keep shooting?
The offense that Coach Smart is running this year is predicated on taking open 3's. Live by the 3, die by the 3.
Lewis should be trying to score more in the paint but your point is well taken. It's not like Lewis, Morsell, and Jones have been lighting it up. But where I disagree with you is that if a shot is a available or open we must let it fly immediately. There's a difference between a good shot and a bad shot even if it's technically "open". We take bad shots constantly and did so once against last night
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I agree that he's our best option right now but it's not like he took 20 shots. He has to be able to score the ball more than zero if he's on the floor for 35+ mins. Since West Virginia it's obviously been ugly. He's better than what we've seen recently and he has to be better. Otherwise he won't be guarded at all on the perimeter and it totally hamstrings our offense.
Right. That's the problem. He's playing poorly but is still our best option.
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How is Lewis shooting lately? Do you expect him to keep shooting?
The offense that Coach Smart is running this year is predicated on taking open 3's. Live by the 3, die by the 3.
I'm not sure the Justin comparison helps much. Over the last five, Justin is 43.6% from the field and 21.7% from three. Tyler is 14.7% from the field and 12% from three.
But yes, I think we'd be better served if Justin took more of his shots in the post than from three.
As for what the offense is predicated upon ... what's the definition of insanity?
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Right. That's the problem. He's playing poorly but is still our best option.
So when you're struggling offensively, it seems to me that a concerted effort should be made to get a chippie or two free throws. That clearly didn't happen with TK yesterday. What's concerning is how badly a lot of our guys bricked last night. They were generally not close and I would argue they were tight for no reason known to man. We had 0.0 pressure on us vs UCLA and yet these guys made me look like a poster child for peace and calm. I saw a deer in the headlights look early and often from numerous players and it was inexplicable.
Tbe good news is on paper we had a solid non-c record and maybe we can get it together. But frankly I thought UCLA was mediocre at best yesterday and we played an unusually poor game in a number of areas. I don't think we were quite there mentally despite competing hard at various times. This troubles me a bit but maybe it was somewhat our youth and inexperience.
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So when you're struggling offensively, it seems to me that a concerted effort should be made to get a chippie or two free throws. That clearly didn't happen with TK yesterday. What's concerning is how badly a lot of our guys bricked last night. They were generally not close and I would argue they were tight for no reason known to man. We had 0.0 pressure on us vs UCLA and yet these guys made me look like a poster child for peace and calm. I saw a deer in the headlights look early and often from numerous players and ot was inexplicable.
Tbe good news is on paper we had a solid non-c record and maybe we can get it together. But frankly I thought UCLA was mediocre at best yesterday and we played an unusually poor game in a number of areas. I don't think we were quite there mentally despite competing hard at various times. This troubles me a bit but maybe it was somewhat our youth and inexperience.
Inexplicable? It is a young, inexperienced team playing one of the best teams in the country, coming off a Final Four, with all of their major players back. I am not making excuses for playing poorly, but it is completely explicable how it ended up that way.
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So when you're struggling offensively, it seems to me that a concerted effort should be made to get a chippie or two free throws. That clearly didn't happen with TK yesterday. What's concerning is how badly a lot of our guys bricked last night. They were generally not close and I would argue they were tight for no reason known to man. We had 0.0 pressure on us vs UCLA and yet these guys made me look like a poster child for peace and calm. I saw a deer in the headlights look early and often from numerous players and ot was inexplicable.
Tbe good news is on paper we had a solid non-c record and maybe we can get it together. But frankly I thought UCLA was mediocre at best yesterday and we played an unusually poor game in a number of areas. I don't think we were quite there mentally despite competing hard at various times. This troubles me a bit but maybe it was somewhat our youth and inexperience.
Yep. To me, only Greg looked calm and confident on the court, not the least bit scared of UCLA. But this thread is about Kolek so getting back to him...along with the awful shooting he seemed to telegraph his passes as well as other moves, including the several passes in the 2nd half that quickly resulted in yet another UCLA run.
Now about you looking like the poster child for peace and calm? Thanks for the laugh!
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Tower
Kolek was extremely sloppy for a stretch last night and it hurt the team. He needs to cleanup passing every bit as much as improving his shooting in BE play. I do not see anyway that he does not play a ton of minutes all season and he has to make better decisions.
I will add, that was men playing boys last night and that is facts of life. They looked spooked by the bright lights and then the poor shooting became contagious. Chalk it up to playing against a big time team.
I hate losing and hate being out of game in ten minutes into even more. No silver linings IMO and hopefully they learn from it.
We agree. I have criticized Kolek's pass choices, said he will continue to play big minutes, and that it was men against boys.
Last night hurt, but I am firmly committed to process this season.
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Last night hurt, but I am firmly committed to process this season.
Why haven’t you said so before??
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then MU is in big trouble.
…the HC’s last name is Smart. His coaching against Wisconsin and UCLA was anything but. Granted, it’s a flawed roster, but I’m quite interested to observe how the coach works things in BE play.
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”
This team is only in "big trouble" to those who expected us to get to the Sweet Sixteen. Unfortunately, we are not good enough to contend for anything. I love the optimism some have shown, and I'm an optimistic guy, but I'll keep going back to that Shaka quote because it's 100% true.
Shaka promised nothing for this season other than hard work and culture-building, nothing other than getting that drip-by-drip process going in the right direction.
That's what you get when your program was a dumpster fire 9 months ago, when only one starter and two deep-bench subs return from the previous season, when you try to blend a bunch of disparate parts, when you have no go-to guys, and when you have a talent shortage compared to many opponents (let alone a Final Four team like UCLA).
As I said earlier, I haven't given a lot of thought yet to how we'll do in conference play, but it's OK with me if we don't make the NCAAs as long as we put in the foundation to be a perennial NCAA team.
So far, at 8-3 and with a team showing a lot of fight, I've been pleasantly surprised. Even last night, that could have been a 40-point loss, but after being blitzed early, MU didn't roll over against one of the best teams in the country. When a program is in the stage of building that Marquette is, there are moral victories.
As for this specific thread, Kolek needs to do the things he does well better than he has the last few games IMHO. Otherwise, I trust Shaka to play those who give us the best chance to succeed, not just in an individual game but in building the kind of program he was hired to build. Those who want to believe Shaka is stoopid ... I'm not gonna bother trying to convince them otherwise.
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What persuades you that Kolek is a shooter?
What Shaka says in the post-game radio. He is the best shooter in the drills they do.
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If you think Shaka is not playing for a bid you you are missing the mark. Of course things take time, but making the tournament is part of that process. I do not think being a flawed team means you accept mediocrity. Shaka has played every loss to the finish for a reason and that is part of the process.
This team is not going to make anyone forget any of the great teams in program history, but I still believe it will be remembered as the team that created the foundation for winning.
You said yesterday that losing by five would not be a moral victory and I agree. A moral victory will be stealing three BE games and getting into the dance. Winning is part of the process, they already have 3-4 wins that they willed themselves to a W.
Lastly, I would be floored if this team went to S16 and would be very disappointed if we do not get a bid. They are in far better position to achieve that then they were six weeks ago. I would say there has been zero instant gratification thus far, just some gut check W’s that were unexpected.
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What Shaka says in the post-game radio. He is the best shooter in the drills they do.
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Played with a lot of kids that were super in practice but once the lights were turned on they were nothing, he might be the same kid!
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If you think Shaka is not playing for a bid you you are missing the mark. Of course things take time, but making the tournament is part of that process. I do not think being a flawed team means you accept mediocrity. Shaka has played every loss to the finish for a reason and that is part of the process.
This team is not going to make anyone forget any of the great teams in program history, but I still believe it will be remembered as the team that created the foundation for winning.
You said yesterday that losing by five would not be a moral victory and I agree. A moral victory will be stealing three BE games and getting into the dance. Winning is part of the process, they already have 3-4 wins that they willed themselves to a W.
Lastly, I would be floored if this team went to S16 and would be very disappointed if we do not get a bid. They are in far better position to achieve that then they were six weeks ago. I would say there has been zero instant gratification thus far, just some gut check W’s that were unexpected.
You are a little more optimistic about this team's tourney chances than I am, but I think we basically agree on most of this, Goose.
I also believe this season is all about creating the foundation for winning.
Of course Shaka is trying to win every game. Of course he is not "accepting mediocrity." But unlike fans, most of whom are very myopic and "what have you done for me lately," a first-year coach who has the commitment of his bosses also thinks about the big picture with every decision he makes.
I don't remember the "moral victory" quote you're attributing to me. I went back and looked at my posts from the last 3 days and couldn't find it, so you might be thinking of what somebody else said.
We Are Marquette!
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What Shaka says in the post-game radio. He is the best shooter in the drills they do.
We have 33 games played, including 29 starts, plus 279 field goal attempts, 198 of them from three, that tell a different story.
I'm weighing that evidence quite a bit more heavily than word-of-mouth about practice drills. Even if he lights it up in practice ... who cares? It's obviously not translating to the games. Maybe it will eventually, but nothing from those 33 games and 279 shots taken says Tyler Kolek is a shooter.
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Perhaps I should share one of my meditation sessions with TK?
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My bad, you said you would not celebrate a bad loss. As a follow up to my last post, I really have little interest in celebrating an overachieving team, but this is one year I will do it. Shaka has one year to build a culture and create excitement in the program and the bar gets raised from me.
I said a month ago that this reminds me of KO’s first year in some regards. Shaka is building excitement and goodwill with the fan base which was needed. Big difference between the two, KO was not ten year + HC with past success. Drop- drip for Shaka should be higher than if they hired a stiff assistant coach. KO was not a stiff, but he inherited a program on life support.
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My bad, you said you would not celebrate a bad loss. As a follow up to my last post, I really have little interest in celebrating an overachieving team, but this is one year I will do it. Shaka has one year to build a culture and create excitement in the program and the bar gets raised from me.
I said a month ago that this reminds me of KO’s first year in some regards. Shaka is building excitement and goodwill with the fan base which was needed. Big difference between the two, KO was not ten year + HC with past success. Drop- drip for Shaka should be higher than if they hired a stiff assistant coach. KO was not a stiff, but he inherited a program on life support.
Reasonable. We are in agreement.
The only thing we disagree on a bit right now is this team's ceiling. You are convinced it's an NCAA tournament team and I am not.
I hope you're right!
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I’m not convinced they are a tournament team but am convinced we hired a coach to make that happen. This is a flawed team and needs to claw out victories until the shooting improves. A lot money was invested in Shaka and that is the bar I am using for this year. While I am not convinced they are tournament caliber, I am convinced they will make it. Plenty of flawed teams play in March and Shaka needs to find way to make it happen.
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I’m not convinced they are a tournament team but am convinced we hired a coach to make that happen. This is a flawed team and needs to claw out victories until the shooting improves. A lot money was invested in Shaka and that is the bar I am using for this year. While I am not convinced they are tournament caliber, I am convinced they will make it. Plenty of flawed teams play in March and Shaka needs to find way to make it happen.
OK, thanks for making that distinction. I assumed you believed that the coach was part of the "team," as it is the team he put together playing the system he wants to play, so my apologies for assuming that.
I am not convinced Shaka has the horses to make it happen this season, but I'm very hopeful that this will be the building-block season this program desperately needed.
I do believe that you and I hope for the same things from our coach and our program.
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The trouble with Tyler right now is that there's no one else on the roster capable of being anything closely resembling a facilitator on offense. So, Shaka & Co. need to get Kolek right ASAP or it's going to be a rough conference season.
What about Morsell? Or Jones? Or Ellis? Or Mitchell?
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What about Morsell? Or Jones? Or Ellis? Or Mitchell?
IMO maybe, no, no and no.
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What about Morsell? Or Jones? Or Ellis? Or Mitchell?
No.
No.
Maybe in 2-3 years.
Maybe next year or, being very optimistic, March.
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We have 33 games played, including 29 starts, plus 279 field goal attempts, 198 of them from three, that tell a different story.
I'm weighing that evidence quite a bit more heavily than word-of-mouth about practice drills. Even if he lights it up in practice ... who cares? It's obviously not translating to the games. Maybe it will eventually, but nothing from those 33 games and 279 shots taken says Tyler Kolek is a shooter.
He had 150 attempts last year where he shot 36% from 3. He’s not Markus, but that’s not some terrible percentage. And not a tiny sample set. He’s been really bad for huge stretches this year. But he was 2-3 from deep against Illinois. 4-8 against WVU. That with the season at George Mason show me he may not be a sniper but he’s got the ability to be a capable shooter, he’s just a mess right now.
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He had 150 attempts last year where he shot 36% from 3. He’s not Markus, but that’s not some terrible percentage. And not a tiny sample set. He’s been really bad for huge stretches this year. But he was 2-3 from deep against Illinois. 4-8 against WVU. That with the season at George Mason show me he may not be a sniper but he’s got the ability to be a capable shooter, he’s just a mess right now.
36% is thoroughly average, not a "shooter."
For perspective, recent 36% three-point shooters at MU include Dawson Garcia, Sandy Cohen, Duane Wilson (14-15 which was his best season in that category) and Jamil Wilson.
Which of these guys would we say "that kid's a shooter."
And let's not forget, his 36% was against A-10 competition. He's taken a big step up this year (go look at George Mason's nonconference schedule last year).
Nobody is saying the kid's shot is irredeemable or anything, but maybe let's ease off the notion that he's a gifted three-point shooter who should have the green light to just keep firing away until he magically rights himself. Maybe this is just who he is and he needs to find other ways to impact the game.
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Everybody has the green light.
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No.
No.
Maybe in 2-3 years.
Maybe next year or, being very optimistic, March.
Then Shaka has to recruit better. More college ready players that can be dominant. I thought Morsel would lead them. He's not a shooter.
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Until he recruits a 5 star player, then I will be impressed with Shaka’s recruiting ability. Right now he recruited decent kids but no one outstanding. The 2 for next year look good, but not rated that high. Next year has some big weaknesses still to solve, hope he finds a grad transfer.
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BC
He has been one of the most successful recruiters over the past seven years, why question his recruiting? Recruiting would be far down my list of concerns.
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He’s no longer at Texas, Wojo killed the program, was not able to turn Bond or Trimble. He will get players, not worried about that either, but needs to get a player that could be a game changer.
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BC
IMO great recruiters can recruit anywhere. I feel good about him getting a game changer and think that will happen in free agency recruiting.
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36% is thoroughly average, not a "shooter."
For perspective, recent 36% three-point shooters at MU include Dawson Garcia, Sandy Cohen, Duane Wilson (14-15 which was his best season in that category) and Jamil Wilson.
Which of these guys would we say "that kid's a shooter."
And let's not forget, his 36% was against A-10 competition. He's taken a big step up this year (go look at George Mason's nonconference schedule last year).
Nobody is saying the kid's shot is irredeemable or anything, but maybe let's ease off the notion that he's a gifted three-point shooter who should have the green light to just keep firing away until he magically rights himself. Maybe this is just who he is and he needs to find other ways to impact the game.
Again, nobody is saying he is Markus, I never used “gifted”. But he’s had a season of competent enough 3P shooting, and even in games against legit competition this year has shot well at times. Plus Shaka sees him every day shooting in practice, seemingly quite well. That’s enough for Shaka to think he’ll get through it.
If he had the ability or potential to be a Jamil or Duane, nobody would be all that worried. The discussion here seems to be around people thinking that he’s really a 20-25% 3P shooter which I do not think is at all accurate
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He’s probably just not used to the shooting background
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He’s probably just not used to the shooting background
According to Dodds all he needs is a few more months of practice at the FF.
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Panda ... u posing as DODDS ??
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According to Dodds all he needs is a few more months of practice at the FF.
Just another one of his lazy tropes which makes him think he's some sort of expert.
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If you had told me that we'd have a point guard that would be dishing out assists at a 5.6 apg rate (leading the Big East) while maintaining better than a 2-1 A/T ratio, I would have been thrilled. If his current rate holds up, Tyler's season is going to wind up 7th or 8th best assist performance all-time at MU.
I'd love for him to get back to his career average 3 point shooting. But I simply can't understand why so many people, a handful of games into his MU career, are talking about him as if he's a failed experiment that needs to be recruited over.
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He also plays the passing lanes defensively as well as anyone on the team, while being serviceable on the ball.
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If you had told me that we'd have a point guard that would be dishing out assists at a 5.6 apg rate (leading the Big East) while maintaining better than a 2-1 A/T ratio, I would have been thrilled. If his current rate holds up, Tyler's season is going to wind up 7th or 8th best assist performance all-time at MU.
I'd love for him to get back to his career average 3 point shooting. But I simply can't understand why so many people, a handful of games into his MU career, are talking about him as if he's a failed experiment that needs to be recruited over.
It's what fans do: Build up ... tear down.
A few weeks ago, Kolek was Travis Diener and Steve Nash. ... Now he's Derrick Wilson.
The truth is probably somewhere in between. Or perhaps even more accurately, his grade is "incomplete."
However, if you want to be a successful team in today's college basketball, usually your PG either needs to be a scoring threat or he needs to have so much shooting surrounding him that you can have a pass-only guy. Best of all, you have a PG who's a scoring threat AND you have a ton of shooting surrounding him. UCLA, already pretty darn good, is that much better now that Campbell can shoot.
I happen to think it's OK to be concerned about Kolek's poor shooting while also not determining right now that he is a failure.
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He is the PG of an 8-3 team. He has contributed a lot. Right now he is in a shooting slump. He will continue to start. He will continue to shoot. Hopefully, he sees one go in and all of the tumblers fall back into place.
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He is the PG of an 8-3 team. He has contributed a lot. Right now he is in a shooting slump. He will continue to start. He will continue to shoot. Hopefully, he sees one go in and all of the tumblers fall back into place.
Yep. Hopefully in a couple weeks this is a complete non issue. If he gets going, you can see that he will have a significant impact on winning games.
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Morsell and Kolek have shown they are both capable of being really good against quality opponents. Early in the year DM was much more under control off the dribble and let the game come to him. He is more than capable of playing at the level we saw the first four games.
Kolek has to be able to score the ball at a reasonable clip for his entire offensive game to be effective. He is a terrific passer, defender, and a capable shooter. This is a mental/confidence issue with his shot. He will break out and most likely vs Xavier.
Shaka and the coaching staff must find a way to get both of these guys and our whole team higher quality shots in our half-court offense. It's imperative and non-negotiable. I would make a concerted effort to get Kolek and Morsell paint attempts. They are both capable of getting into the paint, relaxing, using proper footwork and a shot fake, and getting clean looks from 8 feet or kicking when a help defender comes. Instead the fundamentals have been poor, they are often out of control, and the assertiveness isn't there. It's on Shaka to fix our half-court issues on offense ASAP. I expect will will be better on Saturday.
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Quick open threes are better shots than well defended shots in the paint. Well defended shots are all guys have been able to get in the paint lately
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Quick open threes are better shots than well defended shots in the paint. Well defended shots are all guys have been able to get in the paint lately
What about undefended shots in the paint? If memory serves, when we got it to 11 in the 2nd half, JLew took a quick three from beyond the top of the key, and the result was brick city/no chance of momentum/ game over.
It is incumbent on Shaka and our coaching staff to get better shots for our guys in the half-court offense. It's painful to watch and there are ways to attack the paint with both the pass and dribble. Our spacing isn't there, our movement off the ball and screening is suspect, and we are too easy to guard and one-dimensional. We need more balance in our offense and better shot selection. For the most part we do not get quality shots, that's just a fact. The coaches need to find solutions imo.
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
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UWW
I agree with every word on your post.
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What about undefended shots in the paint? If memory serves, when we got it to 11 in the 2nd half, JLew took a quick three from beyond the top of the key, and the result was brick city/no chance of momentum/ game over.
It is incumbent on Shaka and our coaching staff to get better shots for our guys in the half-court offense. It's painful to watch and there are ways to attack the paint with both the pass and dribble. Our spacing isn't there, our movement off the ball and screening is suspect, and we are too easy to guard and one-dimensional. We need more balance in our offense and better shot selection. For the most part we do not get quality shots, that's just a fact. The coaches need to find solutions imo.
What undefended shots in the paint? UCLA smothered them and every time they tried at the hoop it was either well defended or a turnover.
Muggsy, Shaka has a system. The system is not changing. The purpose of this season is not to win, it is to establish a culture that Shaka will build upon every season so that each season is better than the last. He's not gonna scrap his system because his first team, a team that was picked second to last in conference, lost by 11 to the #4 team in the country. The more these guys play within the system, the simpler it will become to them and then they will be able to execute it more effectively. The drives will result in more open looks at the hoop, the kicks will end up in the shooting pocket more often, the next passes will be crisper, and the threes will go down more. The only thing that will cure what ails us is experience which is lengthy process, not a quick fix.
We've already seen the defense improve as the season has gone on. I believe the offense will as well.
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
Amen, UWW. I'm not as high on Kolek as some of the people who were crowning him after the West Virginia, but I'm certainly nowhere near the people who have declared him a benchwarmer after UCLA. People who think he needs to benched seem to only be interested in points and turnovers. It is very clear the value he brings to the team, even when he's not scoring. He gets his shot sorted and we have a very good floor general to work with.
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
Kolek won’t get his shot square with that release. It’s difficult on tv, easier in person, but try to notice how the ball comes off his hand with a side rotation. I have no doubt he’ll have decent games shooting. He had some good scoring games last season, in fact. But consistent shooting…40%?…probably not. He’s tenacious. Plays with a chip on his shoulder. 20 minutes per game guy? Yes! 30+ minutes guy? Rimming.
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
Not sure about tournament caliber at this point. However, the ONLY way we get to that level is with Kolek continuing to shoot the ball. He’s in a bad slump to be sure, but shooters break out of slumps by (wait for it) continuing to shoot. If he becomes tentative and unwilling to shoot, there isn’t going to be much suspense on selection Sunday. There is nobody else that can play his role as well as he can.
Keep your head up and keep firing away knowing that the next one is going in. That’s the attitude he needs to have and what the coaches need to instill in him for this team to be successful. I hope it happens soon.
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Pointing out Kolek is a pretty bad offensive player right now isn’t burying the kid.
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Pointing out Kolek is a pretty bad offensive player right now isn’t burying the kid.
Why must you continually try to pin him to the bench?
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
Well done. 100% agree
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This thread makes my eyes bleed.
I love this kids game... he's sharp, can see the floor, is tenacious and a hawk for the ball, and he can dish like no one MU has seen in YEARS. Some people here seem spoiled by our over achieving start and seem to forget themselves. Don't forget, we weren't supposed to be sitting here at the end of OOC play at 8-3.
Kolek will get his shot square, at least to be an average shooter. The cross court passes that worked in A10 and early season games will be tweaked as he learns a higher level of play. All will be good. I've seen steady improvement from literally everyone on this team except maybe Morsell, but even he has contributed so much on defense and helping the young guys learn from him that his impact is tremendous.
Everyone who's trying to bench Kolek should turn around and take a seat. Let the professionals continue to work with this team as they know how and continue to watch this team blossom into what I believe will be a tournament caliber team by years end.
I don't think many here are calling for Kolek to be benched. I think those of us whose eyes are bleeding from his shooting performance the last two weeks (2-for-26 from the floor) are just suggesting that - contrary to many opinions here - the solution isn't to keep firing up shots until they magically start falling.
Kolek does a lot of things well and he's really the team's only option at the point. He should continue to do those things. And if the staff wants to run some plays for him to get some open looks, great. But what shouldn't happen is forcing the notion that he's a "shooter" who ought to keep chucking with abandon. Get him some open looks, and if the shots start dropping, loosen the shackles. But for now, just let him focus on what he's doing well.
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Why must you continually try to pin him to the bench?
He reminds me of Travis Diener
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He’s in a bad slump to be sure, but shooters break out of slumps by (wait for it) continuing to shoot.
I keep seeing this ... but on what are you basing the belief that Kolek is a shooter? Nothing on his college resume to date suggests that. His resume suggests he's a solid point guard with an inconsistent shot.
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Why must you continually try to pin him to the bench?
Giving Uncle Rico the Uncle Rico treatment. Nice.
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Shaka has a system. The system is not changing. The purpose of this season is not to win, it is to establish a culture that Shaka will build upon every season so that each season is better than the last. He's not gonna scrap his system because his first team, a team that was picked second to last in conference, lost by 11 to the #4 team in the country. The more these guys play within the system, the simpler it will become to them and then they will be able to execute it more effectively. The only thing that will cure what ails us is experience which is lengthy process, not a quick fix.
This, this, a thousand times this.
And this doesn't mean Shaka isn't trying to win each game as he prepares for it and coaches in it. He is a coach, and he absolutely wants to win. That's how coaches are wired.
It means he is not gonna say, "Screw the system I know works; screw everything I'm trying to build long-term; let's go away from what I know works in hopes that something different wins us this game."
Shaka is playing the long game, and if playing the long game plays a role in costing us an NCAA bid this season while getting us NCAA bids in 7 of the next 8 years, including a couple/few second-weekend (and maybe a FF?), he's willing to make that sacrifice. As a fan of Marquette hoops for 45 years, I'm willing to make that sacrifice, too.
One of the constant -- and accurate -- criticisms of Wojo was that he "didn't establish a culture." Let's let this coach, one with a proven winning formula (albeit with no NCAAT success for 8 years), establish his culture. As difficult as it might be, let's try not to react to an 11-point loss to a Final Four team by thinking we know more about this team than the coach does.
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What undefended shots in the paint? UCLA smothered them and every time they tried at the hoop it was either well defended or a turnover.
Muggsy, Shaka has a system. The system is not changing. The purpose of this season is not to win, it is to establish a culture that Shaka will build upon every season so that each season is better than the last. He's not gonna scrap his system because his first team, a team that was picked second to last in conference, lost by 11 to the #4 team in the country. The more these guys play within the system, the simpler it will become to them and then they will be able to execute it more effectively. The drives will result in more open looks at the hoop, the kicks will end up in the shooting pocket more often, the next passes will be crisper, and the threes will go down more. The only thing that will cure what ails us is experience which is lengthy process, not a quick fix.
We've already seen the defense improve as the season has gone on. I believe the offense will as well.
While I mostly agree with this assessment and have to catch my fandom from getting in the way...Shaka's system isn't just his long term system. It's changed since Texas where he had a big man half court game too.
We'd knew there is a lack of offensive talent going into the season so I need to bite my tongue as the newcomers adapt. However, going all in on Nevada Smith concepts at this point is a rough road. There has to be a deeper focus on efficiency if you don't have the talent. We are playing way too fast for this roster. Already, this offense is less efficient than Wojo's first season and is the worst going back to 2000, CTC's first year (and trending below that).
This idea that Shaka's not going to change and won't be more adaptable has me concerned. This roster is built for defense and it shows. Rough seas ahead.
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I keep seeing this ... but on what are you basing the belief that Kolek is a shooter? Nothing on his college resume to date suggests that. His resume suggests he's a solid point guard with an inconsistent shot.
My eye test of course!
Listen, I didn't say he's a good shooter, but as our starting point guard and guy who's going to play 30+ minutes every game, the guy needs to keep shooting. If he becomes tentative and passes up good shots it's not going to help the team...in fact it will do the opposite.
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While I mostly agree with this assessment and have to catch my fandom from getting in the way...Shaka's system isn't just his long term system. It's changed since Texas where he had a big man half court game too.
We'd knew there is a lack of offensive talent going into the season so I need to bite my tongue as the newcomers adapt. However, going all in on Nevada Smith concepts at this point is a rough road. There has to be a deeper focus on efficiency if you don't have the talent. We are playing way too fast for this roster. Already, this offense is less efficient than Wojo's first season and is the worst going back to 2000, CTC's first year (and trending below that).
This idea that Shaka's not going to change and won't be more adaptable has me concerned. This roster is built for defense and it shows. Rough seas ahead.
They are playing too fast for this roster. But IMO this is where the lack of experience is an issue. They haven't quite figured out when to take their foot off the gas and slow it down. Taking a good shot early in the clock is just fine. Taking a contested one is not. Understanding the difference is where the problem lies IMO.
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TAMU
I agree Shaka is creating a system and culture and that is a top priority. Only argument, in today's game there is going to be so much turnover in players that I do not believe you solely focus on a system like you would have a few years ago. I have no idea how many guys will still be at MU in 2-3 years, but it might not be many. I am a system guy 100% and I hope he does not change his system, because it is my style of play and believe it will be proven correct down the road.
I believe that winning this year is as much as the culture as the system will be. He is not going change the game plan but IMO this season is about winning. It is not about playing for S16 or further, but playing opening weekend is a big part of the culture being built.
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My eye test of course!
Listen, I didn't say he's a good shooter, but as our starting point guard and guy who's going to play 30+ minutes every game, the guy needs to keep shooting. If he becomes tentative and passes up good shots it's not going to help the team...in fact it will do the opposite.
Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team.
See: Tony Miller
See: Dominic James
See: Junior Cadougan
I do understand that these players had more offensive talent around them than Kolek does now, but I don't see that as a reason to force Kolek to be something he may not be. By all means, if his shooting comes along in small doses, then loosen the reins. But his shooting is absolutely hurting the team right now - and on Saturday, at least, appeared to be affecting the rest of his game for the worse. Let him play to his strengths for a while, get his confidence back up and see what happens.
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Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team.
See: Tony Miller
See: Dominic James
See: Junior Cadougan
I do understand that these players had more offensive talent around them than Kolek does now, but I don't see that as a reason to force Kolek to be something he may not be. By all means, if his shooting comes along in small doses, then loosen the reins. But his shooting is absolutely hurting the team right now - and on Saturday, at least, appeared to be affecting the rest of his game for the worse. Let him play to his strengths for a while, get his confidence back up and see what happens.
You forgot Derrick Wilson
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We'd knew there is a lack of offensive talent going into the season so I need to bite my tongue as the newcomers adapt. However, going all in on Nevada Smith concepts at this point is a rough road. There has to be a deeper focus on efficiency if you don't have the talent. We are playing way too fast for this roster. Already, this offense is less efficient than Wojo's first season and is the worst going back to 2000, CTC's first year (and trending below that).
This idea that Shaka's not going to change and won't be more adaptable has me concerned. This roster is built for defense and it shows. Rough seas ahead.
I don't think anyone on the staff is happy with the way they're executing right now. I do think we'll see some tweaks made, but the kids gotta apply it when it's showtime.
What I see is a team given a significant amount of freedom offensively, with a framework that pushes pace and taking threes. They're young and exuberant, and haven't figured out how to corral it. They're prone to panicking when pushed by a more physical defense, and settle for rushed threes.
They figured it out to a degree against K-State. Second half offense was far more efficient. Saturday was a step back.
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Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team.
See: Tony Miller
See: Dominic James
See: Junior Cadougan
I do understand that these players had more offensive talent around them than Kolek does now, but I don't see that as a reason to force Kolek to be something he may not be. By all means, if his shooting comes along in small doses, then loosen the reins. But his shooting is absolutely hurting the team right now - and on Saturday, at least, appeared to be affecting the rest of his game for the worse. Let him play to his strengths for a while, get his confidence back up and see what happens.
Want to further kill a kid's confidence? "Hey Tyler, you aren't shooting very well so we want you to shoot less." He's not a 20% 3 point shooter. He's in a slump. Period. I mean did you enjoy watching the Derrick Wilson years when teams didn't even defend him outside the 3 point line and packed the paint? That's essentially what you are asking for here. Teams have, will, and will continue to try to close out on Kolek if he keeps shooting.
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Want to further kill a kid's confidence? "Hey Tyler, you aren't shooting very well so we want you to shoot less." He's not a 20% 3 point shooter. He's in a slump. Period. I mean did you enjoy watching the Derrick Wilson years when teams didn't even defend him outside the 3 point line and packed the paint? That's essentially what you are asking for here. Teams have, will, and will continue to try to close out on Kolek if he keeps shooting.
He is what his numbers say he is. I don’t care if he keeps shooting if that’s what the staff wants. I don’t believe he’s a 20% shooter either but if he stays around that number, teams won’t defend him if he’s shooting or not.
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Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team.
See: Tony Miller
See: Dominic James
See: Junior Cadougan
I do understand that these players had more offensive talent around them than Kolek does now, but I don't see that as a reason to force Kolek to be something he may not be. By all means, if his shooting comes along in small doses, then loosen the reins. But his shooting is absolutely hurting the team right now - and on Saturday, at least, appeared to be affecting the rest of his game for the worse. Let him play to his strengths for a while, get his confidence back up and see what happens.
Good point, except Dom still hoisted up around 10 shots a game as a senior, while Tyler is only jacking up around 8
Not sure about usage%, as I am too lazy to look
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Good point, except Dom still hoisted up around 10 shots a game as a senior, while Tyler is only jacking up around 8
Not sure about usage%, as I am too lazy to look
DJ had 12.7 FGA per 40 minutes, with 40 percent of his shots beyond the arc. Kolek is at 10.1 per 40, with 62 percent beyond the art.
DJ's usage senior year was 20.7. Kolek's is 18.8.
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Kolek doesn't need to be a good shooter to be a really solid PG for this team. But woof, his shot is atrocious right now. Shaka seems confident in him, and I am sure it'll come around as he continues to adapt to the speed of play. But I don't expect him to ever be much of a scorer in his time at MU.
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Want to further kill a kid's confidence? "Hey Tyler, you aren't shooting very well so we want you to shoot less."
If coaching is the thing that's going to kill his confidence - as opposed to, I don't know, missing 24 of his last 26 shots - then maybe he shouldn't be playing high major D1 ball.
You think Tom Izzo frets over Joey Hauser's confidence every time he subs him out?
The coaching staff's job is to put players (and the tam as a whole) in position to succeed. Telling a kid who's not just missing, but missing badly, to keep shooting regardless of the result doesn't do put him or the team in a position to succeed.
Let Kolek succeed at what he's doing well now - distributing, playing defense - and work to get him to easy shots, but giving him free rein to keep chucking helps no one.
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DJ had 12.7 FGA per 40 minutes, with 40 percent of his shots beyond the arc. Kolek is at 10.1 per 40, with 62 percent beyond the art.
DJ's usage senior year was 20.7. Kolek's is 18.8.
Thanks. I would argue DJ would be a bad example for your theory then. He seemed to put up a lot of shots despite not shooting well.
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If coaching is the thing that's going to kill his confidence - as opposed to, I don't know, missing 24 of his last 26 shots - then maybe he shouldn't be playing high major D1 ball.
You think Tom Izzo frets over Joey Hauser's confidence every time he subs him out?
The coaching staff's job is to put players (and the tam as a whole) in position to succeed. Telling a kid who's not just missing, but missing badly, to keep shooting regardless of the result doesn't do put him or the team in a position to succeed.
Let Kolek succeed at what he's doing well now - distributing, playing defense - and work to get him to easy shots, but giving him free rein to keep chucking helps no one.
You do realize that he's playing PG, and it is he who is working to get other's easy shots? So, the idea of working to get him easy shots doesn't really work. - unless Shaka wants to play him at the 2 Guard..which isn't going to happen as Stevie isn't quite ready to be a PG.
Shaka believes in Kolek, and shooting 35% on 3's as a Freshman on 151 attempts is enough of a sample size to know he's a better shooter. 35% is respectable. He's 1 of 16 from 3 in the last 3 games. Bump that to 35% clip and he makes 4.5 more = 13.5 more points.
Tyler is a competitor and this slump is no doubt frustrating him. A SMART coach doesn't add to that frustration by telling him to shoot less.
Regarding Joey Hauser...he's ultimately a more soft/sensitive guy. I wouldn't say Izzo's coaching has worked very well as it relates to getting good results from Joey.
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They are playing too fast for this roster. But IMO this is where the lack of experience is an issue. They haven't quite figured out when to take their foot off the gas and slow it down. Taking a good shot early in the clock is just fine. Taking a contested one is not. Understanding the difference is where the problem lies IMO.
I agree. It is most on display in my opinion when we get in transition and can to the 3 point line to fire up a 3. It works sometimes, but always seems like we are just firing one up just because we have an opening.
I’m sure Shaka doesn’t want us passing up good looks. But sometimes I think these good looks are more a sliver of daylight that we rush up a 3 because we think we are open. That’s where I think Kolek might be rushing things a bit.
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Amen, UWW. I'm not as high on Kolek as some of the people who were crowning him after the West Virginia, but I'm certainly nowhere near the people who have declared him a benchwarmer after UCLA. People who think he needs to benched seem to only be interested in points and turnovers. It is very clear the value he brings to the team, even when he's not scoring. He gets his shot sorted and we have a very good floor general to work with.
"Shaka has a system". "Shaka has a system" "Shaka has a system" Doesn't every coach "have a system"? Didn't Tom Crean give us the weave and heave? Did not his system work better with Wade, Diener, and Novak and then become an unmitigated disaster?? Are "systems:" not adaptable or tweaked to personnel?? If we had Shaq or Tim Duncan on our roster would we still run the same "system"?
I am hoping guys break out of their shooting woes and this may very well be the best system for this group. But why is it "we're going to play this way no matter what"under all circumstances and versus all opponents? Why is it that when I'm watching a game, and we are shooting 1-15 from three in the first 12 mins , under 15% for most of a half, that I and others should say to ourselves "it's the system" and this is the way we're gonna play every minute of every game?
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While I mostly agree with this assessment and have to catch my fandom from getting in the way...Shaka's system isn't just his long term system. It's changed since Texas where he had a big man half court game too.
We'd knew there is a lack of offensive talent going into the season so I need to bite my tongue as the newcomers adapt. However, going all in on Nevada Smith concepts at this point is a rough road. There has to be a deeper focus on efficiency if you don't have the talent. We are playing way too fast for this roster. Already, this offense is less efficient than Wojo's first season and is the worst going back to 2000, CTC's first year (and trending below that).
This idea that Shaka's not going to change and won't be more adaptable has me concerned. This roster is built for defense and it shows. Rough seas ahead.
The tempo is really interesting to me. He’s obviously way more to analytics then Wojo. The analytics would tell you to slow the tempo way down on Saturday. On the other hand, playing fast (and less efficient this season) is easier to sell to recruits and transfers. I don’t think he’s “tanking,” but might be more stubborn so he can sell the system to future players. Really I have no idea.
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"Shaka has a system". "Shaka has a system" "Shaka has a system" Doesn't every coach "have a system"? Didn't Tom Crean give us the weave and heave? Did not his system work better with Wade, Diener, and Novak and then become an unmitigated disaster?? Are "systems:" not adaptable or tweaked to personnel?? If we had Shaq or Tim Duncan on our roster would we still run the same "system"?
I am hoping guys break out of their shooting woes and this may very well be the best system for this group. But why is it "we're going to play this way no matter what"under all circumstances and versus all opponents? Why is it that when I'm watching a game, and we are shooting 1-15 from three in the first 12 mins , under 15% for most of a half, that I and others should say to ourselves "it's the system" and this is the way we're gonna play every minute of every game?
Every coach runs a basic, motion offense that has multiple options depending on the personnel on the floor, and has multiple sets that run through the offense.
I actually think when they slow down and are deliberate, they can get good looks. The shots just aren't falling. And no matter what system you run, if the shots aren't falling, you aren't going to win much.
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If coaching is the thing that's going to kill his confidence - as opposed to, I don't know, missing 24 of his last 26 shots - then maybe he shouldn't be playing high major D1 ball.
You think Tom Izzo frets over Joey Hauser's confidence every time he subs him out?
The coaching staff's job is to put players (and the tam as a whole) in position to succeed. Telling a kid who's not just missing, but missing badly, to keep shooting regardless of the result doesn't do put him or the team in a position to succeed.
Let Kolek succeed at what he's doing well now - distributing, playing defense - and work to get him to easy shots, but giving him free rein to keep chucking helps no one.
He's averaged 6.5 FGA over the last 4 games where he is 2/26. You really think taking 6 - 7 shots per game equates to "chucking"?
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Thanks. I would argue DJ would be a bad example for your theory then. He seemed to put up a lot of shots despite not shooting well.
I didn't say anything in my theory about shot volume. I said PGs who weren't great shooters. Shooting often does not make you a good shooter.
And a key difference here is where the shots are coming from.
Over his career, just 37.8% of DJ's shots were from beyond the arc.
So far this year, 61.7% of Kolek's shots are from deep. And that's trending upward ... since returning from Charleston, 73.5% of his shots are three attempts, including 16 of his last 18 attempts (88.9%), of which he's made one.
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Every coach runs a basic, motion offense that has multiple options depending on the personnel on the floor, and has multiple sets that run through the offense.
I actually think when they slow down and are deliberate, they can get good looks. The shots just aren't falling. And no matter what system you run, if the shots aren't falling, you aren't going to win much.
Perhaps you are right here. I still have no idea why we seem to be in a rush once we're operating versus a set defense. What I take issue with is this idea that if we don't jack up the first "open" shot, we can't get a better shot or the same "open" shot with a little more patience? This is a absurd. Whatever happened to player and ball movement? Can we not do this within Shaka's system? Isn't the goal to take the best shot available?
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Perhaps you are right here. I still have no idea why we seem to be in a rush once we're operating versus a set defense. What I take issue with is this idea that if we don't jack up the first "open" shot, we can't get a better shot or the same "open" shot with a little more patience? This is a absurd. Whatever happened to player and ball movement? Can we not do this within Shaka's system? Isn't the goal to take the best shot available?
Most coaches preach that during regular game-flow, you should take a good, open shot if it is available. Because, while more patience COULD result in a better shot, it may be that you just passed up the best shot available.
The problem is inexperienced players don't always know what "good" and "open" really mean.
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Most coaches preach that during regular game-flow, you should take a good, open shot if it is available. Because, while more patience COULD result in a better shot, it may be that you just passed up the best shot available.
Alright....maybe I'm overreacting a bit. I will try to be a little more patient despite not being pleased with Sat. night. :)
The problem is inexperienced players don't always know what "good" and "open" really mean.
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I didn't say anything in my theory about shot volume. I said PGs who weren't great shooters. Shooting often does not make you a good shooter.
And a key difference here is where the shots are coming from.
Over his career, just 37.8% of DJ's shots were from beyond the arc.
So far this year, 61.7% of Kolek's shots are from deep. And that's trending upward ... since returning from Charleston, 73.5% of his shots are three attempts, including 16 of his last 18 attempts (88.9%), of which he's made one.
That's the thing about writing versus speaking to someone. I read your line of: "Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team" to mean DJ did not shoot a lot.
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TAMU
I agree Shaka is creating a system and culture and that is a top priority. Only argument, in today's game there is going to be so much turnover in players that I do not believe you solely focus on a system like you would have a few years ago. I have no idea how many guys will still be at MU in 2-3 years, but it might not be many. I am a system guy 100% and I hope he does not change his system, because it is my style of play and believe it will be proven correct down the road.
I believe that winning this year is as much as the culture as the system will be. He is not going change the game plan but IMO this season is about winning. It is not about playing for S16 or further, but playing opening weekend is a big part of the culture being built.
Goose:
TAMU and I aren't saying Shaka doesn't care about winning games this season or that he's not trying to get to the NCAAs. But I, for one, firmly believe it is not his top priority, maybe even not in his top 3.
He wants to establish a culture of toughness, hard work and team-first mentality. He wants these kids to learn to play right on offense and defense -- and that means get instinctively great within his "system," for lack of better word. He wants to build their confidence so that, when this team is really good and something big is on the line, his players will respond confidently and effectively.
Within that framework, he definitely wants to win games, definitely wants to make the NCAA tournament. But he's simply not going to scrap what he believes in his heart will be good for the program long-term to try to beat Xavier on Saturday. He's not gonna bench Kolek and go with a triangle-and-2 just because it might help him win this particular game.
Yes, he wants to win at Xavier. He's a coach, he wants to win them all. But big picture, that's just not the most important thing to him in 2021-22. Nor should it be IMHO.
So I have to respectfully disagree that, to Shaka, "this season is about winning." IMHO, to him, it's about something way bigger than winning. It's about establishing a culture that helps us win for a decade, and he understands the growing pains involved. His quote in my tagline says it all. It's more than coach-speak; it's what he really believes.
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Muggsy
I think down the road the vast majority of MU fans are going to love the style of play at MU, appreciate it and find it very entertaining. It is not going to be pretty more nights than not this year and they are going to have to win some games with heart and luck. I am good with that. I am dreaming about the day when they have a couple of snipers that ring the bell in transition, or better yet, hit the trailer for a dunk because the D committed to guarding the three ball.
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That's the thing about writing versus speaking to someone. I read your line of: "Marquette has had plenty of success over the years with point guards who weren't great shooters but did other things well. And their lack of shooting/forcing up shots didn't hurt the team" to mean DJ did not shoot a lot.
I can see how I was less than clear.
To clarify, when I say someone is a "shooter," I'm talking about a player that consistently knocks down perimeter shots at an above average rate.
Markus Howard, Andrew Rowsey = shooters
Vander Blue, Dominic James = not shooters
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82
I have been preaching having a system and culture since year three of Wojo and I get it and love it. I agree it is very high priority to accomplish that this year and build a foundation. No argument. I am just not going to give Shaka a free pass on getting that done without emphasis on getting to the tournament. Also, as I said earlier, in today's game he might be teaching that system to 5-7 new guys every year. Winning is a habit and that is part of a culture. IMO, that has been accomplished thus far with the 8-3 record.
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Muggsy
I think down the road the vast majority of MU fans are going to love the style of play at MU, appreciate it and find it very entertaining. It is not going to be pretty more nights than not this year and they are going to have to win some games with heart and luck. I am good with that. I am dreaming about the day when they have a couple of snipers that ring the bell in transition, or better yet, hit the trailer for a dunk because the D committed to guarding the three ball.
That's totally fair Goose. I may have gotten carried away. It usually takes me some time to get over dismal performances. :)
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82
I have been preaching having a system and culture since year three of Wojo and I get it and love it. I agree it is very high priority to accomplish that this year and build a foundation. No argument. I am just not going to give Shaka a free pass on getting that done without emphasis on getting to the tournament. Also, as I said earlier, in today's game he might be teaching that system to 5-7 new guys every year. Winning is a habit and that is part of a culture. IMO, that has been accomplished thus far with the 8-3 record.
OK, I think we mostly agree. I do think you actually place a greater emphasis on getting to the tournament this year than Shaka does.
Question, though: What does not giving him a free pass entail? I mean, you're not gonna get down on him; he's your guy. You're not gonna stop being a fan; it's a big part of you. There's an implied "or else," but I'm guessing you just mean that you'll be disappointed.
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82
Not get down on him? If he proves he cannot get the job done, I will be the first guy to get down on him. My bar for Shaka is higher than anyone on here and I will hold true to that. If you do not think he has put emphasis on the tournament this year, you did not watch the final minutes of the three losses very closely. The only time he has made any adjustments was cutting big deficits late in the three losses.
I will say that the early season success may have adjusted his March thought process. If we were sitting at 5-6 things might have played out differently in those losses.
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The only time he has made any adjustments was cutting big deficits late in the three losses.
Entertaining. That was more a result of the other teams letting up with the games not in doubt.
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Rocky
Yeah, that was other teams letting up and us play catch up. How do you explain the last two minutes of the UCLA game?
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82
Not get down on him? If he proves he cannot get the job done, I will be the first guy to get down on him. My bar for Shaka is higher than anyone on here and I will hold true to that. If you do not think he has put emphasis on the tournament this year, you did not watch the final minutes of the three losses very closely. The only time he has made any adjustments was cutting big deficits late in the three losses.
I will say that the early season success may have adjusted his March thought process. If we were sitting at 5-6 things might have played out differently in those losses.
I have little doubt that if you and I were discussing this over a delicious craft beer, we'd be agreeing on 99.9% of this stuff, but I think something's getting lost in the translation here.
I am NOT saying Shaka doesn't care about winning, doesn't care about the tournament, isn't trying to keep us from losing by too much because of the idiotic NET system, etc. In fact, I have said he does care about those things because he is a coach, and coaches are wired to care very much about them.
I am saying that simply is not his priority for this season, which is about building, building, building -- as he himself has said literally dozens of times.
If Shaka "proves he cannot get the job done," you won't be the first to get on his case; you'll be one in a long, long line of Scoopers and other alums. I mean, from the tone of some comments already, several folks are at the head of that line.
I, for one, won't consider missing the NCAA tournament in Year 1 of his program as proof he cannot get the job done. I guess I'm too effen nice. As for you ripping Shaka a new one if we're only an NIT team this season ... I'll believe it when I see it. I hope that's not what you'll do, but it appears to be what you're saying.
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How do you explain the last two minutes of the UCLA game?
In the last 2 minutes the score went from 63-50, to 67-56. We gained exactly 2 points on them. Mind blowing, eh! Here's the play by play to help you out.
https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/stats/2021-22/ucla/boxscore/8974
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rocky
You are correct and that happened for a reason. They got it to a manageable deficit and made sure it stayed there. No crazy fouls, let the shot clock wind down and keep the score close. The last two minutes verified to me that Shaka is playing the computer ranking game.
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I am saying that simply is not his priority for this season, which is about building, building, building -- as he himself has said literally dozens of times.
I'm legitimately confused about why building a culture is seen as a somewhat mutually exclusive proposition to having a tourney team this year. Or how attempting to do one somehow makes the other harder.
Looking at some of the other first-year coaches this year, I don't see them taking the approach that winning right away is counterproductive to long-term success. Chris Beard, TJ Otzelberger, Porter Moser, Mike Woodson, Tommy Lloyd, etc., all seem like they want to win this year.
FWIW, I agree with Goose here. I think Shaka very much wants to win this year, and I don't think he believes winning now in any way impedes long-term success or culture building.
Isn't winning the best way to build a winning culture?
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I'm legitimately confused about why building a culture is seen as a somewhat mutually exclusive proposition to having a tourney team this year. Or how attempting to do one somehow makes the other harder.
Looking at some of the other first-year coaches this year, I don't see them taking the approach that winning right away is counterproductive to long-term success. Chris Beard, TJ Otzelberger, Porter Moser, Mike Woodson, Tommy Lloyd, etc., all seem like they want to win this year.
FWIW, I agree with Goose here. I think Shaka very much wants to win this year, and I don't think he believes winning now in any way impedes long-term success or culture building.
Isn't winning the best way to build a winning culture?
Well, let's say that this particular team would have a better chance of winning more Big East games this season if it played a different offensive system, one that didn't involve early 3s being taken by a team that lacks 3-point shooters. But he truly believes this is the system that, long-term, will suit the Marquette program well.
Or let's say that he might think that benching the PG who can't shoot and who is starting to throw the ball all over the place might help him win a game, but he doesn't want to destroy the kid's confidence for the future.
Those kinds of things ... but I do agree it's a fine line.
I truly think if Shaka was asked, off the record and just shooting the shyte, he would say, "Hell yes, of course I want to win this year, but it's really about next year and the year after that." But maybe not.
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82
Winning this year is bucking the odds and making the tournament. Winning in 2-3 sure as hell better look more appealing than that. A winning culture is the foundation of building this program. Truthfully, I think so many on here have forgotten what winning looks like and wants to prepare themselves for the failure that might come down the road. I have not forgotten what it looks like, even after the seven year probation period we had with no NCAA wins.
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82
Winning this year is bucking the odds and making the tournament. Winning in 2-3 sure as hell better look more appealing than that. A winning culture is the foundation of building this program. Truthfully, I think so many on here have forgotten what winning looks like and wants to prepare themselves for the failure that might come down the road. I have not forgotten what it looks like, even after the seven year probation period we had with no NCAA wins.
I can't speak for others, but I'm not "preparing" myself for anything. I think I'm just being realistic.
I always want to make the NCAAT and win at least a couple games there. And maybe this team can at least accomplish the first part of that. But I will not consider this season to have been a failure if we don't make the tournament. Here in Year 1 of a brand-new program, I want to see improvement as a team, improvement from individual players, a culture being built, and high-quality recruits/transfers coming aboard. Everything else is gravy.
A team can improve even if it doesn't win for whatever reason (injuries, bad luck, opponents are simply better, etc). We didn't beat UCLA -- didn't come close, really, despite the final score -- but IMHO we improved significantly over the course of the game. I happen to think that's important. This season, as long as Shaka has his group improving and playing hard, the results are secondary to me. In future seasons, I will expect more.
I acknowledge that's just me. If we happen to not make the NCAAT this season, and you're first in line to get down on Shaka because of that, that's cool for you. I personally don't think that's realistic or fair, but you don't have to give a rat's rump about what I think.
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Well, let's say that this particular team would have a better chance of winning more Big East games this season if it played a different offensive system, one that didn't involve early 3s being taken by a team that lacks 3-point shooters. But he truly believes this is the system that, long-term, will suit the Marquette program well.
Or let's say that he might think that benching the PG who can't shoot and who is starting to throw the ball all over the place might help him win a game, but he doesn't want to destroy the kid's confidence for the future.
Those kinds of things ... but I do agree it's a fine line.
I truly think if Shaka was asked, off the record and just shooting the shyte, he would say, "Hell yes, of course I want to win this year, but it's really about next year and the year after that." But maybe not.
Some questions:
How does does installing a system that doesn't suit his roster this year make things better next year or the year after that? Won't the future players who do fit the system still have to get on to campus and learn it? It's not like they'll absorb it through osmosis once it's been established.
Why would he knowingly recruit players - Justin and Greg are the only two he didn't, really - to play in a system that doesn't fit their skills? If you're building an offense predicated on three-point shooting, for example, why not recruit more three-point shooters? Why not just go get kids that fit the system right away instead of installing a system with a roster that doesn't fit it and then go get players who do fit?
I agree with the idea that Shaka is trying to install a system and a culture. But I very much disagree with the idea that this year is necessarily (and by choice) a sacrificial lamb on the altar to long-term success.
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Pakuni
A lot of these guys are not going to be here in 2-3 years and that is life. Winning and playing in March is going to attract system players. Add an excited style of play and system players will be here shortly.
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Some questions:
How does does installing a system that doesn't suit his roster this year make things better next year or the year after that? Won't the future players who do fit the system still have to get on to campus and learn it? It's not like they'll absorb it through osmosis once it's been established.
Why would he knowingly recruit players - Justin and Greg are the only two he didn't, really - to play in a system that doesn't fit their skills? If you're building an offense predicated on three-point shooting, for example, why not recruit more three-point shooters? Why not just go get kids that fit the system right away instead of installing a system with a roster that doesn't fit it and then go get players who do fit?
I agree with the idea that Shaka is trying to install a system and a culture. But I very much disagree with the idea that this year is necessarily (and by choice) a sacrificial lamb on the altar to long-term success.
Some of those are good questions. I wish you could ask them to Shaka.
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82
First, I do respect much of your opinions and knowledge of the basketball program. Aside from you stirring the pot and playing both sides of the aisle, there is no doubt you can hold your own in any basketball conversation. So, I hold your basketball views in higher regard than many on here.
As for my keeping my expectations of the program this year and beyond, of course there are circumstances out of Shaka’s control and that is a different topic. If they play their ass off and get the most out of the BE schedule and fall short, I would accept that. If they step on their Johnson and meet the expectations (seems like most think 7-9 wins) I would say the winning part of the season was a failure.
I’m not a complete nut and fully understand the limitations of the squad. I also have watched enough basketball to know this team to be competitive with a lot of teams. I said three weeks ago that I was counting on Shaka being responsible for extra wins this season and by my math he needs to get 3-4 more.
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82
First, I do respect much of your opinions and knowledge of the basketball program. Aside from you stirring the pot and playing both sides of the aisle, there is no doubt you can hold your own in any basketball conversation. So, I hold your basketball views in higher regard than many on here.
As for my keeping my expectations of the program this year and beyond, of course there are circumstances out of Shaka’s control and that is a different topic. If they play their ass off and get the most out of the BE schedule and fall short, I would accept that. If they step on their Johnson and meet the expectations (seems like most think 7-9 wins) I would say the winning part of the season was a failure.
I’m not a complete nut and fully understand the limitations of the squad. I also have watched enough basketball to know this team to be competitive with a lot of teams. I said three weeks ago that I was counting on Shaka being responsible for extra wins this season and by my math he needs to get 3-4 more.
Fair enough about all that, and thanks for the (mostly) kind words.
As I've said a few times, I hope you're right with your predictions!
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If you're building an offense predicated on three-point shooting, for example, why not recruit more three-point shooters? Why not just go get kids that fit the system right away instead of installing a system with a roster that doesn't fit it and then go get players who do fit?
Seems to me that every offensive “system” I watch is predicated on 3s or dunks/layups - the only exceptions are when a coach finds that very rare player with an efficient enough mid range game that makes taking tough 2 point shots logical. Kolek is good at the drive and kick or dish (fits Shaka’s system). Kuath and Oso have pretty decent hands and are OK finishers (fit Shaka’s system). Greg and Kam are good catch and shoot guys (fit Shaka’s system). Lewis is a throw back player ideally suited for the mid range game - he doesn’t fit Shaka’s system offensively or defensively - but he’s our best player, so…same with Morsell (offensively, anyway), but he had a pedigree defensively and the look of a leader that a young team needed, so…OMP, Stevie, Ellis? TBD
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Lots and lots of TBD, Lenny, and that’s OK.
I’d have been stunned if there weren’t.
Shaka’s doing a great job.
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Seems to me that every offensive “system” I watch is predicated on 3s or dunks/layups - the only exceptions are when a coach finds that very rare player with an efficient enough mid range game that makes taking tough 2 point shots logical. Kolek is good at the drive and kick or dish (fits Shaka’s system). Kuath and Oso have pretty decent hands and are OK finishers (fit Shaka’s system). Greg and Kam are good catch and shoot guys (fit Shaka’s system). Lewis is a throw back player ideally suited for the mid range game - he doesn’t fit Shaka’s system offensively or defensively - but he’s our best player, so…same with Morsell (offensively, anyway), but he had a pedigree defensively and the look of a leader that a young team needed, so…OMP, Stevie, Ellis? TBD
This. What team isn't going to focus on making threes at this point? However I don't think a coach needs to field an entire roster that adheres perfectly to his system. This team is going to go through growing pains. I'm very happy with what I have seen from Shaka in a small sample size and have plenty of hope his identity as a coach will take shape quickly at MU.
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This. What team isn't going to focus on making threes at this point? However I don't think a coach needs to field an entire roster that adheres perfectly to his system. This team is going to go through growing pains. I'm very happy with what I have seen from Shaka in a small sample size and have plenty of hope his identity as a coach will take shape quickly at MU.
Among teams in the bottom half of percentage of attempts from three...
- Arizona
- Syracuse
- Iona
- Baylor
- Minnesota
- Gonzaga
- Florida State
- St. John's
- Iowa State
- Virginia
- Michigan
- Duke
- Creighton
- Kansas
- Michigan State
- West Virginia
- Arkansas
- USC
- Kentucky
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Among teams in the bottom half of percentage of attempts from three...
- Arizona
- Syracuse
- Iona
- Baylor
- Minnesota
- Gonzaga
- Florida State
- St. John's
- Iowa State
- Virginia
- Michigan
- Duke
- Creighton
- Kansas
- Michigan State
- West Virginia
- Arkansas
- USC
- Kentucky
Interesting list, brew. The one that really jumps out at me is Creighton because they always seem like such a 3-happy team.
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Among teams in the bottom half of percentage of attempts from three...
- Arizona
- Syracuse
- Iona
- Baylor
- Minnesota
- Gonzaga
- Florida State
- St. John's
- Iowa State
- Virginia
- Michigan
- Duke
- Creighton
- Kansas
- Michigan State
- West Virginia
- Arkansas
- USC
- Kentucky
Five potential F4 teams on this list.
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Interesting list, brew. The one that really jumps out at me is Creighton because they always seem like such a 3-happy team.
It's a smart adjustment for this year by McDermott. They are 10th in the nation in 2PFG% but only 237th in 3PFG%. They have 4 players who are hitting 60% or better from two. I expect they'll get back to more three-point shooting next year as two of those guys are seniors, though with COVID it might be hard to say.
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Some questions:
How does does installing a system that doesn't suit his roster this year make things better next year or the year after that? Won't the future players who do fit the system still have to get on to campus and learn it? It's not like they'll absorb it through osmosis once it's been established.
Why would he knowingly recruit players - Justin and Greg are the only two he didn't, really - to play in a system that doesn't fit their skills? If you're building an offense predicated on three-point shooting, for example, why not recruit more three-point shooters? Why not just go get kids that fit the system right away instead of installing a system with a roster that doesn't fit it and then go get players who do fit?
I agree with the idea that Shaka is trying to install a system and a culture. But I very much disagree with the idea that this year is necessarily (and by choice) a sacrificial lamb on the altar to long-term success.
As a first-year coach, his window to recruit players for this season was shorter than what it will be going forward. Of course, free transfers help. And, one might argue that he is changing his system, if not the play, then the recruitment (as he is likely to have less pressure to consistently bring in 5 star recruits who may not buy in so well).
The fact that a few players that he recruited for Texas have ended up here indicates that he is recruiting for his system, or at least his coaching style. The fact that the players have a learning curve (both of knowledge and skills) indicates that learning a system is always a process. Just as building a culture is.
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As a first-year coach, his window to recruit players for this season was shorter than what it will be going forward. Of course, free transfers help. And, one might argue that he is changing his system, if not the play, then the recruitment (as he is likely to have less pressure to consistently bring in 5 star recruits who may not buy in so well).
The fact that a few players that he recruited for Texas have ended up here indicates that he is recruiting for his system, or at least his coaching style. The fact that the players have a learning curve (both of knowledge and skills) indicates that learning a system is always a process. Just as building a culture is.
Aren't his recruits for next year no better than 3 star guys so far?
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Aren't his recruits for next year no better than 3 star guys so far?
I think that part of his system is to not necessarily recruit guys that are going to star as freshmen. With the team this year, he has the need/opportunity for young guys to get playing time and, hopefully, move along well. Next year's three star freshmen shouldn't necessarily be better than this year's youngsters.
Of course, as discussed in other threads, Shaka won't turn down (or not recruit) a 4 or 5 star player that he feels fits the attitudes and skills he wants in his system.
My hope is that the foundation he is building will mean that we don't need to rely on freshmen to keep us competitive.
Then again, all that might be hogwash, since I've never spoken to Shaka about this (or any other thing).
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Went through the 1988 Hilltopper last night . Nice graduation picture, Mug.
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Went through the 1988 Hilltopper last night . Nice graduation picture, Mug.
Ha. Just ha.
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It's a smart adjustment for this year by McDermott. They are 10th in the nation in 2PFG% but only 237th in 3PFG%. They have 4 players who are hitting 60% or better from two. I expect they'll get back to more three-point shooting next year as two of those guys are seniors, though with COVID it might be hard to say.
Creighton had a horrible night shooting 3s against ASU and lost at home, I guess they should have stuck with their earlier posture of taking more 2s
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sZYnWctRrA
Inside basketball interview with TK.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sZYnWctRrA
Inside basketball interview with TK.
I've enjoyed all of these, including this one. It's nice to get to "know" our players.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sZYnWctRrA
Inside basketball interview with TK.
Excellent interview. Thanks for sharing.
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The scouting report is out on Kolek in the Big East in a big way. He needs to adjust or this team is in some big trouble. Absolutely taken out of the game the last two games.
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The scouting report is out on Kolek in the Big East in a big way. He needs to adjust or this team is in some big trouble. Absolutely taken out of the game the last two games.
He has two points in last game and a half.
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The scouting report is out on Kolek in the Big East in a big way. He needs to adjust or this team is in some big trouble. Absolutely taken out of the game the last two games.
Butler evidently lost the scouting report at halftime.
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Butler evidently lost the scouting report at halftime.
I think everyone in the league will live with a 26% three point shooter hoisting them up. Guessing that was actually continuing to follow the scouting report. Glad he made a couple to make it a respectable losing margin.
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Bad shooters for Butler had good games, too. Can't not shoot open looks.
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The scouting report is…don’t switch when he drives. And it is largely working. We aren’t getting the easy looks at the rim like we were early.
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The scouting report is out on Kolek in the Big East in a big way. He needs to adjust or this team is in some big trouble. Absolutely taken out of the game the last two games.
Just so I have this right. The “scouting report” on Kolek was just released last Tuesday and due to that we’re in “some big trouble”. Fortunately it wasn’t released until we had beaten Villanova twice, Seton Hall twice, Xavier and Providence and reached #18 in the Polls.
How big do you think the big trouble is? Will we collapse down the stretch like recent Marquette teams?
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The scouting report is…don’t switch when he drives. And it is largely working. We aren’t getting the easy looks at the rim like we were early.
Exactly. The scouting report is now out.
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Exactly. The scouting report is now out.
Just recently.
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Just recently.
No it has been out awhile. They have overcome it at times. Like Morsell v Nova. But his effectiveness has dropped because opposing coaches know he’s the key to the offense.
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No it has been out awhile. They have overcome it at times. Like Morsell v Nova. But his effectiveness has dropped because opposing coaches know he’s the key to the offense.
*Sarcasm
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*Sarcasm
Ok sorry. Sometimes I can’t tell around here.
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Ok sorry. Sometimes I can’t tell around here.
That's fair.
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Kolek is the second most efficient offensive player on our team over the last 4 games.
Morsell and Kur have been the least efficient starters.
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Stevie is going to have to step up big time. Teams are making him be a scorer. Until he can do it consistently, teams will keep their big plastered to the screener and make Kolek do anything besides collapse the defense.