Grambling thoughts

[mug644]

I read that at the time and had been in contact with Greska regarding the article and questions before he sat down with Broeker. I left one message prior to the article coming out and two since. None have been returned.

Brewcity, I ask these questions sincerely: What further explanation or action do you expect? Did you feel that Greska posed questions that reflected your concerns? (Should his questions have done so?) Did Broeker not answer questions? Do you simply not like his answers? Do you want money back? Can you realistically hope for some assurances that such scheduling will not happen in the future?

I think your frustration and disappointment in having purchased a product that is proving to be less than satisfactory is reasonable, but I'm not sure your reaction and expectations for retribution, if indeed you have any, are reasonable. If you don't have any expectations for retribution, then it seems you've spoken your piece and it may be time to move on.

As others have mentioned, this season seems a good one to attend the crappy buy-in games viewing them as an opportunity to watch a young but very talented team grow and find its way.

[GGGG]

It is important to Play Heldt and Sacar, because if they do not get some time they are likely to transfer.

Any coach that plays players simply because they may transfer otherwise won't be a very effective head coach. And players who transfer because they aren't seeing regular playing time in their freshman year are free to leave.

[warriorchick]

And chick, I know you're being tongue in cheek, but I'm not calling for the heads of Broeker, Scholl, or Wojo, I'd just like it if they would address the poor scheduling. In the past, when I voiced concerns about numerous issues, I have received prompt replies and even had people at Marquette reach out to me about concerns that I voiced on boards like this. I don't think it's too much to ask that someone over there return a phone call rather than ignoring a loyal, paying customer and alum.

My comment wasn't pointing at you specifically.  It just amuses me how so many people on this board are fond of pointing out the failings of MU (and more specifically the athletic department) as if the greatest  problem of all is that no one asked them to do the job. 

It's so easy to second guess other people's decisions, especially when you have the benefit of hindsight and you aren't aware of all the factors that had to go into the original decision.

[Cooby Snacks]

My comment wasn't pointing at you specifically.  It just amuses me how so many people on this board are fond of pointing out the failings of MU (and more specifically the athletic department) as if the greatest  problem of all is that no one asked them to do the job. 

It's so easy to second guess other people's decisions, especially when you have the benefit of hindsight and you aren't aware of all the factors that had to go into the original decision.

There's a name for it!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

[Coleman]

For anyone complaining about the quality of the opponent:

In all likelihood, we have only 13 more home games of Henry Ellenson. Think about that when deciding whether it is worth going.

[Marquette_g]

I don't believe we should force playing Matt or Sacar, but to say "they are free to leave" as though we shouldn't care is something I disagree with.  Certainly they are free to do as they please, but the constant transfers are part of the reason we are young (this year) or thin (last year) - and those are not isolated instances.  Some transfers are going to happen, but I'd much prefer the stability that comes with players growing in the system.

[GGGG]

I don't believe we should force playing Matt or Sacar, but to say "they are free to leave" as though we shouldn't care is something I disagree with.  Certainly they are free to do as they please, but the constant transfers are part of the reason we are young (this year) or thin (last year) - and those are not isolated instances.  Some transfers are going to happen, but I'd much prefer the stability that comes with players growing in the system.

Oh I agree with that.  I just think a player who thinks "they aren't playing me just a few games into my freshman year, therefore I am going to transfer," probably isn't cut out for D1 basketball to begin with.

Look at JJJ.  We had people claiming "mind games," and predicting he would leave....and...well he didn't.  He worked hard and made himself a valuable player who is quite deserving of the minutes he is getting.  He didn't take the easy way out.  I hope that Sacar and Matt are more like that.

[mujivitz06]

I completely understand your frustration. If they release a similarly poor schedule next year then I'll probably consider taking a couple years off as a season ticket holder.

That said, it's just really nice to see some damn wins. It's been a tough two years and I'll enjoy each of our 8 (hopefully) non-conference home wins.

Don't you realize that would serve to hurt the program more than it would help?

If you aren't loyal to the program in thick or thin you aren't a good fan IMO.

[connie]

Well this quickly broke into about 4 separate topics.

I don't think we can over emphasise that Grambling is not a good team.  Still, I am glad that we played the way we did.  I do think that with a young team you need to have some games like this. Any longer term playing time or performance evaluations have to understand that this game was essentially a uniformed practice.   

And you can say what you want, but I don't want to pay in either money or time to watch a bunch of practices. I understand the scheduling dynamics, but am not going to criticize anyone that thinks they aren't getting their money's worth with this years' opponents.

[MU82]

Any coach that plays players simply because they may transfer otherwise won't be a very effective head coach. And players who transfer because they aren't seeing regular playing time in their freshman year are free to leave.

Completely agree.

You don't want to earn it -- or wait your turn, if necessary -- there's the door.

[bilsu]

So what you're saying is that we should only play top 15 teams and we should make sure all (however many scholarship players we have) players get playing time so as to make everyone happy?

Banners for each player to hang in their dorm rooms, too, hey?

Not really. What I am feeling is that MUscoopers and maybe the team are going to go into the UW game with a false sense of accomplishment. I do think the schedule we have is good for the team (it could be somewhat tougher) to learn as long as we remember it does not mean we are a good team. Usually, the Kohl Center is a hard place to play. Even though the Badgers have lost there this year, it is going to be a tough game.

[bilsu]

Any coach that plays players simply because they may transfer otherwise won't be a very effective head coach. And players who transfer because they aren't seeing regular playing time in their freshman year are free to leave.

We are talking about a game that was a total blowout. I really am not worried about Heldt transferring. I think he knew he was not going to play a lot this year. I also think Wojo should of redshirted him. I do not know how Anim feels about not playing. I certainly would not play him in a close game, if I did not think he would help the team.

[bilsu]

For anyone complaining about the quality of the opponent:

In all likelihood, we have only 13 more home games of Henry Ellenson. Think about that when deciding whether it is worth going.

He looks just as good on TV. I think the games being on TV are what is hurting attendance the most.

[NotAnAlum]

I left the game thinking we are getting experience by playing horrible teams, while Wisconsin, who is almost as young as us, is getting real experience playing at Oklahoma and Syracuse. The MU/UW game is not going to end well for us.

A couple things you need to factor into this.  Wis is coming 2 years of Back to Back Final Four appearances.  Like it or not they are much more likely to get a return call on a scheduling request than a team with 2 tournament misses and a losing record.  2nd the players that Wisconsin returns have a ton of experience winning.  There isn't a person on this MU team that has a winning season.  Beyond that look what happened when both of these teams scheduled a "good" mid major.  They got beat at home in both cases.  I think Wojo and staff should be forgiven settling for a weak schedule this year.  Next year is a different story but this year cut them some slack. 

[bilsu]

The problem is not that we played Grambling St. The problem is that we are playing 6 or 7 other teams almost as bad as Grambling St.

[brewcity77]

Brewcity, I ask these questions sincerely: What further explanation or action do you expect? Did you feel that Greska posed questions that reflected your concerns? (Should his questions have done so?) Did Broeker not answer questions? Do you simply not like his answers? Do you want money back? Can you realistically hope for some assurances that such scheduling will not happen in the future?

In order...

I'd like the opportunity to express my concerns personally. On three occasions I was assured my call would be returned. I specifically told the people in the ticket office and athletic department secretaries that I knew they did not have control over the scheduling and that I desired to speak to someone who did so I could have my concerns directly heard and addressed. As a season ticket holder, booster, and alum, I do feel that Marquette should be willing to address me (and anyone else) about those concerns, especially as it is people like us that give them the funding to schedule these games in the first place.

I do feel Greska asked many of my questions. As I stated above, we were corresponding prior to the interview and Andrei knew my concerns going in. Some he asked, some he did not, but I do feel he did a nice job and asked what needed to be asked.

As far as Broeker's answers, I felt a lot of them were either stock answers or somewhat evasive. He commented on the difficulty of predicting teams years out, but these aren't teams that were just bad in 2015. Presbyterian has been sub-300 three straight years. Grambling has been sub-300 five straight years. Chicago State has been sub-300 four of the past five years. Stetson has been sub-250 four of the past five years. Maine, Jackson State, and San Jose State have been sub-250 four straight years. These aren't teams that are newly bad, they have a history of being bad. And yes, we share an arena, but Georgetown and St. John's share arenas as well, both of them managed 8 home dates with only 2 projected sub-300 teams. Further, saying that it's hard to predict teams that far out kind of flies in the face of the comment that it's also hard to schedule teams coming off a 13-win season. First, we have a long history of being good, but either you are scheduling in advance and can rely on our (as well as others') history, or you are scheduling short-term and you know what these teams did last year. It's contradictory.

I don't expect money back, but I would like some assurances that in the future I will get better value for my dollar. I love Marquette basketball, I love supporting it, but when they schedule 20 home dates and 40% of those are Marquette choosing to schedule bad opposition, it's disappointing. Again, this can be fixed by Marquette reaching back out to me when I attempt to contact them. Pick up the phone, send an email, whatever. Even if it's to tell me to stuff it, I'd prefer that than to feel like my concerns are simply going without acknowledgment.

Can I reasonably expect such assurances? I believe the answer is yes. If someone at Marquette was willing to take 5-10 minutes to call and say they understand my concerns, we did this for X, Y, and Z, and in the future we intend to do better, I would be willing to put my faith in that. I've had interactions with Mike Broeker, Joe True, and others associated with Marquette Athletics in the past and feel they have been fair and honest. If they are willing to say "hey, we know these opponents suck, but it's a one-off, we plan to do better in the future", it would go a long way toward assuaging my issues with this schedule.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The problem is not that we played Grambling St. The problem is that we are playing 6 or 7 other teams almost as bad as Grambling St.

I don't know that any team is "almost as bad as Grambling State" lol

[brewcity77]

I don't know that any team is "almost as bad as Grambling State" lol

They are a special breed of bad (which begs the question why they've been on the schedule three of the past seven years) but I definitely agree with bilsu that this is an excessively high number of very bad teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Brew, I hate to tell you, but I've worked with college athletics at four different universities, and I don't think a single one of them would return your call....and one of them competes at the D2 level. They might return it, but it wouldn't be a call from someone who actually has control or input to the scheduling. You have to be donating pretty big sums of money or be from the media to get that kind of access. And even then, you aren't going to get any more than what Broeker said in the PT article.

[mug644]

In order...

I'd like the opportunity to express my concerns personally. On three occasions I was assured my call would be returned. I specifically told the people in the ticket office and athletic department secretaries that I knew they did not have control over the scheduling and that I desired to speak to someone who did so I could have my concerns directly heard and addressed. As a season ticket holder, booster, and alum, I do feel that Marquette should be willing to address me (and anyone else) about those concerns, especially as it is people like us that give them the funding to schedule these games in the first place.

I do feel Greska asked many of my questions. As I stated above, we were corresponding prior to the interview and Andrei knew my concerns going in. Some he asked, some he did not, but I do feel he did a nice job and asked what needed to be asked.

As far as Broeker's answers, I felt a lot of them were either stock answers or somewhat evasive. He commented on the difficulty of predicting teams years out, but these aren't teams that were just bad in 2015. Presbyterian has been sub-300 three straight years. Grambling has been sub-300 five straight years. Chicago State has been sub-300 four of the past five years. Stetson has been sub-250 four of the past five years. Maine, Jackson State, and San Jose State have been sub-250 four straight years. These aren't teams that are newly bad, they have a history of being bad. And yes, we share an arena, but Georgetown and St. John's share arenas as well, both of them managed 8 home dates with only 2 projected sub-300 teams. Further, saying that it's hard to predict teams that far out kind of flies in the face of the comment that it's also hard to schedule teams coming off a 13-win season. First, we have a long history of being good, but either you are scheduling in advance and can rely on our (as well as others') history, or you are scheduling short-term and you know what these teams did last year. It's contradictory.

I don't expect money back, but I would like some assurances that in the future I will get better value for my dollar. I love Marquette basketball, I love supporting it, but when they schedule 20 home dates and 40% of those are Marquette choosing to schedule bad opposition, it's disappointing. Again, this can be fixed by Marquette reaching back out to me when I attempt to contact them. Pick up the phone, send an email, whatever. Even if it's to tell me to stuff it, I'd prefer that than to feel like my concerns are simply going without acknowledgment.

Can I reasonably expect such assurances? I believe the answer is yes. If someone at Marquette was willing to take 5-10 minutes to call and say they understand my concerns, we did this for X, Y, and Z, and in the future we intend to do better, I would be willing to put my faith in that. I've had interactions with Mike Broeker, Joe True, and others associated with Marquette Athletics in the past and feel they have been fair and honest. If they are willing to say "hey, we know these opponents suck, but it's a one-off, we plan to do better in the future", it would go a long way toward assuaging my issues with this schedule.

Good, and comprehensive explanations. I can't disagree with your thoughts, but do feel that it is unrealistic to expect that the athletic department--no, someone who does have control over scheduling, which means it would need to be 1 of, maybe 2 or 3 people--to give you a personal call. I think that Broeker, by having the interview with Andrei realized that there were plenty of disapproving people, and was willing to reach out in a way that was efficient for the department. I think the issue is not that you haven't heard the reasons, it's that you don't accept them, and you feel justified in harping on it, because you think they could've done and should do better.

Which gets to the word I bolded and italicized above...better: Doing better in the future can mean different things to different people. Indeed, there are plenty of people who feel that the weak schedule this year is better for the development of the team. There are people who think better could mean the 'draw' of the opponent should be stronger, though that could mean more losses for the team. I imagine, too, that someone is concerned about the potential impact on future season ticket sales, and so has yet another perspective. Better to one person may not be better to another.

Anyway, it's not a situation we can solve, and no doubt the athletic department is well aware of the many points of view. Time to let it go.

[Litehouse]

Regarding Heldt, I think the fact he isn't quite ready is the main reason we should see him more in these games.  Our success this season will depend on Luke staying healthy, so Wojo should sit Luke once the game is in hand and let Heldt get some more PT.  Luke sat the last 10 min. or so last night after we were already up about 30, but he played to the end of the Jackson State game, which made me nervous.

[BM1090]

Don't you realize that would serve to hurt the program more than it would help?

If you aren't loyal to the program in thick or thin you aren't a good fan IMO.

I've been a season ticket holder for 10 years since I was 16 years old. I haven't missed a home game in that time frame. I have been "loyal to the program". I just want to see a better product.

Also, all I said was that I would consider not renewing my tickets. I'm sure I will be a season ticket holder until the day that I no longer live in Wisconsin.

[brewcity77]

Good, and comprehensive explanations. I can't disagree with your thoughts, but do feel that it is unrealistic to expect that the athletic department--no, someone who does have control over scheduling, which means it would need to be 1 of, maybe 2 or 3 people--to give you a personal call. I think that Broeker, by having the interview with Andrei realized that there were plenty of disapproving people, and was willing to reach out in a way that was efficient for the department. I think the issue is not that you haven't heard the reasons, it's that you don't accept them, and you feel justified in harping on it, because you think they could've done and should do better.

Which gets to the word I bolded and italicized above...better: Doing better in the future can mean different things to different people. Indeed, there are plenty of people who feel that the weak schedule this year is better for the development of the team. There are people who think better could mean the 'draw' of the opponent should be stronger, though that could mean more losses for the team. I imagine, too, that someone is concerned about the potential impact on future season ticket salea, and so has yet another perspective. Better to one person may not be better to another.

Anyway, it's not a situation we can solve, and no doubt the athletic department is well aware of the many points of view. Time to let it go.

Much of this is based on my past interactions. I've received those calls in the past as well as emails regarding various topics, and did receive them from the people at or near the top. I sent another email today to both Broeker and Scholl and did receive a response. I had other questions that I spoke with Andrei about that I hoped to get answers to. As far as Greska's interview, he had that planned before the schedule was released (as I recall the interview was actually delayed, which gave Greska more time to prepare schedule-related questions).

Maybe it's rare that I've received responses in the past, but considering a portion of my STH fees go to schedule these games, I think it's fair to be able to have an open dialogue with the department. I've definitely made my thoughts clear here and don't plan to continue griping in this forum, but the title of the thread is "Grambling thoughts", and these were the bulk of my thoughts last night during and immediately after the game. When it was (I think) 26-2, my wife turned to me and said "I can't believe you actually wanted to come to this." At that point, all I could think was "I have five more games of this nature, how on earth will I get anyone to come to those?"

I truly apologize for venting a bit on here, but it bubbled up a bit last night. At the end of the day, I hope this does help the team and that the improved ability to block shots and hit threes in the past week translates when it comes to conference play.

[brewcity77]

Brew, I hate to tell you, but I've worked with college athletics at four different universities, and I don't think a single one of them would return your call....and one of them competes at the D2 level. They might return it, but it wouldn't be a call from someone who actually has control or input to the scheduling. You have to be donating pretty big sums of money or be from the media to get that kind of access. And even then, you aren't going to get any more than what Broeker said in the PT article.

As I mentioned above, I've received those calls and emails before. Maybe Marquette operates differently, maybe those occurrences were anomalies, but I've never felt like I was banging my head against the wall looking for a response before like I have since the schedule was fully released.

[The Lens]

Agree will Bilsu, it's the sheer number of sub 250 games.

If anyone wants my Maine tix, just PM me.  I would love to get them to a good home.